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sugarsprink · 1 year

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just realized a plot point in thh has so much more going on to it now that i have read the drk summaries, and its driving me insane

(spoilers below for both drk vol 7 and thh ch 1 spoilers if anyone wants to read. also please not since i got my information from a summary and not the source it may not be 100% correct but the general jist works enough here)

so, in drk vol 7, its revealed the person who set up the last duel noir was yui samidare herself, but not completely out of her free will. quick explanation of whar a duel noir is if you dont know: a duel noir is basically just a scenario where someone who is a victim of a past crime that was not solved/wasnt solved properly can use to get "catharsis" or basically just a personal sense of justice against the person who committed the crime against them (maybe a bad explanation but im trying to keep it short. basically all you need to know is that yui set up this duel noir mainly to get revenge on the person who kidnapped and murdered her sister, but also because kyokos life was being threatened if yui didnt do this) so ofc, kyoko is able to figure the set-up out (but not the fact that one of the main reasons yui did it was for her safety), and gets very upset over this, not understanding why she would want to do this despite them both seeing many innocent people die due to these duel noirs and feeling betrayed by someone she trusted dearly. yui is trying to apologize but uh oh! the dude who killed her sister is still alive and is shoots her with a crossbow, then kicking her repeatedly, then targets kyoko to kill. yui then decides to use her last bit of her strength to sacrifice herself, dragging the killer away to a cliff, which they ultimately fall off due to the building exploding and knocking them off.

even though kyoko felt betrayed by yui, she was still devastated, and the person who did that to her still deeply cared about her well being, using her final breathe to save her life. now flash forward to thh, right after the 1st trial. makoto is devastated to learn sayaka deceived him in order to kill someone and pin it on him. this was someone he deeply trusted, and they ended up using this trust against him, even if the plan ultimately failed in the end.

HOWEVER, this is where kyoko come in to speak with him. she tells him its an undeniable fact that his trust was taken advantage of, but the actions taken by sayaka proved that she still had some care about his well being, given the fact she had possibly hesitated the attack, and the fact she left the dying message in order to clear makotos name.

she basically tells him that even though he was betrayed and taken advantage of in the end, it was sayakas care for his life that saved him in the end, with her using her last bit of strength to write that message. do you all get what i am saying here??

kyoko approached makoto to tell him all this stuff about how sayaka cared for him even if she betrayed his trust because she knows EXACTLY how that felt, especially due the fact that kyoko never fully knew yuis intention either.

#sorry for analyzing danganronpa i like kyoko very much #and these novels are so insane #head in my hands #kyoko kirigiri #yui samidare #makoto naegi #sayaka maizono #danganronpa #danganronpa thh #danganronpa kirigiri #danganronpa kirigiri spoilers #txt

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hopeymchope · 5 months

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Having finally finished reading the DR Kirigiri light novels, here are my closing thoughts and questions.

(For background, I read these translations. Which - as I previously discussed in the first bullet of this post here - may have some small issues throughout.)

I've previously given y'all my report on how I felt / what I was thinking about this series just after passing the halfway point of the light novels, so now it's time for me to bring this whole thing home and offer some closing thoughts.

My first, dominating thought is that this would be so good to see adapted as an anime. I can easily imagine how many episodes it'd take to do each light novel and where you'd logically cut off the story... even more easy, though, would be a manga. It's definitely crying out for that kind of treatment.

Regardless of the (relatively minor) gripes I raise below? This is definitely a great series to read. You get a number of twisty, gripping mysteries, an easy-to-like lead duo, an imposingly powerful enemy force, new background on our favorite lavender-hued detective, and you even get some great new characters added to the mythos — what more do you want?

Okay, but now I'll get into the griping stuff :P For starters: Isn't it... kind of LAME to have Kirigiri repeatedly experience something so similar to the basic setup of DR1 (or any mainline Danganronpa game, really) on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS prior to DR1 ever happening??? But then she just never remotely reference any fo that experience? And YESs, of course I realize she never even obliquely references these events because these prequels weren't actually written by the time of DR1, nor even completed by DR3. But that's the kind of thing you typically want to avoid with prequels, right? ...... Even so, I guess this does take us farther into these stories deserving to be called "Danganronpa" than any other spinoff. And it's not hard to come up with excuses for why she never remotely hinted at these things; she's intentionally acting withdrawn and keeping info to herself throughout DR1 and DR3, after all. So it's not the WORST crime. It's just, like I said: kind of lame.

