#McLennon brothers

[menlove]

inspired by @erinarigby's post about paul's very obvious type......... john isn't subtle either 💀

[saywhatyouwillbut]

i love all of you wonderful aftg creators making social media aus and in-universe memes, choosing to completely ignore the fact that exy rpf would 100% exist

[undying-love]

"Call it what you will, a razor-sharp rivalry or a professional lust for supremacy, electricity almost visibly crackled between the pair. John and Paul were very much like brothers, they often shared the same hotel rooms, not only in the early days when the group was too poor to afford suites but even later on when we were touring the world and staying in five-star places. They changed around; it wasn't always Paul sharing with John..." “I still think at the back of John’s mind was this fascination of wanting to get back with the first girlfriend, if you like, and that was to get back with Paul, who he had so much history with.” -Tony Barrow

[franklyimissparis]

I’m a straight guy and let me tell you, there is no way in hell that I would ever act around my friends or friend the way John and Paul act around each other. They were so clearly inside each other it’s insane that most mainstream people or journalists don’t see that

right?? i feel like the narratives are slowly changing (as we saw a bit with the reporting on now & then) and i do think once paul dies people will probably be more open about speculating. but truly it’s wild how dismissive people are about it when the more you learn about them, the more you HAVE to question it really - they were insane! straight men (especially in britain) may take the piss in that way about mates sometimes but err not THAT much 😭 really, i think you only need to look at john and paul post-break up and see the deep level of hurt and love there to realise that it went so much deeper.

[obrother1976]

sometimes when the incest isnt there u simply have to invent it and girl im thomas edison.

[speedwayy]

they might have been lovers, but lovers do not sleep

as close as this

[javelinbk]

The worst (best?) part of being hyper fixated on a fandom is that phase when you can’t hear a song without somehow thinking of your otp.

Anyway, Hurricane Drunk is about John getting drunk and jealous in Hamburg

[factcheckingmclennon]

pyramus & thisbe, the cats: fact or fiction?

starting this blog off on a positive note because when i deep dived & found out this was real i was floored because it does genuinely sound like fanfiction but...

"did paul mccartney really have cats named pyramus & thisbe after the lovers him and john played?"

and let's go to a read more for the source/deep dive!

so this is one that floats around a lot un-sourced. in fact, when doing this deep dive, i found quite a few fan forums INSISTING it was fake because they only ever see mclennon shippers saying it. but lo and behold........

in this interview from Animals' Agenda, 1999:

P: Oh, I’d love to tell you about the animals. I personally never had a pet growing up, because my mom and dad both worked. And even the day we saw free puppies going and my brother and I thought, “Definite, we’ll get one,” we couldn’t have one. So my first pet was when I was living alone as one of the Beatles and I got an Old English sheepdog called Martha, and I loved her dearly, she was beautiful, she was really good for me; we were good for each other. I remember John Lennon coming ’round and saying, “God, I’ve never seen you with an animal before.” I was being so affectionate it took him aback, he’d not seen that side of my character. Because you don’t do that with humans-not as obviously anyway. And then I had two cats called Pyramus and Thisbe, which showed my literate bent, and then I had three-they all had to be cool names, of course-that were called Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. And then as a family, Linda and I, after Martha died, we then got another Old English sheepdog and we eventually had a litter by the one after her. We kept two of the puppies, so that meant we’ve got three now. I have four dogs at home, three English sheepdogs and Stella’s dog, the mutt. She’d hate me to say that!

(source)

now... did he gift john pyramus?

i can't find a source on that one that isn't a mclennon blog/forum. however there's just not enough to prove it one way or the other & it's not out of the realm of possibility that he would've given pyramus to john, especially since there don't seem to be any photos of paul & pyramus even though he mentions the cat as one that he owned. also, i do feel like i've seen some quote from john where he just casually mentions the cat by name floating around? but i can't find it, so if anyone wants to add it, go ahead! for now, that part of this is getting rated....

[randomboxes]

Curious to know what people think specifically. Read carefully! lol

[sgtpeppers]

New fic!!! Did someone ask for a (sort of) Beauty and the Beast Mclennon AU? No??? Too bad. I've had the dynamic between them in this in my head for a while and this was a good excuse to get it out.

