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fumifooms · 4 months

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You’re the resident chilchuck expert, so I was wondering about it there’s any canon evidence that he did smoke or drink alcohol when the kids were younger. I always thought it was something he picked up due to the strain of long jobs, when the kids were already older, but you seem to think differently and I was wondering if there was anything in canon that made you think that way!

Now that you mention it I guess it’s true there’s no evidence he did. Smoking we literally only know he does at all because of one post-canon panel where he has a pipe, so no, maybe this stick-looking thing in the panel below too though, I’m not familiar with medieval blunts eh. We’ve only gotten one panel of him and his daughters interacting when he was younger so that’s not too insightful on that end, and every time we see him young and freckled it’s in a job context so again not really where we’d expect him to be drinking. The earliest proof (/heavy implication since we don’t see inside his cup I guess) is 3 years before canon when Laios hired him, where he’s at a bar, classily placed in front of all the bottles ✨

Yes alcohol is almost certainly a way through which he copes especially with stress, so if we go with the theory he started around when work got stressful, well… Chilchuck started working as a dungeon diver ~10 years ago so when he was ~19, making Mei, Fler and Puck ~6 and ~4 respectively, so from that draw the ‘stressful enough to start drinking’ line wherever. We don’t know what he did before that with any certainty, and it could be he did odd jobs, lived off mostly mutual aid and community work, or just focused on only raising the girls. Half-foots tend to be poor and I see a lot of that in Chilchuck specifically so I don’t think he could have afforded to not have some paying work though.

Alright, so then why do I think he did drink when the girls were younger?

I give a more complete rundown of the info we do have on his alcoholism & his family with panels and references + all the speculation I make from it here. But the most targeted and objective answer I can give is:

Of course there’s just very very little we know of Chilchuck’s life with his family, and I think that’s by design too. I think the details being up in the air is to allow more nuance of the topic, like, will trying to reconcile go well, is their relationship salvageable? We don’t know, because we don’t know. So the message of giving hope a chance even if it’s a long shot, that things could truly go either way, is more relevant, impactful and meta in that way. How long was he usually away for work travels into dungeons here and there? How did he act with them? All we can really do is "it’s likely that", it’s a game of which way we think it’s more implied. There’s no right and wrong answer, it’s all Marcille-like larping the events out.

My main reason for thinking he did is that his father died from overdrinking and Chilchuck is very aware of that. He mentions his death casually in the extra about their stance in alcohol and in his Adventurer’s Bible profile, etc. He acts towards the alcohol presumably the same way his father did: with abandon, uncaring for the health effects, probably happily too considering Chil says "dying doing something you love is a good way to go". Very nonchalant. So you see what I’m saying here right, wether he started early or late, his view of alcoholism is very influenced by what he saw of his father growing up, it’s something he’s always been aware of and saw in a mostly positive light, something that was inherited you could say. It’s something that was normalized to him from a young age. Regardless or where it goes from there I do think this part is pretty inarguable. If he views it positively and we know that in the present alcohol is his favorite food that he loveees, why would he have held out on it? Personally that all makes me think he started drinking very young, especially since I don’t think they limited alcohol to age as much as modern standards (and I mean, teen drinking is obviously still a thing). And here you could argue, maybe his father only started being more alcoholic later when Chilchuck moved out, or something! And to that there’s nothing I can say except I think that’s a strained theory, and that Chil might even have largely cut contact with his family after moving out (since he and siblings are listed as almost strangers and he doesn’t seem to have much emotional attachment to his parents, but also we know he rents out his place to "a relative"), but it’s true we have no evidence. "I’ve picked up the same unhealthy substance abuse as my father haha! No big deal right haha" repeated several times to me just reeks of intergenerational trauma, & the alcoholism gene as they call it. Like effortless sliding into drinking as if it’s second nature, it’s natural after all, it’s normal after all, it just makes sense, it makes you feel good and that’s what matters.

