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sincerelyqueers · 2 years

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Media Review - Shiva Baby (2020, U.S./Canada)

Shiva Baby is a 2020 comedy film, a U.S. and Canada co-production, directed by Emma Seligman. Wikipedia’s summary reads, “The film stars Danielle, a directionless young bisexual Jewish woman who attends a shiva with her family. Other attendees include her successful ex-girlfriend Maya, and her sugar daddy Max with his wife Kim and their screaming baby.”

Note: this conversation contains spoilers for the entire movie.

Mirrored from our Wordpress site.

OK, so I was the one that suggested this movie, since I thought it’d be nice to do something that was more Myriam’s wheelhouse after doing that very Taiwanese movie last time. They were Ashkenazi Jewish folks, but, hey, the director was bisexual! Close enough, right?

…And now I’m not sure if I should apologize for that assumption or not LOL.

Myriam

HA well, I have been searching for a Sephardi movie for so long and I’ve decided that it simply does not exist. So, yes, close enough!

LOL Well, the question is: did you enjoy this movie? Especially taking into consideration how much joint screaming we did while watching it, ahahaha.

Myriam

Well, haha! Good question. No.

Let me explain LOL! I enjoyed the sentiment, but, the whole thing just felt like an elaborate joke where you were like “yeah, this is what’s going to happen. this thing that makes sense.” Then she follows max into the bathroom and… chaos ensues.

We’re already jumping to Max-in-the-bathroom shenanigans? LOL

Myriam

You make a good point, we should start at the beginning. Max in the bedroom.

(Caption: Danielle and Max, her sugar daddy, in an apartment in Soho that she later learns is actually owned by Max’s wife. Yikes.)

My first notes were, “Why does this sex scene sound so fake?”

Is Max a bad lay? Did she have to fake her orgasm? Discuss.

Myriam

LOL!

I agree, very much. But I think all sex scenes sound fake, purely because they are never not off putting to me.

Oh, yes, completely agree.

#justacethings, or something, I guess LOL.

Myriam

LOL! Yes! Two aces discussing a sex scene, and I don’t think the results are surprising.

So, max is out the way (for now)

What about our main character? Thoughts on her?

Danielle? I’m not sure.

I think most of my thoughts about her sum up to, “Wow, she has bad taste in romantic partners.”

Max, her sugar daddy, is cheating on his (actually very nice!) wife, and her ex-girlfriend Maya is really mean and dismissive. Like… why?

Myriam

Ha!

My thoughts on her are very… Okay, forgive me for saying this, but I think almost every character in this movie is a Jewish stereotype.

Ooh, want to expand on that? We’ve already talked a bit while watching the movie about how most of the Jewish stuff in the movie flew over my head LOL.

Now I know how you felt last movie!

Myriam

Haha! Well, I’ll go in order of character.

Danielle feels sort of like the stereotypical secular jewish daughter that's family is somewhat disappointed in. (Oh hey, like me! /j)

Danielle’s mom (and dad, by association). One of my favorite characters, honestly. But I’ve never been a fan of the “nagging jewish mom” and “griping jewish dad” stereotypes.

Max’s wife. (And by association, Max). Not so much a jewish stereotype so much as a stereotype jews have about goyim. It’s literally said in the movie that she’s a “shiksa princess.” Also one of my favorite characters.

These are the first ones that come to mind, but this feels like a common theme throughout.

This is also why I compared it to Unorthodox, in the sense of it being sort of a stretch for goyim to be able to understand some of the nuances here. I think all of these things are ok to have jokingly, but like you said, during the movie, to someone without context it just seemed like a really anxiety filled movie when to me it was hilarious.

LOL yeah! I thought the panic attack sequences with Danielle were done really well in the movie, with the way the audio cues worked, but those were the only moments I really “understood”, and so they were what I was left with, since I got none of the jokes!

(Caption: The panic attack sequences in this film have this very eerie, horror music overlay as the camera zooms in on people’s faces. Very claustrophobic and well done.)

Oh, also, I don’t remember if I mentioned this to you, but this is the director’s first feature length movie.

