broken-minded-love - Tumblr blog

broken-minded-love · 3 years

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[.... I invited you to carry any additional concerns over to me in private and you instead choose to tag me in these responses....] @sad-sweet-cowboah I know many do, but I don’t talk out of school. The minute things go to DM it becomes a litany of “he said/she said” and I’m not about that. Like I said, this isn’t my fight. I’ve just been trying to be a voice for the concerns that come from the attacks and callouts in a way that’s not turning this into a catfight. [.... It truly feels like you’re trying to pry out answers even though I provided another outlet of communication to you...] So I can’t make a public post asking for explanation, but I can ask for one privately? Now that does sound shady. I’m not trying to “pry out” anything. If you’d have simply responded to this post (when I made it 4 days ago) as you had been we wouldn’t have had to have the back and forth that went nowhere, turning this post into a monster like the other. [... I think it would be worse on my part if I didn’t acknowledge her in all of this, especially since you tag her in every response..] I tag her because it involves her. If she’s unhappy with that she’s more than welcome to tell me to stop but since she’s said nothing so far I’ll continue to do so. [...I distinctly remember crediting h-o-g-o at one point long before the 2019 drama, but I’m having difficulty finding it. ...] Likewise. I’ve searched your blog for a reference to HOGO prior to the 2019 drama. Can’t find one. You must see that people are having to afford you a lot of good faith here? And despite being tagged here a couple of times there’s been no confirmation from HOGO about whether or not she recalls being credited either. But it’s a bit late for that now, as I said before, I know how fandoms work in these situations. [... I purposely set reader’s age as ambiguous to help people better immerse themselves in the story. Doesn’t seem like a big similarity here...] This is a bit of a reach. The reader is clearly a young adult based on living alone and being a job that can afford them roof over their head. Also, isn’t it a bit of an odd choice to set an ambiguous age, but still give the reader such a specific pet, with such specific choices of names?* [... 2, 5, and 6. The majority of this was inspiration following reading h-o-g-o’s pieces....] Again, it’s not about the initial inspiration, because it can neither be proven or disproven, it’s about the extremely similar content of your opening chapter to your modern reader/video game Arthur series, and the first few chapters of Wish Upon. [... Tabby cats are extremely common so this also doesn’t seem like a huge deal. ..] It’s not a huge deal on it’s own, but when paired with the list of other similarities it becomes a big deal and implies you could have read Wish Upon one week, forgotten the details, written your own story, and inadvertently copied. Which is all I’ve ever suggested could have happened. I didn’t come here to point fingers and try to prove anything, but it’s almost impossible to insure that ideas you’ve read don’t become ideas you write yourself. ESPECIALLY when you’re writing a plot that is so similar. Do you see what I’m saying and where the concern over this lies? I don’t see how you can move forward from this and let it die while still working with the same plotline. Side Note: Looking back on this, I now find it even more confusing that you’re writing a reader fic, but take steps to include such a specific pet and choose to name them and the horse the reader chose for Arthur. You might like mythological names, but the reader might hate them, right? My concept of a reader fic is that those kind of details should be left out to allow the reader to put their own choices in. So again, an odd choice to include that in the grand scheme of things, is it not?* [.... And since I’m rewriting it, this should be left to the wayside....] No, it absolutely shouldn’t. It could have easily been of course, but then further similarities appeared and caused us all to rehash what was written in 2019. And frankly, it seemed obvious that since you were rewriting the original piece that was a commission and rushed to cover all these elements of modern life, that you planned to continue with them along the same vein through your rewrites. [... 9, again, was established in the very first writing for my series and I still wanted to keep that element. ...] Yes but it was simply established that Arthur was the Arthur from the readers game in the first version. The “your/her/my Arthur” angle was not as clear a thing in the original. 2019: ‘You’d realized with a jolt that he was just as you designed him in your personal game.’ 2021: ‘This was your Arthur. In the flesh.’ Surely you can see the differences here?* And how it’s clearly changed to sync up with developments in Wish Upon. It’s an element that wasn’t present in HOGO’s stories too but has been very prominently used in Wish Upon. You can see how that looks, no? [.... The storm, as I’ve mentioned multiple times already, was a plot ...] Again, I completely understand it’s a plot device BUT I’m raising the issue that the setting and set up is practically identical to the opening chapters of Wish Upon and that’s where the drama around all this has stemmed from. Yet you seem completely unable to admit there are any similarities whatsoever and simply give repeated excuses and explanations for them instead. [... The intruder assumption, as I’ve said, ....] Again, explaining why it’s different, justifying why you used it, but again not acknowledging that it’s basically exactly the same setting/set up as Wish Upon. [... I don’t understand why the pinch needs to be noted when we are all familiar with the phrase “pinch me, I must be dreaming!” // mentioning touching as a confirmation of reality seems a bit of a stretch ....] Because again, you explain, you justify, you excuse, but continue to not acknowledge that it’s literally the same events as in the story that existed in the public domain for two weeks before you wrote this. [... I’ve already explained my reasoning for the use of the horse...] And again, explanations, but no acknowledgement of the similarities that most everyone else can see. It’s not the how and the why, it’s about how you’re expressing your version of the same idea and continually hitting on the same plot devices. [...since my story would be influenced by quarantine, working from home is another minor detail that will be overshadowed by otherwise major events...] Yes, but here’s the thing. Wish Upon’s dynamic is based on Allie and Arthur being alone for the majority of the story. She doesn’t have to go out to work and can spend most of her time helping him adjust. The two of them alone together constantly is going to create an intense dynamic, which it seems (hopefully @miss-oscurita can confirm) will be used to enhance Allie and Arthur’s conflicted feelings about their relationship moving to the next level. By putting your reader in a position where she doesn’t need to go out to work it’s mirroring exactly the same dynamic in Wish Upon and paired up with all the other similarities it really looks like you’re just trying to tell the same story in a different tone of voice. Do you see that? How is your story going to have a different dynamic when again it’s the same setting?* [...Arthur viewed the now C0V*D infected world. It’s obvious which one won that round. Since Wish Upon contains many chapters of Arthur experiencing the normal world, this would set it apart from that...] I’ll be interested to see how, because personally I think you’ve written yourself into a corner. [.... I never truly read through it and only went off the summary miss-oscurita provided to me back in 2019....] You seem to know a lot about it and be able to draw from knowledge very well for someone who hasn’t read it fully. It’s ultimately a rock and a hard place. If you don’t read it you stand the chance to inadvertently walking into including similarities you could have avoided. If you do read it then you stand a chance of accidentally having your organic ideas being influenced by what you read in Wish Upon. Which is again why I’m struggling to see how you’re going to manage to cover this plot line but avoid the drama reoccurring. Sounds like a hell of a task to me. [...Following this rewrite I skimmed through the first few chapters to make sure the overall dynamic was different enough...] And yet the dynamic is essentially still the same, as is the setting?* If that happens when you’re trying to avoid it, what happens when you’re not? The fact seems that you’ve read through something, allegedly trying not to be influenced by it, but have ended up putting in more similarities. What’s most concerning to me that you’re running a writing blog for the RDR fandom where people send you their drafts and ideas to read through and advise on. How can you believe and assure anyone that you’re not going to do the same with those ideas/drafts as you have here with Wish Upon? How does anyone know you’re not going to read a draft some fandom newbie sends you, and then a few weeks later include some of their ideas in your own work?* Since you seem unable to avoid doing that when you’re trying to avoid it, it difficult to believe this kind of thing wouldn’t happen again down the line somewhere. I’m not accusing you, or pointing fingers, I’m saying this as a fellow writer. I know its next to impossible to keep the ideas you read apart from the ideas you create, especially when you’re writing a story that has such a similar plot line and character dynamic. [... The writing blog however is rarely ever utilized. If it were completely active it would be a different story, but since it hasn’t had any activity in at least a year, I’m just going to shut it down at some point anyway...] That’s not strictly true though, is it? Both the blog and the discord had activity as recently as the end of October. And of course it’s going to be shut down now that concerns have been raised about it. [... There are certain elements I intend to keep and I plan on discussing them in private to further ease this...] With whom? @miss-oscurita I assume?* [...I know you’re going to try and pick apart my responses as usual...] I’m not picking apart your responses, I’m just puzzled by the fact you can give me a hundred different excuses for the questions raised by all this, but still can’t admit to the fact there are similarities, or explain how you’re going to avoid adding more while still writing the same plotline. There’s dozens of excuses as to why these similarities exist, explaining it all away, but no admittance to how samey things appear and no assurances this won’t happen again, either unintentionally or deliberately! As I’ve said before, all these similarities individually mean nothing. They’re simply tropes/plot devices that anyone can use, which is what you keep explaining. The issue here is that so many of the same tropes and plot devices in the one piece of work that match up to another piece of work with the same plotline causes it to appear copied. If you’d written a protag from 1899 with a silver tabby cat named Artemis and a horse named after a goddess of hunting, who lived alone in a cabin in the woods. Who, during a stormy night, found Arthur breaking in to hide from the law and the protag assumes him to be an intruder, and recognizes him from his wanted poster and the news articles about Blackwater, but eventually welcomes him to stay, it wouldn’t be a big deal. The tropes are the same but the setting and dynamic is totally different. The trouble is here, you’ve got the same tropes, the same plot devices, the same elements of Arthur and his situation, AND it’s all within the same storyline. Does this make sense? Do you see this issue here?* [... I am moving forward and letting this problem die once it is completely resolved between oscurita and I....] I struggle to see how this is going to be resolved if you intend to keep the various similar elements that you’ve been called out over. All that’s going to do is just inflame the situation all over again at some point down the line. And if I was in @miss-oscurita’s shoes I would feel as if there’s not much I can do or say to prevent you from pressing ahead with using those similar ideas, but if I was you, and I truly didn’t like the negativity reoccurring time and time again, I’d be doing my absolute best to ensure there was no further need for anyone to point fingers in my direction. I really don’t see how you’re going to do that, which is why I’m asking these questions. I expect you will choose not to reply to this again, and give me no further answers for the questions I’ve raised, (I’ve added an asterix to the questions I’d like a response to the most) but despite the negativity I appreciated the time you’ve given to respond to this. I understand you’re busy, but since your are intent to pursue this storyline I think it’s prudent to clear this matter up as best as possible to prevent it being dragged up all over again whenever you come to post your new iteration of this concept. Because to my eyes, unless you intend to move entirely away from the video game Arthur in the modern world, I cannot see how this issue is going to be allowed to die AND rest in peace? If nothing else, should people come to your door looking for drama again, at least you can point them in the direction of these threads to clear up any issues they may have in the future.

