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transgamerthoughts · 6 months

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Abandon All Delusions Of Control

this is another cross-post. which is funny because I've paid for a domain name redirect to my tumblr since like 2016.. i never know what site is gonna explode these days. less people follow me here than anywhere but this write ups been passed around so...

I've been playing Dragon's Dogma 2 and while I'd love to talk about gameplay or interesting moments, the game's found itself something of a cultural lightning rod. It is a game with many friction points arising in a cultural moment where gamers are, perhaps more than ever, convinced that "consumers" are kings.

Dragon's Dogma 2 is not readily "solvable" and you can't min-max it. You will make mistakes. You will be scraped and bruised and scarred. Pain is sometimes the only bridge that can take us wher ewe need to go. And gaming culture, fed the lie of mastery and player importance, does not understand that scars can be beautiful. I love this game. I think it's a miracle it came out at all.

I also think in spite of the success it's found… that 2024 might be the worst possible year for it to have released.

Let's ramble about it..

It's easy to feel like Hideaki Itsuno and his team miscalculated the amount of friction that players are willing to endure and while I don't think that's true (he didn't miscalculate moreso stick to his particular vision) it certainly appears that we've reached a point in gaming where players, glutted on convenience, don't really know what to do when robbed of it. I've heard folks complain that they can't sprint everywhere or else balk learning that ferrystones required for fast travel cost 10,000 gold as if these shatter DD2 into pieces. I'm vaguely sympathetic to these concerns but at the same time they seem to spring entirely from a lack of understanding of the game's design goals. Much like how folks demanding a traditionally structured RPG narrative from an Octopath game misunderstand what that team is trying to do, players asking to sprint through the world or teleport with ease fundamentally misunderstand what Dragon's Dogma wants. The world is not a wrapper for a story. It is the story. Dragon's Dogma is a story factory whose various textures create unprecedented triumphs and memorable failure.

It is crucial to the experience to allow both of those to occur and live with whatever follows.

I'm always cautious of talking like this because it can come off as smug or superior but I think ultimately that's the truth of the matter here. This was not a well-played franchise before now and even if it's a AAA title, there's a way in which this game is meant to elide most AAA open world trends. You are expected to traverse. If you want relatively cheap and faster travel, you're meant to find an oxcart and pay the (quite modest) fee to move between trade hubs much like you would pay for a silt strider in Morrowind. Even if you do this, you could be ambushed on the road and in the worst case the ox pulling the cart can be killed. Something being "possible" in a game doesn't always mean it is intentional but Dragon's Dogma continually undercuts the player's ability to avoid long treks. Portcrystals, which act as fast travel destinations, are limited and ferry stones (while not prohibitively expensive compared to weapons and armor) are juuust expensive enough that you need to consider if the expense is worthwhile. Once is happenstance. Multiple times is a pattern. And the pattern in Dragon's Dogma is to disincentivize easy travel. It screams of intent.

Something I could not have imagined playing games growing up is the ways in which even a decade (or two) could lead to radically different attitudes on what games should provide. That's an audience issue to an extent but it's also something games have brought upon themselves. The "language" of an open world game has been solidified through years climbable towers, mini-map marked caves, and options to zip around worlds. When a game deviates from that language, the change is more noticeable than ever.

Hell, even Elden Ring (perhaps the closest modern relative to Dragon's Dogma) allows you to warp between bonfires and gives you a steed to ride. But that's also a much larger game! DD2 is not a large game and the story is not long. Yes, you can spend untold hours wandering about into nooks and crannies but a trek from one end of the world to another is still significantly shorter than bounding through most open worlds and a run through the critical path reveals a speedy game. Not as speedy as the first but brisk by genre standards.

exploration is the glue that binds the combat and progression system in place. Upgrading armor and weapons requires seeking out specific materials and fighting certain monsters. Gathering the funds for big purchases in shops mostly comes from selling your excess monster parts. The entire game hinges on the idea of long expeditions where you accrue materials and supplies on the road and then invest that horde one way or another once you return to town. It's not simply a matter of mood and tone for you to trek throughout the world without ease. The gameplay loop is built around it.

There's another complicating factor that I'm less interested in diving into and it's the presence of certain microtransactions at launch. Principally I'm against MTX in single players games, particularly conveniences of which most of DD2's microtransactions are. But I also think there's been a fundamental misunderstanding of what many of these are. Among the biggest things I've heard (repeatedly!) is that you can pay real life money for fast travel but that's not true. You can buy a single portcrystal offering you one more potential location to warp to. It's a one-time purchase and the only travel convenience offered. This has transformed, partly because of people's lack of familiarity with Dragon's Dogma's mechanics, into a claim that you can pay over and over to teleport around. I think that assumption reveals more about the general audience than anything else.

I think it is worth entertaining a question: does the existence of this extra port crystal signify a compromising of the game's goals regarding travel? That's not a discussion that folks seem to be interested in having—instead opting for more emotional and reactionary panicking—but it is the most interesting question. On face the answer is yes and that raises the follow up question of whether or not the developers had knowledge this convenience (though one-off) would be offered to players. If so, did that knowledge affect how they designed the game? Even slightly? It seems rather clear to me that these purchases are a publisher decision; there's nothing in the game's design that suggest the dev team wants players to have access to an extra portcrystal. As we've established it's quite the opposite!

They want you to haul your fucking ass around and get jumped by goblins, buddy.

Which is many words to say that as much as I care about microtransactions from a consumer standpoint, the way in which they undermine Dragon's Dogma 2's goals is a fair reminder of the ways in which they hurt developers. Ultimately, I do think that these purchases are ignorable and in that sense (combined with the misinformation surrounding them) I'm a little burned by the consumer-minded discussion. Doubly so because of the way it feels, at least in part, tied into a certain kind of rhetoric that's been on the rise lately. Instead, I find myself drawn to the question of the damage they do the devs and if more onerous plans actually would force their hands into undercutting portions of their own designs. The shift of many series into live-service chasing suggest so but even as I entertain these thoughts I don't get the sense that Itsuno and his team were forced to reshape their game world to encourage these microtransactions. The world is as they want.

If it wasn't, they wouldn't make it so failing to act quickly in a quest to find a missing kid stolen by wolves could end with you being too late. They wouldn't make it so buying goods from an Elven shop without an interpreter was a hassle. It's present in Every Damn Thing!

More interesting to consider is why this particular game became such a lightning rod of passion when I'm going to assume that most people caught up in the discussion have no particular fealty to the series. The answer is a combination of factors but there's something about the genre that ignites the panic we're seeing as much as the culture moment we're in. When people try to explain that these MTX purchases are not needed, it's confused for approval of their inclusion but that's not something we need to grant. I don't think anyone wants these things here and when they say "you don't need them" they are referring to the more complex thought that the game is better played without them. But this is not heard because the idea that you'd want to opt into friction and discomfort is not something that the general audience is likely to understand. They're wired against it. They crave ease.

not everyone, mind you. DD2's enjoyed a lot of excited reactions (there's tons of folks who like this game as it is and are happily playing it) but it has faced plenty of folks railing against "bad" design choices but the fact remains that those "bad" choices were intentional.

I'm writing about this stuff instead of, say, the wild journey I took solving one of the Sphinx's riddles because the immediately interesting thing about Dragon's Dogma 2 has been what it's become as a cultural object. It is a game suffering from success. Never designed for a general audience or modern standards but thrust into their hands due to Capcom's ongoing renaissance. Dragon's Dogma is a fine game whose cult status is well earned but the reason DD2 garnered this attention (and therefore becomes a hot-topic game) has as much to do with Capcom's ongoing success rate as anything else. In some ways, it actually IS a good time to release a game like Dragon's Dogma 2. There's certainly a curiousity in place. Partly borne of goodwill and also from folks' genuine desire to try something new.

and yet, we're in a odd moment in games. consumer rights lanaguge, having been fundamentally misunderstood and reconfigured by gamers as a rhetoric for justifying their purchase habits (I'm paying the money! why can't the game do exactly as I demand!?) has stifled many people's ability to have imaginative interpretations of gameplay mechanics. they don't ask "what is this thing doing as a storytelling device" (which mechanics are!) and rather default to "what is this thing doing to me and my FUN and my TIME". which are not bad questions but they also misunderstand the possibility space games have to offer. While we can attribute some of the objections that has arisen to players' thoughts about genre itself and the way in which Dragon's Dogma positions friction as a key gameplay pillar, the fact of the matter is that we would not be having such spirited discussion about these things in, say, 2017. not that things were great back then, but I think the audience is worse now in many, many ways. sarcastically? I blame Game Design YouTube.

Even if there were no microtransactions, we'd still be having a degree of Discourse thanks to a key game mechanic: Dragonplague. It is a disease that can afflict your Pawn companions which initially causes them to get mouthy and start to disobey orders. If you notice these signs (alongside ominous glowing eyes) then your Pawn has been infected and you're expected to dismiss them back to the Rift where that infection can spread to another player. The game gives a pop up to the player explaining this the first time they encounter the disease. However, some players have ignored that warning and found a dire consequence: an untreated Pawn can, when the player rests at an inn, go on an overnight rampage that kills the majority of NPCs in whatever settlement they are in. This includes plot-important characters. The reaction's been intense. Reddit always sucks but man… just look…

I understand some of the ire. It's a drastic shift from your pawn being a bit ornery to instantly killing an entire city. On the other hand, the game does warn of potentially dire consequences if a Pawn's sickness is ignored. Players have simply underestimated the scale of that consequence. Surely no major RPG would mass murder important characters and break questlines! We're in post Oblivion/Skyrim world. Important NPCs are essential and cannot be killed, right? Well, wrong and this is another way in which Dragon's Dogma chases after the legacy of a game like Morrowind more than than it adapts current open world trends. This is a world where things can break and the developers have decided that they are okay with it breaking in a very drastic way. It's hard to think of anything comparable in a contemporary game. We don't really do this kind of thing anymore.

The result has been panic and a spread of information both helpful and hopelessly speculative. Is your game ruined? Well, maybe. There is an item you can find which allows for mass resurrection but that's gonna require some questing. But some players also say that you can wait a while and the game will eventually reset back to the pre-murder status quo. What's true? Hard to know. Dragon's Dogma doesn't show all of its cards and won't always explain itself. We know entire cities can be killed. We know that individual characters can be revived in the city morgue or else the settlement restored (mostly) with a special item. Dragonplague is detectable and the worst case scenario is, to some extent or another, something that the player can ameliorate. Those are facts but they don't really matter.

That's because players issue (panick? hysteria?) with dragonplague is as much to do with what it represents as what it does. Players are used to the notion of game worlds being spaces where they get to determine every state of affair. They are, as I've suggested before, eager to play the tyrant. Eager to enact whatever violences or charities that might strike their fancy. They do this with the expectation that they will be rewarded for the latter but face no consequences for the former. Dragonplague argues otherwise. No, it says, this world is also one that belongs to the developers and they are more than fine with heaping dire consequences on players. Before the dragonplague's consequences were known, players were running around the world killing NPCs in cities because it would stabilize the framerate. They're fine with mass murder on their own terms. they love it!

This is made more clear when we look at how Dragon's Dogma handles saving the game. While there are autosaves between battles, players are expected to rest at inns to save their game. This costs some gold, which is a hassle, but the bigger "issue" is that they only have one save slot. Which means that save scumming is not entirely feasible though not impossible with a bit of planning. What it does mean, however, is that the game is saved when a dragonplague attack happens. you have to rest at an inn for this to trigger. which saves the game. They cannot roll back the clock. The tragedy becomes a fact. It's not the only time Dragon's Dogma does this. For instance, players can come into possession of a special arrow that can slay anything. When used, the game saves. Much like how players are given a warning about dragonplague, they're warned before using this arrow: don't miss.

If you do? that's a real shame. The depth of this consequence is uncommon in today's gaming landscape. Games are mostly frivolous and save data is the amber from which players suck crystallized potentialities. Don't like what happened? No worries. Slide into your files and find the frozen world which suits your proclivities. You are God. In Dragon's Dogma, you are not god. The threads of prophecy can be severed and you must persist in the doomed world that's been created. The mere suggestion is an affront. The fact that Dragon's Dogma has the stones to commit to the bit in 2024 is essentially a miracle.

It's easy to boil everything I'm saying down to "Dragon's Dogma is not afraid to be rude to the player" but that doesn't capture the spirit of the design. It invites players to go on a hike. It makes no attempt to hide that the hike is difficult. But that's the extent of it. It offers little guidance on the path, doesn't check if you're a skilled enough hiker. Your decision to go on the hike is taken as proof of your acceptance of the fact that you might fall down.

This is not unique to Dragon's Dogma. In fact, this is part of the appeal (philosophically) of a game like Elden Ring. The difference being that even FromSofts much-lauded gamer gauntlets (excepting perhaps Sekiro, conincidentally their best work) offer more ways to adjust and fix the world state to the player's liking. Even the darling of difficulty will offering you a hand when you fall. Dragon's Dogma is not so eager to do so. In a decade where convenience is king for video games, that represents both a keen understanding of its lineages and a shocking affront to accepted norms and expectations.

The core of Dragon's Dogma, the very defining characteristics that earned it cult status, are the same things that have caused these modern tensions. It is both a franchise utterly consistent in its design priorities and entirely out of touch with the modern audience. Dragon's Dogma 2 has come into prominence during a time where imaginative interpretation of mechanics is at an all time low and calls for "consumer" gratification are taken as truisms. It is a game entirely at odds with the YouTube ecosystem and the very things that give it allure are the tools that have turned it into a debated object.

This flashpoint of discussion is proof of Dragon Dogma 2's design potency. It's also a sign of the damage that modern design trends have done to games as whole and the ongoing fallout that's come from gamers learning design concepts without really understanding what designing a game entails. And, uh… I dunno respond to that or how to end this. That's both very cool but it also bums me out. Dragon's Dogma 2 is a remarkably confident game but games are long beyond the point of admiring a thing for being honest.

#dragon's dogma 2 #games criticism

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slasher-male-wife · 1 year

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Slashers with a hippie s/o

Spring is upon us and I've been leaning into more of a hippie style with the warmer weather. I've been running out of ideas for what to write about so I hope this doesn't suck.

Includes: Bubba Sawyer, Thomas Hewitt, Jason Voorhees, and Baby Firefly

Warnings: Mentions of what slashers do, weed mentions in Babies part

Bubba Sawyer

He honestly loves your style. He's noticed the shift to hippie styles for awhile now while dealing with victims and he's always admired it from afar.

If you go all out with it and don't wear shoes often then Bubba is going to be a bit concerned about you hurting yourself while walking around. He's probably going to refuse to let you leave the house without wearing some kind of shoes.

If you have long enough hair for him to style he's going to have a field day with it. Braiding flowers into your hair, brushing it out, curling it if it's straight or twirling his fingers around it if it's curly. If your hair is more coily/kinky he's going to adore sticking flowers in it and making a flower crown for your hair.

