#Langobalt

[randomnameless]

What do you think about the FE4 manga?

Wow, I feel like I'm being watched, I must be careful lol

(I assume you're talking about the Oosawa Manga?)

The art is very pretty, and it's a nice way to enter the Jugdral verse even if...

The manga isn't following the canon!

I took some time to realise it, ultimately some other people were sort of right, this manga is a licensed fanfiction about FE4 - this is the mangaka's take on the game, even if it means some plot points are modified (TFW no Hilda!) or created to add extra drama (the "Travant loved Ethlyn" triangle, or how Arvis torches Siggy that is pretty different from the game...).

So, if you want to read a manga (the 90s art is really worth it!) fanfiction of FE4 and love drama, then go ahead!

[randomnameless]

Chimming in,

The Agarthans being humans is hinted at, as you pointed out, but in a way, they're also the "reason why everything sucks" (TM) in the greater plot, if you don't drink too much tea.

And... that sucks.

Take Manfroy, he wasn't the one who told Chagall to get rid of Eldie, or if he did, he played on preexisting animosity, just like the Langobalt/Reptor/Arvis coup against Kurth.

Sure Manfroy (or was it Veld?) told Travant when Quan was going to cross the desert, but in the end, Quan died because Travant had his own beef against him (and the Manster district at large).

But no, in Fodlan, Agarthans are the cause for everything wrong, while the other "humans" can't be held liable for anything.

As for them looking like, well, they do...

Remember how Kusakihara was in charge of SoV, and Jedah (and his goons) suddenly turning blue/purple?

While I could see some dark humour/irony in Thales'n'co claiming to be original or the only real humans around, despite looking inhuman compared to Raphael'n'co, I wonder if their appearance wasn't modified through Nabatean Technology, aka Kronya having a "stone heart" and/or Solon's weird eye thing.

We know Agarthans developed some sort of magitech thanks to Sothis sharing her knowledge, so maybe their appearance is a result of this ?

Nopes could have shed more light on Agarthan and Agarthans through Larva, Barney and Epipen - but in the end, we just know that Epipen, while thinking Nabateans are a blight upon humanity and must be erased, disapproved with Thales' plan to use Nemesis, and that Epipen was "brought back" through some sort of liquid, to ultimately inhabit Barney through his proxy Larva.

Bar that?

Zilch.

FE Fodlan refused, for a certain reason, to fall back on usual clichés like "what does it mean to be human" when at least two factions pretend to be humans to justify their hatred of the third one, but through the course of both games, we see how the third faction (the nabs), despite never claiming to be human, seem to be the most "humane" ones.

There's no Sara or Salem in FE16/Nopes to try to flesh out a bit Agarthans, the closest character we have to them is Barney, and we know how much relevance they have in the greater plot (aka, no one gives a flying fuck save for 3 lines about Shez's ties to Agartha and it has no influence over the plot, compared to Billy being part Nabatean-Sothis' vessel in SS and arguably CS).

In the end, too, another flaw of FE3H is that it isn't able to make itself stand without making the Agarthans so... wildly inhuman

Like how Kronya's heart not being a heart is just. Never explained. It's just there. Fuck you if you care I guess, but also, it's a detail, and it's another detail in a pile of detail that detach the Agarthans from their supposed humanity. Because that's... who they are supposed to be. The humans who got exiled underground by Sothis after destroying the Fodlan, leading her to take her deadly nap.

The worst part is... I kinda love the Agarthans ? I don't think they are really good as a story element, because their presence undermines a lot in terms of world building, but at the same time they are so stupid fun. I love the techno-magic, I love the dubstep, I love their fucking over the top dialogue. It's fun ! It's genuinely kind of dumb honestly ! I like Thales, he's an horrible man !

And it's ... They are supposed to be human. And frankly I think humans can be disgustingly evil the way the Agarthans are, sometimes. But... FE3H puts them in a position where they just don't look human.

I think the introduction of SF-like elements to FE is, genuinely, kinda cool ! But it just never goes beyond that, and beyond being kind of a weird crutch to Edelgard's story. Hm. Not quite that. But it's like they took inspiration from Arvis and Manfroy and missed what made it interesting ? without letting Arvis get away from his actions ? And in that case, Manfroy is not a weird underground guy whose heart is not a heart and whose appearance is almost undead-like (and also no shapeshifting plot).