@sad-sweet-cowboah Hope you don’t mind if I start a new post here, I don’t want to prolong the debate by doing this, but I still have some things to say and the other post is getting kind of ridiculous and is hard to reply to due to it’s length. I’ll quote a few things from the original thread to keep it linked in reply and physically here for posterity. […I know it makes me seem suspicious but I have a habit of reading things without saving them, etc…] I appreciate that you wouldn’t keep track like that, who does? However, I can’t see any credit given to HOGO or her work on your blog/story before the original call out drama in 2019? Obviously you may have done that privately, but I know how fandoms work and there’s a lot of mutual backscratching in drama’s like this so it seems impossible to truly validate any of this independently, which is a shame. Perhaps it was my mistake, but when you said you’d been inspired by HOGO’s fics I assumed she’d written a full fic. I can’t find an actual chaptered fan fic following videogame Arthur in modern times from HOGO, and nothing of him in that setting by himself. It all seems to be involving the gang too, which is quite a different dynamic to what occurs in your series and Wish Upon. I can see how it would be difficult to keep track of HOGO’s posts, even if you were trying too, because I can see dozens of drabbles, but nothing as a titled fic you could keep track of. I can also see why those little scenes and dialogs may have inspired you, but as I said I can’t see any credit for the inspiration as you claimed? Besides which, it’s all kind of a moot point, because I think the bigger issue seems to be less about the initial inspiration and more about the timing and direct comparisons that can be drawn between your series and Wish Upon. […I also included the-awkward-outlaw’s series as an example since you mentioned previously that it’s a “very niche” topic when it’s more popular than one would think. …] Well, yes, it is now, but it wasn’t to begin with. Ever since the onset of this drama, I’ve only seen a tiny handful of attempts at covering Arthur in the modern world in a fic, which still makes it niche when you compare to the volume of repeated themes in Red Dead fics over all. It was a completely non existent plotline (at least on AO3/FFNET) in October ‘18 through Jan ‘19, and the game had been out for three months already when @miss-oscurita published Wish Upon. Yet no one had stepped up to bring us a story covering the concept of video game Arthur alive in 2018/9. The reason Wish Upon hooked me personally, was because it was completely different to the numerous “damsel in distress”, “highborn babe”, “tough outlaw chick” that were a dime a dozen. There was also several “modern reader goes back in time” stories too, but Wish Upon was the first incarnation of Arthur coming out of the game into the modern world, in an actual fic at least. No doubt the idea could have been circulating, but no one had actually taken the time to put it into an actual story to my knowledge. Does that mean Oscurita should hold a monopoly on the idea? Of course not, but it does explain why anything that followed Wish Upon’s publication, including TOA’s recent works, will be bound to draw comparisons simply because Wish Upon was first on the scene to cover the topic, and as a result is likely the most well known version of it. I think the real issue here isn’t who all’s covered Arthur living in modern times, it’s more the issue over the dynamic where the protag is familiar with him as a character, because the dynamic of the pairing and the story itself changes so much when it’s explored from that angle. The dynamic is also affected when the fic focuses only on the two main characters (as with the gang being in the modern world in HOGO’s concepts) especially when they are both aware he’s fictional that it’s really something that can only be done once, maybe twice at a push. And yes you’d have to be certifiable to believe ideas won’t overlap, I mean it’s going to be a really hollow story if you don’t cover things like Arthur using a microwave, or using a toothbrush and showering for the first time, or learning to drive, discovering movies and what not. However, from what I seen over the course of this matter, it seems the issue with it all lies in how and when these elements are explored in the story. I may be wrong, but I don’t think there’s ever been an issue raised with any other parts of your series beyond that of As We Meet, has there? And the issues raised over the original instalment and the rewritten piece seemed to be because it essentially follows the exact pattern of Wish Upon’s first few chapters, as we’ve already discussed.