If you need any new clothes or Bubba finds some on a victim that he thinks you'd like he's taking them for you to have. I have a feeling he can sew pretty well so if he ever has enough fabric and a pattern he'll try making you some clothes.

He also enjoys hippie music. It's mostly slow, calming stuff that helps keep his mind at ease. He can't go out and buy new records to play so all of his music comes from the radio which is fine by him.

Thomas Hewitt

His family (meaning Hoyt) has made him look down on hippies since they became aware of what hippies are. But meeting you has challenged his view on them.

If you're a man/look more masculine he's going to feel conflicted about how you dress, because in his eyes (and the way Hoyt has talked about hippies) "real men" don't dress like that. But you, again, change his mind about that.

Will also steal clothes from victims if he thinks you'd like them. Your clothes are going to get dirty often from all of the work you're doing around the house and on the farm so he's going to have a few pairs of work clothes set aside for you.

Over time he becomes more of a fan of your style, even if Hoyt makes comments about it. But when Hoyt does make those rude comments on your style, Thomas gives him a death glare, because he's not brave enough to outright fight his family but he's not below intimidation.

He's also a fan of the music. It's a nice break from all of the screaming and yelling of victims and his family. It's calming to him and whenever he has the time, he likes to put of the radio and dance with you.

Jason Voorhees

Jason lived in the woods for most of the mainstream hippie trends, but he still saw them and he wasn't the biggest fan of the style. His mother raised him Christian, and while I don't think he stayed Christian as he got older, he did keep some ideals from the religion, like modesty.

He's not against your style, he just doesn't love it when you show a lot of skin. But if you make a hippie outfit where you're more modest he's all for that. Although he's also worried about the longevity of the clothing. Because of all the activities you're doing around camp.

Another slasher who will steal clothes from victims to give to you, unless he deems it to be too immodest. Like Bubba he's not letting you leave the house without shoes on. Will honestly only let you keep a pair of boots just because of the practicality of them.

He does like the more nature inspired themes in the hippie style. As your relationship goes on he's going to try and find ways to make hippie clothes more practical for the life you two live.

As for the music, he's kind of a fan. It's not like 80's rock music which I feel like he despises. He likes how it's slow and calmer and while he doesn't agree with all the parts about sex and drugs, he's not too against it.

Baby Firefly

Her style is kind of the opposite of yours. She loves more tight fitting clothing that's all ripped up and edgy. She probably laughed at your outfit and made a comment about it when she first met you. "Just letting you know Woodstock was three years ago."

But she loves dressing you up in whatever stuff she can. She probably has some kind of hippie clothes laying around her bedroom that she'll want you to try on. Half of them are her's, half are from victims. But she's always happy to hit up a second hand store to buy more clothes or try and diy some new ones.

She agrees with some of the ideas that come with being a hippie. She's all for free love and smoking weed, she's against the Government too and she thinks guys with long hair are pretty cute.

Her family is probably going to make comments on your style, except for Mamma and Rufus, they'll be more polite. But if her family makes rude comments about your style she'll defend you. But if a victim insults your style? She's going to see red, because nobody is mean to her s/o unless it's her.

Not a huge fan of hippie music. She prefers heavier stuff, but since you listen to her music all of the time she'll sit and listen to some of yours for a little bit. She can't promise that she won't get bored after a few songs but she'll try her best to not complain about it.

#bubba sawyer #bubba saywer x reader #bubba sawyer x y/n #thomas hewitt #thomas hewitt x you #thomas hewitt x y/n #thomas hewitt x reader #jason voorhees #jason vorhees #jason voorhees x reader #jason vorhees x reader #baby firefly #baby firefly x reader #baby firefly x y/n #slasher x y/n #slasher x reader #slasher fanfiction

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storiesbyjes2g · 5 months

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3.112 Cutting ties

Love Day came upon us again, and it was so nice to have someone to celebrate with. Someone to celebrate, period. Sophia and I rarely did things traditionally, and I continued that trend by asking her out on a breakfast date. I suggested Vivianna's because it was the first place that came to mind, and I really liked their food. But Sophia was in goofball mode and said I wanted to see my girlfriend. I didn't like her saying that, but I loved seeing her in high spirits in those days, so I let it ride. When we got there, the host seated us at the same table from last time, and that sent her even more.

"It's a sign, Luca! If she's our server again, it's means you were meant to be."

I shook my head at her.

"You are way too high on life right now."

She gasped, still giggling at her silly joke.

"Luca! She's here! I think she's coming this way!"

I was still shaking my head when Yasmine walked up.

"Happy Love Day," she said drily. "Y'all don't have restaurants in Oasis Springs?"

"Of course we do," Sophia said before I had a chance to even think of a response. "But we love this one."

"Hmph. You must really love this food. I wouldn't unfriend someone and still show up at their job. Are you ready to order?"

Sophia looked at me in surprise but also trying to hide more giggles.

"Uhh...yeah, we're ready," I said, unsure if I should even respond to the first part.

When I finally looked at her, I saw her face matched her dry tone. Generally, she wasn't the cheeriest sim, but something was off. Granted, I was probably the last sim she wanted to see, but she should have been over that. Something else had to be going on, and I asked if she was okay.

"What do you care? I can't do this right now. I'll send someone else."

She hurried away into the kitchen, leaving us utterly confused.

"What in the world was that?" Sophia asked. "And you unfriended her?"

"Yeah! She's been sending me mean messages ever since-"

"You broke up?"

"Would you stop with that?? She wasn't my girlfriend!"

I couldn't understand why she found this situation so amusing. It annoyed me, but her laughter was so contagious. I couldn't help but laugh, too.

"Did she look different to you?" I asked.

"Sure did. I think she's pregnant."

"Pregnant? Yasmine? No way."

"She's definitely pregnant, babe."

"How do you know? She's not showing."

"Women know these things!"

"Hmph. Some sims don't need to be parents," I said under my breath. At least I thought I did.

"Luca!"

"What? It's true. She doesn't want kids right now. And she's mean...self-absorbed... Can you imagine her raising children?"

"I mean...I don't disagree, but... It's still not a nice thing to say. Maybe taking care of someone else will be good for her."

Nice or not, I meant every word. It was hard not to get upset about it. Sims all around us kept popping up pregnant unexpectedly while Sophia and I woohoo'd each other's brains out to no avail. WE want a baby! Why won't it happen for us? It wasn't fair. But I didn't want to ruin our date with my petty, jealous thoughts. That rant would have to remain in my head.

"Anyway... You excited about moving tomorrow?"

"You know it! I can hardly believe it."

"Yeah, seriously. I've been thinking about that house for so long... I have to keep reminding myself this is real life."

My Social Bunny chime went off, so I checked to see who sent me a message.

"Oh...it's Maira."

"Why do you say it like that?"

"Like what?"

"Like you're surprised your friend is messaging you."

"I'm not surprised. It's just...I don't know. Every time I hear from her, I feel bad."

"How come?"

"Because I'm such a bad friend to her."

Sophia's lip quivered.

"I highly doubt that."

"It's true though! I never call her. She's always the one reaching out. Even back in the day it was like that. When I was open to dating her-well, she says we did date, but whatever. I got mixed signals, so I kinda stopped putting energy into our friendship. Then I met Yasmine-"

"While you were talking to me," she said sarcastically.

Like a light switch flicking on, I understood why she continued to joke about me and Yasmine. She still felt some kind of way about realizing she wasn't the only one I was talking to, and this was her brand of petty behavior. I shook my head because I knew she would never let that go, and the jokes were a permanent part of our marriage.

"Yes, I was talking to you. I met Yasmine and Chi Chi-"

"I thought you didn't date her."

"I didn't. She came to my classes a lot and invited me to her house a few times."

She eyed me suspiciously, but I continued my story.

"Dating, having female friends, and all of that was new to me. I didn't know how to say no to her. I couldn't say no to her; you know how she is. And I was talking to you on top of dealing with my own issues... It was a crazy time, and I didn't know how to handle it all, so I ended up neglecting Maira. I feel bad because it wasn't like that in the beginning."

"You didn't have any distractions then."

"Yeah...that's true."

"Do you think it's time to let her go? Everyone's not meant to be in your life forever."

"I know. That might be part of the issue. I want to be a good friend while being respectful to you, but I honestly don't know how she fits into my life anymore. But severing the relationship? I don't think I want to do that. At least not yet."

"Okay." She turned back to her food and took a few bites before a very obvious idea let up her face. "Since we're moving now, we should do a combo celebration! We can turn my birthday party into a housewarming party! Invite her to that."

"Oooh good thinking! You know I married you for your brains."

"Ah ha! The truth comes out."

#ISBI challenge #sims 4 story #sims 4 gameplay #adolting #adolting gen 3 #luca winston murillo #sophia aguilar #yasmine angel

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hildegardladyofbones · 1 year

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It is so fucking baffling how little care people have when talking about the ussr, even when they're the same people that are super respectful about imperialism, genocide, etc. Not saying they shouldn't be, I'm just wondering where it all goes when the soviet union comes up. Like sure, we're white people, the world isn't systemically against us, not arguing against that, but that doesn't erase the 51 years of dictatorship that we had to live under.

People that barely even know what was happening behind the iron curtain make jokes about stalin, lenin and brežnev. Whenever someone said the word "us" the replies were always "*communism intesifies*", though luckily thay trend seemed to die out. It was disrespectful nevertheless. And if you're from an ex soviet country and say that you don't mind them, good for you, idc. Your opinion doesn't invalidate mine. This not a joking matter. I'm not calling you a bad person if you like those jokes, but the discussion about what was going on is seemingly non existent and we need to have it! People need to at least be aware when they talk about these topics!

I may not have lived through it, but my mom, and her mom did. My grandma has serious hoarding problems now because of the trauma of not having anything. People were afraid to help each other because if you help the wrong person you'll get labeled a traitor. You couldn't escape because you would ruin the life for people that you left behind, because if a family member was against the system then you couldn't get permits for buying cars, let alone moving. There were fucking book burnings. People got sent to siberia for looking at someone wrong. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

What it was was not communism, it was a dictatorship. So don't call me an anti communist. Instead of doing that, pick up the beauty of history by viivi luik. The English translation is free on the Internet archive. If you can get on your hands on it, read the seventh spring of piece and pay attention because that book you have to read in between the lines.

Tl;Dr respect my (and other people's countries') country's trauma and learn what the school didn't teach you because there's no way that this disrespect would exist if people knew.

#the soviet union #ussr #lenin #stalin #communism #estonia #politics

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dimepdf · 2 years

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★ 𝐈 𝐓𝐇𝐈𝐍𝐊 𝐘𝐎𝐔'𝐑𝐄 𝐇𝐎𝐋𝐃𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐇𝐄𝐀𝐑𝐓 𝐎𝐅 𝐌𝐈𝐍𝐄. + 𝐉𝐎𝐄𝐋 𝐌𝐈𝐋𝐋𝐄𝐑

masterlist. / taglist. / any request? synopsis. Joel couldn't help it, he was infatuated with the way you looked, and he would think about you so vividly that it would keep him up to the point of tossing and turning in his bed at night.

─── ☆ notes. I have been stuck in a bit of a funk for awhile, which kind of stinks because a lot of my writing really doesn't reflect how I’ve been feeling lately. I hope this brainrot parts ways with me very soon, but in meantime here is a totally down bad ventfic. | — feedback is always welcomed & don't forget to reblog 🤍

─── ☆ length. 2.9k (24 min read)

Because he had grown up as a single parent, Joel liked to think he had been built with a natural bullshit detector built in.

Having been thrown into the lifestyle of unexpected parenthood by raising the little mischievous girl that was his daughter Sarah for 12 years of his life, he learned the highs and lows that came with raising a child with little to no moral compass.

He had to learn that it was best to go through life being stressed about absolutely everything while also being prepared for everything; that was just his life motto.

It came from the years of hiding the very real emotions he had hidden under his true exterior, from the love of his life leaving him with a baby to somehow floating through his 20s.

Keeping his screws tight and pushing through without taking any handouts from the people that would peer at him with pity in their eyes.

Joel was the type of man to never talk about his troubles to bottle up all his emotions, nor had he ever talked about anything that bothered him outwardly.

Not even to his little brother Tommy, who had certainly made it his mission to lift Joel out of the funk he had always seemed to find himself in.

Joel knew that his lifestyle wasn't that hard, he felt blessed to even have the amount of support and family that he did have left. Sure, he had to live from check to check, but that was the same for most underpaid workers who lived to achieve the American dream.

So, like most, he just sucked it up and did his best to keep his mouth shut and to go about his day as drama-free as he possibly could.

Joel didn't think that he was living a miserable life. He felt it was better to be constantly on edge, knowing the trouble Sarah would get into every time he turned his back to the girl.

In fact, he had many things troubling him in his life, silently adding more and more to his plate as the days unfolded beneath him.

The newest addition was about how he was just on the brink of losing the second job that Tommy had helped him get too, and that just added to how he was supposed to keep a roof over Sarah’s head if he wasn't able to get paid enough to keep food in the fridge.

the last thing Joel wanted for Sarah was for her to feel forced to pick up some slack around the house, knowing her idea of help was using her bad sticky fingers habit.

Remembering how just last spring, when he had let it slip that they might have to cut back on leaving the lights on.

Joel had a rude awakening the next morning to a lengthy lecture over the phone from Sarah's principal about how the little girl had gotten caught scavenging through her classmate's backpacks.

Learning that his daughter was busy pawning anything that she could get her hands on after school wasn't something Joel expected to hear.

So as much as he wished he could give up at times, Joel had made it his mission to raise Sarah so she would not feel like she had to lift even a finger, teaching her that with a bit of hard work, even bigger awards would come.

Though the completely different side of his life, Joel would be busy swatting Tommy away like the pestering little brother that he made himself out to be.

"You just need to get back in the game.” Tommy would insist boldly on wild the suggestion, claiming how Joel wouldn't be so high-strung if he had an actual lady friend to keep him company the nights he had found so difficult to keep his bed warm.

It took a lot of convincing after some years for Joel to finally just bite the bullet, agreeing to go on a few double date nights with Tommy's guidance.

The younger sibling was personally assigned as his overly charismatic wingman, making it his task to saddle whichever poor woman he laid his eyes on across the bar to squeeze next to them for the night.

Many women have met the unfortunate fate, most coming up with an excuse to part ways after they failed to crack Joel from his awkward shell.

It was a constant cycle of nothingness, and the older man returned home at night alone just in time to tuck Sarah into bed. Date after date, Joel had just about given up on seeking out "the one", just in time for the universe to throw him another thing to add onto his plate: new annoying neighbors.

You weren't even allowed to introduce yourself before your dog had made himself at home and snuck into Joel's backyard through the hole in the gate he keeps putting off fixing.

