#TLJ theorizing

[eirenare]

TROS junior novelization: “Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise” + some post-TROS era thoughts

I’ve been writing a big ass post compilating all of the “Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise” throughout the books up until TROS and analyzing them, and I wanted to wait for my TROS junior novelization to arrive to keep building it and post it but I’m just too excited because THE VOICE IS BACK so I gotta talk at least about this

Some days ago I did a post (which you can check here) talking and speculating about the TROS junior novelization and how it was upon us, and that I could’ve misunderstood the voice in the TLJ junior novelization (I talked about the voice months ago, compiling the parts where it appears in the TLJ junior novelization, here), and funnily, I HAD misunderstood it but at the same time I HADN’T

The reason? Yes, the “Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise” was a coping mechanism of Rey... but there was more to it, something I started to suspect again after reading pre-TROS some more times a certain fragment from the TLJ junior novelization where “the voice” and the phrase were mentioned

The TROS junior novelization may look like it has lots of yikes for what I saw on some pages floating around, but look at THIS (analysis below):

“The Force surrounds you, Rey. Feel the Force flowing through you, Rey. Let it lift you. We stand by you, Rey.

Rey, the Force will be with you, always.

There were so many up there—so many stars, so many voices—Rey could not keep track. But there was a light inside her that shone brighter and spoke louder than all the others.

Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise.

She looked deep into that light and saw there were two. A binary star. And though the voice that said those words was her own, the love behind them was not.”

Okay, so, first of all: *unholy pterodactyl screeching of excitement*

For what it seems, each voice in the World Between Worlds (because yes, this is the WBW, the descriptions of this scene in the TROS non-junior novelization just leaves no room for doubt: “the battle above disappeared. Instead, Rey saw a perfect sky, vast with stars. Peaceful. Light-filled. It was like she was staring through a window to somewhere else, a place between places.” [...] “More voices came at her fast but gentle, as though she lay at a confluence of the Force, possibilities, futures and pasts all stretching away from her, or maybe leading toward her. The cosmos, time, energy, being—nothing was the way she’d thought it was.” [...] “Presences filled her awareness, some recent, some ancient, some still anchored to the living in a strange way. Rey didn’t understand. But she accepted.”) corresponds with a light... and when Rey peers into a light inside of her which is brighter and louder than all the others, she hears the phrase AND sees the light is A BINARY STAR

... So, a light brighter than the rest—which is fitting with Ben’s description in the TROS non-junior novelization, where it’s said that his light is so bright it helps Rey resist Palpatine’s influence: “Rey continued to approach. His power was intoxicating. She found herself raising her weapon, almost against her will. If not for the other presence in her mind, bright and shining with light, she would not have been able to resist him."

And that light inside her, brighter than the rest, being like a binary star—which fits as well, and only with, Rey and Ben being one in the Force

And apparently the words were hers, but the love behind them was not—so, Ben’s feelings echoing through their Dyad bond (and the WBW? Through both?) across time and space because a Dyad bond (just like the Force) cares not for such boundaries

Also if I remember well (need to find the pic or get a photo myself when the novel arrives), in the TROS junior novelization, when Ben and Rey are circling each other in the hangar of the Star Destroyer (on Kijimi) they’re described like in a way that looks pretty much like a binary star reference

I’ve been basking in all of this for days, even though thinking it’s Ben basically sends me back to the heavy feels lol

I mean, these words Rey repeated to herself for 14-15 years seem to be (it only makes sense to be) echos of Ben (of hope) from the future, and that helped her survive and cope with her own pain and despair... I’m not okay your honor

And there’s just no way it can be anyone else but Ben, given all of this and the contexts. I’ve read comments saying maybe it could refer to her parents or even Luke and Leia, but... it just doesn’t fit? The light is INSIDE Rey, brighter than the rest, and it’s a binary star. It’s simply Rey and another person, and that other person can only be Ben, her soulmate

The best thing is that they actually could use this to bring Ben back to Rey if they wanted, because they didn’t go very deep into the theme of the Dyad AND when the WBW is involved ANYTHING could happen (and it’s not as if these could be the only methods to bring someone back)

To quote the TFA junior novelization: “Rey did not want the owner of the voice to come back. She wanted the speaker to stay.”

