#Tam and Linh are East Asian

[homo-beehive]

sometimes i think about keeper of the lost cities (it is my special interest) and go “holy shit how is this a middle grade series”

so here is an incomplete list of things that happen in kotlc that would get a kotlc movie’s rating moved to R (read at your own risk).

kidnapping

torture

horse copulation

graphic violence

graphic birth

unspecified but apparently flavorful cursing

human experimentation

body horror

very detailed depictions of almost-deadly allergic reactions

non-consensual drugging. a lot of it. of CHILDREN

and here is a list of things that i think the US government would hate about kotlc

criticism of government and discussion of how one should handle being in a position of power (you should not enjoy being powerful)

elfin society has a eugenics problem and this is consistently criticized

queer coding isn’t even coding atp marella is GAY gay

and finally, criticisms i have of kotlc.

weird eurocentric beauty standards

tam and linh. great characters. CONSTANTLY fetishized bc they’re asian. sophie calls them k-pop idols, anime characters, etc. from what i can tell, though, they’re vietnamese. LET THEM BE VIETNAMESE WITHOUT COMPARING THEM TO EVERY EAST ASIAN STEREOTYPE

everyone is thin. LITERALLY EVERYONE. why is everyone thin and why does thin equal beautiful. shannon messenger explain your biases challenge

there are SO many poc in the books, but elf culture is shown as a monolith. show the cultural nuances that come from before humans and elves separated. i want to see the human influences in their clothing, hairstyles, accents, vernacular. have elves who have historically lived in china wearing something similar to hanfu. give tam and linh ao dai. give me a nigerian elf with fulani braids. give me culture through style and bodies and voices and music. i want to see it. it’s beautiful and it is NOT shown enough

dex needs more page time.

alden and della are NOT criticized enough. they are complicit. they are part of the problem in the lost cities. they are not all bad, but they are not all good either. CRITICIZE THEM, SHANNON.

[brokendarkfairyempressforever]

So I was staring at the ceiling and

Is everyone in KOTLC rich? Also why is almost everyone white? Like there's mostly white main characters

I don't know why but it hurts couldn't Shannon do more diversity?

I mean I guess dex is supposed to be middle class but even then

We have 2 east asians(Linh and Tam), two black characters(Wylie and Maruca) and 1 south asian (well Rayni aka glimmer will probably be a part of the main crew that's why I'm adding her plus her name sounds south asian and my friend's name is Rayni so maybe I'm biased)

But everyone else is white

I'm pretty sure Dex is middle class or upper middle class but still

Linh, Tam, and Rayni we're well off before life stuff happened to them and then they had to live on their own

Everyone else is extremely well off

I don't know I just wished there was more diversity

Edit: ignore my thoughts on the economy cause lots of people have reminded me their economy is different from ours(please will people stop spamming my ask box)

[multi-fandom-lunatic]

Representation in Keeper of the Lost Cities: A Critical Analysis

NOTE: This essay was written was originally a rant on the KotLC fanbase Discord. I copy-pasted my points into Chat-GPT and asked to make this into essay format. This is an AI assisted piece. Please don't think, however, that my points are any less valid. NOTE: This is also on the Keeper of the Lost Cities reddit.

Please add your thoughts!

Introduction

In discussing representation within Shannon Messenger's Keeper of the Lost Cities (KOTLC) series, it's imperative to address the nuances and complexities of how various groups are portrayed. While the series enjoys widespread popularity, it also reveals significant shortcomings in the representation of People of Color (POC), LGBTQ+ individuals, and other marginalized groups. This essay explores these issues, highlighting both the problematic aspects and potential areas for improvement.

Representation of People of Color (POC)

One of the most glaring issues in KOTLC is the limited and stereotypical portrayal of POC characters. The primary POC characters in the series—Tam, Linh, Wylie, and Maruca—are few, especially considering the statistical likelihood of a more diverse population. Even more concerning is how these characters are represented. For instance, upon their introduction, Tam and Linh are compared to anime characters and K-pop idols in Sophie's mind. This reinforces harmful generalizations and stereotypes about East Asians, which is both insensitive and problematic.

Moreover, despite elves in KOTLC not having countries or distinct cultures beyond "elven culture," which is portrayed in a predominantly European manner, there are inconsistencies in how racial representation is handled. For example, official artwork by Laura Hollingsworth depicts the Song family in front of an Asian temple, despite the series' premise that elves do not adhere to human cultural practices. This selective representation is problematic and reflects a lack of cultural sensitivity.