Your little pooch kicking up dirt all over his patio and chewing up all the toys Sarah had left outside that he could get his little paws on, the little girl scared at the sight of her prized dolls all chewed up in pieces, screaming as if she had witnessed a murder happen right in front of her own eyes.

The last thing he had wanted to have to do right after getting off work was chewing out some insolent dog owner for not being to keep a watchful eye on their pet.

Just as he was about to beat down your dog and give you an earful, he halted once your front door had swung open and had been welcomed by the sight of you.

Stumbling a bit over his words, you had managed to piece together the issues, seeing Joel had your dog by its collar and Sarah's look of absolute heartbreak holding pieces of her toys still in hand.

An apology was the first thing you introduced yourself to your new neighbor as your dog was returned.

You explained how you just turned and made the mistake of thinking that the gate that separated your two homes would be enough to keep the puppy out of trouble. You were even kind enough to replace some of the toys Sarah had lost as a nice peace offering.

the two of you even getting closer, giving Sarah something to do over the long weekends, the little girl would slip out of the house to go next door to come to pester you to hang out for the day.

Joel hadn't complained much seeing Sarah become so close to you, though when it came to talking to you himself, his stiff personality would always get in the way of forming a proper conversation with you.

Just being around you made him so suddenly nervous, wanting to have at least some type of friendship with the woman that his daughter found such a delight to be around without turning into some stumbling and bumbling fool.

The situation had only seemed to become even more embarrassing the moment that Tommy had been added to the equation.

It was as if Tommy could read every little expression and problem that was happening in Joel's mind like it was some type of sibling telepathy spilling everything that was clouding his older brother's mind.

It only took one look at how Joel looked at you to finish the entire puzzle piece, and before you knew it, Tommy was setting Joel up to fix the leak in your sink.

Being the best wingman he could be, Tommy took Sarah out on one of their rare movie nights with a wink and a wave to Joel, leaving just the two of you alone for the moment in hopes of something unfolding without any intrusion.

Unfortunately, the rest of the evening alone wasn't as smooth sailing as he had thought it to be, with Joel thinking he was practically torturing you by wriggling into your life in a manner somewhat like an annoying tapeworm.

Joel liked to think of himself as a bit of a gentleman, giving you as much respect as he could while you two were alone in your home. Though he would never admit it, since his last relationship ended, he has grown to have an awkward relationship with any female that isn't his daughter.

His overbearing awakeness comes between holding an actual conversation with you and still learning how to utter the words "no thank you!" as if he were some nervous child.

Like how he couldn’t tell Sarah no every time she would ask to stay up just a few more minutes before her bedtime (those minutes usually leading up to hours) or how every time one of his old flings would come knocking on his front door just magically appearing mostly likely from Tommy's influence on his doorstep holding up some food dish he knew was filled with something vile enough to sit untouched in his fridge for the following week until he would secretly passing it to your dog.

There was another issue that had Joel dodging your eyes—a sudden wave of shame always seemed to follow at just the mere thought of bringing a woman home, knowing there would always be the possibility of you peering through your front curtains and seeing him kissing up against someone else at his doorstep.

Let alone having to explain to both you and Sarah the type of relationship that he had with said woman, it was more than enough anxiety to make him back out of hooking up as a whole.

Joel just couldn't do relationships.

And heaven knows it wasn’t anyone else's fault but his own. It all just makes Joel feel like such a shit person for constantly comparing all the women he has met to everything you do.

Feeling like he was leading all the poor women on, knowing that his heart was completely somewhere else and that no amount of people that he would talk to or hook up with would amount to the emotions and feelings he had for you.

He just couldn't do it.

Not with any of them at least.

Joel was convinced he was a bad person from the moment Tommy and Sarah had left, and he could not stop imagining the very adult things that you both could have been doing instead of fixing your plumbing.

There was just something about your presence that seemed to be so alluring, so intoxicating, to the point where Joel just had to get to work quickly, wanting to fix your sink as fast as he possibly could just to have something to do with his fidgeting, nervous hands.

Squatting down with a grunt to get a better look at the pipes, you had filled the silence with your own sense of conversation, full of that new adult stress that had you bouncing off the walls worrying about finding an ear within Joel, who would on occasion speak up with his own blunt sense of advice.

You were so similar to him, and Joel just loved that about you, and it was scary how he had found someone as troubled as he was.

Not only that, but you were also freaking pretty. It was strange because he had never felt the way he did in such a long time.

You were pretty in the weird way that would make him so nervous to be in the same room as you, how he would stumble his sentences, and how your conversations would always fall awkwardly silent.

Not knowing how to talk to you because he would be too busy trying not to stare or say the wrong thing.

Joel couldn't help it, he was just infatuated with the way you looked, from your glistening brown skin that always looked so soft to the touch to the curls and coils in your hair that looked like it would feel like small little clouds or sugary spun cotton candy in between his fingertips, he wanted so badly to just reach out and touch it—to touch you even.

It was all so wrong, the way he would think about you so vividly that it would keep him up to the point of tossing and turning in his bed at night.

Joel had let your one-sided conversation die down in the air, assuming that your attention had been pulled to something more interesting than watching him work. The last thing he had expected was for you to have noticed him struggling with the stray longer hairs that poked his face.

Making your way over to his side of the cabinets, he hadn't even noticed you leaning down next to him until he flinched at the tap of your fingers against his, trying to grab back his attention.

The position in which you had stood beside him was a heart-hammering sight. He was peering up at you with his mouth slightly gaping.

Joel swore that the way that the kitchen light had glewed through your curls made you seem like some kind of angel trying to bless the sinful thoughts he was having.

The moment wasn't short-lived, watching your hands hesitate before reaching to use one of the scrunchies you had around your wrist to pull his hair away from his face into a small ponytail.

After that exchange, Joel swore that the rest of the day just seemed to continue on with his body moving on autopilot all the way until he was back home resting in his bed.

Just the mere memory of the moment playing over and over in his mind on a loop, laying in his bed with an untouched erection as if he was some sort of pulsing like he was an out of control teenage boy that just discovered what jerking off felt like.

Joel was convinced that his dick was just sort of broken until now. Sure, he would get the occasional morning wood.

Nothing could compare to the feeling of pure arousal that had clouded his mind and left him feeling brick hard, and the worst part was that it was all your fault.

He couldn't believe that he had gotten so spun up about you, thinking about how your fingers had combed through his hair, how those same hands would feel if you just tangled them in his locks and tugged just a bit harder.

His thoughts trailed farther on their own, how your full lips would feel pressed against his own, how they would look all glossed up and wrapped about his dick.

How your voice would sound whimpering out his name under him, having you laid spread out naked in his bed within his own four walls.

It was all your fault for how you had smitten him so easily, with his mind being so fogged that he could barely think about anything but you as he touched himself.

How you had dared to be so much prettier than any of the other women he would meet on Tommy's double dates—which was such a fucked up thing to compare you to—you just had such a personality that made Joel feel so flustered to the point where he ached to have you in his embrace.

to have you close enough that all his senses were taken up by you—how badly he wanted to be held by you, to be smothered in your arms, to bury his face against your chest and melt into an embrace until he smelled like you.

Joel felt like he had to be sick, he had to have fallen ill over the course of meeting you.

It was the only reasonable explanation he could come up with about how just the mere thought of you would make him so hot and heavy.

It was almost agonizing how distracting you were to him at night, the wandering thoughts of you leaving his cock aching against his thigh.

Joel wouldn't even realize he was palming himself through his sweats, recalling how you had practically ruined the entirety of his trajectory. He was already tugging down his joggers, and his hand was crawling under his waistband.

The selfish and completely deprived thoughts would flood his mind at the moment he wrapped his hand around his length.

His hand jerked at his hilt as the other combed through the knotting hair at the base of his scalp, trying to ground himself from the tension that started to knot in his stomach.

The selfish act of pleasure would continue on with no end, all he could think about was how good you were making him feel without even being in the same room as him.

How badly he wanted to press trails of kisses up and down your body, leaving dark little greedy marks against your plush skin.

Joel imagined seeing all of you, all your naked curves and folds, how your plump thighs would look pressed against your chest, how big his hand would look pressing against your stomach pudge.

He was a fucking mess.

His fantasies of you playing out in his mind had him biting his knuckles to keep quiet as he couldn't remember if he had locked his bedroom door or not, and the last thing he needed was Sarah rushing in and killing the mood.

The thin walls don't keep him from unloading all over his hands and pants, bent up strings finally being released with a strained groan parting from his lips as his muscles twitch and his mind finally gets released from the horny rotting intrusion for just a moment he’s floating on a cloud of bliss.

God, how he hated the heart thumping feeling that followed, the minute everything would come back and click into place realizing what he had done and the troubled feelings he had for you.

Joel was convinced he was never going to be able to wrench his heart from your hands anytime soon.

🔖 @adison-smart27

comment below or tap here to be added to taglist.

#[ ⇢ ˗ˏˋ ★ — t.wrks. ]#joel miller #joel miller x reader #joel miller smut #the last of us #pedro pascal #pedro pascal x reader

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gelnailsnoise · 1 month

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Nail Art Color Series

Hey Tumblr fam! 🌟

I just stumbled upon this super cool article about nail art colors, and I had to share the deets with you all. If you’re into nail art or just love keeping your nails on point, this one’s for you!

So, the article dives into the latest nail art color trends, and let me tell you, it’s a rainbow of awesomeness. 🌈 From bold and bright to soft and subtle, there’s something for everyone. Here are some highlights:

Bold Blues: Think electric blue and deep navy. These shades are perfect for making a statement and adding a pop of color to any outfit.

Pretty Pinks: From baby pink to hot pink, these shades are timeless and versatile. Perfect for any occasion, whether you’re going for a cute or classy look.

Gorgeous Greens: Emerald, mint, and everything in between. Green nails are fresh and fun, giving off major spring vibes.

Radiant Reds: Classic red nails never go out of style. They’re bold, sexy, and always in fashion.

Neutral Nudes: If you prefer a more understated look, nude shades are your best friend. They’re chic, elegant, and go with everything.

The article also talks about mixing and matching these colors to create unique designs. You can go for a monochrome look, or mix different shades for a fun and playful vibe. And don’t forget about adding some glitter or metallic accents for that extra sparkle! ✨

Whether you’re doing your nails at home or heading to the salon, these color trends are sure to keep your nails looking fab. So, what are you waiting for? Grab your favorite polish and get creative!

Happy painting! 💅

Full nail color series on my blog: https://nailarts.worldculturepost.com/2024/07/nail-art-color-series.html

Feel free to tweak this to match your personal style or add any other details you think are important! 😊

#nail art #cute nails #nail design #nail color #nail polish #nail style #nails

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true--north · 10 months

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All Is Found: The next right things

Spoilers

A spring day of the young queen Anna. She tries to please everyone and be in time for everything, tries to imitate Elsa's style but it doesn't work because Anna is Anna. I liked Anna/Kristoff&Olaf&Sven chaotic good dynamic in this story, they are so funny as a team running through a daily fuss: Anna's social awkwardness, Kristoff's nonchalance and being-raised-in-the-woods past, Olaf's deeply serious remarks and Sven's "I can't help with these two." Elsa was a supportive figure that appeared at the last moment to lift Anna's spirits.

Some quotes:

This story is a Southern Isles and Hans story, they are well-mentioned here. Anna has an important visit from the Isles, probably that free trade union that was mentioned in "Anna and the King" and "Cold Secrets Deep Down" of All Is Found. Anna kind of still not let her shameful(as she thinks) failure with Hans go.

“Ooh, is this the dress you’re wearing to your meeting with one of the princes from the Southern Isles? I like it. I like it. It says, ‘I’ve forgotten all about your lying youngest brother who pretended to love me and then tried to kill me.’”

“Wait, what?” Anna groaned and yanked on the hairbrush she was using to tame and braid her hair.

There were few things she liked less than being reminded of the very brief period when she’d thought she should marry the evil Prince Hans of the Southern Isles. To be fair, Hans had been the first guy her own age she’d talked to in thirteen years, so maybe it made sense that he’d spun her head a bit.

She was pretty sure that his twelve older brothers were not evil, but some of them delighted in reminding her of her almost-fatal infatuation.

Not evil? Since this book has inherited the Frozen Heart names, validating its existence, does it also inherit their background as it probably should? I see that All Is Found tries to paint Hans as the black sheep of the overall good family.

When Anna rushed into the library, she found Prince Lars of the Southern Isles and his wife, Princess Helga, seated at a long table between two giant stacks of books. Her shoes skidded on the polished wooden floor as she came to a stop above the inlaid design.

Queens were probably not supposed to skid. Or be late. Or get in dubious engagements with men they’d just met. Stupid Hans! He wasn’t even here and he was still making things awkward.

Prince Lars was a tall, round man with a warm smile and large spectacles. Helga was shorter and rounder, with bigger glasses and a bigger smile.

She liked Lars—of the thirteen Southern Isles princes, he might have been her favorite—but he and his wife were the most likely to bore her to sleep with historical facts.

Means that Anna had met the others as well?

Lars and his wife about Elsa and Arendelle:

“Will she be joining us?” asked Helga. “I’ve heard so much about her wonderful powers.”

“My country so enjoyed working with your sister, if only from afar,” added Lars.

“We appreciate the invitation to your home and hope we enjoy working with you just as much.”

Hans's Father the King of the Southern Isles once had given Queen Iduna amber earrings: "They were a symbol of the strong bond between our kingdoms.” Now Anna wears them at the meeting.

“[]Just expressing our gratitude for your hospitality and your willingness to make sure that, er, bit of unpleasantness with Hans doesn’t impact the long friendship between Arendelle and the Southern Isles.” (Lars)

“Unpleasantness? Oh, you mean that time your youngest brother tried to kill me and my sister?” Anna had tried to make it sound like a joke, but the prince and princess winced.

“That would be it,” he said.

Anna probably wasn’t supposed to mention that. Hadn’t she hoped that they wouldn’t mention it? There was a long, uncomfortable silence.

Anna's Queenship

As she dashed through the castle’s corridors, Anna’s braid began to unravel. She tucked it under her crown and hoped it would stay put. Maybe she’d start a new hair trend. Disheveled chic? That could be a thing.

The best part of being queen was the opportunities it gave her to make people’s lives better

She loved meeting Arendellians

Anna wasn’t a little girl anymore. She was the queen of Arendelle. She had been for a few months now, since her sister, Elsa, moved to the Enchanted Forest to bring balance to the Spirits of Nature. Sometimes that idea still baffled her

As she quickly changed into her gown, she wondered, not for the first time, how Elsa had done it all. She knew her sister was amazing—literally magical—but still. Sometimes Anna felt like she needed two of herself so she could be in more places at once

But different scenes for different queens! She and Elsa had their own ways of doing things

Anna knew she still didn’t look like some storybook’s picture of a perfect, regal queen. Her hair was wet; there was dirt beneath her nails; there were pins in her dress, and probably some sugary children’s handprints on it, too—but each of these was a sign of her connection to Arendelle.

