#Also kind of HAD TO post Helaena and Aegon on the same day

[moonshine999]

Athena

Goddess of wisdom, warfare, military victory, handicraft , strategy

Wisdom is a funny thing.

You never know what someone might spout as “wisdom”. To some, blatant lies are the only wisdom they have known. To others, devastating truths. 

To the rarest - prophecies. Never the full truth, never the whole lie.

“What is the power of a dragon, next to the power of a prophecy”

The earliest dreams were horrid. Blurry messes, too loud of sounds and bursts of pain that left her crying, wailing for her mother.

It was indescribable at the time, mindless words made her way through the curtain of tears while her mother sat confused, unsure of what to do or say.

But how can one respond to nonsense.

The pain ceased over time, at least she felt as such. The words still came, without rhyme or reason. 

She distracted herself as much as she could. From the stares and whispers, from the bursts and sounds, from herself and everyone else’s talks.

The words always had an edge to them.

“The young princess is sweet but a bit strange, you don’t think?” 

“Oh what a beauty the princess Helaena is, if only she could speak properly.”

“Despite her mannerisms, the Queen is a very kind woman I’m sure.”

She embroidered whenever she happened to get the time. Things around her. Normal things. The flowers, the gardens, the sun, the moon, the prettiest of birds, the vilest of animals. 

She was aware. 

Of the way people assumed her to be idiotic or peculiar. Of the way her wretched father felt about her and her siblings. Of the ways a war had to be won. 

Of entirely too much.

For someone like her.

The only time she spoke louder than she intended was at the green counsel. The oh so sweet, docile Queen Helaena damn near shouted at one of the men that a war cannot so simply be won. Silence followed. She liked silence.

She explained her reasonings. Slower than everyone else. It kept the nature of the room longer. Good. 

She stared right at the king’s smile. He looked at her and winked.

Fucking twat.

Through all her life, she had garnered many a cheery praise, many a snide remark. 

But it remained difficult.

To understand this strange wisdom. 

To have the power to dream of the future and yet have no knowledge of what to do about it. 

Because oh if only she had enough knowledge. 

If only she had enough wisdom.

“History only remembered them as Blood and Cheese.”

[emilykaldwen]

thinking about that talk with @murmel-malt about how george's ages for these kids in F&B is just... a mess. Like we know George keeps his characters young (Look at... 90% of the cast of ASOIAF being like, 20 and under or what have you) and now I'm on a distraction rabbit hole of how do differently?

Which basically boils down to extending Viserys' reign, and then putting larger age gaps between Rhaenyra's children specifically.

But I thought: Okay, let's break this down side by side for everyone else who is staring at these ages in show vs book canon and trying to make sense of it. I want you to know that you're not alone in this, and I hope this could be a helpful resource for making your own narrative decisions.

TL;DR - the show time jumps do not track and make no sense and has weirdly aged people down and also up and so you make your own decisions. I've put my age recommendations at the bottom of the post.

We know Vizzy doesn't care about the health of his wife, since good lord we know what happened to Aemma and the text specifically states it was not only how young she was when she first started getting pregnant, but also the frequency she was getting pregnant/stillbirths. Like that took a toll. Luckily for Book!Alicent, she was 19/20 when she started having children, and could handle that better

We have two years between Aegon and Helaena, and then 1-2 years between Helaena and Aemond depending on when Aemond was born, and then four years between Aemond and Daeron

With Rhaenyra, we have:

Jace was born at the end of 114 (Rhaenyra is 17, and Jace is the same age as Daeron), Luke is specified as late 115, which... doesn't make sense? Like TECHNICALLY, you could get pregnant as early as three weeks after giving birth (I googled a... lot for this) but like really?

(ETA: I'm not saying this doesn't happen, we have it seeming to happen with Aemond and Helaena, it's the same with Bran and Arya, but as I address below, It doesn't seem to fit with Rhaenyra's character)

Westeros has a 12 month calendar. Jace is a december Baby, which means late 115 means... Oct/Nov/December, which means Rhaenyra was pregnant by February with her second kid.

then Joffrey is born in 117, however it doesn't specify what time of year. We just know that when Aemond loses his eye, Joffrey is 3.

Aegon III is born towards the end of 120 (again, Oct/Nov/Dec). We know that Daemon and Rhaenyra married in 120, not even six months after the death of Laena and Laenor, who died early 120 and Laenor not long after. so with this, like, is Aegon a wedding night baby? Had Daemon and Rhaenyra started boning before they married? (I mean, likely). Then Viserys II is born in 122, then we have a seven year gap before Rhaenyra's birth of Visenya.