MORE SPECIFICALLY, let me clarify: Although the cases in DRK don't include a "mutual killing" element, you still get at least three cases where she's [1] trapped in a specific building alongside a group of people who include a killer/"mastermind," the cast subsequently being picked off one by one, and [2] said experiences are also broadcast to a viewing audience. In fact, you even get two cases where [3] the trapped participants are expected to take specific bedrooms to lock themselves in during the nighttime! And even [4] one case where there's a weird, automated "host character" overseeing the whole thing, which is being operated around a specific set of rules. That's a helluva thing, isn't it?

I've previously expressed GREAT TREPIDATION about one specific element of this series: I was told that supposedly, these light novels included evidence that Fuhito was manipulating Kyoko into hating her father, her dad was always a victim, and Kyoko never realized that she was basically molded from birth by someone who was manipulating her feelings and actions. It all made Kyoko considering Fuhito her "most imporant person" (per DR1 and UDG's captives) come off as this tragic tale where our supposed "master detective" never realized she's been a victim of gaslighting and manipulation for many years, which would change SO MUCH CONTEXT behind her life's work and her relationships with both Jin and Fuhito. HOWEVER, GUESS WHAT? None of that shit was even true! HUZZAH!!!! NOTHING in these light novels goes against what we already knew about Kyoko, Jin, Fuhito, or their relationship(s) with one another... though there is some minor new insight provided into a couple of details. We get a new look at how Jin actually cared about Kyoko from afar (via the "Jin Ex Machina" business I mentioned in the previous post), which is in line with the hints of his lingering love for her we tasted in both DR1 and DR3 without either exonerating him for his choices OR making him 100% correct. We repeatedly watch Kyoko questioning/doubting her grandfather's/family's longstanding "detective work must come above and before personal concerns" rules. And we also get a taste of Fuhito being protective of Kyoko when he learns of the kind of danger she's in — yet simultaneously having complete trust in her talent and ability to overcome said danger. Fuhito seems to even gently help Kyoko understand Samidare's actions near of the end of the final volume... although we only get a taste of his help via Kyoko's internal thoughts, so we don't know exactly what he said to her. TL/DR? My point is simply this: The DRK light novels keep the overall morality / goodness of Kyoko's family dynamics in the same place we already understood them from the games: Kyoko and Fuhito are very close and care about each other without being overtly emotional about it, there is a rift between Jin and the rest of his family over Fuhito priortizing case work above visiting his dying daughter on her deathbed, Jin clearly still concerns/cares that linger for his daughter, etc.

What's with so many scenes of "Black Challenges" or "Duel Noirs" having signs defaced to include the word "DESPAIR"? Is that just some extra branding for the main franchise's themes? Feels out of place.

I feel bad for all those orphans who adored this dude.

General thoughts on numerous new-to-DR characters: As I said in my last post about this series, Samidare is likeable but spends most of the series very thinly defined — plus she's pretty slow on the uptake. Thankfully, by Volume 4 she starts finally pulling her weight, and she gets some much-needed expansion of her background in Volume 7 (just in time for her to make some dumb decisions). Licorne is probably the second-most important new character, and he's an asshole. An interesting one, though! And he does some heroic things! .... even if he isn't really all that morally invested in helping people. He's a self-centered asshole for most of the series, frankly, and I don't care much whether he's around or not. Salvadore Yadorigi Fukuro is awesome; a straight-up superb character with a very "DR" kind of skill/talent. Yaki Hajiki is a character who's also hard to dislike, and I wish he got more "screen time," because he's very intriguing. Johnny Arp is a fascinating one, though he definitely shares some dickish behavior with Lico. Still, I'm always engaged when he's on the page. And... look, I'm fond of Meruko "Pumpkinhead" Mifune. She's fun, sure, but I also see real potential for depth that isn't explored herin.

My remaining observations/thoughts contain some spoilers for the Danganronpa Kirigiri series, so I'm putting the rest UNDER THE BELOW CUT... although I still avoid mentioning the identities of any culprits or masterminds so as to keep the primary case mysteries intact.

Yadorigi = Intelligent, quiet dude in sunglasses who looks like the answer to "What if Munakata found his chill?"

What, exactly, is the state of Yadorigi's eyesight by the end of the series? Initially, we learn that his unique eyesight is very important to his work in uncovering fraud. Later, after a blow to the head, we're told that his eyesight will never be the same as it previously was. In the final volume, he visits Kyoko while wielding a white cane. So uh... does that cane imply that SYF is now blind or very close to it? Or am I reading too much into a walking stick here?