Myriam

Oh wow! I would have not guessed that

So it makes me wonder how much of Danielle is basically just her.

Myriam

Oh yes, I think Danielle seemed like she was a very personal character. Which is why I felt bad about saying she reminded me of that stereotype haha!! This could very well be me over analyzing

No, no, I think that kind of context is good.

Like, one of the things that lowkey bothers me about this movie (and I also feel kind of bad saying this about a seemingly very personal film) is the kind of self-awareness on display.

Hm… how do I explain this… For instance, while there seems to be a lot of moments in the film where the film seems to be aware and poking fun at someone’s misogyny/bigotry/whatever, the film really doesn’t go far enough to condemn it other than just pointing it out. Or, rather, it doesn’t bother reframing it from whatever stereotype that’s on offer, instead just saying, “Haha, look at how they think this is a stereotype,” and never offering any counterpoints, if that makes sense.

Myriam

Exactly! Yes!

That kind of missing frame actually made me go, “Oh, of course this is a first film.” Because I feel like first filmmakers tend to assume their audience a bit, and miss explaining what might be, to them, very obvious things.

But, also, I just really didn’t like how everyone, including Danielle, talked about the Gender & Women’s Studies major LOL. Speaking as someone who had been a Gender & Women’s Studies major herself.

Like, the film was obviously critical of people who look down on that major, but it doesn’t actually do anything to defend it in any substantial way. And it’s pretty clear that the filmmaker has no idea what the major actually entails (it’s a social science, not a humanities, for one!) and it felt like it was there only to add conflict/spice.

It felt tokenistic, yeah, that’s the word I’m looking for LOL.

Myriam

Oh yes, for sure!

And I think this lack of critical frame is an underlying issue in most of the conflicts of the film. Like, all the biphobic comments, for instance. They’re never challenged!

Myriam

Yes! I think she briefly tried to explain that “Not all bisexual people are exploring” but gets cut off so quickly that its never mentioned again

(Caption: This argument literally does not go anywhere, since it gets interrupted for a joke.)

And this is what I mean about her assuming her audience. Since, of course, we (and her) know that these comments are shitty and biphobic, but will everyone?

Myriam

Exactly!

Oh, yeah, and the way this movie talks about babysitters. With the framing, I feel like the filmmaker looks down on babysitters, and that’s not a good look.

Also, also, a question I had was: does her parents know that she’s a sex worker, and are using babysitter as a euphemism, or do they really have no idea?

Myriam

Yes! That’s what I’m wondering too

Her mom sometimes seems very aware of it, right? But then other times, it seems like she has no idea.

Myriam

Yeah, that seems to be the case with literally everything. The parents seem so in touch at some times then five minutes later they have no idea.

Yeah, though I have to give this movie props where it’s due. The way the Jewish parents talked to each other was very relatable, haha. Constantly asking about boyfriends, jobs, the works.

Myriam

Oh yes! As much as I dislike stereotypes, sometimes I relate so much to the Jewish Parents one in particular. (Sorry mom, you’re great, I promise /j)

Ah, yes, the universal immigrant experience of parents asking you about boyfriends, jobs, and if you’re eating enough.

Myriam

YES!

Speaking of which, did you want to talk about the food? I remember you had Thoughts about the food during the movie.

Myriam

Oh I had SO many thoughts on the food.

What was the sludge that she got two scoops of before dumping back? Why did bagels get so much screen time?

(Caption: What is this mystery substance? Discuss.)

Didn’t you say that there are lots of bagels at shivas?

Though, yes, there were a lot of bagels in this movie. A lot.

Myriam

Well, sometimes! But It’s like cake at a birthday party! I don’t expect that much cake to make it into a movie about birthdays.

Hmmm, maybe they’re a symbol for something.

What do bagels symbolize?

Myriam

Also, the rude talk about her having an ED!

Oh yes, yikes.

Myriam

I think you could be right actually, I feel like maybe not bagels, but food in general, could be in relation to the talk about her having an ED.

I don’t feel like it was an accident that she put all of her food back after overhearing that.

Oh, I was just setting up for a joke about bagels being symbols for her life, since her future is like a black hole as she has no clue how to approach it.