Then again. As I said. I like Thales. I like Thales' design, in particular, I think he looks great, and he genuinely does have some really over the top, awful, horrible dialogue that I like because sometimes I want to see a terrible stain of a guy being terrible. But man. I think it kind of removes something from the story to have everything having to be linked back to him and his dubstep people. Makes it all feel kind of detached from what sounds like the main conflict is supposed to be about, when you think about it for too long.

[banished-away]

also langobalt became lombard and this is so funny to me looks like ive found a a fellow compatriot

[crystalelemental]

Oldvis Arvis may be the only real mage Armor, but its still a pretty glaring absence I think. Besides him & Bloom, there's also Raydrik, Reptor & Langobalt. I just want Oldvis, real bad.

I’m still holding out hope for the Valentine’s Banner of my dreams.  Old Arvis with Julia, Seliph with Sigurd and Deirdre.  Maybe Arvis can be the Duo with a young Julius.  Believe with me, Anon.  Lift up your hands.  Give Genealogy your energy.

[randomnameless]

Eh -

Seliph mainly, at the start of his adventure, fights against the Empire because they are hunting him, and also, because he wants to avenge his father and clear his name.

SS!Billy and the BESF "forgot" the events of White Clouds and Flamey, so we can't compare them to Seliph, because Seliph's reasoning (part of it) is to get revenge/make Arvis pay for what happened in the first gen.

No one is SS gives a fuck about Flamey - instead we just have the cast, legitimately, agreeing to fight against Supreme Leader because she started a war.

The SS cast would imo be closer to a "Camus" type of people who, at one point, accepted the nonsense their leader was doing only to rebel after a certain point, than Seliph who is the direct consequence, and reminds the player, of Arvis' actions and treachery in the first gen.

Also imo I think it's important to note that while Sigurd wasn't the smartest knife from the bunch, all of his actions were "authorised" by his benevolent king, Azmur.

Or at least he tought so.

When Sigurd is effectively framed as a rebel, from Chapter 4 onwards, he takes safety measures - protecting his son and cousin (or whatever Oifey was to him) - but still marches onwards, to clear his and his father's name and save the old guy, but also, take revenge at Langbalt/Reptor for having killed their liege.

Put in other words, even if Siggy is played for a fool and ultimately dies because he trusts people and is the "by text" good knight, who helps a lady who takes him under a wing, even if it means taking part in a succession crisis, and first and foremost, was branded a traitor by his country because he refused to kill a child (who was the Prince of an enemy nation, but was still a child!).

In chapter 5, Siggy still has doubts about Arvis' support, and yet chooses to trust him because he thinks they both want the same thing, to restore peace to Granvalle and stop Langobalt/Reptor's rebellion.

We know how that ends.

Tru Piss Billy becomes a yes man, even if they manage to look away when Flayn'n'Seteth escape, and it's inferred they don't reveal to Supreme Leader anything about Indech.

But they can kill Claude, Dimitri and Rhea herself. Tru Piss Billy cannot take revenge for their father - unlike Siggy - because Supreme Leader is still working with the Agarthans, and somehow, taking Rhea out because she has pointy ears is more important than, hm, revenge for Jeralt, freaking out because of the Feral Ones, and all the events that happened in White Clouds.

If protecting Supreme Leader and Shanan could be seen as similar actions in a, frankly, very superficial reading (tfw Shanan didn't try to kill Midir 15 seconds before that fateful choice) - Sigurd, still tries to do the "right" thing, he will marry Deedee because "love is stronger than superstitious nonsense" (except when it's not!), Siggy will "accidently" invade Agustria to save his friend's sister, and will do his best to spare said friend when their forces will have to clash, Siggy will assist Rhana when her brothers in law will try to kill her to take Silesse's throne.

CF!Billy? Will kill Judith, possibly Claude but definitely Hilda, and Dimitri because... Supreme Leader said so.

If Siggy's most callous actions "you invaded two sovereign lands you idiot!" can be chalked up to, uhh, his desire to help his friends and missing entirely the context, which leaves him at the mercy of more astute players, Billy ?

Just kills because they're asked to.

They're not rushing to save a friend from being seduced when they storm through Derdriu - Supreme Leader said the BESF will flatten the Alliance. Billy is not trying to save a friend from being executed when they're invading Faerghus and killing the BL gang in Tailtean, they do so because Supreme Leader wants to unite the world and asked for every enemy commander's head. Billy isn't trying to clear their name and avenge their liege when they behead Rhea, they do so because Supreme Leader said her path leads to the death of "creatures masquerading as humans" to make a world for humans.

