maythevoidnotscreamback

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Ody during the war; change my fuckin' mind!

Odysseus fr

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My personal HC is that Link died young, having saved her from being killed in an accident - IE: runaway carriage - as children while she had no idea who he was, so he couldn't awaken to his Destiny when she went under the spell. He might've been able to survive the encounter/accident but the Old Man who was 'guarding' the Triforce of Courage - which would've bolstered his body's durability or his luck in how he executed his rescue attempt to survive - had somehow taken it from him days beforehand thinking he was saving the boy from future danger, tragedy and/or heartache.

But as said, that's my HC. :) Still, I liked your bit too. That would be so very tragic. More-so then waking up to a 'new' world that she might have to now rule depending on how one HCs the Succession Rules. Like, are they that it goes to First-Born Child or to First Girl? Or would it be that, like in my HC, Zelda was also the First-born and of the Goddess's Bloodline but time and repetition and rewriting the History Books made out as though the brother - born of the second marriage that wasn't of the Goddess's Bloodline - was the older one between them when he wasn't?

In which case, depending your own HCs, will the Zelda of the first game be ousted as being of the Brother's Line, to which has been Ruling since his sister was cursed, or will it be that the Zelda of the second game is the one who is ousted? Because either way, one could say that one of them now has no purpose they once had as an unintentionally Deposed/Exiled-Queen-to-be that they had been raised thinking otherwise?

Did that last sentence even make sense or...? Anyway... hopefully you're not too mad at me for high-jacking your post.

So the sleeping Zelda in Adventure of Link, she was asleep for a very long unspecified amount of time, right? So long many generations had passed until we get to the iteration of Link and Zelda from from the first game - so everyone she knew before she was cursed to sleep is long dead.

So I raise the question: do you think in her era pre-sleep she had a Link? A Link due to whatever circumstance failed to save her? A Link that just wasn't capable of the rough challenges it would take to wake her? Who maybe died during those trials or lived out the rest of his life in regret that he couldn't do anything? Or is it something more simple, more tragic, that he just... never woke up to his Destiny calling? Personally I like the angsty Zelink route (but that shouldn't surprise anyone) because it reframes the ending a bit.

Zelda just waking up, having no idea how much time as truly passed or the hardships her kingdom has went through the past centuries, no idea her brother and everyone she ever knew is gone, she wakes up seeing Link thinking he is HER Link and that makes the whole sudden kiss make more sense to happen so suddenly if she knew her pass Link and had something with him honestly more tragic. She thought he was him and probably was really embarrassed when she realized he wasn't.

Imagine having the news broken to you that everything and everyone you knew is gone, you were asleep this whole time so passage of time you don't feel so it feels like yesterday your brother was lashing out on you and ultimately having the curse placed on you by his wizard attendant(?) but now here you are meeting the hero that is not your own and your brother's descendant, the reincarnation of yourself because being asleep that long you might as well have been dead. But you're awake now, how were you supposed to process all of this?

I know obviously classic Nintendo games the story was never the focus or meant to be that complicated but I think looking back with current modern knowledge how you can make things so interesting and find story potential. I don't think Nintendo will go back and further establish the post Zelda 2 part of the downfall timeline but the fact it ends with two Zeldas being alive at the same time so interesting I wish there could be a way to further develop that idea.

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Thank you for the acknowledgement and validation! Thing is, there's also someone - and I agree with them - on ao3 who doesn't agree with your assessment of "Tsuna looked at the before and after pictures and went, ‘I honestly am just happy that I have friends now’. He wouldn’t change anything about meeting Reborn and subsequent events, not because they made his life significantly better, in fact quite the opposite, but because it gave him a support group."

Essentially, yes, he has them now but it's not like he'd never have a support group later. A small example would be "I've Already Found me" by Seito on Ao3. As you also said, "The Vongola and the Mafia need Tsuna, because he is the Sky that introduces us to them, but the sky is still the sky even if the sun, rain, clouds, storm, mist, and lightning are all gone." Just because he doesn't have access to his Flames, doesn't mean they're not there. Or that others won't be drawn into his sphere. People who actually get along with him because their goals or interests or sense of companionship align with his own and they also get along because of them. No fighting to survive, no impending loss of personhood, or having to worry about being killed for being himself or his blood.