She didn’t have to be a queen like anyone else. She only had to be true to herself… and maybe double-check her schedule… and let those who loved her help.

She beamed at her favorite people. “I don’t know what I’d do without you all.”

Elsa helped Anna fasten the earring, then linked her arm through her sister’s. “Well, good thing you’ll never have to find out.”

(Sounds like a premise for F3: Anna all alone)

“I want to be a good queen, but everyone needs something. How do I do the next right thing when they’re all right things and they’re happening at the same time? How did you make being queen look so easy?”

Elsa laughed. “Easy? Being queen is a huge job; it was never easy. If I made it look easy, it’s only because I had you and Olaf and Kristoff and Sven here to help me.”

“You're a great queen. We all think that you're a great queen.” (Elsa)

“You have such a big heart; you want to help everyone—but people want to help you, too. Let us. It’s what sisters do.”(Elsa) (Is it you, Elsa, who says this?)

Little Anna's loneliness:

She crushed the invitation to her chest, remembering all her own birthdays after the castle gates had been shut when she was five. On every birthday candle, she’d wished for friends.

She tried to remember what she’d wanted when she was ten. Mostly it had just been Elsa’s company.

It wasn’t right for a child in Arendelle to have to celebrate her birthday alone. Not if Anna could do something about it

#all is found #queen anna #frohana #frozen 2 #prince hans #hans westergaard #anna and hans

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multiverse-imagines · 1 year

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DO YOU REMEMBER THE "Your Soulmate Can Hear You Sing" TIKTOK TREND?! NOW THINK OF THAT WITH TRIGUN!! 😩😍💘💝

(｡･ω･｡)ﾉ♡This may be too much to request, so please ignore if it's too much! Or at least tell me so I'd know.... 👉👈

(Vash/Wolfwood) couldn't sleep, so they stayed up. Until he hears a voice singing him to sleep...

Reader, after turning (18 or 20) years old, they are given a song to sing to their soulmate. They chose "Fly me to the moon - Nightcore cover" It's such a sweet song, and the lyrics on it are perfect for him

In the morning, (Vash/Wolfwood) ask the others, Meryl, Milly/Roberto, and (Wolfwood/Vash) if they heard it, but they didn't. Milly/Roberto says that maybe it's his soulmate singing to them.

How would (Vash/Wolfwood)'s reaction and thought of having a soulmate?

Bonus: Reader learns they can talk to their soulmate via singing their words to him

Bonus bonus: Reader watches an episode scene of Trigun where (Vash/Wolfwood) has a singing soulmate.

Ps. I can't decide which boy to choose, so I'll let you decide to either pick both or one of them 😅

Pps. Your writing makes me squeal and kick my legs, it's just so good 😩💗💝🎯

A/N: Omg I love the singing soulmate au!!!! And you KNOW I have to do a triangle soulmate!!!!! They both deserve absolutely everything! I also hope it's not too complicated to read. I've made pov by planet, not necessarily who's personal pov, if that makes sense.. enjoy!!!

Jupiter and Mars

Vash x reader x Wolfwood soulmate au!

Earth:

You walked along the local nature trail with one earphone out while you sang to your heart's content, not caring who heard you. You kept one earphone out to best monitor your own melody, using your index finger like a conductor to help guide you to high notes and low notes of each song.

You wanted to go on a relaxing walk before going out with friends for your belated birthday. Nothing crazy, just maybe a nice dinner and playing video games.

Soon a beloved song began on your iPod. A Nightcore song that you preferred over the original for once. Its flowy piano and catchy snare beat improved the original drastically, in your opinion. You swayed in the late morning hours as you sang to the song, making your way towards one of your favorite spots on the trail.

***

Gunsmoke:

"Fly me to the moon, and let me play among the stars." Vash sat up in bed at the Inn to the beautiful melody, "Let me see what spring is like on Jupiter and Mars." Jupiter and Mars? Those were names he hadn't heard in a long time,

"In other words, Hold my hand. In other words, Darling, kiss me." The voice's beautiful vibrato echoed in his mind. He got up, looking around the room, and out through the window. No one was around at this hour.

***

"Fill my heart with song, and let me sing forever more." Nicholas had been listening to the angelic voice half awake in his bed, "You are all I long for. All I worship and adore." He debated grabbing a cigarette from the end table, "In other words, Please be true. In other words, I… love… you…" Nicholas sat on the bed, lighting up another cigarette as the voice began the song over once again.

***

"Did you hear that last night?" Vash asked as he joined Wolfwood, Milly and Meryl at the breakfast table.

"Hear what?" Meryl asked.

"That beautiful song. It had to be sung by an Angel." Vash sighed dreamily as he brought a bite of pancakes to his mouth.

"I didn't hear anything, what about you, Mr. Wolfwood?" Milly smiled at him.

"Yeah, I did hear some singing last night, actually." The whole table paused, "Something about the moon, right? But which one were they singing about?" Vash's eyes widened.

"You heard it too, Wolfwood?"

"Yeah, it was a really pretty song. Why would someone be out in town so late singing that loudly though?" He pointed his fork at Vash.

"Well, I looked outside, and there wasn't-"

"I'm so into you, I can barely breathe. And all I wanna do, is to fall in deep." The angelic voice returned. Vash and Wolfwood jumped to their feet, looking around the room, the other patrons seeming unaware of the siren song resonating in the two gunman's heads.

"You hear that right?" Vash hissed out, still looking for the person singing.

"But close ain't close enough 'Til we cross the line, hey, yeah. So name a game to play And I'll roll the dice, hey." Wolfwood stared at the table, lost in thought.

"Oh, baby, look what you started. The temperature's rising in here. Is this gonna happen? Been waiting and waiting for you to make a move (ooh, ooh)"

"Vash, no one else can hear them." Wolfwood growled.

"Before I make a move (ooh, ooh)" the song soon cut off, as if they were interrupted, but the voice kept humming what must have been the next bit of the song.

"Why can only you two hear it then?" Milly asked.

"Well, if I remember from my past, sometimes people who can hear someone else's song from far away, they're considered… Soulmates…." Vash's face heated up to match the color of his coat.

"Then why can we both…" Nicholas frowned before his face snapped up in realization, "We're both their soulmate!" He exclaimed. Vash nodded, a smile spreading across his face.

"Wait. Does that mean you can hear me sing too? Now that all three of us have this… connection? Let's try it!" Vash left the table, and trotted outside momentarily.

***

Earth:

"So... On the first evening a pebble...From somewhere out of nowhere drops upon the dreaming world." A voice sang to you. You… knew this voice.

The irony that they sang this song. It couldn't be. You… you lived on Earth. B-but Johnny Young Bosch was already confirmed to have found his soulmate (and the age gap was way too massive for anyone's comfort.) It couldn't be him! But… that just meant…

***

Gunsmoke:

"Did you hear me sing, Wolfwood?" Vash came back in.

"Y-yeah, I did. It was that song that your Mom sang, right?"

"Y-yeah." Vash was embarrassed once again.

Here, my turn. I wonder if they can hear me too." He cleared his throat, and glanced around, not knowing what to sing.

He soon settled on a song with no words that he'd heard a while back. He hummed, trying to remember the song. He didn't often pay attention to music, but he did enjoy it.

***

Earth:

M-Moonlight Sonata??? From a different voice??? You paused, analyzing the voice.

"Nicholas…. And that must mean Vash too…" tears soon ran down your face as you spoke your realization. Your soulmates were Nicholas D Wolfwood and Vash the Stampede. Fictional characters. You took a deep breath with your response.

***

Gunsmoke:

"So... futatsu-me no yoru ni

koishi no ko ga te wo tori WARUTSU wo kaku" the voice responded.

"That sounds like…" Nicholas squinted.

"That's the original language that 'Sound Life' was sung in!" Vash exclaimed as the voice then turned to return the melody of the song Wolfwood had sung.

"Quick sing something back!" Wolfwood hissed at Vash. By now, their food was cold and abandoned at their new mission. However they had the attention of the other patrons at this point, so they scrambled up the stairs to Wolfwood's room.

"Are you… our soulmate? What is your name?" He sang once they got settled in a seated position on Wolfwood's bed.

"I think I am. I almost can't believe it's you two." The voice then sang their name to the duo.

"What's that supposed to mean?" Nicholas sang an off key response back.

"Are you Vash and Nicholas?" The voice replied, their own names sounding like heaven to them.

"At your service, my dear." Vash sang back. There was a long pause.

"I… I may never meet you if that's the case." Their voice was shaky as they sang.

"Are they crying?" Wolfwood whispered to Vash.

"Is the infamy of Vash the Stampede and Nicholas D. Wolfwood so scary you would avoid us?" Vash almost seemed annoyed.

"N-No!" The voice was high pitched, almost not constituting as a portion of song, "You're so far away from me. A whole dimension. In my home, far away on Earth, you're not even… real." The last word squeaked out once more.

"Not.. real?" Vash whispered.

"Whaddya mean not real? We're right here for you. We can hear you." Wolfwood sang to them. Another pause.

"You're a fictional series on Earth. A story about Gunsmoke, Vash, and his attempt to save the world from his brother." They sang, "I can never reach you."

***

Earth:

The tears wouldn't stop flowing from your face as Vash and Nicholas tried to comfort you, and ask more questions. You didn't want to answer. You'd found your soulmates, and for what? For them to not even live in this dimension? For them to be fictional by all definitions? You threw a plush toy across the room in frustration. How were you supposed to ever meet them?

***

Gunsmoke:

Their soulmate didn't respond to Vash & Wolfwood's questions after that.

"What do we do now?" Wolfwood asked.

"I think they need a little time. They just found out they have two soulmates who don't exist on the same plane as they do. I… I'm kind of heartbroken for them." Vash glanced up at Nicholas, "I mean, I have you now, but think about them. They're alone… on Earth. In our world's past, they're without us." He frowned.

"You're right…." Wolfwood joined his frown. Vash took Wolfwood's hand.

"Are you… alright, Songbird?" Wolfwood asked their soulmate.

"I don't think so…" their shaky voice replied once more.

"We're with you now. If we can't be there in person, let us be here with you in song."

"Okay, Angel." They replied.

Since then, their soulmate seemed much happier to sing with them everyday. It appeared their day/night cycle was opposite to the one on Gunsmoke. Am and pm were flipped, sometimes causing some nights without sleep for both parties. In the Gunsmoke mornings, Vash and Wolfwood could ask their soulmate how their day had been. They asked if the two of them were staying out of trouble. The answer was always no of course.

Vash and Wolfwood used their new mental connection to allow them to fight with increased synchronicity. Telling each other to watch their 6, or if one of them was injured. This, however, worried you immensely, hearing them get hurt, and not wanting to interrupt their battle, even though your heart ached to help them.

***

Gunsmoke:

You woke up to the uncomfortable feeling of sand. Sand?

Your eyes burst open to see nothing but desert wasteland around you. You would have cried in a panic if it weren't for the fact you could see a town on the horizon.

"Hey, guys, not to scare you, it I just woke up I'm the desert" you sang to your boys, "there's a town on the horizon, but I don't know where I am…."

"Holy fucking shit!" Nicholas sang, but it borders on a scream.

"As soon as you find out, we'll come get you." Vash sang. You hummed in agreement.

You found yourself wandering into a local inn.

"Excuse me, I just wandered in from town, and I lost my map. Which town is this?" You asked the innkeeper at the desk."

"You're in Warren's City. Anything I can help with? You look like you lost your belongings." The man asked.

"N-No, I've actually got a friend in town, so I'll just stay there. How serendipitous." You smiled, and left the Inn."

"Warren's City…" you sang quietly, as there were people about.

"Perfect! You can stay with Frank Marlon!" Vash sang, "Tell him he owes me a favor for the bank robbery!"

"Will do." You sang. You remembered Frank from the TV series. He was a good man.

"It'll be two days before we can get there, so hang tight, songbird!" Nicholas sang to you.

You made your way to his house with the help of some passersby, and found him quite confused to see a stranger at his door. When you explained that you were a friend of Vash's and needed a place to stay until he arrived, Frank was more than welcome to let you stay. During that time, you helped with anything he needed. You managed to learn about the upkeep and repair of various guns.

Two days, just as they said, Vash and Nicholas almost busted down Frank's door, both calling your name as they crashed into you in a hug you thought would tear you apart, and squish you like a toothpaste tube. Nicholas even tripped on his way in, and scrambled to you on his knees. Hugging your waist like a child would to his parents.

"Are you okay? How did you even get here?" Vash asked, cradling your head into his chest, petting your hair.

"I-I don't know, but I'm here now… I'm here…" your body relaxed under their hug.

"Don't worry, Songbird… we'll keep ya safe." Nicholas snuggled into your side.

Since then, you've traveled by their sides, learned how to shoot a gun in case of emergency, and some hand to hand combat for extra Insurance.

One night, when the three of you slept peacefully in your shared bed, you hadn't quite fallen asleep yet, when you gently began to sing petting the hair of both snoozing men who clung to your body in their sleep,

"Fly me to the moon, and let me play among the stars… Let me see what spring is like on Jupiter and Mars…"

End~

Songs used

Fly Me to the Moon- A Nightcore cover

Into you- Ariana Grande (the 80's remix)

Sound Life- Rem- Trigun OST 1st Donuts

Moonlight Sonata- Beethoven

#trigun #vash the stampede #nicholas d. wolfwood #trigun brain rot #vash x reader x wolfwood #soulmate au #singing soulmates au

55 notes · View notes

the-conversation-pod · 1 year

Text

Work, Bitch

This year, BL is trying to grow up and explore what dating looks like once you're outside of school. In this episode, we pit former collaborators Cheewin and New against each other with their pretty much opposite takes on workplace romance.

Ben and NiNi talk Bed Friend and A Boss and A Babe.

"Now get to work, bitch!"

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Google Podcasts

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond to chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

0:00 - Welcome 1:16 - Intro & Trigger Warnings 2:50 - Bed Friend 41:28 - A Boss and a Babe 1:26:09 - Cheewin vs. New

The Conversation: Now With Transcripts!

We received an accessibility request to include transcripts for the podcast. We are working with @ginnymoonbeam on providing the transcripts and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes. When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

0:00 - Welcome

Nini

Hello, hello! Your QL fandom aunty and uncle are here with giant sunglasses, brown liquor in a flask, a folded five-dollar bill to slip into your hand when no one is looking, lukewarm takes, occasional rides on the discourse, deep dives into artistry and the industry.

Ben

Lots of simping! I’m Ben.

Nini

I’m Nini.

Ben

And this is The Conversation. About once a season, we plan to swan in and shoot the shit on faves, flops, and trends that we’ve been noticing in the BL, GL, or QL Industry. Between seasons, you can find us typing way too many words on Tumblr.