Disney/Lucasfilm have a golden opportunity now to either cast the group again for a live-action or animated series, or a movie (or movies), fixing stuff. It’s not gonna make TROS go away nor fix it all, but there’s A LOT of stuff that could end up in a WAY better place than it ended up in TROS, and I’m pretty sure if they pick up some people that know what they’re doing and the premise is good, the cast would want to be back to fix the mess

If they can’t get the cast, just... do an animated series. Or, heck, if it could be done, both would be soooo amazing? (Although I don’t think we’d end up with both, if we end up with something it’ll be one or the other I think) A movie would be ideal to fix stuff, but a series (live-action or animated) would be ideal for something that could go on for a long time with new adventures. DLF could just attract back so many fans (including the new ones, which they should know already are vital to keep a franchise alive) that they’ve pushed away with TROS

I mean, look, if even my lizard brain can come up with viable ideas on how to fix so many mistakes from TROS, DLF certainly can, and there’s people with the talent AND care to do it, so... yeah

We’re getting some WBW mentions (and things that could be hints too) after TROS, other characters have been able to come back from worse and less vague deaths, we still don’t know what a Dyad bond is fully capable of *coughs in suspicions that The High Republic might show some of this and maybe serve as a preamble to Ben’s return*, a good post-TROS fix is absolutely needed, and DLF would make an obscene amount of money if they brought Ben back and did a post-TROS mending a lot of things, so right now I’m proceeding with cauting and keeping my feet on the ground just in case, but my hopes are kinda going up

[nodelinquent]

you know, I think the last jedi is kinda fascinating in how fans of sw seem to hate it but like, critics praise it for its themes and subversion of tropes. Just makes me think that your emotional attatchment to the world and characters are going to effect how you feel about the movie. 

[greyjedireylo]

I don't get why we are so quick to dismiss any rumor that contains fanboy-friendly material. Star Wars isn't a Jane Austen novel. Of course there will be convoluted goose chases and pew pew scenes and cool badass troopers and shady aliens. Kylo and Rey aren't Darcy and Elizabeth. They will reconcile eventually but the whole movie cannot be a romantic drama centered on their emotions.

when have I EVER said it’s not going to contain fanboy-friendly material???? there are obviously requisite elements every SW movie has–space battles and elaborately designed aliens and new spaceships and a scene with some weird creature that probably has tentacles, etc.

but clearly you weren’t around during the TFA-TLJ hiatus or you’d understand the specific sort of fanboy theories I’m mocking. and they’re things that sacrifice the story and the themes for the ‘cool badass factor!!!!!!’–the sort of fanboys who complain that Kylo Ren is a bad villain while missing that that’s the entire point of his character, who think Vader is some stone-cold badass instead of the broken, pathetic person he’s actually portrayed as in canon, who produced all these fake TLJ leaks that turned Luke into the main hero of the ST as he took on all the KoR at once with his lightsaber, who OBSESSED about who Snoke was and came up with a million ridiculous theories about it, invested so much time into it that they were outraged when TLJ itself almost directly, ironically mocked those 2 years of theorizing they wasted by saying it doesn’t matter. those fanboys who misremember OT Luke as some badass hero taking down people with his lightsaber, instead of a badass hero who defeats evil by loving it back to the light.

and yeah, the whole movie is not going to be a romantic drama, but guess what? the ST is centered around the dynamic between Rey and Ben. everything that happens between them is the lynchpin and the emotional heart of all the action around them, whether they’re having a mind-reading battle, physically fighting each other, touching hands across the galaxy, saving each other’s lives, fighting back to back, having gut-wrenching conversations, or tussling over a lightsaber in a force-ordained stalemate. they’re each other’s absolute equals and everything they do is galaxy-shaking. and, like JJ said in the TFA commentary, the story we really care about–because that other stuff is there for the aesthetics–there’s no emotional stakes in a pew-pew space battle that we know the good guys are going to win, but there are tremendous emotional stakes in complicated enemies on opposite sides of a war who feel deeply for each other, in the question of whether a lost son will return to the light.

so yeah, as long as fanboys ignore the emotional heart and core themes of the story to focus on the shiny pew-pew space battles package they’re wrapped in, I’m gonna keep mocking their theories lmao

[starwarsshippings]

had a dream about star wars. it feels like forever since i’ve dreamt about it. i was having all sorts of crazy dreams before tlj came out.