It's one of the reasons I hate reading certain fics - though they're excellently written otherwise - where Tsuna's childhood or personality or what-have-you are different one way or another and he still brings the same Guardian Candidates into his sphere; I hate such shoe-horning when there are other candidates one can find by use of OCs or the Reborn wiki. There's a fic where - if you don't mind not having certain contexts to why if you aren't willing to read the accompanying Main Fic that's an HP X-over "Black Sky" - the author, Umei no Mai on FFN, does some 'deep-diving', depending on one's definition, of the given canon called "Yesterday's Tomorrow" that gets one thinking of just how much some of his Guardians don't work with him while also giving reasons for others that do. They also have another fic, involving the Varia instead called "Bolt from the Blue" that's an AU from the other two mentioned fics, that essentially does the same thing but also gives the Varia as a whole more character depth than what canon could give us within the constraints of the medium. All of them can be dense reads though so I understand if others don't want to read them.

Anyway! So long as there's no hard-and-fast proof they're a specific type of Flame, one can use one of the "colorless" characters already available or depending on how the characters interact simply pick and choose already Flamed characters that would fit much easier and better with Tsuna in fic AUs. Like, yes, as you said, he began and ended the series practically unchanged but that doesn't mean, once he has a reason to do otherwise, that he won't later. Life doesn't have a 'can't change that ever' stopper - if that makes sense - until a person's dies.

My outrage given voice: Tsuna owes Vongola jack-all!

Seriously. All Vongola’s done is turn his world upside down.

His father hadn’t been seen or heard from, at least to his knowledge, for so long (two whole years, according to Tsuna) he thought him dead before finding out that he’s alive and well as the head of CEDEF. And he’d never have found out otherwise if Vongola hadn’t come along, or more specifically if the three heirs hadn’t been killed off. Like, the guy told Nana to tell Tsuna that he’d gone off to “become a star” which could have a lot of connotations to Tsuna but he chose to believe the guy had died. Like, granted, it could be considered callous that Tsuna never thought that Nana would’ve been hella more depressed if Iemitsu was dead if she really loved him as much as they portrayed but you gotta remember that the kid is embarrassed, not mortified or even hurt, when Nana calls him Dame (pronounced dah-may, not daym goddammit!) in his presence to his crush. He was probably of the opinion that Nana, if she was told, had gone into denial that Iemitsu was dead to the point of delusion, using whatever life insurance he had to keep them in comfort, because she’s mentally unsound in some manner or another and he didn’t want to make his house feel uncomfortable by trying to get her to ‘snap out of it’. Or, alternatively, he’d rather the guy was dead than having run off on he and his mother for whatever reason. It probably hurt less to think that way.

“Well, what about his friends?” I hear you ask. “Sit down, shut up and let me tell you.” I’d reply.

Yamamoto only started to take notice of him ‘cause of Reborn’s DW Bullet shenanigans and even then the incident with the roof, something I’ve seen others acknowledge as inevitable, - check out FFN's Reidluver's "It's a Mafia Life" for one such example - something that would’ve happened even without Tsuna’s ‘advice’, might’ve simply ended with the kid dead. Yes, Hibari might’ve been able to prevent it if only to keep the school’s reputation intact but the fact that Reborn had to shoot Tsuna twice to keep them both alive even with Tsuna buying time by talking to him, that they fell cause of the shitty fence, instead of an air mattress for just such occasions means that Hibari might not have been able to prevent Yamamoto’s death. Maybe by catching him as some people (Reidluver) would write but that would all depend on how the guy fell. He was planning to jump/let himself fall, meaning he’d be going down head first, if not in some form of belly flop, so Hibari catching him could’ve led to further injury for Yamamoto, serious injury for Hibari, a comatose state or even paralyzation if not death for one or both of them. As much as Hibari is acknowledged as the Demon Prefect, he's still a human being who hasn't ignited his Flames by that point. But Fanfic will be fanfic.

Hibari only cared for him as a student of his school and nothing more. He was the Chairman of the Disciplinary Committee and yet the only times people were punished it was over stupid stuff. Like crowding, uniform violations and noise. Or just annoying the guy. Not bullying, abuse of authority and/or lack of academic support. In a school he was supposed to be "making better" by taking over; however that's meant to be taken.

Gokudera only became aware of him because he was the Decimo-to-be and even then that was because Reborn called him in to ‘test’ him. If not for that, Gokudera wouldn’t have even been in Namimori in the first place, most likely would’ve never gone to Japan at all unless for a job or to honor his mother’s side of his heritage. Lambo’s almost the same in that he was literally following Reborn so if he wasn’t there Lambo wouldn’t have been either. I-pin was there for a job and was only allowed to stay because Fon trusted Reborn to look after her as part of Tsuna’s house guests. Fuuta also only went to Tsuna because the Decimo-to-be, after the other candidates were killed off, is “number one unable to refuse requests”. Same thing with Haru, she only became interested in Tsuna because she saw him with Reborn and even then she was of the opinion he was being a strange type of abusive toward the 'baby' that hung around him.