1:16 - Intro & Trigger Warnings

Ben

And we're back! Office romance is shaping up to be the trend of the year, with more shows this spring vying to put their stamp on the subgenre. In this episode, we pit former collaborators Cheewin and New against each other, with their… pretty much opposite takes on workplace romance. Nini and I are discussing Bed Friend and A Boss and a Babe.

Nini

Two more different shows I think you could not find. We've got Cheewin versus New, they worked together on Make it Right and Love Sick, they have… diverged? And they have fallen into two very different categories, I think, as auteurs, so this should be interesting. So let's get to it.

Ben

As with every episode this season, we recorded our reactions months ago — or a week ago — and we'll be back at the end to give you our final thoughts and wrap up our feelings on the entirety of this whole workplace nonsense. So: get to work bitch!

Nini

For this episode we wanted to put in a trigger warning, because we will be talking about Bed Friend, and that's going to include discussions of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. So… we just wanted to give y'all a heads up about that — we will put the timestamps in the show description.

2:50 - Bed Friend

Nini

Let's start with Bed Friend. Ben, what is Bed Friend about?

Ben

Bed Friend is a workplace romance involving a friends with benefits dynamic that places a known player, King, in pursuit of the office hottie, Uea. What starts off as just kind of a, kind of sexy thing where Uea’s like, ‘I'm too pretty for you and I don't deal with playboys,’ becomes this really earnest exploration about how lingering trauma can impact your ability to form meaningful relationships with other people, and about how you can create really healthy boundaries with someone in a way that prevents you from actually helping them the way they need to be sometimes. What started off as a show that was advertised to us as just the sexy friends with benefits show ends up being the sexy ‘love can heal all wounds’ show.

Nini

I don't know if it's fair to call it ‘love can heal all wounds,’ I think one of the things that I like most about Bed Friend is that it's clear that love is not what's healing Uea — it's what's driving him to heal himself, I guess? But love in and of itself is not healing. And…dick is not magical, as you are so fond of saying.

Ben

That is true! That is one of the most important things to get from this.

Nini

Yeah, and I like that Bed Friend does not treat dick like it's magical. Uea’s having a great time, King is having a great time, Uea is learning things about himself, and he’s willing to do things that…maybe he never thought he could do before. But King is not fixing him, and I like that. He is fixing himself. He is saving himself: it’s one of my favorite things about this show.

Ben

This was a really unexpected show for me — I was afraid that this was going to be kind of a porn without plot story at first? I was not expecting Uea’s reticence with King to have… a decently grounded basis, and then for some of his other romantic and sexual hangups to be really well grounded. ‘Cause sometimes when they use trauma in these stories, it feels a little pat, like they want to make sure that they have these bits in here so they don't get accused of just writing a boring show? But I think all of Uea's trauma is handled well.

I guess we should drop our trigger warning here for the Bed Friend discussion? We will be discussing the plot and themes that happen in it in its entirety. So this will involve physical, emotional abuse of a child, sexual abuse and assault of a young person and a child, as well as workplace sexual assault by a superior, and other intimate partner violence from an ex — so this is going to get a little bit difficult if those topics are difficult for you. These are interwoven into the core nature of the plot and the way the characters are understood, so it's going to be hard for us to talk around it.

Nini

Yeah, and I don't think we should talk around it, because I think one of the things that Bed Friend wanted to do is that it did want to explore some of that trauma in a healing way? But in order to heal, you have to… go through. It's a difficult watch in a lot of ways. But I understand why they felt they needed to show what they did. A lot of takes that I've seen talk about, that it was trauma porn, or that it's not realistic that somebody would be traumatized so many times in so many ways, and I'm here to tell you, as sad as it is, it's not unrealistic at all? People who are… looking for victims find people who have been already victimized.

Ben

Right, and predators are good at finding weaknesses in the security net around their target. So…one of the moments that stands out to me is with Uea’s ex — I don't remember what his name is, but fuck that guy. Everyone had been hanging around Uea because they knew that this guy was gonna start some stuff, like he shows up and tries to accost Uea during the day. Jade is the only smart person ever in BL, because he calls the building security to come snatch the dude. But like, they know he's going to show up later — everybody asks Uea the right things, like ‘should we file a report, do we need to get a restraining order for this guy?’ Uea’s like ‘no, his dad's a politician, don't worry about it.’

But then later, Uea ends up having to stay late at work because — Mongkol ain’t doing shit, so Uea and Jade are carrying too much work. And he catches Uea in a vulnerable moment when he thinks no one else is around. That's the kind of shit that happens to folks, is they're being stalked by these awful people, who know, like the one brief period where the people who are trying to look out for you blinked, or looked away. And let me tell you, James is very good, because it's been weeks since that scene, and I am still haunted by his voice as Uea calls for help in that moment. That is probably one of the most affecting scenes, from a trauma perspective, that I've ever experienced from Thai dramas—and, period. I am still haunted by James's voice.

Nini

This show took everything that happened to Uea incredibly seriously. That, to me, was one of the really good things about it, because the show wanted to say ‘Look: we want to talk about this and we don't want to talk about this in a shallow way. We want to talk about this in a real way. We want to talk about this in a way that might be helpful to people. We want to talk about this in a way that might be healing to people.’ And I think, because of that, the show took it incredibly seriously.

So, while the show technically—and, ah, when I say technically, from a technical standpoint, in terms of the techniques of filmmaking—it is not the greatest, I really respect the show, because it, I think, mostly accomplished what it set out to do. And what it set out to do, as well, felt worthy to me. I can't really ding this show. I can ding it on editing, I can ding it on sound. There was one full effect that had me cracking up towards the end…but in terms of ‘if it accomplished what it set out to do, and if what it set out to do mattered,’ I think that Bed Friend ticks those boxes.

Ben

She's also dinging it for overuse of the OST.

Nini

I don't even want to get started.

Ben

[laughs] She’s texting me every week, y’all! Like ‘I hate this song!’

Nini

So much! And then worse than the song punching through every moment that is supposed to be like, very romantic and everything, they sub the lyrics of the song. So not only is it punching through aurally, I have to look at what they're saying, and it's so on the nose, because the line they always come in on is ‘I want to be more than a friend’ or some shit like that? And I'm just like ‘ahhh this again!’

Technically, from a filmmaking perspective, this show is not great. There are like a couple of moments in the direction that are interesting? But from a technical standpoint the show is not great. Acting wise: Net and James together? Whenever they're in a scene together they're present, they're there, they make it real. When they're acting outside of that, it's a little wibbly sometimes. James is generally pretty good? All the things that he has to convey he conveys. Net is also… pretty good, James is slightly better than Net. All the things that need to be conveyed they convey. But, when they're working together is probably some of the best work that they do in the show.

Ben

You can tell that these two have been working together for a long time, and that they're very close, and that there's a lot of trust between them. But I agree with you, I think there's a lot of…early Thai BL tendencies in this, and I don't want to be rude to Cheewin on this because, that's my boy, but…everybody feels really stiff sometimes, the blocking is so limited sometimes, like nobody really gets to move around much.

Nini

The blocking’s kind of stiff, like they hold on moments that don't really make sense to hold on, it feels in some ways theatrical sometimes? In a way that doesn't always work on screen because it feels—you're right, stilted. This is part of Cheewin’s style, and it works sometimes, like it worked great in Secret Crush On You, it does not work here so much. But I don't feel like it detracts from the story.

Ben

It doesn't. Like we talk about pulps and like, prestige stuff, and like GMMTV kind of always sits…closer to the prestige end of that spectrum? Like this is probably like two notches below that.

Nini

Yeah. It's like…reaching for a prestige story, with pulp filmmaking techniques.

Ben

Yes. It's in about the same place that I think You’re My Sky sits, in terms of production stuff. Like where they wanted to be good, they were very good. Like they used a lot of their best efforts on the action of the bedroom scenes, whereas You’re My Sky used it on its sports scenes. Which is appropriate because You’re My Sky is a sports show, and this is a friends with benefits story. I feel like that comparison works for me because You’re My Sky is punching way above its weight, in terms of what it’s trying to do.

Nini

I don't know that, in terms of production quality, that Bed Friend sits about the same place—I think it's maybe slightly lower than that in terms of production quality? Mostly because of the…color and the sound. You’re My Sky has way better color and sound.

Ben

That's true. So you're the more romance oriented of the two of us. I think you should unpack the arc of their romance? Before we maybe unpack it more specifically.

Nini

When they do these high heat, more explicit BLs I always like to see how they're utilizing sex scenes and how they're utilizing sex to tell the story. Using sex in a romantic story is always really interesting to me. I've written about this with Kinnporsche and Cutie Pie and now here: I think it's really important that every time we see them have sex, it's a different flavor, something different is happening with them emotionally. Something has changed between them, or something is different between them? And so you can track the actual progress of the emotional relationship through the sexual relationship, which I find is really interesting.

So, King and Uea start this relationship—King has always had a little bit of a thing for Uea and Uea won't give him the time of day because Uea thinks he's a player. Part of that as well is that Uea is…basically catnip: Uea is very, very pretty. He gets a lot of attention—at work, outside of work—and he is just not interested in all these players, and he has put King in that box. They go out for some work thing, and Uea gets stonking drunk. King takes him back to his place, and Uea kind of hangs on to King and…they have sex. There's no other way to describe what happens [laughs], they have raunchy drunk sex.

Ben

I think what happens for King and Uea is: Uea was exhausted by his own life, and he uses… sex to cope with that in those moments? And he knew King wanted him, so he just chose King at that moment. King reacts to it by being embarrassed by it. Despite the questionable nature of their first encounter, that's not what King wants their dynamic to be.

Nini

There’s a lot of speculation that King was in love with Uea from the beginning—I don't necessarily believe that? I think that he has always been interested in Uea, that he is intrigued by Uea, he is definitely attracted to Uea. I don't think that he, at the beginning of this all, that he's already in love with Uea and that he sees this as his chance, which is the conventional wisdom on what happened there. That doesn't feel…correct for me somehow.

King's philosophy on love and sex is that he…enjoys sex, he doesn't see a reason to deny himself sex, he's always honest with his partners about what it is. He's never been in love, but he knows that when he does fall in love that he will be faithful. He's not going to be a player when he's in love.

Uea doesn't believe that. Uea has all these…rules, that come from his trauma, like when he was growing up, when he realized he was gay and he was starting to be interested in boys, his mom called him a slut, she called him all kinds of things, locked him in a bathroom.

Ben

Inflicting a permanent fear of the dark on the poor boy.

Nini

Yeah, so he feels like, if he is more sexually free and open then he's exactly what his mother always said he was. It is part of his entire architecture of himself, that sex is something to be indulged in in a relationship. It is not something that you just go out and do, you have to be in love to have sex otherwise you're a slut, like…he's internalized those messages from his mother.

So his philosophy of love and sex is entirely different from King’s. And how they even get on the same page, how they even get to the point where they could agree to start this friends with benefits relationship is because Uea has let the wall down and King is like ‘okay, you have let the wall down, I'm just going to put it out there and ask for what I want, and let's see what happens’ and Uea is at the point he's just like, ‘you know? Why the fuck not. If I'm gonna be a slut then I'll be that.’ That's where Uea starts.

King's happy to get into this because he thinks, ‘okay well, Uea doesn’t like me, he is never gonna have feelings for me, I'm not going to end up in a situation where I'm with somebody who's going to start clinging to me, that's fine, I can just have really good sex. I already know that we can have good sex because we had good sex, this is gonna be fun and interesting, I’m attracted to this dude, why not?’

Uea’s thing is — he falls in love too easily, because he has to equate love and sex in his mind. When he has sex with somebody, he has to end up in a relationship with them, and that hasn't been working out for him, because all these dudes, they just want to bang him and leave. Or they want to bang him and victimize him, or…all these other things. So his conceptions of sex and love are warped. He falls in love too easily, whereas King does not let himself fall in love.

So the way that they end up together is that they create this this relationship, but there are all these rules. The most important rule I think is Uea saying, ‘okay we'll sleep together, but: if you're sleeping with me, you can't be sleeping with anybody else.’ So that fulfills Uea’s need to not feel like a slut, while still being sexually free. King’s like, ‘the sex is good, I…don't necessarily need to go somewhere else if I'm getting it here. This is fine.’ He accepts the rule, and because he accepts the rule, they can't behave like they would normally behave? Because I get the feeling that King gets bored? And he can't get bored, because if he gets bored, it's gonna be the end of the thing with him and Uea. Uea isn't going to just fall in love with him, because in his head it’s like, ‘oh this is only sex. It's fine.’ So they can't behave the way that they would normally behave in relationships? And it means that they have to be real with each other, in a strange kind of way. And that's where it starts, and that's where it develops from And that took me so long to get out.

Ben

I think what works really well for me, and why I got it for Uea, was he and King have an ill-advised encounter, something I generally enjoy in BL because—I know gay people! It's messy. King doesn't let Uea blow him off, and makes sure that they go and get tested. And that immediately starts to…I don’t want to say demystify, but it doesn't make it this whole thing. King is like, ‘yeah we had a great time, but we probably shouldn’t have done it that way. So that we can both feel okay moving forward, we should do this step.’ and it becomes a little after-school-special-y, but I really like the way it's incorporated into, ‘sex is normal, Uea, we can—we have to do these things so we can move forward.’

Nini

Yeah I did like that, I like the way that King treated that so matter of factly, and because he treated it so matter of factly Uea had to treat it matter of factly as well, like he couldn't be…afraid of it, I guess? King treating it so matter of factly made it feel okay. It made it feel normal. It made it feel like something that he could do. It made it feel, ‘okay, all right, maybe he's not a total irresponsible human being’ kind of thing? So it starts the softening. I agree it does start the softening towards King.

Ben

I like how as they get closer to each other, the complications from Uea’s trauma come up in a way that doesn't immediately get explained to King. And I like that King…asks up to a line. He knew, kind of, what was going on with Pock—he did not know what was going on with Uea’s family for a long time, and it's the fact that King doesn't push, and respects these rules, that kind of gets them into trouble at some point? Because King gets just a little bit jealous and thinks that Uea maybe wanted Krit's attention? And says some nasty things to Uea, because he's not sure how serious Uea is, because Uea’s always playing aloof with him.

Nini

I like that King knows where the boundaries are, and he knows when he has crossed one, and he pulls back? I also like that he makes mistakes in doing that. So many commenters, so many people, have labeled King “green flag,” and I have real problems with the green flag label, as applied to people or characters, as opposed to actions or behaviors. And one of the reasons that I have a problem with that label applied to people and characters is some of what the commentary was around, for example King, having that fight with Uea about Krit, who is his boss who is harassing him. Everybody’s like ‘well. why would he do that, he should know better’ and the thing is that no, he's human, he doesn't know what's happening. He's having these negative feelings, he's jealous. He's never been jealous before, because he hasn't cared about anybody in the way that he cares about Uea. He's in this weird place where he feels like he knows Uea, but there's clearly stuff that Uea isn't telling him, that is feeding into his insecurity. He likes Uea, he wants to be with Uea, Uea isn't giving him anything to go on, and he is almost afraid to ask?

