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brokenwinebox · 20 hours

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Claire: Ominous Or Naive?

this meta is still based on @vacationship and @thoughtfulchaos773 posts on molly’s interview but i’m focusing on claire more individually as a character inspired by @yannaryartside’s meta on her (maybe purposeful?) manipulative behavior. if you would like the full context please read the following in order:

vacationship’s meta w/ molly’s interview

thoughtfulchaos773’s meta on the topic

brokenwinebox’s meta on pushing

yannaryartside’s meta on claire

↓ extra long text below

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claire is one of the most controversial characters on the show the bear. people hate the way she was messily written by the writers and others don’t seem to mind it. but the question will always be on whether the strong dislike for her character is justified or not necessary.

carmy is an integral part of claire’s story.

it’s why i struggle so much with writing claire individually, because all the writers have done is only make her relevant through carmy.

in result of that, this will be a deep dive on claire’s character, but also a deep dive into carmy as well.

you’ll be in my mind, and see my thought process on everything regarding claire, carmy, and clairecarmy. basically, you’ll see my theories and attempt to understand claire and carmy as characters. am i insane for making this? yes! this will be a pretty long post, sorry!

throughout this claire analysis, i’m going to try to approach the topic of manipulation with the most neutral tone possible. i’ll raise a lot questions and maybe you could try to fill in the blanks for yourselves. i don’t really have any experience with psychology so if anyone has more knowledge/experience on the topic, don’t hesitate to join in.

before we get into it, i think we need to raise a general question that could be used throughout this meta: does claire truly have an ominous presence or does she feel naive in the way she handles her relationship with carmy?

this is where my previous post about the pushing involving claire and marcus come into play. we don’t know the full connection with sydcarmy and what the mutual pushing entails quite yet. doesn’t mean we shouldn’t think about them when i bring this question up.

how much pushing is warranted before it becomes manipulative?

for me, the problem always stemmed from the way the dialogue was handled. at first, it almost felt like you could look right past it and enjoy the rest of show. unfortunately, the dialogue is far too glaring for me and seemingly an endless amount of people feel the same way.

it always felt like carmy could be open sometimes to what claire suggests but with way she adds unnecessary verbiage like the “owe” and “say that one more time”, it felt like this optional door was closed and now we’re watching him not even have a chance to deny or accept. hence, why in my pushing meta, i said claire gets constant (reluctant) acceptance.

claire is a character that can’t be explicitly defined. it’s probably why the panic attack from carmy was such a striking moment in his brain and for the audience. maybe claire isn’t supposed to be heavily defined because carmy himself can’t define her. she’s just a girl he ended up rekindling with but he can’t define his feelings and ultimately, their relationship as a whole.

does he love her? is she his girlfriend? if he was sure, he wouldn’t hesitate to answer.

seems like carmy is throwing metaphorical spaghetti/his thoughts on the wall/his brain, hoping some of the noodles/his past and present will stick. fak’s meddling won’t work if he’s going against carmy’s utmost inner thoughts and feelings.

that’s probably why, in his head, claire could be the perfect choice for carmy to choose romantically. claire is representative of his past and present. i’ll elaborate further into that later.

in s1e8, he mentioned before in al anon that he was trying to fix the beef because he wanted to fix his relationship with his brother. even mentioned potentially fixing the whole family.

would carmy do whatever it took to sew his family back together and continue to date someone he didn’t have strong feelings for?

now that i laid out the groundwork, let’s start from the beginning of their relationship and work our way through it until the s2 finale.

i have a frozen in time theory when it comes to clairecarmy. might be worth checking out if you want to understand my thought process.

Reunion By Grocery Store Fridges

we’re in the grocery store and carmy is getting veal stock from a grocery store fridge. carmy is looking down at the veal stock, lost in thought (thinking of sydney maybe?)

we see claire approaching through the reflection of the glass door. she freezes, probably in recognition. she asks if that’s the person she thought it was.

carmy remained silent, like he was trying to place a face to a name. they stare at each other in silence until he finally reached to what her name was.

claire was hearing about all his endeavors through mikey so, it’s not surprising she automatically recognized him. carmy probably barely hears anything from his family.

claire: “so, how’s your life been, berzatto?” carmy: “i have no idea. how about you?” claire: “i have no idea.”

they nod at each other in acknowledgment. this is possibly when they felt a kinship between each other. both can’t define what’s been going on between them in life. it was a temporary relief, kinda like ice on a bruise. maybe this was the only time claire was being real with him. that little connection he felt is what prompted him to stay with her to talk.

they’re leaning on the fridge, catching up on the other’s life. she talks about how she’s has six months in her residency in her study on emergency medicine. carmy brings up how it sounds intense, could be potentially thinking about his past intense work in the kitchen. this furthers the connection between them.

claire: “when we were like six, she fell off a fence and broke her arm and it scared the shit out of everybody. except me, i just like sat there and stared at her arm.” carmy: “cause you wanted to fix it?” claire: “i wanted to understand it.”

she wanted to understand a broken arm. is this the writers telling us she want to understand him because she assumes he’s broken? why else would the writers make her say that?

carmy talks about opening the restaurant and claire looks at him with excitement.

claire: “why what are you doing?” carmy: “opening a restaurant.” claire: “you’re doing the thing.” carmy: “trying to, yeah.” claire: “still, i love the name.”

this is when we find out that claire knows the name of the restaurant. this was always strange dialogue to me because wasn’t carmy shy? why would he talk about something that personal? and with a crush, no less.

this is when i started messing with the idea that it wasn’t carmy who told her. what if mikey told her?

carmy: “how could you remember the name?” claire: “because you’re the bear, and i remember you.”