anyway it was about rey being a skywalker. luke was there and so was this woman with red hair (i’m guessing mara but her name was never mentioned) and we were sitting in this big circle in some kind of waterfall cave thing. this red headed women knew that rey was her child, but didn’t know if luke was the father. luke said he didn’t know/couldn’t remember. this guy stands up and starts theorizing that luke IS the father and that he and the mother somehow lost their memory. the woman says yes it’s true, then we get a flash back to her younger years. she had brown hair back then and they were in some sort of war zone, she runs up to luke with baby rey strapped to her chest and she tries to talk to luke but he won’t respond. he doesn’t know her. flashback over and luke is taking all this in. the same guy stands up and says to luke ‘’you’re a mechanic, she’s a mechanic and rey is a mechanic. how else do you explain that?’’ lol and that was the end 

so basically luke lost his memory and luke, (mara?) and rey are all mechanics and thats the best way to know they’re all related lmao

[tskumoyuuma]

really do miss the pre tlj days cause that's when star wars was fun. say what u want about tlj but as soon as it came out star wars was no longer fun to talk about

[bullagit]

god you know the thing is there were a lot of individual things and thematic ideas i thought were interesting and enjoyable in tlj but even if i walked out of there thinking of it as like the Highest Art for whatever reason

the fact that it’s left so many people in this fandom convinced that finn isn’t the male lead of the trilogy, that he’s a sidekick, that rey is the Real Main Character and it’s only her (or god forbid someone thinking kylo is the male lead) is something i can never get over

finn’s actions directly drove the plot of the force awakens. without his contributions and decisions, the movie falls apart. by the end, it was indisputable that both he and rey were written as co-leads of this trilogy and that they’re both meant to be important. he’s at the center of a web of meaningful interactions and relationships with other characters. literally the only big player between tfa and tlj he hasn’t met, bonded with, or had a significant interaction with is luke skywalker, which is a shame bc tfa had a ton of really cute parallels between them! he has an unknown origin just as worthy of theorizing about as rey’s origins, he has just as many good interesting moments.

but in a post-tlj fandom everyone is so ready to shuffle finn off to the side even more than they already were. all the theorizing that was fine for rey is waved off. oh finn can’t be a skywalker/kenobi/etc bc Reasons. finn isnt force sensitive he’s an “everyman badass normal” (bc nothing says everyman like breaking through a lifetime of brainwashing and conditioning against all odds, having no baseline normal childhood experience whatsoever). finn’s important connections and scenes with other characters get no big essays or gushing fanposts. people strip down his base personality/motivations/inherent kindness and try to clumsily tape it onto other characters. 

it makes me so sad. he’s my favorite character in the NT, the male lead, and while tfa was far from perfect, at least jj abrams overall handled him with dignity and gravitas fitting that intention. at least i can wait for episode ix feeling like finn will be written as a main character again.

[joenessalovesu]

i had a thought, and i’m not proud of it, but thought i would share it anyways:

what if Rey’s dad was the thief who “helped” finn and rose?? like, that sticks with the trope that their nobodies and he is the one that does the whole “it’s just business”.

[reyskvwalker]

me, a week ago: i won’t change my url if rey’s not a skywalker guys because i’ll still love this url!!!

me now: :/

[eirenare]

Okay, soooo *rubs hands together* Now that I have the TLJ junior novelization, let's get to something very important:

it reveals the origin of the “Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise”

First of all, I have to say that I found out that reveal accidentally little ago before getting the novelization, thanks to this lovely Reylo art post over here , and it totally hyped me up (and made me cackle because I was writing a highly speculative fic piece that could kinda fit with this)

For those who don’t know, both in the TFA junior and non-junior novelizations, when Rey touches (or gets close to it, depending on the version) the legacy lightsaber and she sees the vision, what we see in the movie isn’t 100% what happens in the novelizations: in the books she also hears a familiar voice, described in interesting ways, telling her “Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise”, among some other changes

The TFA non-junior novelization has this, and the TFA junior novelization describes it too, but it also has minimum another moment where Rey thinks of this (I haven’t fully read the novels for now, so there might be more I’m unaware of as of now)

And this is where TLJ makes things interesting: there’s no mention of this in the movie, just like in TFA, and as far as I’ve read on the TLJ non-junior novelization there’s no mention there either—but the junior TLJ novelization has, at least, FOUR scenes where these phrases and Rey’s past appear

Sounds interesting? Well... buckle up guys, because this is going to be long (like... very long, because there are lots of paragraphs from the novelization, and then some discussion/speculation/theorizing) and it’s gonna end up in much feels for Rey (also, I’ll highlight some important or curious things):

CHAPTER 7

“The island was haunted. Rey was sure of it.