You know, with how Houses was based on FE4… the whole conflict between the game's surface level and the finer details that challenge it can feel like it's asking players to learn from Sigurd.

Think about it, Sigurd trusted future Flame Emperor Arvis because Arvis acted honorable and helpful to him. Sigurd also didn't think too deeply about the politics around him, he just looked at things in a very black and white manner where he could solve problems through the use of force. He might have had good intentions, but those good intentions played right into the hands of those using him for their own gains.

Now look at Byleth and Edelgard, the Flame Emperor. Byleth getting close to Edelgard after she appears vulnerable to him can result in him siding with her over Rhea, who the early game made out as someone we needed to watch out for. However, the game heavily implies that Edelgard is simply trying to sway Byleth to her side, manipulating him like she does so many. It also means ignoring the worldbuilding and story events that conflicted with the idea of Edelgard being a good guy, and going around fighting everyone opposed to her annexing the entire continent. Even if you have good intentions siding with Edelgard, you played into her hands and because of you a villain is going to win the war.

Cipher put Silver Snow alongside the second half of FE4 with it's Black Eagle expansion, making fighting one Flame Emperor comparable to the other. So in that regard, the route split ultimately asks whether the player wants to be a Sigurd and be exploited by the villain, or be a Seliph and save the continent from her and the evil cult.

[markoftheasphodel]

I just read your Arvis did everything wrong meta, and it had me wondering about the time frame. Did the Lopto cult show up to blackmail Arvis before or after he decide that killing off Kurth and kicking off conquest of the entire continent is a good idea? Like did the Lopto cult just piggy back off a scheme Arvis already put in place? Or did their threat make him think "this is shit, I am going to take over the world and make everything better under my rule"?

So here’s what the game script (old patch via SF) has to say about it:

Chapter 3

Dark mage:“Archbishop Manfroy, I just witnessed the assassination of Prince Kurth.”

Manfroy:“Is that so? This is getting interesting. Only one descendant remains of our old foe Narga, and he will die before long. Then all that’s left is the revival of our Dark Lord. Then the world will be ours!”

Dark mage:“Has Alvis consented to your proposal?”

Manfroy:“Of course he did. He’s got Loputousu’s blood flowing in his veins. And if that ever got out, they would burn him at the stake for being of Loptian descent. I just wonder if someone as arrogant as Alvis can keep quiet.”

Chapter 5

Manfroy:“Hmhmhm… Lord Alvis, I see things are proceeding smoothly.”

Alvis:“Manfroy? How many times have I told you not to show yourself around here!? All members of your Lopt Sect must stay completely hidden until I’ve taken power!”

Manfroy:“Yes. You’re too weak to admit our presence, and you let that greedy Leptor and Langobalt run all over you!The original plan was to dispose of those two once they proved useless and work through their sons instead!”

Alvis:“Hmph… Manfroy, I’ll say this once and only once, so listen good. I haven’t the slightest intention of rebuilding your Lopt Empire. I have no problem with your Lopt Sect existing, but I’m not leaving the world in the hands of the Dark Lord. You follow!? I don’t care if I have the Lopt Clan’s blood in me. I have Saint Maira’s blood and he fought for the good of the people. The Fire God Fala is also one of my ancestors. I will use my power to create a world which is free of prejudice. One where all peoples can live without fear of repression! Of course, Sigurd knows way too much. Consider him a sacrifice to the greater good.”

I also checked the various designers’ notes and interviews on SF and didn’t see a clear answer to whether Manfroy approached Arvis before or after Arvis started dreaming of reforming Jugdral from the top down. Ultimately I don’t think it matters in terms of Arvis doing wrong (blackmail-- not a defense against conspiracy to commit murder). Arvis thought he was capable of cutting ties with Manfroy, ruling his own empire, and having his master plan go off without a hitch. Manfroy-- correctly-- assessed Arvis as not being capable of mastering the continent independently.

Again, lie down with dogs and get fleas... or rather, get into bed with Dark Lord cults, get f*cked. It’s not like he and Manfroy just entered into a scheme simply get Arvis appointed the heir to Grannvale without all the murder, invasions, occupations, and atrocities. It’s not like Manfroy presented the Lopt Sect as simply being peaceful worshipers of the Dark Lord in the manner of Maira and only unveiled his true agenda once Arvis had the throne and a Loptous-blooded heir. Arvis embarked on a massive continent-wide scheme of crossing, double-crossing, assassination, and so on, all the while believing (or just telling himself) he could tamp down on a cult that had managed to hang on for more than a century in the shadows... when the leader of said cult was his murderous co-conspirator! 