this is claire’s attempt to reach out to him emotionally. extending an arm. a silent little, “i see you. you’re not alone.”

this is a great juxtaposition to line sydney: “you’re the most excellent cdc at the most excellent restaurant in the entire united states of america. so, what are you doing here, i guess?”

what if this is when carmy senses the lie or something off behind her words? what if he knew he wasn’t really being seen at all? maybe he senses that claire wasn’t really talking to him. (mikey? his high school presence?)

what if he saw his past through her and he didn’t like it?

i can’t get over his reaction to that line either. you would expect it to be this happy expression but it wasn’t. carmy looked lost, almost dissociated.

perhaps, because claire wasn’t being genuine after that bear line, maybe carmy senses it and that connection he felt is lost. she asks for his number which causes him to give her a wrong one. it looked like he had that same dissociated look when he was telling her his number.

in result, this naturally slides down in place with the juxtaposition to syd’s “this was my dad’s favorite spot when i was a kid. come here every sunday. special place!”

(there’s an on going theory that speculates sydney was lying about her father coming every sunday.)

this moment might be where carmy severs his connection with her entirely. this scene was never mentioned again and the writers could have easily put this into the panic attack scene to calm him down. but they didn’t. why is that?

isn’t it strange that claire, who i said isn’t ever explicitly defined, can’t even define how her life has been? she seems like a character that would be very sure of herself. what happened there?

The Phone Call

we’re in carmy’s apartment, he’s cleaning up before preparing to get ready to go to kasama with sydney. his phone rings and he answers.

carmy: “hello?” claire: “did you really give a fake number?” carmy: “claire?” claire: “should my feelings be hurt? i think they’re hurt.”

i personally wouldn’t tell a person that gave me a fake number that i was hurt. in fact, i wouldn’t be trying to get their number at all. you could always say she said it on purpose to make him feel bad but maybe she genuinely just wanted to know if it was a mistake.

carmy: “hmmm no no no sorry, that must’ve been a mistake.” claire: “you know i know you’re entire family and the faks right?” carmy: “you know all the faks?” claire: “yeah i know all the fucking faks and they’re going to come beat you up.”

this could be a lighthearted joke but it does raise the question if she doesn’t respond well to rejection.

claire: “why just why. walk me through giving me a fake number. why?” carmy: “hmm no no cause i, uh, i didn’t mean for that to happen um i’m sorry. i’m sorry it was a mistake, okay?”

it seems like carmy doesn’t like being confronted with that question. it’s pretty huge to decide on not giving someone you used to like or even a family friend a fake number.

claire: “thank you, i really appreciate that. well, i was originally calling before i found out i got fake numbered and had to ask neil for your real number to ask if you were busy today, so now i have two questions.” carmy: “shoot, yeah.” claire: “okay, one is it okay that i have your number or did you really not want me to have your number?”

claire actually making sure if he really didn’t want her to have her number is commendable but if carmy already doesn’t like confrontation on that subject, he could just automatically agree to get out of saying he doesn’t want her to have it.

carmy: “no no no no it’s uh, i want you to have my number.” claire: “okay, say that one more time.” carmy: “i want you to have my number.”

i’ve talked about this line in my pushing meta but i always thought this little interaction was interesting. this could fit pretty well into the naive narrative i asked about.

maybe those words, “say it one more time,” were pretty reminiscent of a giddy teenage girl, confirming that her long-time crush has a crush on her too.

she asks if he’s busy, he glances up at the whiteboard “call fridge guy.”

he stammers as he looks at the whiteboard (possibly trying to let her down? try to explain he’s busy?)

claire: “can you just not make this weird? like, i need a favor. my cousin bailed on me.”

why didn’t she call anyone else in the berzatto family to do it (richie or fak)? it seemed like they’re close enough. that has to be because she wanted carmy to do it. it’s pretty naive to ask your crush to do this random task to spend time with them. but is this really naive or manipulative?

claire: “do you still have that van?” carmy: “yes, no we do. we still have that van. um i am in.”

i didn’t notice this the first few times but he looks at the whiteboard twice before agreeing. maybe the first time he thought of his task of calling the fridge guy with the second being sydney and the day he was supposed to have with her.

claire: “really?” carmy: “yeah, yeah really.”

he sounded so unenthusiastic here. like he need to conjure up some form of energy to say it. to be fair, moving boxes isn’t fun at all.

claire: “okay, i’ll text you the address.” carmy: “no. no, i know where it is.” claire: “really? cause i’m worried about your number issue.” carmy: “i know where it is” claire: “you know what, i’ll give my address to fak and then he can give it to you does that sound good? and then punch you in the face does that sound good?”

she keeps talking about the faks and how she’s going to get them to beat him up. is there going to be an argument/showdown with fak (or one of them) in the show at some point?

claire: “you know he uh he told me you guys are really close and he’s your best friend.” carmy: “fak said that?” claire: “mhm.” carmy: “no no no fak’s not my best friend.” claire: “really?” carmy: “no no he is. he’s probably my best friend.” claire: “that’s interesting. to sit with. for you.”

claire saying that was always so weird to me. i couldn’t tell if she, again, was being lighthearted or making fun of him here.

earlier in the episode, carmy is in al anon talking about his family ruining anything that gave him any sort of excitement.

carmy: “i think when i was a kid, anything that would give me any sort of excitement or amusement or enjoyment, it always got kind of fucked. you know, i don’t think my family meant to ruin it or anything like that. you know i don’t think they did it on purpose. i think they sometimes just try too hard. or they make promises they weren’t able to keep.”

i don’t think it was coincidence that the moment he suggested going out with sydney, it got cancelled immediately for helping claire with boxes.