[… I’m 99% positive the catalyst was a h-o-g-o oneshot of Arthur discovering lingerie…]

Funny that you should mention discovering lingerie when @miss-oscurita’s most recent update included Arthur discovering modern underwear for the first time. I don’t recall in which of your stories he did that?

Just in the interest of being informed, I searched HOGO’s blog and found a chapter mentioning lingerie (which I assume is the one that inspired you?) but that in itself is a classic example of how the same idea can be done by two different people and still be complete different.

Which I’m sorry to say really only further highlights why the similarities in your opening chapters are such a cause for concern.

Regardless of the inspiration, if we list the similarities we have from the original piece, and the rewrite the issues are pretty clear.

1) Young female gamer protag.

2) Modern day setting.

3) Both have adopted silver tabby cats.

4) Both have the backdrop of being alone on a stormy night.

5) Both involved with an event that brings Arthur out of the game.

6) Both aware of him as a fictional character before being a flesh and blood man.

4) Both immediately assume him to be an intruder.

5) Both think they are dreaming and pinch themselves.

6) Both use touch as a way to confirm he’s there in the flesh.

7) Both fics use the same name for animals.

8) Both fics almost immediately go on to explore Arthur showering, discovering cellphones, watching TV/movies, using a microwave, in almost the exact same order. 9) Both use some variation of the “my Arthur” device.

Then in the rewrite you make changes to also include:

10) Both use his horse to confirm he’s ripped straight from the game.

11) Both use extremely similar types of names for the horses.

12) Both work from home, for one reason or another. Seeing it written out like that I can more understand why people have red flagged it, as it goes a bit beyond simply exploring the same concept as the likes of HOGO/TAO may be doing. I mean it was bound to flare things up to include additional similar elements. What I don’t get is, knowing how toxic the fandom is, and that you’re under the microscope over this, why you didn’t take the rewrite as an opportunity to distance yourself from those similarities? And if I’m brutally frank with you here, it does come across as a bit of “drama farming” when you know the consequences of similarities all too well. And what I still don’t get is how you’ve not managed to move away from these controversies? I’m a lot of a loser, and have kept an eye on this drama since it began and I have to say when you interjected with the other drama around Wish Upon late last year, that came across to me as looking for drama, or at least being lead to it by someone else somewhere. I don’t know where you got the tip off for that, because the post wasn’t tagged and I only saw it due to following @miss-oscurita/you on my fandom account and the other writer in question was very new to the RDR fandom and likely didn’t have much of a following. Add that to the poor wording on the announcements of your rewrites and you know, I’m sure it’s innocent on your part, but I can see why it doesn’t look good to others. I mean I could easily believe you were trying to avoid making the stories similar and accidentally included the horse thing simply because your ideas and the ideas from Wish Upon merged, because unless you’re able to keep them firmly separate in your head it’s going to happen now you know of Wish Upon. If it was me, I’d be doing my best to not give anyone any more reason to throw shit at my house. Instead you’ve somehow managed to do the opposite. The rewrite was a missed opportunity to draw a line under all the past drama, and that’s disappointing to see as a reader and a writer too. I do hope you manage to sort this all out, and that there’s no further public bashing over it all but now the seal is broken on it all it’ll be very hard to prevent the sharks smelling the tiniest drop of blood in the water.

#sad-sweet-cowboah #miss-oscurita #fan fic dramas

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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heres my 10¢. she knows you cant make her reblog your expose post. shes clowning you and the whole ass fandom with the excuses. you shoulda put your post in the tags for people could see. this whole thing with the critique blog is sus as hell too. people need to know about this. but she wont respond with a reblog because she knows how it all looks and that its all a death warrant.

I’m responding to this ask, and this ask only, since most are of a similar tone and most are anon. I understand how people feel and the questions you all have. I set out to get to the bottom of what’s gone on but seemingly have ended up with more questions than answers from @sad-sweet-cowboah It was never my intention to draw additional attention to this matter with the fandom, which is why I didn’t tag my new post. I’m not here to turn this into some kind of callout drama, and I wasn’t going into bat for one side or the other. I was here as a fan of both @sad-sweet-cowboah‘s work and @miss-oscurita‘s and I simply wanted to understand what had really gone on since this drama has been going on for so long and was refreshed this past week. However, in light of being made aware of this RDR writing blog I am increasingly concerned for the fandom and those who may be unaware of the accusations and have no fandom support network/following to counter any misuse of the ideas they may have shared.

#fan fic dramas #sad-sweet-cowboah #miss-oscurita

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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@sad-sweet-cowboah / @arabian-magic I’m not trying to force you to do anything, and you know I couldn’t even if I was. I’m simply asking you to do me the courtesy of answering to the questions I’ve put to you in this post. I don’t think it’s much to ask considering the wider issues around this matter. And equally so, if I’m being honest here, it’s starting to look like you’re trying to avoid giving answers to important questions or letting your following see what’s more is being said about this matter. And since this particular post compares/contrasts the similarities in the two fics in a clearer fashion that the post we originally started this discussion on, it makes me think you only wanted people to compare the stories if you were able to control what details were seen. Which is preventing others from forming an educated opinion on the issue. And again that is inviting controversy because it looks so shady, and is giving people reason to cause drama because you’re being so avoidant, which supposedly is not what you want. I know people are following this thread, I’ve had a number of messages over the last couple of days about what’s going on. Today especially for some reason?

People are concerned about your lack of clear answers on these issues. But ultimately this isn’t my fight, so it’s not my place to address people’s thoughts and concerns over this, it’s yours. I feel as though a lot of excuses are being made here, particularly since I created this separate thread, and you must understand how that looks given it’s content. Not to mention this is dragging the issue out even further and unnecessarily. I’m not sure how @miss-oscurita feels regarding being used in this way for you to avoid answering, but if it was me I would not be happy about it. This really goes beyond the two of you and affects the fandom too now, especially in light of the existence of this blog you run offering writing help. If you don’t want to seem shady, don’t hide in the shadows.

[… I’m 99% positive the catalyst was a h-o-g-o oneshot of Arthur discovering lingerie…]

Which I’m sorry to say really only further highlights why the similarities in your opening chapters are such a cause for concern.

Regardless of the inspiration, if we list the similarities we have from the original piece, and the rewrite the issues are pretty clear.

1) Young female gamer protag.

2) Modern day setting.

3) Both have adopted silver tabby cats.

4) Both have the backdrop of being alone on a stormy night.

5) Both involved with an event that brings Arthur out of the game.

6) Both aware of him as a fictional character before being a flesh and blood man.

4) Both immediately assume him to be an intruder.

5) Both think they are dreaming and pinch themselves.

6) Both use touch as a way to confirm he’s there in the flesh.

7) Both fics use the same name for animals.

Then in the rewrite you make changes to also include:

10) Both use his horse to confirm he’s ripped straight from the game.

11) Both use extremely similar types of names for the horses.

