#...like i have seen people say that you shouldn't respect a trans person's pronouns if they are an exclusionist before and it's like...

[redeyedbastard]

Having a late night scream, because I've seen some discourse that's cropped up again and I am sick of it.

Why is it that any time an LGBT+ person is accused of bad actions, it becomes okay to not just be a bigot to that one person, but ALL LGBT+ people?

Like okay- accusations come out that some trans influencer sexted a minor. Yes, that influencer is horrible, and ABSOLUTELY deserves jail time if the accusations are true. But it's still shitty to misgender and deadname them. That's still bad. You shouldn't treat using someone's proper names as pronouns as a privilege you get to take away when they're bad, like proper gendering is a gameboy you can put on a shelf when Little Sammy is grounded.

Me believing that everyone, no matter how bad they may be (or what they've been accused of doing) deserves to have their gender respected doesn't mean I "care about a [insert bad person type]'s FEELINGS over real victims". It just means I don't see the point in being shitty to someone, even IF that someone has been shitty.

You can criticize someone for being shitty without being a bigot. It shouldn't be acceptable to go and be a shithead to someone over things they can't control (like race, sex, gender, orientation, disability, etc) even if they're shitty. If they've truly done something bad, there's plenty you can say without having to resort to inherent traits.

I'm just saying. Dr.Disrespect is disgusting, but he's still a he, and men on the whole aren't to blame for him being a perv. Same with like, Chris-chan or whoever- she's still a she (despite her actions) and she doesn't represent all LGBT+ people. It's not that fucking hard to grasp!

[tinyangryflower]

Thank you for correcting me! I must need to do more research. I have been doing research on her, but I've misinterpreted the information, I guess. A lot of people referred to her as a she and have said she was a trans woman a lot of the time, so I misinterpreted it.

I shouldn't have brought someone I still need to do more research on into the conversation. I'm really sorry for that!

Instead of citing Marsha, I will cite myself. I am a trans male, so while I cannot speak for trans women, I can speak for the trans cause.

My argument with you & people with your stance is that you seem to try to assert some expertise over people with our lives, and it's. . . well, really rather arrogant. You can list everything you've got to back your opinions up but it won't change the fact that it's an opinion.

The facts you get are from people who know just as much about us as you do and people who do not make up the whole of us. An experience, however different it may be from mine, is still valid and the person with it is allowed to open up about it. It's beyond horrible that some of the trans community demonstrates the same prejudice that they claim to hate.

But again, they do not describe all of us.

There are those of us who don't advocate for hate or disgusting behavior. Many, actually. There are also those of us who are the way we are for a reason.

Whatever it is in your mind does not matter because you are not trans—even if you supported the trans community, you would not fully understand it.

Is that an excuse for people to say whatever nonsense they feel like?

No; but you can become blinded to any positivity we promote if you become accustomed to seeking the negativity. You don't just call out negativity in the trans community. You only call out the negativity and make negative judgements based off of your negative opinions. Based off of what you believe, what you have seen.

I was dumb to argue when I mentioned Marsha P. Johnson. I need to do more research next time I cite someone, even if I think I know what I'm talking about. Mind you, I'm sure, to you, it must sound completely ironic.

But my stance is—stop acting like you understand exactly what is going on in our minds, nor anything of what we may think because you have no firsthand experience to talk about who we are nor the open–mindedness to talk of us impartially.

You can make a list of the bad trans people, but there will always be good trans people, there will always be more to our community than you would be willing to see.

Now, I'm not acting as though I'm keeping some sort of secret from you because I don't have anything to back it up. I can speak, as a good ( I do try my best to be good to people, I'm sorry I was so rude to you to begin with ), decently–knowledgeable trans person, who knows good, knowledgeable trans people.

You are judging lives you would not understand enough to arrive at enough logic to label, debunk, or explain them.

You're talking about an experience I could never understand, but for years I've identified myself as trans (or at least gender fluid), when I was 14/16, and used he/him pronouns. I wanted to be a man, I covered my breasted and wore masculine clothes. I tried even to walk like a man. It felt right to me to use different pronouns but then I changed, because that's what happens during adolescence. If you look up (I studied psychology and pedagogy at school) adolescence is a period of changes, and a 17 years old teenager is different than his/her 16 years old self. Just by one year everything changes. And that's what happened to me, I grew up and I changed.