BUT from my interpretation then we have a whole other layer: Alcohol is of course not all bad always. I think he’s always liked alcohol and drank it on occasion and it brought him joy etc etc, but I think here the implication in the question is, how much effect did his drinking have on the family relations and how early? And that isn’t so much about when him drinking started but when the alcoholism started. Addiction is defined by a habitual need, that has negative effects from filling that need (physical, psychological, social, etc) and negative effects from withdrawal. If Chilchuck drinks to cope and he can’t not cope without it, that’s addiction, if it affects his relationships, if it’s a need he has, it’s addiction. Addiction can be very insidious or look very casual, and how much people around the person are affected by it is case by case. Cheerful drunks can be sooo annoying and uncomfortable though let me tell you. Drunks are drunks. And this sounds harsh, but even if people around them don’t mind drunks it’ll still have some effects here and there, living with one can be such a challenge, ily drunks good luck with everything much like Chilchuck you deserve good things 🫡　

Ok so with the dad thing and the "ok well maybe he’s always drunk casually but it grew worse with time around when he started working as a dungeon diver" precision made, the other bit of info we have that can inform this is that Chilchuck is on a harsh diet and that alcohol is a hunger suppressant. We know Chilchuck "used to be fine not eating for two days", that literally on screen to quench his hunger so it doesn’t keep him awake he goes to drink water, drinking is his instinct to hunger. Again alcohol is a hunger suppressant and if you want info on that the internet has a lot of research and anecdotes about it. He diets to be light enough to not trigger traps, so it’s something he’d have started after dungeon diving most likely. Between the stress and the diet, yes it’s extremely likely he started going harder on alcohol after he started working in dungeons. There’s arguments on wether two days without eating is less bad for half-foots than humans, but apart from smaller portions there’s nothing that indicates half-foots should get less than 3 meals a day. They need less food but that’s because their bodies are smaller: the need is proportional to the body, not smaller than others’ races, the % of need is similar even if the kg amount of food isn’t. There’s also a popular headcanon with support basis that half-foots run hot and have a faster heartrate and whatnot, and that points towards a faster metabolism rather than a slower one: a bigger need for eating rather than a smaller one. He has the same bmi, 18, as Mickbell, but perhaps because Chil is much taller he’s less intensely visibly underweight with ribs showing than Mick during the bath extra, it’s most apparent when he becomes tallman.

Alcohol is something so important and omnipresent in his character that I have trouble believing it’s something that was part of only a small fraction of his life. It’s his immediate go-to, his no-brainer solution to a good time, I’ve sort of always assumed especially after looking at his family that it’s something he discovered decently young. Like he just acts like someone who’s always had alcohol to fall back on and started young idk. Alcohol is one of his 5 keywords. Alcoholism is very ingrained into his world view and life, his "it doesn’t matter" stance his ‘work hard play hard’ mentality his idea that the world is harsh so you get relief where you can, so it just makes sense to me that it’s always been in his life, if not actively then at least looming.

So yes, in summary, my take: Alcohol was always something he wholly enjoyed to an unwise level, but it could have been considered casual until he started working into dungeons and his need for it on a regular basis intensified. Alcohol has always had positive association to him as far as we see, so when it started being a problem he didn’t see it as such. To quote him, "I drink anytime I get the opportunity to". Why always? Approval of father’s alcoholism. Why alcoholism at all? Diet + stress & coping mechanism & emotional stunting + relationship issues, and she decided she had enough after they went out for drinks.

Conclusion

Chilchuck having drunk from a young age makes sense to me and it’s the strongest narrative angle I see on the table, but that’s objectively a me opinion, yes! There’s no evidence, moreso there’s canon basis and supporting info, but it’s all very left up to interpretation. I’ve made my own interpretations of things from the scraps we see, like everyone else making Chilwife and daughters content. Wether you have a stance on the topic or prefer to leave it vague in your takes, it’ll be a matter of what you think makes most sense, or what you’d rather believe I suppose (which is literally fine)

There’s a lot of subjectivity in even just setting up causal links like you probably noticed during this and I was careful with my word choices, because we’re just extrapolating from what we see and unless Kui states it explicitly from a reliable mouth all we can do is have informed opinions on most things. This particular interpretation is influenced by other details I’ve come to form about my interpretation of Chilchuck too, the more psychological and emotional sides of him and the timeline and how his marriage even happened, unplanned pregnancy imo. Like I hope you see what I mean, this wasn’t supposed to be a speculation post just a quick simple answer but there’s sort of just no other and concise but complete way with the subjectivity nuance to put "maybe it could be yes because of this but maybe it could be no because of this" haha

Edit: Wait the phrasing on this… Interesting. "In recent years"— This does imply that if not just his alcohol consumption increasing then the diversity and quality of it did, so either he indeed did start drinking more (not necessarily meaning he didn’t drink before) assumedly because of his wife leaving, or he started drinking other/more different kinds of alcohol maybe due to the union he formed + his experience gave him greater salary than he had previously (and no wife and family to provide money for), a mix of both perhaps.

