craziertogether

[craziertogether]

i hate mike wheeler hate.

as a former mike lover turned mike disliker turned mike wheeler defender for life. i have to say it, mike hate is SO forced.

they’re are so many worse characters in the show to hate on but for some reason the GA loves to claim that mike is amongst the worst character’s in the show and their argument is like 3 things.

1) mike is poorly written post season 2. okay so you actually missed the entire point but okay! whether or not mike is queer, which lets be honest, it logically makes the most sense for that to be the case. the duffers did NOT just drop/forget about one of the greatest main characters in netflix history. if we remove mike’s queerness from the equation, the duffers logically forgetting about mike who played the most integral part in the first 2 seasons would be the biggest fumble of the CENTURY. mike was the most loved for his bravery, commitment to the party, and unfortunately being el’s boyfriend. but it’s so clear that mike and will are definitely favored by netflix over dustin and lucas. thus, this decline in mike’s character absolutely MUST mean something huge has to happen for mike’s character. and if we look logically at his blatant queer coding, mike is queer. this is where his story is headed. not down but up as he starts to have self realization. logically this also aligns with will’s story of self acceptance, he knows he loves mike romantically, he doesn’t need any more acceptance of his sexual identity, he needs to either have his love reciprocated or rejected. (likely reciprocated otherwise m*leven is the most lame ending to the show’s ending)

2) mike has been a horrible boyfriend to el/doesn’t deserve her. what gets me about this argument is that it’s actually mostly from actual m*leven shippers who hate mike but like the ship. i’ve already been on a whole ass rant about this here:

but firstly, your perception of love is seriously warped. but also how can you HATE one part of the relationship and still expect them to work out in endgame? this is clearly not a couple worth rooting for as it has a character that you believe mistreats his own girlfriend and lacks depth. and you still think they should stay together for the sake of… what exactly? being together bc they were together from the beginning, hate to say it but your first partner will almost never be your last. i’ve also heard the argument that, they hate him post season 2-3 because he became distant but they know the duffers will magically rewrite depth to their relationship and make them endgame. again hate to say it, but the duffers then suck at writing. why wait 5 whole seasons to give your characters in a relationship actual depth and complexity when you managed to give it to lumax IN ONE? it’s illogical to start doing it now unless you could make mike genuinely a god and somehow manage to not make it feel out of place. (whole rant about this on my page already, but will and mike aside from narratively making sense have so much built up tension and feelings that would literally manage to resolve the errors in m*leven as a couple and the weird behavior of mike for two whole seasons)

3) he’s just so annoying for not being able to choose between el & will. oh my lord. this, THIS is the one that gets me. if you’re able to acknowledge byler and still somehow hate mike. YOU ARE DONE. do you hear me. that is genuinely the worst argument for hating mike by FAR. mike is a 14-15 year old boy canonically in the show. in what universe would it make any sense to manage to force mike to just resolve his entire character arc in 10 seconds. mike’s entire character arc revolves around his queer attraction/feelings, internalized homophobia, & forced conformity. mike’s a survivor, had the most insane case of survivor’s guilt AND internalized homophobia in the show. (robin coming out scene & will admitting his own feelings before mike BEFORE GTA6 is insane work). mike has done quite literally nothing except try to be there for those around him, he’s a brat and has an attitude but if you’re saying you’ve never had one before you’re a liar or you’re a liar bc mike is literally a cutie patootie, he’s got unpacked trauma from years of fighting monsters, society pressuring him to be masculine and straight, his own family making him feel worthless and weird for his relationship with will, watching his love of his life best friend being dragged out of a quarry, chard by federal agents? a girl he tried to save being a annihilated in front of him and she didn’t return for over a year, watched billy die, and so many people i. his town go missing bc they’re not human and are actually just melded pieces of flesh for the mindflayer’s body, shot at by government agents, literally had to bury a dead body, watched his own girlfriend over and over fight for her life and fail to save people and tried to be there for her, saw a completely deformed max fighting for her life, saw YET ANOTHER person come back from the dead (hopper). and you’re telling me you think he should just find time to reject the girl who makes him think he is normal for the person who actually makes him feel that way when everyone and thing around him has been telling him that’s the wrong choice. you think he has time to genuinely just make the choice to drop everything because his heart wants it, he’s not the brave 12 year old he was in season 1, he’s not running after will because this time will is not dead. he’s accepting himself which is scarier to him than will being dead.

in conclusion, STOP THE MIKE WHEELER HATE. he deserves grace equally as much as will does. i love you mike wheeler, if you have 0 fans i am dead.

(p.s. i don’t want to see “mike deserves to suffer the most during s5” content. i.e. making him lose will in real life and/or lose el. i love angst, make him get vecna’d, make him maybe get injured but death/losing will or el or nancy is CRAZY. mike wheeler deserves happiness too.)

[craziertogether]

soooo close! you’re wrong actually.

**no hate intended to original creator**

i swear the GA is actually watching the show with their eyes closed and on mute. the OG creator in that tiktok stated that byler getting together would be cringe/awakward and out of place BASICALLY fanservice. i feel like this comes from such a misconceived notion that there is ZERO buildup and that them getting together would be as CRINGE as m*leven getting together like a sudden will kissing mike and then they just hold hands and walk into the sunset. or that will pulls some CORNY ASS “i like you mike and i always have and ik you’re with el but i just.. i err. i love you and i want you to dump her and get with me right now” and mike responds with some corny “eureka you’re right will, i hate eleven and i always have and it’s always been you.”