“We were gonna kill Reptor and Lombard earlier than this and now you’re letting them walk all over you” = right there, in one sentence, why and how Arvis f*cked up

[valflame]

I think this is made pretty clear by the game script and by any character and game notes from kaga, but I have so many people reminding me here and there that a majority of the people following me haven’t ever played genealogy!! So I’m here to write up a little thing on ARVIS’ PERSONAL STANDARD OF ETHICS.

                             TL;DR: the guy’s a utilitarian

To get into the specifics, he’s got a very strict teleological stance in terms of how he views and perceives the world. In heroes ( where I’d imagine it’s much more likely anyone on the dash has seen him ) he stresses how he’s willing to make his dreams of an ideal world where things are equal and equitable for all a reality by any means necessary. When I say he stresses it, I mean he really pushes it pretty hard. He talks openly about murdering Sigurd the ‘usurper’ and how he had to die to pave the way for a brighter future, how he thinks his actions are justified, how he feels like he’s willing to make the sorts of necessary sacrifices that few could countenance for the public, he outright calls himself a ‘champion of the people’ --- he thinks he’s a good guy, and says as much in the same breath used to explain and justify why he’s committed murder, because when you ask a true utilitarian whether murder is right or wrong you won’t get an answer. You’ll be posed with more questions. Who’s getting murdered? Who’s committing the act? Why do they have to die? Utilitarianism doesn’t care about the act itself; in utilitarianism ( act utilitarianism specifically, since rule utilitarianism is a thing that exists that wouldn’t share the same sentiments ) all that matters are the end results --- utilitarianism believes that there is no intrinsic moral value in specific acts but in the results. Thus, something like murder is totally ethical and completely justifiable to him if, say, murdering one person would ultimately bring more good into the world than bad and help the greatest number of people in the long run. At the same time, wanton murder isn’t something he’d condone at all without what he sees as due moral reason; it’s a situational mode of ethics.

Arvis specifically prescribes to the JOHN STUART MILL branch of utilitarianism in the ‘greatest happiness principle’. To bring goodness into the world alone is not enough; it must be distributed ‘fairly’, spread among the greatest number of people possible so as to benefit society at large. Arvis thinks he’s a righteous knight fighting the poor man’s fight, after all; in his mind he’s an agent of the downtrodden, a member of the bourgeoisie with the well-being of the proletariat in his heart fighting the ‘good man’s fight’ to quash discrimination and prejudice wherever it might exist. Game notes exist of him using his newfound power in his early years as emperor once all his political scheming works out to free slaves, crack down on vile merchants and enact harsh countermeasures to punish corrupt members of the nobility; he was wildly popular among his public in his early years as emperor for a reason. He does heinous things, sweeps it all aside under the premise of ‘my ends justify my means’ and still thinks good of himself because the concept of murdering 30 or so innocent people is, to him, absolutely nothing if it means securing a continent’s peace. He thinks the corruption he sees in noblemen like Reptor and Langobalt is the pus in the festering wound those in power have left on Jugdral, and removing it will help the continent heal. He thinks their deaths are just another stepping stone to be used to get there. He thinks he’s a good guy.

                                         The only thing that changes his opinion                                          of that is Julius’ rise to power and his                                          subsequent usurping of the empire, and                                          even then it’s only because he, in the end,                                          wound up failing in reaching his end goal.

[deetvar-moved]

But Lopppptyyyyyr, Reptor and Langobalt are both eeeeevullll.

This is true. However I ain't shipping that.

[randomnameless]

I'm really unsure how much stock i should put on Kaga's interview statement that you're meant to interpret Sigurd as an impulsive idiot who was too stupid to realize that he was being put into a very obvious trap throughout his campaign

Sigurd's death scene always read to me as the audience being meant to be both impressed by Arvis' intelligence and horrified at what's happening to the cast, not as "Sigurd is such a dumbfuck for falling for such a painfully obvious ploy, Arvis got really lucky that his biggest opponent is this much of a dimwit lol"

There's a huge difference between pre!Silesse!Siggy and post!Silesse!Siggy.

Chalk it up to Deedee being missing, living a few months in what is supposed to be a cold viper's nest (tfw Rahna's bros in law don't like her sitting on the throne) or his family being framed for Kurth's death despite years of loyalty by fellow Granvalle people (+ Claud's prophecy that things are going to suck), Siggy mellows a bit.