In The Car

after looking at fak, who most likely reminds him of claire, he calls claire to do another task. they're on their way to the post office.

claire: “well, no i’m a terrible driver. i enjoy the risk of it.” carmy: “i should be worried then.” claire: “yeah, really worried.”

is this alluding to carmy being in the passenger seat with claire being doomed? that he shouldn’t be in the car/relationship with her?

what does it mean that carmy is always in the passenger seat with claire (figuratively and literally) but she’s a terrible driver? especially compared to sydney who was a professional driver.

this could be a very direct message to the audience that he should be worried about his relationship with claire.

claire: “i went to med school in new york so i never drove. so, i try to make up for it. the times i’m not working.”

obviously there’s subways in new york, but what if this was trying to tell the audience something else?

didn’t molly say claire might’ve had a previous relationship where she was the one being pushed? there could’ve been a time where she was in the passenger seat just like carmy and she didn’t like how it felt.

the person she was dating always could’ve had a car. i suppose it depends on what part of new york they were living in. maybe they found a way to steer her even with a subway and it made her a figurative passenger. even though this is definitely speculative, i’ll keep it here to reflect back on later.

also what were the writers intention when they made claire go to med school in new york? it seemed like all three: sydney, carmy, and claire were in new york for some pivotal moment. what could have been claire’s pivotal moment in new york? just med school? her past relationship in (potentially) new york? or something else entirely?

why does claire love the risk of it? this could mean claire is a bad driver/pusher. does she love the risk of pushing others? is there another way to interpret this?

after their little task trip, we see that they’re parked in a parking lot.

claire: “we’ve hung out, like, so much but we’ve never actually talked.” carmy: “yeah, yeah i know what you mean.”

it’s strange to think that they’ve hung out a lot but never said anything to the other. especially when you with think on carmy, who was shy, talking about a dream he has with his brother? that’s a pretty personal thing to share with someone if they never talk. something strange is going on there, i just don’t know what it is quite yet.

it gets a little stranger with claire mentioning that she sat behind him in algebra class in freshman year. carmy doesn’t seem to remember that, like he’s completely disconnected/dissociated from her entirely. why is claire remembering all of these things but carmy isn’t? why is she doing all the pushing/driving?

what if she knew about the drawings too? is this another thing mikey mentioned to her? maybe she was trying to slowly ooze it out of him. only to end up disappointed that carmy doesn’t bother to mention it. basically erasing its potential importance to the relationship entirely.

carmy: “i wish you talked to me more.” claire: “i tried. you’re really shy.”

this is what i was talking about earlier. how can he be shy, and talk about something that personal?

what if this is telling us that claire was always a pusher in some aspect? she probably tried a few times and because she didn’t get the response she wanted, she left him alone and ultimately put their potential of a relationship to rest?

a question i brought up earlier:

would carmy do whatever it took to sew his family back together and continue to date someone he didn’t have strong feelings for?

what if this is another version of that? carmy had said here with claire, he liked to think about mikey.

mikey could be the one of the sole keys to keeping the relationship between claire and carmy alive. but will mikey be enough to get him to define that relationship and his feelings? no. and that’s probably what’s devastating. he even said in the s1 finale, carmy realized he doesn’t really know anything about mikey. you could even argue that mikey isn’t that explicitly defined to carmy, similar to claire. he could have even projected a closeness to mikey to make himself feel less alone. he could be doing same projections with claire.

what if he said the words, “i wished you talked to me more” and unconsciously meant them for mikey? carmy was always upset about how mikey closed himself off to him.

i don’t think it was a coincidence that after he said that, he mentions mikey.

carmy: “you always had so many friends. i don’t know, i really wanted that. mikey had that.” claire: “yeah mikey was cool.” carmy: “mikey was cool.” claire: “mikey was cool like he would set something on fire.”

what does this mean? didn’t mikey try to burn down the beef to get insurance money? what prompts someone to say that? to play devils advocate, maybe mikey just gave off that vibe? but wouldn’t we hear it being said from other people? i don’t remember other people describe him this way.

claire: “speaking of dead brothers (mikey), do you wanna go to a party?” wasn’t mikey kind of considered the life of the party?

this could be her attempt to reconnect carmy to him somehow.

claire: “and i feel like you really owe me.”

i’ve already said this, but i definitely think this could’ve pushed him to agree. again, purposeful or naive?

claire: “when’s the last time you went to a party?”

this felt like a those typical/cliche movie moments where the popular girl convinces and takes a shy nerd to a high school party.

The (High School) House Party

in s1e8, carmy talks about mikey’s confidence and his ability to dial any room he walked into.

carmy: “he had this amazing ability. he could just walk into a room, and he could take the temperature of it instantly. he could dial it. i’m not built like that, man. i didn’t have a lot of friends growing up. i had a stutter when i was a kid. i was scared to speak half the time. and, uh, i got shitty grades cause i couldn’t pay attention in school. i didn’t get into college. i didn’t have any girlfriends. i don’t think i’m funny.”

can you miss someone so much and in the result of that grief, they adopt their personality?

we’ve arrived at the house party, with illegal fireworks and solo cups littered around the house. it’s pretty reminiscent of a high school party, even with the police coming to bust/raid the fireworks guy (kyle).

we have claire giving him a soda instead of beer. we’ve never seen carmy drink alcohol in the show. i don’t think the writers have been explicit in how he feels about being around it. but this is relevant for this scene that i will get into later.

after claire gives him an out on staying with her while she’s talking/listening to kelly by asking if he wanted to get kelly some water.

he immediately agrees and we find him in the corner where he looks at claire, almost lost in thought. then he gets bombarded with a random inebriated person calling him logan fernello.

