margaretkart

[margaretkart]

Tbh the only person I’d trust to do an Iliad musical well is Dave Malloy

I am sorry i don't know who this person is or his works :') even if he's good at his job i don't think there's a reason for an iliad musical

I have a theory now Jorge speeds things up to catch up the new fresh fame over Epic but i believe this will get out of hand, because rushing things especially in high productions results in mistakes and doesn't feel genuine while creating about an ancient epic

At this point i honestly believe these industries want to dry the recent popularity of the myths ,especially Homer's works have been poorly handled recently. Let them rest at this point

[margaretkart]

Most upvoted comment I saw under the Illiad Musical announcement was people saying it should end where Epic starts and... do people know anything about the Illiad? It doesn't even reach Achilles' death. Sure, Jorge changed a lot about the odyssey, I expect changes here, but. He didn't change the end. And adding more content to an already looong story that will inevitably demand big cuts and changes to fit the pacing and medium seems to just be a handicap. I love EPIC, I love the original greek myths but sometimes the fandom bothers me, even if this is an extremely tame example

(that aside, it saddens me to see Jorge already jumping to another musical and that epic is just done when a concept album still had more room to grow and change into a better final product with feedback from the community, but I guess it's just done and while it's pretty good and maybe great it will not be as perfect as it could)

Some people who spread misinformation about Homer's epics mention specific "sources" such as Troy, and Miller's the song of achilles, which proves the lack of knowledge they know about those things

While everyone has free will to enjoy whatever they want, there's a need to remind people that the source material will never be modern adaptations. They are an idea, something to enjoy, but never to make it part of the original or "surpass" it.

Because those myths are ancient, so there's a huge difference when it comes to cultural differences, history gap, technological and societal evolution. So when people claim their knowledge is retellings or modern adaptations they are unitentionally erasing Greek history and the whole point of old stories being preserved

[margaretkart]

A bit derivative, but I never understood this obsession with hating characters because they have different morals than ours or are even morally reprehensible in their context. It's narrative, there has to be a conflict, there has to be humanity, and I find it more questionable for a character set in the past to have current morals than the other way around. If I read fantasy, a classic or historical novel, I want to read about people from the past/fantasy, not someone with current sensibilities. By that rule, almost any novel over 50 years old would be dismissed. And about the new versions, I must say that, taking it as something separate, I was able to enjoy Epic; it just seemed so alien to me that I took them as something of it own. I often think I hate that tupe of stories more for the simplification they represent for fans than anything else.

I don't understand it either but i believe it's something that has evolved from the moment fandoms appeared. Not that they are bad, but there's a pattern of people over analysing characters and arguing with others even though something was made from an author, they try to alter it to fit their values, something that's evident in the greek myths online.

It's an interesting case what happens when things escalate, literacy fails, combined with the hyper fixation of fictional characters on a personal level. In greek mythology there's the lack of respecting the ancient culture that produced these myths that became so beloved and how they are still part of one's country.

[margaretkart]

This EU initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state.

Specifically, the initiative seeks to prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher.

The initiative does not seek to acquire ownership of said videogames, associated intellectual rights or monetization rights, neither does it expect the publisher to provide resources for the said videogame once they discontinue it while leaving it in a reasonably functional (playable) state.

Please click the link and sign! We are halfway there!

And if you are not in the EU please share! This may affect our ownership of games and media worldwide!

[margaretkart]

I have seen that there's gonna be an Iliad musical however there are some obvious things that should be stated here:

Don’t tag the musical with general "Greek mythology" hashtags

Don’t treat the musical (or any adaptation) as canon.

Don’t ignore Homer

Don’t treat ancient myths like fanfic playgrounds without context

Don’t romanticize or mischaracterize characters without understanding their role

Don’t reduce the Trojan War to a love triangle

Don’t ignore the cultural and religious weight of the text

Don’t pretend the musical will cover everything (or should)

Don’t gatekeep, but do encourage nuanced engagement

Don’t use the musical to push modern agendas without care

[margaretkart]

Greek gods wedding headcannons?

Ohhh yes 😍 i will make one for Zeus/Hera , Dionysus/ Ariadne , Hades and Persephone specifically (Poseidon and Amphitrite a more grand underwater one maybe, we know how it went for Aphrodite and Hephaestus)

Zeus and Hera

As THE couple of Olympus there's no denying how lavish everything would be

But aside from the decorations we know that Hera would want everything to be perfect for the day

Maybe she would even try to adjust her make up and clothes with the help of many servants

Zeus of course spoiling everything for her, the biggest event in history, he would want everyone to adore and worship his new wife

Think of it as a large round table filled with goods, constantly being refilled so no one complains. On the side of every corner gifts from the guests, cold, clothes, jewellery everything spread because they wouldn't have any room to fill them in the end

Zeus would make sure his wife is well, having a good time and showing his adoration he has for her

Fact that their honeymoon lasted 300 years so imagine how much their wedding was

Dionysus and Ariadne

I can picture Ariadne being very nervous over it especially knowing that no one from her family in crete would show up to her wedding, she would maybe feel a little mournful over this especially knowing it's her special day

Maybe even feeling pressured knowing she's about to marry an Olympian and become an immortal

I imagine their wedding would look exactly like Dionysus. Grapevines, intoxicated, dizzy. Overwhelming but beautiful that would calm her nerves

Dionysus would of course hold her hand throughout this especially seeing his beloved drinking ambrosia, a step that alters forever her life and would definitely be too much for her, so he would reassure her.