Stereotyping and Racism

Tam and Linh's characters fall into several Asian stereotypes. They have strict parents, a common trope for East Asian characters, and Linh is depicted as a bubbly, sweet girl without much depth, until her sudden, seemingly random outburst in "Stellarlune." These characterizations do not allow for the full depth and complexity that POC characters deserve.

The portrayal of gnomes in the series is even more troubling. Described as brown-skinned, unpaid workers who do manual labor for the elves, this depiction carries disturbing parallels to historical and contemporary issues of racial exploitation. The gnomes are presented as happy to serve their white, elf masters, which echoes deeply racist narratives. Despite being able to leave, the gnomes have no viable alternatives, essentially forcing them into servitude.

If Shannon Messenger chose not to include queer characters, it wouldn't necessarily be harmful, just lacking positive representation. However, employing Laura Hollingsworth (LH), known for her homophobic views, exacerbates the issue. LH, a conservative Christian, has openly opposed queer identities and followed white supremacist accounts. Her biases are evident in her work. By continuing to collaborate with LH, Messenger not only excludes queer representation but also tacitly supports an artist who opposes it. She has even addressed this. This perpetuates homophobia, and Messenger should be held accountable for her choices in supporting such a figure within the KOTLC series.

LGBTQ+ Representation

As an LGBTQ+ individual, the lack of queer representation in KOTLC is particularly disappointing. While it is not inherently homophobic to exclude queer characters, in a series as character-focused as KOTLC, it becomes a notable omission. Early books could have integrated queer characters naturally, but introducing one now might feel forced and tokenistic.

Characters like Linh and Marella have been perceived as queer-coded by some fans, but there is little textual evidence to support this. Queer audiences should not have to read subtext to find representation. Additionally, the series employs an artist, Laura Hollingsworth, who has expressed homophobic views. Shannon Messenger's response to concerns about Hollingsworth's involvement was minimal and failed to address the deeper issues.

Body Image and Ableism

KOTLC also perpetuates harmful beauty standards. The elves are depicted as perfect, which often translates to being slender, muscular, and fitting Western beauty ideals. This can negatively impact young readers who already struggle with body image. Additionally, the series lacks representation of disabled characters, implicitly suggesting that physical perfection is an elven trait, thereby excluding those who do not fit this mold.

Conclusion

In conclusion, Shannon Messenger's Keeper of the Lost Cities series falls short in its representation of POC, LGBTQ+ individuals, and other marginalized groups. The series reinforces stereotypes, perpetuates harmful beauty standards, and fails to include diverse identities in meaningful ways. Addressing these issues requires a commitment to sensitivity and inclusion, such as hiring sensitivity readers and reconsidering collaborations with problematic artists. By doing so, Messenger could create a more inclusive and representative world that resonates with all readers.

[aphelea]

currently imagining the kotlc movie people, in an attempt to keep the movie as accurate to the source material as possible, casting for tam and linh by getting an actor from every single east AND southeast asian country and having them each rotate out between scenes. nobody knows where they're supposed to be from and we never will

[deweyducks]

can someone please tell me what language tam and linh song speak PLEASE

[everliving-everblaze]

GUYS

If we go off of their residence locations, we have canon accents for the characters (...other than the generic Enlightened Language accent)

Ruewens - California

Vackers - Florida

Sencens - Canada (Candleshade) or Australia (Shores of Solace)

Dizznees - Canadian

Songs - Middle of the Pacific, so you could go east Asian or west American. But also, Linh and Tam now live with Tiergan (see below)

Tiergan/Wylie - South Africa

Redeks - Chile

Veks - Sweden

Quinlin/Livvy - Something Mediterranean since they’re under that sea

[kotlc-posts]

KOTLC IS GETTING A MOVIE! Let’s discuss:

I worry about this movie. I worry that the issues that we’ve seen as the series goes on will leak onto our TV screens

The first book really has no representation. The whole series has no canon LGBT characters, and I doubt we will be getting any because of a *certain* illustrator

There’s really no major characters of color besides Wylie (who is mixed) until we meet Tam and Linh in book four

Making sure you’re being inclusive while also walking the line of staying true to the original canon is hard, and I hope the canon doesn’t get in the way of inclusive casting. I also want to see inclusive representation behind the scenes as well

I also worry that the issues that get more prevalent as the books go on will seep into the movies if we get a series out of it. I’m worried that Fitz’s anger issues will be romanticized instead of addressed in a healthy way. I’m worried that our favorite side characters will become irrelevant. I’m worried about one dimensional characters.

However, the movie does give us a chance to fix these problems if it is done well. Lots of us would like to see Tiergan and Prentice, or maybe even Marella and Linh, together and if we can’t get that in the books maybe we can get it on screen. Maybe we can see more representation. I’d love to see members of the collective, council, foxfire staff, etc.. be cast as people of color, and not just light skinned people of color. I’d like to see not just Black and East Asian representation, but also Native Americans, Indians, Arab people, and South Americans.