#sad-sweet-cowboah #miss-oscurita #fan fic drama

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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@sad-sweet-cowboah / arabian-magic said:

Hmmm. I understand and appreciate that you want to move past this. On the other hand I also understand why you wouldn’t want to reblog a post like mine for your followers to see. Especially when it lays out all the similarities between these two stories so clearly, and raises further questions about your inspiration and claims of giving credit too. You obviously do not owe me any answers, but there are questions left unaddressed which will likely remain relevant to you (and be a source of reoccurring negativity) as long as you remain in the fandom, especially if this is swept under the rug in such a way that people out there might still feel it’s unresolved and cause to continue monitoring your content. What particularly concerns me is that someone has reached out to me here yesterday and informed me that you are behind a Red Dead writers support blog/discord that is supposed to be a safe space for people to share their fic ideas and draft writings for beta reading/advice. If that’s true, this looks all the worse. It’s also asking people to put a lot of trust in you when you’re embroiled in this kind of thing, and are now failing to provide answers to questions about your integrity as a member of the fandom. I wonder if perhaps that is the reason why people are so concerned about all this. I don’t mean to cause offence or shade you, but I have to be honest when I say this comes across as a cop out to me. You and @miss-oscurita may be content with that, but frankly I think there are answers still owing to the fandom, and this isn’t likely to go away unless it’s laid out and cleared up once and for all to everyone’s satisfaction.

[… I’m 99% positive the catalyst was a h-o-g-o oneshot of Arthur discovering lingerie…]

Which I’m sorry to say really only further highlights why the similarities in your opening chapters are such a cause for concern.

Regardless of the inspiration, if we list the similarities we have from the original piece, and the rewrite the issues are pretty clear.

1) Young female gamer protag.

2) Modern day setting.

3) Both have adopted silver tabby cats.

4) Both have the backdrop of being alone on a stormy night.

5) Both involved with an event that brings Arthur out of the game.

6) Both aware of him as a fictional character before being a flesh and blood man.

4) Both immediately assume him to be an intruder.

5) Both think they are dreaming and pinch themselves.

6) Both use touch as a way to confirm he’s there in the flesh.

7) Both fics use the same name for animals.

Then in the rewrite you make changes to also include:

10) Both use his horse to confirm he’s ripped straight from the game.

11) Both use extremely similar types of names for the horses.

#writing #fan fic drama #sad-sweet-cowboah #miss-oscurita

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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@sad-sweet-cowboah no comment on this then?

[… I’m 99% positive the catalyst was a h-o-g-o oneshot of Arthur discovering lingerie…]

Which I’m sorry to say really only further highlights why the similarities in your opening chapters are such a cause for concern.

Regardless of the inspiration, if we list the similarities we have from the original piece, and the rewrite the issues are pretty clear.

1) Young female gamer protag.

2) Modern day setting.

3) Both have adopted silver tabby cats.

4) Both have the backdrop of being alone on a stormy night.

5) Both involved with an event that brings Arthur out of the game.

6) Both aware of him as a fictional character before being a flesh and blood man.

4) Both immediately assume him to be an intruder.

5) Both think they are dreaming and pinch themselves.

6) Both use touch as a way to confirm he’s there in the flesh.

7) Both fics use the same name for animals.

Then in the rewrite you make changes to also include:

10) Both use his horse to confirm he’s ripped straight from the game.

11) Both use extremely similar types of names for the horses.

17 notes · View notes

broken-minded-love · 3 years

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Hey, this is sad-sweet-cowboah. I was going to type a response to your new post but I had an epiphany earlier about something I could definitely add to my story to retcon the issues. Hope you don't mind me sending this as an ask instead of a reblog!

Oh that’s great. I’m interested to see what you come up with. I don’t want to prolong the discussion but I would really appreciate a response to my post though. I think being open and transparent about things is going to be beneficial for you in the long run. Thanks.

#sad-sweet-cowboah #ask replies #fan fic dramas

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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@sad-sweet-cowboah Hope you don’t mind if I start a new post here, I don’t want to prolong the debate by doing this, but I still have some things to say and the other post is getting kind of ridiculous and is hard to reply to due to it’s length. I’ll quote a few things from the original thread to keep it linked in reply and physically here for posterity. [...I know it makes me seem suspicious but I have a habit of reading things without saving them, etc...] I appreciate that you wouldn’t keep track like that, who does? However, I can’t see any credit given to HOGO or her work on your blog/story before the original call out drama in 2019? Obviously you may have done that privately, but I know how fandoms work and there’s a lot of mutual backscratching in drama’s like this so it seems impossible to truly validate any of this independently, which is a shame. Perhaps it was my mistake, but when you said you’d been inspired by HOGO’s fics I assumed she’d written a full fic. I can’t find an actual chaptered fan fic following videogame Arthur in modern times from HOGO, and nothing of him in that setting by himself. It all seems to be involving the gang too, which is quite a different dynamic to what occurs in your series and Wish Upon. I can see how it would be difficult to keep track of HOGO’s posts, even if you were trying too, because I can see dozens of drabbles, but nothing as a titled fic you could keep track of. I can also see why those little scenes and dialogs may have inspired you, but as I said I can’t see any credit for the inspiration as you claimed? Besides which, it’s all kind of a moot point, because I think the bigger issue seems to be less about the initial inspiration and more about the timing and direct comparisons that can be drawn between your series and Wish Upon. [...I also included the-awkward-outlaw’s series as an example since you mentioned previously that it’s a “very niche” topic when it’s more popular than one would think. ...] Well, yes, it is now, but it wasn’t to begin with. Ever since the onset of this drama, I’ve only seen a tiny handful of attempts at covering Arthur in the modern world in a fic, which still makes it niche when you compare to the volume of repeated themes in Red Dead fics over all. It was a completely non existent plotline (at least on AO3/FFNET) in October ‘18 through Jan ‘19, and the game had been out for three months already when @miss-oscurita published Wish Upon. Yet no one had stepped up to bring us a story covering the concept of video game Arthur alive in 2018/9. The reason Wish Upon hooked me personally, was because it was completely different to the numerous “damsel in distress”, “highborn babe”, “tough outlaw chick” that were a dime a dozen. There was also several “modern reader goes back in time” stories too, but Wish Upon was the first incarnation of Arthur coming out of the game into the modern world, in an actual fic at least. No doubt the idea could have been circulating, but no one had actually taken the time to put it into an actual story to my knowledge. Does that mean Oscurita should hold a monopoly on the idea? Of course not, but it does explain why anything that followed Wish Upon’s publication, including TOA’s recent works, will be bound to draw comparisons simply because Wish Upon was first on the scene to cover the topic, and as a result is likely the most well known version of it. I think the real issue here isn’t who all’s covered Arthur living in modern times, it’s more the issue over the dynamic where the protag is familiar with him as a character, because the dynamic of the pairing and the story itself changes so much when it’s explored from that angle. The dynamic is also affected when the fic focuses only on the two main characters (as with the gang being in the modern world in HOGO’s concepts) especially when they are both aware he’s fictional that it’s really something that can only be done once, maybe twice at a push. And yes you’d have to be certifiable to believe ideas won’t overlap, I mean it’s going to be a really hollow story if you don’t cover things like Arthur using a microwave, or using a toothbrush and showering for the first time, or learning to drive, discovering movies and what not. However, from what I seen over the course of this matter, it seems the issue with it all lies in how and when these elements are explored in the story. I may be wrong, but I don’t think there’s ever been an issue raised with any other parts of your series beyond that of As We Meet, has there? And the issues raised over the original instalment and the rewritten piece seemed to be because it essentially follows the exact pattern of Wish Upon’s first few chapters, as we’ve already discussed.

