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latmosims · 4 days ago

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Toke me some time to gather my thoughts over this post, but I think I'm finally ready to share them.

Before I do so, a bit of a disclaimer: my thoughts are mine alone, and although I might disagree, doesn't mean I'm attacking anyone. If my wording is sometimes harsh, it's just that this particular debate is one I've seen and had many times before, and is one that affects and frustrates me easily. Also, my response is for the community as a whole, not necessarily Pooklet (I will reference their words though).

(also, I keep saying "OP" throughout this post, I meant by it "original post", therefore mentioning the post itself and not its author)

TL;DR (but please, do try to read it all though): Not every creator is looking to become the "Next Sim Superstar" and supporting creators through monetary means, even if those unlock some special temporary rewards, doesn't automatically make it bad. On the contrary, there's room for everyone in this community, especially those who contribute to it. And helping them pay their bills is a-ok.

I'll mention my history with TS2 as well: I started playing in 2008, and discovered the community in late 2009. I believe my first CC might be from 2013-ish? Although I was young back then, I remember very well what Pooklet mentioned about community shifts, and overall views on 'paid content'. T$R was still partially paid at the time.

I don't think seniority in a community should come with any kind of "special treatment", but I am still going to mention my experience because, as a longtime member of TS2 community, I don't share some of the views on this particular issue.

Paywall =/= Early Access

Right of the bat, I am going to say this: I have nothing to say about what the OP says on content that is blocked behind a pay wall. Like mentioned, EA's EULA on the matter is clear on that part: no one is allowed to charge for content made for the game, and any and all content made for it is property of EA.

However, it's a bit of an easy way out to mention this EULA without also mentioning the policy stated by EA itself on mods and their distribution, which you can find right here.

"But that policy only covers The Sims 4!"

That too is sort of an "easy way out" because TS2 is a 20-year old game and EA couldn't possibly predict the shifts in the way people interact with community-made content. Early-Access wasn't even a term associated with mods back then ("TESTERS WANTED" anyone?) so at worst EA's policy on that for TS2 mods in "unclear".

Except it isn't, because when Legacy Edition dropped this year it was stated on the Launch patch notes that players should check out that same policy for all "The Sims" games. And that policy does state "Early-Access", "Donations" and "Passive ads on the mod's website" (like SFS ads or TSR ads) as acceptable methods for creators to request compensation for their creations.

I know that Pooklet mainly references what the few (and I do mean few) creators who straight up charge for CC in the OP, but their post also seems to blur the lines between that, which isn't allowed, and what other, more sensible people, are doing. Which is giving incentive to players to support them.

Context matters

This an aspect of the OP that I will bluntly say: I don't vibe with. Saying that people want to become the next "#simsinfluencer", or whatever, is a bit condescending to me. Maybe it was true at one point in time, but I highly doubt anyone is coming into TS2 community hoping to develop their "#brand" and support their "#sidehustle" like it's all some "landgraabbing" scheme.

This is probably what frustrastes me the most. Context matters. Seeing any and all people who approach this game with the word "money" in their posts as some kind of "hyper-capitalist" monsters straight out of "hustle culture", is as bad as those who come here wanting to turn a quick buck without a care in the world.

Furthermore, society and technology has changed a lot since 2004 and TS2 community space doesn't exist in a vacuum. Some stuff has become easier to do, like hosting files or image editing, but other stuff also became harder. I'll develop my point-of-view on that later, but mainly take from this that: shifts in culture happen, and new concepts that resemble stuff we disliked in the past, don't automatically mean they MUST be the same and therefore bad.

Cyber-bullying & Exceptions

Villainizing all creators who ask for supporters becomes a real issue when the community, under the cover of anonymous asks, starts bullying those creators for no justifiable reason. You are not on the side of "justice" when you take upon yourself to send hateful messages to someone over something optional that they are not forcing you to do. Very few actually demand those people to stop attacking that creator. And anytime this discussion resurfaces, fewer even mention this problem at all.

Weirdly enough, TS2 community is no stranger to some of its members doing what everyone seems to dislike, and yet it's like there's some kind of "untold rule" because for those people it's ok?

@lazyduchess, who sometimes is jokingly seen has the messiah of modern TS2 modding, has a Patreon with paid tier extras incentivizing people to support them.

