#Sam meta

[creatorofarcadia]

It's been a while since I watched Supernatural, so don't take my opinions as gospel or anything. But I think Dean is self-hating to the point of narcissism in some ways. Don't get me wrong, I empathise with Dean and understand why fans largely do too. But his self-loathing warps his perception and becomes the centre of EVERYTHING and at times that really has ripple effects on those around him - particularly Sam.

Take their childhood, Sam has a right to mourn the fact that he didn't get a normal childhood. He's allowed to be angry that he didn't get a home, a present father, a stable community, and consistent education. But whenever Sam attempts to express his complicated feelings about his childhood, Dean immediately interprets it as ' oh I was supposed to look out for you. Are you saying I failed? Are you confirming I'm worthless?' which grinds the conversation to a complete halt. Because of Dean's intense self-criticism, Sam can never really be 100% honest with him or ask for support with his own issues, especially regarding their childhood. As anything outside of 100% gratitude just becomes another stick for Dean to beat himself with, and the conversation is immediately derailed.

Not only does Deans self-hatred mean that Sam's expression of his own experiences are pretty consistently shut down. In some ways, I think Dean strips Sam of his autonomy - he's so self-loathing, he sees every decision Sam makes as being about/a reaction to him. A good example of this is Stanford. Rather than understanding Stanford for what it was, an attempt by Sam to carve out a better life from himself and escape hunting. Dean views it as betrayal or abandonment, some re-affirmation of his own belief that he's not worth caring about. Rather than understanding it's a rejection of hunting, he sees it as Sam rejecting him. To Dean, Sam isn't attempting to find a better life, he's punishing the family.

Overall, it's interesting that people largely and rightfully sympathise with Dean due to his self-hatred. However, I don't see as much discussion about how his self-hatred doesn't just hurt him, it hurts those he's close to, as it colours his interpretation of their every action. Dean's self-loathing is always the biggest thing in the room and that has consequences.

[samwinchesterdefender]

sam winchester and dogs - analysis

nobody really seems to talk about this. the other day, i saw that clip of sam and dean going through the memory of the time sam ran away for the first time in a while, and it made me think. we only see sam with dogs a handful of times in the series, at least owning them, and there’s a reason for that— dogs are a symbol of imperfect happiness for sam winchester.

⚠️there will be MAJOR spoilers in this post⚠️

example 1 - bones

we see bones in the episode when dean and sam are going through some of their best memories. one of sam’s is the time he ran away for two weeks and hid somewhere with a dog he found—bones—and lived off “funions and mr pibb”. people often criticize him for this in favor of dean, because dean tells him that john beat him for losing sam. however, people don’t really seem to mention the backstory for this (probably? not all the details line up, but this is seemingly the first time sam ran away) that we got for this later in the episode with sully.

in the episode, we get flashbacks of one part of sam’s childhood: dean and john were on another hunt and wouldn’t let him come with. he had asked sully, “ever think… about running away?” which sparked a conversation about sam’s future which ended in sam deciding to actually run away and ended with a cut back to present day.

sam had decided to run away because he was tired of feeling unvalued and hated the way he was currently living. he didn’t really hate his family— he was just a kid sick of being alone with no promise of change soon. when he ran away, though, he was still alone. he was just alone without promise of dean and john being home in a few days. he thought it would fix his problems, but it didn’t. he didn’t have the greatest relationship with john, but he did love dean. he didn’t really show it as a kid but dean was the only one who showed him real love, and he needed that. he didn’t have that anymore.

this is the first instance sam is shown owning a dog, and it comes after sam ran away for something he thought would fix his life but ended up not really measuring up in the end. he was ripped back from his little adventure right back into his old life. he couldn’t escape. he was free,

but he didn’t have dean.

example 2 - riot

one of the WORST plot lines on this show. i’ll say that. weird choice for sam. regardless, it stands with the analysis.

we all know how sam hit the dog and went to live with amelia instead of looking for dean. it came from the idea that dean used that one time they had evidently agreed on where if one of them died, the other would live a normal life. personally i don’t think sam would have actually done this at this point in the show, but whatever. dean had lisa and ben, and this was sam’s version. sam’s chance at normalcy. we see bits of his life with amelia develop over multiple episodes, and he was even living with her. amelia made him happy. and they really showed that dog a lot.