[... I’m 99% positive the catalyst was a h-o-g-o oneshot of Arthur discovering lingerie...]

Which I’m sorry to say really only further highlights why the similarities in your opening chapters are such a cause for concern.

Regardless of the inspiration, if we list the similarities we have from the original piece, and the rewrite the issues are pretty clear.

1) Young female gamer protag.

2) Modern day setting.

3) Both have adopted silver tabby cats.

4) Both have the backdrop of being alone on a stormy night.

5) Both involved with an event that brings Arthur out of the game.

6) Both aware of him as a fictional character before being a flesh and blood man.

4) Both immediately assume him to be an intruder.

5) Both think they are dreaming and pinch themselves.

6) Both use touch as a way to confirm he’s there in the flesh.

7) Both fics use the same name for animals.

Then in the rewrite you make changes to also include:

10) Both use his horse to confirm he’s ripped straight from the game.

11) Both use extremely similar types of names for the horses.

#writing #fan fic dramas #not going to tag this for fandom to avoid inflaming the situation further #sad-sweet-cowboah #miss-oscurita

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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Hmmm. It would have been nice to see specifics, especially because it could have helped clear your name to some degree if there were direct comparisons to be made and the posting dates fit to predate the original drama. I’m familiar with the awkward-outlaw’s new fic, but again it came out recently, so a long time after Wish Upon/As We Meet hit the internet. So that one can’t really be classified as inspiration for a fic that began life in 2019. Not trying to police you, but I feel you really you shouldn’t use this new fic as a reference of inspiration because it is so new and also because it’s either A) go some way to acquit you of these accusations when as I said it’s not a valid defense or B) it’s potentially going to bring drama to the awkward-outlaws door too. But what’s done is done. I’ve seen heart-of-gold-outlaws work a number of times in my internet travels since 2018. I’ve just done a cursory search of her blog for a “modern” reference to refresh my memory of her work, but most of what returns just relates to a modern reader as the protag going back in time to meet Arthur, more so than Arthur coming forward in time to meet them. What there is of Arthur in modern times seems to just be headcanons posts and dialogue snipets about him and the gang, so again it’s difficult to confirm that as your original inspiration for the concept of him coming to live in modern times by himself, but it’s probably why I haven’t connected the dots here. I’m really not sorry when I say that I don’t really consider those type of headcanon/bulletpointed posts to really be a fan fic in a traditional sense, since they really just “cut to the chase” and play with the dramatic scenes rather than do the hard graft of tying those fun scenes and ideas together into a full linear story where they can take place organically. It makes me quite sad to see them because I think these “quick fixes” are slowly killing traditional fic story telling. Sorry for the tangent. I’ll keep looking to see if I can find a thread there but in the meantime, I have to say I can kind of see where people are coming from in rehashing this as the “original copying scandal”, it’s the timing of it all primarily for me. This is turning into War and Peace, and it’s getting late, so I’ll try to be brief here. […It’d been preestablished it was reader’s personal Arthur in the very first piece I wrote, and I quote:….“Instead you saw the cowboy, dressed as how he appeared in your game, complete with the custom-made weapons that adorned his hips and back.”…] Ok. So why not just stick with that? Adding in the horse reference was kind of unnecessary since what you had establishes Arthur is as the reader played him perfectly well. Putting in the horse reference when it’s just so similar to what’s done in Wish Upon was kind of asking for trouble to be frank with you. [….As you said, I am “under a microscope”. Obviously not an excuse, but a certain group of people seem to stalk my blog and like to make mountains out of molehills…..] But surely that should make you more aware of what you’re putting into your story, to avoid handing these people a stick to beat you with? It’s going to be hard to avoid putting in things that might tie back to Wish Upon and cause further dramas now you’ve read it, but I’m sure if there’s ever a time you’re writing for this plotline and come up with something that feels familiar you could run it by @miss-oscurita or someone you know who’s read Wish Upon too and ask them if it sounds familiar. Perhaps that’s one way of preventing this kind of thing in the future?

[….Back then I simply denied these accusations and asked for proof, which they didn’t give and just kept throwing more accusations…]

I guess those responsible thought the proof was in the comparison segments that were originally posted when all this started.

I can’t even remember who all’s blog it even was that started all this back then to check but I seem to recall whoever did it took a number of extracts from both to lay them out for all to see. I’ve seen less evidence bought against people in other fandoms that has resulted in full on wars and cancellations.

Like I said, I think the result of putting the comparisons out there were less about it being proof of anything, and more about who had the backing in fandom. Because obviously when you have a horse in the race you’re going to be bias to any evidence presented and chose to ignore it or uphold it depending which side of the line you fall.

I do hope you and

@miss-oscurita

manage to sort this out between you and that it prevents any further issues like this. I know it’s not fun for either of you, but third time is a charm I guess and hopefully this’ll be the last of people seeing/drawing comparisons to your stories.

And while we’re at it, I think it would be best to compare and contrast between the beginning of my story and miss-oscurita’s Wish Upon. Instead of reading what some tryhard wrote, why not just view the source material for yourself? The beginning of my story, as some of my older followers may know, is just a rewrite of the original piece (which was a commission) and this is what sparked the beginning of this headache.

The protagonist

My story: as this is from the reader’s point of view, there’s only few details established, such as living alone and owning a kitten. Physical appearance, age, location, job etc is kept ambiguous for the reader’s imagination. Takes place amidst the pandemic to keep up with more current events.

Wish Upon: An OC named Allie who lives in her aunt’s house in New York. There are also other preestablished points of her life that are mentioned throughout the story. Takes place in 2019.

Arthur

My story: From chapter 3, meaning reader has not finished the game nor is aware of his fate yet. His appearance in the real world is a mystery and will remain as such. He’s more wary of the reader and doesn’t want to waste time in waiting around while trying to find his way back.

Wish Upon: From the end of his story. He is aware of his death and that he was sick. Brought in to the real world via a wish. He is more open to Allie’s explanation as to what he is, and understandably isn’t in a hurry to go anywhere.

Discovery of Arthur

Both are similar in the event that reader and Allie find that he is trespassing and the refusal to take a passive approach. Reader cannot call the police due to a dead phone and is more defensive in using a weapon to allow herself to get away, while Allie takes an offensive approach and threatens Arthur with her dogs if he doesn’t leave.

Protagonist Reaction

Both are similar in thinking they’re dreaming/going crazy (which how else would you react to a fictional character in the flesh?). Allie has a much more reactive response in attempting to force herself “awake”, while reader plays along with it in assuming she’s lucid dreaming until she realizes she’s not.

Arthur finding out the truth

My story: Reader is hesitant to tell him that he’s a video game character, because this will only raise more questions and confusion. She instead opts to tell him he just somehow time traveled.

Wish Upon: Allie is immediate with telling Arthur his pixelated origins.

Strange occurrences

While both pieces include a storm, there are differing reasons. The storm in my story is just a normal storm that serves as a catalyst for the events of the story. This prevents the reader from learning more about Arthur directly through the game, as well as denying a chance to charge her phone for some additional research. The phone dying is what leads to the direct confrontation instead of using the smarter idea of calling the cops. This will also serve as a development in their relationship as Arthur grows comfortable enough with reader to explain his self-loathing, since the initial phase of research would have long been forgotten at that point. In Wish Upon, the storm is hinted to be the product of the magic necklace, which prompts Allie to reiterate her wish of wanting Arthur to become real.

