schoethe

[schoethe]

@delfinaaj91 okay. so apparently, there actually was some kind of technical issue yesterday. it is still not very easy to find what you want to find but it is at least possible. so some additions:

the search query "Schiller, Friedrich" will give you letters to/from schiller from before and after his ennoblement in 1802, as it also shows results for "Schiller, Friedrich von"; it will however also give some very few results for his son Ernst

if you're not looking for something particular, it doesn't really matter if you type in schiller for addressee and goethe for sender or vice versa, you'll always be guided to a page with letters in both directions anyway

if you're looking for a particular letter or period, filter for year first (under "Zeit" on the right side of the page:)

clicking one of the letters will lead you to a page with all the letters written between Goethe and Schiller in that year from the date on the letter you chose is from (!!!); if you want to see all letters from one year you have to change the order of the search results first, and set it to "Datierung" – then choose the first letter and the page will show letters from that year:

to go to the scan(s) of a particular letter, click on the linked numbers in the letter description; you can also navigate between the pages in the scan viewer but it's hard to tell which letter you're looking at without context info:

Goethe dictaded a lot of his letters to a "scribe" (is this the correct term for "Schreiber"? it's like a typist but without the typewriter ;)) so not all letters by Goethe are manually written by himself, only signed. These letters have the note "Schrift: z.T. XY" (as seen above) in their description, but you can also tell from the handwriting: the scribe usually has a much more even, standardised, "edgier" handwriting, the lines are very even etc. Goethe's own handwriting is more uneven, "rounder", and less legible* ;) – for comparison:

this is a scribe's handwriting:

this is Goethe's own handwriting:

(Schiller didn't have money to spend on fancy stuff like a scribe to dictate letters to, so all his letters should be actually written by himself (he did however mysteryously have money to spend on caviar but that is another story...))

*of course Goethe's handwriting is extremely legible compared to someone elses handwriting that i happen to know 🙃😭

Excuse me, do you know where I can find the manuscripts of Goethe and Schiller? I mainly want to see the manuscripts of their correspondence.

uuggghhh, good question! they used to be easy to find but then the GSA (Goethe-Schiller-Archiv) redesigned their archive/website in a very incomprehensible way and now it's pretty complicated 🙃

but here's a guide on how it should (theoretically) work, however while trying this out, I've been thrown off the website several times, got sudden error messages etc., I unfortunately think that this website is really ridiculous and pretty impossible to use (if anyone knows a better way PLEASE tell me!!), but try it out, maybe you're lucky:

you go to www.klassik-stiftung.de/forschung/datenbanken-kataloge/

you scroll down to part that says "Goethe- und Schiller-Archiv" and click on

3. you arrive at the 🌟Archivdatenbank🌟 which has no "speaking"? url but instead just some weird numbers and symbols (a bad omen?)

4. you go to the dropdown menu at the top right that says "Suche" and drop it down; choose "Briefsuche"

5. you can now filter for sender and addressee: type "Schiller, Friedrich" into one field and "Goethe, Johann Wolfgang" into the other

6. you choose a letter from the search results and click on it (there will be many pages with results for this search query; if you're looking fo a particular letter you can also filter for date/year)

7. you will be mysteriously guided to a page with all letters from schiller to goethe (or viceversa) from that year, not only the one you just found and clicked on....

8. if you're lucky you will be able to click on the images on the right side which will show you the scans of the letters!

[schoethe]

Excuse me, do you know where I can find the manuscripts of Goethe and Schiller? I mainly want to see the manuscripts of their correspondence.

uuggghhh, good question! they used to be easy to find but then the GSA (Goethe-Schiller-Archiv) redesigned their archive/website in a very incomprehensible way and now it's pretty complicated 🙃

but here's a guide on how it should (theoretically) work, however while trying this out, I've been thrown off the website several times, got sudden error messages etc., I unfortunately think that this website is really ridiculous and pretty impossible to use (if anyone knows a better way PLEASE tell me!!), but try it out, maybe you're lucky:

you go to www.klassik-stiftung.de/forschung/datenbanken-kataloge/

you scroll down to part that says "Goethe- und Schiller-Archiv" and click on

3. you arrive at the 🌟Archivdatenbank🌟 which has no "speaking"? url but instead just some weird numbers and symbols (a bad omen?)