Myriam

LOL Oh yes, I’m overanalyzing

LOL no, I am making really silly jokes in an effort to find meaning in this movie!!

I think your idea has more merit. Like if I was a filmmaker, my intentions would be yours.

(Caption: Bagel eating happens so much in this movie, and so often in close-up, that it has to be a symbol for something, right?)

Myriam

This movie felt very fake deep to be honest. It plays with some really cool themes, but it all seems very surface level? Like how she kisses Maya for no reason.

Yeah, for a moment there, I wondered if I’d understand that scene if I was allo. I literally did a double-take that made me go, “Am I confused because I’m ace??”

Myriam

Yes!! Like, same with the max and the bathroom scene.

YES. I honestly don’t understand what she sees in Max and Maya, enough to keep trying to get back together with both of them throughout the movie.

Like… Max literally cheats on his wife using his wife’s own money.

Myriam

Girl, get with Max’s wife.

She’s the real MVP

YES. Especially since Maya is, as I said, extremely mean and dismissive. Like the way she talks about Danielle’s major?? Seriously, no wonder they broke up.

And, even worse, the way she talks when she finds out Danielle’s a sex worker. Oh jeez.

Myriam

Oh yes. Maya sucks.

Yes, Maya hate brigade.

Myriam

I think Max’s wife was a little pushy at the end with the baby too. Which makes me wonder if she knew.

Yeah, the film kind of leaves it open-ended on that front.

I really wanted to see Kim slapping Max across the face and filing a divorce right then and there LOL.

Myriam

Yes same!!!

(Caption: I thought for sure this would be the moment when Max gets his just desserts, when Kim catches them speaking together in the kitchen, but nope.)

I hope they do get divorced post-movie, though, and that Max has to pay a shit ton of alimony and child support for the rest of his life.

Myriam

YES!

I would like to say though: Danielle’s hair? Spot on.

LOL, of course, can’t forget the best hair award!

Myriam

A very important factor!

I did like the scene where she was picking up the glass and kissing what I assume is a siddur/Chumash

I liked her mom comforting her afterwards. I was like, “If this movie had been about this mother-daughter relationship, I might have enjoyed it more.”

Myriam

Oh yes I agree. I love a good mother-daughter relationship.

Especially when they’re wholesome!

Yes!! There were glimmers of that here, but I feel like the film, despite being personal, also didn’t want to get too vulnerable, if you know what I mean? As in, it kept trying to diffuse any difficult moments with jokes instead of just letting it breathe.

Myriam

Oh yes, especially in the panicking scene where they mentioned israel/palestine. It got really intense but I think having the jokes thrown in there in that scene sort of ruined the moment.

(I say Israel/Palestine because that’s how they referred to it in the movie, egh)

Oh, yes, ew.

Yet another one of those bigoted moments that go unchallenged.

Myriam

Yes!

Like, I’m sure the director has actually heard people say this in real life, but, uh, that doesn’t really excuse it.

Myriam

Right, I think it’s ok to put that comment in there. But it shouldn’t just be without context? You know, like, have something that frames it as a disagreeable comment

Yes, exactly.

Myriam

Again, I think this is one of those movies so steeped in context and culture that it is almost unwatchable to goyim without someone to explain every scene LOL

LOL well thankfully I had you here to answer all my silly questions.

Like “what is shul”.

Myriam

LOL

Anyway, I think we covered most everything. Did you have anything else you want to add before we move onto ratings and final thoughts? LOL

Myriam

Moral of the story is to not trust Maya!

Wait, ratings first!

Myriam

Oh yes, yes LOL

what system did we use last time?

I just gave one rating. You gave, like, three.

So it is entirely up to you. I mean, who cares about consistency, am I right?

Myriam

I’ll make a new system. I give it a two and a half stars.

Out of 10? LOLOL.

And just one rating?

Myriam

Out of five!

So a 50%. A fail.

Or, a half-pass, if you look at it from a glass half-full perspective.

Myriam

What? 50 is MORE than passing

Not in the U.S. education system!

Well, for me… Hm… 6/10?