#Also he’s a lot like my own dad so to me with how he is it’s just an immediate “oh yeah he has always drunk duh of course”#So i can admit to bias. Or to specialized knowledge and authority on analysis idk in which way that tips the balance in my favor or not lol #Dungeon meshi #chilchuck tims #meta #alcoholism #This post was meant to be short :|#-slaps chilchuck’s family- this baby can fit in so much projection #I have like 3 chil alcoholism & chil family fic wips rn weeeeee #I’m the kind of alcoholic’s kid who grew up to never touch alcohol btw so like. Ik Chil could not have drunk young i just think he did #Can we appreciate the alcohol opinion & resistance chart actually. So often in media it’s either “alcohol’s a source of fun yippee” and #“alcohol is evil”. Thank you Dunmeshi for diversity of opinion thank you for nuance i rarely feel so seen #Izutsumi deserves to tell Chilchuck he stinks #AND BY THE WAY I hope you don’t feel talked down on anon. Ik you seem to have your own interpretation already & that’s good #sometimes i was adressing like. The General Public TM more than you which is why I spent time on some things like ‘think what you want’ etc #Okok i hope that covers it. Help where does the time go #It’s the sort of thing that makes Kui’s masterful storytelling by implying things here and there until it forms a big picture frustrating #for meta. Like! You can’t prove Chilchuck has been poor/grew up in an empoverished family/environment. There’s no evidence #but also you cannot tell me with a straight face that he isn’t and hasn’t like omg. But then it takes 30 pages to explain how he’s coded #Stop showing and not telling Kui smh /j #Ask #I think a lot about the trolls comic and man he was already so tense and grumpy and yelling. I do think that guy was stress relief drinking

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general-cyno · 9 months

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Hey hey have you ever thought about how zoro breaks his body again and again for Luffy gaining scar after scar loosing eyes and shit trying to keep up with Luffy and his devil fruit and sanji with his genetically modified body. Do you think zoro wonders what will be the thing that tips him over the edge into death??? Do you think Luffy does???

well hello to you too, anon! sorry that it took me a while to answer but I love this and ended up typing a lot. so, I also apologize in advance for the long-ish read.

but yeah! actually I was sort of thinking about it thanks to some twts I saw discussing thriller bark again. I gotta say, perhaps I have a bit of a less angsty view? because the thing is... zoro's a pretty straightforward and single-minded character, which doesn't mean he's flat or lacking in depth, but his overall thought process isn't extremely complex.

though zoro treasures his life (just like his swords, both which he needs to achieve his goals), he's not naive. he knows death is a real possibility, more so in the pursuit of his dream. zoro says as much to sanji back in baratie:

zoro doesn't seek death, the opposite actually, and he refuses to die in situations he finds dishonorable or out of his control, but he's come to terms with the idea of his own death. aside from that (or additionally), zoro's most prominent traits are rooted in his deep sense of commitment, devotion and loyalty to what he wants and believes in - namely his dream and his promise to kuina. this aspect of his character doesn't change imo, rather it broadens to encompass luffy and the crew as well.

all this to say that albeit I've called it a sacrifice myself, I don't think what zoro chooses to do for luffy or the crew would count (for him) as such. it's just what he believes he must do - to achieve his personal goals as much as to ensure luffy gets to fulfill his own and to protect the crew as a whole, because they've all become intertwined with zoro's dream to begin with. especially where it concerns luffy. what good is ambition if I can't even save the life of my own captain? indeed, for someone whose end goal is to become the strongest, what's the point of doing so if his strength doesn't allow him to protect those who are important to him? the person who is most important to him?

so when zoro chooses to keep pushing himself to train harder/become stronger, to do the exchange with kuma, beg mihawk to train him or agrees to do crazy stuff like take the drug that will help him recuperate enough to fight but will worsen his injuries/pain tenfold the moment the effect wears off in wano - they're not sources of regret or decisions he sees as tragic sacrifices. he's quite like luffy too, who's made similar choices along the story.

the angst of moments like "nothing happened" for me lies more on the implications of what could've happened (zoro dying for real), what eventually did (almost getting killed in sabaody, the crew's separation) and what luffy's reaction would've been if he'd found out. I do agree luffy would ultimately respect his decision, what I don't usually agree with is that he'd be immediately okay with it. the last thing luffy wants is to lose someone he loves, less so if they get hurt trying to protect him. points at his backstory, marineford and post marineford. this is exactly why sanji insists on not letting him know.