I know a lot of trans people, one is even a close friend of mine, and in my city there was a big friends group with all trans people. After a year or two (they were like 13-16 years old) a few of them call themselves "trans".

And I want to be clear, I respect people because it's not in my character to hate, but when I say "a trans woman is not a woman" and other people say "no, it's a real woman", it makes me angry. Because we're talking of common biology that is taught in schools.

For example: Blair White is a person I respect. She (wow I'm respecting her pronouns) is a transwoman and knows she will never be a real woman, just because of biology. In fact, Blair stated that doesn't want any bottom surgery because it has many risks. And from what I've learned, that's true. But I respect Blair, a transwoman, that says what is true. Because not a lot of people (like politicians) have the guts to say that a transwoman is just a man. And I know not all trans people are bad people, but why the majority of them hate detransitioners? Why the majority of them doesn't care about women voices, about women being not comfortable sharing a locker room or a bathroom with a biological male?

So, why transwomen talk about being women even if they're men?? They shouldn't talk about it, even calling themselves woman, because they don't know what it's like to be a woman. They never grew up being one.

Us radfems rely a lot on biology when we talk about transpeople, because we can't ignore it, especially when men play sports against women and they win, or when men are being put in prisons with woman and rape them, or when in other occasions society tries to be inclusive and put men in women category and gives all the recognition to men. But that doesn't happen with men, because I never saw a transman win against a biological man in a race or in a box fight. Transpeople should have, at this point, their own categories because it's unfair for woman to compete against man that are biologically stronger than us.

(It's good to have those interactions, sorry for eventual mistakes but English is my second language and sometimes I might sound angry but that's how I normally talk)

[uncanny-tranny]

some transphobic person was in a youtuber server run by a trans woman with a lot of trans people in it and we kept asking what nuts' pronouns were and deez said "deez/nuts" after deez was refusing to answer. even after deez got banned, the server continued to respect nuts' pronouns.

That's actually kinda sweet of the server omg

[antiterf]

Okay so to make sure no ones surprised, here are some beliefs on discourse and morals.

I'm generally open to talking about them, but please do not fight me on the morals aspect. You can ask for more info but I may get meaner than I'd like if you fight me on morals, I hold them very close to me.

People generally want to do what's best for themselves and for others. Human beings inherently want to be good.

Every human life has value, one life lost is years of experience, knowledge, love, and care lost. It is never just a statistic, as only ten 60 year olds dead is 600 years love and experience of life lost.

Even with this belief I feel that if the rich don't do something about the enormous amount and wealth and power they hoard, their death is more valuable than their life like how a piñata is only beneficial when it's broke open.

Making fun of someone based on a minority status only hurts the entire group of oppressed people. Making fun of someone for their appearance will do harm to people who've done nothing to you.

Hating someone for something they have no choice in isn't going to help shit. So don't do it.

You cannot only fight for one minority because you'll end up ignoring the less privileged parts of your own minority.

No one owes you an explanation to anything, you don't owe an explanation to anyone. This doesn't mean that the person is simply obligated to believe what you say.

Your worth is not dependant on how much you're able to work and produce.

No one is worth any less for needing assistance, whether it's for an hour or for life.

Now to the not morality stuff

If the people in power are going for one minority, prepare to be next.

You can be trans without having gender dysphoria (I am dysphoric btw)

NPD and ASPD don't make people inherently abusive and to hate someone solely because they have those disorders is ableism.

Narc abuse is just emotional abuse with some specific aspects. Please stop calling every abuser a narcissist or armchair diagnosing your abuser.

Having a multisexual identity other than being bi isn't biphobic

The ace and aro spectrums exist and ace and aro people shouldn't even have to deal with the question that they belong in the LGBTQ+ community or not, they do.

Intersex people are a part of the LGBTQ+ community if they want to be.