drunk party guy: “you did the amazing shit in senior year. the shit with the spoons.” carmy: “with the spoons.” drunk party guy: “yeah.” carmy: “yeah.”

we cut to carmy telling his made up story to a group of guys. this is when the logan persona really comes into affect. logan telling his story felt very reminiscent to mikey telling the story of seeing/meeting bill murray.

then it struck me, what if this logan persona was really mikey’s? he talked about how mikey could dial into a room. what if this was his attempt at it?

claire: “you’re a real animal, logan.” carmy: “yeah, no the thing about logan is he doesn’t give a fuck. that’s logan.”

what if he was again, unconsciously talking about mikey here? carmy was always insecure about mikey not caring for him, it only got worse when mikey cut him off entirely. with the severed connection, carmy struggled in his attempts to reconnect with him.

carmy: “that was really nice with kelly, you’re really good with that.” claire: “good at what?” carmy: “listening.”

why didn’t he say a similar line “you love taking care of people.” like he did with sydney?

listening could always be potentially surface level. it doesn’t take a lot to listen to someone. with claire, it didn’t seem like she really cared about what kelly was saying. she was just entertaining her to make sure kelly felt better. but it takes more effort to take care of all of the people around you like sydney tends to do. taking care of people takes more passion/drive.

claire: “in college people would come back to my house after parties. and i think i got really good at managing sad drunk people.” carmy: “yeah i know that feeling.” claire: “i know you do.”

this is clear a connection to donna. i can’t help but wonder why claire would think a party is a good idea if he has experience with sad drunk people? maybe because she had past experience too, she naturally started pushing him to do it in the present?

carmy: “i missed this college thing, huh?”

this could be carmy acknowledging unconsciously that he’s just making up for lost time.

claire: “why did you give me a fake number?” carmy: “i like you so much. and i feel like i missed a lot.” claire: “well there was a lot of this.”

we hear the whistle of the fireworks before they start going off once she said, “why did you give me a fake number?”

i think this is another time claire was ever really real with carmy. carmy giving her a fake number clearly hurt her enough to want to know why. she said it in a joking manner when they were on the phone. although, that could have been a (high school) façade to mask her true feelings on it.

during the phone call, she asks him if he really wanted her to have his number. he confirmed he did but it’s clear she sensed something was up because she’s bringing it up again here. that’s why this scene is so fascinating to me. this could imply claire knew he didn’t want to but pursued him anyway. why else would she bring up the number thing again? if she legitimately thought it was a mistake, she wouldn’t have brought it up again.

he smiles a bit but also he also just furrows his brows while looking down, like he can’t come up with the words. this could show he doesn’t like confrontation. he stares off for a bit before he looks at her and says he likes her.

we see the colors of the fireworks reflect on claire as she smiles but i’m not sure if it’s because she likes his words or she’s entertaining his avoidance.

she starts caressing his face. he looks off to the side with a distant look. then, he looks up at her and we see her smile. but when we cut back to carmy, his eyes are already not on her. he’s aimlessly staring to the side once again.

he always looks so dissociated from her touch whether it’s her touch physically or verbally.

they get interrupted from the police so with carmy saying the code word, they run off. claire goes back to kelly briefly and carmy heads for the car.

after claire is done checking on her, she goes back to the car where carmy is outside of it by the passenger side.

carmy: “hey, here’s a crazy idea.” claire: “hit me.” carmy: “you wanna see the restaurant?” claire: “i’d love to.”

we're headed off to the restaurant.

A Restaurant Kiss

after the (high school) house party, carmy invites her to come back to the restaurant. claire accepts, coming onto an argument between richie, nat, and syd.

this is when claire meets sydney, her romantic rival, for the first time.

i always thought it was weird for claire to introduce herself to a family she’s already close to/know. the only person that doesn’t know her is sydney. but why interrupt an entire group argument for that? either that was purposeful or just straight naive. it could have been her attempt at using her introduction as an icebreaker.

in their their kissing scene, they’re over artificial lighting, probably insinuating a fakeness in their relationship.

is it a coincidence they’re kissing in the one place where the past and present intersect?

as i mentioned in the beginning, i have this theory where claire is representative of his past and present. we won’t go that in depth with this until the fishes episode.

“when is fak getting here? does he even have real tools???” does he even have the tools to keep claire and carmy together?

in s2e3, after carmy ditched sydney to help claire’s mother with moving things into storage, we follow sydney at kasama waiting for him, she texts him to ask where he is and that she’s going to order.

in the previous texts we see this conversation:

carmy: fak said he’s on his way sydney: when is fak getting here? does he actually have real tools??? carmy: it’s fak what do you think? sydney: that’s what i thought…

this could be alluding to fak’s tools/meddling aren’t things that will keep claire and carmy together. fak has been a huge role in their relationship. we even have the s3 trailer where fak is at the hospital, telling claire that carmy loves her. but will it help? will it solve anything between them? does fak have the right/real tools to make sure they get back together?

in s2e5, right before they kiss, fak interrupts them. he was waiting for richie on the roof. carmy tries to push him out (an attempt to stop his meddling maybe?)

fak says he needs his tools.

fak: “i love you so much but i need my tools.” carmy: “fuck your tools.” fak: “very well.”

what if this was fak’s attempt to fix the forcefulness/unnaturalness of their relationship metaphorically. this relationship he kept pushing onto them? he could have also been trying to make sure the roof doesn’t cave in, making sure they’re protected from their pretend (high school) reality.

maybe that’s why fak was happy about carmy mentioning claire being with him in the restaurant. he was finally taking control over his relationship for a moment.

fak even said: “i did that.”

he could’ve been happy he didn’t need his tools for them, thinking that they’ll get this happily ever after situation.

i suppose he didn’t realize that they were dead set hurtling towards their doomed relationship.

i wonder if time will only tell who has the true/real tools to have a healthy happily ever after relationship.

