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Formula One All-Time Race Record: Alain Prost

Through the 80s and into the early 90s there were two names synonymous with F1 racing; they were aggressively competitive with each other as rivals and teammates, and held the hard divisions of fans (reminds me how people speak of Mesi or Ronaldo now); and that was Prost and Senna. Alain Prost most commonly tagged as 'The Professor' was a F1 driver for Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, and ultimately Williams before retiring (Carlos better not retire next year) where he spent 13 seasons from 1980-1993 fighting as a top competitor in the sport.

From the jump, he was seen as a fierce competitor and had a huge driving IQ which allowed him to make quick decisions to tackle any situation…hence the nickname that he had from the moment he joined the F1 grid. Over his 13 seasons he would race in a total of 195 GP all over the world, albeit with a total of a combined 68 DNF/DSQ/DNC purely given the nature of how dangerous it was to race in that era.

He started his journey with Mclaren, but only tallying 5pts across 4 pts finishes; he opted to take his talents to Renault where he would be for the next three years. In 83 with his last year at Renault he would finish 2nd in the standings, but would then swap back to McLaren and drive alongside the legend of the 70s that was Niki Lauda.

With this 2nd stint at McLaren being far more fruitful for him, he would see himself finish 1st or 2nd every year except 1987, gaining a total of 3 WDC (85', 86' and 89') and not only win but do so against some fierce teammates such as Roseberg and Senna after Lauda retired.

In the 90s and having lost faith in McLaren/Senna, he took the opportunity to drive for Ferrari from 1990-1991. The 1990 seasons was not bad where he would finish 2nd again even after just changing teams, but in 1991 he would only finish 5th (something he hadn't done in 10 years). He was so disenfranchised with racing and Ferrari at that time that he opted to not race the final GP in Australia and instead start his sabbatical, which he took over the 92 season.

Finally, in 93 he would come back one last time and race for Williams where he would have his most dominate season to date. Over the 16 GPs that year he would finish on the podium 12x, and of the remaining 4 races he had 2 DNFs/1 pts finish/1 outside pts finish; winning his Fourth and Final WDC with 99 points.

All-Time Totals across 13 seasons from 1980-1993

51 - Winner

35 - Second

19 - Third

21 - Points Finish

10 - Outside of Points

58 - DNF

1 - DSQ

Missed 3 races in 1980, South Africa and USA West due to Broken Wrist, and USA East due to a Concussion

Missed Detroit GP in 1982 due to a Crash in Monaco

DSQ in San Mariino 1985 due to weight; and they classified it as a DNF in South Africa the same year but still awarded him the points given completion

DNC Austraila 1989 with his departure from McLaren looming

'DNC' Japan GP 1990 due to THE emfamous crash with Senna

DNC Austraila 1992 due to depature

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Max Verstappen All-Time Win Record

Next on our docket for the All-Time Win Record analysis is the undisputed GOAT of F1 in the 20's, the dominate prodigy, the man with the right mix of Senna and Schumacher, THE Flying Dutchman himself….Max Verstappen. As a reminder, this series was kickstarted for me last summer when F1admins tweeted an image which should his All-Time Win Record, but they ordered it by color and not by Year.

Max started his first full year in 2015 racing in the (even then) younger development team of Toro Rosso alongside Carlos Sainz. It was not a bad start for him at all (we put too much pressure on rookies these days), over the 19 races of 2015 he DNF'd 5 times but of the remaining 14 only finished outside the points 4 times which gave him 10 points finishes landing him 12th on the grid with a total of 49 points. In May 2016 in only his second year he made the move to the Main Team and has been a part of Red Bull Racing ever since; which was alongside Daniel Ricciardo, but also begun Max's tour of dismasting his teammates. In the Red Bull is where he would finish 5th overall with 204 points and get on the podium 7 times…including his first of many Race Wins. Quick note on that First podium, not only was it his first Race Win, but it was also in the 5th Race of the year, in Spain, IN HIS FIRST EVER RED BULL RACING OFFICIAL RACE; meaning Max has come out swinging and owned this team since day one.