When Jim McCartney's gambling debts got out of control, Paul started working himself to the bone to help fix the situation. Then an offer arrives from the man Jim's indebted to; if Paul goes and lives with him, the money will be forgotten. Paul says yes for the sake of his brother, but he doesn't expect to be whisked off to a luxurious mansion or the devastatingly handsome owner who comes with it. This is (vaguely) Beauty and the Beast, Mclennon style.

Also go check out @oneflydude's Paul as Belle from Beauty and the Beast because it's lovely and one of the inspirations behind this!

[paulmccartneyprostateorgasm]

Well, I think that actually George didn't mind being the third wheel or the whiteness of his friends'relationships. The problem is that, the more toxic mclennon became, the more those two starting projecting their issues into George and treating him like trash while expecting him to always play the little brother role at the same time.

Paul in particular seems to have taken his perfectionism and control freakiness onto George since early on and was suddenly surprised with George's low self esteem and resentment. John later used that resentment to hurt Paul before discarding George and was later angry that George 'excluded' him of his book.

John and Paul constantly doubted each other love/need/respect but also took George's love/patient for granted until their relationship with him was broken.

I genuinely believe that George would have been their biggest defender if mclennon had figured themselves out. He would try to sleep with one of them if they were married though, but that would be George being George.

There was just too much stuff going on between those 3.

Yeah the three of them have such an interesting dynamic. I was reading this and nodding and going mhm mhm sure mhm yeah true mhm etc. until I got to the part about how george would try to cuckold them if they got married and I was hit so hard by the force of how true that was I had to put my phone down for a minute. But yeah anyway they're all crazy george deserved better happy for him that he got to do his gay old man polycule band

[menlove]

roughly 9693 days have passed and scholars are still trying to figure out what paul mccartney meant when he said "in bed" when asked how he'd spend the day with john lennon if he came back to life for one day

[bambi-kinos]

After reading your view on John's treatment of Paul, I have to ask if you also have thougts on what happend between George and Paul during and after post Beatles. We know how they both treated him as the younger brother and how he tought they were to busy being John and Paul so they failed to see him though other artist saw him etc. We can also understand how he back away from John and Yoko. But what was his problems with Paul? Paul played on more George-Beatle songs than John did and George even played on John's solo record but said he would never play in a band with Paul again. Because there still seem to that he had another issue with Paul and there still seem to be tensions between them during the Anthology. Did Paul really deserved to be treated like that by both John and George. George went on a lot about his faith and spiritual seaching but not really lived up to it all the time. He played a lot about how unhappy he was in the Beatles and being famous buthe lived large with his cars and big house etc. I'm not defending Paul, well I do, but they both treated him so badly. Why, do you have any more ideas about that. Or what other artists, like ex Wings members etc who also complained about Paul's ways. I only ever see it as jealousy.

Legit had no idea how to answer this as George's dynamic with the rest of the band is opaque to me. I put the question to the McLennon server and they provided some very good answers, they have given me permission to copypaste it all here. I hope this helps Anon.

Note: I let the others talk and then I used Discord's "reply" function liberally to @ the different paragraphs. For tumblr I have rearranged the posts so that they read in order as full conversations instead of the weird mishmash that Discord produces. When you see weird timestamps, that is why.

***

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 11:00 AM received an interesting ask from an anon, its very long so i'm just copy pasting

ask

What do we think of this? my take is basically that George resented Paul because he replaced George with John and their relationship never recovered, which snowballed into these bigger issues about George's contributions to the Beatles and his growth as an artist.

I think it was amoralto who pointed out that Paul was safer for George to attack because Paul would forgive him whereas with John that wasn't the case. and yet George was able to cut John off later so what gives?

LocalGoblin — Yesterday at 1:43 PM I think there's a lot to this dynamic that we're not privvy too. What we do know, however, are things like how during the white album sessions, Paul was constantly undermining George's suggestions. I think it was George Martin who said that. We can even see it a bit in Get Back.