Myriam

Ohh, lower than the last movie! But more than half

It’s because 60% is a D-, and hence a fail, in the U.S. education system.

Myriam

Of course LOLO

Or barely a pass. Ahahaha. Depends on how nice your teacher is.

Anyway, any last thoughts?

Myriam

DON’T TRUST MAYA!

Mine is: Stop letting Maya hold your hand!! Don’t get back together with her!!

Myriam

EXACTLY!

Also, Gender & Women’s Studies is the best major. 10/10 em recommends.

You’ll never see that high a rating for any of the movies we watch! So the true moral of the story is: gender & women’s studies > movies.

(I’m joking. Maybe.)

Myriam

LOL

(Caption: feel the same way Danielle looks at this point in the movie: sick of this, and wanting Maya to go away.)

#Media review #queer #queer community #lgbtqia #lgbtq #bi #bi movie #jewish #shiva baby #shiva baby 2020 #review #movie review

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sincerelyqueers · 2 years

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Media Review - Your Name Engraved Herein (2019, Taiwan)

Your Name Engraved Herein is a Taiwanese film, directed by Patrick Kuang-hui Liu, released in 2020. The summary from google is, “In 1987, as martial law ends in Taiwan, Jia-han and Birdy fall in love amid family pressures, homophobia and social stigma.”

The film is available to stream from Netflix (with extremely mediocre English subtitles that definitely needed a second translation check pass).

Note: this conversation contains spoilers for basically the entire film.

Mirrored from our Wordpress site.

Well, one of the things that struck me about this film when I watched it is that it’s very steeped in explicit Taiwan-ness, and it’s set in a very explicit point in Taiwan history.

So while I was watching it, I kept going, will non-Taiwanese people without any context actually “get” the film? Haha.

Myriam

The answer is, mostly no. Only with your very good guidance!

Wow, so it’s all up to me to save the people from ignorance, I see, I see.

Myriam

WELL, OK, WHEN YOU PUT IT LIKE THAT! /lh /j

[/sunglasses]

OK, OK, so some context. The film very explicitly takes place right at the end of martial law in Taiwan, which for those who don’t know, was an almost four-decade period that followed the end of the Chinese Civil War (~1950s), when the KMT government fled to Taiwan from the Mainland after their loss to the CCP. At the time it ended, it was the longest period of martial law in the world!

There’s a lot more historical context, like the tensions between the Taiwanese folks who had lived on the island since before WWII and the Japanese occupation, and the Mainland folks who had fled to Taiwan post-Civil War, but at that point, I’d be running a “Taiwan history primer 101” instead of talking about this movie, haha.

Suffice it to say, that while martial law had ended (in 1987), Taiwan still remained controlled by an authoritarian government, with no free elections, until the late 1990s! (I remember the first free election for president, actually! It was a huge deal!)

And Chiang Ching-Kuo, whose death was mentioned in the movie, was an authoritarian dictator! Hence, the protests that the characters comment briefly on, haha.

(A very funny scene, since the two boys are saying a Catholic prayer for the late President Chiang Ching-Kuo, when said president was assuredly not Catholic.)

Myriam

Yes! I really enjoyed what the movie included about martial law. Though I feel like it spent the first half establishing the end of it, and then the second half just sort of dropped it and failed to go into more detail about how it affected people’s lives.

Oh, that’s a valid critique! In a way, despite this film being on Netflix, it really feels very much like a film for Taiwanese people, so it felt like the director chose to focus on the characters first and foremost over the politics, because he assumed that everyone knows what the political atmosphere was like back then.

Though that might be just me projecting my assumptions, haha.

Myriam

That makes a lot of sense! There were quite a lot of cultural references I had to ask you about or google haha. So it does seem like this is a movie that is definitely made with a Taiwanese audience in mind. (Which, honestly, is great to see in my opinion!)

Most of the movies I’ve seen depicted certain cultures/countries, even when they’re made by people within’ that group, on Netflix feel very spoon fed. Which can be fine and all, but sometimes it’s a little weird for every sentence to be an in depth explanation of culture- when presumably the people in the movie would already know these things.