Ryohei didn’t even know he existed until, just like Yamamoto, he saw Tsuna do something amazing while under Bullet Influence. His sister, Kyoko, was aware of him but only as Dame-Tsuna and even then she didn’t really do anything but look cute. I don’t think we have any proper evidence that Kyoko ever interacted with Tsuna before that day Reborn showed up. That Dame-Tsuna could have gained that crush on her because of the Idol/Celebrity Effect, not because she helped him or was nice to him once or twice. She was cute, she seemed kind from a distance, she was popular, she was too good for him but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t admire her from afar. That’s what he’d been doing for a while and while he got demotivated when he found out she might be ‘taken’ by Mochida, that’s not that uncommon for other people to do. He wouldn’t be the first and he’ll never be the last. It’s only because of Reborn that she even wanted to be his friend, which could’ve been because of the whole ‘he tore Mochida’s hair out during their “duel”’ so she might’ve thought to use him to keep others away when Hana couldn’t. Like, just because someone seems nice or kind doesn’t mean that’s their true face or nature, as pessimistic as that outs me to be.

Chrome would’ve simply been dead. No if’s, and’s, or but’s about it. She only survived because of Mukuro. Who only went ‘looking’ for her because he was in a Vendicare Isolation/Sensory Deprivation Tank. And even then, that’s only because he was caught escaping a second time, to get Ken and Chikusa out while acting as bait, after Tsuna had defeated him after the first time he broke out. If Mukuro hadn’t gone after Tsuna, didn’t need to because of a combination of Fuuta asking for his protection and the Ninth’s sons being dead, he might’ve stayed free with his group or found himself killed before long. I say ‘might’ve’ because once he’d fought against people who actually knew what to do with their own DW he might’ve been discouraged with his plans but then... he might not’ve too. Who knows? I certainly don't.

Xanxus might've stayed in the ice until one of his 'brothers' had succeeded Nono. That is, if he weren't killed off, of course, due to would-be/might-be prevention of a later threat depending on what their actual relationships were like. 'Cause we don't know how the Vongola Bros felt for one another. Were they good to each other; for a given definition when in regards to the mafia? Power-hungry? Uninterested in the Throne? Did they love one another or were biding their time or indifferent toward one another or just plain rivals that respected one another? As said, we don't know. It's speculation and HCs whenever they come up in various fics. And we don't know what might've happened to his Guardians in the Varia in such circumstance either. They might've tried fighting, or laying low or they might've died trying or just so there wasn't another coup under the new Don's reign. Who knows?!

Reborn's a freelancer, so if he'd never even known about Tsuna, let alone met him to tutor him, he'd never get out from under his shared curse. Just died from it, if not in a blaze of glory as a final 'fuck you' to the System if not The Man in the Iron Hat as the Arco knew him as. Said System might have even continued passed the current generation of Arcobaleno if Tsuna hadn't been made aware of his... connections in regards to his blood.

The Shimon probably would've never come out of their Isolation/Obscurity as a Family; because the reason they even got their Long Lost Rings back - their power source that's apparently stronger than a third of the Tri-ni-Sette, one of three corner stones to the continuation of All Life on Earth! (just... what?!) - is due to the shenanigans with the Ten Year Bazooka. They'd never have learned their own history/origins - or even that Daemon Spade was alive and the reason a good portion of their Family was dead - if not for that.

TLDR: I really wish people would stop making Tsuna a pussy in regards to his friends. Specifically those moments where 'you'd be nothing without Vongola' might come up when he tries to live his life the way he wants to live it. Because it's blatantly not true. What I've put above are just bits and pieces, I'm sure others can find more, of why it's not Tsuna who needs Vongola/the Mafia, but that it's Vongola/the Mafia which needs Tsuna.

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My outrage given voice: Tsuna owes Vongola jack-all!

Seriously. All Vongola’s done is turn his world upside down.

His father hadn’t been seen or heard from, at least to his knowledge, for so long (two whole years, according to Tsuna) he thought him dead before finding out that he’s alive and well as the head of CEDEF. And he’d never have found out otherwise if Vongola hadn’t come along, or more specifically if the three heirs hadn’t been killed off. Like, the guy told Nana to tell Tsuna that he’d gone off to “become a star” which could have a lot of connotations to Tsuna but he chose to believe the guy had died. Like, granted, it could be considered callous that Tsuna never thought that Nana would’ve been hella more depressed if Iemitsu was dead if she really loved him as much as they portrayed but you gotta remember that the kid is embarrassed, not mortified or even hurt, when Nana calls him Dame (pronounced dah-may, not day-m goddammit!) in his presence to his crush. Not to mention, being a teen, he might not have the emotional maturity to parse such things; it could've been different if he ever saw him as a full-grown man. As it is, he was probably of the opinion that Nana, if she was told, had gone into denial that Iemitsu was dead to the point of delusion, using whatever life insurance he had to keep them in comfort, because she’s mentally unsound in some manner or another and he didn’t want to make his house feel uncomfortable by trying to get her to ‘snap out of it’. Or, alternatively, he’d rather the guy was dead than having run off on he and his mother for whatever reason he might or might not have had. It probably hurt less - if he wasn't indifferent by that point - to think that way.

