phantom-thief-system

[phantom-thief-system]

god would it fucking kill doppo to admit his husband is a bitch sometimes??

[phantom-thief-system]

It's time for me to become freaky. (adding NYAN to my playlist. :3)

[phantom-thief-system]

not enough unapologetic persecutors on here. wonder if that's because of shame or limitations by their hosts.

let's get this post maintagged. like if you're a persecutor or smth silly like that. let's see a show of hands of how many of us are actually allowed out front -🩷

[phantom-thief-system]

rb with whether people assume you’re older or younger than your actual age

[phantom-thief-system]

Ah, you participated in the Animal HRT trend. Cool. Neat. And how long ago did you realize you qualified for multiple definitions of alterhuman and/or plural?

[phantom-thief-system]

Hi I really like you can I please rub my face against yours and wag my tail and nap with you so you know that

[phantom-thief-system]

Me coreeeeee

[phantom-thief-system]

"This User Doesn't Remember Source Well/At All" userboxes for our own use. Feel free to use, credit not required.

[phantom-thief-system]

"This User Has Dysphoria From Not Having Self-Harm Scars" userbox for our own use (feel free to use, credit if you wish). Trigger warning for self-harm mention (obviously) and bandages.

[phantom-thief-system]

if we don't get more gay rights soon I'm gonna start committing gay wrongs

[phantom-thief-system]

Oh to gallop in the forest, wind blowing in my mane.

[phantom-thief-system]

I have a sincere and genuine question (one which you are free to ignore)

But I wanted to ask about why you’re pro endogenic/willogenic/nontraumagenic etc.?

I dont ask to stir controversy, but rather because i think I want to understand more about it all and am reaching out to see others experiences in why they believe/see the world how they do

In my early exposure to/learning about systemhood I was taught a lot by those who don’t really like/believe the nontraumagenic claims. As I see more and more of the community and its variations- I find myself more unsure about what is or isn’t true. I ask here instead of consulting the internet because finding clear research on the topic has been increasingly difficult for me and I find I’m not sure exactly where or how to look

Obviously you are probably not the information god of this subject, but i guess I’m looking mostly for your outlook/view on things to just really hear from others in the community on a subject I’m struggling with

hey anon. the biggest reason i’m pro-endo is because i’m part of a mixed origins system. but, i see that that probably isn’t a satisfactory answer to most people wanting to learn more hahaha

the second biggest reason is, well, i am not anyone else nor am i in their brain, so i cannot tell if someone is telling the truth about their experiences or not. therefore, i have to take what people say at face value. if they say they’re a system, i have no right to tell them no, they’re not. that right only belongs to them, and to some extent their psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist.

another reason: the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. just because there is little research into endogenic systems doesnt mean they’re not real. there’s not much undeniable evidence of aliens yet people still believe that they exist. why? because like the human brain, the universe is infinitely complex and we just don’t have the time, money or equipment to study every single aspect of it, especially if those aspects don’t pose an immediate threat on us as humans. endogenic systems themselves aren’t being hurt by their plurality, unlike with did/osdd systems who face severe symptoms with their disorder. in a medical perspective, there’s not much point researching something that isn’t harmful. did and osdd need research so that the systems with those disorders can actually function. endogenic systems with disorders, if they have them, usually have disorders that are already being researched all the time, such as autism, adhd, ocd, bpd, (c)ptsd, etc. so there are already people trained in dealing with those disorders that can help endogenic systems with them, as they would help anyone with them.

however, in saying all that, there actually IS research on endogenic systems, just not as much perhaps as disordered systems. i’ve found some research papers that i like and think are unbiased and fair, so i’m going to make a google doc with links to them, or to where you can download them, and that will be at the bottom of this post. i do think these papers do a lot of help for the endogenic community, especially against sysmedicalists and anti-endos who rely solely on medical evidence and research in order to believe in something (which i absolutely disagree with, i believe we should take what people say about their identity and just believe it without needing ten medical papers to back it up).

i hope this brings a little clarity to my stance on endogenic plurality, and obviously this is just my stance. there are many other systems out there who have different and perhaps better reasons for believing in endogenic plurality. if you’re on reddit at all, i highly highly encourage you to go to r/plural and have a look around there. the people there are so lovely and many of them would love to give you even more resources.

anyway, i hope you have a great day anon, and i hope you find the answers you want about endogenic plurality!

here is the document

and another link to a spreadsheet of more resources

[phantom-thief-system]

love it!

So, what do we think of this...

[phantom-thief-system]

we don't care. most of us come from altered versions of canon anyways, so finding an exact double would be rare, if not totally impossible.

I've seen this come up a few times recently and I want to know what y'all think.

[phantom-thief-system]

gosh, this almost makes me madder than anti-endos themselves. at least keep track of the definitions you despise so much.

how many times does it have to be said?

plural is an explicitly pro endo term, coined by endogenic systems to be a word explicitly for endogenics and pro endos. do not use the word plural or the plural tags if you are anti endo. use multiple instead.

still cannot believe you have the audacity to say we invade your spaces and steal your terminology, and then turn around and use our own word, made because you were whining about us filling your space.

i repeat: if you are anti endo, do not use the word plural or the plural tags.

[phantom-thief-system]

my names Alex cause I look like an Alex

[phantom-thief-system]

Actually that post does make us want to talk about how persecutors are perceived in the community vs. how they can actually be.

Because this idea that persecutors are all dark and violent and easy to spot seems to be a running undercurrent in the discussion and we think that can make it difficult for anyone whose not like that to get help.

Our persecutors were littles, they were kids and to anyone who interacted with them they'd seem like average kids. They like Disney, and Pokemon and colouring pages and playing with stuffies. They were extremely kind to anyone who interacted with them outside us.

They also drove our ED, tried to get us into dangerous relationships, wouldn't say no to any requests made of them even harmful ones, would chant intrusive thoughts, tried to get us to move back home, self harmed, and more and would become violent in brain when we tried to stop them.

Because they were scared kids and violence was all they knew, they didn't feel safe when we did things that to them could lead to punishments, they felt they needed to punish themselves (us) when we did something bad because they thought that would keep us safe.

Anyone else? the most polite and courteous children ever because they were stuck in a fear response and that was fawn.

If they had access to BAH blogs and wanted to use them for self harm then you can bet it would seem like the most polite and innocuous request ever because they were terrified of angering or coming off poorly to someone they say as an authority or in charge.

Persecutors can look like anyone, they can be a scared kid that's extremely polite and kind when interacting with people, they can be a motherly figure that always seems helpful and patient, they can be a calm guy who chats about fandoms and never seems upset

How someone presents to those outside of the system doesn't actually mean they present the same inside.

A persecutor doesn't need to be dark, or an introject of someone bad, or even violent (in or out of the system), and the community needs to gwt better at recognizing the depth of experiences when it come to persecutors.

-Scarlet/Aisling