So he’s… having these negative emotions, and he's expressing them in a negative way, which is so human, but it just becomes a thing like, ‘oh, red flag red flag’ I'm like no, he's not—people are not green flags, behaviors are green flags. And some people are going to deal with a situation in the right way, and deal with another situation in the wrong way, and then realize that they've maybe dealt with that situation in the wrong way and correct themselves, which is what King did.

But like the whole green flag discourse, I don't like it, it just makes me uncomfortable.

Ben

I'm going to beg all of you to let go of Calvinism when you watch these shows. You have to let go of predeterminationism when you're trying to deal with real people. People do things: they are not the things they do. It's really really unhealthy to project so much onto these characters. This need for them to be an idealized version of the person you either want, or want to be. It's… not good? You have to appreciate that people are complicated, and like yes, it's fiction, but one thing about fiction versus reality is that fiction has to make sense for us to enjoy it?

Our lives don't always…but it is not unreasonable for King, a character we know has fallen desperately in love with Uea, to be frustrated that Uea doesn't seem to be acknowledging the feelings that King is expressing, within the confines of the box Uea put them in. That's an ugly moment, and King is wrong, and he knows he's wrong. But I feel like a lot of people got hung up on this moment, and they couldn't reconcile the version of King that's really kind and gentle with Uea and understanding with Uea and patient with Uea, with the version of King that gets frustrated about how maybe sometimes Uea doesn't always appreciate that.

Nini

We talk a lot on this show about how we are always refreshed when characters are allowed to be wrong. And this is another instance where I was glad that they let that sit the way that it was, that King was wrong. And King was shown to be wrong, and he had to go and apologize and make up for it, because he was wrong. And then because he was sincere in his apology and his making up for it, they were able to move past it. It's not that it suddenly becomes right, or that King is suddenly an awful person or whatever it is. But it's the fact of the process: I had an ugly outburst that came from an insecure place. I knew it was wrong when I was saying it, but it came out anyway.

Ben

And here's how I'd like to make up for it: first, I got that motherfucker fired! [laughs]

Nini

In the grand scheme of the plot of the show, it ended up for most people being a blip—and that's the other thing I don't like about the green flag label, because it's something that happened, and should be, like, acknowledged to have happened and discussed to have happened. But because people like the King character and think that the King character is a good person, they gloss over it. So you have two reactions to it, either people get really into the idea of it and ‘oh my god why did they do that,’ and ‘they ruined the character,’ or they get into ‘I'm just going to pretend this never happened,’ and neither of those is a great way of dealing with it. [laughs]

Ben

I really just despise that kind of —

Nini

Yeah I, I don't, I don't like that.

Ben

But we should talk about character motivations, and the ways they express their motivations, and how the character's motivations and the actions they take in the story contribute to the overall narrative that's being told here, and the kind of ideas that the show is asking us to play with as a result. And it's so frustrating when we have to go “This character is a good person, this character is a bad person.” I don't like the finality of the tone when people say that sometimes.

Like even with Krit, and whatever Uea’s stepdad's name is. Krit was making vile choices, but like it's important to remember that he's consistently making the choice to do that, like, he's not out of control of himself. He's not a monster in the sense of, ‘he is this antagonistic force that's acting on Uea and other members of the plot.’ He's a person in power who's used to getting what he wants and abusing it horribly, and choosing to do it consistently, not only to Uea but other staff members as well.

Nini

This is the thing where you label characters villains — to me I've always said villainy is cruelty. So the fact that he's consistently and continually making the choice to behave the way that he does and he's never apologetic about it. That, I think, would cross him into the line of villainy. But I'm acknowledging that this is a character…engaging in actions. The actions are negative, but it's the consistency of the negative actions and the unapologeticness for the negative actions, which are what cross over into villainy.

Ben

I really liked Net and James's overall chemistry in this show. Like what works so well about them is, because sex is such a big deal in this show, there's a moment really early on, around episode 3 or 4 I believe? When Uea’s had a particularly difficult day on his…sister's birthday I think, and he goes back home, has a terrible encounter with the stepdad.

Nini

It's his birthday, actually.

Ben

Ah, eww! [sighs] He goes to King's place, and while King is excited to get one of their three sessions in a week—as part of their rules—ah, he senses something is wrong, right away. And he dials back the encounter, encourages Uea to take a bath and relax and calm down, and then brings him a cake to celebrate his birthday. And that was one of those moments where things felt like they started to turn for me, because they didn't exactly have sex right away that time. And that felt just as significant as the sex that they were having.

Nini

I did like that scene because Uea comes in basically hot and sweaty, hell bent for leather. He comes in that door and he's ready. He's feeling bad, he wants to feel good, so he basically attacks King [laughs] as he comes through the door and King is like, ‘not that I don't like this, but are you okay?’ which is huge.

Ben

And then Uea admits that he isn't.

Nini

And then Uea admits that he's not okay, so it's huge on both their sides. It's on the one side, Uea is seeing that King actually cares about him as a person, in turn Uea feels now more open to admit something internal or deep in himself. He is not okay. And then King takes care of him not being okay, and then King does something for him that he couldn't have possibly known was going to touch him in the way that it touched him. But because King is being thoughtful in that moment, it ends up being exactly the thing that Uea needs, because he could not have known about the birthday cake trauma that Uea has.

Basically Uea has never had a birthday cake. He celebrated his birthdays by himself, with a candle on an empty plate, and King could not have known that getting Uea a birthday cake would be one of the most thoughtful, amazing things that he could have done for him. But it is. And Uea, he’s so—you can see it on his face, it's some of the best acting that James did, and James did a lot of good acting. The way that he looks at King when King brings him that cake? It's awe. There's no other word to describe it. It's absolute awe.

Ben

It was really good. There's been a couple of times where I really like the way James as Uea looked at King. When he brings out the cat ears—great acting by Net in that scene, because Net plays King as extremely aroused with anticipation about this, and also a little bit nervous? And the way James responds as Uea, where Uea sinks into like his kind of aloof thing of mild annoyance, as he sees the cat ears after handing the glass off? Absolutely fantastic.

Nini

But the way the moment turns when he looks at King, and he sees that actually, King's nervous about this. Because this is a very vulnerable thing, to open yourself up to share a kink with somebody. You don't know how they're going to react to it, it's an incredibly vulnerable thing. And so he sees that King is being vulnerable with him in this moment, and he's almost holding his breath?

Ben

While panting? While panting heavily? [laughs]

Nini

Somehow at the same time holding his breath and breathing more heavy, I don't know how he's doing both at the same time, but he's accomplishing it, right? But basically Uea sees that King's really nervous about this and he's like, ‘Okay, he is being open and vulnerable, I am willing to do this.’ That was a major turning point in their relationship. Kink became a major turning point in their relationship—the fact that King asked for it, the fact that Uea saw what King asking for it meant, and the fact that Uea responded to King asking for it with a, ‘I will do this for you. And I will enjoy this.’ And then they did enjoy it!

Ben

It's maybe me, but it's implied that I think they switched that night too.

Nini

It is heavily implied. Of course they never exactly say what they're doing. You know there's always a lot of hand wave around the sex in these shows, even when they're pretty explicit, but it's heavily implied, that yes. That the vulnerability extends beyond the kink itself into other kinds of vulnerability within the sex.

Ben

They were so giddy the next day at work—that really sells that scene, too. The followup of them being kind of like—embarrassed is the wrong term, but like they were giddy with each other.

Nini

Giddy is the exact right word. They're not embarrassed, they feel aglow. It's very clear that something shifted between them that night? Their relationship feels different the day after that. And there is a moment where they're at the office, and they're kind of smiling at each other and King like calls Uea on the phone so he can, you know, have the conversation with him. And he asks him to go away with him, and he nearly says ‘I love you’ on that phone call. I think I understand what reasons that he holds back from doing it, I think at that point he's ready to do it but he wants to do it in a really romantic way? So he holds back from it. But… at that point, like if he had said that to Uea, and if he had asked Uea at that point, ‘will you be my boyfriend?’ Uea would have said yes.

Ben

I think that's the biggest thing with King is, he gets in his head a little bit? And I think every time he wants to say it to Uea, he thinks Uea will reject him or scoff at him. And so he doesn't say it.

Nini

But I don't think that's what that was in that moment, I think he held back in that moment because he wanted to make it a bigger deal. He didn't just want to say it on the phone at the office. Because I don't think in that moment that he thinks that Uea will reject him. In other moments, definitely, but not in that moment.

Ben

I don't know. It's one of those moments where I just wish he really would have said it then? Because it would have saved us all a lot of trouble.

Nini

[laughs] Oh boy, but then the show would have also been shorter.

Ben

Speaking of which! I like how the last two additional episodes give us the chance to see Uea coming down from the high state of tension he's existed in for a long time. Like seeing the stepdad go to jail, and seeing Krit no longer at their workplace, having the boss say, ‘this horrible thing happened to you, we're going to pay for treatment to help you manage this long-term.’ Getting used to his regimen with his medicine. Being open with King about that. And then being able to enjoy a version of his life where all of the people who hurt him the most have been removed from the equation.

Nini

People called the last two episodes unnecessary and fluff; I don't subscribe to that, I think that they were very important, especially episode 9. Episode 10’s a little fluffy, but episode 9, I really think that that was all really necessary stuff. If for nothing else, for the fact that Uea gets to go to therapy. That the therapist or the psychiatrist has prescribed him medication, that he is open about it, that he is now in a place where he can tell King the things that have happened to him? And that King reacts to them in the way that he reacts to them—he's very focused on Uea, and the fact that Uea’s sharing this with him means something to him, and he's not going to retraumatize Uea by making Uea’s shit about him.

Bottom line is, I think Bed Friend was absolutely worth it. It is a lot of triggers, a lot of trauma, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it because of that? But once you give all the necessary trigger warnings and everything, and it's something that you feel like you can handle, I would recommend watching it. I gave it a 9 because the editing was on crack and ayahuasca, I swear to god.

Ben

I gave it a 9, I don't think the workplace stuff was used consistently. I felt like they had to consistently go back to be like ‘oh right, this is a workplace show, we need to do something at the office.’

Nini

The workplace stuff wasn't integrated well, and it's a real shame because the workplace story is so crucial to the rest of the story? And I just find that it wasn't integrated well at all, and then they had those two weird characters, and they used them as comic relief that didn't quite work? Bed Friend’s a 9, it is a ‘recommend with warnings’ show.

Ben

I think the warnings are necessary but not because I think they're handled poorly? You just shouldn't be blindsided by them as they come into play.

Nini

And the show does blindside you with them, to be fair. If you're not prepared for it, they seem to come out of the blue. But that's also part of what the show is trying to do, it's trying to show you that you can't tell. So I, I appreciate the show using it like that. But at the same time, nobody should be blindsided like that.

Ben

I liked it, sincerely.

Nini

Yeah, I think it's a good show.

41:28 A Boss and a Babe

Nini

The second of our workplace BLs that we're going to talk about this season is A Boss and a Babe. Ben, what is A Boss and a Babe about?

Ben

A Boss and a Babe is about this character named Cher who is a new intern at a fairly small-ish gaming company. While there he ends up befriending the CEO of this company and getting deep into this guy's sad gay feelings. The two of them develop a consensual workplace relationship that everyone frowns at. A lot of different things happened, but eventually the two of them make it and are on a marriage track now. Kind of a hot mess of a description but, but it's a hot mess of a show. [laughs]

Nini

That was surprisingly concise for you, I was about to say.

Ben

There's a lot to unpack! But it's a mess!

Nini

I think we're in agreement that this show had problems. [both laugh] But—but—we still had enjoyment from this show, I think. Let's start with what we liked. What did you like about the show?

Ben

I like the cast. Force in particular is very good at expressing fondness with just his face. I also really enjoyed Book getting to play a manic pixie dream boy in this one, because he has just such an ethereal quality because of how bright his skin is, and…the way like, light reflects off of him? But if you use, like, a softer lens he tends to glow. And so, because he seems a little unreal when you just stare at him sometimes, it was really good to make him an almost hyper-real character? And he plays high energy actually really well.

I actually liked Mike in this, I'm not always a fan of Mike? I thought Mike played Jack really well, overall. I can't remember the name of the actress who plays Oi right now, but she's so funny. [laughs] Like, you can see the cast struggling to hold themselves together with her around, I thought that that was a real delight.

I liked the way the show looked overall? Because New, despite all the things we're gonna say about him later in this episode. He's very good about using money effectively, and this show was consistently decent to look at. Speaking of decent to look at, Thor looked great in this show? My goodness. It was nice to see Thor in a glow-up after playing such a sad sack in The Warp Effect.

Nini

I also like the cast. I think that everybody was playing at a fairly high level. I enjoyed the work that they were doing, I enjoyed the interplay between the cast—because this is a cast that had a lot of interaction, and I like the way that the cast dynamics worked out, whether it was Gun and Cher, whether it was Cher and Jack, whether it was the gamers, whether it was the workplace gang. Whatever configuration it ended up being, the energy and the interaction between the members of the cast in every permutation was really good.

I actually enjoyed the core story. I like the idea of a sad misunderstood dude, who, everybody thinks that he's grumpy and terrible, but he's really just sad and awkward—him coming out of his shell because somebody just pays attention to him and is kind? I like that central conceit. I like the idea of you know, being kind to somebody as an initial outpouring rather than in reaction to something? I like that Cher just looks at this sad guy, and is just like ‘No!’ [laughs] and it just goes from there.

I like how self-aware all of the characters are. As much as…there's like a screwball energy going on, and you know there's a lot of ‘who's on first’ and weird dizziness, all of the characters are really self-aware. They interrogate their thoughts. They come to conclusions about themselves that are mostly correct. They have big blind spots, yes, but the way that it works is that they can't see something about themselves, but somebody else who's in their circle can see it and can tell them about it, and they're close enough and open enough that they can listen? In the early parts of the show, it's a lot about perception and how people make up stories in their head about people that turn out to not be true?

Ben

That works really well.

Nini

That works really well in the beginning half of the show, I think. I like Force and Book, I like Gun and Cher as characters. The thing of this story is, this is an incredibly inappropriate workplace relationship [laughs]. This is a CEO and an intern! In any sense, this is incredibly inappropriate, but you still have to want to root for them, and you do, from the beginning. Mostly because Cher doesn't give a fuck about this job.

Ben

That’s actually something you and I talked about around episode 2 or 3, we're like, this dynamic would not work if Cher gave a single shit about this job.

Nini

He does not, and that's exactly why it works. It's just like, ‘I'm just here to get a signature on a piece of paper and then I'm out, going on to live my life, so whatever happens here is just bonus.” And part of the bonus is you got yourself a boyfriend, well done!