while i’m sorry that we lost a byler because they let the GA mindset take over. chat please be so fr rn. that is it what anyone wants, it’s not fan fiction, it’s not gonna even be a straight up “i like/love you will” in public. what i really believe will happen is it’s going to a silent realization of feelings from mike and when it comes down to an intimate and private moment, it’ll just be known between them, there won’t be a grand confession because they’ve always known they loved each other, just not in the way they’re realizing it now. i actually hope there is NO “i like/love you” from either will or mike so that the GA/m*leven shoppers CAN’T say we’re trying to BS it or that it’s fan service. it’s always been there you just haven’t been paying attention. byler’s build up has been too long and well for a cheesy get together, they’ll be natural and themselves, which dorky sure, but it’ll be just a quiet love like it’s always been.

i’m so sick of anti-byler rhetoric. if you can’t see queer relationships happening just say it. but honestly that’s on you, this ship is TRUE queer representation. it only seems “forced” and “fanservice like” because YOU have been conditioned to think that queerness is surprising and rare. it’s the same reason people have to “come out”. mike and will’s tension has been insane for years, their chemistry reads, shared looks, & straight up admiration for the other is not found even in any of the other ships in the show. because they ARE the show. they’re the core of what makes stranger things a show for outcasts. like if you don’t want them together fine, but jesus christ don’t act they wouldn’t make any sense when the show has done NOTHING but cater to them.

(side note this rant came bc i got into my first fight with a m*leven stan in tiktok comments and they just ended it with “i’m not reading your long comments to my one short comment” and the comment was “well mikes always been there for eleven” (first off dead naming is crazy) second, no one said i thought that mike didn’t love el at all, he’s just been confused on what kind of love he has. )

[craziertogether]

just thinking

good morning! 12 year old mike was ready to literally k*ll himself because he felt like he had no point in staying in the world anymore. will was dead, he was being severely bullied. his family wasn’t there for him. his friends were being bullied because they were friends with the freak like him. and nobody but dustin/el saw what happened. and absolutely nobody will ever know what pushed him to that point. have a great day :)

[craziertogether]

I have a doubt. Yall always say that mileven is bad because:

1- Mike has hidden insecurities

2-El needs independence

But in the monologue Mike finally talked to El about his insecurities and El heard that he loved her for exacly who she was. Why can't El be free if she is in a relationship? It is said that the monologue made them closer.

hi! thanks for my first anon response! i want to make it clear that my argument isn’t mileven is bad because of the fact that mike has insecurities although he definitely does, mike is loaded with mountains of queer coding. and while i agree that el needs independence, i agree more that el’s journey is about accepting herself and finding love beyond male validation.

so with that clarified, i want to attack this as kindly and factually as possible. to begin, what we know about mileven:

established in season 1 w/ mike’s out of place kiss. i want to make a bold claim here but season 1 is the most mileven centric season because of the absence of will’s character. will being gone for the majority of the season is a huge set up for mileven, but even that set up is very weak and centers around mike’s desperation to find will & the pressure from lucas, nancy, dustin, & remarks made by his father. to break it down, mike’s affection towards el doesn’t develop in a natural and romantic manner like we see with other endgame ships (jopper, lumax, & jancy), instead their relationship in this season is defined by mike’s almost paternal/pet owner instincts to help protect el mixed in with his desire to find will. he never actually says anything about her that shows he cares about her romantically and her character that isn’t superficial or in reference to her powers (she looks pretty and then he says they need her bc she is a “weapon”, something he contradicts later in season 3 but it’s not coming from a place of romantic love). we finally get to the kids which does NOT leave el feeling excited and giddy, she actually looks pretty confused and unsure, because a moment ago mike was suggesting she could be his sibling? (foreshadowing 101)

season 2 they spend the entire season apart have a semi-sweet reunion then immediately just kiss again @ the snowball. we left off season 1, with mike being forced to watch el “die” in front of him, but is then given back will who becomes his primary focus of season 2. el’s “death” does NOT make him realize he is in love with her, it instead gives him the strongest case of survivors guilt seen in the show (greater than nancy’s bc nancy got closure through her report mid season). now season 2 remains mostly in mike’s perspective, we see how he is protective of will and cares most about will out of everyone in the group. something that is undeniably debatable, we watch him formulate a plan for will, all because he doesn’t show up to school for one day and then he spends DAYS & NIGHTS with will at his house and at the hospital. now i want to reiterate something, mike ABSOLUTELY cares and cherishes el, but it is not on the level that he does will. mike reached out to el for that entire year and yet even when given signs of life, he doesn’t rush to find her nonstop like he does with will in season 1 (recall will’s breathing that forces mike to even befriend el and lead the party to search for him). when el does return to him, he is overjoyed and angry with jopper for lying. but it’s interesting that he doesn’t hold himself to the same level of anger when he could’ve easily searched for le on his own, but as we recall from season 1, when will is dead (deleted scene but he cries riding his bike home and then sits there and genuinely GRIEVES will and reflects on his drawings). there’s so much to dissect about the snowball scene and how mike is actually yearning for will, but if we ignore that. the dance between them is awkward (same way will’s is), there’s no genuine romantic connection that we really feel, especially since lumax was also just set up in that same season. strangely enough, mike and el’s dance is a combination of the awkwardness of will’s and the friendly nature of dustin & nancy’s. it’s sweet when platonic but is then forcibly reminding the audience that oh yeah they’re romantic when they kiss.