It would be like someone in a movie saying “Hey son, you want to go to dinner now? You know, to eat food! Every afternoon, or sometimes later, we go eat dinner. So how about tonight?”

Hahaha, oh yes. It’s definitely a different feeling when a filmmaker is clearly trying to appeal to a broader audience (for whatever reason) and when a filmmaker is just making something for their “in-group”, so to speak.

Oh, and we should probably mention that the filmmaker, Patrick Liu, has said that the film is semi-autobiographical!

Something along the lines of the fact that the film is about 70% based on his real life.

Myriam

Oh yes! That’s one of my favourite parts. There are a lot of real-life elements in this movie, even besides the auto-biographical parts! Like the queer protester who was arrested early on.

Yes! I loved learning in interviews and stuff that they actually contacted the protestor and asked if they could pay homage to him in the film!

And they even used actual outfits he wore back then!

(A homage to gay rights activist Chi Chia-wei. The location, outfit, and sign are all based on a real-life protest. The Chinese text here reads: “Marriage is a human right!”)

Myriam

You know, this movie actually has a lot of elements that are similar to “Eternal Summer (2006)”, which is also a Taiwanese film that has- well- a very similar plot.

Some of the scenes even look almost exactly the same to me!

Oh! I remember watching Eternal Summer, but I honestly remember nothing about it, haha.

There’s been quite a few LGBT+ coming-of-age Taiwanese films, but this one’s the first I know of that had a queer director.

“Blue Gate Crossing” is also somewhat similar, in that sense.

I think the difference between all the previous movies and this one is in the ending (which I loved! and which I think really shows the difference between having a queer director and not), but we should probably talk about the actual content of the movie for a bit before skipping right to the ending! Haha.

Myriam

That’s a very good idea! LOL

Now, I think a lot of this movie was just me going “???” For instance, what happened to the other gay character? Where did he go!

Wait, LOL, which one?

Myriam

There was a third queer character that had a relationship with one of the main character briefly. But, we only see him once or twice!

Oh, you mean the underclassman!

Myriam

I have no idea! LOL I’ll assume you’re right.

(Netflix completely botched these subtitles, haha. The kid always referred to Jia-han as “upperclassman”/”senior”, but that wasn’t even alluded to in the subtitles!)

He’s the kid who was originally bullied in the bathroom, right?

Myriam

Oh yes, I think so!

[editor!em note: I later realized that Myriam could’ve been referring to the old man, who Jia-han feeds birds with. That scene actually made me so uncomfortable that I purged it from my mind until I went back to the movie to grab screenshots. It’s definitely a very raw scene, but I’m personally not sure about its inclusion in the narrative, even if I understand the intent.]

Oh, yes, then, I agree, it would’ve been nice to see where he had ended up in the end.

But, as a semi-autobiographical film, it’s understandable that we have no idea, because I assume the director doesn’t either.

That’s kind of the double-bind here, right? That kind of hanging thread feels very “real” in the sense that you don’t always get closure in real life, but in movies, you can and should expect closure.

So yes it’s a shame that we don’t see it. Though I hope he’s living his best life now, wherever he is.

Myriam

Yes! Absolutely! He is queer, he is… not here.

But, maybe he is happier elsewhere!

Yes! Also he gave me my favorite scene in the movie, that tableau of him and Jia-han against the backdrop of that stained-glass window. So props!

(A stunning tableau, where the two of them are almost haloed by this stained glass image of a bird taking flight. Fantastic.)

Myriam

Yes! That was a gorgeous scene. (We are starting every reply with “Yes!”)

Because this movie inspires that kind of acknowledgment!! …or something LOL.

Oh, oh, can we talk about how the setting is in a Catholic school? Like, I don’t know exactly what I want to say about it, but I do want to Talk about the setting, haha.

Myriam

I have no experience with catholic schools, besides technically working in one. But the priest turning out queer was a great touch!

I was surprised at the Catholic school! Especially since Christianity, especially Catholicism, isn’t actually very common in Taiwan!

Like, there were quite a few Christian missionaries immigrating to Taiwan post-Civil War, mainly as an anti-communist tactic, but not many people actually converted!