In their wedding there would be frantic dances from everyone especially from his Maenads and satyrs

Imagine these two also dancing

The wedding wouldn't stop for over a month, continuing from Olympus to his own house possibly one of the many across Greece

Them in a chariot followed by his people with happy songs praising Ariadne, surely he would want everything to make his starlight happy

Hades and Persephone

One of the most "quite" weddings

After eating the pomegranate ,her fate forever changed i don't think much else would take place

Maybe Hades would host a grand celebration with people that would be on the underworld (thanatos, hecate, hermes even) but maybe it would feel more toned down, compared to other weddings

When Persephone first would ascent from the underworld many would congratulate her on her marriage, some nymphs even organising a festive to her name, beautiful, filled with flowers since it's spring, warm and lively

I doubt Demeter would want to attend however but she would want to support her daughter, knowing her union with Hades wasn't from a right start to begin with, she would act with a calm demeanor

In her descent Hades to make up for the lost time after their marriage would like to spend as much time with her, giving her presents, making her feel like she belongs as a queen worthy of respect.

[margaretkart]

Saw your post about not tagging the musical adaptation with greek mythology tag and now I'm sweating, because sometimes I'm doing fanart of a character and use both tags....

I know, that I could look ignorant, but sometimes I see tagamemnon tag, and as far as I researched it's a tag for "general classics fandom", but ..

I would be very happy, jf you could help me to understand: Is it's ok to use it with arts of Greek Gods/etc (obvious not with epic musical tag), because I usually see it under serious things and I'm kinda scared afraid to use it under my silly posts

Sorry for troubling you and asking too much at once 🙏🏻

P.S. Like noses on your arts...

Oh anon no need to worry about it, in fact i am very happy you want to learn about it.

Of course you can use the tag for art about the gods and sometimes even in more serious themes a part of posting for laughs is welcome.

That said no need to worry! my only concern is when in general people use the tag for spreading misinformation online about the myths of mix it with other fandoms that are inspired by the myths, which confuses the tags even more, losing their meaning in the process.

Thank you for the compliment btw 😊! I am glad of your support and in any other questions don't hesitate to ask

[margaretkart]

I'm honestly really disappointed to hear about the upcoming musical even though I think most of us knew that it would happen... I agree with you in that I wish people would keep retelling-specific stuff in those respective tags and NOT the ones for Homer and his works, because some of us just want to talk about the classics and not engage with retellings. Not to mention that if people are curious about the classics and want to look into those tags to learn more, seeing retelling content there just spreads misinformation, since these retellings are far from accurate representations.

I honestly don't understand why they refuse to acknowledge the ancient tales that inspired those retellings to begin with. Since they want to engage with the myths the bare minimum is to do research over them. For example look at some paragraphs from Homer:

"Like the generations of leaves, the lives of mortal men. Now the wind scatters the old leaves across the earth, now the living timber bursts with the new buds and spring comes round again. And so with men: as one generation comes to life, another dies away."

"Let me not then die ingloriously and without a struggle, but let me first do some great thing that shall be told among men hereafter".

"And fate? No one alive has ever escaped it, neither brave man nor coward, I tell you— it’s born with us the day that we are born."

"Hateful to me as the gates of Hades is that man who hides one thing in his heart and speaks another"

Beautifully written, steeped with lyrics of death, decay, war showing us what ancient Greeks felt and thought when in times of war. No adaptation can top it, not even catchy songs to a musical. So instead of people trying to "make it for the modern audience" , they should read the original myths and get a bigger picture over the importance of them

[margaretkart]

Perseus anon. That is a good point! Their life after that is a nice change instead of "fixing" them. Thank you for that input! I would love to tell what happened with them after that. I had more ideas, but that was one I wanted to mention I had. I really appreciate it :) I will keep that in mind.

I am glad i could help you with that! If you have any other ideas please feel free to DM me

[margaretkart]

Same anon who said not wanting to write a greek retelling. But if you insist... ^^; thank you for that encouragement! I would love the Greek perspective on it. It would help very much. I was gonna abandon it, but I would also love to tell you. See, I wanted to do a retelling of Perseus and Andromeda. They are one of my favorite mythological couples. However, I do NOT want to see anymore retellings of Perseus being some bad, evil man while Medusa and Andromeda are girlbosses or helpless who deserve better. I am so sick of the "feminists" claiming they're giving them a voice when they're actually hurting them more. They already had a voice to begin with while Medusa was already a cruel monster. It was gonna be short so far, but I wanted to write more of Perseus and Andromeda while being respectful to the source material and how they were viewed. It's not much yet, but ANYTHING but what we have now.