I like all of this, I like the character development, particularly for the central characters, so for Cher and for Gun. That's really the only characters that do get developed, and that's one of the things that we're going to talk about when we talk about what we didn't like.

Anything else that you really liked about it?

Ben

I liked how queer a lot of the dynamics felt. I liked that Gun felt like he was begrudgingly still best friends with his ex, because that [laughs] is super real in queer circles, because there's just not a lot of us who we can rely upon, so like, it isn't always easy to just be like ‘I'm over this person!’ and then you sort your friends and just move on.

I liked the way Cher came into his own…sexuality. I like that Cher was stunted a bit by the uncomfortable histories that had defined his first really big love? And I really liked the way Three and Zo were used in this show. I liked that even though they're kind of an overly sappy kind of obnoxious BL couple, they're presented as an ideal that a lonely gay man hopes that he can have someday. And we got to see Fluke be like a goofy gay dude again! With a newbie who clearly was having a bunch of fun palling around on set.

Nini

I love Zo as a character. Zo is the youngest of the characters but he's definitely the mom friend.

Ben

I actually liked the gaming stuff, too. I played a specific video game, at a very high level for a very long time, and so I get the amount of practice and determination in the way you get heated about stuff. Like when Three has that huge angry blow-up and storms off, I'm like, I've been that captain. And they were playing for real money, and they did win real money. And as we know some of these characters genuinely needed that money, so there was quite a bit on the line for them.

Nini

But you see here's the thing about this now, and we're, I guess, starting to delve into the parts of the show that I didn't really like. This stuff is happening mostly in the background, which is fine, like this stuff doesn't necessarily have to be foregrounded. But all of these emotions and all the things that go along with it, they're not given thematic heft in the story, and that's a complaint I have about some of the secondary plot points, and towards the end, even some of the primary plot points in the story.

So, what didn't work for me? I don't know if I can talk about what didn't work for me without cussing New out, and I want to get like a good stretch of time to cuss New out. [both laugh]

Ben

Alright, so I guess I'll talk about some things that I really struggled with. I think the primary frustration I have with A Boss and a Babe is the problem I have with a lot of pulps. It feels like there are three or more pitches, that were haphazardly consolidated into a single script. Like, clearly they wanted New to do a workplace show. But someone else around them really wanted to do a show about gamers. And so they compromised by doing the gamer story as part of the friend group, and they made the workplace a game development studio. Okay.

But the problem is that, like with so many of his scripts, I just don't think New cares about all of the things that he has to execute in the project? Like he always cares about the gay ideas, like—like Gun is a lonely gay man who is lonely because everybody intentionally misunderstands him and makes up stories about him? The sheer presence of constant homophobia, and the surveillance of being a rich dude who, anytime he does anything apparently makes the fucking papers is…like, totally palpable. And Cher responding to everyone in the village he grew up with thinking that he's the reason that his best friend, who he loved, died—is horrible! And I totally see him responding to that by projecting this aura of positivity and confidence as a way to cope. And like these ideas play out really well early on, but they don't really know what to do with the follow-through for that.

And then on the other end of the weirdness with that is…the reality of what happens to Tian is not given the kind of focus and respect that I think it needs to in the story. And like, as always with this, like there are a lot of ideas I like. Like Thoop not really knowing how to deal with the fact that he is financially reliant on Cher, but not able to tell Cher about what happened because of a sense of loyalty? And then being mad at Cher for moving on from Tian, because he's carrying around a whole secret about Tian. He's being loyal to her memory. So Cher is not going to be loyal to her? Because he wants to go mess around with this dude?

Like, I get it after the fact, but with so much of New’s stuff, I feel like I'm discovering the emotion of why I cared about this after it's resolved, not while it's building. That's the problem with A Boss and a Babe, is I'm constructing a functional narrative after the fact. And then there are bits that he uses that he just discarded. Like, Gun has huge feelings about the fact that he fell out with Thyme, and they have a couple of really ugly fights in the show that I thought were actually really well executed. But then, even after it's revealed that Thyme didn't really do anything wrong, there's not really any closure there for the audience on that particular plotline? And I'm like, why was Drake even in this show?

Nini

I feel like I have a very strong sense of who every one of the characters is, and what motivates them, what their goals are, what some of their dreams are, I feel like I have a very strong sense of who these characters are. And that's partially the writing and partially the acting, which is how you want it to be. But I feel like the story writing is at best inconsistent and at worst pretty weak. And I feel like that's New all over. I want to get to a point where we can really have the New discussion but I don't want to like, supersede the show discussion with the New discussion, even though they are related.

Ben

The question really is like what is A Boss and a Babe about? And it… is about too many different things. Like it doesn't really plant its feet anywhere. And that's what's really frustrating. Like, I can't really sum up the show, say, ‘this show is about a sad lonely gay man and the manic pixie dream boy that showed up at his job and fixed his life.’ Because like sure, that's kind of what happened, but it’s also not…it's difficult.

Like there were a lot of complaints about the character writing being inconsistent in the show, and it isn't, it's the plotting that's inconsistent. They don't know what they want to put these characters through. There's this whole reveal about like the mole plot that's underpinning a big part of the season, and we thought that it made most sense for Jack to be the mole, and for there to be some sort of complicated history between Jack and Thyme. And I feel like that was definitely in the script at some point, and got yanked late, which is why Drake doesn't appear in the final episode.

Nini

You've given like one conception of what the show is about, which is Gun’s perspective. But if you flip it and look at it from like Cher’s perspective, the show is about a kid, who’s had a rough go of it, but decided to put on a brave face and tough it out, learning that he doesn't have to do that all the time? And being able to actually lean on somebody. Because even with his friends, like, Cher puts on this happy face, and it's only as time goes on, and he starts interacting with Gun and those walls start coming down, that he's even more open with his friends about certain things. That's another conception of what the story's about.

Again, like you said, there are all these different conceptions of what this story’s about, but there isn't a definitive, ‘this is what the story is’ kind of idea. Even in the plots that should integrate but don't: Gun owns, Jack works at, and Cher is interning at a game development company; Cher and Jack and their friends are on a gaming team. And those things don't interact at all.

Ben

I thought there was going to be more about the digital age stuff, with the fact that Cher runs an ASMR channel, and that is just sort of like a throwaway to establish that Gun was maybe already curious about Cher, for other reasons?

Nini

And then they tie that back to like, what Cher and Tian wanted to do before everything went to shit, which was that they wanted to get into that whole like…digital content space, and then that just falls away?

Ben

What we have arrived at is, this is a script that could have done with maybe three more months of cooking.

Nini

It's not even just the amount of time. It's that [sigh] New—I'm sorry I'm just gonna have to go for it. Okay—

Ben

Go for it, sweetie!

Nini

New Fucking Siwaj, man, like. I feel like New always does this to me. Now, Ben is a big fan of New Siwaj. I don't know that I would call myself a fan of New Siwaj, but I will say that New Siwaj to me is a very interesting auteur. And the reason that New Siwaj is an interesting auteur to me is that he has really solid ideas. I feel like…the things that he wants to talk about are things that need to be talked about, and the way that he conceives of them, and the way that he thinks about them, I think is really interesting, but.

I want New to go to the gym. Do an upper body workout. So that he can carry his ideas further than he does. Because I don't know if his arms are weak, I don't know what it is, he just can't carry his ideas forward. He gets distracted by shiny things, he gets bored I think with some of his ideas like halfway through… You know what it is? It's that meme of drawing the horse, where the front end of the horse is like really detailed and like…

Ben

[laughs] And then he ran out of time.

Nini

…very well done, and then the back end of the horse is a stick drawing? That's how I feel about New Siwaj. I feel like he starts out with all the best intentions and he actually has really good ideas, and the things that he wants to talk about are interesting things that I would like to see portrayed in media and portrayed in these stories that he wants to tell. I feel like he then, once he has started doing it, he just wakes up one morning he goes “Eh” [laughs]

And that's like it and then he’s just, like, phoning it in until the end—like that's how it feels, like all his work feels like that to me. And this is, to me, classic New Siwaj. Classic classic classic New Siwaj stuff. Because all the stuff that he normally wants to talk about? It's all here. New loves a sad gay.

Ben

That's why he's my favorite.

Nini

New loves a love interest sort of barrelling in. New loves a supportive friend group. New loves a ‘figuring out and then discovering your sexuality’ story, where you're supported without being outed, where your friends are like ‘well we know, but until you tell us we don't know nothing.’ Like these are all hallmarks of New, if you look at all New Siwaj’s work, if you look at Love By Chance if you look at Until We Meet Again, if you look at My Only 12%—if you look at these things, A Boss and a Babe is very obviously a New Siwaj show. It fits in with all the themes that New Siwaj enjoys like exploring in his shows.

And just as well as that, it is plagued by all the New Siwaj problems. He absolutely needs to collaborate because New on his own, he has great ideas but his execution is so spotty. New is great at a scene. Scene work? He's one of the masters. When I look at specific scenes, and then a number of those specific scenes, the scenes that he was really interested in getting right? And how he constructed them, and how he directed them, like I see the talent. But then, he puts those scenes together haphazardly, whether it's in an episode or an arc or in the entire story. It doesn't flow the right way. He can't construct, to me, anything longer than a scene. And then, I feel like he doesn't storyboard, so plot threads like, they come up and they go down and they disappear and they reappear and there's no throughline to a lot of the things. He loves third act left field bullshit which—why? Why, after I have gone through this story, we are now in the third act and something is coming that never was never a part of the discussion, suddenly coming in and taking over the whole story.

I want to love New Siwaj's work. Because New Siwaj has good, interesting ideas. When he is actually interested in seeing those ideas through? He can do really well, and then also when he's collaborating with other people on his ideas? It works really well, because they temper the worst of his bullshit. But when it's just New playing in a sandbox by himself, it feels very dilettante. Sometimes he just feels like a bored rich kid.

It's so upsetting! I want to shake him! I want to be like ‘Sir! Snap the fuck out of it, you can do this!’ [laughs] ‘You can do this, you just need to focus.’

Ben

I don't think it's about, like him needing to focus more or work harder. He feels like the usual issue that really talented and gifted people have? Of being so used to being able to do so much on their own, they don't know how to work with other people? Or ask for help at the things that they're maybe not that strong at. I don't know that he's a great collaborator because…since Make It Right, it's basically just been him doing his own thing. And I would really just like to see New either as a producer guiding a team, or working with people that he saw at his level, and being forced to cooperate with them more.

Because you're correct, like, he starts strong but he doesn't finish strong. And that's what we'd love to see from his work for once. We usually love his work on the front end of some of the big ideas that are being constructed. Then we get to the back end and we're like oh my god what the hell is going on here? Episodic structure is incredibly important. Individual episodes have their own internal arcs that make those episodes distinct in the overall narrative. And A Boss and a Babe has none of that. Cannot tell you what happened on A Boss and a Babe episode by episode. One of the things that Nini and I are usually pretty good at is highlighting specific moments where they fit in the story. Nini tends to remember them by episode exactly. And we just don't have that with A Boss and a Babe, at all, like…we could not tell you when moments in this show happened.

Nini

One of the things that came up in the clown server when we were yelling at each other about the show is how…disarranged it feels? Even the things that we're mad about, like we’ve come to the conclusion that you could have kept all of the elements in the particular plotline—if you had just arranged them differently, the whole thing works better?

Where things happen in the narrative is equally as important, maybe more important than what happens in the narrative. And part of the problem is that where things happen in the narrative is just screwed, and that's a storyboarding issue. In the pre-production phase, and in the post-production phase, I would love for there to be somebody sitting next to New who just says ‘no.’ Somebody who can just overrule him [laughs] on certain things about structure and organization? Because I think structure and organization are his real weaknesses in terms of his filmmaking. I don't think he lacks for ideas. I don't think he's untalented at the actual process of production? His shows always look good, they always sound good, the camera work, the scene work, it's always good. But the story's just…eugh! Need somebody to just yank them together. I would love to just recut this entire show.

Ben

The biggest thing for me is like, Jack needs to be the mole. And he and Thyme need to have been exes. Because the problem is, in a show about workplace romance, the side couple is used for gay things, not workplace things. Like Three and Zo are lovely, and I think Fluke and new baby Ohm are cute and have a good time, but they only work well for the romance between Gun and Cher. They don't really work well for the…questionable romance of doing something at work. And that's the part that's been really frustrating.

The show is particularly irritating because…it's not great? I don't know that it's like, bad. Like, we've had worse shows.

Nini

I don't think it's a bad show.

Ben

But like, this show brought out some real frustration with me with fandom itself, in a way that I usually ignore, but I found myself super duper irritated about along the way. Some of the things I get frustrated about is people using the tools of criticism inappropriately, just to say they don't like something. Like you don't have to pathologize not liking something, rather than just saying it's not for you. Like, this show’s kind of a goofy mess, and…the character work is solid, but it never seems to be working with whatever the plotting is going on. There’s an easy way to say yeah, this show's just not that great.

But the problem that happened for me with this show was, one of the big ideas in the show that they tried to hold on to for at least the first 3 or 4 episodes, was that people are going to perceive you a certain way, regardless of what you do or say. Like as soon as they look at you and go ‘you're gay,’ they're going to start using slurs for you in their head, and it doesn't matter…what you do or say at that point. They've decided who you are. There was a great moment in like the first episode where Cher cuts down these catty girls at work for being homophobic about Gun. And there's the whole notion about the way Cher’s village is wrong about him.

And it was frustrating for me in a show that's being very loud about how people are not who we see them as in the brief bits we get about them—a fairly adult thing to maybe look at? And it was super frustrating to see the characters in the show just get reduced to like, ‘if Gun's a grumpy mean boss, why do we never see it?’ Like that's maybe the point. Maybe he's not a grumpy mean boss, and people are misunderstanding him and reading into minor interactions with him way too hard. And the same thing with Cher. Like, ‘why is Cher perfect?’ He's not perfect. He just doesn't acknowledge his own failure, and doesn't care about when he fails. It was genuinely really upsetting to see this done to, like explicitly queer characters?

Because for me, it begs the question of: when do you love gay people? Do you only love us when we're funny? When we're bright, shiny and chrome? When we're entertaining? When we're sexy? What if we're not in a good mood, and we don't want to be sunshine for you today? And it feels like a lot of that got leveled against Gun’s character in a way that I personally took offense with. He wasn't an ideal gay, and so we have to dislike him, or pick apart his characterization—and it was the same for Cher. That he got stunted, in his sexuality, by everything that went wrong with Tian—which I think should have been like pulled out way sooner—and so he's discovering his queerness slowly and not really wanting to take a huge leap on that.

I just feel like both of these characters were not given a lot of grace. It's not the first time I feel like fandom has really struggled with complicated gay characters. And it's becoming a sticking point for me and is making me kind of sore, in some of the interactions we have around here.