@jacky93sims accepts paid commissions for things people would like to have in their games.

@microscotch is selling merchandise using assets they extracted from the game using all the same tools everyone uses to create custom content.

And multiple people here have Youtube channels, through which they get side-money running ads.

I am not trying to throw anyone under the bus, I WANT those people to be supported monetarily so hopefully they keep doing what is probably something they like (Heck, I've been eyeing that Bella Goth shirt for weeks now). But for some reason, when it comes to having a reasonable period of early-access, it's too much? I must pull the "Double Standards" card here.

No one needs a piece of CC so much that waiting a small period of time would suddenly render the experience of surfing the community a total waste. I regularly download stuff for TS4 on the rare occasions I want to play it, and when stuff is unavailable at the moment, I just save it for later (most times I don't even come back to it) and move on. I certainly don't go write a hateful comment under the creator's post or think they're obnoxious for using some method of monetization for the time spent doing what they enjoy.

Quality & Time

There's also the matter of expectations. Since TS2 is an older game, there's a lot of stuff we discovered during the time we've been modding it, and that's awesome!

Optimizing files, higher quality textures, saving file space, are some of the aspects creators of our community tend to keep in mind when sharing stuff nowadays.

There's also what I call the "quality assurance checklist" that players who download stuff have (and I say that being one of them). Everyone has their own checklist, but stuff like: morphs, age/gender conversions, repositoried or standalone versions, hair systems, thought-out descriptions or prices in the catalog, functional or gameplay appropriate objects, custom body shapes, etc.

And then the most technical stuff, the things that became a concern with the passing years, as the game became older and unoptimized for the computers we run nowadays: polycount, texture size, older file formats that destroy image quality, whether or not that lot comes with the 'Super Duper Hug Bug' or was Inhabited. This by the way, is the reason why I feel like the argument that "TS2 is a 20-year old game and it makes no sense to monetize for it" doesn't hold up.

I'm not saying that everyone should make a Patreon simply because all of this takes time and effort. But I am saying: those who take that time, definitely deserve the reward. Enjoying giving to the community, should be able to be met with people enjoying giving back to the creator. And I think stuff like Patreon makes for a better communication hub between the two sides. Creators can spend more time doing that hobby they like, maybe because hopefully it allowed them to free up some time to spend creating (in an ideal scenario, I'm sure other cases exist), and in exchange for a bit of monthly money, their supporters get to have that piece of CC a bit earlier and maybe even vote on the next project. In my eyes, that doesn't feel like something coming straight out of capitalistic culture.

This view on the subject is well met in other spaces. Artists, musicians, podcasters, game developers (look at Paralives!!), youtubers, the list goes on and on. This is a good thing! It means people can actually give directly to those whose content they like, those they want to support. Saying "we don't do that here" to me feels more like a "your hobby isn't worth the effort, sorry".

The OP says "We don't want influencers in our midst, go monetize your hobby elsewhere" – whilst completely disregarding the fact that some people's hobby is TS2? Why should we not support our own like other communities do? Out of principle over the past?

Let people do what they want with their content I say. As long as it doesn't break anyone's games (right Lindasims? right??) and as long as it becomes free eventually. Again, no one needs a piece of CC so bad they can't wait, but the creator might actually need the money to be able to continue enjoying their hobby. And what if some people feel like it's more worth it to support creators only if they get something in return? Let. Them. Be.

"But they are using tools made by others for free!"

I could make an argument over the fact that, technically speaking, the tools made by those people are the property of EA. Since they technically base themselves on proprietary resources that don't belong to their creators. SimPE's code belongs to it's creator, yes, but the software itself uses TS2 assets to function. Without them, it serves no purpose and therefore no use. I'm not going to make a case for that however, because EA can eat grass.

The people who made those tools made them free because they wanted to. I salute that principle, and I wished it was that easy for everyone, all the time. Unfortunately it isn't.

My personal view on the matter is that all knowledge which is shared for free, is there to be used in whatever way those who find value in it want to. There are exceptions of course, but not for the tools used for TS2 modding/creation for me.

I can understand and respect someone's TOUs, and generally I tend to always make my upmost to give credit back and not abuse what has been given. But, I'm no programmer, of course I'm not going to de/re-compile package resources, or convert them into readable formats that can be used by softwares like Milkshape or the like. Saying nothing can be monetized if you didn't do 100% of the work is just not a very realistic thing to say. Freeware always came with the notion that it's meant to better people's lives. And again, it also completely overlooks the context of the monetization being done, which I'll say again: is optional.