A nice idea would be to not rewrite about the original myth again like others have done already but make it about this couple what they do AFTER the myth. How's their life after everything, how their relationship unfolds and blossoms. How other struggles Perseus had to face some enemies, Dionysus for example could be a nice add because it's said of them almost clashing out (Nonnus later had them fight in a war)

There's much potential in retellings to expand the relationships instead of "fixing" them. To make stories that highlight key themes in one couple and what made them so special

[margaretkart]

The truth is, I thought about doing a historical fiction or a Greek mythology-inspired story, but after seeing how disrespectful other writers have been with the culture and seeing what an impact it has, I'd rather not add to the flame. I am so tired of seeing the same types of retellings over and over again anyway.

Ah no anon please don't let it discourage you from doing that! Let it inspire you to do better and make something wonderful and new while still making it respectful about the greek myths

Also i would really like to know your ideas of the book and if i can help you with some plot ideas i will be glad to help 🙂‍↕️

[margaretkart]

I was in Homer tag just now so please i would like people in general don't mix Homer, greek mythology and his Epics with the musicals, they have nothing to do with a modern adaptation

SCREAMING, CRYING, THROWING UP

ALL RIGHT MY BROTHERS LISTEN CLOSELY

[margaretkart]

I'm sure you've gotten plenty of these types of asks, so I'm sorry, but I got a bone to pick myself over Greek Mythology retellings. In short, I just feel like so many of them reduce the characters into "men are all evil while women are all victims" while ignoring the cultural and religious impact on society and the complexity of the mythological figures. I've read some myself, and I just gave up after a while. It reeks colonization of Greek stories, really.

There's no need to apologise because people should talk more about these issues of lacking literacy in society an it's consequences.

People shouldn't be afraid defending accuracy and facts especially when some tales and myths are based on a culture from ancient times making it a very special part of human history.

Because those myths were a reflection of this society, people shouldn't judge or hate any character. They should ask : why this character did this? What time period? How was for people back then?

Homer's epics became popular because of the raw portrayal of human nature that still touches many to this day. It's about stories where humans grief, hope, lash out, make mistakes, forgive, take revenge. It's everything about how humans despite time separating us we still relate to their struggles and how they react to tough circumstances.

There's beauty in different cultures. There's beauty in history. There's beauty in what humans crafted and let their legacy on this planet. People shouldn't reduce the importance of the tales because they are part of a culture, so all I ask is respect and a healthy understanding community

[margaretkart]

Thank for sharing your interpretation. Laurel wreath i understand a lot of gods and heroes wear it but holding laurel branch is exclusively for Apollo, like holding a thyrsus is Dionysus thing in art. For me it still looks like apollo with a woman but if you have link to that image I'd like to learn more and see if there are any inscriptions that help with identification.

Usually the identification of these two has some similar patterns

The thyrsus, ivy wreath, and draped robes on Dionysus, usually accompanied with an animal especially a leopard in general.

The star-patterned clothing, intimate pairing, and ritual setting indicating Ariadne.

[margaretkart]

How could someone reduce the trojan war to a fricking love triangle ???

Trust me anon i have seen many things people have said about the Iliad 😟

[margaretkart]

I have seen that there's gonna be an Iliad musical however there are some obvious things that should be stated here:

Don’t tag the musical with general "Greek mythology" hashtags

Don’t treat the musical (or any adaptation) as canon.

Don’t ignore Homer

Don’t treat ancient myths like fanfic playgrounds without context

Don’t romanticize or mischaracterize characters without understanding their role

Don’t reduce the Trojan War to a love triangle

Don’t ignore the cultural and religious weight of the text

Don’t pretend the musical will cover everything (or should)

Don’t gatekeep, but do encourage nuanced engagement

Don’t use the musical to push modern agendas without care

[margaretkart]

I was looking through your arr and I had a question

https://www.tumblr.com/margaretkart/785704791224500224/dionysus-in-different-outfits-inspired-by-some?source=share

Isn't the second one Apollo in original painting because there's laurel crown and laurel branch? I'd read that these are Apollo's symbols so I'm curious what reason that you interpreted this as dionysus?

It's based on the pottery of him with Ariadne

Seeing Dionysus wearing a laurel crown is not out of place considering that at Delphi, which is primarily Apollo's sanctuary, Dionysus was also worshipped during the winter months when Apollo was said to leave. During this period, Dionysus "took over" the sanctuary.

Also laurel wreaths also came to symbolize victory and celebration more generally, not only in war or sports, but in theatrical and musical contests, both of which Dionysus presided over as god of theater.