The Mention: Fishes

merry christmas, lizards! we’ve made it to the halfway point. it only makes sense that this episode is in the middle of it all because of how integral it is to carmy and claire’s relationship.

fishes is when we start to see things a little more clearly. in this episode, it’s christmas time in the berzatto household. we’re reunited with nat, carmy, and mikey but we also meet new faces.

after nat and mikey have their moment, talking about not asking donna if she’s okay and mikey saying he’ll handle her, carmy comes out the door.

carmy: “hey. hey mikey could you come inside and be you, real quick? i don’t know how to deal with these people.” mikey: “yeah, i’ll be right there.”

i’ve already mentioned how carmy said mikey could dial any room but in this episode it’s almost implied he depended on it. he relied on mikey taking care of the people in the house or just in general. it would make sense that carmy used mikey’s presence to help him with making up the story in the house party. he’s probably just so used to mikey doing it, it made carmy use mikey’s personality as a sense of comfort.

this got me thinking of sydney loving to take care of people. i think it just comes naturally to her. that might’ve been the problem with mikey. he probably did it like it’s a job/chore. but how could he take care of people without taking care of himself? this could’ve led to his doom.

carmy is shifting his feet, probably in anticipation for the day ahead of him.

mikey looks at carmy before glancing down then once he looks off to the side, he tells carmy that he’s happy he’s home.

mikey: “happy you’re home, bear.” carmy: “kill you to pick up the phone?” mikey: “carm, i’m happy you’re home. okay?”

carmy, still shifting his feet, nods and looks down. it’s clear that being ignored by mikey hurts him. at this point in their relationship, it’s fairly strained. it most likely only got more strained after this christmas.

after some silence, natalie says she’s not going to ask donna if she’s okay and asks carmy if he could handle her. he agrees.

natalie: “i’m not going to ask her if she’s okay.” mikey: “that’s good.” natalie: “yeah.” natalie: “carm, will you handle mom?” carmy: “yeah, i’ll handle her.”

with that, we’re off into christmas chaos.

even though claire isn’t in the episode physically, she’s very much with them in spirit. we won’t be focusing on the episode in its entirety because we’re only focusing on claire and clairecarmy.

regardless if she isn’t there, claire is a pivotal character/role to carmy’s character in this episode. we’ll be going through the possible connections i’ve made and this past/present theory that will be used throughout the rest of this meta.

after we meet donna, carmy walks out the kitchen to most likely take a break. unfortunately for him, he gets bombarded by mikey and richie.

mikey: “merry fucking chrismas, bro.” carmy: “what?” mikey: “merry fucking christmas.” carmy: “what do you mean? guys, don’t fuck with me right now.” richie: “no one is fucking with you!” mikey: “why would you think that?” carmy: “cause your always fucking with me, that’s why i fucking think that. what do you mean?” richie: “you’re not gonna fucking believe who we just saw.” mikey: “we’re trying to tell you we ran into the love of your fucking life.” carmy: “i don’t have a love of my life.”

i thought this was interesting because of how much time has probably passed since he’s last seen claire. it would make sense that he wasn’t really thinking of her much since she was just a high school crush. maybe he thought about her in passing, but it’s not unbelievable to think he hasn’t really thought of her since.

richie: “just fucking tell him.” mikey: “claire bear.” richie: “claire bear!” carmy: “you saw claire?”

in this scene, richie and mikey sound like they’re trying to sell a car. just a lot of exposition that doesn’t really have substance when you’re trying to tell someone about a potential love interest. they make it sound like claire and carmy getting together is a must because of her looks. just hearing this dialogue alone made me feel very overwhelmed. i can’t imagine being in carmy’s shoes.

carmy: “what did you do? what did you do? what did you do?” richie: “this is a once in a million opportunity for you to score with a woman that’s stacked physically and mentally.” carmy: “you’re having a child. what the fuck? why are you talking like that?”

it is a pretty crazy thing to say isn’t it?, and having a daughter too?! does richie and mikey truly believe there’s no other woman out there? this is when i started messing with the idea that they’re selling this idea for carmy to stay at home.

isn’t it fascinating that richie ends up being put in this position where it feels easy for him to use claire as a projection because of his own failed marriage?

mikey: “it’s done.” carmy: “who asked you to do that though? that’s what i’m saying.” mikey: “it’s a christmas gift. i fucking put in a good word. i told her about napa about copen, she ate that shit up.” carmy: “nobody asked you to do that.”

what if mikey was talking him up to claire because it was his way to get carmy to stay in chicago? or knowing what he was going to do, wanted to give him something that he contributed to one last time?

i talked about it in my pushing meta that carmy could have not liked being pushed but went with it anyway. carmy in this scene very clearly didn’t enjoy the meddling/pushing. that could be why with claire, he welcomes it because he’s used to it in some kind of way.

also does claire and carmy ever really talk about his endeavors? mikey told her all about it but they seem to only talk about it a little. i remember in the house party, they talked about it briefly before claire cut it off with her question on why he gave her a fake number. even in the restaurant, i don’t remember him talking about it there. am i missing something here? how come the one thing that possibly had a massive contribution to their relationship, is never talked about?

stevie: “she’s a deeply good person. i could see why you’re in love with her.” carmy: “i’m not in love with her though. that’s what i’m saying. where did you guys get this from that i’m in love with her?” richie: “cause you used to have all those drawings!” carmy: “that’s what i’m fucking talking about though. that’s what i’m talking about. that’s what i’m saying! that’s why i think you’re fucking with me.”