Following this rise to the main team, max had a couple of rough years, with 2017 being his hardest. He would finish 6th overall with a record 7 DNF's and only reaching the podium 4 times (two of which were wins) getting him a total of 168 points. With the amount of time it takes to broker deals and get things established and setup, it can be seen that 2017s reliability issues for Max is ultimately what pushed the team to leave Renault and switch to Honda starting in 2019. Where just like with Senna and Mclaren in mid 80s, Honda partnerships in 2019 on has made it so that Max has never finished a year lower than 3rd since, and 4 consecutive World Drivers Championship from 2021-2024.

Rain or Shine, Legend or Rookie, Mechanical Issues or Perfect Setup, Max has proven time and time again why he is one of the strongest pure drivers on the grid right now.

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Michael Schumacher All-Time Race Record

As promised, next up we have THE definitive G.O.A.T of the 90s-10's. There may have been other WDC, Fast competitive drivers, but no one…NO ONE compared to the dominance that is Michael Schumacher or Iconic as him in his scarlet Ferrari. He dominated in a ton of different models of cars, regulations, rules, safety procedures and more. No one holds more WDC's then Michael as he has 7 with 5 of them being back to back from 2000-2004. He may not have as many overall race wins as Sir Lewis Hamilton, but there is no doubt that Michael is the iconic vision of a Formula One driver.

Throughout his 19-year career which went from 1991 to 2006 and 2010 to 2012; he racked in a total of 91 wins, 41 runner-up podiums, 22 third place podiums, 64 point finishes, 17 outside the points, and 65 DNFs. Racing with V10s, V8s, Hyrbrids, No HANS, with HANS, Points only going to only 6th, 8th, and 10th. There is not a single major era of formula one that he has not been apart of. Even the Ground effect era was something he did, just not this 2022+ version that we have now.

Noticeable points throughout his legacy:

DNF'd in Japan his first 3 years until 1994 (which was also his first WDC)

Was on pace in 1997 and 1999 to win another WDC but in 97 he was DSQ from the whole championship and in 1999 he broke his leg with a massive shunt at the British Grand Prix

Had more "out of the points finishes" from 2010-2012 then he did from 1991-2006 combined. aka. 'POINTS OR NOTHING'

Missed 7 races in 1997 from July to September, and Missed 3 races in 1994 due to a broken rib. STILL WON THE WDC in 94.

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Fernando Alonso All-Time Race Record

As voted by you, we start the break-down of the All-Time race records with forever rookie himself Fernando Alonso. With his first full year on the Grid being 2003 and taking 2019-2020 off to race in other series, he has completed a total of 20 SEASONS on the grid as a F1 driver. He has survived the addition of points, major regulation changes, three kinds of engines, multiple styles of cars/teams, and is getting ready to enter his fourth major change in 2026 with the rest of the grid.

He has achieved 2 World Drivers Championships with Renault (Alpine) and was runner-up 4 times (1 - McLaren, 3 - Ferrari). Throughout his first Decade on the grid he only finished outside the points 13 times and only DNF'd 29 times; whereas in his 2nd Decade he has been outside the points 39 times and DNF'd 42 times, almost all of which was gathered during his 2nd stint with McLaren from 2015-2018.

His potential 3rd and 4th WDC's would have been in 2010 and 2012 respectively while he was driving for Ferrari and going head-to-head with the original Red Bull G.O.A.T Sebastian Vettel. As in 2010 he missed out by only 4 points, due to a DNF in Malaysia because of an Engine Failure after 54 laps. Then again in 2012 he missed out by only 3 points with the two DNFs being Belgian and Japan GPs; in Belgium Romain Grosjean squished Lewis…which then caused Lewis to spear Sergio Perez…which then Sergio went airborne and landed on Fernando pushing him out, and in Japan Fernando took turn 1 to close to Kimi Raikkonen who then punctured Fernando's rear tyre and sent him into a spin.

After the 2014 season he went back to McLaren (after they failed him once I might add) in which he had his worse stint in his whole career. This made him decide to step away from F1 with his perception that "The races were predictable, the media is overly harsh, and the fan base is falling." In which he took two years and drove within WEC and Off-roading series before ultimately deciding to return to his original home of Renault in 2021.

Since he has become at peace and just loving to drive for as long as he can, all while knowing it won't last forever; so he is choosing peace and stability over fighting for championships 24/7….hence why he is okay taking time with Aston Martin and is not actively fighting to switch teams; maybe with 2026 bringing back smaller cars and Adrian Newey plus multiple heavy hitters up and down the grid joining Aston he can finally get his 3rd WDC and retire with a smile on his face.

