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lord-squiggletits · 9 months

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On the MegOP fandom trend of saying "Optimus should apologize to Megatron"

(Speaking specifically for IDW1, though it applies to a lot of MegOP especially ones that do continuity soup with heavy reference to IDW1)

I was talking to a friend in DMs and they mentioned a common headcanon/fanfic trope that I also concurred with, and both of us said it's something that bothers us: a common take in the MegOP fandom goes basically along the lines of "If Optimus had just apologized to Megatron, the war would've ended" (or other variants including "if he'd tried harder to understand Megatron/work in collaboration with him").

And firstly, this is incorrect for a number of reasons:

There were attempts at peace negotiations during the war, but they fell through. So Optimus WAS trying to work with Megatron to the point of participating in formal diplomatic meetings.

Optimus tried multiple times on page to convince Megatron to just stop fighting and work with him for peace (Autocracy, Chaos Theory) that Megatron rejected. Given that these on-page examples take place at the start of the war and at the end of the war respectively, it makes sense that Optimus asking Megatron for collaboration is something he was trying/willing to do the entire time. So again, Optimus was always willing AND ATTEMPTING to work with Megatron and find a joint solution

Even before the war when Optimus was still Orion, he was very explicitly inspired by Megatron's writing and names Megatron as one of the people who "opened his eyes" to the wrongs of Cybertronian society. So how is it that people claim "the war went on for too long because Optimus never tried to understand Megatron" when OP literally named Megatron as one of his biggest idols, thus implying that OP does understand Megatron's ideals

But the primary purpose of this post wasn't to defend Optimus, actually. Even though I personally think Optimus did plenty (dare I say, everything) to try to end the war, there are some who may still think otherwise, so instead of arguing about whether Optimus did "enough", or who should apologize to whom, or who "deserves the blame" for starting/continuing the war, I'd actually rather talk about this:

No matter who is most "to blame" for the war, it's my firm belief that neither Megatron nor Optimus would even expect/demand the other to apologize to them at all.

On Megatron's side, he would never seek to judge Optimus negatively for the decisions to the point of saying "you wronged me, apologize." Whether it's evil Megatron who doesn't care about atrocities and revels in an opportunity to expose Optimus as a hypocrite, or post-war/Autobot Megatron who knows that his own evil actions are irredeemable, the idea of Megatron judging Optimus and demanding an apology for the war specifically strikes me as out-of-character. Why would Megatron demand or even want an apology from Optimus when Megatron knows fully well that he has his own sins to bear, he prolonged the war for his own selfish/material gain, and that he is responsible for an untold amount of suffering? Demanding an apology would imply that Megatron sees himself as the wronged party and Optimus as the wrongdoer, but by the end of the war, Megatron is too aware of his own part in the war to ever demand such a thing of Optimus. Even if he DID think that Optimus was "equally to blame" for the war (which he doesn't/wouldn't, btw), Megatron's own feelings of guilt would prevent him from trying to seek the petty satisfaction of the moral high ground or making Optimus beg for his forgiveness.

Additionally, Megatron knows Optimus very well as a person: he knows that the position of leadership is full of "loneliness [and] agonizing self-doubt" for Optimus (Chaos Theory) and that "when Optimus hurts others, he hurts himself" (MTMTE). Another reason that Megatron wouldn't demand nor want an apology from Optimus is because Megatron knows Optimus so well that he already knows that being a war leader fills Optimus with immense guilt and suffering. Given that Megatron knows about Optimus' self-doubt and guilt, why would he even need an apology when he already knows how much Optimus regrets the war and desperately wishes/wished for it to end?

Then, as established in the previous paragraphs, Optimus is too full of guilt for his part in the war (both before it started and in being unable to stop it sooner) to demand an apology from Megatron. Again, demanding an apology would put Optimus in an implied position of moral superiority and/or victimhood, but Optimus doesn't see himself as morally superior or as a victim (or rather, he sees himself as being responsible for these bad things happening and internalizes this as a duty to do better/fix wrongdoings). In other words, Megatron and Optimus both share this view of themselves and each other: Their hands are so dirty, and they both feel such guilt over this, and they know each other well enough to know that the other feels this way as well. Because both of them feel blame for the war and are acutely aware of their own flaws/part in suffering, both of them feel far too responsible for the war happening for them to ever blame their archnemesis for "not trying harder" or "being responsible for the war."

Hell, if you even look at the socio-political climate of Cybertron before the war started, neither Megatron nor Optimus were the ones who put this conflict into motion. The corrupt legacy of the Primes, Functionism, class issues-- all of these things existed before Megatron and Optimus did. Even once they started doing things like writing about social issues (M) or fighting against the Senate (OP), both of them were "underlings" in sense that they weren't leaders:

Megatron's writings may have inspired the Decepticon movement, but that movement existed as an independent entity with its own leaders and speakers long before Megatron became the "official" ruler of the Decepticons. He wasn't even the leader of the 'Cons until he took control of the gladiator arena and the nonviolent sections of the Decepticons were (presumably) subsumed into the underground, exploitative battle culture that Megatron created.

Optimus-as-Orion was a police officer to start, but even once he started going against the Senate, he mainly worked in collaboration with others like Senator Shockwave and Zeta (later Zeta Prime), who he either saw as his idols or who were literally superior to him in rank due to government/military structures.

