#judy poovey

[smeagol-on-my-deagol]

PART 5

reading 'the secret history' by donna tartt for the first time, here are my thoughts after reading through chapter 5:

[CONTAINS SPOILERS] obviously

— does richard papen have a thing for feet????

— "je me sens comme hélène keller, mon vieux." is so funny i wish it were said under better circumstances

— has richard been coked out this whole time?? or was him doing coke with judy poovey in a burger king parking lot just like something he was in the mood for???

— either way, it makes sense for him

— henry writing about murdering a guy in his journal and then not burning it was a crazy move

— richard is wayyyyy too chill about murder

— like man idk why you're acting like there's something wrong with bunny for having a drawn-out breakdown after finding out his best friends committed murder

— god bunny sucks so bad

— also maybe i'll take back what i said about bunny being very straight,,,, why, after arguing with your best friend, would you fall asleep in their bed??

— maybe that's just me though, either way he's got some issues

— bunny and henry's italy divorce story time

— camilla i'm gonna get you out of there

— i support women's wrongs

— calling people "hoi polloi" unironically, richard you are such a little prick

— this book is so well-written

— like i hate everyone but also i want things to go well for everyone

— the implication of both of the twins participating in the bacchanal and then bunny implying that they sleep together,,,,, y'all ,,

— "diabolical rap music"

— professor julian morrow they could never make me like you

— was going to say something about shared characteristics/parallels between julian and dionysus, but flipping to chapter 6 i see they have a quote about dionysus so

— jesus they just like murdered that guy fr

[henrywintersgf]

I love pretending to be smart talking about how TSH is my favourite book as if I understood 50% of the references in that book

[vangoghschair]

What I thought TSH was going to be:

Spilled wine; burning love letters; dainty breakfasts; pristine bookshelves; philosophy debates; romanticised elitism; riches beyond comprehension; red lipstick; quiet; poetry novels laying open on desks.

What is actually is:

Champagne in a teapot; wearing bedsheet togas; cocaine in a burger king parking lot; cutting hair with nail scissors; drinking in a country house; fucking at a funeral; sleeping in a warehouse or a giant snail; running out of money; "cubitum eamus"; homoerotic everything; finishing assignments before the professor shows up.

[lildrogon]

why was richard, a former med student, asking henry, a person who didn't even know the man had made it to the moon, whether he should take charles, who was clearly dying, to a hospital. and then going to judy's for confirmation.

(i actually think it serves to see how deeply manipulated he was by henry to need his opinion on every single matter, even on those where he clearly was way more capable.)

[bazberkker]

I would KILL to read TSH from Bunny’s POV. It would make for the perfect Greek tragedy and a killer thriller. Imagine reading his descent into insanity and paranoia. Imagine Italy from his perspective; his secret, almost sinful confessions to Julian; his pillow talks with Marion. I want to feel Henry’s betrayal and Bunny’s unease. I would eat that shit UP

[vafr0]

I started rereading The Secret History

[blondephenobarbitol]

TSH hot takes 🔥

-Julian was actually a dick. He isolated and groomed vulnerable students (do you think it's a coincidence that every single member of the greek class had a difficult home life?) into thinking that these very outdated concepts of love and power were good for them. He compared their dangerous behaviour to that of ancient gods. Then, rather than face the consequence of his actions and take accountability, he left when it mattered.

-Charles was an asshole, but he's not a scapegoat. You cannot blame all the problems on Charles, he was an addict as a result of his trauma. He needed help. This doesn't excuse him from his actions, but it explains them. At the beginning of the book he physically could not bring himself to hurt Camilla. He's not a "bad" person. He's a sick person.

-Bunny didn't deserve to die, but he was also probably going to condemn the group at some point. He didn't just die for no reason. (Believing that Bunny's death was truly pointless also means believing that Henry was an actual psychopath who killed his friend for shits and giggles.)

-Judy, Cloke and Sophie ended up the happiest. That is literally the moral of the book. Judy wasn't all tortured when Richard didn't want to hang out with her, she shook it off and kept living her life. That's literally the point.

-Richard was never in love with Camilla. He loved the idea of her, but didn't see her as a person. Because of this specific dynamic and the fact the Richard is narrating, we know nothing about her actual personality. Anything he says can be disputed, and a lot of it contradicts itself.

-Francis is not blameless or unproblematic, but of the group he probably had the best intentions. Most of his behaviour that can be interpreted as creepy can be chalked up to Richard's internalized homophobia (remember, everything is told from his point of view, and Francis was a gay man in the 80's) When you look objectively at what Francis did, you see that he made a pass, got rejected, then dropped it and moved on. There is (i think) one more attempt made later on in the book, and that is furthered by Richard and only interrupted when Charles shows up.

-Henry may be the metaphorical representative of death when talking about the book, but in the narrative it's important to remember he's also just a person. Otherwise everything he does seems beyond question, and he's assigned this label as just "evil." He was 21!! Literally still a kid

-There were not good or bad characters. The reason they hit so hard is because each of them are so layered. They all have good traits and bad traits, but calling one "evil" takes away their humanity and dismisses their complexity that makes them so great.

[praisethelorde]

I love how literally every girl on campus wanted Richard except for the girl he actually wanted (Camilla).

[ancientimes]

Personally if I had the chance to be a member of a prestigious, gay, snobby, a little bit insane, classical clique i wouldn’t fuck it up.

Rip Bunny but I’d still be alive and thriving, get on my level.

[starflame]

justice for judy poovey

that’s it, thank you.

