#But I don't think that Matt CAN'T design combats that way

[midground]

I think it’ll be really neat to see how Matt Mercer fares with the Dimension 20 format. Matt tends to favor attrition-style encounter design (lots of smaller, narratively inconsequential combats meant to drain party resources ahead of the Final Fight). This style is sort of the default for how 5e assumes you’ll play (hence why Short Rests exist), and it’s a perfectly valid style choice, especially for home play and for long-form campaigns.

While I don’t mind playing that style, I find it way less engaging as a viewer when it’s used in Actual Play. As a viewer, I generally prefer the D20 format of (what I refer to as) Set Piece Encounters. Big, story-relevant fights where the PCs have most if not all of their resources and abilities from the start, often with multiple paths to victory that the PCs need to discover as they interact with the encounter.

To be clear, it’s not like Matt CAN’T do this, there are tons of examples of this kind of encounter design across all 3 campaigns (C1 BBEG fight, C2 Cathedral Fight, C2 BBEG fight, C3 Museum Heist), it just tends to be reserved more for special occasions rather than being the default. But that makes sense because Critical Role is long-form as opposed to Dimension 20′s limited-run seasons.

(I really can’t emphasize enough that Dimension 20s limited-run nature is what makes it possible for every Encounter to be a big Set Piece Encounter.)

And because Dimension 20 has SUCH a strong format of alternating Roleplay and Combat episodes, because Dimension 20 seasons are limited in scope, and the Encounters are worked out with the production team ahead of time, I’m hoping that Matt really leans into it. I’m so excited to find out what he does with a limited-run season (REALLY can’t wait to know how many episodes there will be). I’m really hoping to see him flex his Set Piece Encounter design skills in the dome.

[the-firebird69]

There's a huge number of idiots who are doing races that are weird and meaningless and we have to tell you they are stupid these are some short track on the middle of Los Angeles for some sort of NASCAR races way too small and the cars are not designed for it and they don't seem to know what they're doing I hear Matt grumbling saying they went ahead and forced it and their idiots and it looks stupid and they should be using short you know smaller cars funny cars and things like that even a small Indy car race but they're not doing that. So what kind of pissed off does it looks stupid it doesn't show anything about anything it's NASCAR and it's got the official emblem and stuff and they say that they're approved and so forth it's probably the max saying look how awful this is and stuff and they're mocking people and we don't care we know what we're doing. The robots are gone believe it or not they're gone all those robots there's remnants around and and you see them in New York and people trying to use them as service robots but can't get them to reprogram 100% cuz John remillard is there a screen around them and that's iRobot that's why it came comes from so somebody makes the killer robot and goes after the mall and kills them all really it's just destroying the hardware but that's what it's all about it's about this failed maneuver and he tries to take over New York City to prove that he's King and stuff any gets thrown out of window and we know who did it and everybody knows cuz he's always killing him. There are several other things happening one of them is the death Star the death Star is currently under siege and all of them are by the max and it is a fight and that's why Mac go support the death Star is to challenge Stan and his leadership there is an episode that happens before he gets electrocuted and that's with Mac it is a huge huge event and it's coming up real quick when he finally gets to board that death star and has control over the fleet most of it he goes boarding Darth Vader's hair ready to fight him for possession of the death Star in single combat. And there's more to it and he tells a story to stand and Stan has to stay. But it seems like it's going to be momentarily and after that Biden returns from his ship and Luke Skywalker makes his way up and he's looking for Obi-Wan Kenobi and says you kill them and no he goes up there with him and that's how he gets up there and they they are up there in the stolen ship and Luke Skywalker leaves temporarily in the millennium falcon comes back in a different ship from the empire and people wondering why and it's because he wants to try and retrieve Obi-Wan Kenobi and it is BG and he is the one with the museum so it's going on and shortly too. There's a number of people have been called out as being heinous to the morlock and they say a big list they say sons doing it but all these people are having him and he doesn't notice it all the time he's tired exhausted he's a man is powerful but these people are nasty and I think they have to run everything through one person cuz you're small it's terrifyingly bad and it ruined them and it's ending soon and possibly tonight

The scene with Luke Skywalker in the two sons is coming up today very soon

Thor Freya

[utilitycaster]

Hi, different anon- while I’m not sure I agree with you about otohan being a boring villain, I am really interested in your railroading take. Is…I dunno, mechanical railroading a thing? From an encounter design standpoint? The thing I keep coming back to is that 200+foot per round move, plus teleports and psionic leap. That’s not an encounter you can run from without big conjuration spells. 60-odd damage a round? Not a good place at level 7. What was supposed to happen, dyou think?