So this was one of those experiences that probably would’ve been surprising/foreign to the average Taiwanese viewer as well.

Myriam

Oh yes! I do however feel like the movie captured how painfully awkward everything in catholic schools are.

Though I guess Taiwanese boarding school experiences might have been kind of universal? Just with less God in non-Catholic ones, I assume LOL.

But, yes, the queer priest was interesting! And (while not a bad thing) it felt like one of the few plot points that was deliberately “staged” so to speak — as in, fictional. Because, from a storytelling perspective, I kind of predicted that the priest would be queer, even though there was no textual indication of it until the very end. It just felt like it would’ve been a neat thing to write into the script, and it seems like the director agreed.

Though who knows? Maybe he really did have a queer priest mentor in high school. Stranger things have happened.

Myriam

I really liked the person who played the priest! I think he did a very good job at seeming out of touch. /hj

LOL. His Chinese was sometimes very… not understandable, let’s put it that way.

Though maybe that’s also a true Taiwanese Catholic school experience, who knows, ahaha.

Myriam

I personally do not intend to take a trip and find out if that is the authentic experience, so I’ll just go off of trusting your judgment!

I have no idea either! Are there still Catholic boarding schools in operation here? I should look this up.

There was also this very harrowing and emotional scene where Jia-han essentially comes out to the priest and asks why being gay is such a sin, which I took note of in my notes.

The utter devastation in that scene felt super real and heartbreaking.

Myriam

Yes absolutely! If I remember correctly, I actually skipped that scene the first time I watched it. Or rather, couldn’t watch it without many many breaks.

Yes, I don’t think he even says he’s gay in that scene. I think he tried to say it, but the priest stops him.

Which just goes to show how much of a “taboo” it was to be, back in those days, where even saying it out loud was considered such a terrible thing.

In fact, now that I think about it, there’s several “almost” coming out scenes in the movies. Like when Jia-han returns home after fighting with Birdy over Birdy’s relationship with a girl and tries to come out to his parents but is stopped by Birdy himself.

Myriam

Speaking of his parents, the mom in this movie is lovely! I don’t think she was shown as being queerphobic on screen, and also, her hair is really pretty.

(Do ya'll agree that she has good hair? Discuss.)

I feel like you always comment on someone having good hair in every movie we watch together! LOL

Myriam

📷 I just really enjoy looking at peoples hair!

But, yes, the mom was a nice mom! Haha. But also, like, from my perspective, I’m not sure if she’s even sure that her child is queer?

Or, rather, even if she knew, she was pretending not to know.

Myriam

Didn’t she at one point directly walk in on them cuddling very queerly? :o

And turned a fan on them! LOL

OK, OK, so I think this is a Chinese cultural thing, haha.

So a lot of queerphobia that takes place in many Chinese families is erasure/silencing.

Like, you aren’t supposed to ever talk about queer family members being queer because being queer is bad, so you don’t acknowledge that it exists, kind of thing.

So, in this case, she could’ve just thought, “Oh, they’re very close friends.” (Like the: “They’re just roommates!” meme, haha.) And she could really believe that, or she could just be fooling herself.

But that’s a common thing with many Chinese parents.

Myriam

Oh wow!

Like, I’m not saying that’s definitely what’s happening here! But that’s kind of what I got from that scene.

And the director himself even mentioned that he only came out to his parents after the movie came out, haha.

And nowhere in the film does it even seem to imply that Jia-han is out to his parents, which is a very valid, and honestly very “Chinese” experience imo!

Like, I have no idea if you’ve ever watched Saving Face (2004) (it’s very good, though, and you definitely should!) but in it the main character’s mom asks her if she’s dating her neighbor, and when her neighbor asks her later why she isn’t out to her mom, she was like, “I am. She walked in on me with someone one day, but she just pretends it never happened.” And that was, like, the pinnacle Chinese coming out experience.

Myriam

Oh wow, I should definitely watch that movie haha. That’s honestly really interesting!

Yeah! I do think it’s interesting the differences in priorities with queer stories, depending on country.