woohoo, season 3! unfortunately this begins the active dismantlement of mileven from the writers. eleven has been safely with hopper and the gang knows that she’s safe. mike and el are established to be dating, but man is their relationship completely lack luster and inconsistent when compared to two canon ships in the show at this time (jancy & lumax). they are not only not even somewhat mature like jancy, fine they’re kids. but they lack depth like lumax, and they’re the same age? the only romantic aspect of mileven at this point is that they kiss, they show signs of physical intimacy and yet none of emotional intimacy. jancy have literally done it & yet we don’t focus on that aspect of their relationship at all this season, why? lumax have also kissed at the same dance last season and yet this season they’re shown bickering and having romantic moments, but el and mike cannot why? it’s clear why, mike and el lack any real connection romantically, they are both bringing in their preconceived ideas of a heterosexual romantic relationship (el thinks this because of the soap operas she’s watched, and mike saw nancy kissing boys growing up and thought that must be what all couples do). aside from superficial kissing, mileven ends up broken up for the majority of the season, which ironically leads to their best work together. though tensions are there, mike holds onto and looks out for el the most when they’re not a couple (the same way he does with his friends lucas & dustin). speaking of breakups, if you don’t see the insane contrast between byler rain fight and mileven mall breakup, literally ONE episode apart, mike’s in the same position of being called out for his shit behavior. and yet only one time does he apologize with sincerity and show his genuine apologetic nature. you mentioned that mike has insecurities but i think the more interesting part of this is that starting from this season we lose mike’s POV ENTIRELY. we only see it 4 times. when el dumps him, when will and him fight in the garage, and when el tells him she loves him and kisses him, and when the byers are gone and he comes home and hugs his mom. we are only shown his genuine vulnerable nature at these 4 critical moments and in those moments it’s interesting that only two is he genuinely sad, and the two containing el show genuine confusion and uncertainty.

season 4 sets up a love triangle (V) between mike, will, & el for ONE reason ONLY. p.s. this season basically disintegrated mileven as a ship. now i’ll get to the monologue soon i promise. but i have to say this, even if you don’t ship byler, you have to admit that the writers are setting up something strange with a love triangle. every other love triangle in the show has been set up for one purpose and purpose only, to put a character in an uncomfortable position and force them to choose between the two interests. in s4 mike is INTENTIONALLY set up to be this guy who struggles to tell his girlfriend that he loves her. (WHY? when last season he was able to scream it and she responded positively to it) and then is set up to be the LOVE INTEREST of his best friend and have MULTIPLE heart to hearts and literal episodes apart arguments/apologies (s3 callback) between el and will. WHY do that again unless you are trying to show how conflicted your character is? (reminder this is a fictional show where every word and prop is intentional). now onto the monologue. i first want to say that if you have proof from writers or netflix that say that the monologue was acc helpful to el, please provide them! but i won’t break down the entire monologue there are much better analyses out there. what i will say is, it’s impossible to say that monologue came from mike alone. most aspects of it came from 2 other monologues, will’s from the van (aka a literal love confession from will to mike) and eddie (his little boy crush who is trying to motivate the hellfire club to defy the social norms). if you rewatch the monologue, you’ll see that mike saying “ily” to el, each time it does not help her. instead each time it causes vecna to get a better hold onto her and max and her face does not look relieved. el’s memories with max LITERALLY plays right before she finds the strength to break free. showing that she finds strength through others yes, she doesn’t need independence so much as she needs lasting bonds. interestingly, she also finds this strength as a result of mike’s monologue, but not the “ilys”. it’s actually because mike calls on her to fight. platonically his push to get her to fight works but when he tried to romantically get her to fight, she’s weakened even more. and finally, if that monologue was actually helpful. why did eleven not talk to mike ONCE after they arrived in hawkins? he instead ends the season having a heart to heart with will about WILL’s feelings, reaches out to touch will, and stays by will when they’re in top of the hill. he feels comfortable and safer with will than he does with el.

i hope this better explains why we don’t see mileven as the endgame ship, it’s just been beaten down and shown to be superficial since the beginning. even without byler, the ship mileven just lacks depth like others do. thanks again for the ask! (i love anon asks please feel free to ask if you’re a mileven, open to byler, or ever have byler doubt)

[craziertogether]

had to be said.

i’m sorry to say it but if you posted the ST leaks without ANY WARNING. you lowk might be my opp. yes the wait was excruciating and yes YOU might i’ve been excited for them but it’s really unfair to the cast and crew who’ve spent literal years on the show and the fans who did everything to avoid leaks and spoilers. i’m not saying you’re not entitled to post it but at least a small warning would’ve been nice, i’m currently trying to self induce amnesia because of how much content and analyses into the leaks i saw when i was simply trying to look for cute art and fics and now i fear that no matter where i look it’ll be filled with leaked images or content. i get it the wait was terrible it felt like an actual drought but the GA who are passionate about the show also had to wait just as long, it’s not just us guys. maybe im being very dramatic but i have to say that it sucked having so much content be leaked as a fan, and i can’t imagine how it felt for the cast and crew watching it unfold live.

[craziertogether]

stancy & mileven

GOOD LORD THIS IS A LONG ONE. but i hope you guys enjoy it)

so i often think about stancy and mileven in the grand scheme of the show & fandom. if someone ships mileven it’s almost a guarantee that they will ship stancy too. i’m gonna be honest this usually tells me 1-2 major things about the person, you’re too young and have a very immature outlook on love OR you’re used to face value & toxic love/infatuation.