An artist? In THIS economy?

Finally, I'd also like to touch upon one aspect that seems crucial to me. But before that I'm going to talk a little bit about myself as an example: I've been a creative person since forever. I like to draw, to imagine stories, to play around with 3D, to code (sometimes…). For this reason I've followed a professional path in Graphic Design, because it seemed to have a lot of the things I liked growing up (like doing photo editing in Photoshop with my Sims OCs!). I'm 28 years old now, not exactly old, but also not young per say. I'm also currently trying to heal from a depressive episode that has been lasting for almost 3 years due to my job. It's hard to reconcile being an artist in a capitalistic society. I thought maybe Graphic Design was a way to enjoy my job whilst still having proper income, unlike my parents who had to take up a job that slowly destroyed their physical health. Turns out there's a lot of crap and demands that I couldn't get behind in this field, and it made me burn out eventually. Can't exactly complain, at least it's not physically straining. And I have a partner with a steady income that can provide for me right now. But it still sucks you know? I've been trying to look at alternative jobs I'd enjoy more: 3D artist? Illustrator? Concept artist? All seem nice, but not exactly the most accessible at the moment, and now there's AI you have to compete with too. I've decided to stay in my field, for now at least, have finally regain some self assurance to look for a job again. It's hard though, I can feel that there's a lot of competition, and again, also AI.

And this is what I wanted to say: I'm not alone. Many, many, many artists are like me. Struggling: emotionally, physically, financially, as I'm sure some of your are too. I hope it gets better for you!

But for artists it's not just those risks alone, it's also the constant rejection of "not being good enough for anyone". Not in the sense of talent or skill (although, you know, that too), but in the sense that no matter who it is, it seems no one wants to accept artists for what they provide or the way (any way) they go about doing it. THIS is the thing that frustrates me the most out of all the things I've been saying. I know no one here does it out of malice, but no matter the intention, know that rejecting people's ability to own their craft, even through monetization, is also a form of rejection towards their talent, but more importantly the person they are. It sends the message that "You should've been talented in areas that actually can provide for you" – which is the most capitalistic thing one can say.

Value doesn't come from uniqueness, or the ability to do it all, or even making things perfects. It's the value that it gives others, that thing that makes you go "Yes, I appreciate this piece of CC from this creator because I needed it". It's not "value" in the sense of "the amount of time spent creating it = the amount of money I charge", but the sentimental value it brings to your games. We all have that one mod or CC we can't play without.

Of course one can always donate, and that's fair. If you are a creator who prefers that, because doing it otherwise makes you feel weird, that's ok. But please, don't shame people for wanting to open up a few more doors to be able to sustain themselves. As long as it's optional, which again, also includes Patreon and other such tier-based subscriptions as long as they ultimately become public.

Sure, some creators abuse their privilege, we don't like that, I get it. But don't punish the reasonable people over the issues others create, it's unfair. And on top of that, those who do abuse their creator privilege always end up exposing themselves, one way or another. Like Pooklet said, the community knows well to sever their ties to those people anyway, like it already happened in the past. And no matter what you say or do, they will always keep doing it.

In the end, the only ones who suffer are those who, for fear of being rejected, bullied or just seen as an evil "sidehustler", won't ever attempt to start asking for supporters, when their content could give so much value to the community as a whole.

I'll end this by giving my unpopular opinion on TS4-side of things over this matter: I like that creators are getting supported by the community, even if it means I have to wait for it. The quality of downloadable CC made by the community is just crazy! Not that TS2 creations aren't, but there's entire sets getting released monthly, or at least very regularly. Creations that are very well made. Yes, there's also monstrosities in terms of polycount and stuff like that. But that's part of the fun of finding and following the creators you like. I mean, look at Sentate! Their creations have been enjoyed by our community for so long now: the Emma boots, the Sentate Pumps ; how many shoe-swaps have been made to have those? And as someone who still follows them, and uses their creations in my TS4 saves, I can see the passion and the joy they put into the items they release regularly. Is that so weird to want to support them for it?

