#Leander theory

[vermilionsun]

YOU THOUGHT WE WOULDN'T NOTICE

(we didn't. It took three months)

((Or maybe I'm an idiot and everyone else knew all this time))

THIS IS A CEMETERY.

This is as much of the space as I could make out

It kind of depends in whether the red poles are the entrance [left] or if it's a single one [right]... but I don't know what purpose it'd serve? Refrence point? Utility marker? Pending grave?

There are flowers on the ground.

To me, they look like holy on the right and on the left carnations and... a golden horse petal

Also, PINK LANTERN

I'm positive about it. So sure, in fact, that if I'm wrong when the game comes out, I'm piercing my tits Leander-style

The rest are assumptions and guesses, BUT;

located in Hightown, tall buildings = easy to hide

The Senobium's, probably

That's where the Silent Crypts lead? Maybe?

and and, let's not forget;

VERE WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE

[sundayeleith]

Leander theories : his route

On my last Leander post, I had a very interesting comment and my answer was getting so long I decided a post would be most digestible and it's more about Leander's route outcome which I've been itching to talk about more extensively. So here's the comment left by @bulletmedic !

I agree with this take, well mostly the first part. MC reacts very differently to Leander than the other 4. As I said in my previous post, they very firmly don't want to show or talk about their curse, yet look at them tell Leander anyways. Something is off and it's not bad writing, it was put there deliberatly.

As for the route itself, tldr : yes and no. I think Leander could fall in love with MC no matter what up a certain point in the story or that it depends on certain choices we make.

More under the cut !

Leander, Leander, Leander. Quite the man. I thought about his route structure and outcome so mainy times. As I said above, I have 2 ideas on how the route could go. Again I could be completely wrong but I'm not here to be right just give my 2 cents (and because I love talking about him dqojdqpojzdqzpoidjfqz).

First I want to talk a bit about Leander's goal. In v2.0, it's been made more clear that Leander wants MC's powers for himself, is it by keeping them alive or not. So the "basement wife" scenario wouldn't be impossible, especially if he falls for MC but his obsession around them and their power mix and twist into something more sinister. I don't think Leander is a yandere, or not one in the strict sense of the term but rather borders on the idea in a more complex way justified by the narative and his writing (not saying it's good, just saying that if written well and given logic explenation that could turn out better than just a plain classic yandere trope).

Now, the first posibility : he falls in love anyways but the ending we get depends on choices we make. My take is Leander will either chose his goal/plan or MC. Or try to stop the plan put in motion to save them and either fail or succeed. For the first one, I'd say if MC is too distant Leander won't hesitate too much to sacrifce them for his bigger goal and agenda. He'd hate it, but he needs to do what he needs to do. The second scenario works well with the first one and could be another bad end branching if he decides to save MC. Here I think if MC trusted him enough, he could succeed or something like that.

Then the other posibility : Oh that one would be absolute cinema. Imagine thinking Leander is falling for MC, that you made the right choices only for him to reveal he was lying this whole time and you got trapped. Oh the betrayal. Oh I would get my life if that's the case. The drama of it all. That could mean we need to get the right balance between being distant enough to survive and avoid an early bad ending but not to get a full bad ending either. Just like Leander, we need to play our cards right and chose when to open up and warm up to him in the right moments. Being receptive to his fake charms would get us in danger, while being receptive to a more authentic heart to heart conversation would get us more high in his esteem. Higher than a mere pawn at least.

He is such a complicated character in my eyes, he craves authenticity and a true bond even just friendship, but can't afford it. He can't let a single weakness settle in, and still he feels lonely to the point he tries to fill that void by being liked by everyone (tho he does so for his plan not just out of loneliness). Only to remember a friend to everyone is a friend to no one. Idk what his deal his I need to beat him to death

Me each time I try to guess Leander's motivations and main goal.

Hope that it made sense and was fun to read >:)

[portsandstars]

Bad Ending Bingo!

Any bad endings you anticipate happening?

[anonymous-eggy]

*smacks touchstarved fandom with a stick*

LEANDER DIDNT REACH FOR YOUR THROAT TO BE AN ASSHOLE! HIS WHOLE GOAL IN THE BEGINNING IS TO. GAIN. YOUR. TRUST.

WHAT PART OF REACHING FOR YOUR THROAT GAINS YOUR TRUST???

IT MAKES YOU DOUBT HIS POWER, HENCE WHY HE PLAYED IT OFF BY SAYING "LMAO JK JK" YOU FOOLS FELL FOR IT AND ATE IT UP BELIEVING HE WAS JUST BEIN A LIL JESTER. A LITTLE BITCH. A LITTLE ASSHOLE.

THATS WHAT HE WANTED YOU TO THINK BC FOR A MOMENT THE CURSE DID AFFECT HIM A BIT.

"BUT EGGY, HE DOESNT DO IT IF YOU WILLINGLY TOUCH HIM?!!?! HE WAS JUST SO OFFENDED YOU DIDNT TRUST HIM!!" DO YOU KNOW HOW CURSES CAN WORK? CATCH MC OFF GUARD AND THEIR CURSE FLARES UP TO BE STRONGER. THE CURSE'S STRENGTH PROBABLY DEPENDS ON HOW FREAKED OUT MC IS.