Like, I'm sorry, but you want me to believe that Rhaenyra Targaryen who watched her mother have miscarriage after stillbirth for the first 10 years of her life wasn't gonna be more careful about this? Like George, just because we didn't have condoms and birth control pills doesn't mean that there wasn't some kind of bc was used (and there's evidence of that in our real world).

(and like I was saying to Mo: I mean at the end of the day, these ages don't matter, since 78% of these kids died and yes I calculated that percentage, and he wasn't thinking about people digging into the age things because at the end of the day, that doesn't matter for the story he's telling)

Which then brings us to the fuzzy show logic:

The Time Jumps As Follows:

Episodes 1-2: over the course of 6 months.

Episode 3: Two Year Time Jump from previous

Episode 4: No time jump specified but Alicent's given birth. Did Rhaenyra only go to Storm's End? In the book she traveled all the way to Casterly Rock.

No time jump is specified from what I could find for Rhaenyra's wedding but to get everyone there for Rhaenyra's wedding, to put together a royal wedding, you need 6 months at least. Given how big baby!Helaena is, we're looking at a 6-10 month time jump. And I'm sorry but by ship, it's taking like, two-three days to sail from KL to Driftmark, and then you have negotiations that last more than a single conversation. So I feel safe in assuming the 6-10 month time jump between Rhaenyra's return/daemon thing to the wedding. (HOWEVER, everything I found claims there's no time jump, but that's literally impossible because people need time to travel to King's Landing as it takes at least two months from Casterly Rock/Oldtown to get to KL)

Aegon is the child we have confirmation for on his age. He is 3 years old when Rhaenyra is married. We know that Helaena, on the show, is exactly two years younger since Alicent is clearly popping any day on Aegon's 2nd birthday.

The Ten Year Time Jump

Aegon - 13

Helaena - 11

Aemond - 10

Jace - ??? Book canon states he's 4 years younger than Aemond, but there's no way Jace is 6 years old.

Luke - 4 years old. AGAIN, there's no way. I cannot confirm an age for the actor (who did a fantastic job) but he's definitely closer to 5 or 6.

Joffrey - NEWBORN vs being 3 years old at the time.

The Six Year Time Jump

Aegon - 19

Helaena - 17

Aemond - 16?????

Jace - ?????

Luke - 14 years old which makes him 8 years old during Driftmark (Luke's age was confirmed as 14 at the end, he was 13 in the book)

Joffrey - 6 years old

In the book: Aemond is 19 years old when Viserys dies, which should make him 19 years old for the final time jump. But instead Aegon is 19/20 years old.

SO HERE IS MY ADJUSTED SUGGESTION

It's just my suggestion, just my opinion, because again, none of this makes sense.

THIRTEEN YEAR TIME JUMP FOR DRIFTMARK

Aegon - 16

Helaena - 14

Aemond - 13

Jace - 10

Luke - 6

Joffrey - I mean you can keep him as a newborn to track but I don't think there's anything wrong with making him 3-4 years old IMO

ETA: adding in, Rhaenyra and Laenor talk about them trying to have a child, which means this actually builds in time for Laenor and Rhaenyra to try make their arrangement work instead of Rhaenyra just fucking off and hooking up with Harwin immediately.

SIX YEAR TIME JUMP FOR FINALE

Aegon - 22

Helaena - 20

Aemond - 18/19

Jace - 16

Luke - 14

Joffrey - 6 years (if newborn) or 10 years old.

Little Aegon - 6

Viserys - 4/5

I myself write a blend of show and book canon, but have tried to stick to show ages/timelines because frankly, more people have watched the show and I wanted to make barrier to entry easier for people. But the show timeline didn't make sense after Episode 5 so... here you go.

ETA: I FORGOT THE DRAGON TWINS but I suggest Baela and Rhaena to be the same age as Jace or Luke. Book!Canon, the dragon twins are the same age as Luke. Take that how you will.

THIS MAKES ALICENT AND RHAENYRA BOTH 17/18 DURING RHAENYRA'S WEDDING, AND 37 AT THE START OF THE DANCE.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

[not very fluent in English]

Hi! you and @aifsaath “my greatest and best authors” I love how both of you wrote Aegon and Baela in OFCIR their thoughts, their feelings, their perspective on everything and everyone. How distinct their pov to each other. It’s such a breathtaking story, very beautiful and heart wrenching. Thank you both for writing this masterpiece and sharing it with us🤍

Can you both please share with us your own headcanons of Aegon and Baela about their hobbies and childhood, what studies they excelled in?? Anything you both don’t mind sharing🤍. Again Thank you both for writing this masterpiece.