4. you go to the dropdown menu at the top right that says "Suche" and drop it down; choose "Briefsuche"

5. you can now filter for sender and addressee: type "Schiller, Friedrich" into one field and "Goethe, Johann Wolfgang" into the other

6. you choose a letter from the search results and click on it (there will be many pages with results for this search query; if you're looking fo a particular letter you can also filter for date/year)

7. you will be mysteriously guided to a page with all letters from schiller to goethe (or viceversa) from that year, not only the one you just found and clicked on....

8. if you're lucky you will be able to click on the images on the right side which will show you the scans of the letters!

[schoethe]

ughh i'm so sorry i made a typo in the date i meant 1826

or to be more direct the fact that both of mentioned legendary duets were buried together (my brain literally hurts while i'm writing this)

and schoethe obv did both read iliad, and i still wonder if goethe did think about it himself, if it is where the idea came to him from

maybe i'm exaggerating the meaning of this though. all i found in desperate search of info was an article about antique references in wallenstein and hell how max and wallestein resembled schoethe themselves to me and what the article stated-

uh. anyway a thousand thanks for hearing me out and answering me (i wrote the previous message right before you appeared btw so... yeah i almost didn't have to wait) (and sorry for the chaotic and confusing rant again i'm not okay about this so much that it made me DRAW which happens like once in half an year or something)

i'm still not very sure what this is about (very little knowledge of ancient greeks sorry) but i know who was into ancient greeks so...

[schoethe]

okay but please PLEASE can we talk about some parallels between goethe x schiller and achilles x patroclus??? all i can tell about this by now is the most obvious & heartbreaking part of this topic (i.e. 1827th and the funeral of patroclus) (painful af but also kinda beautiful) and the "history hates lovers" thing. but i'm SURE there's more to it. so i'm here to ask if you or anyone else here have something to add

i'm going insane because of a feeling that i'm ignorant of something important send help

sorry anon i literally do not know what you're talking about but maybe someone else does

[schoethe]

Weimar bei Nacht.

[schoethe]

sehe diesen Post jetzt gerade erst und dachte, ich teile ihn mal, wo Fritz und Wolfi schon als Beispiel fungieren — das deutsche Literaturarchiv in Marbach (Schillers Geburtsort!) sucht Fanfictions zum archivieren! also falls ihr was geschrieben habt und in die Literaturgeschichte eingehen wollt, wärt ihr hier am richtigen Platz denke ich ;)

our fanfiction collection

If you found us via Tumblr, chances are you know what fanfiction is. For the DLA, fanfiction offers an opportunity to approach canonical, well-known texts from a new perspective and to make them approachable in turn. Here, a fan retells Hesse’s Demian, there, the friendship between Friedrich Schiller and Johann Wolfgang von Goethe is, in fact, a love story. Fanfiction offers an ideal venue for both the study of acts of reading as well as of acts of writing and even concepts of authorship. It is not only creative, derivative, collaborative, and interactive, but also subversive: both love letter to and resistance against the original.

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If you think your fanfiction would be a good addition to our archive, contact us via DM!