stancy is THE most perfect portrayal of the first “popular” / “bad boy” boyfriend a teenage girl most often gets. i say this from experience, like nancy i was a “good girl” that became infatuated with my first boyfriend, a trouble maker/womanizer but a good time. that is what stancy represents, a good time but nothing permanent or even endgame just the guy who makes her feel special. it kills me how much i relate to nancy but it also kills me more to think about how people are romanticizing stancy because of season 4. we just watched the rest of the show with our eyes closed huh? yes he was very sweet coming back to help clean up the movie theatre and IG the season 4 confession about his dreams with her were “cute”. but i’m sorry to say this like its not the most obvious thing ever but, you do NOT have to love someone because they love you. love is not enough to keep a relationship together. and unfortunate all steve has for her is that same high school idealistic view of nancy that made him fall for her. steve did not understand nancy, nor her goals her passions. that specific scene in s4 when jonathan listed off how hardworking and determined she was and how he couldn’t come between her and her goals. he showed what she REALLY needed, someone who understood her and knew that he couldn’t get in the way of that. steve and nancy are what people who don’t understand how mature relationships are. they’re not codependent (like steve + nancy). they’re not fully based around lust (like steve + nancy). they’re not based all on the goals of one person (like steve describing his insane dream of marriage and kids asap). (PS showing steve with like 10 other girls away from nancy and then bringing back his “i actually always wanted nancy all along in s4 was LAME and just a way to show the audience imo that those ships are also SUPERFICIAL AS HELL. the audience saw right through it, that nancy and jonathan were better for each other, it might’ve revived some stancy shippers to hear the “i love her still” about nancy. but guys COME ON. you’re telling me the GA somewhat saw through that fake revival of feelings but not through mileven and mike’s confession? i cannot today.) anyways i wanna say that if jancy not endgame, that’s insane first off, but second nancy can be alone and independent but to put her back with steve would be like the worst possible outcome. just like mileven.

as for mileven, it’s the same thing. as i stated before i was a mileven lover, but i was also 10/11 and i wasn’t aware that queer relationships could happen. if we take out the byler aspect of why mileven is doomed. we completely overlook the fact that they are the young version of stancy. the love at first sight lie, something that i know many girls can probably relate to, my elementary boyfriend seemed like my husband. i was conditioned to think heteronormative thoughts, that i had to absolutely marry a man and i had to be someone’s perfect wife. that’s why mileven fans think it’s the perfect outcome for mileven wedding and naming kids after the members of the group that may die. it’s not just childish but it comes from a lack of understanding complex relationships and from the conditioning of staying in a toxic relationship. mileven shows how empty and unreliable both mike and el are for each other, outside of mike being unable to say “i love you” to el, mike can’t stop idolizing her for ONE sole part of her identity (ahem steve + nancy w/ her being the good girl that’s a virgin) & el can’t stop idolizing mike for her idea of love (ahem nancy to steve when she grew up seeing her parents, thinking she can stay with him even after she felt her connection to jonathan and choosing to be with him because it was comfortable and it was easy, it’s what was expected of her by steve’s friends). both mileven and stancy represent what it means to be confined to heteronormative and social norms, they prevent you from becoming who you’re meant to be/ be with.

it’s crazy to me too because we see how many people LOVE nancy with a gun and think she literally is so badass and showed off incredible skill throughout the seasons and yet fail to see that the MAJORITY of those scenes are with jonathan?? (like will and mike they bring out the absolute best in the other). they know the other better than anyone else, even when they fight, they fight and it’s real, it’s raw. they fight through honesty and they fight because they love the other and they KNOW that they can take it. with jonathan calling out nancy in season 3, we see how he's calling her out for being immature for not being able to see that he is poor and he struggles and he needed that job, she fought with him bc it felt like he was coming from a place of ignorance and not addressing her mistreatment. they’re both incredibly honest even if it hurts the other one. versus her fight with steve, she can’t even honestly say the words “i love you”, so instead she stays silent. (HMM I WONDER WHO THAT SOUNDS LIKE…. mike queeler). but also when jancy is together they’re TOGETHER. they have heart to hearts, strong ones. they have MATCHING SCARS GUYS. even thousands of miles apart, they describe the other like the light of their life, they call out the TRAITS that make the other so wonderful (unlike steve who literally js thinks of nancy as his first love and who’s pretty). jonathon believed nancy and goes on a literal psychotic bender to find murray and get justice for barb, versus steve who remind me again, says they should try to be “normal” and party? yeah sounds a lot like another person trying to be normal. direct parallels blow me away btw, the GA has to be choosing to act blind on purpose. but yeah, let’s switch to mileven then byler. every major fight between mileven has been because mike lied or felt lied to. he felt lied to by el when she said that will was alive, he lies to her in s3 about his grandma and acts like he can’t completely understand her species (queer coding to the MAX) and in season 4 hes once again lying to her and SHE is also lying to him. dare i say, they’re not fighting with the OTHER, they’re fighting to keep their facade up.