She stood outside Luke’s hut and watched the fog roll across the village. The haze was thick and held an eerie pre-dawn glow. She had the vague impression that something lurked within those mists. Specters whispering secrets from a long-lost time.

Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise.

The voice startled her. Those words were the same she had heard so many times in her drams on Jakku. Yet this was not Jakku. And looking around, she saw she stood alone.”

CHAPTER 10

“Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise.

The star freighter’s hatch closed, and its engines warmed. Rey tried to run toward it, but Unkar Plutt’s meaty hands held her back. No amount of squirming or wriggling would release her. She was only a small human child, while Plutt was an overweight, overgrown Crolute.

“Come back!” Rey shrieked at the ship. “Come back!”

Her cries caused Plutt to squeeze her arm so tightly it hurt. But that pain did not compare with the heartbreak of watching the freighter lift off. The ship roared toward Jakku’s sun, never to come back as promised.

Rey woke to the sunlight of another world. Dawn streamed through the doorway of the hut in which she’d taken shelter to escape the night’s rain. Fortunately, the rain had ended, as had the nightmare of her parents abandoning her on Jakku.

She blinked and the afterimages of the bad dream faded away.”

CHAPTER 21

“She didn’t want to listen to him. She wanted him to stop the charade and return to Leia. But she also wanted to know.

“Let it go”, he said. “You know the truth. Say it.”

She knew only what she feared. And what she feared was the truth of the voice from her dreams—the dreams that had haunted her since the day her parents abandoned her on Jakku.

Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise.

That was not the voice of her mother or her father, as she had long convinced herself.

The voice was her own.

She had imagined that voice and repeated those words over and over as a child until they became part of her reality, even her dreams. They had helped her fall asleep on a hungry stomach and pushed her to persevere when the future seemed bleak. When the years went by and her parents never returned to take her back, she never gave up the hope that someday soon they would and the nightmare of her youth would be over.

It was a false hope.

Was that what Luke had tried to prompt her to confess in the library? The truth she had locked in her heart and had never let herself admit? The truth that her parents were not hardworking space merchants trying to scrape enough together to make a better life for their family?

“They were nobody”, Rey said at last.

“They were filthy junk traders who sold you off for drinking money”, Kylo Ren said, spitting out the words. “They’re dead in a pauper’s grave on Jakku, like all the other junk buried there.”

Rey hadn’t known those details, but she had no doubt what Kylo Ren said was true. Her whole life had been one giant lie of her own making, a castle of dreams and echoes that had no foundation.

She shook all over. She might have survived Snoke’s mental thrashing, but this self-admission could break her for good.

Ren stepped toward her. “You have no place in the story. You come from nothing. You are nothing.” His tone became tender. “But not to me.”

He deactivated the blade. “Join me. Please.” He held out his hand to her.

She looked at him, pale and ghostly in the starlight of the window. His request was sincere. He wanted to teach her. She could learn great power from him. He could help her attain her true potential in the Force. Her past didn’t matter. All that mattered was her place in the future.

Rey reached out to Ren. He smiled.

Their hands never met.

Rey could never join with him. Not as he stood before her now. For he, too, had tried to erase his past, reinventing himself in the mold of his grandfather. The difference was that he had lost hope in his parents, while she had kept hope in hers, however false, alive.

Perhaps that was the very meaning of hope. It seemed false until it happened.

And if she wanted to save Ben, she would have to stop Kylo Ren.”

CHAPTER 23

“Rey saw stars. And lights. And more stars.

But the stars in the viewport began to fade away, as did the lights on the console. Everything was fading—even the sound of her breathing—into a quiet, dark nothingness.

Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise.

Jarred by the voice, she sat bolt upright in the cockpit of Snoke’s private shuttle. Of course there was no one else in the ship. Those words were just an echo in her mind. Something she had repeated to herself to stay alive on Jakku. A truth about herself with which she had reconciled.

Those words had just saved her, drawing her from what could have been a deadly slumber.

— — —

"Those words had just saved her, drawing her from what could have been a deadly slumber”

The absolute  s e r v e

* “Sleeping Beauty” vibes intensify*

Also, the reflection about how her past doesn’t matter, but that her future does? All the while she’s considering joining Ben? The fact that she can’t stay by Ben’s side specifically then, as the situation was in that moment?

And the fact that Rey, at that exact point between after the revelation and before the battle of Crait, clearly thought she wanted to save Ben— I’m—

*cries in Reylo*

But well, going back to the main point of all this...