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The results are in, and a huge Thank You to all 166 of you on Tumblr who voted. With this being done I made the decision to not do multiple votes because the percentages are already in order. So over the next 6 weeks, every Thursday, starting tomorrow 01/02 I will post one "All-Time Race Record" recap. In the posts I'll talk a bit about their record, history, statistics, pros/cons, etc.

The post order will be: Fernando, Michael, Max, Alain, Niki, Aryton.

I have prepared the other "All Time Race Record" chart that F1 posted themselves this summer which is for Max Verstappen; but I also decided to look through all the other multi WDC/generational GOATS.

So the question I pose to you all as the people who seem interested in the data I share:

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I have prepared the other "All Time Race Record" chart that F1 posted themselves this summer which is for Max Verstappen; but I also decided to look through all the other multi WDC/generational GOATS.

So the question I pose to you all as the people who seem interested in the data I share:

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Lewis Hamilton All - Time Race Record

Right before the start of the summer break this year between the Britan and Hungarian Grand prix F1 posted this image on their twitter profile which showed Lewi's 1, 2, 3, P4-10, outside top10, DNF, DSQ since he started in 2007.

From which point I possed the question of "how intersting would this look if we do it in order and not color stacking", to which no one replied...so I decided to just do it myself.

I changed it up a little bit and instead of counting p10s before they were points finishes; I switched it up to be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Points Finish, Outside of Points, DNF, DSQ.

In order, 2007 - 2024 (top to bottom) and races per year (left to right)

Counting all from 2007 to 2024 Winner (First): 105 times [Gold] Second: 57 times [Silver] Third: 40 times [Bronze] Points Finish: >2010 = (4th – 8th) | <2010 = (4th – 10th): 106 times [Purple] Outside Points: >2010 = (8th – 20th) | <2010 = (11th – 20th): 14 times [Dark Gray] Did Not Finish: 32 times [Red] Disqualifed: 2 times [Blue]

2019 was the most dominet year lewis had, with zero finished out of the top 10 and 17 podium finishes. Followed by 2020 even though it was a shortned year due to covid.

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super random question bc I'm new to this, but what did you mean by "drivers finishing enough laps to qualify a fastest lap" in your previous post?

All good happy to answer; Basically it means they completed more than 3 laps in a Grand Prix. Anything less than 3 due to either incidents, issues, or not starting at all and they don't even register on the fastest lap timing chart.

Though starting next year in 2025 they have removed the award and extra point for the fastest (if they were in the top 10). I may still try and do the chart regardless if the data is still collectable.

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Complete 2024 Formula 1 Fastest Laps

Encompassing everything through the whole year, adding to what we saw in the summer break, there were some major Winners and 'Losers' throughout the year when looking at Fastest Lap performance.

Mega job and HUGE SHOUT OUT to Esteban, Daniel, Liam, Alex, Logan, Franco, Kevin, and Zhou for getting "podium" fastest laps; with Esteban, Daniel, and Kevin getting the actual Fastest Laps for their single podium results. It's not always easy for the bottom five teams to pull it off, especially with how fast the top four teams are.

There are 10 teams with 24 drivers and 24 races in total for the 2024 season (left Ollie off since he is a Sub) and even though statistically across the board the likelihood of every driver finishing enough laps to qualify a 'fastest lap' is low; the fact that ONLY TWO TEAMS had both of their drivers qualify enough laps across the entire season is INSANE. Not to mention that those two teams are MCLAREN AND SAUBER, for crying out loud. Sure McLaren won the constructors so it makes sense, but Sauber…the team that started the year with 30sec pit stops and almost went pointless, still had the drivers complete enough laps before retiring to qualify fastest lap times; and Zhou got 2 third place fastest laps finishes. One in China and the other in Monaco.