and now let’s look at byler (my beloved)!!! 1) the first relationship established in the show is byler, like it or not, that moment of intimacy “it was a 7”, soulmate behavior. 2) complete and TOTAL trust from both of them. it’s interesting that will only tries to tell two people in the show that hes still alive. joyce his MOTHER, and MIKE with his walkie talkie. not jonathan who has a radio system? not dustin? not lucas? not hopper? the police? no. he chooses his mom and mike, interesting. 3) he hides his struggles from his friends and his family, everyone treats him like hes weak like hes different but not mike? why not mike? i mean he spends the most time with mike and yet, you’re telling me mike never once maybe slipped over his words and said something insensitive, no instead he “makes him feel better for being different”. 4) now onto the actual fights, bc this is really long. when will and mike fight, it’s raw and real, it hurts the audience to see will hurting because he’s been through so much trauma, and yet, mike hurts him anyways, but will CANNOT stay away. one moment i think we forget to mention is in s2, when mike gets angry about max, mike takes a jab at will. “did you agree to this?” “you should’ve told ME first.” will literally looks SO defeated & hurt. why mike? why does will need to tell you? you’re the leader? you own will? no. it’s bc will wasn’t honest to him, will didn’t come to mike about a big decision. also yeah a little gay bc why are you mad about a girl. but okay. and the season 3, yes the rain fight is back. i won’t dissect it any more but i will say, mike’s cruelness towards will was so unwarranted. but will’s willingness to say what no one else was willing to was yet another example of how deep their relationship is. calling mike out for being a shit friend, that’s will being what mike asked of him (season 2 halloween & honesty), and yet mike’s become too afraid of revealing his own feelings, but he’s still somewhat honest to will. he’s projecting his feelings to will, he’s TELLING ON HIMSELF here. and yes we know he regrets it runs back. but the fight is what matters it’s them still being real and honest to the other even if they don’t realize it just yet. season 4 is just another extension of the season 3 fight, but this time, they’re both projecting/accusing and yet insanely they’re both still being honest. will’s accusing mike of yet again abandoning him while deflecting his fault for not calling and mike’s projecting his homosexual thoughts into will, and yet again hes still being fully transparent to will, he calls out will’s bad behavior & WILL’S lack of effort too. all of this to say, we can see as the audience, queer or not, it’s practically crystal clear that stancy & mileven are parallels and only exist to show the audience immature, unreal love. while byler & jancy actually show the hardships of true love. romantic or not, they show how love is meant to be. it’s mean to be hard it’s meant to be painful, it’s meant to make you doubt, take a step back and remember that nothing is perfect but that it can always be worked through. byler & jancy make ALL parties involved better/uplift the other while stancy & mileven do the opposite they lead to lying, they lead to trying to uphold the “perfect” couple image and forgetting to make the other better because they’re too busy trying to make themselves look good. these ships are selfish and don’t put the other person’s needs into perspective. CRAZY btw that stancy (platonic) & elmike are WONDERFUL. they showcase the care they have for the other and how deep their relationship can actually become when they’re faced with life or death. one example is how mike reacted in season 3 when billy was coming after el and he found his courage to hit billy (mileven was broken up) but in season 4 despite being together and all love dove, in a serious moment, mike just can’t do anything to help el, she needed him and yet he couldn’t deliver romantically but he could platonically! reminding her to fight vs the i love you’s (duffers were crazy for this.

basically, stancy & mileven CANNOT be endgame and byler and jancy don’t have to be endgame bc the wheelers might enter an independent era. however, they cannot return to the people that have done nothing for their character development except show the audience how much better off they are without them. also if you think about it this is literally applicable to all endgame ships, jopper, duzie, lumax, & rovickie. nobody doubts jopper, why? because bob was adorable but they were low-key superficial, hopper understood joyce and was willing to believe “crazy joyce”. and even their fights in season 3, so interesting that we see this olive branch that exists between them from joyce even after they spend the ENTIRE season arguing. lumax, endgame from the jump, dustin was superficially fascinated with max bc she was a girl that had boy-ish interests he didn’t even know her, he didn’t try like lucas really did, you could say he didn’t have the chance, but it’s just too clear that lucas saw her as an equal, dustin saw her as an ideal figure (HMMM) & rovickie + stobin , teaches the audience that queer people deserve love and acceptance, exactly what they’ve been denied over and over. and dustin and suzie, insane that dustin had to teach steve that social norms don’t matter, that he should pursue the person who understand him best. suzie is gorgeous to dustin and she’s a brainiac that is now dustin’s equal. dustin has his disability but it doesn’t change at all how suzie sees him, she sees him for his perfections. jonathan is the outcast with mrs. perfect, two people who don’t “make sense” and yet fit together better than any popular jock for nancy. and byler, don’t get me started AGAIN, no one understands will like mike does, and no one makes mike feel better than will does. these ships don’t have to make sense to the outside world, just to the other.

[craziertogether]

had to be said.

i’m sorry to say it but if you posted the ST leaks without ANY WARNING. you lowk might be my opp. yes the wait was excruciating and yes YOU might i’ve been excited for them but it’s really unfair to the cast and crew who’ve spent literal years on the show and the fans who did everything to avoid leaks and spoilers. i’m not saying you’re not entitled to post it but at least a small warning would’ve been nice, i’m currently trying to self induce amnesia because of how much content and analyses into the leaks i saw when i was simply trying to look for cute art and fics and now i fear that no matter where i look it’ll be filled with leaked images or content. i get it the wait was terrible it felt like an actual drought but the GA who are passionate about the show also had to wait just as long, it’s not just us guys. maybe im being very dramatic but i have to say that it sucked having so much content be leaked as a fan, and i can’t imagine how it felt for the cast and crew watching it unfold live.

[craziertogether]

food for thought

and if mike is against will going into the UD alone and screams, “BECAUSE I LOVE HIM AND I CAN’T LOSE HIM AGAIN!” while the gang sits there and just stares. WHAT THEN?

[craziertogether]

will’s character is equally as nerfed as mikes.

tbh i hate to say it but it’s equally as valid to say that will’s character arc is equally as nerfed as mike’s IF byler isn’t endgame. will has been nothing but the stereotype of tragic gay kid. he’s experienced nothing but misery from the second he was introduced.

abusive, sexist, homophobic, AND absent father (who may have SA’d him, if you subscribe to that belief).

bros also literally canonically poor asf like brother… get your bag up fr.