Yep. That was Rey’s own voice

Not Ben from the future, not her parents, no one but herself—trying to shield herself from the pain and the truth to walk forward. I have to say this surprised me, but it’s interesting and it has me full of feels for Rey

Now the thing is, translations can be very interesting... and whereas in English you can probably just assume that Rey is saying “come back!” in plural, in Spanish (Castilian) it gets more interesting because the “come back!” is in singular

Worth to note how Rey doesn’t doubt Ben at all, she fully believes him. And honestly, I don’t think he lied either. But... could Ben had been mislead on accident by what he saw? Could have he seen something that, while true, wasn’t the whole truth, so he had an incomplete view?

I mean, that happens constantly—and we know how visions can be tricky things (something that, in fact, Snoke thinks about for a good while during a certain chapter of the TLJ non-junior novelization)

Also, another thing worth to note is that the TLJ novelization (both the junior and non-junior ones) expands on what Ben tells her in the turbolift about her turning. Here’s the TLJ non-junior version text (Ben’s words don’t differ, but the non-junior highlights in cursive some words—which is why I chose it, except I’m going to highlight them in bold for better visibility), starting from when Rey reveals her vision of Ben’s future:

“When we touched I saw your future,” she told him. “Just the shape of it, but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn—I’ll help you. I saw it. It’s your destiny.

She watched the emotions chase themselves across his face, echoed by jitters and spikes in the Force. Anger. Confusion. Pain. Loneliness. Longing. Sorrow.

Then he lifted his eyes to hers.

“You’re wrong”, Kylo said. “When we touched I saw something, too. Not your future—your past. And because of what I saw, I know that when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn. You’ll stand with me. Rey, I saw who your parents are.”

Rey stared at him, but there was no lie in Kylo’s eyes. And a terrifying realization bloomed in her mind: Kylo’s churning emotions weren’t just about himself. They were also about her.”

So, what Ben saw wasn’t a part of her future, but her past—and we know what Ben told Rey about her past, about her origins, but as I said: what if the picture was incomplete?

With incomplete I don’t mean that we would be getting Rey being related to someone important, nor inheriting powers—I do think there are ways for Rey to keep being a no one chosen as a “vessel” of the Force, to keep her origins humble, while making something really dramatic and shocking with her past

I mean, think of that... while Ben told Rey that her parents are dead and buried in a pauper’s grave in Jakku, Rey is shouting “come back!” in singular, so either the devil’s in the detail and the parents didn’t die at the same time, with one leaving Rey behind (or dying trying to do so *looks sideways at the theory of Rey accidentally killing her parents*), or after her parents died someone who could’ve taken her out of Jakku but didn’t (or couldn’t) do so

Regardless of what we see in TROS, though—reading Rey realize the truth behind those words is so sad. This woman needs: a hug

And it makes me sad too that we’re probably not going to see anything about it in the TROS movie because it hasn’t been mentioned in TFA or TLJ outside the books *sigh*

But well, if the TLJ novels adressed this when the TFA and TLJ movies didn’t, I think there’s a high chance that the TROS novelizations will do, too

[greyjedireylo]

me if episode IX opens and Ben is Supreme Leader for approximately 2 minutes like I’ve been speculating for months:

[getoffthesoapbox]

Look who got her ticket to see the first showing of The Last Jedi on opening night?! Even snagged a single seat! Go me! 

[thisloveisredx]

god take me back to the pure excitement when the pics of Adam & Daisy came out pre TLJ… the absolute theorizing that went on. what a time.

[darth-schism]

Evidence to Suggest that Luke was NOT all that he seemed in TLJ

Luke Skywalker may have isolated himself because of his guilt/depression. But I also believe he did it for practical reasons, and that his “totally given up” act, was just that, an act. Evidence for this Head-cannon/interpretive take:

1. He made a map to his location

Not only that, but it was so specific, it was literally called “The Map to Skywalker.” The only way it would have gotten a name as tailored as that is if someone else had found him before Rey, or, if he told people about it himself. In any event, to whatever varying degree, Luke wanted to be found and/or influence the galaxy around him.

One piece of the map was  tossed around to all sorts of corners of the galaxy, while the rest of it was entrusted to R2D2. 