Names

Arthur’s horse in Wish Upon and reader’s cat in my story share the same name, which is really just a coincidence. Artemis is a gorgeous name and in Greek mythology, she’s known as “goddess of hunting” aka an appropriate name for, say, a predatory animal. This also works in favor of having Bastet as Arthur’s horse’s name in my story as Bastet is a literal cat goddess who the ancient Greeks saw as the Egyptian equivalent to Artemis. (and again, this is based directly from my own gameplay.)

The horses

Given that Arthur’s horse is an integral part of the game and he develops a deep bond with his mount, saying that this is direct plagiarism is completely stupid. This isn’t a minute detail lost within the game, this is something everyone who plays will understand. It just serves as a simple plot point to help move the story forward.

Make what you want with this information. Again I’ve included Wish Upon’s link for anyone who wants to compare, as I had originally did while working on this updated piece in order to keep my story different enough. Since she and I have discussed both the similarities and differences in our writings and have concluded that in the end there are similarities but the overall mood of the two pieces are very much divergent. Miss-oscurita and I are both adults about this situation, which is a big difference compared to those who want to throw shade.

#writing #fan fic dramas #sorry if you get a double notif #I hit reblog before finishing my comments

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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Could you provide me with some links to those fictions that had/have the same concept as Wish Upon? I have followed it since the jump in Jan 2019 and I seem to remember @miss-oscurita making a note apologizing to say she wasn’t sure if it’s already been done. At that point in time I was following every hint of fan fiction featuring Arthur here, on AO3 and FFdotNet (I was super sick and off work from November 2018 to Feb 2019 so had a lot of time on my hands lol!) and I recall seeing nothing at all that covered Arthur coming into the modern world and being made aware that he was entirely fictional in the protag’s reality. I’d be very interested to see what I missed out on. I hope it’s not too much trouble for you to link me? In the interest of keeping this post from becoming a total beast I’ll quote some extracts just to comment on. [.....The piece I wrote in 2019 I truly thought was a different idea as opposed to a definite answer as to how or why Arthur appeared in “our world” in the first place, or the protagonist having a confused, but chill attitude about Arthur’s arrival..... Up until I learned about Wish Upon ever see a situation where the protagonist was defensive around Arthur and added this for a nice change of pace....] But unfortunately the way the protag reacts to Arthur’s appearance isn’t enough of a difference to avoid finger pointing like this, not when the set up with him coming out of the game and into the world and learning that he’s fictional is also the same. It’s essentially like saying a cover version of a song is an original because it’s performed in a different key. [... The storm, as I said, prevents the reader from learning vital information about Arthur as well as prevents her from calling the police....] I understand that, but it’s kind of by the by what the purpose of the storm is. I think the real issue for the people who have created a scandal over all this is that it’s simply a near identical opening Wish Upon. Regardless how that storm is used to benefit the plot, both stories still start on a stormy night and result in a confrontation of some degree with a presumed intruder. Perhaps if your story had started differently or you’d changed the introduction in the rewrite in some way then there would have been no call for any of this. We have power cuts without storms after all.

[.... choosing to have Arthur from mid-game rather than at the end of his story will provide a different dynamic between Arthur and reader, which I plan on exploring further in this story, especially considering that: 1) this takes place during the pandemic...]

Yes, but again, this wasn’t the case with the original piece 20 odd months back. This rewrite of yours now brings the fic into the modern world and our current situation which, we could never have imagined back when this drama began.

[....various chapters in Wish Upon show Arthur exploring and learning about the normal world, which is something I’ve written quite a lot about in the past...]

I’ve seen, and that was to be expected given as you’re both writing such a similar experience for Arthur, but again you’ve both done it differently enough that it’s not rubbing up against the other’s version of events unlike how your stories begin, which is really where I think the issues lie currently.

[.... the bit with the horse was something I added because I realized there was a slight oversight while writing. ..... Adding the name simply just solidifies reader’s suspicion this was her Arthur and that it’s not some random guy acting like him, which was one of her thought processes at that moment....]

I’m sorry to have to tell you I don’t get this at all. I don’t understand the logic behind the protag assuming someone who appears to be the character they’ve just been playing (and researching) is just someone who looks like him? Unless there’s a video game convention in town at the time? lol!

I won’t patronize you with examples of how you could have kept the sentiment but pulled it off differently, but there really didn’t need to be any hook back to using the horse’s name to confirm Arthur was her version of Arthur. You must see how that really does land like a direct rip from Wish Upon, especially since it’s added after the fact of your discovering it. As I already said, your reader is not at the point in the game where she’d likely realize there are different versions of Arthur. That doesn’t really become apparent until his redemption arc kicks in around part 5 and 6 of the game and he beings to question his life choices. I played a high honor Arthur on all my playthroughts (because to me there is no other Arthur lol!) but I don’t think the honor scale really even begins to move up to the white end until the latter half of the game. In most people’s first playthroughs they don’t start to really even like him until after Guarma. So there’s not really any need that I can see for your reader to establish what version of Arthur she’s seeing because at the point she’s in her playthrough there’s not a huge difference between how he starts and where he’s at. If that makes sense?