“Well, what about his friends?” I hear you ask. “Sit down, shut up and let me tell you.” I’d reply.

Yamamoto only started to take notice of him ‘cause of Reborn’s DW Bullet shenanigans and even then the incident with the roof, something I’ve seen others acknowledge as inevitable, - check out FFN's Reidluver's "It's a Mafia Life" for one such example - something that would’ve happened even without Tsuna’s ‘advice’, might’ve simply ended with the kid dead. Yes, Hibari might’ve been able to prevent it if only to keep the school’s reputation intact but the fact that Reborn had to shoot Tsuna twice to keep them both alive even with Tsuna buying time by talking to him, that they fell cause of the shitty fence, instead of an air mattress for just such occasions means that Hibari might not have been able to prevent Yamamoto’s death. Maybe by catching him as some people (Reidluver) would write but that would all depend on how the guy fell. He was planning to jump/let himself fall, meaning he’d be going down head first, if not in some form of belly flop, so Hibari catching him could’ve led to further injury for Yamamoto, serious injury for Hibari, a comatose state or even paralyzation if not death for one or both of them. As much as Hibari is acknowledged as the Demon Prefect, he's still a human being who hasn't ignited his Flames by that point. But Fanfic will be fanfic so...

Hibari only cared for him as a student of his school and nothing more. He was the Chairman of the Disciplinary Committee and yet the only times people were punished it was over stupid stuff. Like crowding, uniform violations and noise. Or just annoying the guy. Not bullying, abuse of authority and/or lack of academic support. In a school he was supposed to be "making better" by taking over; however that's meant to be taken.

Gokudera only became aware of him because he was the Decimo-to-be and even then that was because Reborn called him in to ‘test’ him. If not for that, Gokudera wouldn’t have even been in Namimori in the first place, most likely would’ve never gone to Japan at all unless for a job or to honor his mother’s side of his heritage. Lambo’s almost the same in that he was literally following Reborn so if he wasn’t there Lambo wouldn’t have been either. I-pin was there for a job and was only allowed to stay because Fon trusted Reborn to look after her as part of Tsuna’s house guests. Fuuta also only went to Tsuna because the Decimo-to-be, after the other candidates were killed off, is “number one unable to refuse requests”. Same thing with Haru, she only became interested in Tsuna because she saw him with Reborn and even then she was of the opinion he was being a strange type of abusive toward the 'baby' that hung around him.

Sasagawa didn’t even know he existed until, just like Yamamoto, he saw Tsuna do something amazing while under Bullet Influence. His sister, Kyoko, was aware of him but only as Dame-Tsuna and even then she didn’t really do anything but look cute. I don’t think we have any proper evidence that Kyoko ever interacted with Tsuna before that day Reborn showed up. That Dame-Tsuna could have gained that crush on her because of the Idol/Celebrity Effect, not because she helped him or was nice to him once or twice. She was cute, she seemed kind from a distance, she was popular, she was "too good for him" but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t admire her from afar. That’s what he’d been doing for a while and while he got demotivated when he found out she might be ‘taken’ by Mochida, that’s not that uncommon for other people to do. He wouldn’t be the first and he’ll never be the last to experience such a thing in the world. It’s only because of Reborn that she even wanted to be his friend, which could’ve been because of the whole ‘he tore Mochida’s hair out during their “duel”’ so she might’ve thought to use him to keep others away when Hana couldn’t. Like, just because someone seems nice or kind doesn’t mean that’s their true face or nature, as pessimistically paranoid as that outs me to be.

Chrome would’ve simply been dead. No if’s, ands, or buts about it. She only survived because of Mukuro. Who only went ‘looking’ for her because he was in a Vendicare Isolation/Sensory Deprivation Tank. And even then, that’s only because he was caught escaping a second time, to get Ken and Chikusa out while acting as bait, after Tsuna had defeated him after the first time he broke out. If Mukuro hadn’t gone after Tsuna, didn’t need to because of a combination of Fuuta asking for his protection and the Ninth’s sons being dead, he might’ve stayed free with his group or found himself killed before long. I say ‘might’ve’ because once he’d fought against people who actually knew what to do with their own DW he might’ve been discouraged with his plans but then... he might not’ve too. Who knows? I certainly don't.