[liv-333]

THE SECRET HISTORY HEADCANNONS

⁃ Everyone in the class loved Camilla romantically at some point, Francis often used her as a way of denying his sexuality. ⁃ Henry’s roses bloomed every year after his death, despite not being taken care of very well, on the rare occasion Richard visited Vermont, specifically Hampden he looked at the roses and found peace in the fact that nature fulfilled Henry’s wish of immortality. ⁃ Julian died not long after Henry did, the shock and disparity of the situation led him to madness and heartbreak only cured by death. ⁃ By the time Bunny was found he should’ve been already rotting, his skin grey and shrivelled. Due to the weather his body had been preserved. I can’t remember whether it states what funeral type he had in the book but since his parents were rich it was probably open casket; The sight of bunny’s body in death disturbed the class deeply, haunting them and fearing that somehow, someday he might come back, they all had mild paranoia for weeks, Henry more so than the others. ⁃ Camilla adored ‘the picture of Dorian Grey’ she read it many times, she could practically recite the first few chapters by the time she was 19, yet after Henry’s death she couldn’t read it without thinking about the at the time insignificant link he made between beauty and terror, she tried many times to read it but couldn’t without feeling physically ill. ⁃ Camilla never fell in love again the same way, she picked her men carefully, based on their similarities to Henry, although it’s mentioned in the book and is therefore cannon; she never did fall in love again, she found it, but never accepted it.

[henrywintersgf]

In another life i would be doing cocaine in a burger king parking lot with Judy Poovey

[reggiepeters-love-bot]

the secret history but its judys pov in the form of diary entries about richard and his weird friends

[wingedcupidx]

happy new year to judy poovey stans, and judy poovey stans only. the rest of you can have a mediocre new year <3

[henrywinterswife]

dark academic richards <<

[delicatenerdbluebird]

My Random Takes on The Secret History (contains spoilers)

The biggest tragedy that comes with being Richard Papen coded is you need a group like Julian's Greek class to feel normal about yourself because the rest of the world makes you feel like a misfit.

That Richard and Camilla scene where she reveals being physically abused by Charles... I feel that scene is a strong criticism of abusive households. Like Richard was used to seeing his mother getting beaten by his father and sometimes he was also a victim of his violence. And in 'that' scene, he fantasizes about doing the same to Camilla and worse. This shows it's a never-ending cycle no matter how you see it. The kids are gonna end up developing fucked up fantasies if their exposure to fucked up things is constant.

I strongly believe Henry was gonna make Richard the scapegoat had something gone sideways. And honestly, it makes perfect sense. Richard insisted on joining their class. He was an outsider. Henry could have easily made up something like Richard was envious of their group, he was jealous of his and Bunny's closeness and so he ended up killing him, something along those lines that Richard wanted to be accepted and we would not accept him instantly, naturally because of our prior history. Knowing how Henry was good with words, he could have made Richard an obsessive, disturbed freak to the FBI for all we know. Remember how Henry saved him from getting frozen to death? This incident can be perfectly used to portray him as a mentally disturbed person who would rather freeze to death than go back to his home to a normal eye.

Now Julian. Oh, Julian I knew was the red flag the moment it was mentioned he does not accept students who have different ideas than his. But to think that fucker would turn out to be the biggest crankiest bitch?!! I mean I am soo mad he was the one who fed those Dionysiac ideas to them and in the end, he just ran away?! I was baffled by how he treated Henry during that confession scene he did not even listen to him completely... Henry does not stutter HE WAS STUTTERING and Julian shoved the letter back to him... I mean the disrespect! This scene (for me at least) was a reality check that no matter how loving, cool, caring, and impactful you might think your teacher is, at the end of the day, they are gonna be a teacher and you are gonna be just a student. It destroyed my heart when Henry said he loved Julian more than his own father 😭 The worst thing you can do is take advantage of the vulnerabilities of someone who not only respects you but also loves you dearly. This mf can move mountains and I would still hate his old rat ass!

Charles and Camilla Idek what to make of them. Charles turned from a pitiable character to an entirely disgusting one for me. I accept Francis' theory that he wouldn't have made that much fuss about his interrogating situation if Camilla and Henry weren't a thing. Remember when Camilla and Henry had some secret code and he got mad why he didn't know about it? I do think camilla and henry were always a thing before it became apparent to everyone. Besides the book is from Richard's perspective, and he does seem oblivious at times.

I am not aware of the popular takes in the fandom so I don't know if this is gonna be a hot take or not but Camilla gave pick-me-girl vibes. She did not have any girl friends and looked down upon Judy (I am not asking them to be besties exactly but a little respect won't have killed) Judy only developed a weird impression about them during that party scene when Camilla dropped her drink onto her and did not apologize (or was it the opposite? i dont remember exactly but the point is Judy is not the type to judge others for no reason...she judged them after that party) Camilla's attitude could be attributed to the fact that Charles was controlling but idk

The Secret History reminded me of The Hollow Men by T.S. Eliot (some of the verses below):

We are the hollow men

    We are the stuffed men

    Leaning together

    Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!

    Our dried voices, when

    We whisper together

    Are quiet and meaningless

    As wind in dry grass

    Or rats' feet over broken glass

    In our dry cellar

   

    Shape without form, shade without colour,

    Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

So basically I am yapping here because my friend hasn't finished tsh yet and I just needed to let it all out 😩

Not to mention I absolutely love my expensive gossip boy Francis 🥺 ☕

(Thank u for reading it this far!!)