I think the issue is for the people blowing up over this horse thing is that it’s just one more thing in a line of previous similarities that tips the balance against giving the benefit of the doubt. Especially coming so long after you’d resolved the issues with these similarities. Perhaps they can’t see a purpose for your protag saying 'my Arthur’ because most of us probably didn’t develop an connection to him as a character until after we’d almost finished the game, or at least gone beyond the Rhodes/sheriff’s deputy segment. [.... The idea of it being “her Arthur” was not new to my story however, as this was something I established in the very first piece of the series...] I recall, but that was included in As We Meet after Wish Upon had already been published and covered it, right? So I can see how and why the copying accusations came in. [.... Also, other fanfictions I’ve seen have always had Arthur appearing either post-diagnosis or post-death....] In modern times? As I said, I don’t recall seeing anything that addressed his illness fully with him put in a modern setting, at least not before Wish Upon was doing the rounds. [... I often put a lot of reoccurring themes and correlation into my writing. Maybe I could have used a different name but I chose not to. I’m not really going to see it as a fault....] That’s fair enough, but you surely have to see how this all looks to other people who are not your friends/followers or are neutral in this issue, as I’m trying to be. [... As much as you may think this “doesn’t look good on me” including the direct link to Wish Upon, I’m going to say this....] I actually think including a link was a bold move, but to be honest it could come across as a bit of a hail Mary pass. It’s unlikely anyone who hasn’t read Wish Upon is going to start now, because they’ve already formed an opinion on the situation based on what’s been said and done, and have already chosen sides. No one is really going to go and draw the comparisons you’re inviting them too, because ultimately I don’t think many care as long as they’re getting their fic fix. Also I find a lot of people who like reader fics like them because there’s such an ugly bias against original characters (which is a horrible shame if you ask me) so you’re always going to be at an advantage there. [.... I’ve had people approach me because they liked the concept I’ve used and asked if they can do something with it....] Did you return that same courtesy with the works you saw that inspired your take on this particular plot? I know most don’t. [.... And with some help I made sure that even when it sounds similar, it still works in their favor because it’s different enough and relates to their character/story....] That’s great! But again, it does beg the question how did your rewrite end up with folks flagging up the changes you made as additional similarities to Wish Upon? [....Back in 2019 accusers were adamant that I was lying and attempting to save my ass on something I’d never even done, so I just kept saying no because I had no proof otherwise....] I’m really confused by this. Are you saying you actually knew of Wish Upon before the 2019 drama blew up over the similarities between the two stories? [....however refuse to be punished for enjoying a concept that I wanted to keep, just because someone else had done it first unbeknownst to me. I’m not blaming miss-Oscurita for this at all because in 2019 it was just an oddly cosmic coincidence...] That’s fair, I know the majority of fan fic writers never offer credit, and they very rarely offer support to the stories that have inspired their own takes, but you have to see how this looks to say the similarities were coincidence back in 2019 when you didn’t know of Wish upon, and then try to claim that the new similarities added in 2021 are completely innocent too now you’ve known of it for so long? I mean, I get it. I feel for you to be honest. I’ve been on both sides of this battle and in between. I’ve been accused of copying and been copied and watched some of my most beloved writers experience it too on both sides, this shit happens all the time, especially in small fandoms. But you know, you learn from your mistakes eventually and avoid stepping on toes. [....Again I’m not going to pin the blame on her...] I would hope not, because it’s my understanding she had nothing to do with the original drama or the subsequent dramas. I don’t even think she’s that active on Tumblr or in the Red Dead fandom. She by no means a “big name fan” despite Wish Upon’s popularity. And if I can be horribly frank with you here, from my experience, if the boot was on the other foot and it was her who’d been accused of copying you, she would have been burned alive for it. I think the reason you’ve survived this drama so well and have been given a pass is because you clearly have a following here of people who won’t hold with your cancellation, because either you have a preexisting relationship with them, or because you provide the content (at a quick turn around) that they want and would be lost without. [...nor would I ever force her into changing her story so I could still write mine....] I think if you tried you’d really solidify yourself as a villain beyond anything anyone else had tried to drop on you. I also don’t see why any writer with respect for other writers would even imply this as a possibility since @miss-oscurita has clearly put in a tremendous amount of work into Wish Upon already, and it still holds in the top five most popular Arthur/OC fics on AO3 despite her struggles with regular updating. As I said, I knew of both your stories before the drama in ‘19. I was of the school that both of them could exist together but the longer this goes on, and the more I (and obviously others) start asking if this is really all coincidental similarities or if it’s deliberately taking advantage of a situation where @miss-oscurita has no real power to prevent you doing what you’re doing? You say she’s been gracious about it and I’m relieved to hear that because I know from my own experience that I wouldn’t have been in her situation, but I’m sure her patience with all this is going to wear thin eventually, especially when the drama keeps reoccurring for one reason or another. [....Putting the two pieces side by side will show an entirely different dynamic and mood between them....] I’m absolutely certain that will be the case, eventually. But as I said, starting a fic the same way as another with the same plot/concept was always going to get messy. I would enjoy seeing where you plan to take your ideas, but launching them in such a similar way just leaves a bad taste, you know? It could be believed to be coincidence the first time round but now you’re back here again, after having had the chance to move past all the similarities and strike out a fresh only to land so close to Wish Upon again? It really does rely on a lot of people’s good faith to give you a pass when we all know what drama the similarities keep causing. Let’s be honest here, it’s natural to see an idea like this and feel like you have more to add to it. I think the issue is that all this relies on a lot of people’s good faith to believe that you had no intent to copy, and all of these similarities are merely coincidence, because (storm not withstanding) the concept and set up are in no way tropes or common themes that appear often in other works. Yet we’re expected to give the benefit of the doubt and believe two people had the exact same idea, one shortly after the other. I don’t know, at the end of the day, it is what it is and arguing the toss is pretty academic at this point. I can see why you’d both be upset by this issue but I can see why people are mad about it too. I don’t think you should have to stop writing what you want to write, and I don’t think (from what little I know of her) that @miss-oscurita is going to push for that, despite the fact I feel she’s well with in her rights to ask you to leave this plotline alone after the fuss it’s all caused for her too. I guess if you continue you really need to be way more mindful of the content your producing, because sadly you’re under a microscope now, and essentially living in a tinderbox where there are people out there looking to strike a match at the slightest provocation. I personally couldn’t carry on with a piece that was constantly kicking up drama in this way, but hey! I guess it’s free publicity lol! I’d be interested to see @miss-oscurita take on all this, as you’ve spoken a lot on her behalf. It’d be nice to see what she has to say to hopefully set the record straight once and for all. Thanks for keeping this civil. I’m looking forward to seeing links to the other fics of this nature, I’m fast running out of stuff to read with this damn pandemic killing all semblance of daily life lol!

The protagonist

Wish Upon: An OC named Allie who lives in her aunt’s house in New York. There are also other preestablished points of her life that are mentioned throughout the story. Takes place in 2019.

Arthur

Discovery of Arthur

Protagonist Reaction

Arthur finding out the truth

My story: Reader is hesitant to tell him that he’s a video game character, because this will only raise more questions and confusion. She instead opts to tell him he just somehow time traveled.

Wish Upon: Allie is immediate with telling Arthur his pixelated origins.

Strange occurrences

Names

The horses

#writing #fan fic dramas

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broken-minded-love · 3 years

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I’m gonna start by saying that I’ve read both of your works and have enjoyed both but feel that this post needs to be countered for a number of reasons. I’m not here to hate, I’m here because I’m genuinely confused by what’s going on here. I am sure you’ll go ahead and ignore or block me so my attempt at playing devils advocate cannot be seen but I would really appreciate a response to my points from you and @miss-oscurita too, because obviously this matter needs clearing up once and for all.

The Protagonist

When your rewrite is set is really irrelevant, to be honest, because this wasn’t the timeline in your original version which is what bought the spotlight to all this in 2019.

Also you really cannot compare reader fics to OC fics. That’s not a comparison or a contrast, it’s simply like comparing apples and oranges. It’s not relevant at all in the bigger issues of this matter because regardless of who the original character is, the plot they’re in follows the same lines.

Arthur Discovering The Truth

Again not really a comparison to make here. Whatever their attitude to the situation they’re both Arthur from the game, who is or will be made aware of being from a game.

That’s a veerrrrry niche concept no matter how you shape it or what tone it’s delivered in.

Discovery Of Arthur

The delivery of Arthur’s sudden appearance again is not much of a comparison.

Both stories begin at night, both during bad weather, both with Arthur presumed to be an intruder of some kind.

I also recall in Wish Upon that Allie takes a knife ready to defend herself, so again remarkably similar in many respects.

Protags Reaction

The way the original characters react is practically the same, whether one assumes they’re lucid dreaming or not, they both think they are dreaming to one degree or another. They both pinch themselves for example, so again this isn’t much to prove there are significant differences between the stories.

Also this issue could obviously have been avoided entirely if you’d gone for a different set up in your rewrite, rather than continuing with what had been done in Wish Upon and your first version.

From what I recall back in 2019 you said you hadn’t read Wish Upon for yourself and didn’t know it existed. So you couldn’t have known of any similarities then, right?