In conclusion, Ben Affleck, don’t screw this up ( and if you’re looking for someone who’d dream of auditioning for Biana, hmu ;) )

[poblog552]

7 In Vietnamese

7 In Vietnamese

Number 7 In Vietnamese

7 Billion In Vietnamese

5 In Vietnamese

7 Course Beef Vietnamese In Westminster

7 Course In Vietnamese

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Numeral systemsHindu–Arabic numeral systemEast Asian

Chinese

EuropeanAmericanAlphabeticFormerPositional systems by baseNon-standard positional numeral systems

Bijective numeration (1)

Signed-digit representation (Balanced ternary)

mixed (factorial)

Complex-base system (2i)

Non-integer representation (φ)

List of numeral systems

7 In Vietnamese

Historically Vietnamese has two sets of numbers: one is etymologically native Vietnamese; the other uses Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary. In the modern language the native Vietnamese vocabulary is used for both everyday counting and mathematical purposes. The Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary is used only in fixed expressions or in Sino-Vietnamese words. This is somewhat analogous to the way in which Latin and Greek numerals are used in modern English (e.g., the bi- in bicycle). Sino-Vietnamese words are also used for units of ten thousand or above, where native vocabulary was lacking.

Concept(edit)

Vietnam Expo uses online booths amid COVID-19 Vietnam Plus aquatic product exports predicted to hit 8.6 bln USD Vietnam Plus 09:44 JinkoSolar Successfully Supplied 541MW Tiger Mono facial to Xuan Thien Ea-Sub Project Phase I in Vietnam AsiaOne 09:23.

Press Shift or either Ctrl + Alt or AltGr for additional Vietnamese letters that are not visible on the keyboard. For mobile phones and tablets, touch and hold inside the text area to copy the text. You can then paste the text in any app such as Facebook, Twitter, email, or search app.

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Among the languages of the Chinese cultural sphere, Japanese and Korean both use two numerical systems, one native and one Chinese-based. The Chinese-based vocabulary is the one in common use. In Vietnamese, on the other hand, the Chinese-based system is not in everyday use. Numbers from 1 to 1000 are expressed using native Vietnamese vocabulary, and only a few numbers (such as 1,000,000, triệu) are based on Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary.

In the modern Vietnamese writing system, numbers are written in the romanized script Chữ quốc ngữ or Arabic numerals. Prior to the 20th century Vietnam officially used Classical Chinese as a written language, using Chinese characters to write Sino-Vietnamese numbers. For non-official purposes Vietnamese also had a writing system known as Hán-Nôm. Under this system, Sino-Vietnamese numbers were written in Hán tự (Chinese characters) and native vocabulary was written in a system of modified Chinese characters known as Chữ Nôm.

Basic figures(edit)

Basic features of the Vietnamese numbering system include the following:

Unlike other sinoxenic numbering systems, modern Vietnamese separates place values in thousands instead of myriads. For example, '123123123' is recorded in Vietnamese as 'một trăm hai mươi ba triệu một trăm hai mươi ba nghìn (ngàn) một trăm hai mươi ba, or '123 million, 123 thousand and 123',(1) whilst in Chinese, Japanese and Korean, the same number is rendered '1億2312萬3123' (1 hundred-million, 2312 ten-thousand and 3123).

The Sino-Vietnamese numbers are not in frequent use in modern Vietnamese. Sino-Vietnamese numbers such as 'vạn／萬' 'ten thousand', 'ức／億' 'hundred-thousand' and 'triệu／兆' 'million' are used for figures exceeding one thousand, but with the exception of 'triệu' are becoming less commonly used. Number values for these words follow usage in Ancient China, with each numeral increasing tenfold in digit value, 億 being the number for 105, 兆 for 106, et cetera. (See Chinese numerals#Large numbers). As a result, the value of 'triệu' differs from modern Chinese 兆.

Outside of fixed Sino-Vietnamese expressions, Sino-Vietnamese words are usually used in combination with native Vietnamese words. For instance, 'mười triệu' combines native 'mười' and Sino-Vietnamese 'triệu'.

The following table is an overview of the basic Vietnamese numeric figures, provided in both Native and Sino-Viet forms. For each number, the form that is more commonly used is highlighted. Where there are differences between the Hanoi and Saigon dialects of Vietnamese, readings between each are differentiated below within the notes.