I'm not saying we should expect the same, or even want the same, things TS4 community has. There's also a lot of bad stuff on their side after all. But what I'm saying is, there's room to cultivate a community culture where there's balance and room for both free and Patreon creators. I think as a smaller community, that balance is even easier to achieve.

---

And I think I will leave it at that!

If you read this whole thing, congrats! It's the end of it! I hope I was able to express my thoughts well, and that it's clear I'm trying to put a bit of perspective into this discussion.

And as a member of TS2 community, I really think there shouldn't be such a taboo over this. There's good in supporting artists we love, of which I include CC creators into like I've said in the past.

Maybe reach out if you want to talk more about it? Idk, there's still so much more I could go on about lol

Anyway, thanks for reading!

A quick-ish guide to the culture of The Sims 2 modding community.

Are you new to The Sims 2 community? Are you coming from more modern games, either in The Sims franchise itself or other contemporary games? Are you excited to start your #brand and become a #simfluencer and post your #earlyaccesscontent to support your #sidehustle?

Have a seat, then! Let's chat.

Hello, friend! My name's Pooklet. I've been playing since 2004 and creating since 2007. I'm by no means an expert in most forms of content creation itself, but I've been around since the heyday of The Sims 2, I've watched how community opinions have shifted (or not) since practically the beginning, and I'm hoping to give you a basic outline of the community culture that you can expect to encounter as a newcomer.

A very brief history of Sims 2 content monetization:

People have been trying to monetize content since there has been content to monetize, all the way back in the days of The Sims 1. We tend to call them "pay creators" and their websites "paysites." Some big names in this arena include The Sims Resource (their free-with-ads model is a relatively recent development, which is why you will find people to this day calling them T$R), PeggySims, Newsea, and many others that you can find on this handy website:

Paysites Must Be Destroyed

Now, if you have a glance at that website, you might be saying to yourself:

"But, that's illegal! I own the copyright to my custom content!"

Alas, no! Due to the wording of the End User License Agreement for The Sims 2, no custom content creator owns their creations for this game (or The Sims 1, or 3, or 4, for that matter, but we're talking about 2 right now). It all belongs to EA at the end of the day, and by installing and playing the game, you have agreed to these terms. Which means you have no individual, protected copyright, and it is perfectly legal for someone to download your paywalled content and then reupload it for free for others to enjoy. And they will!

Furthermore,

You are not making anything alone.

Everything from modding resources, to tutorials, to the mods required to fix disastrous glitches in the game code and make it playable at all, to the third party programs used to make any and all custom content, such as SimPE—all of these have been provided to you for free by other creators, many of whom have a usage policy that asks that people not use their freely-provided tools to make a profit. Although no one can be forced to follow a creator's policy, it is generally considered good manners to not try to make a profit off of someone else's free work. And if you are using these tools to make paywalled content, that's exactly what you're doing.

Pay creators have been ignoring these policies since the beginning of time, and so free creators likewise ignore their policies against sharing their paywalled content. Pay creators have also tried lots of different ways to keep their content exclusive, everything from trying to track leaks with slightly altered files to actively filling their content with malicious code. It has never worked.

Free creators have always found a way around these barriers. In fact, it's taken as something of a challenge to undermine monetization efforts. As you can see from Paysites Must Be Destroyed, there are entire teams of players devoted to reuploading paywalled content for free.

A culture of sharing.

The Sims 2 is something of a time capsule. At 20 years old, it predates a lot of the hyper-capitalist hustle culture that has infested every creative hobby. It is from a time when monetization was an outlier rather than the norm, and a much maligned outlier at that. This attitude has persisted for 20 years. Believe me when I say, you won't be the combo breaker. Especially now, given that The Sims 2 is not the most contemporary in the series and the community has shrunk considerably, down to the people who have either been here for a very long time, or newcomers that understand the community culture.

Also, it's just kind of not a great idea in general to try to make money off of a 20-year-old game with a pretty small community?

Like, I get that The Sims 4 is really saturated with pay creators and it's hard to get a foot in the door. I get that you might look at The Sims 2 and think that the small pond will give you room to be a big fish. It won't. You might get a handful of people willing to pay for your content, but at least one of those people will be resharing it for free.

Paywalls vs. optional donations.