MC IS CALMER AND TRUSTING AND EXPECTANT WHEN THEY WILLINGLY TOUCH LEANDER. SO THE CURSE DOESNT FLARE UP.

THE CALMER MC IS THE LESS THE CURSE FLARES UP AND THE EASIER IT IS TO COUNTER WITH LEANDERS OWN MAGIC.

LEANDER GAINING YOUR TRUST COMES BEFORE ANY SORT OF RETALIATION. HE MAY BE A MAN CHILD OF A DOG, BUT HE IS DEDICATED. HE WILL CALMLY CHASE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE TOO TIRED TO KEEP RUNNING. YOU THINK HE GOT ALL THAT POWER BY BEING AN ASS TO PEOPLE WHO DONT IMMEDIATELY TRUST HIM?! HE WILL PLAY THE LONG GAME IF HE HAS TO. HE GIVES YOU THE WHOLE FACADE OF "you can come and go as you please, but i can be home for you :)"

HE HAS DUPED YOU ALL AND I WILL GIGGLE AT ALL OF YOU WHEN THE FULL GAME COMES OUT.

[lilithhound]

Something that's been on my brain is how Leander and MC are almost steered to be a pair. I’m not particularly talking about in a romantic sense - but saying that, there's traces of it. 😂

The characters have their preferred pair / close relationship. Ais and Vere are close so they gravitate towards each other, Kuras and Mhin are close and do the same, so who does that leave? MC and Leander. According to the relationship chart and insight through dialogue, Leander isn’t close to anyone. Doesn’t have a deeper, special bond with anyone. Then along comes the MC. And for them, he’s the one they would probably - unless intercepted by the player of course - be drawn to considering he’s human, the only living person that can resist the effects of their touch and the one that’s offered help and their attention the most. There’s a lot of circumstances pushing them together.

That’s before addressing Leander’s immediate possessiveness over them. Quickly ensnaring, manipulating and isolating so they rely on him solely. Already pulling out the pointedly strong drink he refuses anyone else to serve them, the pomegranate wine Hades and Persephone style before you’ve even had the chance to choose who to pursue. Trying to create - artificially - a special bond between them. Weirdly enough the cursed newcomer might just be the one he feels something deeper with genuinely before he realises it. An outsider that could see a peek of his true self for a change. Potentially. Maybe Leander secretly seeks that. He must be the one to control everything though. I can just visualise an event or trip with all the love interests, where they would in all likelihood break off into their pairs naturally and Leander would do his utmost or expect to be paired with MC if it happened.

There's every chance I'm in my own head thinking excitedly about his route, but it almost feels like there's a string of fate going on between Leander and MC. And we get to decide how it plays out. Imagine the possibility of him finally having someone he can form more of a connection with, but you have your eyes set on someone else.

In short, I need to see how this desperate and despicable man reacts if you aren’t on his route. 🤭

[future-ph3nix]

Ok, it’s brainrot time !

I’m sorry (not), but I really need to get this out of my system right now.

So, 2 months ago I posted this crazy theory on reddit (that I now believe to be wrong, thanks to actually SANE people existing in this fandom):

But I’m back to thinking I might have been onto something. A hidden connection, whatever it might be.

Because, AND I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL, there’s a purposeful play on symmetry here, between the tattoo and the scar :

Also, green and red are fucking complementary colors.

And also, I still think they look uncannily similar.

RSS doesn’t do coincidences.

That’s it. Goodnight.

[purplecritter]

theories/thoughts/analysis about touchstarved 2025 demo

So uh, I did a long analysis post back when the first demo dropped. I won’t repeat things that I already wrote there but I have some more thoughts especially with the changes and additions they made + several of the scattered official tumblr posts that followed the demo release!

Also heads-up, I will edit this with the daily routine posts from the devs' account if they're relevant, since I already commented on Mhin’s, but apart from those I won’t touch this anymore afterwards 🙏

(Spoilers under the cut)

Kuras

His new red choice… Really amps up his association with fire, and it seems to be directly linked with how close we are to him: if you didn’t get the red choice you still feel it, but you’ll miss this line: “I realize it’s more than physical warmth. The sensation calms my nerves and quiets my mind—the closest thing I’ve ever felt to a comforting embrace”. One thing is interesting though: the red choice was unlocked during my Unnamed playthrough, but not during my others even if I picked the same choices. I tried again picking the opposite choices with my Unnamed and still got that red choice, so I’m pretty sure it depends on your origin, not your relationship with him. Since, as of now, Kuras hasn’t yet revealed his true nature to us (I suspect Eridia more or less knows, though), it would make sense that specifically the origin about detecting hidden supernatural presences would notice earlier than the others.

The dev answered a question on their tumblr about Kuras, “Kuras came through the Shroud because he loved humanity. He’s had human friends, colleagues, and lovers… all of whom he’s destined to outlive. Each person he’s loved—and lost—left an indelible stamp on him.” The stamp part caught my attention; since we feel his powers more whenever when get closed (physically, but moreso emotionally), I wonder if he can… channel? That affection into energy. Kind of how deities are fueled by their followers’ faith, perhaps an angelic being like Kuras is fueled by emotions?