Then Ethlyn, Quan and Altena eat sand, and Siggy makes the decision to order the kids/youngsters to gtfo - he might still be an idealist at heart and trust that, at least, some people in Granvalle aren't part of the conspiracy to frame him and his dad for the murder of the King - maybe if he can talk to Azmur everything will be "okay" again - and yet, he isn't willing to risk the lives of the kids or the ones who want to get out of this mess, because there is a risk he's going to die, and he's now aware of it.

Post!Silesse!Siggy, especially after his dad and Ethlyn's deaths, reads as desperate - desperate to cleanse his family's name, but also to find allies and make sure the Granvalle he served - under Azmur - still exists.

Of course we know what happens, but fwiw, Siggy is at first doubtful when Velthomer suddenly sides with them to toast Reptor, but thanks to Aida's assurance - and no prior ill feelings against Arvis, who is, as far as Siggy knows, someone who was in Belhalla, gave him a nifty sword and serves the royal family more closely than anyone else - he accepts to follow her plan...

Only to be toasted in turn.

IMO, it's less than Siggy is an impulsive idiot, but he is a naive and idealist man who has full trust in the people he serves (the Heim royals) : sure he was played, but just like Reptor and Langobalt (or Lombard as he is now know) and, ultimately, Arvis himself.

Arvis and Manfroy fooled Jugdral, so it reads a bit as unfair to single out Siggy as being a moron because he was played.

Bar the memes, I wouldn't say it's Arvis being intelligent - but him finally showing his real cards (even if we got hints when he works with Manfroy, and Reptor wondering what the fuck he is doing), that is being unrepentant and torching (gameplay wise, at least in this cutscene) his own brother for the sake of reaching his dreams, and securing Deedee at the same time.

Both Siggy and Reptor trusted Arvis, and Arvis pissed on that to kill them with their pants down : much like ASOIAF's Tywin gambits, this isn't being more intelligent than the others, it's being more ruthless by betraying everyone and everything to reach his own ends.

However, unlike his bootleg copy, Arvis won't enjoy pots of tea and pastries during his retirement : by the time Gen 2 pops up, Oldvis lost everything he onced had, is manhandled by his own son, ignored by his own people, has his "grand ideals" twisted and torn beyond recognition, and his batman gambit to save the hunted children kind of falls flat, because he cannot save his own son(s) nor his beloved daughter.

And to add more salt to the wound, ghost!Deedee hangs out with ghost!Siggy and never asks about him - you can even read between lines that Deedee "accepted" her death at Julius' hands, instead of rewarping or whacking him with the Book of Naga because that would mean she'd reunite with Siggy, Arvis (and Julia, by the same occasion :'( ) be damned.

[randomnameless]

If I can be the devil's advocate, the victim blaming helps illustrate how misguided Supreme Leader is and is one of the few aspects that support her status as the villain/antagonist. (And if anyone defends victim blaming especially wrt imperialism, yikes).

You're not playing devil's advocate anon, rather IS/KT's lol

If the devs didn't bail out at the last moment - CF and Supreme Leader could have been fascinating bonuses for the FE series, play as the red emperor - see how the red emperor recruits/their tactics to keep the population ignorant at large and demonise the people they're attacking, etc, etc...

But no, instead Supreme Leader wondering why people are not happy when she's Aymr'ing them is played seriously, and we're left puzzled with the character we see, are we supposed to follow Flamey - who lies and manipulates people, ultimately ditching them when they're useless - on her quest to conquer the world, seeing how this manipulation works, the "must have good PR" tactics unfold etc etc?

Because that's part of what we see in Tru Piss - the lie about Rhea using Nukes, the lie about "unlike u i let people go when i stormed Garreg Mach" and the Aeneid approved "what is a pincer attack?" where Supreme Leader apparently marvels at how the "pincing" army supposedly waited until the first army was already ko to intervene, limiting their losses - when it's just a pincer attack with added plot rain -

And then we have the brainfart moments "why are people resisting?" that completely retcon the entire "uwu blood at my feet" because, hey, you knew blood would rain since you uwu'd about it, so why now you're wondering why people are dying? - that is also played seriously, are we following Flamey and a red Emperor, or someone who thought she was playing with dolls and forgot her own words?

Everything falls flat when the games give the victim blaming lines to other factions, aka the victims themselves!

Like in

(SS's worst support)

Nopes.

I get victim blaming when you're siding/following the red emperor's mindset, because PR, or maybe because they're delured enough to think they're doing this for the "great-err good" - but the invaded parties?