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NumberSino-VietnameseNative VietnameseNotesChữ quốc ngữHán tựChữ quốc ngữChữ Nôm0không • linh空 • 〇（零）(none)(none)The foreign-language borrowed word 'zêrô (zêro, dê-rô)' is often used in physics-related publications, or colloquially.1nhất一（壹）một𠬠2nhị二（貳）hai𠄩3tam三（叄）ba𠀧4tứ四（肆）bốn𦊚In the ordinal number system, the Sino-Viet 'tư／四' is more systematic; as the digit 4 appears after the number 20 when counting upwards, the Sino-Viet 'tư／四' is more commonly used.5ngũ五（伍）năm𠄼Within the Hanoi dialect, five may also be pronounced as 'lăm' whilst as part of a two-digit number ending in 5 (such as 15, 25, 35..) to avoid possible confusion with homonyms of năm, an example being 'năm/𢆥', meaning 'year'.6lục六（陸）sáu𦒹7thất七（柒）bảy𦉱In some Vietnamese dialects, it is also read as 'bẩy'.8bát八（捌）tám𠔭9cửu九（玖）chín𠃩10thập十（拾）mười • một chục𨒒Chục is used colloquially. 'Ten eggs' may be called một chục trứng rather than mười trứng. It's also used in compounds like mươi (e.g.: hai mươi/chục 'twenty').100bách百（佰）trăm • một trăm𤾓 • 𠬠𤾓The Sino-Viet 'bách／百' is commonly used as a morpheme (in compound words), and is rarely used in the field of mathematics as a digit. Example: 'bách phát bách trúng／百發百中'.1,000thiên千（仟）nghìn (ngàn) • một nghìn (ngàn)𠦳 • 𠬠𠦳The Sino-Viet 'thiên／千' is commonly used as a morpheme, but rarely used in a mathematical sense. Example: 'thiên kim／千金'. 'nghìn' is the standard reading in Northern Vietnam, whilst 'ngàn' is the pronunciation in the South.10,000vạn • một vạn萬 • 𠬠萬mười nghìn (ngàn)𨒒𠦳The 'một／𠬠' within 'một vạn／𠬠萬' is a Native Vietnamese (intrinsic term) morpheme.100,000ức • một ức • mười vạn(2)億 • 𠬠億 • 𨒒萬trăm nghìn (ngàn) • một trăm nghìn (ngàn)𤾓𠦳 • 𠬠𤾓𠦳The 'mười／𨒒' and 'một／𠬠' within 'mười vạn／𨒒萬' and 'một ức／𠬠億' are Native Vietnamese (intrinsic term) morphemes.1,000,000triệu • một triệu • một trăm vạn(3)兆 • 𠬠兆 • 𠬠𤾓萬(none)(none)The 'một／𠬠' and 'trăm／𤾓' within 'một triệu／𠬠兆' and 'một trăm vạn／𠬠𤾓萬' are Native Vietnamese (intrinsic term) morphemes.10,000,000mười triệu𨒒兆(mixed usage of Sino-Viet and Native Viet systems)(mixed usage of Sino-Viet and Native Viet systems)The 'mười／𨒒' within 'mười triệu／𨒒兆' is a Native Vietnamese (intrinsic term) morpheme.100,000,000trăm triệu𤾓兆(mixed usage of Sino-Viet and Native Viet systems)(mixed usage of Sino-Viet and Native Viet systems)The 'trăm／𤾓' within 'trăm triệu／𤾓兆' is a Native Vietnamese (intrinsic term) morpheme.1,000,000,000tỷ秭(4)(none)(none)1012nghìn (ngàn) tỷ𠦳秭(mixed usage of Sino-Viet and Native Viet systems)(mixed usage of Sino-Viet and Native Viet systems)1015triệu tỷ兆秭(none)(none)1018tỷ tỷ秭秭(none)(none)

Number 7 In Vietnamese

7 Billion In Vietnamese

Other figures(edit)