A bit of relevant lore was posted on the dev team's tumblr: “Divine Teacher — The Senobium's folklorists note a curious pattern in humanity's oldest tales. Though the details vary, these stories share a common theme: an otherworldly teacher, bringing the divine gift of knowledge. Alchemy and literacy, art and war...supposedly this being shared all that they knew with the earliest civilizations. In some tales, the otherworldly teacher is a loving, benevolent figure. In others, they are a harbinger of chaos and ruin.” as well as the quote “Hope. A strange concept, after so long seeing myself as the agent of ruin.” Prometheus is the obvious parallel, due to his association with fire (though I would hope Kuras still has his liver intact), but there’s many versions of the Theft of Fire; in the Book of Enoch there’s fallen angels who shared knowledge with humans, too; and undoubtedly several more myths about inhuman figures sharing knowledge. Mhin says that “[Kuras]rarely does [take payment from patients]. That just means he’s paying down the debt elsewhere” which could be related to his distaste for dealing with the Senobium… I wouldn’t even be surprised if he had a hand in creating the Senobium (his robes are white too, and he does collaborate often, yet he isn’t afraid of retribution for messing a little with its members from what we can see of his ending scene), and he had all the time in the world to witness how the knowledge he gifted was used for worse things that he could’ve hoped for :(

Kuras, like Ais, keeps on his own for the most part, though they don’t dislike feeling close to people: Ais actually dislikes isolation but he’s probably too jaded to want to bother interacting, while Kuras actively craves closeness (it’s part of the reason he has a free clinic methinks) even if he knows it will hurt him when he loses it.

Leander

Leander’s group is now called The Adderstone. The symbology of an adder stone, aka witch stone, is definitely a bigger hint at Leander’s unique connection to magic, whereas previously the Bloodhounds evoked the feeling of a mercenary group with a penchant for investigations. In the new demo Adderstone is defined as “a semi-precious mineral that draws out poison”, which also makes me think of his constant disposition as a confident protector and his tendency to disregard the riskier aspects (ie, he wouldn’t care about getting poisoned himself). The Adderstone’s meaning is still vaguely reminiscent of my previous thoughts about the Bloodhounds: Hounds are a breed specifically intended to track something specific (or someone specific) by scent, and in the new metaphor that something/someone is the poison that Leander and his mercenaries are drawing out, hunting.

Adder stones are sometimes also symbolically tied to snakes, some sources saying they were created by turning dead snakes into the stone, others say that the ring-like formation was made by a hardened bubble of saliva when snakes joined together… All quite nicely tied to the recurring Ouroboros symbol in Leander’s outfit and merch!

“I’m no prior or curator. I’m not much for paperwork or pencil pushing. And honestly, I don’t even think those robes come in my size.” I am reminded of an old post by user @/toeridiaorbust about how Leander and the Bloodhounds Adderstones clothes are a direct color inversion of the Senobium’s robes.

“If you want nothing but guidelines, improper policies, and needless bureaucracy, you know where to go […] The Senobium won’t help you. They’re more likely to torture you than to lend you a hand.” Now this? Makes me wonder if his prominent scars are connected to his loathing towards the Senobium.

“But I’m not going to wait from word from on high […] These are our streets. We make our own luck here […] I founded the Adderstones to help people like you.” connects to the “as above, so below” tagline that was in his posters in the first demo and first hinted at him creating the Adderstone as an alternative to the Senobium.

The lore snippet about him on the dev’s tumblr doesn’t add anything that we don’t know from the new demo about Leander and the Adderstone, but there’s an interesting part at the end: “Locals speak praise for the charming leader whose seemingly benign reign extends even below the city streets into the shadowed depths of the Silent Crypts.” Considering all of his symbolism about the cycle of rebirth (I went into detail in my old analysis post), the fact that this references a crypt of all places doesn’t feel coincidental… We haven’t heard of the location yet from what I can remember, but I would bet that it’s connected to Leander’s hidden curse / source of power.

In an old post, the devs confirmed that “The magically talented son of an old Hightown family, Leander was expected to join the Senobium when he came of age. Instead, he packed up his bags twelve years ago to chase his own dreams” which matches with his own words in the demo: “I grew up idolizing the Senobium. I wanted nothing more than to join their ranks, to learn magic from the best, to make a real difference. I was young and blinded by the legends and the legacy. I was so damn naive. All it took was one trip here, to Lowtown, to show me the truth.”

“I won’t leave you, and you won’t leave me” + “How would you feel about being on a leash?” + “You can decide how to thank me. Or I can decide for you.” he’s not beating the yandere allegations.

“It’s not every day I find something that truly challenges me” we already knew he likes being challenged, which is pretty much his whole relationship with Ais. It’s interesting because with MC, he tends to prefer when they defer to him, trust him, take the flower and hold hands…. I think both things are a way to reaffirm his confidence: a challenge surpassed is proof that he’s strong enough to face what he has ahead, and having people trust him (in Kuras’ words, even willing to put their lives on the line for him) is a different way to feel that kind of influence.

The new scene of him coming into MC’s room with the excuse of having information about the curse, it feels like a contrast with the other characters’ ending scenes. Everyone shows a little about themselves, their attitude or their habits, but Leander feels like he mirrors MC. Even asking him about his relationship with the others, he comments on what we say about them rather than speaking up about them unprompted.