the dog lived with them, obviously. the second instance of sam owning a dog. sam was trying to start this new life for himself of being a guy who settles down with someone and lives his life in peace. of course, that didn’t really end up working for him, as he left amelia to go back to hunting.

yet again, we have a dog present during a time sam was trying to escape his problems and start over. sam was starting to get this life for himself that he never really thought he would have, but that he always had as an unattainable dream. he was free,

but he didn’t have dean.

example 3 - miracle

the final instance shown of sam owning a dog. dean had found this one, which, as we’ve seen from the takeaway of the two previous examples, was actually foreshadowing of dean’s death in the final episode.

unfortunately, we all remember how 15x20 starts with sam and dean in a semi-normal life. they’ve beat chuck. they’ve saved the world multiple times, and lost so many people in the process. they finally get some normalcy, while still keeping up the little hunting jobs. and then dean somehow dies on that damn rusty rebar.

immediately proceeding is what i can remember through heavy tears as an extremely sad montage of sam living his life without dean, permanently, with parallels to earlier scenes in the episode. then we get that shot of sam and miracle watching dean’s body burn.

dean had unknowingly found sam a companion before he died. this was what sam had left of his big brother. a dog. he took that dog with him when he left the bunker, and took care of him until the day he died. they had both loved that dog. sam had gotten a taste of a free life— a free life with his brother, unshackled by world-threatening evils. that was then forcibly taken away from him in an instant. he was once again alone. alone with miracle. he was free,

but he didn’t have dean.

[mrcowboydeanwinchester]

early seasons sam is just that bit spoiled and i think that is just a feat in itself on dean's behalf. he managed to raise a kid in a motel room off of macaroni cheese and second hand clothes but he sacrificed enough that sam still grew to be spoiled and petty. that s1 dynamic where sam has absolutely no clue about any of the shit dean went through is actually so so important because it shows just how stupidly good dean was at putting on a front of normality and protecting his brother. not only has dean been performing his whole life he's been performing parenthood his whole life and it was a success. dean's performances didn't start as self protection they started in the same way a mother performs to their child that everything is okay as the world falls to pieces around them. as s12 says, it's not fair and dean can't do it, but sam's spoiled s1 nature is a sign of how successful dean actually was

[dotthings]

After rewatching 4.19 Jump the Shark, here's some thoughts on hunting, the making of personal connections, and what SPN is about.

As often happens with SPN, the characters themselves play out ruminations on these themes. I barely even have to write commentary.

DEAN What the hell was that? SAM What? DEAN 'Hunting is life. You can't have connections.' Dad gave you that exact same speech, remember? It was just before you ditched us for Stanford. You hated Dad for saying that stuff, and now you're quoting him? SAM Yeah, well, turns out Dad was right. DEAN Since when? SAM Since always. Dean, when I look at Adam, you know what I see? DEAN A normal kid. SAM No. Meat. Because the demons and monsters out there, that's all he is. I hated Dad for a long time. I did. But now I think I understand. So we didn't have a dog and a white picket fence. So what? Dad did right by us. He taught us how to protect ourselves. Adam deserves the same.

Notice how this severe idea that all they can have is this, nothing else, no friends (even friendships with other hunters is frowned upon, John was noticeably isolationist and distrustful and alienated his hunter friends who loved him, like Bobby), no love stories, nothing but the hunt, comes right from John's words.

Dean's shocked to hear it from Sam. In part because Sam always fought John about it and now Sam is quoting John, but in part it's because one of Dean's long arcs is rethinking a lot of John's ideas and finding his own identity outside of being John's shadow, or mimic.

In season 4, as Sam goes deeper and deeper under the influence of demon blood and Ruby's coaching, he goes colder and more ruthless and more remote, less like the Sam we know, and Dean notices more and more.

DEAN Listen to yourself, man. SAM You think I’m wrong? DEAN I think it's too late for us. This is our life. This is who we are, okay? And it's fine. I accept that. But with Adam, he's still got a chance, man. He can go to school. He could be a doctor.