Like, even in stories that aren’t focused on coming out in America, they still have some focus on gaining acceptance from friends and family. But in Your Name Engraved Herein, the focus is both more narrow (on individual acceptance) and more broad (societal acceptance). Other than that aborted coming out sequence with his family, the movie makes no overtures either way to whether he actually did come out in the end or not. And that’s valid, haha.

Myriam

Yes! Honestly, I think I prefer this more. Not that movies that do depict coming out to family as a big step are bad by any means, but its refreashing to have a queer movie that isn’t about just having homophobic family.

Oh, yes, same.

It’s also interesting how our different perspectives are informing how we read this movie too, heh.

Myriam

Oh absolutely! I see that in almost every movie we watch together. I think it mostly stems from coming from such different backgrounds. Which I think is really good! Different perspectives can be so awesome!

Yes!! (We’re starting with yes’s again, haha.) And I love how we still end up generally agreeing on how we feel about the movie, even if the reasons we liked it might be slightly different!

There’s probably a deep metaphor that I can add here, but all I can think of to write right now is: and that’s neat!

Myriam

It is neat! We’re like two sides of the same coin! The same very queer coin.

[/fingerguns]

I feel like we should say something about the central relationship of the story (between Birdy and Jia-han), but I can’t really think of what to say other than seeming platitudes!

Like it was cute, and sweet! …Up until it imploded oops.

Myriam

Yes! Very cute and sweet. However, I was very uncomfy during the shower scene. I can’t put my finger on if that’s just the ace in me talking or if there was something actually not right with it.

They were going to slip and fall! And he was already wounded!

Oh, yes, I think we both agreed that the shower scene was uncomfortable.

He was going to get his cast wet!! You shouldn’t get your cast wet!!

Myriam

Yes exactly!

In my notes, I literally wrote, “Are you supposed to shower with a cast? Is this shower sex scene a comment on internalized homophobia? Discuss.” And I think I was being facetious, but still.

Myriam

I feel like there was also not obvious consent expressed in this scene, if anything, hesitance. Which I could be remembering totally wrong too.

Yeah, it felt very out of place in this movie, which up to this point had some very artfully shot scenes of tension and intimacy.

Myriam

Yes! I don’t think it really added anything, or took away anything. I don’t think the movie would be changed at all if it wasn’t there, tbh.

Agreed.

Myriam

Haha we have very big talk for two non-film-makers who are also ace /lh /hj

LOL, well, I’m sort of a writer!! So there.

Myriam

for all I know this could be a major point in the movie for allo folks!! 📷

Maybe, but I feel Some Kind of Way about non-Asian non-queer folks watching this movie and finding scenes like that titillating, but that’s a whole other essay, haha.

Anyway, putting all that other stuff aside, I did like the final sequence in their high school life, where Jia-han literally skips school to run off to an island and Birdy just follows him there. And Jia-han screams into the sea, and they go skinny dipping. It’s very classic but also well-executed.

Myriam

Yes! I am however getting second-hand uncomfort just thinking about the sand pictured in it.

(Yikes, the amount of sand that must’ve gotten into their pants after this.)

LOL wow don’t remind me of that sand!!

Myriam

You shouldn’t go skinny dipping on a beach! It’s not comfy.

Must’ve been a nightmare to put their clothes on again after that.

Myriam

EXACTLY!

Oh, and they still had open wounds, didn’t they? Since it was just after their fight. Wow, ouch.

I think we’re being too realistic for this movie discussion, ahaha.

Myriam

LOL. Well, it is supposed to be 70% autobiographical. Maybe the sand and wound parts are what they took creative freedom with.

Movie: poignant coming-of-age scene Us: “The sand, it burns!!”

LOL the 30% fiction is all the stuff that makes us go, “Wow, yikes.”

Myriam

Yes, yes, exactly!

Anyway, anyway, is there anything else, or can we finally talk about the best part (in my not-so-humble opinion): the ending? Hehe.

Myriam

Onto the ending!

YES. OK, so the ending kind of blindsided me, because I was not expecting a three-decade timeskip that literally brings the film into the modern day, but that’s what we got!