was it implied that carmy actually never had a crush on claire? carmy is already considered strange to his family. if i’m right then it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that carmy genuinely just enjoyed drawing her without much else being into it. what if they misinterpreted his drawings for feelings he never had? what if he was entertaining the idea of them together (reimagining their high school days) because mikey would have wanted it?

you don’t necessarily need feelings for the person you’re inspired by. i could be mistaken here but i’ll leave it in the meta anyway for reflection.

another thought is that he could have had a crush but there’s nothing more there. a crush is just an infatuation, you’re more in love with the idea of them rather than the person themselves. that’s probably another potential reason why he genuinely had a problem with them telling him he’s in love with her.

stevie: “carm, this is a good thing.”

in my theory about claire and carmy, i had this thought of them being conduits.

carmy is a conduit for the audience to feel his presence, emotions, and for us to see the world around him in the present.

claire is a conduit of the past, being easily projected onto by mikey, richie, and fak to bring up resurfaced feelings from the past (carmy’s old crush, his claire sketches, his high school presence etc.) and carmy could use her to fall back in time. in a time where mikey is alive or his presence is more felt. this could also explain why they were frozen in time once they met. and it worked briefly but for how long? is something like this sustainable?

we won’t be focusing on the bear drawing with mikey in it’s entirety but i made a possible connection here to what i said earlier.

carmy: “i don’t need you talking to claire and acting all nice if you don’t actually give a fuck, you know?” mikey: “what are you talking about, i don’t get a fuck? why would you say that to me? carmy, i give, like, i give like a huge fuck.” carmy: “yeah?” mikey: “fuck yeah! i give like the biggest fuck.”

this seems to parallel last episode’s dialogue regarding logan.

here’s what i said:

carmy: “yeah, no the thing about logan is he doesn’t give a fuck. that’s logan.” what if he was again, unconsciously talking about mikey here? carmy was always insecure about mikey not caring for him, it only got worse when mikey cut him off entirely. with the severed connection, carmy struggled in his attempts to reconnect with him.

i just thought it was a strange coincidence. claire could potentially be channeling these feelings onto carmy and remind him constantly of the past. one thing to remember is that claire and carmy's relationship seem to always go back to the fishes episode.

finally, we meet donna in this episode/meta.

she’s crying in the kitchen, smoking a cigarette. people are sitting at the dinner table wondering when she’ll come. carmy comes into the kitchen to check on her and donna goes into how no one cares for her.

donna: “i don’t think i can do this by myself anymore.” carmy: “you’re not by yourself alright?i’m right here. i’m with you.” donna: “nobody out there gives a shit about me. carmy: “that’s not true. mom, that’s not true, we all love you so much.” donna: “i had to beg you to come home.” carmy: “i’m happy to be here, okay?”

this could potentially fit into my thought that mikey was trying to keep him in chicago to get claire and him together. if mikey takes care of donna, maybe this is a way to get carmy to be there for donna too in a way. this is a very speculative thought that i’ll just leave here.

carmy: “why, um, what’s hard, mom? what is it?” donna: “i make things beautiful for them and no one makes things beautiful for me.”

let’s go back to the previous episode for a second. claire is comforting kelly on the couch with carmy on the side.

claire: “you deserve better. well, no one’s ever made me dinner before.”

i don’t know for sure if this is a coincidence but it’s another strange parallel that needs to be shared. as i said before, claire and carmy’s relationship seem to always go back to fishes.

anyway, let’s proceed with the fishes episode.

carmy: “why don’t you just give me your hand, we’ll go sit.” donna: “no.” carmy: “mom, come on.” donna: “i’ll go in a minute.” carmy: “alright, i’ll just wait.” donna: “okay, micheal. i’ll be there in a minute.”

carmy gets this strange disassociated look. he's staring off before blinking a bit and looking down. i had to play this multiple times but she does call him mikey strangely. mothers do tend to switch up the names of their children at times but this felt a bit intentional on the writer's part.

after asking if donna is good, which seems to parallel sydcarmy with asking if the other is good, donna demands him to go sit at the table. carmy wants to wait for her but she isn’t budging and even asked if they had a problem. he shakes his head in denial and donna goes to hug him. we watch them hug for a moment before donna pulls back and slaps him.

this is when it all kind of clicked together for me in this shot.

when claire started caressing carmy’s face at the house party, it felt familiar to something else but i couldn’t quite put my finger on it until watching this episode. they’re both in the kitchen. they both led to a confrontation of sorts. they both (potentially) have mikey in the conversation. they’re both shot in this warm hue.

what were the writers intent here? does claire remind him of his mother?

is carmy avoiding claire in s3 the way he’s avoiding donna?