LITERALLY GOES MISSING for a week and has his death FAKED by the government.

will’s trauma isn’t actually unpacked on screen, we’re left to wonder what happened to him and how he was able to survive in the upside down for that week when bigger and tougher people have died.

been possessed by the mindflayer for all of S2, brother cannot catch a break

forced to have a connection with the UD, vecna, and all that even after his trauma from literally being stuck there for a week

love joyce but her overbearing nature in the seasons isn’t that great for him either because as will said “everyone treats him like he’s different” (except someone hmm i wonder why)

set up to be this sad bullied kid, described as “all alone” by mike FROM THE BEGINNING. bullied by troy in life and even after his “death”. isn’t even accepted when he does come back to school in s2

is low-key replaced by eleven by the group while he’s gone. (i love willel don’t start)

mike replaces him for el, lucas and max aren’t as close with him in season 3, dustin has suzie and the russians plot line

wants to play DND all summer and is ignored just to have his best friends leave and join a new party like not even a little bit later bro.. the SECOND they joined hs 😭💀

has basically been sidelined for 2 full seasons as the guy who gets a tingly neck feeling every 3 weeks. he’s not even considered smart or brave anymore, js the guy with the little itty bitty twitches on his neck and loves to touch it

is STILL not well liked by his peers in california plot line because of his sister

lowk is forced to become siblings with the girl that his first love is dating (again love willel stop)

tragically plays match maker for the doomed couple (literally the ONLY person who cares about their relationship)

is written to be a sad gay boy in love with his childhood best friend since idk SEASON 1. don’t get me started in why this is actually js torturous to have done if it will end with m*leven endgame.

hes basically a prop for this ship that is TECHNICALLY STILL canonically true but leaves will with all his trauma and gay pining to currently be put at risk of being sidelined forever for the development of m*leven (painting lie)

wasted how much time on that masterpiece of a painting to then sit in a HOT ASS VAN and pour his entire soul into mike just to try and salvage a dead relationship

forced him to lie to his BEST friend, who, even if they byler not endgame is the most important person in will’s life next to his mother.

forced to LITERALLY COMFORT THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE as he’s still being a gay mess and struggling to say that he loves his own fake girlfriend

sat through mike’s piece of shit monologue and heard him tell his gf that he loved her like 10 times

not only was the monologue garbage but it probably felt genuine to will who’s been on the receiving end of mike’s motivational talks. although he should’ve clocked it as in-genuine, he probably feels like he doesn’t remember mike anymore bc they haven’t talked in months in this essay i will-

basically if byler isn’t canon, will is set up to be amongst the worst characters in the show. maybe his connection to the UD is deep as hell but even if they explain will’s secret powers or connection to the upside down, his personal development outside of the supernatural is absolutely DOG SHIT. he could be more powerful than el in the telepathy world and it would still feel like emotionally he’s been nothing but a sad doormat for the writers that only gets remembered every time there’s a small disturbance in the UD. like no development except pure torture and sidelining him for two whole seasons to be nothing more than sad gay boy that the entire GA hates bc it threatens m*leven endgame.

[craziertogether]

mike fell for will first.

it’s a bold statement to make but i stand by it.

i firmly believe that mike fell for will first and realized it was wrong first. as bylers we talk a lot about how mike had mountains of queer coding and was “gayer” than will in previous seasons. which i think this is why the GA tends to think that will liking mike is fanservice or doomed to fail because they only saw the confession in the van scene. (apart from lacking media literacy) i genuinely think mike had always seen will as special to him, genuinely as like the light of his life, and while society/his family conditioned him to internalize his feelings, his own lack of self worth pushed him to hide his true self (but will later push him towards will). i think the biggest indicator to mike that his feelings could never be expressed was when his own father stated “see what happens mike?” yes it could’ve been seen as a half assed ignorant comment or a warning to mike but i think mike actually interpreted it as, “will being queer was the reason for his demise”. not only the demise of death but mixed with the downfall of how society viewed will as an individual. mike was already apart of the outcasts and not well liked, but mixing that with how no one even really mourned will, now that really scared mike.

so how does this all play into my claim? mike was in love with will when he died. part of him died that day with will. that was a good reason of why he didn’t hesitate to jump off the edge (yes for dustin but there’s more to it than that). thus, when a nearly impossible possibility that will was alive came to be, mike jumped at the chance. yes, because he loved will. but more so he had found his self worth back. it’s why we see his drive to repair his “relationships” dustin, lucas, and el, all of them now working together for the sole purpose of finding will (and yes keeping el safe). it’s why i believe he is no longer hesitant to show his full devotion to will at the end of season one, by being the first to run to will when he wakes up and why he chooses will repeatedly during season 2. he loved will all along, he loved that will gave him strength and self worth again. (something i might add he never felt with el, he ALWAYS felt weak and inferior and with el it only magnified that when we see how she has powers and could save people something he doesn’t think he can do.) as social pressures kept rising, it all pushed him to fall back onto heteronormativity. and yet, even in his peak “straight bro” era. his love for will outweighs that, he chooses will through the storm that is season three and why he biked miles through the storm after the rain fight (bane of my existence btw). i don’t think it’s because he started to recognize his feelings for will in season 3 which prompted his obsession with el, i believe he always did know about them, from the start. and it’s why he continues to go back to will even when he does everything in his power to keep up his facade, he still knows that it’s will that he will always choose. so by season 4, when mike’s back to his bs and forcing his attraction to el. we see it completely fail, over and over he incriminates himself and finds himself going back to will. again you ask why? because will has shown him what he has always needed, someone who sees his worth and is willing to stay with him even when he doesn’t see his purpose anymore. will empowers mike, not because will is weak and needs a savior because they just fit together and do that for each other. it’s the same reason will finds his own strength to confess (though with a cover) to mike. will finds his voice through mike, mike finds his strength and purpose through will. everything they need (emotionally), they find just that in the other.

[craziertogether]

food for thought

and if mike is against will going into the UD alone and screams, “BECAUSE I LOVE HIM AND I CAN’T LOSE HIM AGAIN!” while the gang sits there and just stares. WHAT THEN?