Hi anon! If you don't mind, I'm going to package my answer to this with a response to this really good comment from @hexagonalpeg and then I'm going to go do some work for a while.

So for what it's worth Otohan is mechanically quite interesting, and purely from a mechanical standpoint, I'd love to see a combat like that at like level 15 or something. I just found her to have no discernable personality other than GOOD EMBRACE THE DARKNESS and like, that's boring as shit to me. I don't know why she feels this and I don't care. But that's an aside.

Mechanical railroading is kind of a thing in that you absolutely can have a battle that was always intended to be virtually unwinnable. It's something Matt has done very well in the Chroma Conclave initial attacks in which the dragons were clearly stated to have a sky-high AC, and with the first fight against the Tomb Takers in Campaign 2. It's a good way to impress upon the party how strong the enemy is and give them clues on how to counteract them in the future.

Here's the problem: if you have an unwinnable (or near-unwinnable) fight, you need to have a not terribly difficult way to stop it. You can have this by having the enemy say "not worth it" or be called away before destroying everyone (Chroma Conclave); you can make running away possible (Tomb Takers); or you can convince the enemy to stand down, either by giving them what they want or showing you're not a threat, which often overlaps with the enemy deciding it's not worth the effort.

Alternately, you can have a TPK. If you are having a TPK on purpose, that is in fact valid (especially if there's going to be some group vision/turn back the clock/alternate future stuff)...but you need to make it fast. You don't draw it out.

This combat had one very specific answer reliant on only one party member in an incredibly high pressure situation in which every other thing tried had failed. Half the party is down, everyone's in single digits and low on resources, Otohan is killing her best friend, and here's the other thing. Imogen's backstory, and Laura has said as much both in and out of game, is that she feels like going into the storm means dying. Most of Imogen's meaningful conversations have been about fighting her power or learning about it but never, ever giving in. It feels entirely in character, to me, for her to resist it to the very end and ultimately have to be forced into giving in...and that's not good if the answer to the puzzle is "give in."

I think another really important factor is that the narrative leading up to this fight seemed, at least from my perspective as a D&D player, and I'd guess the cast's perspective, a slam dunk. They need to get Treshi, a plot that has already been dragging on for quite some time. They're finally in. They were planning on taking some time to get the lay of the land and call the skyship but oh look, here's a seemingly golden opportunity of a distraction, inclement weather to hide your way, and a tentative ally in this quest! Of course they'd seize it.

So anyway I think the ending - of Imogen giving in, and whatever is going to happen with the white light and everything stopping - is exactly what was intended to happen, but I think that the setup was absolutely not there for anyone to realize this, and that's a pretty significant DM-ing misstep in my eyes. It doesn't mean the story on the whole can't recover, but this just seems clumsy.

[redjennies]

I 100% agree that PCs shouldn't be dying like this to further another character's development. I wouldn't like it for any character but I'm already lukewarm bordering on uninterested in Imogen, no flack to Laura, so not my cup of tea.

Credit to Matt where credit is due, he does a lot for these stories and elements that seem rough or odd can turn around, but oh boy. If he can turn this around I'll be impressed because this was so railroaded (derogatory). Otohan was designed to jump around the map and had no trouble reading the Hells' minds so any attempt at negotiating could just become: I'm going to steal the information from your head and continue killing because Imogen still hasn't done what I wanted. Once they entered that encounter, barring miracle rolls, they weren't getting out until they were let out.

Then there's the final wisdom save which felt like an "oh shit if I don't do something the whole party is going to die" decision. Because yes it made sense for the character but it took the decision to not let go out of Laura's hands because killing her friends apparently wasn't motivating Imogen to pick the "right answer" and if she didn't let go the rest of the party would be taken down because Otohan is just Like That apparently.