And I loved it! It was such the perfect capstone on the movie, because while the previous sequence seemed to imply the same old, same old with a queer coming-of-age story ending in separation/heartbreak, first love not working out, etc. etc. This timeskip felt like the director going like, “Oh, fuck that,” and just absolutely refusing to end a queer story on a bad note. Or even on a bittersweet one!

(They're adults now! And they've reunited!)

Myriam

Yes!!!!

This was very sweet!

It was “happy ending or nothing”!! And that’s just, like, the queerest thing!

Myriam

Ah yes, the queer agenda. Happy endings.

YES.

And, like, even putting aside the really sweet reunion, there was also all these bits about how much things have changed with queer rights since 1987!

Like, OK, here’s some more final context, in case folks didn’t know: Taiwan is the first Asian country to legalize same-sex marriage! And this happened in 2019, while the film was being made!

Myriam

Yes! That’s so cool!

And so at the end, when Jia-han is talking to Birdy, and he says, “Look how much things have changed since then,” it made me feel such a swelling of emotion. Because it felt like the director was literally saying, “Hey, look, we’ve made it, and while not perfect, the world has ended in a much better place than we could’ve imagined when we were teenagers under a totalitarian regime.”

Myriam

That’s such a beautiful sentiment in such a sad way!

I feel like that applies to a lot of things in a lot of places. Right now we seem to be in a very transitional period when it comes to getting better at not being a horrible society.

But then again, aren’t we always?

Yes, and there’s this very lovely quote that the director said in regards to the passing of the marriage equality bill by Taiwanese parliament:

“When I saw people celebrating on the streets, I actually felt a little bit sorrowful because for the people from my generation—who were born in the ‘70s, for example—it may be too late for them,” he says. Many were not able to catch what he calls the “train of happiness.” “I would like to highlight some of the unfortunate stories that may have come too early so they didn’t get to see the celebration that we see today.”

But also! At the end of the movie, with the reunion, I feel like he’s also saying, “It’s never too late.”

And, this might just be the Chinese side of me, but when Birdy admitted that he had loved Jia-han all along back in high school, I was so happy and awed that the director wrote that. Because such a blunt statement of emotion isn’t Done in Chinese culture. You’re not supposed to just Say That Out Loud. But the fact that he did, and that it was just so matter-of-fact, was powerful to me.

Myriam

I’m honestly at a loss of anything to add, besides: YES! Haha

I love that quote, I think it might be my favourite that we’ve come across while researching this!

Before we wrap up, do you want to exchange final ratings? that something people do during movie reviews, right?

Unless you had something else to say!

Ooh, ratings, I didn’t even think about ratings until you mentioned it.

I have a strange rating system that involves decimals, ahaha, and rating everything proportionally to everything else I watched.

What would you rate this movie?

Myriam

Hmm… I don’t think I could rate it all in one LOL

I’d say…

Acting 9/10 Cinematography 8/10 Writing 6.5/10

What a low rating for writing! LOL

Myriam

I think the only reason I rate it so low for writing is because of how similar it feels to a lot of other movies I watched LOL

Oh, there were definitely a lot of “classic” Taiwanese coming-of-age set-pieces, true. I think I’m giving extra points because the director is queer, ahaha. [/biased]

We’re going to have radically different ways of rating things, haha.

Myriam

oh gosh, well, what’s your way and I’ll match that 📷

No, no, I think it’d be funny if our rating systems are completely different! Just highlighting how differently we approach things, haha. And that’s valid.

Myriam

LOL perfect then!

Anyway, I think… Hm… An 8.8/10 for me.

Extra points awarded because that ending was so good.

Myriam

Oooh yes. I agree.

8.8 is a very good number! I think

Haha, thank you, thank you!

Any last words before we finish?

Myriam

Don’t shower with a cast on!

LOL

I had something serious too! And now it feels weird to follow that up with something serious. /lh

Myriam

LOL

Well, whatever, I’m going to do it! Because love is radical, and queer love even moreso. And that deserves to be said with 100% sincerity!

Myriam

YES

#media review #media #movie #your name engraved herein #2019 #your name engraved herein 2019 #review

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