Thank you so much!! That's such a lovely thing to hear! We're really pleased with how much people are enjoying this brainrot of ours, and exploring a post-Dance world in the bookverse gives us a ton of freedom to play around with what-ifs and be self-indulgent to an extent without having to change the canon events of the Dance much, although we do embellish and take some liberties.

(answers to your question below the cut!)

As for headcanons, we have talked about their childhoods a lot (at some point we might post some small one-shots from the past, pre-war)! Our Aegon is an adhd king. In the modern world, his teachers would have been telling him he's smart but needs to apply himself. He didn't have to study hard, but would show up to lessons with the answers, which was very annoying to his siblings. He's good at languages (you'll see a bit in this upcoming chapter, Baela teasing him a bit for speaking a less colloquial Valyrian than she speaks), music, and poetry. He was a "difficult" kid, always up to mischief, especially sneaking into the kitchens to steal sweets, and became an avowed hedonist in his teenage years. He had an alcohol problem at a young age, spent a lot of time with whoring and with various lovers, and you'll see in upcoming chapters some of the backstory behind his self destructive behavior. Some of it you can probably guess at. Helaena was his bff when they were little kids, but the marriage was damaging to that relationship.

Baela's childhood was influenced heavily by Grandma Rhaenys, who had high standards for her. Book!Baela, unlike show!Baela, was betrothed to Jace as a baby, before her mother and uncle Laenor died, with the expectation that she'd be queen one day, and grandma had the task of preparing her. Baela had a strong bond with her father, who is the one who taught her all of the Valyrian rituals and traditions you see in OFCIR, and taught her how to handle her dragon, even the basics of battle, which is how she managed to survive the battle with Sunfyre. Those are things she held dear as a young woman, and she takes a lot of pride in being a repository of knowledge about Valyrian culture. Baela gets a bit of "not like other girls" treatment in canon and fanon, but we treat Baela's post-Dance rebelliousness as a kind of trauma response (canon Baela really gets the shaft post-Dance). Our Baela gets to be more involved and active, so we see more of her "raised for queenship" side come out, her manners, he political instinct (although she has to remember to hold her tongue), even her skills with embroidery, all things she was taught by grandma. So if our Baela isn't running wild in the streets, it's because she has more of a purpose than canon Baela did. You might also have noticed, our Baela loves the sea. As a child she loved swimming in the ocean with Rhaena, playing on the beach, catching crabs, running along the docks and playing on grandpa's boat. The ocean is her happy place (and as someone who also grew up on the coast-- same!). @aifsaath what else?

[lemonhemlock]

Thank you for the answer.

Ik there is a lot of tension between Alicent-antis and Alicent-fans but that's truly not where I'm coming from. My bit on Aemond/Alicent wasn't meant as a slight against Alicent or her motherly capabilities. I have little interest in looking for Alicent to prove herself in any particular capacity as a mother in these scenarios and GOTCHA! her nor her fans. That just seems unnecessarily mean and boring besides.

"this isn't about not loving or supporting her son." Yes! I meant to explore Aemond's feelings/POV. on the situation with his mother rather than Alicent feelings. Aemond's feelings on whether he feels loved or not don't reflect Alicent's true feelings regarding her son which as u pointed out are deep care, protectiveness and goodwill.

I'm already 100% convinced Alicent and Aemond love each other deeply, yet much of Aemond's personality is centred around this idea of having to behave a certain way approved by society (or at least his mother), though he has a rebellious streak - blood of the dragon or w/e. He has duties and much of his struggle and arc appears to be about him oscillating between Duty and Desire. I don't fully buy into the whole bit w/ "love is the death of duty etc" since such a dualistic approach is far too simplistic. I believe Aemond loves his mother (same how Alicent loves her children) but he is also duty-bound to do right by her and the family (same how she is duty-bound to love those children which she had as a teen with dubious to non-consent on her part).

I dont believe Helaena and Aemond have a bad relationship but I don't believe them to be as tight as I've seen Helaemond shippers paint. Aemond is courteous and protective over her but I don't instantly read that as implying a particularly good relationship.

Thank you for being so amiable, I really do appreciate it! I wish more fans would be as measured & considerate in their approach!

I understand now what you mean about analysing Aemond's POV and, similarly to you, I have always read him as teetering on the edge between conformity/duty & rebelling/desire. He has been a rule-follower all his life and has little "reward" to show for it. He's been ostracized, maimed, disabled & soon feels that he will be set aside and/or killed once Rhaenyra ascends to the throne. The one time he lets go and pursues his own desire, i.e. vengeance via Luke's eye, he loses control of the situation so badly that it fundamentally changes the course of his life. I'd be feeling some kind of existential despair at this, too.