Now it pulls back to Dean's resignation--but it's too late, the words are already out there with Dean questioning it. Too late for the audience not to notice.

While Dean doesn't expressly voice the idea that as hunters, maybe they don't have to sever all personal connections and turn off their hearts, it's self-evidently on Dean's mind. He doesn't see much hope for himself. That doesn't mean he isn't thinking it. And it's a very obvious part of the canon story for the run of the show.

As usual with SPN, two things can be true at once. Or there's a seed of truth but it's an incomplete truth. It is difficult to form and maintain connections in the hunting life, even with other hunters in the life. That doesn't mean Sam and Dean don't have any or can't have any. SPN self evidently shows they absolutely did, right along. Not just with each other.

Found family--the forging of connections, the human heart--is part of the life's blood of the story and always has been.

Dean in particular, throughout the series, has been adept at forming these connections and caring. He may at times try to shut himself away because it feels safer. The other people get less hurt. He'll get less hurt. But always he lets them in, he always cares.

It's easier with other hunters. People in the life with them, who understand that life.

John's narrow worldview of hunting, the ruthlessness, that's mirrored in Sam in this episode, and the idea that they can't have anyone else--isn't presented as the right answer.

Dean, as the series goes on, moves more and more into living the hunting life in a way that's by his own definitions, his own way, not his father's dictates. Despite the challenges of the hunting life. Dean makes his own rules.

We also see more instances of people in the hunting life who don't live by the extreme isolationist ideas of John Winchester. In fact, it turns out John was unusual and that hunters are sociable with each other, even if the life can be harsh and isolating. There's a hunting community. We only see glimpses of it early on because John kept Sam and Dean unusually isolated due to the circumstances of his particular quest, the YED.

But Sam and Dean are not their father. They forge their own path.

Most of all, SPN is a story about the connections that form between people--including the brothers, but not limited solely to the brothers.

SAM Dean...all this...it's not real. The dad Adam knew—he wasn't real. The things out there in the shadows—they are real. The world is coming to an end. That's real. Everything else is just part of the crap people tell themselves to get through the day.

You know what popped into my head when Sam said that? Dean's voice telling Cas in 4.22 -- You know what's real? People, families -- that's real.

Sam falls into a dark despairing mindset where all he can see is monsters and he is losing his heart. 4.19 ends on an ominous note

DEAN You know, I finally get why you and Dad butted heads so much. You two were practically the same person. SAM looks over. DEAN I mean, I worshipped the guy, you know? I dressed like him, I acted like him, I listen to the same music. But you were more like him than I will ever be. And I see that now. SAM I'll take that as a compliment. DEAN You take it any way you want.

Dean's coming to some realizations about his own hero-worship and imitation of his father, and seeing how he's not in fact, his father, no matter how much he fears it (or used to wish for it), and learning how much Sam is the one who is more like John than he is, despite Sam's lack of imitation and worship.

And without their friends who are like family, Sam and Dean aren't ever finding their way out of this thicket. They'd be lost, the world would be lost.

SPN is first and foremost about love.

[sssammich]

ok sam, obvi Nia and Brainy are great, but because you've already emptied out the box of corps, what about dreamercorp??

i do not ship it because they are sisters to me. i just never got the vibe of romance from them. it's the same way that i don't really ship nia and kara.

what i DO believe in is the sisterhood. or, more aptly, the potential of their sisterhood. especially with their relationships re: mothers, siblings, etc. what i think nia can represent is the barometer for the rest of the world outside of the superfriends bubble. and i think that lena wants that, and nia offers that without requiring anything in return. i think there's kind of a different level of sisterhood as well that exists in comparison to alex and kara. kara is her mentor at work and i think because alex is so...alex, nia just falls in line like kara but almost has the Youngest privilege about it, you know?

the point is that i think the kind of relationship fulfillment that they have is more familial than anything else. i think it helps that there's someone around lena whose path she understands having taken not too long ago even if the circumstances are different, and just being able to lend a listening ear and not try to Solve or Fix or give advice is something that lena realizes she appreciates more since she's rarely allowed herself to just be in that situation.

but lena comes around a bit more laterally, so to speak, but there's like a crush that nia has. that's one thing i will definitely believe though, that nia has a girlcrush with lena and at first is like freaked about it (not because it's a woman but because she's so Affected by lena's presence) and then eventually, once she's learned about lena a bit more and spent more time, she really leans into it. it's all the more supported by brainy before they're a thing. and i just imagine that lena has to sit nia down and is all "listen i like being your friend but that's all we'll ever be"

and nia's all "because you're in love with kara. got it. say no more, sister." and that's a whole host of things.