I initially didn’t think much of it so it may be nothing but it’s worth mentioning anyways: while chatting with Leander nearer the ending, he can say “How would you feel about being on a leash?” which is easy to dismiss as just him being a little freaky, but then I recalled after the first encounter with Vere, when the MC remarks that they could share his fate and get “leashed” by the Senobium. I doubt Leander would intentionally let MC in the hands of the Senobium, considering his animosity towards them, but it’s still a chilling thought that feels like foreshadowing...

Vere

re: his bad/secret ending, I appreciate that he shows some restraint this time around. I’m now pretty certain that you can only get the option to “Reach out to him” (red choice) versus “Resist him” (neutral) if you played along with him at least a little bit; while “Surrender” (bad ending) is only unlocked if you don’t have his approval and you say that if you can’t find a cure it’s over for you (rather than “I’ll keep looking”).

In two posts on tumblr (here and here), the devs posted a couple of peeks at Vere’s living space. “Candles flicker in the waning light, illuminating a crowded desk at odds with its gloomy surroundings.” and “Few in living memory know why the Senobium built the secret prison where Vere is kept. What do you think happened to the other prisoners?”. Given it’s described as a secret prison, I’m torn about it being located in the entertainment district where we first found him. One one hand, he was shackled there and it was morning, the Senobium cleric hadn’t yet come to fetch him. On the other hand, it feels like a weirdly dangerous place to put the deathly charming Monster in? No other buildings can be seen from the window, which is either just to not clutter the view or it’s a tall building, a spire taller than the rest, which would only leave the blue sky visible from that angle. The three items that mainly occupy his space are candles (I would’ve thought he would be able to see in the dark, perhaps just not comfortably or perhaps he likes the atmosphere they create... or they're not there for his benefit, but that of his captors), books (I could swear there’s a full picture of his sketchbook somewhere but just considering this sneak peek of it here, I think it’s the one in the middle of the desk… As for the books, he doesn’t like puzzles, I’m not sure he would be the studious type, so my bet is on them being entertainment), and shackles in his bedroom and by the desk. This last detail feels particularly invasive, as the implications are that someone is scheduled to keep an eye on his routine, dictating when he is allowed bedtime and when he can read/draw/brush his tail (there’s a little brush and mirror in the shelves). There’s also some handwritten papers on his desk, I wonder if he’s allowed to send letters or if he just writes them? One additional detail caught my attention: doesn’t the decoration in the chair by his desk look remarkably similar to the design of Kuras’ earrings? Though there’s different additional elements for each, they both are a circle with three drops underneath it… Which makes me even more convinced that Kuras played a significant part in initially capturing Vere. The comment about “What do you think happened to the other prisoners?” brings to mind Vere’s insistence that if the Senobium realized what the MC is, they’d be leashed as well. I don’t doubt that other Monsters have been kept by them in a similar manner, perhaps some of them also were offered a way to end their suffering by Vere, like he did with MC in his secret/bad ending.

In a tumblr post by the dev team about his lore: “Bloodstained Snow — The Senobium's archives hold countless records of stories that defy belief. One ancient report recounts the haunting of a remote village by what is described at first as a god, and then as a demon. Heavily redacted, the papers depict a team of researchers hunted by a self-proclaimed deity that transforms into a malignant entity. After the beast succumbs to freezing conditions, its ultimate fate is unknown-doubtlessly lost with the pages removed from the report.” I would bet that this is (part of) the reason why Vere dislikes snow… Apart from that, it’s interesting that Vere presented as a god first. History is written by the victors, and I wouldn’t take this recounting as the full truth. If he approached the village like he did with us, at first charming (if a bit unnerving, but deities can afford that) and then started preying on people’s trauma/insecurities, it’s not much of a stretch that they’d label him a demon—and to be fair, his monstrous form doesn’t inspire much safety either. I wonder if he first caught Kuras’ attention (or wrath) by proclaiming himself a god?

I’m also still thinking of Vere being a foil for Mhin: both hunt Soulless, he does out of obligation and they do presumably as a choice in line with their ideals; one leans completely on his Monster side and lets it leak through nonchalantly, the other despises Monsters and hides their own unnatural skills; Vere puts on airs to hide his thoughts, overwhelming you with (effective or not) charm, while Mhin is standoffish and avoids opening up by… well, avoiding you.

Ais

The Exile notices “Not many scars, though. Strange. Save for one cut along his brow, Ais is unmarked for how seasoned he acts.” In a post on tumblr the team answered a question about this particular scar: “Ais’s scar serves as a memento of his first day in the human realm, a stark reminder of all that can be lost. His gang imparted a lesson he’ll never forget, and he returned the favor in kind.” What feels more likely to me, is that he passed through the Shroud with his gang, they had a serious disagreement and/or they betrayed him (we already know from the character sheets and other hints that he doesn’t like being alone, I feel like it’d take something serious for him to turn his back on them), fought and he got injured during this confrontation. Then he found (?) Ocudeus, and we can assume from the fact that the red-eyed woman who lead us to the Seaspring still had visible marks of her previous health, that the Seaspring doesn’t restore wounds, so the wound was already there and didn’t get healed. I don’t think it’s likely that Ais has regenerative powers (also, his knuckles are bruised constantly, and he bleeds when MC bites him).