2. This was a deliberate combo to serve two different purposes

          - Keep Snoke distracted: The entirety of TFA was Kylo and Snoke obsessing over Luke’s location. Their preoccupation with it was evident and, instead of letting them focus on relentlessly attacking the New Republic, Luke gave them a reason to go on wild goose chases. Consider that Snoke doesn’t go ‘all in’ on trying to destroy the Resistance until after he realizes he lost the race to get to Skywalker. Which shows just how much stock he had put into that singular Jedi. What’s more, even if they had succeeded, they’d only have a useless fraction with no reference as to where in the galaxy Luke’s secret location actually was.      

          - Meanwhile, R2D2 would also play the role of a “given up/powered down” hero: But we see that, soon as the coast is clear, and some plot heroes arrive with the map, he assessed the situation, turned on, and sent them right to Skywalker. I think it’s safe to say that R2D2 was merely in ‘sleep mode,’ as opposed to ‘shut down.’ However, despite all this, the element of being powered down/unassuming was still crucial because... 

3. Snoke made it abundantly clear that when he found Skywalker, he’d blow up the entire landmass he was found, or even theorized to be, on

Luke would never put a population of innocents at risk of complete annihilation just because someone might to recognize him at a local market. So it’s no wonder he chose a place as isolated as he did (On top of that, considering his critical stance towards the Jedi Order by 28ish ABY, it wouldn’t necessarily be a heartbreak to him if the island did end up getting destroyed, or one to anyone else really, because of how obscure/unknown it was...or so he convinced himself).

4. He was picking his battles

If Luke Skywalker wanted to be found. Then why was he so dismissive of Rey? There’s no solid evidence here (aside from the whole existence of the map scheme), but I think there’s good reason to believe that Luke’s instant stand-offish behavior is one of caution and assessment not dissimilar how how Yoda and Kenobi put up an initial façade when they were discovered in exile (but more on that later). In any event, this approach would give him the means to offer personalized help to those who ended up on his doorstep. It honestly didn’t take Luke long to go from tossing his father’s lightsaber, to offering Rey the three lessons she needed to understand the force better. Although I believe Rey’s visit to Luke was far different than what others had probably been but (again) more on that later.

5. He was able leave anytime he wanted

The very clear image of Luke’s submerged X-Wing in the ocean painted a picture of cut ties, and a “no going back” stance. However, it wasn’t the first time that starfighter had been at the bottom of a water bed, and clearly it wasn’t the last. I’m inclined to believe that this is another part of Luke’s deliberate presentation of a hero who had lost all hope. But all speculation aside, there was nothing to physically stop Luke from leaving that island whenever he wanted. There’s nothing to say that he didn’t break form/character operate to find a way to undermine Snoke further.

6. He was actively protecting others close to him

There was a reason Luke getting Grogu at the end of Season 2 of The Mandalorian caused such a stir in Disney, and caused Kennedy to go for Faverau’s throat. All “who’s idea was who’s” arguments aside. At the end of the day it created two possible outcomes for this element of the Star Wars franchise: Either Grogu died in Kylo’s attack. Or there were survivors. Since killing the money making Baby Yoda isn’t necessarily on Disney’s to do list, it’s a reasonable bet that he survives the slaughter (unless he’s returned to Din’s side before Kylo goes ballistic, in which case he avoids it all together). But even if that does happen, this theory still holds a little water). Luke lying low, and operating in secret may have been the only way he was keeping himself, the galaxies citizens, and his few remaining students from getting hit with an orbital strike. 

7. He was never fully disconnected from the force.

Perhaps, somewhat disconnected, but it’s clear that Luke hasn’t cut himself off from the force as much as he, perhaps, wanted to admit. Luke is still able to effortlessly summon a weapon, keep control of the duel between himself and Rey, and gently lower his body to the ground when he loses his footing. Despite his stance on using/taking ownership of the force in TLJ, it seems as though Luke kept just enough around so that he could still fight. This theory is more optimistically minded than some of the others, but I still can’t help but think that Luke kept these reserves of power ready, because he already had to use them more than once during his supposed isolation.

8. Rey’s visit was different than the others who had come before.

“You went straight into the Dark. It offered you something you needed, and you didn’t even try to stop yourself.” 

“I've seen this raw strength only once before, in Ben Solo. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now.”