(for non-supercorp version, nia's all "yeah babe chill. but also the night is young, who knows!" kisses her on the cheek and skips away for the bit. anyway it's a fun confusion for lena and that's what she deserves)

[grim-work]

what’s all this then

mary, sam, and the yellow-eyed demon + the ⁱᵐᵖˡⁱᶜᵃᵗⁱᵒⁿˢ

[brotherphilia]

Sam Winchester | Preacher by Roe Kapara | Stray Bullet by KMFDM

Part II

[fandom-hoarder]

Posterity

THIS!!

[xx-blueboy-xx]

To celebrate trickster Tuesday! I am going to ramble about Mystery Spot, the episode ever. Don't take any of this super seriously I am by no means a "meta analysis" this is just me foaming at the mouth. + the spiral of thoughts it sent me on.

Anyways. If you wanna read it! It's below the cut! Because it got (long).

First off, Mystery Spot represents the literal cycle Sam (and also the entire Winchester family) find themselves caught in, over and over and over again: due to their inherent savior & martyr complexes. Which are not a great blend. Imagine having to save everyone you care about, but, always being willing to simply - die for them. More than willing. Happy to. Feel like you have to, in order to be worth anything to anyone or them. In order to atone.

Now, we saw in S1-S2 how much Dean is willing to give up for family, for Sam. It's the entire reason S3 is happening - he sold his own soul to a demon, something he hated John for, to save Sam. To bring him back to life. Something we learn that his own mother did all those years ago: just not at the price of her soul, but, essentially - her first born child (so Rumplstilskin of Azazel for real). The Winchester need to save each other, that toxic codependency on family, that "family is all you got at the end of the day" mentality is what started it all.

We have only seen in S1-S2 breif glimpses that Sam also shows these signs. The same codependency as Dean, and that savior complex. However - it never becomes truly and completely apparent until S3. Where he is willing to steal human livers, find anyway - anything to save Dean from his deal. It isn't until Jessica, John and everyone else he has known is gone, that Sam begins to fall completely into the codependency that Dean unfortunately, feeds into. (With all of his "You ran away from the family" talk and such)

In Mystery Spot: we see the first true depths of how far Sam is willing to go to keep Dean alive. How far he has fallen from that rebelliousness he had before John died. Starting to agree with Dean that he "tried his best". And things like that. In Mystery Spot we see that Sam rather relive the same day over and over and over again, than let Dean die. We never see him accept it. Not once. Sure, it's a time-loop, but we know Gabriel was trying to teach Sam to let go.

Teach him to break the fucking cycle. But he doesn't. He contuines to give into it, over and over. Until Gabriel reveals himself, thinking maybe he can still change it. Change Sam. Get through to him. That'd when we get those 6 months of pure obessesion.

And at the end of it? We see the Sam that suggested to Dean they use the evil-immortal doctors alchemy to keep him alive, perfectly willing to steal human livers and such for it: come out full force. He is completely willing to sacrifice a stranger to save Dean. Rather than being hellhent on killing the Trickster, on revenge, he wants him back. At any cost. Even an innocent human life.

This is the Sam we see, after years and years of Dean encouraging this behavior - seasons later, bring an entire apyclopse down on the world to get rid of the Mark of Cain. Force a man to sell his soul. Have Rowena kill the inky person she had ever allowed herself to love - someone she considered her son. To utterly get rid of another person's autonomy (keeping her locked up ect.) to get it.

Note: it is NOT Dean's fault, that Sam broke Amara out, I simply am stating that his "we die for family sammy" and "we do everything for family sammy" throughout the years helped Sam make the decision. But at the end of the day, Sam choose to get rid of the Mark. All of the death that happened because of her is pretty directly on his hands, and he knows this.