Leander also says that Ais “doesn’t see humans as equals”. Humans, by their very nature, can’t realistically be a match for the power of a Monster, so Ais wouldn’t consider them on the same level as him. In the same line of thinking, he seems to like more when MC can hold their own, and I feel like it’s connected to his trauma about being betrayed: if people can take care of themselves (like Vere, who’s as dangerous as Ais, and Leander, whom he respects), if he gets betrayed by those he likes, then at least he won’t have to hold back and it will be a fair fight.

When Ais says his old gang “took a walk”, the Exile wonders about this “He knows how to scare people, and he expects submission, but it’s uncommon for someone so used to being in power to be so… alone.” The Exile also has the most positive reaction by far to the Soulless in the Seaspring. When talking with Mhin, the Exile says “[Ais’] Soulless seem to like him though […] There’s a big difference between Ais’ Soulless and that many-eyed Soulless [that attacked me].” Being playful (perhaps even being in groups) isn’t a behavior they usually display, and I wonder how much of that is because they share being under the influence of Ocudeus so they're not hostile to what they consider allies, and how much it could be Ais’ doing instead: if he feels so alone, I would bet that he would (subconsciously or not) use the bond with the Groupmind as a way to feel less isolated, and those feelings impact the behaviour of the Soulless.

Ais talks about “a time where Leander’s resolve will be tested, same for anyone in this plane or the next” I think that the Adderstones remind him of what he had, or could have had. He sees something of himself in Leander, but Ais is jaded by his previous experience. I now wonder if the assassination attempts are his way to test him, make sure he’s ready for whatever comes, something that he feels like he lacked when he was left alone?

The lore post about Ais on the official tumblr reads: “Death Knell — Whispers echo about a fearsome Monster within the Shroud, their overwhelming power and authority stretching across the realm’s underworld. Few have seen the face of this infamous ruler. As Monsters continued to abandon the Shroud to seek thrills in the human realm, the being stayed behind, devouring forsaken domains and Monsters alike until no challenges were left. Now, as the being seeks conquest elsewhere, Monsters stir in anticipation of impending carnage.” This also could reference the time where [everyone’s] resolve will be tested; I wonder if it’s a general comment, about Monsters as a whole (Ais himself likes a good challenge), or if Ocudeus specifically is working towards something. In England, there was a tradition to ring the so called passing bell from the church when someone’s death was imminent; then the death knell when they passed away (there’d be additional rings to signify gender, and age, so that people could get an idea of who it was); and finally the corpse bell when the funeral was being held. If we want to read too much into the cool moniker, perhaps Ais is not meant to be the harbinger of chaos, but merely a warning sign.

The Unnamed will comment about hearing a faint heartbeat pulsing underground, when they first approach the land near the Seaspring. Earlier they also comment about feeling a kind of thrumming in Eridia itself, I wonder how far Ocuseus’ influence expands? Is it limited to where its Groupmind members are?

Leander says that he’s known Ais for around six years, which considering Kuras says that Ais is a recent arrival, could be that he’s passed through the Shroud into Eridia for less than a decade even?

Mhin

They’re EVEN MORE of a nerd in this version. Clearly knowledgeable about Soulless’ biology, even though they deny having studied anatomy or medicine. In an older post on the devs' tumblr, “Mhin was forced to apply their anatomical knowledge to violence in order to survive. After years of bitter experience, they learned to fight with agility, elegance, and surgical precision. Even in Eridia, their skills see more use in combat than healing.” which again makes me think they maybe didn’t formally study them, but being an apprentice to someone isn’t out of the equation (perhaps even Kuras, the Divine Teacher?). Them saying to an Alchemist’s red choice “It’s been a while since I had someone answer [my theories]” hints that they weren’t always alone in leading a life like this, before. Like Leander says about them, “Vulnerability doesn’t get you much except heartache.”

“Something about them is strange, unlike any human or Monster I’ve ever met. I can’t quite place my hand on why, and that’s a first” is what an Unnamed says when first encountering them. Not human, not Monster, but a mix of both—Not enough Monster yet too far gone from Human. A post on the devs’ tumblr depicts Mhin (partially?) transformed: they’re still clearly recognizable, it could be they’re just mid transformation but considering the comment from the Unnamed, I don’t think Mhin can become fully a Monster (like, say, Vere’s shadow fox is also kinda incorporeal but more shaped): it is said that Monster gain more control over their human form as time progresses, so Mhin has probably only recently become like this. The description of “a tar-like substance leaking from their eyes and bony extrusions” matches their pin designs as well as their “costume” in the official 2024 Halloween art, and the tar/blood leaking from their eye matches the pastry on the official 2025 Valentine’s Day art (bottom right corner).

Ais calls them “dove” and considering their Monster form seems to be quite the opposite, black ichory feathers and all, makes me believe that Ais has seen them shifted sometime and is poking fun at it. Or I’m just reading into it too much and it’s about them having white hair and Ais defaulting to bird nicknames for some reason.

The Exile comments “It’s one thing to strike down Soulless. They’re creatures of instinct, aggressive and dangerous to everyone. But Monsters are lucid, thinking beings—beings that Mhin seems to loathe.” It feels like their hatred is brought on by how familiar they are: they know the thoughts that compel a Monster (hence their insistence that MC seeks help from someone less dangerous than them) and they hate that they’re their own thoughts.