On top of that, even to this day, Paul calls George his little brother in interviews. He has always viewed George as the little kid of the group and that would feel incredibly patronising and demoralising. Paul is a lot more wired that John, and I think that personality trait is just something that George stuggles with. John is the 'cool/fun parent'.

I know John also viewed George as the little kid. And I think this hurt George less because 1. John WAS that older kid/parental figure for so long. 2. You can't take what John was as seriously because he changes his mind day-to-day. 3. I think George honestly (probably) secretly respected Paul's opinion more. So Paul's remarks hurt more.

John = The deadbeat Disney dad. Paul = The more serious and caring/overbearing parent You can see how he would grow to resent Paul more. And I think he also blamed Paul for the breakup too. Or at least, how messy all of that was and all the horrible legal issues that came with it

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 2:06 PM this one hurts. oof. when I read about the break up in excerpts I get the feeling that George thought Paul's problem was the money and the business decisions and he didn't consider (or didn't want to consider) what was driving it emotionally….after all he felt like Paul didn't consider his feelings 😬

LocalGoblin — Yesterday at 1:52 PM Anthology is interesting though. I really think George's attitude in that it partly because he needed to do it. He needed the money. I don't think he really wanted to do it. It was Paul's baby, and he also resented him for that. Hated Paul for being more comfortable financially too. Paul didn't need to do anthology. George did.

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 1:53 PM genius, you're absolutely right

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 2:08 PM this was also around the time that Paul's sweet new deal with Capitol became a thing, i think, because Capitol offered like a significant profit increase for Paul on Beatles royalties if he signed his next few solo albums with them. That caused a lot of upset with George and Ringo iirc, so damn :(

LocalGoblin — Yesterday at 1:55 PM (Also, Paul in a few interviews, has said that he was on good terms with John when he died - UNLIKE George. Almost rubbing it in George's face. I know he doesn't mean it. But I would be incredibly upset by that in George's position. To be constantly reminded of that.)

I think its funny that Paul is viewed as the PR savvy Beatles cause he puts his foot in his mouth all the time haha That actually might be why he's more reserved in interviews now. Sticking to a script… Who knows!

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 2:19 PM Ha, god, probably. Paul has his moments, there's a good 80s interview where he bemoaned Frank Sinatra attributing a George song to maccalennon, but he doesn't seem to have been humbled until the Heather Mills circus.

vanessaaa0388 — Yesterday at 1:57 PM In one of the AKOM podcasts they mentioned a George quote about how he was the closest beatle to John back when it was only them 2 taking LSD… it's my personal theory than in those months he almost felt like he was finally taking over Paul's spot in John's life…I dunno, I get very competitive vibes from George. In his mind he was competing for John with Paul. At least in certain points. And I think John took advantage of that.

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 2:20 PM Absolutely. Reminds me of, ha, Paul when he said that John was their personal Elvis. They all wanted his attention and approval. I also wonder if George was seeking a mentor somewhere and if he thought John was it since they dropped together.

vanessaaa0388 — Yesterday at 2:01 PM It's very complex, the Paul-George dynamic

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 2:02 PM Paul is the one who's always looking for a "project" and can't turn off, being with him must have been exhausting and then you add being talked down to all the time. whereas John can be fun and turn himself off and then maybe the sting of being talked down to isn't so bad. And like we saw in Get Back when John said "we need George Harrison" because he realized George was looking for reassurance, so he could also build George up when he felt like he should.

I guess with John its more like "lots of fun with a few pointed barbs thrown in" whereas with Paul he's steamrollering you constantly and will only occasionally throw in a compliment.

maybe since Paul is more consistent, it meant more to earn his respect? or something like that, like Vanessa pointed out George was competitive for John's approval and attention.

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 2:12 PM there's this consistent theme with George and Paul where Paul's closeness with John seems to really hurt and damage George. And its not like he could let it go easily either because Paul was also his teammate, not just John's. It was a quad act, not a double.

I think George said that being outside Lennon/Mccartney meant observing Beatlemania as a fan instead of as a bandmate. So he's getting all the trouble but very few of the benefits. And then there's the royalty issues on top of that.