There are a lot of interesting dynamics at play here - therapists would have a field day with this family. Imagine all the scientific articles they could write about them. On one hand, Aemond looks down on Aegon for not honouring his station, but, on the other, he craves the freedom Aegon allows himself. He feels duty-bound towards his family, but also loves how unencumbered he can be with Vhagar. I agree that duty & love are not mutually-exclusive.

As for helaemond, I've have a few posts about it in my tag where I explained my interpretation of their interactions. It's something I find interesting narratively/thematically, but not the be all, end all of things. I understand why some fans don't buy into it. But we're here to have a grand old time! :)

[emilykaldwen]

✏️😊

✏️ The first fanfiction you ever wrote? (doesn’t have to be a posted fic)

OH WOW Okay. Ummmm. Nellie Olsen and Almanzo Wilder actually comes to mind (it did not end well, she ran into the prarier with a broken heart). I must have been ten? I don't remember if it was BEFORE or AFTER I wrote Star Wars fic. But that was all circa 1997-2000 so my memory is really fuzzy on what I wrote and published and what I just wrote.

😊 The fic that you’re the most proud of?

Um, my first instinct is to say none of them? Because the ones I've put out there haven't been like, super great? But I guess if I had to pick one, it's Fight For Me (If It's Not Too Late) which is a Derek x Lydia teen wolf fic that I actually FINISHED (as in multichaptered). It's still up on AO3. Also I forgot about all the Hook x Aurora fic I actually finished. Soulmates Never Die is also really close to my heart (I ran the community back in the day on LJ).

🎨 Show us a sneak peek from a WIP!

omg omg okay uh... fuck. This is my HotD re-write I'm doing and I'm really trying to be okay with embracing that it's going to be a rewrite or canon and that it's okay? I never used to be this nervous.

(Also I couldn't indent this so sorry)

The more often you’re pregnant, the more he’ll leave you alone.

Alicent recalled the advice given to her when she could hardly move, trading barbs with the other women who thought they were giving the young queen all the advice she needed. She was loath to admit that they were indeed right. Her three babes had quickened faster than she’d expected, but her insides were crippled from generations of incest.

Lyonel Strong had always been kind to her, facilitating ravens sent from his wife, her cousin. The older woman’s messages had been a balm to her soul, but Celeste had been held at Harrenhal as she’d been prone to sickness. To have gone to sup with her father not long after Helaena was born - inconsolable or silent at the drop of a hat - and to be wrapped in the warm embrace of Celeste had been a homecoming. 

It could not replace the ache of lost friendship, but Celeste had slotted into the scarred wound that her mother’s absence had left, filling the rift with the loving, guiding hand of an older sister. Celeste Strong had the same auburn curls as her own, the same soft features, and a child of her own. And gratefully, she discovered that she was not a mother who only sat with her in hopes of chaining their children together.

Abrogail, the same age as her little Helaena, had a usually sweet temperament, and had picked up on the little quirks of the princess in the way that only children could do. Aegon had grown sullen after the birth of his brother, unhappy with his place in her lap being replaced once more.

“Daven would do the same. It’s not unusual,” Celeste offered as Helaena was passed to a maid so Alicent could pull her precious Aegon into her arms. The boy was red faced, angry and tearful with his wounds. 

“‘Laena bit me!” Aegon wailed, throwing himself into Alicent with dramatics that she couldn’t understand. On some deep level, however, she felt she understood.

I just wanted someone to tell me they were sorry for what happened to me.

Alicent pressed kisses to the soft, pale crown of her boy’s head, stroking his back as Abrogail watched him warily from her mother’s arms. 

His tears soaked the collar of her dress as she rocked him. She had not been able to rock him in so long, and she found she’d missed it. She wanted him to be little forever. She would put up with hundreds of fights just like this, if she could always hold him in her arms, protective and full of love.

She’ll kill them, if you do not protect them, if you do not make Aegon king. Your children are the threats to her rule, Alicent.

“M’sorry, Aegon,” Abrogail’s little voice came. Alicent looked at the child with her cloud of golden-red curls as she hesitantly reached out to gently pat Aegon’s back. Her boy snuffled, glaring down at her, and Alicent lifted her hand to stop Aegon’s fist from flailing out.

“That was very kind to say, Abby,” Alicent said, smiling at her little cousin and then to Aegon. “Everyone should be sorry, right?” 

His sullen expression met hers, with eyes round and a deep violet that could almost be blue. 

Alicent raised her eyebrows at her boy. “It is just and princely and honorable.”

A sigh. “Sorry, Aemond,” came his apology.

Helaena, who did not speak, merely shrieked and bared her bloody mouth.