Okay, so hopefully you now understand why people don't like it when you put content behind a paywall. But what about those Ko-fi and Paypal donation links you sometimes see at the bottom of people's downloads? Why is that okay, but a locked Patreon tier isn't? Well, because they're voluntary. No one is obligated to pay for that content to be able to download and use it. It's just a way for someone who does have a little extra cash to basically "tip" a creator whose content they like. You have no way of knowing whether the person who posts those links is actually receiving any donations. And that's kind of the point. Whether or not they receive any donations, they are still sharing their content, because they enjoy the hobby of making and sharing content.

"I can't make a living off of that!"

No, you can't. Because that's not what we do here. That is not part of our community culture for all the above reasons. If you want to make a reliable income off of your hobby, you're going to need to get a different hobby. Try Second Life! That is a community that actively encourages monetization. The Sims 4 allows for "early access" monetization. There's options out there for you, if what you want is to make a profit off of your creations for a game.

"Fine, what about monetized link forwarding services?"

Link forwarding services historically have malicious trackers or viruses embedded. People will also strip those and provide direct links to each other. Or they just won't download your content.

"What if I want to make YouTube videos of someone else's written tutorials and I enable ad revenue on them?"

Personally, I still think that's a dick move. I love video tutorials, I'm a very visual learner myself, and although you might feel entitled to compensation for reciting the steps of someone else's tutorial into a microphone and then editing and uploading the video, you're still monetizing someone else's freely-provided content. I would consider this an 'ask permission' scenario, one in which you tell the person, explicitly, that you will be making ad revenue off their work. If they're fine with that, then you're good! (For the record, I'm not fine with that.)

edit: more of of my thoughts on monetized youtube videos over here.

"What if—"

Look, no one can stop you from trying to monetize your content, or worse, someone else's content. But you will have the exact same arc as every pay creator who came before you: your efforts will be undermined at every turn, your reception in the greater community will be chilly at best, and it will become a battle between you and the folks resharing free reuploads of your content until any fun you initially had making content is gone.

"The steady erosion of every known social safety net beneath the crippling weight of end-stage, line-goes-up capitalism and the yawning abyss of poverty over which I am dangling has imbued me with such anxiety that I cannot engage with a hobby that precludes monetization. I am exhausted. I know no other way."

I get it, friend! I have lived in poverty all my life. I do not begrudge the impulse to find a way to make passive income off of your every waking moment. Increasingly, it seems like that is the only way to survive! Unfortunately, you will not be able to do that with this specific community. We know that we have something special here, having resisted monetization's encroach for so long, which makes us fight all the more viciously to maintain it. You are entitled to try to find ways to supplement your income, just not here. Personally, I consider that a feature, not a bug.

Bonus Round: Remember, That's Not Just Yours!

I said it earlier, but I want to reiterate: you are not making any TS2 CC alone. You are making it with tools, resources, knowledge and code that people have provided on the condition that they not be used for pay content.

To use myself as an example, "my" hair textures are a blend of resources provided by other creators. Namely, Nouk's original hair texture was edited by Vintage D, which I then further edited over the years, using parts by the creators Ephemera and Helga. It would be extremely shit of me to say "well, I think that the time that I put into my edit is worth money, so I'm charging for it" when the edits that I made would not exist without the work of those people. And it continues on down the line with edits that other people have made of my texture blends and color actions, and the content they make with them.

(If you see someone charging for these, btw, lemme know. I'd love to have a talk with them.)

In closing,

The knowledge base, the resources, the coding required to make any and all working content for The Sims 2 has been compiled for 20 years. Please understand, I'm not trying to denigrate anyone's creativity when I say: you cannot bring anything wholly "new" to TS2 CC-making, something that uses no one else's resources or programs, something you can point to and say "no one helped me with that. I did it all on my own. It is my property." Nor should you aspire to! The fun of The Sims 2 community is to share and share alike, to credit each other for our contributions, to hype each other up and iterate on shared works and resources. We've been doing it for 20 years, and hopefully we'll be doing it for many more! Wanting to be a #simfluencer is utterly antithetical to the community culture. No one is influencing anyone else. You need to leave that shit at the door if you want to be invited in.

TL;DR:

Don't show up to the commie circle-jerk trying to charge for handjobs. We're already giving them to each other for free, and nothing about your wrist technique is special enough to justify the cost.

#reblog #sims community #pooklet #this was a long one #but i had to get it out of my system lol

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