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People be like “I respect our they them non binary beans uwu” and then freak out when we identify in a way that doesnt adhere to the gender binary

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Society if trans men weren’t policed on how they identify, weren’t told theyre “choosing the patriarchy” or told that theyre invading womens spaces

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The secret third thing is “well theyre not FULLY a man so they can be a lesbian” which defeats the whole non-man loving non-men bit entirely

There seems to be 2 trains of thoughts in the wider lesbian community for whether or not bigender people can be lesbians.

And that’s either 1: they are the woman kind of bigender so they’re not really a man. There for it’s ok!

Or 2: they are the man kind of bigender so they’re not really a woman. There for them being lesbians would be wrong and bad.

Do you… do you see the problem here????

If someone is both a man and a woman, then they ARE a man and a woman. You cannot just decide one’s the one they really are.

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Not only that but centering your lesbian identity around some form of ideological view is literally political lesbianism/lesbian separatism. Youre asserting that being a lesbian is about hatred of men instead of a queer attraction to women.

"im a lesbian because i hate men/want to never be around men ever again" is shit logic because:

genderfluid lesbians exist

bigender lesbians exist

non binary lesbians exist

bi/pan/poly/omnisexual lesbians & their partners exist

multigender/polygender lesbians exist

genderqueer lesbians exist

two-spirit lesbians

demiboy & demigender lesbians exist

lesboys exist

guydykes exist

butches & studs who are/are partially men exist

ftm, transmasc & trans man lesbians exist

a lot of masc, male and man identifying lesbians exist.

men are not inherently evil or dangerous.

lesbians who are men exist. you are alienating other lesbians when you say things like this. you are enabling people in chasing out partially or wholly male identifying people who rightfully belong there from lesbian spaces. destroy this logic once and for all, it's violent, hateful, and dangerous.

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I want to specify that, just because people in general don't nearly care as much about lesboys or bi lesbians or whatever, it doesn't mean that discrimination DOESNT exist

A lot of spaces aren't trans friendly in general, or they engage in queerness under a white liberal framework.

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very important video by E, please watch it as soon as possible. please keep an open heart & open mind for people in your community. weird labels or not, everyone is under the same group, everyone is fighting the same war— let's do our best to unionize in the coming times.

please. get rid of your radicalized and normative views on queerness. remember intersex people, multigender people, mspec (multiple orientation spectrum), and people who dont neatly fit into certain labels. the world will become meaner and scarier, and we need to start caring about the real issues, in our real lives. please, let's all let go of being

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I understand that as a teenager you are under the assumption that everything you say is completely right but if you could hold that urge back before saying some dumb fucking shit i’d appreciate it

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As a butch I have seen my fair share of lesbians who see being a lesbian as a girly-girl only club and actively harass and attack butches

You guys sound like this to me when you can’t even understand what the dark orange or white stripe of the flag means

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I'll take "online queers who see non-binary people as woman-lite" for 100 please

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"Why do people say that I think all non binary people are woman-lite"

Maybe it's because you:

Consider being a man completely incomparable from any non binary identity (aka saying bigender or genderfluid men arent actually "fully men")

You lump in women and non binary people all the time as if we all inherently share the same experiences

You're really weird about trans men expressing masculinity

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POV: You've never been to an actual queer gathering in real life

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"Ew icky I dont want MEN invading lesbian spaces!!! Non-men loving non-men!!!!!"

You do realise that the term "non-man" includes a wide variety of people who aren't aligned with lesbian or sapphic identity? I'm pretty sure a transmasc bisexual who doesnt consider their attraction to women queer would NOT want a lesbian hitting them up. If you're so concerned about who's flirting with who then why adamantly define a label like that?

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genderfluid =/= "non-man"

bigender =/= "non-man"

non-binary =/= "non-man"

if you see non binary genders as inherently non-man then it says a lot about what you think about queer masculinity as a whole

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I live in one of the queerest cities in the world, I know that's privileged but I think it represents the Ideal and rawest form of the queer community. When you're in your 20s and 30s nobody gives a fuck about contradictory labels or transmeds vs tucutes or any of this shit. I'm a post-op ftm Butch lesbian. I've experienced violent transphobia from random transgender teenagers online because they feel threatened by the way I identify. Queer infighting at its CORE comes from trying to validate oneself to cishet people, for legislation, legitimacy, or respect. Take away the pressure of the Cishet Gaze and nobody is angry or defensive anymore.

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“trans men only called themselves lesbians because no one saw them as men”

If you don’t think trans men are capable of self determination and have never been accepted in queer circles until the 2000’s then you can jusf say that

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Bornstein’s Gender Outlaw: On Men, Women, and the Rest of Us. (Finally bought it for John for Christmas, but read first of course.) Bornstein’s book is all about how transsexualism ‘deconstructs’ the two-gender system by promoting a proliferation of genders, a free play of gender expression.

But | see what Hausman’s problem is with this argument. It’s twofold. First, many self-identified transsexuals (like John, for example) are quite fond of the two-gender status quo. In their eyes, their only problem is that they were born on the wrong side of a fence they have no intention of breaking down, only of jumping over. The position of such transsexuals cannot simply be dismissed as politically reactionary. Their position marks the second problem with — indeed, the very limit of - the Bomstein/post-structuralist take on transsexualism, which is that, says Hausman, ‘there is a logical inconsistency between doing away with gender and making more genders’.

Hausman is saying that the true disruption of gender lies not in some free-play of signification, a proliferation of genders, some utopian world populated by (in Halberstam’s words) ‘guys with pussies, dykes with dicks, queer butches, aggressive femmes, F2Ms, lesbians who like men, daddy boys, gender queens, drag kings, pomo afro homos, bulldaggers, women who fuck boys, women who fuck like boys, dyke mommies, transsexual lesbians, male lesbians’. For Judith, all this gender freedom on the frontiers brings forth the ‘more general fragmentation of the concept of sexual identity’ — that's why she thinks — or at least thought, because I’ve heard that she’s publishing again on the topic — we’re all transsexuals.

But Hausman is saying, rather, that it is our task as critics and activists to focus, paradoxically, on the resistant, non-signifying materiality of the body. The subversion of gender lies not in the multiplication of gender meanings, but in the limits of gender meaning itself, the mute irreverence of the body. The history of transsexualism in particular is marked by the body's blunt refusal to co-operate in the construction of the social meanings of gender, either by doctors or self-identified transsexuals: ‘the body does not accommodate all the procedures of “sex change”: the body, in other words, resists making “gender” real’.

When | feel hurt and rejected, the femme in me wants to be some kind of cheerleader for the Real, as if it were John’s female body — his old butch body — saying, ‘I don’t want to be a man. I’m going to be difficult and stick around as a woman’. But of course it’s not that simple. The Real doesn’t talk, that’s the whole point.