Other plot heroes/adventurers may have come, gone, or even convinced Luke to help them in secret. So assuming all, or even some, of the above is true, then that means Luke wasn’t just pushing to dismiss Rey, but also disillusion her. I think this is because Rey wasn’t there to get help with a specific mission, rescue, etc, but there to have Luke become the public symbol of hope again. And we’ve already listed the reasons why this couldn’t happen. On top of that, this push was done in a way that directly conflicted with all the “none theorized” reasons Luke had isolated himself. Luke knew he couldn’t accommodate this. He sensed the darkness in Rey. He sensed her connection to Kylo. In many ways his lessons also doubled as a means to properly evaluate Rey, and confirm his suspicions. In any event, all of this brought up an element of his isolation that no one else knew. He already had the, half truth, story as to what happened to his temple well rehearsed. But it was Rey’s visit that dragged out his greatest regret, which was his near attempt to take Ben’s life, due to both the mind bending fear Snoke had manipulated into palce, and the hypocritical, and self destructive Jedi philosophies that had been drilled in to his head. This was the final straw that made him want to destroy the Jedi texts. But it was also the push he needed to find inner peace, and think of the means to make one last public appearance, without endangering anyone.  

9. In no interpretation is Luke an attempt child killer 

This is more of a bonus point in nature. I think so many people were caught off guard by the narrative choice Luke undertook in this part of the film, that it painted the whole ordeal in a far more unfavorable light than it actually was. For starters: Ben was no child. He was 23 years old when he fell to the darkside. Luke was saw the images of planetary destruction, and the deaths of friends and family alike at the hands of an adult. But even at that, Luke’s ligthsaber had already lowered, and his face expressing that of shame and sadness, when Ben glances over, and decides to take up his lightsaber, and make the first strike. Luke doesn’t even ignite his lightsaber in response until after Ben swings it. The influence Snoke had over Ben, and the mental attack he lured Luke into suffering, to make this moment come to pass cannot be understated.   

 - This also means that Luke’s isolation lasted only 7 years. Not twenty, not even 10. Just 7. Which is less than half the time both Yoda and Obi Wan imposed on themselves.

10. He was following in the footsteps of his masters

I think Luke’s response to trauma is a little unfair in some ways. Obi Wan and Yoda witnessed genocide, and imposed exile on themselves for twenty years. Now, in film, we know that Obi Wan, while playing the part of a delusional hermit, worked to protect Luke as he grew up on Tatooine, and that Yoda, playing the part of a silly swamp kook, did...something...on Dagobah (?), waited for Luke to grow up so he could train him for a few weeks at most (?). 

Those are two pretty limited things, and yet they don’t catch near as much flack for “abandoning the galaxy to the Empire” as TLJ Luke does, after he also witnessed slaughter, and went into isolation for only 7 years. But, of course, we know Obi Wan did more during his time in the desert, and that Yoda did more during his time in the swamp. So why can’t Luke have also done more while on his island? Everything about the parallels here point to Luke, despite his own misgivings, applying what he learned from his master. All three Jedi isolated themselves because of their personal tragedies. All three greatly reduced their presence in the galaxy. But all three had no choice, and all three still did what they could despite their circumstances.    

11. Luke may have been overcome with grief. But he hadn’t truly changed

Now, I fully admit that this is a very optimistic way of looking at things. But some of these points also have more weight to them than others. I also cannot stress enough that even though I think some of what Luke was doing was an act, I also know it was equally proportional to the very real, emotional reasons, and struggles he faced. I also definitely do NOT think Kennedy/Johnson meant for any of these possible theories to have any validity to them. But with how they are presented, they also can’t be disproven. 

If Favreau doesn’t formally put the sequels in it’s own little pocket universe, then I really hope he takes the opportunity to make something like ^the above^ happen. It could easily be established in one to two episodes in a live action show. Lots of things could be done to make the sequels a more bearable set of movies to watch. And as much as I’m worried that hoping for this is simply too optimistic, at least now there is a justifiable interpretive take that has both in film evidence to support, and a lack of otherwise to refute.  

At the end of the day (and as usual) the important part here is to see that Luke hadn’t given up. Struggling, disillusioned, forced into a tough spot, willingly keeping himself scarce, etc. All bearable. But knowing he hadn’t given up is super important to the character and fanbase, so hopefully we get something that makes that cannon. In any facet really.  

AND IT WOULD GET MARK HAMILL BACK ON SET GODAMNIT! XD

*Reblogged with new gifs and information

[lastoneout]

Well it’s fine if you don’t like the sequel trilogy so long as your criticisms of it don’t amount to racist or sexist talking points or bullshit nitpicking. I loved TLJ because it’s the only Star Wars film which had the balls to be self-aware. TFA was safe and harmless but enjoyable. TROS was a VERY mixed bag.