In a recent post detailing their daily schedule, it seems to me that Mhin doesn’t sleep, or barely does. I’m more inclined to say that it’s a consequence of their nature, that they haven’t accepted (so they still want to sleep, even if they can’t or don’t need it), similar to how Kuras doesn’t really eat.

Since they both compete in the same field, I wonder if Mhin and Vere first met while hunting Soulless? Do they ever meet while on the same contract, or do they run in different circles?

I don’t think they mentioned this in the first demo, but Mhin says they grew up in Eridia. Which really surprised me, because in the pre-release content they’re referred as “outsider” and “outcast”… Unless that’s changed in the rewrite, maybe they were cast off when they were young, or maybe they weren’t physically exiled but rather their family/group of origin estranged them? “Eridia wasn’t perfect, but it used to be a place worth living in” also could be said in a more subjective sense, Mhin didn’t lead a perfect life but they were satisfied with it before. Moreover, Leander says about them “I’ve known them since they arrived here.” Perhaps they grew up in Eridia, left at some point, and came back later? And when asking Kuras about Mhin, he says “Like you, they’re a recent arrival.” though that could just be that Kuras has a different concept of time, considering he’s centuries old. In any case, I highly doubt it’s just an oversight from the team because so far every detail is very curated. There’s something here about Mhin’s timeline that I can’t quite put my hands on yet.

Now the juiciest bit of info about them yet in my opinion, is on their tumblr lore drop from the studio: “Lost Expeditions — In a bygone era, before Eridia became the last beacon of humanity, there was Lovent. Yet where a bustling metropolis once stood, there is now only a blasted crater and empty ruins, blanketed by fog. The inhabitants, and large chunks of the city, had vanished into thin air. Over the following years, scholars flocked to the ruins in search of answers. Like the Loventians, they disappeared without a trace, and none ever returned.” Lovent is also referenced in another post, as “The previous largest city, Lovent, was the epicenter of the first Fogfall. In the century since, Soulless and Monster incursions destroyed most cities, leaving Eridia as the largest remaining one.” It makes me wonder, if Mhin maybe did grow up in Eridia, went to Lovent either in time to be caught in its destruction, or afterwards to investigate it. It’s possible that this is how they became a Monster… In the description of their flower, there’s also a reference to “barren wastelands to ruins perpetually shrouded in Fogfall” which is way too similar to “empty ruins, blanketed by fog” to be a coincidence. It’s possible that they physically entered the Fogfall/Shroud, and what emerged wasn’t fully them anymore.

Thanks if you read so far, as always I’m always happy to read other thoughts about it all or if I missed something 👀

[vereing]

I think it’s pretty interesting that so many of the LIs have their cursed hour (monster time) in the evenings, right after the bar scene.

If the full game follows the path of the demo, i could envision selecting a love interest as you do in the demo, and then immediately getting thrown into whatever mess that is - seeing part of it, maybe - for Ais, Mhin, or Leander.

[hellamorte]

so. i've replayed the demo once more, and this scene baffled me at first, his indifference and displeased face like?? hello??? what happened to our knight in shining armour?? and then i realized it's one of the very few moments he lets himself be real.

it's clear that leander doesn't like getting involved when he might look bad to one of the parties, so this is such an honest and raw reaction when he has to act, when he has to choose between the loyalty of his followers and the potential gain of doing 'business' with mc, and he hates it. also the way he slides back into his good guy mode in the last sprite is just so tasteful 🤌

i think he chooses to take mc's side not because he likes them so very much, but because it's the path of least resistance: bloodhounds are most likely to stay loyal anyway, someone mentioning the senobium is obviousy not a big deal — well, not big enough to go into a fight with your leader, — and the bandaged hands, on the other hand (what a lame pun!!!!!!! sry), are a very promising tidbit (remember that information is currency). like i'm sure leander guessed there was something wrong with mc from the start, just didn't know the details. btw mc noticed his act — the practiced speech of help offering and his suspicion about mc needing a magical solution.

also i'd like to pinpoint that he's the only one eliciting that vital piece of information from mc to potentially gain leverage. it's not like we as players have any choice here but hear me out: even ais and vere (!!!) are showing some kind of respect regarding mc's hands. ais stops mc before they undo their bandages and vere is 'careful not to disturb them' when grabbing mc's arm. did leander reaalllyyyyyyy have to go that far (also if mc hesistates to touch him, he will grab their hand himself :DDD)??? he wants to make sure you need to trust him and him only like dude. i'm still not over the piece of a dialogue below i mean how can he be so honest and manipulative all at once?!?????

"you were right to hide this from me (but now i know). that curse of yours... it's unlike anything i've ever dealt with (i can't help you). i can tell you're discreet (praising) but you'd best not go showing that off to anyone else (so that only i know your secret)"

and the most fascinating thing? i don't think he's a genius mastermind or anything of sorts, he just gets people, operates on an intuitional level, it comes to him naturally, and most of the times he believes that he's doing good.

tl;dr leander is one of the most interesting characters i've ever come upon and it's captivating to see him slip out and back into his goody two-shoes persona and i hope we'll get more moments when he's raw and real soon 👀

[todayis-snowy]

touchstarved LIs and their matching alchemical processes

in attempting to achieve the magnum opus (creation of the philosopher's stone), alchemists devised a 12-step, and to each, a zodiac sign.

which is really good because i get to play theorist and attempt to link things together now :]

tldr: the alchemical processes give us a hint towards character motivations and very general guides for their routes i feel

Mhin - 1 - Calcination - Aries ♈︎

calcination is the thermal treatment of a solid chemical compound, raising it to high temperature without melting it under the restricted supply of oxygen to remove impurities or volatile substances

easy linkage to their desire to rid themself of their curse!

it is interesting how calcination is linked to very controlled fire (who else is linked to fire? kuras!) but more than that I like how it also stresses that the compound must not melt in order for calcination to be successful, could this hint at how carefully mhin (and by extension, the player) must tread in dealing with their curse?