Where the fuck in FE Tellius are people telling Ike started Ashnard's war because he sheltered Elincia? Sigurd pretty much says "fuck off" to people telling him Granvalle might hate him for, hm, sheltering the Prince of an enemy nation instead of dicing him in cubes, because said prince is only a kid in hiding and Siggy will protect him (which will of course be used as an argument leading to his downfall) - When Reptor and Langobalt (and Andrei don't forget him!!!) attack Sigurd and deem him a traitor, Sigurd doesn't think they're right and it's his fault if he and his men are branded traitors because they rescued a child, no, he wants to cleanse his (and his father's !) name by rekting the aforementioned dudes.

Unless we're supposed to understand Supreme Leader's information campaign reached far and wide, why the world blames the Central Church, you know, the Elincia who was kicked out of her home, for the start of the War? What were they supposed to do? Die ?

I still have to check with friends about the accurate translation, but Supreme Leader's battle lines even in Nopes, lampshade this victim blaming, telling the Nabateans or Church peeps she's only fighting because they do like -

you want them gone and they want to survive, it suspiciously looks like some "it's your fault I have to smack you/you made me do this" - but hey, from the Red Emperor, it's normal, they deflect and redirect the blame because they are the Red Emperor, and they manipulate, it's their MO (even if Supreme Leader's quite weak compared to people like Ashnard or Arvis who legit framed Siggy!).

And that's where the Hresvelg Grey pours like an endless fountain - the victims will never be allowed a voice to the chapter - the plot ignores them and so it's their fault, and nothing says the contrary. It's because Rhea is so BaD and sekritly controls the World that Supreme Leader has to invade the Alliance who pretty much doesn't give a fuck about what Rhea says or does.

And no one will ever point that out.

In a nutshell, I love Tru Piss as a concept, the unreliable words you're told vs the world you see - the contradictions between your side's story and the rest of Fodlan, how the dissonance is too strong and culminates with "Rhea BaD she razed Arianrhod" and yet... nothing comes from this. The plot warps at the 11h59 hour to fit with the "world as you're told" and Tru Piss shines on Fodlan.

Sothis forgots you've terminated her daughter (and maybe son+granddaugther?) because Supreme Leader doesn't believe in... Sothis, or how she fulfills her fated enemies agenda to have brainsex with Billy and shares with them some of her power to make sure they still live as she poofs in oblivion if she wasn't S-supported - completely retconning what we knew of Sothis (the supposed loving mother) and what we will later learn about her (the vengeful being who's pretty pissed at people who slaughter her kin).

TLDR : Fodlan's victim blaming could have been better implemented in the Red Emperor "information campaign" to depict how warped information is, in times of war, or in general, the dangers of misinformation coupled with a charismatic person's spouting utter shit to justify... something that is not justifiable. But Tea must be sold, and so everyone buys the "information campaign" even if the world screams against it.

Victim blaming becomes unsufferable in Nopes and in the worst support ever, Rhea's straight out asking Billy if the war - eating nukes, being tortured in Enbarr for 5 years, a continental war, disparition of civilians, Baldos and Waldis being manufactured, etc etc - is her fault and Billy never saying "of fucking course no".

When Ninian blames herself for Elbert's death, Eliwood tells her it's not her fault, Elbert died trying to do what he thought was just, and Nergal was the one who killed him.

Oh well.

[randomnameless]

somedays I wonder if "3H takes some inspiration from FE4" warped into "3H *is* FE4 with Find and Replace (Lopt Sect -> Agarthans, Holy Blood -> Crests, etc)" because the way some of the fandom treat 3H and FE4 as 100% similar to one another. Cap'n and his ilk remind me of this, and I wish there was a way to find out who played FE4 first, then 3H, and who played 3H, then FE4, cause I feel like the latter half try to warp 3H around FE4's shell to go "see! its good! it all makes sense!"

Pff,

It's not Lopt Sect, but Lopt Church, so Churc = Church, and Lopt Church = Church of Seiros.

who is braggi what is the church of braggi ssh no one cares

Holy blood = crest, don't worry about the details, it's dragon blood!

There's no possibility to wrap FE4 in 3H nonsense, because FE4 more or less stands on its own. But to be fair, I don't think FE4 is the pinnacle of good gaming or good storytelling that'd be FE5, still, maybe people will start to resent FE16 and see it's shortcomings more... uh, willingly faced with Jugdral.