It was just frustrating.

was kinda holding onto this one because it is honestly summing up everything I feel about the situation once I put my emotions aside.

the one thing I'll extrapolate on is as you touched on, I don't think Matt is a bad DM. I think Matt is normally a very good DM but this was bad DMing and I think these almost rookie-ieh cheap tactics are beneath his ability. this was bad DMing regardless of anything else. there were ways to up the stakes, there are ways to kill player characters, without doing -- *gestures broadly* that. I saw someone describe this combat as "feeling like a cut scene where you're supposed to lose" and I fully agree. this was some Kai Leng from Mass Effect 3 bullshit and that is one of the worst insults I can give a RPG, even more so to a TTRPG. it stops being D&D and starts being just a show when you start doing stuff like this and if people like that, then that's fine for them, but I'm not watching if that's the direction the series is going in. I'm not wasting hours of my life listening to other people argue about what to do next just so combat can become essentially cutscenes. I'm not getting invested in characters who are considered secondary.

like as it dragged on even Laura couldn't stop it and what is the point of roleplay or combat or player choice if we're doing that? I can't get into the whole Poetic Dice Rolls when bad dice rolls are the only way to end it. what should have been a beautiful moment in Imogen and Laudna's relationship, regardless of your read on it, is undercut by Matt making it all feel so forced. Laudna's decisions didn't matter, Chetney's decisions didn't matter, and Imogen's decisions didn't matter. Orym wasn't even given a choice. the only people you can even remotely argue had any agency were Fearne who kept wandering back into the fray and Ashton who successfully ran away. in my book, that's bad DMing no matter how you slice it, and my semi-sincere, semi-passive aggressive apologies for thinking Matt is so much better than that. he made a series of decisions that someone with his experience had to know would piss a bunch of veteran D&D players off and so long as I'm not harassing him over it, it's not really my fault as a viewer for hating it when it's breaking every common sense rule of how to be a DM. it doesn't make him a bad person or the Worst DM Ever, but he really should have thought better than to do something so tacky.

anyway this really is the last of what I have to say about it. I really appreciate everyone thanking me and sending me well wishes in the inbox. 💕 the good has truly outweighed the bad both in the past 24 hours and in the past two years, but this is my stop and I have to get off now.

[rainwolfheart]

last minute c3 predictions/hopes

putting them out into the world before the premiere tonight

Travis: an INT or WIS-based character, someone who can be tactical but in a different way than Fjord. wizard or monk?

Marisha: a race that isn't a classic humanoid. I can't see her going all the way into, like, lizardfolk, but who knows? I feel like she would have fun with something like an aarakocra or a centaur. not a full caster, idk why, just a vibe.

Liam: bard. I just feel like he would enjoy it. maybe a female character. will be bisexual even if we don't know that until much later. a character whose backstory really ties into the new lore of Marquet.

Sam: either another small race (kobold, fairy, harengon, grung, and verdan are the ones we haven't seen yet) OR a ridiculously tall race (firbolg, goliath, orc). ranged combat with partial or full magic--sorcerer? wizard?

Laura: warlock or blood hunter? I think she would have fun with a darker character who keeps secrets from the party. also I love it when she does an irish accent I think she should do that.

Ashley: she tends to play soft quiet characters who have stellar moments when they do speak up and I think that will still be the case. melee rogue or ranger? a character who's an outsider to Marquet.

Taliesin: whatever he does it will be goth and queer. a race and class that don't have obvious synergy but actually work really well together. super iconic name, at LEAST three syllables in the first name. the party immediately finds a shorter nickname within the first episode.

someone will play a brand-new race or subclass Matt designed for Marquet

the story will start in a small desert or mountain town

someone will have a mount, pet, or beast companion, on the larger side, right off the bat. Sam will mock it, even if it's his own.

Marisha will accidentally call someone by their old character's name in the first episode

a character will originally be from another continent

if nobody begins as a sailor/pirate, someone or everyone will eventually become one during the campaign