In the team specific I Bolded and Italized the "winner" unless no time

I highlighted Fastest Purple as we do, and then Silver and Bronze

Team Head to Heads [Driver 1 - Driver 2 - Null (one driver did not qualify a time) | Winner] RedBull Racing | Max vs Sergio | 16 - 6 - 2 | (Max) Mercedes | Lewis vs George | 14 - 9 - 1 | (Lewis) Ferrari | Charles vs Carlos | 10 - 13 - 1 | (Carlos) McLaren | Lando vs Oscar | 20 - 4 - 0 | (Lando) Aston Martin | Fernando vs Lance | 17 - 6 - 1 | (Fernando) Alpine | Pierre vs Esteban vs Jack | 9 - 10 - 1 - 4 | (Esteban) RB (VCARB) | Yuki vs Daniel vs Liam | 8 - 11 - 3 - 2 | (Daniel) Williams | Alex vs Logan vs Franco | 10 - 5 - 4 - 5 | (Alex) Haas | Nico vs Kevin | 7 - 14 - 3 | (Kevin) Kick Sauber | Valtteri vs Zhou | 9 - 15 - 0 | (Zhou)

Number of "Podium" Fastest Laps (1st-2nd-3rd)

Max: 3 - 5 - 5 (Aka. 3 Fastest Laps) Sergio: 1 - 1 - 3 (Aka. 1 Fastest Lap) Lewis: 2 - 5 - 1 (Aka. 2 Fastest Laps) George: 2 - 2 - 2 (Aka. 2 Fastest Laps) Charles: 3 - 1- 2 (Aka. 3 Fastest Laps) Carlos: 1 - 1 - 1 (Aka. 1 Fastest Laps) Lando: 6 - 3 - 1 (Aka. 6 Fastest Laps) Oscar: 1 - 1 - 3 (Aka. 1 Fastest Laps) Fernando: 2 - 1 - 1 (Aka. 2 Fastest Laps) Lance: NONE Pierre: NONE Esteban: 1 - 0 - 0 (Aka. 1 Fastest Laps) Jack: NONE Yuki: NONE Daniel: 1 - 0 - 0 (Aka. 1 Fastest Laps) Liam: 0 - 0 - 1 Alex: 0 - 1 - 0 Logan: 0 - 1 - 0 Franco: 0 - 1 - 0 Nico: NONE Kevin: 1 - 0 - 0 (Aka. 1 Fastest Laps) Valtteri: NONE Zhou: 0 - 0 - 2

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Post "ETIHAD AIRWAYS ABU DHABI GRAND PRIX 2024" Points Theory

Well thats a wrap on the 2024 season with the last race of the season done here is not onlt the post race points theory but the year end results. Reminder as this is the end, this was running two methods; First to see with the Points to 12th as proposed by the FIA, and Secondly with Points to 20th (20 for 1st, 1 for 20th).

This race was definetly way less hectic then Qatar and Lando was undoutaably in control all weekend. But the fact that from turn 1 Max/Oscar, Checo/Bottas, and all the other chaos that followed which lead to 5 drivers not finishing the race was still crazy as a finisher. With a nice recovery from Oscar to get back into 10th, solid ending for Lewis to overtake and finish 4th, and the likes of Zhou / Yuki / Alex all jockeying for the last points.

With points to 12th we can see that; Max finishes the 2024 season 60 pts ahead for the Championship. Zhou finished 1 pt behind Liam (RBR is banking on some magic). Max securing the championship while 2-4th are held by the drivers from the top two teams on the Constructors is crazy talented.

With points to 20th we can that; Max secures the championship with only a 19 point advantage to Lando (EYE EMOJI), meaning a couple better finishes and this could have been tighter. 2nd-4th is still owned by the top two teams. Fracno out scoring Logan was not something I had expected when the swap happened. Valtteri and Zhou being 12 points apart shows why they are trying to stay in F1 and not give up. Couple more bigger finishes from Fernando like in 2023 and then Sergio would have finished 9th in the WDC. Oscar did good to show why Mclaren cant pick a number 1 driver on merit alone.

Looking forward to run this again throughout 2025 with 5+ rookies joining the grid.

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Post "QATAR AIRWAYS QATAR GRAND PRIX 2024" Points Theory

Holly Molly did Qatar not dissapoint at uniting the pundits and fans against the FIA and stewards. With all of the random penalities starting during qualifing and Maxs one place drop all the way through Lewis Drive thru and Landos Stop/Go. Not to mention all the on track crazyness that lead to 5 cars retiring (would have been more if Lewis had his way). Not to mention Lando paying Oscar back for Brazil and going against team orders to give him the Sprint Victory.