Then why after all the drama would you not find some way to steer plenty clear of adding more similarities in this way?

Arthur Finding Out The Truth

The way the characters handle Arthur’s truth again isn’t really a contrast because they’re both dealing with a videogame character come to life who is going to need to learn that he’s a videogame character eventually.

Like I said, that’s a very niche idea. iI’ve been in maybe ten video game fandoms for over two decades now, devouring fan fic for all of them, and I’ve not seen this plotline covered before. Leave alone by two different people with the same set up and plot points.

Strange Occurrences

A storm is a storm at the end of the day. It’s a plot device.

Regardless of what the purpose of the storm is, it’s still the same event in a story that’s a catalyst for opening the plot.

I also seem to recall in Wish Upon that there was a rainstorm in the first chapter(s) and that the storm itself wasn’t a result of the wish, it just got intensified by it.

But whatever, it’s tit for tat! The fact is storms are used as a jumping off point to start both stories, but again I can totally see why people have interpreted this as copying on your part because it does ring alarm bells for me.

Two stories, one fandom. The second posted two weeks after the first. Both focusing on Arthur coming out of the game and knowing he’s a fictional character. Both stories opening with a storm. Both stories opening with a presumed intruder?

Surely you can see how that looks?

Names

The use of mythological names in fics isn’t uncommon at all, so I agree that it was over the top to come for you about using the same name for the cat as Allie had named Arthur’s horse in Wish Upon.

But

to then go ahead and make it so your reader had given her version of Arthu’rs horse an almost identical mythological name? Well, I’m sorry, but that’s a lot.

it was quite unnecessary too and I can totally understand why drama has blown up over that. Especially because you are aware of what happens in Wish Upon now and I’m sorry to say due to that it does seem more like you’ve copied than it did back in 2019.

Being honest with you, I do not get why you would include something like this? When you know it happens the same in Wish Upon because you got called out for the similarities in to it the past?

The Cat

As for the cat, the ‘19 drama over that was dumb, but looking back at your original version of this story, the cat was simply a silver kitten. In Wish Upon Allie’s cat is a silver tabby. Your new version of the story has now changed to mention that the silver cat has striped fur.

Which again is an odd choice when this issue was raised back in 2019. You must have have been aware that making more similarities like this would only cause more drama over this for you?

It’s also referenced in Wish Upon that Allie had adopted a cat, which is again the same as with your reader but yet another new addition.

Obviously it’s not a big issue because people adopt cats all the time, but when you tally it all up with the rest the little bits all start to paint a bad picture.

I’m not condemning you or throwing shade, I’m just saying I can see where other’s are coming from in saying how this really doesn’t look that good on your part.

The Horse/Character’s “Arthur”.

Using the horse to verify that Arthur is the character’s version of him from the game is unnecessary in your story and again, comes across as a direct rip from Wish Upon.

You had the sheriff’s badge and Arthur’s outfit to link him back to being the Arthur your character had created in your rewrite, you didn’t need to use the horse’s name for that in any way too. Your reader isn’t really at the point in the game to have an concept of Arthur being different versions of himself. That doesn’t come into play until the redemption arch post Guarma. So where is the need for her to confirm he’s the same Arthur from her game? Of course he is!

In Wish Upon, Allie’s version of Arthur is in his default costume so there was no other way to confirm that he was there as ‘her arthur’ or from what point of the game he was from. Establishing that he was the high honor Arthur from the end, and not the low honor or grey honor Arthur of the first half of the game.

Also if you’ve kept up with Wish Upon you will have seen that the use of ‘my Arthur’ is a big thing in that story.

@miss-oscurita

may be able to confirm or clarify this but I believe it’s used as a device for developing the relationship with Arthur and Allie, while also being used to address Arthur’s insecurities and desire to feel wanted by someone.

To go ahead and include something like that, which wasn’t in your original version at all, and to do it so long after you’ve been made aware of Wish Upon

again really doesn’t look good on you.

You both proved you could have carried your individual expressions of this idea without crossing beams. I mean you did it! You both have a chapter where Arthur returns with a kill and those chapters both start very similarly (because they have to given the setting and situation of it all) but are wildly different experiences to read and don’t have any similar elements beyond the hunt/kill factor.

So the thing that gets me in all this, having seen all the drama this has created over the fifteen or so months I really have to ask.

Why would you go ahead and rewrite your story to hit on more similarities to Wish Upon?

First time drama blew up over this your defence was that you couldn’t have copied because you didn’t know Wish Upon was even a thing back then, but you’ve known about it for over a year now.

Known about it well enough to make a post with this much detail about it too, but rather than try to make your version of this plot different to avoid further drama you go on to include something that adds yet another similarity?

Yes, I know, understand and appreciate that similarities will occur in fics, especially in the same fandom but not this many, and not that continue to happen after once the writer under scrutiny becomes aware of the story they’re accused of copying.

‘Again I’ve included Wish Upon’s link for anyone who wants to compare, as I had originally did while working on this updated piece in order to keep my story different enough.’

?????!!!!!!! 🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨

But you didn’t keep it different enough, otherwise I wouldn’t be making this post, right? I’m sorry but this is what really kicks it for me. How is this not sealing your own coffin right here? Or am I misinterpreting this?

This reads to me that you are admitting to comparing your rewrite to Wish Upon while working on it but then also claiming there’s no similarities/copying going on, when you’ve actually managed to add more elements from Wish Upon to the updated piece, that weren’t ever included in the original and have caused another callout drama?

Again I’m sorry to have to tell you this, because it wasn’t my intention to end the post on this note but I hadn’t read your closing remark until I started replying, but this really does not look good on your part.

It’s a really weird flex to admit you were comparing stories while rewriting in a response to being dragged over copying. Surely you should have been even more cautious and avoiding add more similarities to your rewriter instead of going ahead to include more?

Fandoms are so weird. If this had happened in any other setting and you’d been called up on copying in college and had several similarities in your essay to another students and said something like: ‘oh i was writing my essay while comparing what my friend wrote in her’s’ You’d be caught dead to rights over copying and probably expelled. I’m really confused here that people are believing the similarities are innocent and excusable and not deliberate copying when you’ve literally just admitted to comparing them while rewriting, and when the updated version resulted in even more similarities than the first? I want to believe this wasn’t your deliberate intention to meld ideas in this way but you know you’re under a microscope due to the ‘19 drama over the original version, so I just don’t understand how or why you’d let this happen if you’d truly set out to avoid further similarities? It just all feels shady to me now, and it didn’t so much before this rewrite. Especially to continue disputing the similarities by confessing you were comparing the works.

I would really love to see some clarification on this because in all my years in fandom this is one of the most confusing dramas I’ve seen. Thanks, both!

The protagonist

Wish Upon: An OC named Allie who lives in her aunt’s house in New York. There are also other preestablished points of her life that are mentioned throughout the story. Takes place in 2019.

Arthur

Discovery of Arthur

Protagonist Reaction

Arthur finding out the truth

My story: Reader is hesitant to tell him that he’s a video game character, because this will only raise more questions and confusion. She instead opts to tell him he just somehow time traveled.

Wish Upon: Allie is immediate with telling Arthur his pixelated origins.

Strange occurrences

Names

The horses

#writing #fan fic dramas #sorry for the terrible formatting I'm on the app

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