#Judy Winter

[rwpohl]

nathan der weise, oswald döpke 1979

[smeagol-on-my-deagol]

the fact that richard sees/wants us to see judy poovey as sort of dumb, while also seeing/wanting us to see julian morrow as some revolutionary mind when they're having the same damn thoughts is crazy to me

like near the end of the first chapter when we hear some about the class discussion, one of the points julian discusses (in simple terms lol) is how people who tend to bottle things up and stay composed all the time end up causing greater amounts of destruction when they "lose control" than people who allow themselves to lose control on occasion, but he does it with many words and references

and richard is like "wow this is awesome how sick is this guy"

then at the beginning of chapter two, judy poovey is telling richard about the time henry beat the fuck out of spike romney and she says something about how when uptight people lose it they REALLY lose it, but in terms just as simple as those

and richard just goes "yeah, i guess"

which there for sure is something to be said about the way people use words and the difference that use of language has on the way people feel about certain concepts, but you know

[academic-vampire]

The Secret History

[welivetodream]

The Greek Class didn't destroy Richard, he brought that on himself.

He chose to be destroyed and I am sure a part of him wanted to be.

He's the type of person who wants to be different, to be admired, to be apart from normal people.

That's why he tried to get in the Greek class in the first place even when Julian rejected him ounce, he wanted to be with the elites, to be exclusive.

Richard does show remorse for his actions at times but that doesn't mean he didn't find it thrilling.

He wanted an adventure, to see a tragedy, to be part of something dramatic and exciting. He was bored in his little town, around distant parents and normal friends.

He has always felt like he was above other people and he does look down on others who don't understand or follow his ideals.

His idolization of the Greek class is the reason he got destroyed, he was blinded by the opportunity to be included and accepted by them that he didn't look back at the mistakes he made for them.

Richard's story is a cautionary tale about foregoing your sanity and ethics for a broken, one sided friendship. They used him again and again, he did everything for them. Never questioning what he was really doing.

In the end, he was never a part of their group.

He was just there.

[judypooveysgf]

How did these fools go to class with the amount of alcohol they drank

[lildrogon]

why was richard, a former med student, asking henry, a person who didn't even know the man had made it to the moon, whether he should take charles, who was clearly dying, to a hospital. and then going to judy's for confirmation.

(i actually think it serves to see how deeply manipulated he was by henry to need his opinion on every single matter, even on those where he clearly was way more capable.)

[funplexflip]

No one:

Judy Poovey:

[vangoghschair]

What I thought TSH was going to be:

Spilled wine; burning love letters; dainty breakfasts; pristine bookshelves; philosophy debates; romanticised elitism; riches beyond comprehension; red lipstick; quiet; poetry novels laying open on desks.

What is actually is:

Champagne in a teapot; wearing bedsheet togas; cocaine in a burger king parking lot; cutting hair with nail scissors; drinking in a country house; fucking at a funeral; sleeping in a warehouse or a giant snail; running out of money; "cubitum eamus"; homoerotic everything; finishing assignments before the professor shows up.

[hoziercvre]

whenever i’m having a bad day, i always remind myself that henry marchbanks winter is over 6 foot, buff as fuck, and broke a dudes ribs and collarbone and not even 6 guys could get him to stop fighting

and i understand camilla a little more

[vampire-thing]

More chaotic stuff from the secret history I love: the naked barbie doll hanging from Judie Poovey's door, cocaine in the burger king parking lot, how terrible Camilla is at ironing, Charles and Francis fucking at Bunny's funeral

[vafr0]

I started rereading The Secret History

[bazberkker]

I would KILL to read TSH from Bunny’s POV. It would make for the perfect Greek tragedy and a killer thriller. Imagine reading his descent into insanity and paranoia. Imagine Italy from his perspective; his secret, almost sinful confessions to Julian; his pillow talks with Marion. I want to feel Henry’s betrayal and Bunny’s unease. I would eat that shit UP

[praisethelorde]

ngl i kinda wish richard and judy poovey fucked

[henrywinterswife]

thinking about how henry is so superstitious that he put out a saucer of milk on his porch at night to ward away evil spirits. bro must’ve not realized that he is the evil spirit 😭

[rockrosethistle]

TSH hot takes 🔥

-Julian was actually a dick. He isolated and groomed vulnerable students (do you think it's a coincidence that every single member of the greek class had a difficult home life?) into thinking that these very outdated concepts of love and power were good for them. He compared their dangerous behaviour to that of ancient gods. Then, rather than face the consequence of his actions and take accountability, he left when it mattered.

-Charles was an asshole, but he's not a scapegoat. You cannot blame all the problems on Charles, he was an addict as a result of his trauma. He needed help. This doesn't excuse him from his actions, but it explains them. At the beginning of the book he physically could not bring himself to hurt Camilla. He's not a "bad" person. He's a sick person.

-Bunny didn't deserve to die, but he was also probably going to condemn the group at some point. He didn't just die for no reason. (Believing that Bunny's death was truly pointless also means believing that Henry was an actual psychopath who killed his friend for shits and giggles.)

-Judy, Cloke and Sophie ended up the happiest. That is literally the moral of the book. Judy wasn't all tortured when Richard didn't want to hang out with her, she shook it off and kept living her life. That's literally the point.

-Richard was never in love with Camilla. He loved the idea of her, but didn't see her as a person. Because of this specific dynamic and the fact the Richard is narrating, we know nothing about her actual personality. Anything he says can be disputed, and a lot of it contradicts itself.

-Francis is not blameless or unproblematic, but of the group he probably had the best intentions. Most of his behaviour that can be interpreted as creepy can be chalked up to Richard's internalized homophobia (remember, everything is told from his point of view, and Francis was a gay man in the 80's) When you look objectively at what Francis did, you see that he made a pass, got rejected, then dropped it and moved on. There is (i think) one more attempt made later on in the book, and that is furthered by Richard and only interrupted when Charles shows up.

-Henry may be the metaphorical representative of death when talking about the book, but in the narrative it's important to remember he's also just a person. Otherwise everything he does seems beyond question, and he's assigned this label as just "evil." He was 21!! Literally still a kid

-There were not good or bad characters. The reason they hit so hard is because each of them are so layered. They all have good traits and bad traits, but calling one "evil" takes away their humanity and dismisses their complexity that makes them so great.

[judypooveysgf]

I don’t think ill ever fully understand The Secret History like Donna Tartt spent TEN YEARS writing it and some of the nods to literature , poems and mythology that are referenced probably went right over my head and others as well.Theres so much we probably don’t understand about the book like i need to fully understand it but i don’t think anyone will except for Donna Tartt