However, Max took the lead from turn 1 and it was never in doubt even when Lando was pushing him because we know Max will not go wheel to wheel. But the rest of the field had a handfull of recovery drives, ZHOU getting his and Subers first point scoring finish, and a unfinished Constructor title.

Looking at the points to 12th model we can see that Lando/Mclaren are not free from Charles/Ferrari in this version either, Valtteri finishing in 11th final would get him on the board, Zhou in 8th would now have 7 (could finish higher then Liam at this point). Williams, Vcarb, Haas, and Alpine are also going all the way to the end to decide the order...and each keeping having half of the garage not finish.

In this Points to 20th model its wrapped with Mclaren winning since even if Ferrari finish 1-2 they wouldnt surpass Mclarens overall. Aston, Haas, VCARB, and Alpine are all still stuggling for position and Abu Dhabi better deliver a banger race from everyone to cap off the season.

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Points Theory post "HEINEKEN SILVER LAS VEGAS GRAND PRIX 2024"

I want to start off by saying contragulations to Max for getting his 4th Championship and tying Seb for the redbull conscutive record. There was a lot of us that assumed from day 1 testing in Bahrain that the season was over, but the fact that it dragged out to the 22nd race of the season with the top 6 all winning multiple races and multiple 1-2s is mind blowing as a newer F1 fan.

Further on a weekend where Mercedes came alive out of nowhere, huge props to ferrari to keep the constructors battle going, and pushing mclaren even closer to the breaking point this year.

As for the rest of the drivers standings, Yuki did good to qualify in the points and not fall off during the race; Alpine has a horrid weekend after such a strong Brazil, and poor peirre blowing out part of his side pod from the sheer power of the tow from Yuki on the strip straight. Further sucky weekend for Williams after the chaos that was Brazil and potentially not having a car for Vegas, and then Alex having to retire the car....making this the 4th race he hasnt finished since Franco joined the team.

In this Points to 12th model Zhou was close to gaining another point with a strong 13th place finish for him in the Flame Sauber. Everyone else just solidified their postions more.

With this Points to 20th model it shows how close Lando, Charles, and Oscar are to eachother. Further showing how well Nico, Fernando, and Valtteri have been driving across the year. This model to me still does the best to represent and relate to what we see on the track performance and not just who gets to be in the top 10.

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Points Theory - "FORMULA 1 LENOVO GRANDE PRÊMIO DE SÃO PAULO 2024"

Hello MOLLY Max Verstappen, love him or hate him that was a MEGA MEGA performance around interlagos last time around. He started in the back, took the lead by force, and ran away with it....all while managing the weather perfectly. That is going to go down as one of his all time drives. Also huge props to Alpine its strategy like this that solidifes your position and earns you the extra money you need to keep going forward.

This three week break has been killer and I am exicited for F1 to be back even if its only a few weeks until we cap off the 2024 season.

There were some big winners and a lot of point solidfing that came out of Brazil.

Top10 stayed the same, Yuki gained 1, Pierre gained 4, Esteban gained 3, and Ollie got 1 more point while losing his 2024 rookie status. In the custroctors Alpine gained 1 and is super close to Haas now, and Mclaren continued to pull away with first (but can they keep it)

Looking at the Points to 20th version we can see similar gains for people like Pierre and Esteban with their podium finish, but not as much of gain for the likes of Yuki with his mid performance post summer break.

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Post "FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE LA CIUDAD DE MÉXICO 2024" Points Theory

2024 definitely has proven to be what F1 could be, and anyone who left during 2023 Max dominance is missing out. The on track battles we have been able to witness all year at the front of the field have been amazing. With that, Mexico showed us just like with Austin the lengths Max will go to ensure that his publicity rival will not get in his way; though I'll be curious what that looks like now as only Carlos is safe from that due to mathematically being eliminated from getting 1st by the end. It was another strong point grab for Haas, helping them shot closer to Aston and be a hard lock for 6th, performing the way it was assumed VCARB would, with them taking as much of the RB19 as legal. Aston, Alpine, Sauber, Williams, VCARB, are all kinds of middling still and as we ramp down in the year I am sure they are all in the teams anyway focused more on 2025. Franco and Liam have been bright spots for their respective teams, slotting in on short notice and doing what the drivers they are replacing couldn't.

Most drivers just continued to solidify their point totals, but Kevin made a big jump and could see himself being close to Nico before the year is over. Ferrari officially knocked RB to 3rd.