[craziertogether]

stand UP.

i am so sorry to say this like this, but guys please stand up. there is absolutely no way anything in those leaks are true. i’m not even going to share the original bc it isn’t even worth the space in this post. but let’s be so honest, if byler isn’t confirmed or endgame that is something that i will discuss later, regarding the actual plot points revealed. WHY would any information about ST5 be revealed to the public? the duffers and netflix have been so secretive about everything to the point that we have gotten practically NO new content regarding the new season. There have been interviews yes, we’ve gotten very general ideas of mike and will’s relationship and that we know the show is ahead of editing but absolutely NOTHING has been said besides “you guys will be very happy”. they have continued saying since season 3 that “season X is the best season, it’s bigger than the last” and each time we have been proven correct, as bylers and as fans the show has grown into bigger things with bigger relations and bigger villains. so please tell me why ANYONE is believing that “the same season 4 tactics will be employed” and “EVERYONE SURVIVES” has us shaking rn. stand up.

regarding byler leaks. i am actually a byler truther, maybe i’m delusional and maybe we all are. but my goodness, we know the duffers are incredibly talented at writing and creating plot lines and storytelling, why in the ever living hell would they create a universe where they again stated it’s for outcasts, claim that “will takes center stage” in season 5 and that he “comes into his own” AND “he gets a love interest”, all to let him have a huge confession scene to get rejected by the person he’s been set up to be in love with for nearly 8 years IRL and a decade in the show. like i’m sorry but, what do you mean you expect me to believe that you guys believe that will, who so thinly but successfully veiled his love confession, poured his entire heart and soul into mike but not for his own desires but to make mike happy and to continue doing what he has always done. which is giving mike strength (season 1 finding him, season 2 helping him while he was possessed, season 3 helping him come to terms with his sexuality unknowingly and remind him of his actual love, will and his friends, and season 4 remind him he isn’t useless) and then he’s going to what? DO IT AGAIN? “hey mike i actually uhm yeah so i know i lied to you breaking our biggest rule but i had to let you know that actually the painting was from me and el doesn’t think of you at all the way that i said, it was all me bro” followed by a “oh my fault bro, uhm i don’t see you like that but let’s stay friends and i’m gonna marry your sister and uhm yeah ig well see each other around sorry if i confused you or something but thanks for helping me get over my inability to tell my girlfriend that i love her”. IF this happens i will personally go to the duffers house and kidnap them and make them watch byler edits and read analyses with them AND livestream it bc what a TERRIBLE ending.

like guys.. i acc cannot with you guys who are believing this “leak” i’m sorry 😭🙏. but please don’t tell me you’re going to let an unconfirmed source, AN ANONYMOUS LEAKER, of all things deter you from the incredible analyses and actual CANON information and content from the show??? will and mike are shown to have intimate moments, paralleled to actual couples, and have been SET UP to be in a love triangle, all canonically, and this on leak from a faceless twitter account with no actual connection to any cast/staff working with the show has you guys crumbling at the knees.

STAND UP I SAY. WE HAVE BIGGER ISSUES, LIKE WAITING FOR THE ACTUAL SEASON TO COME OUT.

ps. i’m such a yapper but guys please PLEASE BE SO FR.

[craziertogether]

thinking about mike & will

first off happy valentine’s day! now onto another yap session. i sometimes find myself wondering why i’m so obsessed with byler. it might be because i have a tendency to like tragic queer couples (aot, orv, & bbm) or maybe bc i love the yearner trope. but honestly the thing that gets me about byler is probably because growing up with them i struggled with the same things they did (internalized homophobia & hiding my sexuality) it wasn’t until literally so recently that i started to find myself accepting my own queer attraction.

growing up seeing that on TV with these two characters who’s love is beyond any queer relationship on TV. It’s gut wrenching with just the right amount of angst that doesn’t make me wanna choke myself but enough that it’s realistic and raw. they never sexualized or made it seem shameful that queer love exists, and with that they’ve built up a love that grew so beautifully from the very first moment. they showed us that this relationships was incredibly deep, it started that day in kindergarten when mike asked will to be his friend and they’ve been inseparable since. they started as the outcasts and sought each other out and others who might’ve felt as lonely as they did. and yet their bond out ranks theirs with dustin and lucas, why? because it just does, because they found each other, not by “dumb luck or fate” but by choosing the other person to be their friend. choosing them to be in their party. mike choosing to stay/stand by will even when EVERYONE else chose to leave. mike’s love/care for will is so deep that it’s comparable to how his own mother values him, them being the only ones to believe that he was alive with NO evidence and actually having evidence to disprove his life, but mike had even less than joyce. like that is the kind of love that comes after years of marriage/familial bonds, the intuition of how the other is/are feeling.

this love doesn’t fade even though the seasons continue. i think we tend to really feel like mike’s character declined because he abandoned his friends as a means to hide his sexuality, but how is that he somehow still is most in tune with will even through all that. of course he’s already made the mistake and it’s too late to undo what has been done, but that doesn’t stop him from trying. by trying save his relationship with will in season 3/4, it’s almost like he’s trying to find a secret exit within the horrible walls he built around himself. he wants nothing more than to hide his secret from everyone and yet he’s so bad at it, not because will or men are his kryptonite or anything like that. but because it’s practically instinctual for him to choose will just like he did when he was a kid. it’s not like he doesn’t care about anyone else, but that love and care he has for those around him will never compare to they love he has for will because he will always choose and love will differently than anyone else. (again see his fights with EL, lucas, dustin, max, nancy, his parents, hopper). it’s shown to us that he becomes an asshole to them all at some point but it’s insane that we never see him actually apologize to any of them on screen the way that we see him do it with will. the amount of screen time and emphasis they put onto their relationship is not something you do for a pair of friends. it’s not, and somehow every moment they share is so much more intimate than even my favorite couples in the show but somehow it’s still going over the GA’s head. their moments are tender and intimate without sexual/romantic intimacy and somehow they outdo all the romance we DO see in screen. (let me say tho that the endgame couples obviously have love that i admire and love so much too) but byler’s is so incredibly unique and special in way that we haven’t seen in another parts of the show. (obviously parallels exist but those parallels aren’t identical).

on top of everything that we know and see, i stated before how this show will change everything, but all of this build up and once it’s finally confirmed and shown to the GA. it will be a happy, real, and raw love story that will be broadcast to millions. who, whether they want to admit it or not, it will show a story that is undeniably beautiful. a queer love story that isn’t cheesy (i love cheesy) or incredibly tragic (also love) but had time to buildup and grow with angst and painful moments but also tender and emotional moments that so many can relate to. seriously i’m having withdrawals, drop the trailer please.