Xanxus might've stayed in the ice until one of his 'brothers' had succeeded Nono. That is, if he weren't killed off, of course, due to would-be/might-be prevention of a later threat depending on what their actual relationships were like. 'Cause we don't know how the Vongola Bros felt for one another. Were they good to each other; for a given definition when in regards to the mafia? Power-hungry? Uninterested in the Throne? Did they love one another or were biding their time or indifferent toward one another or just plain rivals that respected one another? As said, we don't know. It's speculation and HCs whenever they come up in various fics. And we don't know what might've happened to his Guardians in the Varia in such circumstance either. They might've tried fighting, or laying low until they got their Boss back or they might've died for one reason or another because the new Don didn't want to risk another coup - hostage situation only works for so long before something needs to give - under his reign. Who knows?! We don't.

Reborn's a freelancer, so if he'd never even known about Tsuna, let alone met him to tutor him, he'd never get out from under his shared curse. Just died from it, if not in a blaze of glory as a final 'fuck you' to the System if not The Man in the Iron Hat as the Arco knew him as. Said System might have even continued passed the current generation of Arcobaleno if Tsuna hadn't been made aware of his... connections in regards to his blood.

The Shimon probably would've never come out of their Isolation/Obscurity as a Family; because the reason they even got their Long Lost Rings back - their power source that's apparently stronger than a third of the Tri-ni-Sette, one of three corner stones to the continuation of All Life on Earth! (just... what?!) - is due to the shenanigans with the Ten Year Bazooka. They'd never have learned their own history/origins - or even that Daemon Spade was alive and the reason a good portion of their Family was dead - if not for that.

TLDR: I really wish people would stop making Tsuna a pussy in regards to his friends. Specifically those moments where 'you'd be nothing without Vongola' might come up when he tries to live his life the way he wants to live it. Because it's blatantly not true. What I've put above are just bits and pieces, I'm sure others can find more, of why it's not Tsuna who needs Vongola/the Mafia, but that it's Vongola/the Mafia which needs Tsuna.

[maythevoidnotscreamback]

i didnt realise ao3 was started in response to lj deleting account relating to p//edophi|ia and they explicitly support the posting of such works yikes

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This could be @officialmortius and @imcasperfox. We saw your reaction on Ruthlessness! Don't lie! 😘😘😘

And if not?

This is the fandom! I refuse to believe otherwise!

What do you do when faced with the God of the Sea?? You flirt mercilessly

[maythevoidnotscreamback]

Story Idea: Sailor Moon's canon reincarnation wasn't a one and done type of deal

Full disclosure: I was listening to Epic when this beaned into my head at 100mph. I'm also reposting this from discord so... yeah.

Y'know what sends me? The whole reincarnation bit of UsaMamo. Specifically, the HC that the "thousand years" of canon isn't the number it should be. I've seen about three-four authors have a story that speculates on the so called "true" number of years since the fall of the SilMil - after some bits of memory have been regained, of course - and that it was more than "a thousand years ago". With that said, imagine if some of the Olde Stories of Myth from around the world were talking about the life(ves) of the reincarnated Senshi but since the DK wasn't active there was no need for Luna and Artemis to be awakened to, in turn, awaken said Senshi to their roles? Not to mention that they'd probably not be born in sync, not every time, so… yeah. Misfortune or what-have-you depending on the area of the world the story came from. 🤷 🤷 🤷 It would all depend on the person who wishes to take on this idea.

This post was most inspired by the idea that OdyPen (that is, for those who don't know, the story of King Odysseus (<- the mind behind the Trojan Horse) and Queen Penelope of Ancient Grecian Times) is UsaMamo. Though if you agree it is indeed one for one - that is: Ody to Usa and Pen to Mamo instead of the expected Ody to Mamo and Pen to Usa - I'd be tickled so pink. Cuz, y'know, why not? The times in Ancient Greece - and how they grew up because of it - would be different when compared to Modern-day Japan or the peace of the SilMil. Behaviors wouldn't be the same and 'bad habits' would be "trained" out of them depending on the circumstances. Like gender expectations of the time as one example. 🤷 Heck, it could be that how they learned 'back then' is what would work 'now' if not for how the Modern System of Education is supposed to be run. After all, Usa's not dumb, she's just not that good at academic stuff. It could be that how she learns isn't compliant or compatible to the learning environment she has and so... 🤷 🤷 🤷

And! To make it hurt worse if one has it as Usa is Ody in such an AU…

😈 😈 😈

Hotaru/Saturn could have been Astyanax/Scamandrius!