on the other hand, imo, zoro's not trying to keep up with luffy per se... how I see it, it's more like meeting him halfway. when you're faced with how powerful luffy's become nowadays, it's easy to forget he's not infallible. luffy has weaknesses and shortcomings too. post TS zoro is even more aware of both of their limitations (he's the one who's literally experienced luffy's pain as if it were his own) though he's also become more confident in their strength and the crew's as well. zoro will do his best to stand by luffy's side and protect him/their crew, but luffy has to measure up! zoro has no qualms about reminding and demanding him to get his shit together. zoro might not reach luffy's levels of raw strength (and I'd argue he doesn't need to), still, there's other ways in which he makes up for what luffy lacks or can't do in certain circumstances. so if you ask me, it's not about keeping up - it's meeting each other in the middle and striding forward together.

as for sanji, a similar thing applies. for all their petty rivalry and their roles as crew combatants, it's important to remember sanji's more of a nurturer (he is the cook, after all) and his dream of the all blue has little to do with strength, unlike zoro's. his genetic modifications don't really become an issue (for the crew) until wano and if anything, rather than this setting him above zoro in terms of power/abilities or turning into something zoro has to catch up with, sanji relies on zoro to keep him in line if he ever endangers the crew because of it.

all in all, I don't think zoro's the type to wonder what's gonna make him kick the bucket, though he knows dying is a realistic possibility. plus, he's not the only relatively Normal Guy who's ever become crazy strong among DF users and other enhanced characters. rayleigh is a very good point of reference as to what zoro is capable of becoming or achieving, and it's no coincidence they share a bunch of a similarities too.

AND FINALLY LUFFY. I rambled about this in the tags of a post a while back but luffy is a bit of a more complicated case imo. the manga doesn't exactly provide insight on luffy's inner thoughts/feelings (he voices most of them anyway) and though he's not naive in this aspect either, especially not post TS, the story rarely lets him witness situations in which zoro's vulnerable or in real danger of dying. this leads to him sometimes coming across as insensitive or being unfair (by having almost unrealistic expectations wrt zoro) but part of it is that he sees zoro bouncing back from the seemingly impossible more often than he sees him down.

however, the way he loses his goddamn mind when mihawk hurts zoro at baratie, when kizaru almost kills him and as kuma sends him away in sabaody, is a very good indicator of how he handles the idea of losing zoro which is - not well. at all. OPLA also gave us a more blatant example of this with the near dissociation, panic, losing his appetite and actively refusing to eat etc when zoro's wounded and unconscious after his duel with mihawk.

whether he thinks about zoro dying or not is probably more headcanon/fanfic territory, since it hasn't come up in the manga itself. even so, I do believe luffy's the type who... deliberately does Not ponder about sad or potentially upsetting things. one very brief moment that stood out to me while reading was this:

luffy not wanting to remember when garp left him on his own as a kid and straight up getting mushroom-high after being separated from his friends? man.

despite his cheerfulness and confidence, luffy is at his innermost terrified of losing the people he loves and hates the idea of being alone, ever since he was a kid. he begged ace not to die, has fought time and time again to rescue his friends and bring back those who've left. zoro's not just his first crew mate but he's also been the most long lasting and steady throughout the story. as some people have pointed out - zoro is the only one of the east blue gang who's never left the crew, even if the rest all had very understandable reasons for doing it each time. so on a more speculative note, after all the losses luffy's suffered, I'd say wondering when or how zoro will die is something he'd very much avoid. the thought's likely pretty devastating. instead, it's easier to put his entire trust and faith into believing zoro will pull through anything, like luffy says in dressrosa, and zoro would accept no less than that imo - because that's the kind of trust/faith he places in luffy as well.

lastly, about the scars and such... this is where zoro and luffy's similarities are highlighted. when it comes to all the choices they make wrt their dreams or protecting their friends, those luffy understands well. he's pretty much the same as zoro in this regard. that's why he refuses to let buggy interrupt zoro's fight with cabaji and stops johnny and yosaku from interfering in his duel against mihawk, even if seeing zoro get hurt upsets him greatly. zoro and luffy match in many ways, their dreams and determination to fulfill them is one of them, no matter what they have to do or how many scars they collect along their journey as a result.

#tp #replies #long post #zolu #kind of #I hope this is somewhat coherent AJDJD #this is more about canon discussion btw. I do enjoy the idea of like....zoro and luffy having some complicated feelings abt their scars #the one on luffy's chest and zoro's eye #both which they received when they were apart from each other and could do nothing to help prevent either #I mean. I kinda wrote a wip about it #though it's never too late for oda to just come out and reveal zoro got his scar in the dumbest way possible so #there's that #anyway thank you so much for the ask I like discussing this stuff a lot

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