I also believe that, while Sam feels massive amounts of sympathy, I believe he struggles a (lot) with empathy (autism + protecting himself/trauma response). He can easily replicate empathy, and act as if he cares but we see his hypocritical behavior consistently come into play and make us think: huh. I don't think he actually understands how Dean, Castiel ect. feels. That is why he comes off as spoiled and ungrateful to Dean in early seasons, and in later seasons does things that are completely amoral and deranged. Simply for those he loves.

Because he struggles to wrap his head around *why* Dean can save him, kill people for him, force an angel on him - but when he releases an apyclopse, him saying "I would do it all again." Is somehow wrong. He doesn't see his own hypocrisy at times and struggles especially to see others.

Anyways.

I support Sammy war crimes.

[sweetpapercroissant]

Saying Sam never stood up for himself or stopped doing it after s4 or that soulless Sam was the only one who did (I’ve heard this one way too many times) is such a discreditation of his character. If you really think that, you either watched the show blindfolded or you’re willfully ignoring a very important aspect of his personality.

One of the most admirable things about him is that even though he made a biblical (hehe) mistake, he doesn’t let that define him for the rest of his life (and that is so so important). He doesn’t doubt himself and his judgment constantly the way most people wish he would because we’re so used to the self pitying and flagellating archetype of main (especially male) character. I mean if he isn’t constantly bashing himself how will we feel sorry for him right?

Except he’s not the kind of person who feels sorry for himself let alone wants anyone else to. Hell he was clashing with Dean and Bobby for not trusting him (unfairly at times, it’s not like they didn’t have their reasons and he had violated their trust, no matter who think was “wrong” in that scenario) in s5 itself. He stands up for what he believes is right whether that’s a moral or a strategic decision, and he has never and will never let anyone walk all over him. More importantly? He stands up for himself and then he stands his ground, always. Period.

Almost every episode he and Dean have some kind of disagreement, small or big, and he always, always puts his opinions out there and they have a discussion (although that is a mild way of describing some of their earlier er, disagreements) and while the outcome may differ every time, he’s not one to back down if he thinks he’s right. And these discussions aren’t the “healthy conversations” with therapy talk and both of them constantly saying “I hear you and your feelings are valid” (and why would you want them to??) that is the uh, “demand” these days (lot of air quotes there) but they do listen to each other and give the other the benefit of the doubt, or even just their reluctant agreement up to a point. But if he isn’t convinced by Dean’s argument he’ll do what he thinks is best even if that means going behind his back.

And they get better at it, these conversations and being honest with each other but ultimately, Sam is not one to be forced to do anything he doesn’t want to. If their disagreement is too big or (in later seasons) they simply trust each other enough, they also go their separate ways (briefly, of course) to pursue their own leads (3.15 Time Is On My Side and 12.04 American Nightmare off the top of my head) (also noteworthy that in both cases, Dean is the one who realises and agrees that he was wrong and comes back to Sam).

What I’m trying to say here is that, Sam accepting and learning from his mistakes and learning to listen to and trust Dean’s judgment in addition to his own is not the same as Sam losing all his resolve and self efficacy and around 75% of his personality and becoming a meek, obedient doll. He’s Sam fucking Winchester.

[creatorofarcadia]

Watching S02 E13 with foreknowledge of what’s coming is excruciating. This poor boy prays everyday. Sam’s so desperate to believe there’s some force for good in the world to counter the evil he sees everyday. He knows his brother is looking out for him, but he’s still so frightened of what he could become. So he clings to the idea of a higher power, of angels who can save him.

And he’s right, there are angels out there. But they don’t want to save him. 

[dimplecki]

sometimes I think about how sam could fight off the REAL lucifer but couldn't fight off the imaginary lucifer he hallucinated in his head. only to inevitably realise sam is his own worst enemy.

[mrcowboydeanwinchester]

do you think fourty year old sam ever thinks oh god even though it's all over now we defeated everyone we need to defeat and i've been to hell and back. what if i came back wrong. what if in 2007 when dean did that demon deal i actually did come back wrong and none of us know it. and i haven't been myself now for ten years and i never will be myself again. what if i got to the end of my story and i ended wrong

[dotthings]

Back on my slow, full series rewatch of SPN and noticing some things in S4 about the theme of Sam and Dean’s specialness and Dean’s love/hate relationship with hunting and the nature of Sam and Dean as heroes.