Like, Paul was George's friend first, but then Paul pulped that friendship pretty much immediately when he saw John and never felt like he should do anything to fix it. And then George gets pulled into Beatlemania and then there's money problems and then Brian died.

Brian was George's big advocate I noticed, setting up a newspaper column in George's name (ghostwritten by someone else) because he wanted George to be his own brand outside the Beatles and maccalennon, so when he died a lot of that probably went down the drain too.

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 2:23 PM George seems to have been very lonely in the Beatles but due to all this:

I know John also viewed George as the little kid. And I think this hurt George less because 1. John WAS that older kid/parental figure for so long. 2. You can't take what John was as seriously because he changes his mind day-to-day. 3. I think George honestly (probably) secretly respected Paul's opinion more. So Paul's remarks hurt more.

I guess it was easier to shift some blame onto Paul. A lot of George's spiritual journey appears to be about wanting to escape like when he sings about wanting to see God but being frustrated at how long it will take him. Its real but it also seems like he was pretty weary of life by his mid20s.

LocalGoblin — Yesterday at 2:40 PM Yeah, you're so right. John was also the other Beatle who was more spiritually inclined. He was the only one besides George who was fully committed to the India trip. (At least for a time.) This was probably something they bonded over too.

There's also that quote… I can't remember what interview it's from. But George was asked what it was like being a Beatle and he says he doesn't really know. He always felt like he was on the outside looking in on Lennon/McCartney. It must've felt like a very lonely place.

vanessaaa0388 — Yesterday at 2:40 PM I'm fascinated by J&P but I give George a lot of credit for putting up with them both for so long. I would've cut them out of my life so fast 😂

Leggy「IT'S A GUNDAM 」 — Yesterday at 4:05 PM honestly they ruined George's life in some ways!

[buttahpie]

what are THE mclennon fanfics? i just finished reading “brother dearest” by @javelinbk (loved it btw) and i am in desperate search of more good mclennon fics. im still so new to the fandom like what are we making fanart and memes about what is the holy grail??

[idontwanttospoiltheparty]

What's ur top five for the mclennon evidence tier

Depends from whose perspective, so I'm dividing them up

(and I feel this demonstrates why I have very different opinions on who had feelings for whom; if someone disagrees they're welcome to argue with me [I like that lol] but it really comes down to what type of evidence I find more convincing)

John

1. His Widow Literally Saying It? You know, THE quote:

From chance remarks he had made, she [Yoko] gathered there had even been a moment when—on the principle that bohemians should try everything— he had contemplated an affair with Paul, but had been deterred by Paul’s immovable heterosexuality. Nor, apparently, was Yoko the only one to have picked up on this. Around Apple, in her hearing, Paul would sometimes be called John’s Princess. She had also once heard a rehearsal tape with John’s voice calling out “Paul … Paul …” in a strangely subservient, pleading way. “I knew there was something going on there,” she remembers. “From his point of view, not from Paul’s. And he was so angry at Paul, I couldn’t help wondering what it was really about.”

2. 1972 Sandra Shevey interview:

I wanna be clear like. THIS is BY FAR the best evidence. I will list more, but nothing else really comes close to the above quote. There is zero interpretation needed (or room to take it as a joke) and it's coming from about as close a source to John as possible.

The only thing ever lacking in working with another artist and they were usually male - whether it was Stuart Sutcliffe (my art school friend) or Paul McCartney (my musical friend) - is that the relationship only goes as far as the front door and after that you are alone in bed. It's a plus not a minus. The plus is that your best friend, also, can hold you without… I mean, I’m not a homosexual, or we could have had a homosexual relationship and maybe that would have satisfied it, with working with other male artists. [faltering] An artist – it’s more – it’s much better to be working with another artist of the same energy, and that’s why there’s always been Beatles or Marx Brothers or men, together. Because it’s alright for them to work together or whatever it is. It’s the same except that we sleep together, you know? I mean, not counting love and all the things on the side, just as a working relationship with her, it has all the benefits of working with another male artist and all the joint inspiration, and then we can hold hands too, right?