Morning After: Back In The Present

in al anon s2e3, carmy talks about how he has to remind himself that there’s no other shoe.

carmy: “(have to) remind myself that the sky is not falling. that, um, there is no other shoe. which is incredibly difficult because there’s always another shoe.”

it’s morning in carmy’s apartment and he is on the counter top, looking in the distance. claire comes around and they talk for a moment about the suppression test briefly (which is also connected to mikey) but after he has this interesting look. he smiles at her but he stares at her and (possibly) really sees her for the first time.

claire: “what?”

her smile kind of drops here too. his eyebrows furrow like he’s trying to find something but he’s lost. he always had this disassociated gaze with her but here it almost seemed like he’s finally trying to make a connection and couldn’t find it compared to when i said earlier about him (possibly) cutting the connection on purpose. he looks down and starts to apologize.

carmy: “i’m really sorry. i just um-” claire: “never ever apologize.”

this piece of dialogue is very glaring. claire could have meant well but telling someone to never apologize is such a red flag. especially, when you go back an episode and see that the berzatto family says i love you instead of apologizing it seems. (their relationship seem to always go back to fishes)

carmy: “i just want you to know that this is really nice. so nice that i um.” claire: “you’re waiting for the other shoe.” carmy: “that’s it.” claire: “wanna know a secret?” carmy: “yes.” claire: “nobody’s keeping track of shoes.”

why didn’t she say there isn’t another shoe? or there’s no shoes at all? instead, she said nobody is keeping track of them. what does that mean? for me, my interpretation for this was time. “nobody’s keeping track of time.”

in s1e8, carmy talks about how he lost track of time and mikey died.

carmy: “and the more he wouldn’t respond and the more our relationship kinda strained, the deeper into this i went and the better i got. and the more people i cut out, the quieter my life got. and the routine of the kitchen was so consistent and exacting and busy and hard and alive and i lost track of time and he died.”

i could be right on the shoe/time theory.

claire: “anything else you’re thinking?” carmy: “i’m thinking you’re very, very beautiful.”

more surface level compliments instead of anything that reaches emotional intimacy they need. she shakes her head and he nods. i can’t help but wonder if she was waiting for an i love you from him. at this point she had to have felt something to say it by the s2 finale. she still smiles as if she’s entertaining his avoidance like at the house party.

claire: “well break a leg, bear.”

now, i have many questions for this but all i’ll say is that it’s extremely strange to think back on who calls the other bear. isn’t it the berzatto siblings?! why is she calling him a nickname his siblings call each other? what was the writer's intention here? what was claire trying to say here?

The Uneaten Meal

there’s no dialogue in this scene so this section will be extremely short.

we see that carmy is wearing the beef shirt, something he’s never worn from what i remember. it definitely fits the narrative of what i said earlier about being in a time where mikey (or his presence) was alive.

i even mentioned how he could be adopting some of his behavior from mikey.

i also found it ironic that claire and carmy seems to have these connections with mikey but the moment he talks about his love for her to fak, “i love you, dude. let it rip,” was sent to sydney for approval.

and why wouldn’t she eat his meal that he slaved over? was she just so excited, she couldn’t wait anymore?

this is a great parallel to carmy making sydney a dish, without knowing and it being the best she’s ever had.

there’s still artificial lighting surrounding them. which could be interpreted as a fakeness in their relationship i mentioned earlier.

this is most likely the last scene where reality hasn’t set in for both of them. they’re still stuck in this place/time.

The (Warning) Panic Attack

his panic attack were the final warning bells that he couldn’t hide in the past forever. because in the end, it will all come to the surface/present. maybe claire and carmy’s reunion was the first shoe and his panic attack was the other.

the filter they have on her here reminded me of the fireworks that were reflecting back on them at the house party. fireworks in literature represents short-lived entities.

fireworks symbolism in liturature on google:

fireworks are short-lived entities; they are unimpressive before they are lit, and though dazzling while in action, they go up, explode, and are gone within a matter of seconds.

has anyone else noticed donna and claire were side by side during the panic attack the moment we get to the scene where claire is caressing his face at the house party? the same one i said how strangely it seemed to parallel each other?

in the panic attack, after the scene with claire caressing his face, it jumps straight to donna screaming. coincidence?

i have the full panic attack scene in my “carmy’s panic attack” meta so i’ll link it here for you to go watch it.

which is striking because the slap comes back in this scene but notice how it isn’t in this as saturated as the others? In fact, this scene doesn’t look the way it did in fishes. once donna slaps him we cut straight to sydney with even less saturation. he takes a breath.

in al anon (s2e3), carmy talks about how he has to remind himself to be present.

carmy: “i have to remind myself to breathe sometimes. i have to remind myself to be present, you know.”

donna’s slap could be a “wake up” moment before the present and future comes into view. then we see who that is: sydney.

sydney is representative of his present and future.

which could explain why sydney and carmy have that moment under the table claire ate at. why the music was in reverse before donna slapped him in the panic attack. it could represent time finally resuming.

what i said earlier:

he also said in the s1 finale, carmy realized he doesn’t really know anything about mikey.

which could also parallel the panic attack scene, it could be interpreted as him probably realizing he doesn’t even really have strong feelings for claire.

Breakup By A Restaurant Fridge

his panic attack was the warning and now time is up. when the clock resumed, after it got frozen in time from their first meeting, the past rushed into the surface and started to clash together.

the moment he hears that it was claire’s table, he leaves sydney, who is the present he needs. he ends up falling right back in time to claire’s table.

while carmy serves her his current food, she serves him a reminder of the past (his old boss from new york).

seeing his old boss causes him to freeze. he ends up going back to sydney with the reminder in his brain. He notices the seven fishes are cold, a family dish from the past on the current menu, and he snaps on sydney and even stumble over his words (possibly his past stutter coming back).

ultimately he asks syd to refire/warm him up. she tells him he needs to watch it, a warning to stay here in the present with her. he stills for a moment/melt, and he calms down similar to how he starts to take a breath once he saw sydney in his mind during his panic attack. he apologizes for his behavior. she apologizes as well. he leaves only to end up stuck in the fridge, another reminder of his past with claire in choosing to not call the fridge guy/not go out with sydney.

claire will channel him the past into the present, the one thing he can’t afford. It left him trapped in the fridge (a full circle moment/parallel to the fridge where they met). instead of outside of it this time, he’s inside of one where time stops to hear the past words of claire from that present day on a voicemail: i love you.