Jugdral shows people dying, FE4 more or less shows Midir trying to hold the castle for his Lady and getting rekt'd - it doesn't transition thanks to a blackscreen to 5 years forward.

But I'm sure the merry band of friends will find a way to twist FE Jugdral and say it's the plaything of gods so Gods should go, when the game clearly depicts humans being their shitty selves and using some supernatural powers to be even more shittier.

Loptry didn't manipulate Manfroy into doing all his biding. Loptyr didn't manipulate Langobalt and Reptor. Loptyr didn't manipulate Travant and Arvis.

Nope.

Reidric is a piece of slime because he is Reidric. Just like Bramsel asking Lene to "dance" for him. Jugdral is a crappy verse, and it's all because of its denizens.

[randomnameless]

Reminder that Naga allowed a Dragon(Duma) with known rage issues & power thirst, her enemy, to settle on a continent full of humans, with no interventions or visits from other dragons. Yet stopped a human loving Dragon(Forseti) who was a close friend, from staying behind to passively help humanity against dragons. Scumbag Naga indeed!

Hm, Duma in the beginning was known for being salty for having rage issues and power thirst? Power thirst seems a bit too extreme to qualify his motto, granted it is said that Milla was about love and Duma about Power, but Milla didn’t love her people that much when Desaix or Lima were doing nonsense...

Forseti wanted to help humanity against loptyr’s nonsense but in his own way he was creating a lot of nonsense himself - remember that bout were he was shipping Seliph and Julia? Now imagine if two or more major naga blooded randoms run around in the world fighting for the book of Naga or unleashing Naga bombs everywhere - besides, wasn’t the point of giving HW and HB about humans fighting with this and only this to pwn Loptyr? FE Jugdral is interesting because Loptyr may be the big baddie we pwn at the end, but he was brought up by human actions - in FE Jugdral humanity is at its worst (Reptor, Langobalt, Manfroy, the Thracians, the Mansterians - they all have good reasons for doing what they, but they’re creating a lot of nonsense in the process and said nonsense bites them in the rear when the times comes).

By insisting to stay behind (to help the humans but still staying behind), Forseti is meddling in humans affairs, something Naga wanted to prevent. Humans bring their own nonsense to themselves, they have to deal with it accordingly.

(heck, before Julius’ possession, everything that happened has been Manfroy’s doing (and Arvis), the occupation of Isaach, the war etc. It was political play, a ruthless one but one that didn’t involve dragons, so why should dragons solve it?)

Not saying Naga’s reasoning is the good one here, but it has its merits, just like Forseti. (and this is taking into account all of the personal negative bias i have against him)

[deetvar-moved]

I have two questions. One, do you think Langobalt x Reptor is canon? Two, is Briggid x Dew a good pairing?

The answer to your 1st question is No. The answer to your 2nd is Not Holyn/10.

[randomnameless]

While Eldigan's not perfect, the only action he did that could be considered treacherous was giving Raquesis, his sister, the Earth Sword. His other actions consist: of stopping Elliot from doing an attack forbidden by the King at the time, going to prison when Chagall ordered him too, saving Chagall's life, giving Chagall refugee in his castle & command over his troops, then asking Chagall to do a treaty because Grannevale will kill them, but not to give up hope. He was a good servant.

I might have to reread the screen caps i took of chapter 2+3 but the mere fact that the invader, Siggy, is his friend already puts him in jeopardy. In order, Siggy goes to rescue Raquie from Elliott, and then marches over Agstria to rescue Eldie from Chagall’s jail. Of course we know Eldie didn’t ask Siggy to destroy everyone and kill all the lordlings on his way to rescue him but hey, how is Chagall even supposed to see this?

And then, as if to “clear” the misunderstanding, once Eldie is free and all, suddenly Granvalle decides to occupy Augstria? (well they wanted to do since the beginning, and used Siggy to do so, but Siggy didn’t think about it too much, he only wanted to help Eldie).

So in chapter 3, you have Augstria occupied by Eldie’s best friend - whose main purpose in the last chapter was to save him. Of course this doesn’t have anything to do with Eldie, Siggy’s dumb as ham, he can’t do anything about it. and yet, we’re told that the granvallian forces are committing war crimes/ or at least stupid things people do when they conquer another country - Eldie is pissed at this, and asks Siggy to make them stop.