Nothing infuriates me quite as much as when major problems in a story could be easily resolved via basic fucking communication, and a failure to communicate on a base level is absolutely CORE to why things go south in the seventh and final volume. By the time Kyoko and Yui are heading out to the case, the situation is this: Without Kyoko's knowledge, our redacted overarching mastermind (henceforth referred to as "ROM") tried to get Samidare to agree to be the culprit in this final Black Challenge. She refused. ROM then said their organization (the Crime Victim's Relief Committee) will eliminate Kyoko if Samidare doesn't play along. And then, right after saying this? ROM pretty clearly DIED right in front of Samidare, before she can ever express any intention of changing her mind or not. She is then confronted by the enigmatic Tokichiro Endo, who is basically the go-between for culprits and the organization, who demands her final answer. Based on what happens in the case immediately after this, it appears that this conversation somehow ended with Samidare refusing to be the true culprit in this case but ALSO accepting that she would be framed for the murders and take the fall. So now Samidare has a choice to make: Does she (A) trust the Crime Victims' Relief Committee to keep their promise and leave Kyoko alone so long as she keeps her mouth shut...... even though Samidare refused to meet their demands and become the case's culprit? OOOORRR does Yui (B) realize that the Committee has already broken their supposed "rules" by forcibly coercing her into being the culpri — not to mention the fact that they're routinely aiding and abetting murders — which adds up to mean that she can't trust their word and must warn Kyoko of the danger she's in now that the committee has threatened her life directly? Any thinking person should choose (B), but Samidare of course chooses (A) so the plot will happen. *FACEPALM*

The worst part of this is that EVEN when our two heroines have just barely escaped from a burning building and fled out into freezing conditions, leaving them on the razor's edge between two possible methods of death with everyone else from the case seemingly already being dead? Samidare STILL won't outright deny being the case's culprit when accused. With literally NO REASON LEFT not to come clean, she never says jack shit. And then she dies!

During the denouement, the conclusion Kyoko reaches after leaving the hospital and revisiting the scene is... murky, and I think this might be something caused by the translation methods used. It currently reads as though Kyoko reaches the correct conclusion about the case, accurately determining Samidare's innocent AND identifying the true culprit(s). However... she doesn't seem to be 100% confident in her decision? It sounds like Kiri still harbors some lingering doubts about Samidare possibly being guilty?..... Even though she sounds really confident in her (correct) conclusions immediately before that. So it's left ambiguous. Which, I suppose, is one way to maintain Kiri being the Best Detective while simultaneously leaving room for her line in DR1 about how her burns happened because she "trusted the wrong person." She almost entirely knows that she didn't actually trust the wrong person, but they have to leave some doubt so that line can exist? ...... IF this translation is even accurate on this part.

Say... why did Samidare believe she'd die on this mission? It wasn't actually any more inherently dangerous than any other mission her and Kyoko had gone on... LESS dangerous than some, I'd argue! But she prepares this whole letter for her eventual death, so she clearly thought it was a strong possibility. My only guess is that she believed Kyoko was going to be targeted for death, and she planned to fulfill her oft-promised role as Kyoko's human shield. But if that was REALLY something Samidare thought was going to happen, then she had NO REASON to not tell Kyoko the truth about everything. If they're already out to kill Kiri, then OF COURSE it's smartest to warn her about it! So: Why the "last letter"? What made you think you were fucked, Yui?

In the end, ROM's overarching mission is both a success and a failure. Do they take away Kyoko's main emotional attachment, making her withdraw even further into pure logic so she'll avoid getting hurt? Yes. Do they make her deny the value of such attachments in the first place, resulting in her staying isolated forever after? No. She 95% knows she's right about Samidare's innocence in spite of ROM's attempts to frame her; it's just the pain of the loss that makes Kyoko withdraw, not some grander conclusion about distrusting everyone. In fact? I'd argue that Kyoko's speech in DR1's Chapter 4 about accounting for emotions is a strong rebuke of ROM's entire view of the world.

....by the way, does ROM have their own copy of Junko's talent??! It sure seems like they're another "Ultimate Analyst," essentially; able to see patterns of behavior so clearly that they can essentially predict most future events.

#drk #danganronpa kirigiri #danganronpa kirigiri spoilers #drk spoilers #Salvador Yadorigi Fukurō #Kyoko Kirigiri #Yui Samidare #danganronpa light novels

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