One could also have it that the girls, whether reincarnated as boys or girls, face "tragedy" depending on the myth either because they're not born in sync - HaruMichi - or just that their man is part of the DK so they're given as much a happy ending as could be without their True Lover - the Inners in regards to the Shitennou. (Because I will always ship Sen/Shi and you can't stop me!) Like, using the time of OdyPen for an example, Minako could be Helen. She has Menelaus, the man she chose to wed (the man her - in my version of such an AU, not sure about you - unknowing Princess helped her get peacefully) instead of being chosen for her to marry but she's kidnapped by Paris and subjected to his… 'attentions' for ten years and even after she's rescued doesn't get to see her daughter or homeland until even more time has passed; though obviously not as long as Ody with his child and, even worse, doesn't even have his spouse with him as she does hers.

Like, in such circumstances, don't think of the Senshi in those stories as "Champion(s) or children of {God/dess}" because, remember there are also some people who HC that those same Gods/Goddesses were the Senshi or their progenitors once upon a time. Think of how it would be explained if their feats were more due to their own inherent powers - that don't have an outlet to be used properly like their Pens/Brooch or their current bodies simply didn't have the proper amount of "right" genes, or even having some of the "right" genes depending on how one looks at it, to support their Reincarnated Otherness or Inherent Specialness in regards to Mamo/Dymi - but were attributed to 'this' God/dess or 'that' God/dess depending on the region of the world the story/myth came from. Like the so called "vision" Ody got from Zeus in regards to Astyanax. Or the version of Penelope's origin where she was prevented from drowning as an infant by ducks. It's just a matter of finagling things as the myths of back then have no one source to use, just a point in which it was finally written down.

Ooh! One could even have it be that Patrochilles is HaruMichi! 😍

Whether the other girls are reincarnated at the same time too is up to you but, in such a case, it could be that they're in other parts of the world in such a scenario as what I'm spit-balling. It all depends on how one's inspired. Am I evil or what? 😈 🤭 😘 😈

What do you think? Have I inspired? Please let me know if I have, and one doesn't have to use my bits of idea word for word, and if you've posted and where if so... or if you've seen something sorta like this. I'd love to read it! Thank you for reading.

[maythevoidnotscreamback]

Full disclosure!! I haven't read a single line of the Telegony, and barely remember reading the Odyssey or Iliad; I'm just going by what little I remember and what I've otherwise read others mention or the wiki when I had the spoons to brave it.

That said, the above post is not the only thing I'd have to agree with when mentioning the so-called "sequel" to the Odyssey. Other than the whole "they're written about two centuries apart". It's only one of the reasons I feel that it's (The Telegony) more of a fanfic than a proper sequel. One could even say that it seems like a more 'palatable' version of the Story of Oedipus: son unknowingly kills father and marries mother as told by prophecy, but in this case there is no prophecy and the mother belongs to his half-brother rather than himself. Like, don't get me wrong, I've heard that "Homer" is actually a collective coming together to write down the oral stories of the time and not a truly singular person doing the job, (not to mention the whole 'myths have no singular source' when it was only oral or the different regions factoring into how said myths were told) but I've also heard, if he truly was a "single person", he was said to be blind, (so anything that has to do with sight - like Ody possibly having heterochromia; that is, one eye being one color while the other is a different one - is null and void) but it doesn't stop my opinion being what it is either way.

Like, think about it! What lesson or moral is supposed to be given with it? The Iliad had the whole "love/the gods' favor can be dangerous" referring to The Apple Competition and Paris 'taking' Helen with Aphrodite's assistance, "war is ugly" referring to how the war was fought and the fate of the Trojans/Astyanax(Scamandrius)'s death when the war was won, "the cunning few won the day where the brute-strength of the many was losing for years" referring to how Odysseus (otherwise known as Ulysses to the Romans) and Diomedes stole the Palladium and then the Horse itself being done in a short amount of time despite there being a thousand ships' worth of men (alongside a man who was their strongest (Achilles)) fighting to breach the walls for ten years, and other such things (feel free to add more). The Odyssey had "consequences have actions" that was hammered in again and again, and the "selfishness of man" what with only Odysseus, out of however many men he took with him from his Kingdom, making it home however he could, no matter what, and "sometimes faith is all you have and all you need" with Pen still waiting for her husband for two decades, supposedly due to prophecy, despite all those around her - and also apparently given leave by her husband to do so before he left - telling her to remarry for their own selfish reasons in the guise of "for Ithaca's stability" and other such things (feel free to add more).