Being a bi lesbian is valid

Having an identity that seems contradictory is valid

It/its pronouns are valid (I have had them used on me in a derogatory manner btw)

I am uncertain about transandrophobia or the other commom terms for it. I believe that afab trans people can and do experience oppression because of their agab and sex characteristics (otherwise abortion rights and healthcare wouldn't be an issue for us). But at the same time I feel like trying to make a term that centers around trans men will exclude nb people who experience the same. I have also seen many transandrophobia fighters be blatantly transmisogynistic and it doesn't sit right with me.

ACAB and BLM

Basically, I'm not against transandrophobia but I'm not for it either.

To say I don't get uncomfortable with the people who are heavily against it would be a lie though.

No person is illegal

Religion is important to many people and we can address the harm it does while still respecting the help it does as well.

I'm a psychology major but recognize that the field of psychology has a major role in determining what's "abnormal" for someone to be and is usually ableist.

Queer isn't a slur, but you should still respect people who don't want it used on them. I will use "the queer community" when talking about issues because I'm an LGBTQ studies minor and that's how we usually speak.

I believe that trans men and nb people can reclaim the T slur. Mostly because reclaiming it myself has helped a lot with my internalized transphobia.

TERFs hurt trans women the most out of anyone. I usually do not say things like that but trans women are usually their main obsession. This doesn't mean that other groups aren't hurt a lot.

If you're still in the Harry Potter fandom then you're not a trans ally. You really shouldn't be putting a book series over the millions of lives being fucked over by the writer.

You will become disabled eventually. If you're ableist then I mean this as a threat.

I'll add more as they come

[tamamonomaes]

Clearing Up Misconceptions on How Gendered Language Works in Japanese

In specifically relation to Fate, how this effects how the characters present, and why these misconceptions could be interpreted as disrespectful to the Japanese trans community.

(DISCLAIMER: I am NOT cis like people seem to think! I realise you may assume that looking at me, but it's because of medical reasons. Corrections and input from native Japanese speakers welcome and encouraged!

1 The "I pronoun" is not indicative of gender as there is no such thing as a "personal pronoun. " The "I pronoun" is not primarily focused in gender, but rather, whether they are formal or informal, who you are talking to, sometimes your age, and what mood and tone you are trying to convey. "Ore" isn't a suitable option for a "personal pronoun" in the first place as it is informal and comes off extremely rude in some situations, like a job interview, so it is likely that the ore user is going to be switching to something more polite. For example, Astolfo's pronoun of boku is not indicative of them being male as its primary focus is to represent humbleness; yes it is "primarily" used for boys, however it is also considered "cute" for young girls; basically what Astolfo's use of boku can tell us about Astolfo is that Astolfo wants to be perceived as humble, and has an element of childishness to them.

2 Within the fandom, there seems to be this urge to binarise pronouns to support certain arguments that certain characters are cis and that certain characters are trans, when in actuality, the Japanese language is already far more diverse and expresses far more freedom in it's way of expressing pronouns and gender. The absolute biggest misunderstanding comes with the use of "ore" and "atashi." Basically, people believe that anyone who uses these pronouns wants to be perceived as either hyper feminine or hyper masculine, and if someone uses one of these pronouns, they want to be perceived as either female or male. However, this is simply not what these pronouns indicate at all. While atashi is traditionally considered feminine, gay men have adopted the pronoun as a means of talking casually without presenting; the same goes for ore. While it is true it is tradionally masculine, these days, it has evolved more to present the image of being casual, as well as youth wanting to sound tough. While a woman may not usually use ore irl, it is also true that anime characters don't actually talk like real Japanese people, and female characters in anime using ore is an actual thing.

You will often see this double standard that people will say they support pronouns not being idictitive of gender in English, ie, a he/him lesbian, but then binarise the Japanese language in the sense that atashi means you present female, and ore means you present male, like NB and trans Japanese don't exist. If you were told only women use atashi and. Men ore no shade, I'm just letting you know it's more complex than that. You see this particularly with ore as it creates a "tough" image, and people believe women don't want to, or even can't, be seen as tough. If you believe someone can use he/him and be female, for the sake of respect to the Japanese language and the nb community, I ask you to do the same for men who atashi and women who use ore.