Nini

I too am always annoyed by misuse of the tools of critique and criticism, because I am a person for whom words mean things? [laughs] And so, when you say things like ‘the writing's bad.’ I'm like okay well, you're saying that the writing's bad. So like tell me, okay, what are the markers of bad? Is it inconsistent? Show me where it's inconsistent. Is it this thing? Show me where it's this thing.

I can always accept, ‘yeah I just didn't like it.’ I mean I'm not saying I'm not going to judge you, [laughs] but I can accept ‘I just didn't like it, wasn't for me.’ Okay fine! I cannot accept, ‘because I didn't like it, it must be bad.’ I do not like that, I've never liked that, because to me it just feels intellectually dishonest? It feels intellectually dishonest to look at something that perhaps you don't like, or more often that you don't understand, and to say ‘because I don't like it, it must be bad.’ We don't really talk a lot about fandom on this show, but I think, around A Boss and a Babe, like, it got to me?

I'm an adult, people's opinions are their opinions, I try not to let people's opinions piss me off, but I got quite pissed off. [laughs]

Ben

Generally I think people are allowed to be wrong on the internet. And I usually try to just be like, whatever, someone's just being wrong on the internet. It was frustrating for me this time because, there are messy parts of this show, but one of the clear ideas is that Gun is a gay man and the world has made him feel lonely. And it was so upsetting to see fandom be just so mean to him. I don't usually be like, ‘oh no leave my blorbo alone,’ like, I'm rarely that person. This is like, the first time that's really happening to me, I was like, ‘why are we being so harsh to a character who's just enamored with the manic pixie dream boy who thinks he's a little too severe and is determined to make sure he has a good day?’ When’s the last time someone cared if Gun had a good day?

The takes felt really unkind. And I did not like that at all. Is this how you feel about the rest of us? I don't get to interact with a lot of other boys in fandom all the time, but goddamn y'all! Is this how you feel about gay people? Shit!

Nini

It felt reductive, and I don't like taking a character where the complexity is there, and reducing that character to some kind of archetype in your head, because this is what you feel like you were promised.

Ben

The show makes a whole point about how people are gonna actively misperceive you. And like, we were so close to getting it. They're like, ‘the show keeps saying that he's a mean bad boss but I don't see it’ and I'm like ‘you're so close, come on. Come on! You got this.’

[both laugh]

Nini

I think that there's one choice that was made that, if that choice had gone differently, I think it would have rammed home the theme better? And that would have been, if they had actually followed through on the Thyme thing. Because the thing that was coming through to me in the writing, and I think you and I talked about this—Thyme felt righteous, which made us think that we're going to see that he was also being misperceived? And that just sort of fell away.

Ben

That's another real disappointment. It's why like I gave the show a 7. Like it's very watchable, and I think the characters are amusing enough, and the work is fine, but like—not completing the Thyme storyline, losing the thread about how perception impacts you—and like you said, like, we had a team of gamers and a gaming company. And not a single crossover really felt like it happened between that? Feels like a huge missed opportunity.

Nini

I think it was episode 8 or 9 when I think things started to go off the rails.

Ben

It was when they had like the whole, like, Cher’s not talking to me, I'm gonna go talk to him right now. I'm like ‘oh I like that,’ and then he pulls Cher into the bathroom and they have a reconciliation, and then they get outed and they're like ‘oh no, new problem!’ and then like, ‘my mom is here now, she solved it!’ Wait: what? How? Who did she kill? [laughs]

And then…and [laughs] and then they're like ‘okay so I guess we're done with that, all right, I'm going to break up with him now.’ Wait—wait a minute!

Nini

Around episode 9 is when the shit started, basically. But up until then, I felt like I had a clear sense of the narrative, I felt like I understood what the show wanted to say, I felt like the directions they were going in made sense. And I feel almost like the rug got pulled at that point. There's still stuff in those later episodes, mostly the stuff between Gun and Cher—when it's not being yanked around for narrative purposes—there's still stuff in there that feels really legit and emotionally honest. Like in the later episodes, I think 10, 11, and 12, Gun and Cher’s, like, physical and emotional relationship?

Aside from all the, like I said, narrative yanking around, it felt really grounded, really solid, like every time I saw them in a scene together I felt connected to it. And I understood where it was going. And then in between those, like all kinds of weird decisions got made.

[both laugh]

Ben

Speaking of like, good scenes with Cher and Gun. The scene that I think I liked the most from them—was again like, when we talk about New is good at a scene, like this is a scene he's been wanting to do for a long time—it was Cher taking initiative in bed, where they have like married sex?

Nini

That was such a good scene.

Ben

And there was a really great delivery of—what's the line? It's like, ‘Is it okay if I start it?’

Nini

Gun is like, “You're starting it?” and Cher is like “Can I?”

Ben

Yes! And like, that was such a layered line. It was…really fascinating, to see them negotiating what sex was going to mean for them. And there's a great delivery later, where Gun in his afterglow is being especially affectionate with Cher, and Cher’s like ‘you always say that whenever we're doing it’ and he's like ‘and I mean it when we're not doing it too.’

And that's again, a line that I really loved, of New trying to hammer home that—like sex as intimacy does not mean that it's only about that particular component. He's got a lot of deep ideas about the way gay sex is perceived, and how that impacts the real intimacy going on in people's lived relationships, that I was like, ‘I'm really into this’ but as always with New, like I'm really into the ideas he has about being a gay man, because he and I are about the same age. So like, everything he's thinking about I'm also thinking about.

Nini

The way that New interprets sex and intimacy—he uses sex within intimacy, not intimacy within sex? Watching Gun and Cher be physically intimate. It's not hot? But it feels very loving. It feels very married, it feels very settled, it feels very much like coming home in a way? It feels like the characters are really having a great time. Even though, I'm not in that great time exactly with them, if you know what I mean? Like I look at it like, ‘awww!’ I look on fondly. It's like, y'all really love each other and y'all are having so much fun. But it's not hot.

Aside from like the lived-in-ness and the lovingness of the intimacy between Gun and Cher, one of the things I really enjoy is just looking at Cher’s journey with his sexuality and with his comfort with physical intimacy. Because he does go along a journey that I think is very well depicted in the show. The first time they kiss it's incredibly awkward, because nobody intended to kiss anybody. It just kind of became like a dare, and a dare, and a dare, and then they did it and then he was just like ‘oh! do I…like this?’ And then the next time you see them be intimate in any way he's like ‘I think I like this.’ And then the next time there is a sense of, ‘I definitely like this’ and the last time you see them it's like, ‘yeah, gimme that body.’ It's a very interesting way to map the progression of Cher's comfort in himself, and also the progression of time. Because that's another problem I have with this show, is that I cannot measure the passage of time in any way in the show. It's horrendous.

Ben

Gun is being really patient in a way that I thought was really endearing, like you could feel the gay age gap there. They're not that different in age, but Gun has known himself longer, and you can see him giving Cher the time and space he needs to sort where he falls out on this. Like there's that moment when he kisses Cher in bed—he asks if he can kiss Cher and they kiss—and he asks if he can do more. And that is really sweet; there's a balancing line there. Guns like ‘I'm not a sexless dude, there's a lot of things I want to do with you, but I'm excited to see what you want to do too.’ And I just really liked the way that unfolds.

Like sometimes when they do sexual awakening in movies and shit, they put a lot of emphasis on that single encounter, and this becomes like this huge movement for them. I like that Cher needed to try gay intimacy multiple times to sort himself out. Because it was also his first encounter period, so he's also working through, what does sex feel like for him? And I wish we'd have spent more time on that.

Nini

I feel like I am good with what we got, because I feel like it got the point across? Yes, more would have been good, but I don't feel like I was missing anything.

Ben

I get you.

Nini

I feel like I understood where they were going with that and it landed well. I understood the point of it, I felt the progression, and I enjoyed it. I also like the way that Gun played it as well. In the early episodes one of the things that I really like, is that Gun gives Cher this space to unpack all the feelings that he had about Tian. He not only listens, but he also offers Cher the comfort of saying, ‘you loved her, she loved you, you were good for her.’

So much of BL there's that idea that, when you find your great love, none of your other loves mattered. And one of the things I really like about this show is that it says well no, your other loves did matter, they do matter. Not because they ended, did they cease to matter or never really mattered. They mattered to you, they shaped you, they were important to you. And I like that, not only that the show invests in that idea, but that the characters invest in that idea as well.

Ben

I liked early on that Gun was explicitly touch-repulsed.

Nini

I don't think he was! I think he said that, but I—again, one of those things. I don't think he actually was.

Ben

But like, it's a gay thing. He actually does enjoy touching quite a bit, but impacted by homophobia where you have to pass. And so you don't want people touching you, particularly boys. It never ends well. You end up touch-starved as a result, because you never touch anyone. But you tell people you don't want to be touched, because it prevents you from having uncomfortable moments with people that you just don't feel like managing.

That's probably when I first fell in love with Gun. Because I was like oh, baby boy, come on now. [laughs]

Nini

I fell in love with Cher from the beginning. He is so fierce, from the beginning, about saying to Gun: ‘I am not repulsed by you. I care about you.’ This is somebody that he doesn't really know. The kindness in the way that Cher lives his life—because everybody has been so unkind to him—the radical kindness that he's expending in his life. He's reaching out to the CEO of his company just because he seems sad, and he's like ‘you don't have to be sad with me, it's okay, I like you, even if nobody else does.’ There's something about that that really touches some of the deepest parts of me. I had a very visceral, very emotional reaction to that, and that's when I like really fell in love with Cher.

Ben

It's really frustrating with this show, because there is some really interesting stuff established on the front end. I'm like ‘really excited to see where some of this goes!’ and it didn't go anywhere that we thought was really enjoyable or cogent. And there were a lot of messy bits. But man like, Cher and Gun, Three and Zo, Tub, Jack, Oi…even Thyme, and Porsche? There were really, really great established characters.

Like we've talked on this podcast before about how, when a show ends I can't remember the name of the leads. But I have a strong recall of the names of these characters, because I think they had really distinct voices that I thought played well with each other. That is a strong point about this show.

The big thing that I think is a big part of the discussion now: A Boss and a Babe kind of used their workplace setting as backdrop, not really as a dramatic tool for generating scenarios for drama? What do we actually want from workplace BL?

1:26:09 - Cheewin vs. New

Nini

All right, Ben, so now we've talked about Bed Friend, and we've talked about A Boss and a Babe and we had a lot to say about New when we talked about A Boss and a Babe, but we didn't talk so much about Cheewin when we were talking about Bed Friend.

So let's give the people a little insight into Cheewin. How would you describe Cheewin's work?

Ben

Man…[sighs] Like I keep getting caught up in how Cheewin and New very much have really strong feelings about the same stuff. I think Cheewin leans more into being like, a chaos gay than New does? Cheewin also seems to care a lot about including femmes. He loves his femmes. And he seems to enjoy comedy I think, a lot more than New does. New really loves big cry your heart out dramas. That's probably the biggest divergence that I've noticed with them.

Like I think Bed Friend's a little bit different for me with Cheewin, because it's far more s—like, seriously toned than I'm used to seeing him stick with the whole time? He doesn't undercut any of his dramatic tension with a lot of goofy comedy.

Nini

I don't know necessarily that you could say that he doesn't, because I think some of the parts of Bed Friend that we noted sort of stuck out like a sore thumb were when Cheewin tried to do comedy. Cheewin seems to tend more towards a comedic bent; New loves a sad gay. [Ben laughs]

The other direction I think in which they've diverged has been in terms of their approaches to…sex and heat? Cheewin's work is very high heat stuff, most of the time, and New is the exact opposite. The way that New uses sex is very different from the way that Cheewin uses sex to tell stories.

Ben

I would agree, I think New is a little bit more precious about it than Cheewin is? [laughs] To put it mildly. But I think Cheewin…uses sex really well in the work. Like it's fascinating just seeing the two of them after all of these years, like I was not expecting both of them to release workplace set shows in the same year, so that we could sit here and compare them?

I think in both cases, like you can see some of the things that they both fall into, like—I don't necessarily know that they both cared about their workplace the whole time? Like, the workplace served as a starting point to tell a bunch of their stuff. But then it becomes about the other stuff, and the workplace stuff falls away. Other than the plotline with the manager with Uea, the workplace of Bed Friend mostly serves as an impetus to make the characters interact in public, in front of other people. And we talked at length about how A Boss and a Babe does not necessarily maximize the potential of its workplace setting.

Nini

I would argue that both shows cared to some extent about their workplace setting, because there were plot lines that happened that could have only happened in the workplace setting. But Cheewin’s show focuses on peers, co-workers. Same age, same level of responsibility, nobody's above another. Whereas, I don't feel like New necessarily wanted to explore a power dynamic, because he demolishes any power dynamic between Cher and Gun fairly quickly. I don't really have a sense of why New went for the boss/employee.

Ben

I think New wanted a reason for them to be a bit careful about how they handled those sort of things? But I gotta be honest, in terms of doing workplace storytelling, I kind of like when there isn't like a huge gap separating the people from each other? And so we can focus more on why these two particular people either like or don't like each other right out of the gate? I thought that that was a lot more interesting to play with, like I liked that Uea was resistant to King because he thought King was unreliable and a player.

Nini

There's so much to compare in terms of the stories, and granted these are both adaptations from novels, so these are not original stories. But there have been some changes made to the novels’ stories by these auteurs. And I look to the changes to see where the auteurs might have wanted to say certain things, or what parts of the story they bring to the surface, versus the parts of the story that they leave in the background or they jettison.

It’s really interesting for me that Bed Friend is a more or less faithful retelling of the Bed Friend story. There are one or two changes, but Bed Friend more or less is a largely faithful adaptation of its novel. I have not read the Boss and a Babe novel, but from what I gather, more changes were made to that than Cheewin made to Bed Friend.

Ben

I think because Cheewin was dealing with a story about a survivor, he may have felt more of a sense of duty to not making too many changes to that? To not undercut or erase what the original character went through.

Nini

That makes a lot of sense.

Overall, I just find it so fascinating — these two guys worked together on Love Sick and Make it Right, then went in completely different directions. And I kind of want to see what they do next, if they're going to find themselves somehow aligning again, or if they're going to now completely diverge.

Ben

It's really fascinating just thinking about these two, because they start off in the school room where a lot of early BL is, and now both of them are very much pushing their work beyond those settings. Like you can feel them growing up inside of their work as well.

Both of these guys are very good, working on the drama within the romance. Like these guys still have incredibly potent ideas about how the formative experiences that queer men go through have lasting impacts on them. And that's been fascinating to see them continuing to do even as they get older. Like neither of those guys have lost that, and that continues to be the things that I notice the most in their work.

Nini

That is going to wrap us up on Work, Bitch! Our workplace romance episode. All right! We out. Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace!

#bed friend #a boss and a babe #lgbtq #podcast #thai bl #the conversation #ben and nini's conversations #on art #season 3 #summer 2023 #summer series #new siwaj #cheewin tanamin #Spotify

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