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i love you dearly old man

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what the fuck was this subplot

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We are living in 2025 in the age of Big AI the fuck do you mean nobody has made an open source voice changer that doesn't suck yet. We put a man on the fucking man.

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Want to draw my favorite deltarune post

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i just think the time people spend RPing as asgore's divorce lawyer court could be better spent writing Gerson X Reader fic

who said that

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where's that post about having to handhold other fans to explain to them that a woman reminding them of their shitty female relative/teacher is not grounds for character analysis

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Honestly, while calling Toriel abusive is a major stretch, I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that both she and Asgore have flaws in their parenting. They're not remotely abusive, and they do love their kids, but they're also not perfect parents either-and I think DR has been highlighting this pretty well.

(Like, I am not judging Toriel for having a fun time with Sans at the end of Chapter 4: she's had a rough time of it, and she has every right to have a fun night of partying with Sans. She should have fun with a friend and move on from Asgore! But it was also pretty irresponsible of her to not check up on Kris and let them know where she was.)

I mean...was it actually that irresponsible? As far as Toriel knows, Kris is spending the rest of the day with a close friend, who Kris (and by extension Toriel) trust enough to let stay over the previous night. She has no reason to think Kris will come looking for her at the church, and even if she did, their house is like a minute walk away.

Kris definitely seems to be mid-late teens, so them staying out slighty later (not even that late - Toriel remarks that Kris seems to be going to bed early) really isn't that strange or cause for concern. The town they live in is a small, close-knit community, too - Toriel goes to church and teaches so probably knows most people who live there. Verging on headcanon territory here but Kris definitely strikes me as someone who would have an established history of staying out.

The only cause for concern that we know Toriel knows about is the whole slashing tires thing, but like, she barely seems concerned about that in general. I had a friend have something similar happen to them recently and it really did turn out to be nbd, so when Toriel isn't shown to worry about that, I'm inclined to believe that that's fairly reasonable and doesn't mark any particular irresponsibility. Going back into 'headcanon that just makes logical sense based on the text', we can assume at least that she had a conversation with Undyne about it, and that this probably reassured her. I get why people wonder about this though.

I take particular problem (not from you anon just soapboxing) with interpretations that Toriel is an alcoholic because we had one scene of her drunk on a weekend night. The 'evidence' for this seems to be that Kris is particularly on edge in this scene because this has happened before, and not because of the stress associated with the Actual Plot of Deltarune, Which Kris is Being Forced Along.

I guess I just find people's chosen analyses on Toriel odd, because there are definitely more interesting things to talk about in Ch3/4 which are ACTUALLY in the text - like the effect of Toriel's/Asgore's arguing upon Kris. But doing this would also have to mean giving Toriel some props for putting an end to that unhealthy household dynamic (and recognising that Asgore's slightly invasive 🥺take me back🥺 routine is Good for Nobody)

Sidebar I dont hate asgore at all but thank god Toriel got the kids in the divorce LOL

One thing I definitely need people to keep in mind is that Toriel (and even Kris!) is NOT seeing things from the player's POV. When Kris and Susie get home, it's emotionally impactful to us because we know the two have had a stressful day and were worried about Toriel. Knowing this, it makes it harder to see Kris struggling to sleep. Keeping Kris up for an indeterminate amount of time isn't great - but it hits us and Kris harder than it otherwise probably would because of the shit they've been through, which Toriel can't possibly know about. When Kris gets home at all, we know a lot has happened that Toriel should be concerned about...again, should she know about it, which she literally can't. We the player are primed by what we know to be concerned about Kris, Toriel is primed by what she knows not to be. Toriel was protective in UT because there was an identified threat, in DR she is lax because she has identified a lack of threat. Her assessment is wrong, but only because she's not omniscient. If anything she strikes me as quite respectful of Kris' autonomy (unlike us the player lol)

To get back to your point, obviously Toriel isn't supposed to be perfect - because usually writing perfect people is pretty piss poor writing. In deconstructing the criticism being levied at her I (and I assume others) would never want to 'prove' she is perfect. I mean...obviously, right?

What I want to do is highlight these questions: Does the criticism of her seem fair and good faith? What assumptions are people making, and why? Even if there's something in the criticism you agree with, does the energy behind the criticism seem proportional to the 'crime'? Are other characters treated by the same standards? If not, what is making it disproportional? (its misogyny its literally just misogyny its so obvious but I'd be here for another hour if I dont just leave it here)

Which characters - in Deltarune, Undertale, or fiction in general - are allowed to be imperfect without it drawing this much critcism?

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(hit the image limit multiple times, check the notes for the full conversation)

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Sabrina Carpenter's whole vibe is like if heterosexuality was someone's dead end job that they hate

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Did you know

If you perform action Harmlessly Bother Cat you can receive Sounds

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"how could toriel be DRUNK in front of her child?!?!" "how could toriel bring a STRANGE MAN around her child?!?!" "i can't believe toriel is ABUSIVE" why are we talking like kris is a toddler. the sixteen year old can endure the knowledge that their mother is a human person who dates and drinks.

toriel is an adult woman. kris is not five. the idea that as a mother it is her Solemn Duty never to have any fun or cut loose or seek out romantic relationships so that she can Devote Every Moment Of Her Life To Being A Mother is misogyny. kris has spent the last three days hanging out with susie every day into the evenings and she KNOWS they are still hanging out with susie. she is just overjoyed that her child has friends and doesn't want to interfere! "she should have called" why? she knows what they're doing and who they're with! she trusts noelle and carol! the holidays are family friends!

playing music late into the night while kris is trying to sleep is thoughtless, and the food in the fridge thing isn't awesome. but all of these are human flaws from a human character, not signs of neglect or abuse. you can talk about how kris is absolutely uncomfortable with her seeing sans, you can examine why it might make kris uncomfortable given that so much else about their life is changing, you can acknowledge how it would be frightening and exhausting and frustrating for kris to think toriel's in danger and then find out she's partying with a stranger, but, again, none of that means that toriel is abusive or neglectful! it makes her a Character With Flaws! and if i have to hear any of you fuckers keep insisting that the only Good relationship toriel could be in would be to run back to the ex that is STALKING HER i will blow myself up. good lord.

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I must say, Steven Universe is a lot more enjoyable when you don't need to read through a heaping helping of Tumblr discourse about who's secretly abusing whom this week.

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toriel gets white girl wasted once and people start acting like this is equivalent to her beating kris' ass 'dark world' blue every night. is a girlie not allowed to catch a vibe with a dtf short king any more? what has happened to us.

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friend inside me

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when you realize that you’re going to outlive andy himself