Sam post first. I’ll post the Dean one separately.

In season 4 leading up to 4.15 Death Takes a Holiday (written by Jeremy Carver) Sam’s been training with Ruby, drinking demon blood, and developing his demon-related powers more strongly. Dean’s been uneasy about that. And running alongside this is Sam increasingly growing drunk on power, as well as his detachment and sense of specialness.

SAM Look, I don't want them to die, either, Dean, but there's a natural order. DEAN You're kidding, right? SAM What? DEAN You don't see the irony in that? I mean, you and me, we're like the poster boys of the unnatural order. All we do is ditch death. SAM Yeah, but the normal rules don't really apply to us, do they? DEAN stares. DEAN We're no different than anybody else. SAM I'm infected with demon blood. You've been to hell. DEAN looks away. SAM Look, I know you want to think of yourself as Joe the Plumber, Dean, but you're not. Neither am I. The sooner you accept that, the better off you're gonna be.

It’s not that Sam is 100% wrong. Their job, their lives, are unusual, they do have to deal with weirdness most people don’t, in a highly dangerous, unpaid job, Sam does have demon blood powers, Dean has been to hell. But there’s also a bunch of things in Sam’s pov here that is linked to his S4 overall arc of going off the rails, moving away from who he is.

Way back in S4, there’s in-story comment on how Sam and Dean have plot armor while other characters don’t. Via Sam expressing an alarming sense of superiority—rules don’t apply to them, if other people die too bad it’s the natural order, they’re special. This isn’t Sam (and I really appreciate Sam’s sense of horror during the S14 reveal about the plot armor). Sam’s got his head twisted around here. Sam’s talk about specialness screams of Sam falling for Ruby’s cosmic trap, priming him to get where he needs to be to set Lucifer free.

One of the things that was so appealing to me about SPN is Sam and Dean’s ordinariness as heroes. They’re just a couple of guys from Lawrence, Kansas yanked into the world of the supernatural. They’re both the everyperson pov, while they’re also both outsiders and “freaks.” Sam and Dean often have to reject “great destinies” that cosmic beings try to force upon them, they rebel, tear up the pages, make the story their own. Free will was always a big theme on the show. Rebelling against the cosmic being manipulated system.

[sssammich]

(upends all the -corps on your desk)

agent, guardian, reign, rojas, super, freespace for any i forgot?

god you're a bitch (affectionate)

im so sorry it's so long so please have a read more

also i give you 2 freespace -corps as a treat (to literally me and like 3 other people idk if anybody else cares about this)

agentcorp - NO

for all the potential they could have based on how i feel about their relationship to their respective siblings, i just don't care. im not vibing. just ready to nuke her? idk pass i guess. (did kara lie a gazillion times? yeah for sure. but also like she doesn't want lena dead dead so)

guardiancorp - (if you're referring to kelly, then YES; if james, then NO)

the potential for james guardiancorp could have been interesting but it's literally the same as agentcorp in that i end up not caring about it? no nuking tho and i think if it wasn't idk rammed into our eyeballs without friendship (that is the literal ticket to lena's heart, it's friendship so idk why they're not giving it to her), i might be more cool with it. but as it stands *shrugs* just not vibing lmao

the potential for kelly guardiancorp is that there is so much healing involved. not because she's idk a therapist or whatever and it's her job, i think kelly (for all the characterization she did get) i think it can pair as unlikely friends who click on well but turn into something more. it's slow but it doesn't burn, necessarily. i think their respective demons and skeletons in the closet are gonna come out and not necessarily war with one another, but come out at inopportune times. i think kelly might even last longer than jack, all things considered, because she knows about that pain or tension or darkness that lena needs. i think it could work. also i maintain that gun range headcanon

reigncorp - YES

sam is a also giver but i think because she's not silver spoon-grown the way the rest of lena's posse are, there's a grit to her that makes her different. at least to the likes of jack and andrea. there's history there, shared companionship, compatibility. literally a quality friends to lovers fic. the child complicates it, but lena is so starved for love just as she hungers for giving love. i think that sam (and ruby, as a result) are good people for that. i think of all the relationships to work out long term, this might be it, actually. especially if we're talking long term restorative healing journies. controversial take since i have never written anything to signify this, but *shrugs* they would be good for each other. i think this is like accidental eventual happy ending in the way that they've since stayed together through everything, it almost is a surprise when lena leans forward and sam closes the distance. but then when they kiss, it isn't. so, yeah.