Imagine a second if this happened in Isaach, Shanan wouldn’t have knocked at Danan’s door and asked him “could you please ask your rowdy bunch of friend to stop raping/pillaging my people? thanks!”. Was Eldie soft on Siggy because Siggy was his friend, or because he couldn’t muster enough forces to maintain order and keep the Granvellians from doing nonsense by sending them back home? (and guess who reduced the number of augustrian knights by 75% when he went to save his pal?) - then you have the plot excuse (or not actually) of the negociations, supposedly Kurth (lel) was going to withdraw, they just had to wait a bit, we can’t know in FE4 how much time passed, but going easy on Siggy while his forces are out doing criminal stuff isn’t very nice. Is it treacherous? I don’t know. Is it not treacherous? I don’t know either. Would Eldie have reacted differently if Blume had been in front of him? 

Another (weird?) thing is how, Chagall isn’t the one to talk to Siggy. It’s only Eldie, Eldie who wants the status quo (Kurth will sign the peace treaty!) while Chagall wants to retake his country by force. Eldie talks with the invaders, he doesn’t take part in the “rebellion” (or liberation army). Is it betrayal? I don’t think so.

However, there is one thing I am sure of which doesn’t ring too well with Eldie’s image of loyalty - Siggy is the man who trampled over the country and nearly killed Chagall, the King of Augstria. Even if Chagall was Chagall, Eldie is still a knight of Augstria, sworn to protect the King. Still calling/considering Siggy a friend by this point is, imo, treason. (but because Chagall is a doucheslag we don’t feel empathy for him - which is, imo one of the weak points on the Agustrian arc.)

as an example, if Langobalt, who (nearly) killed Byron tried to negotiate a ceasefire treaty with Chalphy, Siggy would run his sword through his guts, he wouldn’t “politely ask him to keep his men on a leash because seriously they’re doing horrible things to my people i won’t tolerate this any longer but hey can we still be friends”. And yet, even if Eldie murdered Siggy, Augstria would still have been doomed. Poor Eldie tried to kill two birds with one stone - be Siggy’s friend (even if he scolds him) and a knight, but he only lost his head in the process.

[valflame]

@holysight​

⊰ ♖ ⊱

                   Most days did not typically herald the arrival of strangers being found sprawled out with their heads against the stone steps leading up to the main gates of Belhalla castle. Most days did not typically herald the arrival of any unconscious strangers at all, but when one was found so close to the royal castle their care and the fate of what to do with them generally fell to the royal guard, and as head of the royal guard the duty naturally fell on Arvis’ shoulders. It wasn’t something he’d initially put much stock in considering all the other tumult he’d already embroiled himself in, but with Reptor and Langobalt off tending to their own businesses and his daily duties in tending to the king’s health done with the mage found himself with just enough free time to interrogate Belhalla’s most recent unexpected arrival.

                    ( Manfroy’s general uptake in lurking around the castle in unseen corridors since his appearance was additional cause for concern, of course. It was best for him to deal with whatever might be going on personally rather than sending one of his knights off to do things for him. )

                   Perhaps that was why he moved so promptly to meet with the yet-unnamed stranger once a member of the Weissritter alerted him to his awakening, his boots leading him swiftly down the halls toward the spare bedroom his knights had put him up in. There was some good in knowing that the man wasn’t outright comatose --- that would’ve made any questioning a bit trickier. Arvis rapped his knuckles against the back of the door once, twice, thrice before suddenly opening it regardless ( why extend undue courtesies to strangers when they’d already gone as far as they had in procuring him a better place to sleep than on the ground outside? ) and stepping into the room, his furrowed brow turned in the direction of the veiled bed housing whatever-their-name-was.

                   "Forgive my sudden entrance. I do hope you’ll understand; as head of the royal guard His Majesty King Azmur’s security is quite important to me, and to find that someone had managed to enter the castle grounds and come so close to the entrance of the building without anyone having noticed is troubling, to say the very least. Tell me, what business do you have in Belhalla?? Before that, even --- what am I to call you??”

[randomnameless]

A thing to consider is people like Langobalt don't view themselves as evil. I'm think that the Dozel family was big on toughening your kids by being tough on them, give them a hardy defense worthy of Helswath.

Honestly, in FE4, I don’t think anyone see themselves as evil, even Manfroy and his goons.

(maybe the random brigands do)

Being worthy of Helswath was something that weighed heavily on Burian’s mind - maybe it was passed down from grandpa? For all the “my sons are worthless” talk from Lombard, I always saw him super proud of his grandson (he ends up as a master knight after all), maybe he read/told him stories about Crusader Neir and how he and his axe of Justice destroyed the evil loptyrians in the desert when Burian was a kid.