3. Grammatically, Japanese doesn't actually require the use of she/him when reffering to others. This is why you don't see characters reacting to being misgendered because, quite often they just aren't there in the original. Since they are in English, this results in the translators own perception of the character affecting how they identify in the story. There are so many instances of transphobia in fate, however, because the series is handled by so many different writers and it's hard to track down who is responsible for what, I really shouldn't have to explain to you why it is disrespectful for you to put the Japanese writers at fault for getting angry because a character is being misgendered when you're literally reading a fan translation and the pronouns just aren't there in the first place. Please stop calling out "transphobia" on the writers part because you saw Astolfo being called a he in a fan translation, or even in NA where different translators with different views have to add pronouns in. There's bigger issues of transphobia you can be focusing on rather than non-existent pronouns. The only real way you can be sure if a character is being misgendered is to check the original Japanese. But reminder certain characters using the wrong pronouns, ie, Ophelia using she/her for Caenis does not necessarily reflect the views of the writers.

Contrary to what people think, Fate does actually have a way of acknowledging certain characters as GNC. This method isn't perfect and has problems, but Astolfo, Enkidu, D'eon and Avenger Nobunaga are all canonically considered GNC with the genderless attributes in Fgo. To me this includes trans as historically D'eon is a trans woman and Nobu a trans man, but nonbinary readings of these characters are still absolutely fair, so some may disagree. If you don't consider Nobu a trans man and instead nb, you could argue that the reason Mordred isn't included because the series may have a predudice to trans men considering they want waifus and have made historical men women instead.

[yoakesan]

I've seen some posts claiming that choosing not to undertake HRT or surgeries (or even not being able to afford them) is somehow related to not experiencing gender dysphoria, and I just want to say: sorry, what?

Every trans person has a different relationship with their body. Some trans guys might be more comfortable with their genitals than others. Some trans women might be less dysphoric about their voice than others. There's no reason why anyone - and this includes cis people! - should be obliged to resemble a stereotype in order to make others respect their identity. You wouldn't tell a cis woman she's not a woman because she had to get a mastectomy for medical reasons, so why would you cringe at a trans woman who doesn't have breasts? You wouldn't tell a cis man he's not a man because he has long hair, so why judge a trans man for not wanting to cut them?

I'm sorry if I sound like a transmedicalist here - actually I don't think I have the right to decide who should be included in our community and who shouldn't -, but I think many of you really don't get the distinction between different types of dysphoria. There's physical dysphoria, which is the easiest to understand; then there is social dysphoria; and psychological dysphoria as well.

The mere fact that you're uncomfortable with others using the "wrong" pronouns when talking to you means that you DO experience a certain degree of social dysphoria. The mere fact that terms like "girl", "boy", "miss" or "sir" make you uncomfortable means the same thing!

This is what I think: you don't have to hate yourself in order to be trans. You don't have to experience ALL kinds of dysphoria in order to be trans. You don't have to be extremely dysphoric in order to be trans. It is enough to feel only slightly uncomfortable with a certain mentality, a certain social expectation or a certain characteristic of your body. Whatever you do in order to feel better about that, it's your choice. You don't have to look androgynous in order to identify as non-binary. You don't have to get rid of your breasts in order to identify as transmasculine. You don't have to wear make up in order to identify as transfeminine.

What I'm saying is that transness always involves dysphoria, even if you don't recognise it as such.

"I like my body and my overall appearance but I want to use feminine pronouns because masculine pronouns just... don't feel right". Surprise! That's social dysphoria.

"I don't want to start HRT but I like wearing clothes that are generally considered girly because they make me more comfortable, and I identify as a girl anyway". Surprise! That's social dysphoria.

"I don't want to change my body or the way I dress or the way I behave - I just want to be regarded as a person who doesn't fit into the gender binary, because that's simply what I feel I am". Aaand that's social dysphoria.

When truscum tell you "You have to experience dysphoria in order to be trans", they often mean "You have to do everything in your power in order to look like the gender you identify as, or else you're not trans". Guess what. That's transphobic. Actually, that harms both trans AND cis people for different reasons.

So you end up saying "I'm trans but I don't experience dysphoria", because you've been led to think that the only "valid" kind of dysphoria is *that* one. As if the others were a joke.

I'm sorry if I sound arrogant and kind of closed-minded. I would never exclude a person from my community even if they told me they entirely disagree with this. Please let me know what you think!