rojascorp - YES

similar to how sam and lena have history, companionship, and compatibility, i'd like to think andrea was the blueprint for that. and then she betrayed lena and got into some bullshit and wrecked her life a bit before getting it slightly together. rojascorp is like redemption!arc endgame that i think would happen in light of a permanent supercorp rift. their dynamic would also serve to highlight just how vastly different their station in life is in comparison to the others. where the superfriends are decidedly middle class, lena and andrea literally are in the .05% of society. they live particular lives, have particular expectations thrust upon them, navigate the world so differently. lena is open to hang with the plebes people but staying around andrea keeps her up in the social circles of her family, despite their absence. aside from that, i think that andrea will fight for and with lena. i think she's the right type of pain and struggle that lena needs in her life. in some ways i also see this working out, but i can also see this couple getting as close to the Best and they get in each other's way by getting in the way of themselves. old wounds that have scabbed over might reopen at a moment of weakness, even with the progress they make, so that would be interesting on how can they survive again. if nothing else, that's how they define love with each other.

supercorp - YES

i mean (see my ao3 tag pls)

if you want a real answer, i think they have been set up so perfectly together that whatever it is that the show can't do, i know that i can do for myself (and the fandom as well). i'm also thinking about the emotional beats of their upbringing and complicated relationships they have with both male and female family members and what that entails, and also that they serve to complement and parallel each other in different ways. two women born out of circumstance and trauma, enduring of so many things, what's not to like. suffice it to say, other women on this list also share this with lena, so it's not like kara is unique, but i do think that the ways in which the two of them have stationed themselves where kara is the sun and lena orbits her (both canonically and fanonically, for literal better or worse) is fascinating in a way that i literally just can't get enough of. granted, that could be that kara is the titular character so we just see her more. but i've shipped pairs from nothing but the power of my imagination, so i don't think that's it, necessarily. i think that there is a bit of a serendipitous approach to their relationship's rise and fall. i think redemption!arc endgame, when done right between them, reassesses how they can be better than they were, this time with each other in mind. but it's a lot of work and i think they will have to really, really work at it - especially kara, to make it so that they never hurt each other in the way that they have in the past. kara has committed a thousand paper cuts on lena and i think she addresses that in her second chance with lena. and i think that's enough of that grounding pain that lena seeks, whether she realizes it or not. it's not all the way healthy, i'll admit, but they are also not all the way healthy, so.

freespace: rojaslettecorp (aka andrea, veronica, lena) - YES

it's a throuple of boarding school bitches with A Past, all rich and somewhat shady in various and compelling ways. what's not to love i guess. i headcanon that they are all soft (even veronica, but not all the way, just enough for the other two not to give up on her) and broken mostly through family trauma and expectations that they don't meet

but also think about the fact that they could very well come together as versions of their youthful selves, a little battered, a little broken, a little bit more criminal (they are rich, they literally already exist outside of the law for the most part) and there's a certain kind of recognition in that. the way it'll play though is that andrea and veronica will 100000% antagonize each other and lena will for sure play the straight man who just keeps the peace together long enough until it's time for her to pick a winning side, temporary that side may be.

freespace: imralucylena (what the fuck kind of corp are they?) - WHY NOT

a) i believe in myself so im vibing and can make this happen so jot that down

b) "in service of the greater good, even at the expense of one's personal good" is what i would sum this all up to be

[starlite-png]

Picture a younger Sam always offputting people bc he never emotes, even if he is feeling emotions, and dean always being able to read him regardless of how cold sam seems. Sam eventually learns how he's 'supposed' to act, so he fakes it. This all feeds into him wanting to be 'normal'. Even throughout the events of the series, he only really drops the forced emoting unless he's around Dean, Bobby, or (eventually) Cas.

I think it'd be neat :)