What about the Telegony? What's its purpose for, other than to off Ody in 'Typical Greek Tragedy' fashion; especially when his journey home was supposed to be the Tragedy he faced for his hubris? Like, he fought a war he didn't want to fight in for a woman who wasn't his wife, he'd lost all the spoils from said war and the ships loaded with it, was sexually assaulted/coerced by one Goddess/Nymph - Hermes telling him he had to doesn't make it better as far as I'm concerned! If anything, it's like being told by one of two hostage takers Criminal Minds style that for the kidnapped to be let go one of them had to sleep with the 'lead' hostage taker; and for those who make mention of his extended stay, according to MadnBooks from YT, the 'years' were due to some time distortion shenanigans that were only a few days to him/them - to save his men (one who apparently keeps his kid when she finds herself pregnant and raises him to adulthood when she doesn't have to or even have a reason to want to; and then there's the time distortion shenanigans that I don't think were mentioned in regards to 'Gonus) and held prisoner to be sexually assaulted by another, different one for seven years (one who would have reason to birth and raise said child but since this is a post about Circe's supposed child with Ody...), and finally got home alone to find his home being invaded and his once infant son - the son he wanted to raise with his wife but couldn't because of the war he didn't want to fight in for a woman who wasn't his wife - was now a fully grown adult. Why then does he need to die like he supposedly does to 'Gonus when Tiresias also supposedly prophesized his death otherwise? Dying of old age is different to dying at an old age, despite the similar wording - and the reason such clarifying words are a must.

Like, as said, 'Gonus goes on to marry Pen, right, but I ask you... Why? Why would she need to? By that point the age difference would be roughly something like 40-50 years or so, she could be a Grandmother by that point (if there wasn't also a mention that Tele marries Circe, his half-brother's mother, in turn? Like, what? Why? Shouldn't he already have a wife by this point? And I doubt Circe would be willing to be lesser to said Wife unless the poor woman's killed off for Circe to come in; which, as said, WHY?! She's basically the Queen of her own Island, so why would she want to be 'subservient' - as subservient as a Titan's Daughter would/could be to a mortal in such times, of course - to a King when she don't have to? Why would she have left her island in the first place?), but then there's the whole 'Tele would be more than old enough and experienced enough to become King without the whole mess that was the Odyssey holding him back anymore with the King's death confirmed' so there's no need for her to remarry. Not to hold the Kingdom she was Regent of for her husband or child, not to have more children because it would most likely kill her to try, and her own full-grown child would be obligated (I'm pretty sure, I could be wrong) to care for her in her twilight years - if he didn't do it just because he loved She Who Raised Him - with his father gone and making/watching her remarry doesn't seem to be that; not unless they were threatened for whatever reason. And why would they need or have to be? Not to mention the whole 'he's the one who killed her husband!' One would think she'd sooner kill the kid than marry him. I mean, c'mon! There's a version of Their Story where if the bow had been strung by one who wasn't her husband that the axes to be shot through had her standing at the end so she'd die before she'd have to marry the winner, and thus give reason for Tele to take his rightful place on the throne with neither parent around anymore! Hell, if not kill the kid then why not herself? As said, she was willing to die to her husband's weapon if she couldn't be with her husband himself, so why would she live on without him - with his killer - when she don't have to? Because I'm pretty sure there's no stigma for suicide as there is in other regions, it's just a matter of how one commits it that needs thought. I fully admit I could be wrong but still. She'd just need to do whatever she could to make him want to kill her, if not find a way to die 'by accident' in such a case.

So I ask you: where's the logic behind spreading the Telegony as a "sequel"? Especially with the whole 'fairytale' elements of Pen being so faithful in his return, Ody's determination to get home, her devotion despite the circling vultures, his heartache over those Seven Long Years as a prisoner who was also being SA'd, the homophrosyne of Them, and the love driving everything behind the story of Homer's Odyssey? Of Cunning King Odysseus and Just-as-Cunning Queen Penelope?

And all that's ↑ why my opinion regarding the Telegony as a sequel to the Odyssey will be that it's not. Because it simply doesn't make sense to be one. As said, to me it's fanfiction being called a 'sequel' and other people spreading it around like it's God's Given Truth in certain Epic animatic comment sections. If anything, it was probably made/written - just like Ulysses was meant to make Ody out as so much worse by the Romans! - so as to cheapen the strength of Their Story. Because, why not, right?

I think one of the issues I have with the Telegony is that I can't see Odysseus and Penelope marrying other people.

This isn't a shipper thing btw, it's just that I feel like they'd get...bored.