[craziertogether]

season 5 is going to change everything.

i don’t think we as a society are actually ready for the impact that stranger things 5 will have on every aspect regarding media. a multi-billion dollar show keeping netflix afloat, with a decade worth of development, originally meant to be cut after season 1. not only did the show cater to and build itself on being for people who weren’t accepted by society but their message lasted through out the first dump term and to start the second, it will carry out its message standing up for people like US. additionally healthy relationships for people who didn’t feel worthy of one before, (jancy, lumax, jopper, and elmike (showing that platonic friendships can exist and they are EQUALLY as important)) and a MAIN queer couple? byler is everything the show stands for and more. i think we really need to put into perspective how insane it will be to have the GA feel for and grow to adapt to and appreciate byler, not because it gratifies everything we’ve been saying but because it will show everyone that queer people CAN have a happy ending (esp on netflix), that they exist and always have, and that these relationships can be equally as deep as if not more than a heterosexual one. i think people always tend to think it’s straight girls praying for their gay ship, which we know isn’t true based on how much of the fandom is queer this show ending with byler + all other endgame ships will be a huge f u to homophobes/bigots and an even bigger appreciation huh for those outcasts of all ages.

p.s. if i am delusional, at least i am free. but yeah, this alone should cure your byler doubt. all we need to have is, netflix doubt and how much pressure they’ll be putting on the duffers to please the GA. but let’s be honest, we have all analyzed everything to death and shouldn’t be worried that the duffers would go against their own intended message plus the show is ending so why would they be worried about this contract anyways they’re so much more successful than Netflix.

[craziertogether]

mike’s behavior shift & byler endgame confirmation

little yap moment (long rant):

just to start, i wanna say that i was a m*leven lover from s1-s2. given i was young asl, it was a wonderful ship for kids, but as i’ve grown and gotten more into analyses for media it has become clearer to me why my dislike of mike wheeler’s character despite my love for him originally, actually came from a lack of understanding.

so yeah, i truly think the moment i started developing my own byler agenda was in season 3. i had always known that will was queer, season 1 episode 1 with joyce and episode 4 with troy, it was just so clear to me. but i never saw it actually developing into a love story, i actually saw it as a little bit of queerbait when i saw the “crazy together” scene (ik crazy to say but i was also literally 11). but season 3, was like a huge smack in the face that oh mike is 100% the queer one WITH some kind of feelings towards will. i love how we as bylers joke about it? but truly will’s feelings for mike were so masked it’s insane to me.

back to my rant, i was a little caught off guard by mike’s CRAZY behavior switch from likable friend and leader to el’s personal make-out buddy and actual hater of his own best friends (mind you mike was always my favorite character originally, he was the protagonist that was a little unlikable but that’s my favorite kind of character). it wasn’t until my rewatch recently that i totally clicked for me again that mike was so in love with will, i can’t remember who mentioned it but mike inviting will to his house after el dumped him was absolutely unnecessary, lucas was needed but mike just had will there because of his genuine need for will to be there. rain fight outburst and post breakup crawling back to will was so clear that mike valued will on a level unbeknownst to anyone else around him. even beyond the el breakup, mike is lowkey such an ass to everyone else 😭. he needed to be guided by everyone else to apologize to el, lucas, and dustin. but will was like air to mike, he breathes will, the second he hurts will, he immediately crawls back to him because he knows at the minimum that will’s feelings are greater than his own arrogance.

and now season 4? there are so many wonderful analyses out there regarding mikes straight up queer behavior, but i really feel like this season is what fully converted me. btw i was still afraid of this possibility of queerbaiting, i had a strong feeling that maybe i was still reading into it too much but when will’s feeling were CONFIRMED in the first like minute, i knew in that moment that byler endgame was real. like i said above the way will’s queerness was clear to me was no shock, but seeing it be visually shown that he was IN LOVE with mike i was truly convinced in that moment that this was it, they were setting them up to be THE endgame couple. (ps i had NOT interacted with any byler content until very recently, i just had this instinct). and after now having read the analyses and rewatch the season again, i literally felt like my eyes were opened and like the show was spelling it out for us. the california plot line being the MOST boring without byler development, the fights and apologies, the heart to hearts, and van scene all just either fed my confirmation bias or proved to all audiences that this is what we need to be looking at. it is insane that season 4 has like 6 incredibly byler focused deep moments and there’s still byler doubt in my opinion. anyways yeah back to my original point the complete decline in mike’s character development the last two seasons completely confirmed it for me in my most recent rewatch. there was no reason to absolutely nerf his character like that, and if they do set up m*leven endgame, i actually will have lost respect for the duffers but also for my favorite character. but i have full faith that this show would not destroy everything it spent the last decade building up to.

TLDR: byler endgame is imminent and as a once byler skeptic and even m*levin fan, i cannot wait to see this story wrap up in season 5. i need the trailer, actually the whole season but the trailer will do for now.

[craziertogether]

Need to know your thoughts.

If ST5 is split up into two parts like we think it is, how would we feel if they did the same thing as S4 and saved Byler confession/confirmation for the very last second? (with 0 spoilers from the cast/crew and still leaving things super queer coded but totally ambiguous). I’m honestly not sure if i can handle it 😭