Oh yeah for sure none of my issues are like that at all. I honestly kinda think the movie did Finn, Poe, and Rose kinda dirty. I feel like they didn't get as much development and they deserved a better B plot.

My main issues were with how they did Luke dirty as hell and how...inconsistent the film felt with TFA. I liked TFA a lot, sure it was safe and nostalgic but I could turn my brain off and have a really fucking good time so I didn't care. But then TLJ just kinda gave up on most of the stuff that film set up, massacred Luke's character, and "subverted" stuff in a way that was jarring and super unpleasant. Like imo the subversions felt like they were punishing the audience for caring about stuff and theorizing a la Sherlock and I hate it when shows and movies pull that shit.

I mean I was a Rey Skywalker truther, I really thought(AND STILL THINK) it would have been amazing if Luke was her dad, there was so much potential there, but they could have subverted it and made her a nobody and not had it feel so...bland and disappointing. Or they just could have like, not set up her past to be important at all?? I dunno, it is very clear to me thinking on the overall plot that there WAS no overall plot or plan and that JJ really does just refuse to come up with answers to any of his mysteries. Star Wars deserved better than all that, and I didn't even see Rise of Skywalker I just couldn't be bothered after I waited so long for TLJ only to be massively disappointed.

Plus it sucked ass that when they tried to "correct" things they just shafted all of the none-white characters even more as if THEY were the problem and not all of the *grabs megaphone* MASSIVE FUCKING PLOT INCONGRUENCIES AND POORLY DONE SUBVERSIONS. Like come on, that's such weak-ass bullshit. Own up to your plot being meh and don't pretend your story's issues are because you focused on your strongest characters.

That's just me tho, I think TLJ had good cinematography all things considered ngl. That's probably the nicest thing I have to say about it though.

[lunarlaurels]

Thinking about children in SW 

not continue generation kids but about the Jedi Academy

How old were Luke’s students and did Kylo kill them directly or did he just lead to the fall of the academy? Did any of them escape? If so did they turn their backs completely on the Force (could some of them be the Knights of Ren)

Going back to Kylo, it’s pretty shocking that after he’s killed his own father and potentially murdered a bunch of peers/children he still hasn’t gone yellow-eyed Sith (not that I want him to). Just goes to show how strong his pull to the Light is  (I guess?)

And then that also brings up the issue of Force Ghosts. Are they going to incorporate all these slain force sensitives- make them accessible through the Force? 

I’m just imagining a scene with Rey coming face to face with this Academy of Force Ghosts and they’re warning her to stay away from Kylo, that he’s a lost cause. One or two of these padawans might even be resentful.

“How come you get to live, but my life was cut short by a beast?!”And just getting angry at her for potentially showing Kylo compassion and even considering he is redeemable. 

How would Rey deal with that guilt, this is assuming she begins to feel for Kylo but is also learning about his past in detail. Not to mention how does Kylo deal with it. Is he not exposed to these Force Ghosts bc they’re part of the Light Side or does he get visited by them? How does he react to them? Maybe they’re just peripheral figures that haunt him. I wonder?

[benperorsolo]

Personally, I never got into the ‘Reylo is reverse Anidala’ theory because Disney was doing everything to erase and invalidate the prequels since 2015. There wasn’t a single moment in TFA or TLJ where Anakin and Padme were mentioned by name or their love was acknowledged. The ST characters only knew of Han/Luke/Leia/Vader because Disney bought this franchise to capitalize on the success of the OT. They weren’t going to write an ‘embarrassing’ PT-style romance again. At least not explicitly.

I was cool with it as a thematic thing (as long as it wasn’t literal reincarnation because........we make fun of the antis for being into incest but then ship the reincarnation of Ben’s grandparents with themselves and their grandson??), and I think in many ways reylo still is reverse anidala-- Ben dies to save Rey, whereas Anakin kills Padme to save himself and his own image of her; Ben succeeds in saving Rey from death, and Anakin doesn’t succeed in saving Padme. 

But I think it was reasonable to think that Disney might have intended it. Everyone keeps cynically acting like for four years, reylos had no reason to think LF planned reylo, and that just wasn’t the case. Hell, it’s canon, it happened, and we successfully predicted that. It was just about the only thing besides bendemption to predict. Things are 20/20 in hindsight, but I still can’t get behind this sudden retrospective cynicism where we make it out like we were theorizing reylo on the basis of zero evidence at all.