These are two people who are portrayed as being of one mind, literally the same person but in different fonts in some ways. Their love language is weird, these are two people who saw each other for the first time in 20 years and immediately decided that the first thing they'd do was

A.) make the other cry/piss the other off

B.) lie to/manipulate one another

C.) test each other in insane ways

Almost all of those happened at the same time too istg there is something wrong with them 😭

Like, what would the odds be of them finding another intellectual equal that they are compatible with??? If they didn't find that how long would it be before they got bored because of a lack of a challenge???

How is Penelope, a woman who prayed for death to join her husband so she wouldn't have to remarry to a man inferior to him, gonna be immortal with a man who isn't her intellectual equal without going insane??? (No, because that genuinely sounds like a nightmare scenario for her. She needs that intellectual stimulation! He's smart but he's not as cunning as his father.)

How is Odysseus gonna marry some random ruler of a random kingdom and stick with her until her death??? At least make sure she's gonna be able to challenge you intellectually!! What if she can't piss you off in a single sentence just to ensure it's actually you and not a vengeful God who has taken your form??? He'd be devastated.

Also, if he was gonna just fuck off and marry a princess he met randomly while on a journey why didn't he just stick around and marry Nausicaa???

Also, also, ignore Penelope and Telemachus for a second, what was his reasoning for abandoning Ithaca for another kingdom instead of returning????

TLDR: Penelope and Odysseus match each other's freak in a very weird and specific way that would be hard to find with someone else.

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Listen.

EVERYBODY knows (or should) that you DO. NOT. STOP. in Vidor, Texas. 

It’s best to just run out of gas elsewhere. Whatever you do, black folks, DO NOT STOP IN VIDOR, TEXAS. 

There’s a good chance you’ll get lynched or just come up missing - and I’m not joking.

also do NOT stop in Harrison, Arkansas!!!! (relatively close to OK and MI) a nazi town with a BIG KKK organization.

Reblog To Save Life

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Natalie Portman being confused by the fact that you have to say “hi” to someone before starting a conversation in France got me like ?????

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He's so cool lookin'!! o.O

Tuxedo Mask: The Dark Mage

Bonus, just because. :)

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So friggin pretty! Like, all of them are so pretty!

All together! For International Women’s Day. ♥

Sailor Moon, the Priestess - Sailor Mercury, the Bard - Sailor Mars, the Ranger - Sailor Jupiter, the Warrior + Sailor Venus, the Valkyrie.

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This is the BEST!!

edward, pls. at least ezio is having a good time. 

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Gomez and Morticia Addams got divorced. I woke up mortified and with a sense of inexplicable dread.

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So friggin' pretty!

for those who know me, you know that I am a big fan of greek mythology, so when the epic saga by Jorege Rivera-Herrans came out I couldn't help but fall madly in love with it, his music accompanied and inspired me while I was working, and now that this long journey is about to end I couldn't help but leave a tribute to thank him for all the work he has done. he couldn't have left us a better christmas present under the tree! thanks again for everything.

ps: I already know that with the last song I will cry like a fountain!!

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A question: Odysseus about Iphigenia

Hey every-body!

I have to ask the relative collective, do you think that while Odysseus might have felt bad about Iphigenia's fate because of Agamemnon's idiocy, though I do acknowledge that he can be made more than one dimensional by good authors as evidenced by one called "My Love I kept you well" by thehouseofblack over on Ao3, he was just a TOUCH vindicated about it?

Y'know, because he was the one behind Palamedes but since the guy was the "Commander of Commanders", thus someone the Ithacan King couldn't as easily frame or scheme against as his subordinate, whom we all know he took care of at some point even though not all the sources agree on how, then at least he still lost one of his children (technically at Ody's hands nonetheless; depending on the source) (please correct me if I'm wrong) while Telemachus, despite the attempt to kill him, was still alive? Maybe even felt he deserved how he died too when he found him in the Underworld?

Or am I just fucked in the head, maybe even projecting, for thinking so hard about someone from so long ago? By the way, I have not reread the Odyssey, (I come here because of my obsession with Jorge's masterpiece Epic the Musical) though I have read bits and pieces from other sources, so please don't get too on my butt if I need correction. :)

EDIT: Apparently I was wrong! In some sources of the Iliad, Iphigenia wasn't sacrificed. It was just made to look like she was! And apparently, it wasn't Agamemnon who was behind Palamedes! Even though I was so sure... so many commenters even said on those animatics... Oh well! I was wrong and a lazy dumb-dumb for not fact checking. To which I might still be a dumb-dumb just because I might have been lied to about whether Agamemnon was indeed involved! As said, haven't fact checked.

As such, let this instead be a thought experiment: Do you think Ody would be vindictive enough to be put out that he couldn't orchestrate Aggy's death like he did Palamedes in the event such a scenario DID play out as I thought it had?

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sometimes you need dialogue tags and don't want to use the same four