i always thought that it was weird that claire left carmy after hearing his words in the freezer. she’s a doctor, wouldn’t she want to remain there to make sure her (ex) boyfriend would live?

maybe she was so overwhelmed with his words, she couldn’t handle hearing more? at this point, everything is a mystery.

coincidentally, once she left the fridge, richie went over and called him donna. how many coincidences until it isn’t a coincidence?

in this episode, he reminded me of mikey in those moments. in the fishes episode, mikey and carmy share this very heartbreaking scene where carmy shows his sketch of the bear, the dream they both wanted. after mikey encourages him, carmy leaves in excitement. we’re left with mikey who ends up slapping himself, making the audience to deduce his suffering from his addiction.

carmy was seeing his old boss and mikey seemed to be hearing things (maybe street sounds?) in both scenes. coincidentally, carmy was hearing mikey during his panic attack before the images of food calmed him down in the s1 finale. which further explains the beef shirt carmy wore as he was making claire pasta. throughout this, he could have been trying to adopt mikey’s personality because of how much he missed him or doing it unconsciously.

then we get the parallel where we have a moment with them not being in their right mind which causes carmy to stare at the cannolis with a fork stuck into them and claire leaning on the fridge in tears.

the bear sketch and claire were also in the panic attack scene. carmy stopped communicating with syd which annoyed her the same way carmy got annoyed with mikey not communicating with him.

all could be speculation, but i think there’s something here.

in the fishes episode, we hear this story of richie and mickey’s morning after.

mikey: “things are really starting to spiral out of fucking control.” richie: “oh, we are past the point of no return.” mikey: “it’s not good. and now it’s the next morning right? we’re like fucking rocked.” richie: “rocked!” mikey: “like, i look over at him, i’m like, well jesus fucking christ man.” richie: “i’m looking at you and i don’t even recognize you at that point.” mikey: “it’s like a monster.” richie: “yeah cause you look like a fucking monster. couldn’t even tell it was you.”

this might be connected to s3 carmy.

Overall Conclusion/Questions

i’m going to talk about yannaryartside’s post a bit and try to find some kind of middleground and raise questions to conclude this post.

quoted from yannaryartside’s post:

“It is not like it is bad for Carmen to socialize and whatever. But she removed his agency completely; it feels like manipulation on many levels because she has perceived a lot of his struggle in this area; she also ignored his first reaction to going to the party and flipped her way. Carmy ended up trapped with a lot of immature young adults with whom he definitely has nothing in common. There was no space for actual empathy or connection to him to "come out of his shell." His conversations with Sydney are so natural because of this; there is connection and mutual respect, and he was very out of his shell with her.”

if i didn’t read molly’s interview, i would be ironclad that this was very purposeful on claire’s part to rope him in making him something he’s not. although, since making this meta, i’ve been trying to look at this with a little more nuance with my attempt at neutrality with her character and the topic of manipulation.

as i mentioned in my pushing meta, her offputting words could definitely push him to agree with her and let her take the wheel with him in the passenger seat (literally and figuratively)

but i couldn’t help but think about it from another perspective. i talked about mikey, richie, and fak’s lack of boundaries and how it ultimately could be something both claire and carmy don’t really understand where/when the line is crossed. they both just go along with it because that’s what they’re used to.

claire: “and i feel like you really owe me.”

that line could definitely be easily avoided on her part. it didn’t need to be said but that could have been the push that caused him to go like every other moment they ever had in regards to claire convincing him to do tasks with her.

if anything, that constant acceptance concerns me. if carmy continues to be stripped of his agency during his relationship with claire, how much did her previous relationship take from her to influence this?

how much did she learn from them? how many constant (reluctant) acceptances did she grant before they departed? when was the limit? claire’s relationship history is so vague that she could have been in that previous relationship long term and got out of it right on time for christmas. we definitely need clarification on that.

what if she barely had boundaries so she doesn’t expect it from carmy?

if she’s never learned boundaries, then who are three men that could use her for potential projection? in the end, it seems like it all goes back to fishes.

another question is, how much responsibility do you think claire should have for his lack of agency?

maybe she reverts to this immature (high school) persona because rather than admit to the pushing she might not have liked, like potentially carmy, she pushes him because she saw herself through him. remember when i said carmy is a conduit for the present? but is that manipulative or naive on her part?

the reality of it all could be, they were both just trying to entertain the others past in the present. but how could you be in the present without healing from the past?

that’s why they were frozen in time. they can’t move forward from their past when they’re together. carmy and claire’s relationship was a temporary balm where they could push their past onto each other while they relive/reimagine their high school years.

i just don’t think they realized time will always come knocking on your door eventually.

all of this to say, i don’t know what the writers are smoking over there but i might have gotten into some of their stash by accident.

i guess the other important questions throughout this analysis is how do you feel about claire? how do you feel about her after this meta? what’s next for her character in s3?

thank you to anyone who read this! i’m a perfectionist so i had to rewatch all the scenes i mentioned here over and over again to make sure i got the dialogue correct. sorry this was so long too. i hope this all made sense! my brain was going down this continuous spiral while writing. hopefully that isn’t easily conveyed here lmao. all my metas make me feel so delusional like i’m a paranoid investigator. where’s that red thread?!

feel free to respond or disagree with me!

#sydney is his present and future #long read ahead #might have to retitle this to the claire bear dissertation #feel free to link any discussions/metas on claire or clairecarmy in the reblogs #i’d love to read them all!#sydcarmy meta #sydcarmy #claire bear #carmen berzatto #sydney adamu #the bear meta #the bear fx #sydney x carmy #carmy x sydney #claire x carmy #clairecarmy

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