Leander - 3 - Fixation - Gemini ♊︎

fixation is the process where a previously volatile substance is transformed into a form that is not affected by fire - this is done so by separating the substance and putting it back the same or in a different shape at a subatomic level

this honestly screams 'rebirth' to me which isn't surprising at all considering leander is also associated with ouroboros and the triple moon symbol which represent the same theme

it is interesting how fixation stresses the process of breaking something down to recreate it stronger, it's double interesting that making something stronger equals not being affected by fire

all in all leander's link to fixation is telling of his drive for power and knowledge, maybe even through self-destructive means. after all we still don't know where he got that scar from

Ais - 5 - Digestion - Leo ♌︎

digestion is the process where raw materials are transformed into a more purified or refined state - it's more symbolic than the biological digestion and refers more to how a substance undergoes a series of stages leading to its ultimate transformation

if anything, this process is a better link towards ocudeus than ais (who is acting as that fuckass octopus' agent, even if he doesn't know it yet) we know Ocudeus has consumed all challengers within the shroud and is now seeking to expand his domain into the real world after all

that means the raw materials can be seen as those who drink from the Seaspring and thus are transformed and join the groupmind as a big happy family!

it is interesting that many Monsters in the real world are simply bracing themselves for Ocudeus' inevitable onslaught, you'd think someone would warn the humans but at the moment everyone seems more willing to watch it all burn

Vere - 8 - Separation - Scorpio ♏︎

separation is the process where a previous mixture is separated into two or more distinct products in order to obtain purity

in more spiritual terms they highlight a need to distinguish the true self from acquired personality traits shaped by external influences

this one's also pretty obvious (for now...) as we know vere's gotten sick of the senobium and is viewing us, the player, as a new opportunity to get out from his chains

but this has also made me think, after a separation like that there is always waste and byproduct, how are we going to deal with the aftermath? and more importantly, after such a long time of being under the senobium's thumb, who is vere without them?

Kuras - 10 - Putrefaction/Fermentation - Capricorn ♑︎

putrefaction in the purely alchemical sense is linked to nigredo - in modern terms it's simply allowing something to rot undisturbed but I don't necessarily see the links between that and kuras' route unless of course we're supposed to think that kuras is the seed to rotting humanity (which is a bummer.) - putrefaction was necessary to cleanse and cook all alchemical ingredients necessary for the philosopher's stone into a uniform black matter

kuras' linkage to brimstone, sulfur, and divine fire/judgement also lend itself to this definition

cleansing fire and turning everything to ash seem just up kuras' alley in his journey to atonement, we just might get singed along the way

also interestingly nigredo in analytical psychology is also metaphorical for when an individual confronts the shadow within, which are very fitting for kuras' self-imposed guilt and turmoil

[vermilionsun]

TELL ME WHY

I'VE PLAYED THIS DEMO OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN

BUT NEVER HAD I EVER PICKED THE "HESITATE" OPTION FOR LEANDER

I'M A DUMB BITCH HOLY SHIT

BUT I CAME INTO A NEWFOUND REALISATION:

THE MC'S CURSE PROTECTS THEM, IN SOME WAY

(unless I'm the last person in the fandom to notice that, good job me)

If you pick the "Touch him" option, he only says "I told you there's nothing to worry about"

BUT HERE, he comments "That's one hell of a curse :D" meaning he definately feels it and it possibly affects him

Yes, the MC surely has ptsd of some sort and could assume Leander's hand was going for their neck like mrChocky but i highly doubt he was initially going for their shoulder

I believe the MC's curse doesn't affect whoever they touch, but whoever touches them

It's quite a bit of a strech, yes, but still a possibility:

Leander doesn't do the dramatics above if the MC touches him first

MrChocky was the one who touched the MC first and got he affected

And thus I bring in another question: What about Oracle!MC?

"The priests claimed your touch bestowed enlightenment, but a visiting mage revealed your curse for what it is."

It wouldn't be illogical if the priests' words were true; if the MC touches someone, they are "bestowed enlightenment", but if the MC gets touched forcibly/accidentally, the one who touches them goes mad

But that would also mean we'd have the choice of giving Leander more power if we choose to touch him

Also, somehow all the backstory mages seem to have a good understanding of the MC's curse [have seen it/it has been recorded before], or are at least able to recoognise it in order to reveal it to them. Plus, the Alchemist!MC's mage [who was "exiled from the Senobium"] planned on cultivating them as a test subject, meaning not much must be known about said curse.

"It's unlike anything I've ever dealt with," says Leander, a mage who has never stepped foot in the Senobium.

"We can find answers together," Leander promises later on.