[schoethe]

[x] [x]

Als Goethe einmal auf einer Reise nach Leipzig zwei beinahe exakt gleich lautende Briefe an seine Lebensgefährtin Christiane und an Schiller geschickt hat… 

Im vollkommen identischen ersten Teil übersandte er den beiden ein ‘Lebenszeichen’, wie er selbst schrieb, berichtete was er so trieb, wen er getroffen hatte, wie das Wetter war etc. Die Briefe unterscheiden sich ausschließlich durch ihre leicht personalisierten Enden: An Christiane schrieb er noch, ihr mehr zu erzählen wenn er wieder da sei und trug Grüße an den gemeinsamen Sohn auf – an Schiller schrieb er, wie sehr er sich freue bald zurück zu ihm in die “Jenaische Einsamkeit” zu kehren, dass ihm die Zerstreuung in Leipzig aber trotzdem gut tue.

Ich hoffe inständig, dass das keiner von beiden jemals erfahren hat.

[schoethe]

“Wenige Wochen nachher lagen beide krank darnieder und konnten sich weder sehen noch schreiben. Schiller war der erste, der sich erholte, und kaum konnte er wieder ausgehen, so besuchte er seinen lieben Goethe, nachdem er sich durch mich hatte anmelden lassen. Ich war bei diesem Wiedersehen zugegen, und es rührt mich noch jedesmal, wenn ich daran denke. Sie fielen sich um den Hals und küssten sich in einem langen, herzlichen Kusse, ehe einer von ihnen ein Wort hervorbrachte.”

— Heinrich Voß an Christian Niemeyer, über das Wiedersehen am 01.03.1805 in einem Brief vom 12.08.1806

[schoethe]

“Ihr Brief meine Liebe, traf mich zur guten sonnigen Stunde, deren wir uns nicht oft zu rühmen haben und machte mir sie noch erfreulicher, hätte nur nicht zugleich die Nachricht von Schillers Übel wieder eine Wolke davor gezogen. Da wir geistiger Weise so froh zusammen vorschreiten, warum können wir es nicht auch dem Körper nach? Selbst diesmal wenn wir zusammen hier gewesen wären, hätte es uns gewiß doppelte Zufriedenheit gegeben.”

— Goethe an Charlotte Schiller, Karlsbad, 25.02.1795

[schoethe]

“Geht”

— Friedrich Schiller, Don Karlos, Akt IV, V. 3919

[schoethe]

“wählen.”

— Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust II, Akt IV, V. 10280

[schoethe]

Leben Sie wohl und lieben mich, es ist nicht einseitig. - Goethe an Schiller, 18. März 1795 [x]

[schoethe]

“Mit stiller, aber desto lebhafterer Sehnsucht sehe ich dem Tage entgegen, der mich wieder zu Ihnen bringen soll.”

— Goethe an Schiller, 07.02.1798, #417

[schoethe]

Manchmal muss ich dran denken dass der Theaterdichter in Fausts Vorspiel vor dem Theater Like. Drei strophen an Dialog hat in denen er lamentiert seine Jugend zu vermissen und wie sehr er sie Wiederhaben will und dann denke ich daran, dass Goethe gemeint hat Schiller hätte ihm eine zweite Jugend geschenkt und etwas in mir stirbt ein wenig (im positiven Sinne. Im "augh. Waugh even" Sinne)

mein hot take ist ja eh: in goethes gesamtem post-schiller-werk (inklusive faust also) steckt immer auch irgendwie trauerbewältigung

[schoethe]

“Indem ich den Aufsatz über die Kunstausstellung einsende, den ich zu geneigter Aufnahme empfehle, frage ich an, ob Sie sich nicht einrichten wollten heute Abend nach der Komödie mit mir nach Hause zu fahren?”

— Goethe an Schiller, 16.01.1802, #843

[schoethe]

“Ich bin ungeduldig verlangend, Sie wieder zu sehen, wann öffnen Sie Ihre Pforte wieder?”

— Schiller an Goethe, 14.01.1804, #935

[schoethe]

“Mit Freuden werde ich Sie auch im neuen Jahre bald wieder mündlich begrüßen und die Fortdauer unseres Verhältnisses zur guten Stunde feiern.”

— Goethe an Schiller, 01.01.1802, #828