We are deep enough into the year that points to 20th aligns just like the others just with bigger numbers for the most part. But throughout 11th-23rd it does show a better cumlative picture of the driving done throughout the year and where the constructors are realistically.

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Post "PIRELLI UNITED STATES GRAND PRIX 2024" Points Theory

After a three-week break to extend the season, the Austin GP at COTA did not disappoint this year; and even if there was no DQs after the race the FIA were still busy dishing out the penalties all weekend long. With it being a Sprint race weekend, there were a lot of extra points on the table for teams like Haas that have been able to consistantly punch up as a midfield gatekeeping T5 team. Charles had a firm grip on the main race on Sunday, but their sponsors won't be happy that Max and Lando were again the focus scrapping it out in the middle and Charles/Carlos in his scarlet Ferrari was just let alone at the front with barely any screen time.

The FIA may or maynot (depending on your bias) have rigged Max to get on to the podium, but that does not take away from the absolute mega drives from Nico, Kevin, Liam, George, Charles, and Carlos. Haas was on point all weekend scoring in both the main race and the sprint, George went from PITLANE to P6 passing the entire field and SERGIO PEREZ (fake shock), Liam got into Q2 placing it third and then with the grid drop they saved the car, but he still made it up 9th, and by lap three Ferrari had pretty much secured their 1-2 finish with them both capitalizing on Max doing Max things to keep Lando away.

Pierre, Kevin, and Fracno +1 and Liam slots in 20th in his first race. Everyone else was just point solidifying. If Max keeps terrorizing Lando Charles and Oscar will have a chance to pass him.

I have always liked this version of Points to 20th more, it gives a better feel of what we actually see on track all year and not just random finishing places.

Yuki and Kevin +1, Esteban and Pierre Tied. Everyone else just keept pooling in the points. Looking at this version you can see Red Bull dropped to third now and Haas is pushing towards 5th. Where as the drivers the top 4 are all within a single 1st palce finish of eachother with 5 races to go.

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Post "SINGAPORE AIRLINES SINGAPORE GRAND PRIX 2024" Points Theory

Holy nail-biter this season has become, and just can't stop being flabbergasted at how good It's turning up compared to what EVERYONE though in January pre-season. The race is on for Lando, Charles, and Oscar to see if they can take any more chunks out of the raining champion of the paddock. Carlo and Lewis are definitely capable of clinching 2nd depending on how things turn out, and unless some ungodly act of nature comes over Aston…Sergio has secured 7th or 8th for 2024 (which he hasn't finished that low since joining Red Bull). 10th on is all a toss up right now, these mid-field and back marker teams are fighting tooth and nail for every single point, and they are scrapping their way up, though Yuki's string of unfortunate luck has allowed Nico to pull away, but maybe that will turn around with the last 6 races.

Y'all have heard enough yapping out of everyone about how good Lando did in Singapore and all the talking points out of that, so I won't bore you through all of those details again.

Points to 12th shows us a closer picture to overall performance and team ability.

Points to 20th shows an overall better picture of the season overall, and it will always be my personal favorite. It is a more in depth depiction of what's happening across the entire weekend and paddock.

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Post 'QATAR AIRWAYS AZERBAIJAN GRAND PRIX 2024' Points Theory

HOLY GODS WHAT A RACE!! Can you imagine what it would be like if all 24 races all year were like this?! Lewis and Lando slicing through the field, Oscar taking late braking meanuvers for the lead all while holding Charles off, we got to see racing between nearly every driver at some point. It was amazing, so happy I got up early to watch and not fall back asleep.

MCLAREN HAVE FINALLY SUPRASSED RED BULL!! We knew this day was coming but it was a matter of when...and now its a matter of can they keep it tell the end. Furthermore, with todays finish positions the top 4 WDC positions are really up in the air regardless of what points format you look at.

Without further delay here is the Points to 12th standings after the Azerbaijan Grand Prix. Lando, Oscar, and Charles are all fighting with Max for who is going to finish 1st. Ferari and Mclaren are going to be also duking it out for who gets to be 1st (as long as both cars finish).

With Points to 20th it further solidifes how close these teams and drivers are this year. (Even though there was 4 DNFS only Yuki didnt get any points as he didnt finish enough to get a position.)