Then he stops

He waits for them to touch him

Then he freely unwinds their bandages, allows them to touch his hands, his cheeks, he moves his hands over theirs because they've already accepted him touching them

He could have figured how the MC's curse works, or he could have dark-magic-ed his way into the Senobium files before the MC returned to the Wick again.

[sundayeleith]

Ok so when I said the "mask and all" makes sense for the Abbess is actually Leander's mom theory Leander likes masquarades and some people on a fan server I'm in suggested he does actually because it reminds him of his mom (who he may have not seen much growing up)

Other than that I just think the family drama will be more juicy if his mom is the Abbess and listen we all agree he got mommy issues and I think at least one of his parents is at least affiliated with the Senobium or works there. It would also make his dislike of the Senobium way more personal. On the theme of mommy issues, Leander would be a foil of Alchemist MC because they got some too (Cause of mother figures both treating them badly and being associated with the Senobium)

I'll include more details when I'll post my Leander analysis anyways idk it makes sense to me I won't be disappointed if I'm wrong, again I'll be fine with whatever the devs come up with in the end I trust their writting and storytelling abilities uwu

[portsandstars]

Forbidden magic->

Leander leaving the Senobium bc he was delving into forbidden waters?

Leander being expelled from the Senobium, rather than choosing to leave it?

[theravenanarchy]

It does kinda make me sad how little people think of Leander, I know why. Most "obsessive lover" types are usually shown thru a very specific lens of them "just being crazy" or weird. Obviously that's not how it is in reality (or dare I say GOOD writing), people have reasons for acting they way they do, and these types of characters have only recently started receiving this type of humanization in their stories.

For Leander I have a very strong suspicion that his story will breakdown a lot of these established tropes.

"This character wants you more than anything" becomes "this character wants to be wanted more than anything"

He wants to be your hero, the knight in shining armour you ride off into the sunset with, where everything will be okay forever. To want the same thing being each other, to know you will never hurt or leave each other, to know not even death can separate you.

More than likely because the way he loves has chased others away, he may believe someone can't love him the same way unless he orchestrates everything.

I'd also like to add that all the obsessive lover/yandere stuff comes from people hyper analyzing and patholicizing two interactions with a character that has a very good public reputation, is an established Robinhood type that left his higher class life, who is well educated but still likes to party, also is living thru an apocalypse. It is entirely possible all the spooky shit the devs are showing about him is either over the top or subversive.

Tldr: STOP BEING MEAN TO MY MAN >:( HE'S JUST A BABYGIRL THAT MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW NECROMANCY CAUSE HE CAN...ALSO HE MAY HAVE MOMMY ISSUES but I'll tell you about that theory another day.

[beamkei]

i don’t know if this is a stretch, but i was replaying touchstarved yesterday and i realized that leander has the triple moon on his belt, which reminded me of lady hecate.

i’m a witch myself, so i already have this page on lady hecate and checked what other correspondences they could have, expecting nothing much, really.

but there were more correspondences than i had initially thought.

let’s start with the triple moon. the triple moon represents the different phases of the moon and balance between the material and the spiritual. it only makes sense since we know that leander is a mage himself. it wouldn’t be surprising if he also dabbled in spirituality in his magical practice.

but it is also representing the duality of the light and the darkness. very much fitting for leander, since leander is portrayed as this hero who likes to save everyone, yet there is still darkness in him that we have yet to unravel, something i assume could have something to do with his magic.

leander also holds a key at all times. this could just mean nothing, i mean it’s presumably just a key to his room, but the fact that this is a part of his design is very interesting to me, and keys are also a symbol for hecate. keys represent power and knowledge which can be used to unlock doors, paths to knowledge and power that are hidden or restricted. given leander’s access to forbidden magic, this perfectly fits his character as well. leander has access to magic that is hidden and restricted from everybody else and has thus become a very powerful mage because of it.

the adderstones were once the bloodhounds. now, since this was changed, this might not even be relevant. but i did recall that hecate was associated with dogs. but again, it was much more specific than i had thought. lady hecate is associated with nightly creatures, namely hellhounds: mythological, often demonic canines that are associated with the underworld, the devil, or the realm of the dead.

daggers are also associated with hecate. it represents her hand in life, death and rebirth. she can both take a life and help in creating a new one. leander as the leader of adderstone, has both of said roles. it is almost a symbol of his power and danger. he can easily take the life of someone who is a threat, yet he also assists in helping the people of eridia. and helps MC build their life back up.

and to mention the obvious, lady hecate is, amongst others, the goddess of magic and the occult. she is often invoked during rituals and magickal practices. another one of the animals hecate’s associated with, is serpents. we can see serpentine imagery with leander as well (oh my god i need to make another post about this because i’m not sure if this is a common knowledge in the fandom but i’m freaked out by what i found out).

honestly i don’t know what this means. if leander has access to his magic because he is a hecate devotee or he works with her, or maybe it’s all just a coincidence. either way, i still find it really really interesting especially as a witch lol.

also wrote this while in a theme park school trip and i’m new to the fandom so pls ignore the errors or cmiiw 😭😭🙏

[future-ph3nix]

Ok, what’s up with THAT?? (Leander)

I just realized, MC’s reaction after touching Leander’s face sounds a bit… excessive?

Okay, they’re thrilled by the experience and want to touch him more but the description of their feelings reminds me of someone who’s about to faint or have a panic attack.

Am I reading too much into it or is there something going on?