3. David Sheff insanity feat. Yoko:

JOHN: Well, that’s rubbish, you know. Because nobody controls me. I’m uncontrollable. The only one that can control me is me, and that’s just barely possible. [Yoko laughs] But that’s what life is about. And that’s the lesson I’m learning. Because – nobody ever said anything about Paul having a spell over me, when I was with him for a long time. Or me having a spell over Paul. They didn’t think that was abnormal, two guys together. JOHN: Or four guys together. In those days? Why didn’t anybody ever say, “How come those guys don’t split up? I mean, what’s going on backstage? I mean, what is that Paul and John business? Why – you know, how can they be together so long?” YOKO: They might have. [laughs]

These next ones are again a tier below. The above three are eyebrow-raising independent of each other, but the below two sort of require the above three to feel like they've got argumentative weight IMO.

4. "It's just handy to fuck your best friend."

5. 1974 self-interview.

The last one is a good example of what I meant here. The self-interview could be much more easily dismissed as a joke if the above points didn't also exist.

Stuff like John marrying Yoko immediately after Paul married Linda is interesting when considering John having feelings for Paul, but I don't think it would constitute evidence in isolation. I think it's important to differentiate events which take on a very specific meaning when you make a (perhaps reasonable) presupposition from things which directly imply said presupposition. I also find the fact that there's an incredibly strong case for John experiencing attraction to men who are not Paul – while not evidence for McLennon per se – significantly increases the likelihood that the above quotes are pointing to real feelings for Paul.

(also notice how none of these are song lyrics lol – songs would almost always fall under that idea of something which might take on a connotation, given biographical context, but can almost never be seen as evidence of something on their own)

Paul

1. That "Maybe if I had been a woman I could have–" quote. I don't have the exact phrasing handy, but you know the one.

2. Generally how defensive Paul has historically been about John's sexuality. This is completely circumstantial, but I agree it's a reasonable reading of Paul's behaviour.

The above two points are by far the biggest arguments for Paul IMO though they are notably not as directly linked to the idea of Paul having feelings for John as my John quotes were (which doesn't mean Paul being in love with John is impossible, of course).

The next stuff doesn't really convince me at all but I still think it's the best:

3. His general reaction to JohnandYoko*

4. Paul going off about John's looks a lot.**

5. I guess lyrics lol. Dear Friend and However Absurd are probably the best ones. Honourable mention to the "I find my love awake" verse of Too Many People.

*I'm actually a fierce believer in the concept that a) JohnandYoko were not a normal couple so this isn't just a simple case of being upset at your bestie getting a partner and it's imo willingly obtuse to act like that's what was happening and b) even then, platonic jealousy is not unheard of. But I certainly recognize that it could be a sexually-driven jealousy.

**Gay men and straight women will fawn over women's looks and talk in much more sexually charged language than Paul about John. Sure, "it's different for straight men", which is why I'll grant it, but just something to think about as well.

The Paul stuff looks a bit half-hearted – because it is, but I did spend a lot of time trying to think of stuff. If you can think of something you personally find more convincing than any of these points, feel free to send it over and I'll tell you how I would "rank it" and why. It's possible I'm forgetting something that deserves to be up there.

Last point, but I actually think it's really important to be able to more or less rank evidence of one's own beliefs. And of beliefs one doesn't hold.

[whenyourbirdisbroken]

Saw your mclennon day post - do you know any good fics that cover that day?

Hi! Here is a list of fics that cover the day John and Paul met in some way! Most of these are AUs of some kind but include a version of McLennon day (like in Brother Dearest they've already met through their parents but we still get to experience the fete, and actually the Jumper it's just John thinking about that day during a Wings concert) and most importantly, all great fics! Happy McLennon Day!

(I’ve Still Got) You All Over Me by @muzaktomyears

Have Courage and Follow Me, My Dear by aceonthebass

Brother Dearest by @javelinbk

Arrow Through Me by @inspiteallthedanger

I Need You Darlin' (So Come Go With Me) by @beatlessideblog

The Jumper by @merseydreams