NumberChữ quốc ngữHán-NômNotes11mười một𨒒𠬠12mười hai • một tá𨒒𠄩 • 𠬠打'một tá／𠬠打' is often used within mathematics-related occasions, to which 'tá' represents the foreign loanword 'dozen'.14mười bốn • mười tư𨒒𦊚 • 𨒒四'mười tư／𨒒四' is often used within literature-related occasions, to which 'tư／四' forms part of the Sino-Viet vocabulary.15mười lăm𨒒𠄻Here, five is pronounced 'lăm', or also 'nhăm' by some speakers in the north.19mười chín𨒒𠃩20hai mươi • hai chục𠄩𨒒 • 𠄩𨔿21hai mươi mốt𠄩𨒒𠬠For numbers which include the digit 1 from 21 to 91, the number 1 is pronounced 'mốt'.24hai mươi tư𠄩𨒒四When the digit 4 appears in numbers after 20 as the last digit of a 3-digit group, it is more common to use 'tư／四'.25hai mươi lăm𠄩𨒒𠄻Here, five is pronounced 'lăm'.50năm mươi • năm chục𠄼𨒒 • 𠄼𨔿When '𨒒' (10) appears after the number 20, the pronunciation changes to 'mươi'.101một trăm linh một • một trăm lẻ một𠬠𤾓零𠬠 • 𠬠𤾓𥘶𠬠Although 'một trăm linh một／𠬠𤾓零𠬠' is the standard form, it is more commonly used in Northern Vietnam, where 'linh／零' forms part of the Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary; 'một trăm lẻ một／𠬠𤾓𥘶𠬠' is more commonly used in the South.1001một nghìn (ngàn) không trăm linh một • một nghìn (ngàn) không trăm lẻ một𠬠𠦳空𤾓零𠬠 • 𠬠𠦳空𤾓𥘶𠬠When the hundreds digit is occupied by a zero, these are expressed using 'không trăm／空𤾓'.10055mười nghìn (ngàn) không trăm năm mươi lăm𨒒𠦳空𤾓𠄼𨒒𠄻

When the number 1 appears after 20 in the unit digit, the pronunciation changes to 'mốt'.

When the number 4 appears after 20 in the unit digit, it is more common to use Sino-Viet 'tư／四'.

When the number 5 appears after 10 in the unit digit, the pronunciation changes to 'lăm'.

When 'mười' appears after 20, the pronunciation changes to 'mươi'.

Ordinal numbers(edit)

5 In Vietnamese

Vietnamese ordinal numbers are generally preceded by the prefix 'thứ', which is a Sino-Viet word which corresponds to '次'. For the ordinal numbers of one and four, the Sino-Viet readings 'nhất／一' and 'tư／四' are more commonly used; two is occasionally rendered using the Sino-Viet 'nhì／二'. In all other cases, the native Vietnamese number is used.

Ordinal numberChữ quốc ngữHán-Nôm1stthứ nhất次一2ndthứ hai • thứ nhì次𠄩 • 次二3rdthứ ba次𠀧4ththứ tư次四5ththứ năm次𠄼nththứ 'n'次「n」

Footnotes(edit)

^Triệu means one million in Vietnamese, but the Chinese number that is the source of the Vietnamese word, '兆' (Mandarin zhào), is officially rendered as 1012 in Taiwan, and commonly designated as 106 in the People's Republic of China (See various scale systems).

^Tu dien Han Viet Thieu Chuu(permanent dead link)：「(1): ức, mười vạn là một ức.」

^Tu dien Han Viet Thieu Chuu(permanent dead link)：「(3): triệu, một trăm vạn.」

^Hán Việt Từ Điển Trích Dẫn 漢越辭典摘引：「Một ngàn lần một triệu là một tỉ 秭 (*). Tức là 1.000.000.000. § Ghi chú: Ngày xưa, mười vạn 萬 là một ức 億, một vạn ức là một tỉ 秭.」

7 Course Beef Vietnamese In Westminster

See also(edit)

7 Course In Vietnamese

Retrieved from 'https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vietnamese_numerals&oldid=990010037'

[kotlcsalt-blog]

I was going to write a salty post about Tam and Linh but now I feel that scouring the few sentences Shannon has written about Tam and Linh for things to rant about would be counterproductive. Basically my problems with Tam and Linh (and the Asian representation in KOTLC in general) can be summed up with:

Tam and Linh are obviously East Asian coded, but there are no aspects of Asian culture in the books that would allow their characters to make sense. They could have easily been white and their characters would not have changed one bit.

Tam and Linh’s names and descriptions are appropriation because they blend several different Asian cultures. (As in using “K-pop idols” and “anime” in the same sentence.)

Eternalia is RIGHT SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF MCFREAKIN’ CHINA. Yet everything about it, from the architecture to the people, is unapologetically Western.

That’s basically it. No need for a long post.

—Mod Sqmmie

[dexdizznee]

Do you have any headcanons for the characters?

!!! yes i do indeed!!

sophie: demigirl/panromatic greysexual/white

dex: demiboy/questioning (bi/pan)/mixed race (white/melanesian) (race hc creds to siocynder)

fitz: trans boy/pansexual/mixed race (latinix/asian)

biana: cis girl/gay/mixed race (latinix/asian)

keefe: cis boy/pansexual/white

linh: trans girl/panromanic asexual/east asian

tam: demiboy/biromantic greysexual/east asian

wylie: trans boy/pansexual/black