So with this in mind, even from a social level, while Megatron and Optimus may have been "catalysts" of a sort that caused the war to escalate to an outright planetary/galactic level, the scenario is too complex to solely lay the blame for the war at either of their feet. I'm not confident in saying that Megatron/Optimus would explicitly think of this when talking to each other, but what I'm trying to say is that M/OP were just catalysts in a long chain of brewing tension that exploded into a war. Even if one could claim that one of them "started" or "escalated" the war, the social issues that caused the war and the positions of power that allowed them to become leaders in the first place were falling into place before either of them actually BECAME leaders.

In other words, this shared fate of being the final reaction that exploded a societal conflict into outright war... Megatron and Optimus both have that in common. And because of this, I really don't think either of them would even think to ask the other to apologize because they're both in such similar positions, with such similar feelings of guilt and responsibility, that they understand each other's feelings without words. To demand an apology would be akin to taking that shared vulnerability/guilt and stepping on it, attempting to claim that one is right/superior and the other is wrong/inferior, and that the inferior one needs to grovel and take responsibility for the bad things that happened.

#squiggposting #idw megop #idk if this'll get me hate or not but it's something i think about a lot #and verbalizing it to that friend in DMs helped me put into words why that common fanon take bothers me #also. hot take but if any 'apologies' are necessary then it's M who should be apologizing to OP #the war may be both of their faults but M is the one who explicitly did/said things just to hurt OP and break his spirit #i'm tired of ppl who don't understand (or at least don't discuss) how hurt OP is and how he deserves recogniztion of his feelings too #megop #then again this fanon take may just be a consequence of continuity soup culture #where ppl don't have to acknowledge specific things that M or OP did bc they can just selectively include or not include details from canon #so like. i guess in their continuity soup continuties their fanon is technically correct #but in terms of the source material which is the one shared experience we all have and the common language we derive fanon from #this fanon is very incorrect. or at least i hope i've managed to argue that it's incorrect #anyways the thesis of megop is that they're equals and opposites who are inextricably tied to each other #fanon that tries to place the blame on one or castigate one of them is missing the point of megop #the point is that they're equal. equally strong and charismatic and amazing. and equally culpable #even if they're not literally equally responsible for idw megop at least they at least both FEEL responsible #and i don't think idw megops are the type to mince words about who's 'more responsible'#they're both depressed old men who hate themselves and regret basically their whole lives. why would they judge each other like that

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acearohippo · 1 year

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Mermay's over, but I'm not done with it! Anyway mermaid Tang Xuan Au where Tang Xuan is a octopus based mermaid and Li Ling is like a rich aristocrat. They meet when they are kids and become best friends then Tang Xuan goes away. So a few years down Li Ling is an adult and thinks he made it up till Tang Xuan shows up again. Lewis is also going to be in this idea (cause he deserves it) but I don't have an exact idea. I'm thinking sailor who was friends with Xuan and Ling when younger and also has to go away but stayed in contact with Tang Xuan

You put down Octupus!Merman!Tang Xuan, solid as octopus are know for their flexibility and adaptability, but I raise you WingedFish!merman!Tang Xuan, specifically Four Winged Flying Fish. Fast, sleek, [small,] and can perform decent feats of acrobatics when it launches itself out if the water and into the air. They use their ability to speed boost to outmanoeuvre predators, so they're agile too!

Lewis would be a legend, spread in multiple small towns and isolated villages, as a pirate who shows no mercy to other ships that cross his territory, his wrath setting ships ablaze with a terrifying plume of fire that the townsfolk can see clearly from the comforts of their beach. The screams of these tortured sailors travel with the wind from their emblazed ship, providing easy fodder to scare unruly children into doing their chores and listening to their elders.

In reality, Lewis is in a petty sibling cat-and-mousrle game with Bonnie, Lewis actually being part of the Western King's admiral fleet and trying to catch up to his Pirate!Sister before the Royal Navals find her. She smuggles herself onto pirate ships, in the hopes of joining a crew and going on bloody adventures, but since she's a bit too... Excitable... And aggressive... And bloodthirsty... The Royal Naval fleet always gets involved, and Lewis is almost always there to at least rangle her off the ship. He is fine with his sister's dreams, he just wishes they were a tad less violent so he didn't have to lose sleep over her potentially getting caught and sent to the gallows.

With that being said, Bonnie is a bit of a legend herself, among the pirates, as her figure holding a crude, hodge podge farming scythe in one hand and a ball of fire (actually a lit flask) in the other, is the omen before their ship explodes and they're left to die a slow death. She appears out of nowhere and vanishes just as abruptly too.

Then everything you said is happening between our two boys, with the added spice that Li Ling goes off to find his friend, with the idea to find this Legend and join his crew, so that there will be no rules stopping them and no eyes and ears reporting back to his family. Of course, he hops on his Best Friend's™ ship, Lewis, not realising that this man is the Legend and Lewis can only keep a poker face and act like this Fire Fist legend is someone he's met rather than himself.

#the hippo speaks #dislyte #li ling dislyte #tang xuan dislyte #lewis dislyte #btw the fire fist name comes from witnesses watching him and his sister playing hot potato with active flasks and wildly exaggerating #Tang Xuan knows Lewis because they reenacted the little mermaid accidentally on one of Lewis' attempts to grab his sister #he fell overboard smacking his head on a cannon and Tang Xuan had jumped out of the water to prevent him further injuring himself #honestly i feel like tang yun would make for a better octopus merman #they're intelligent but shy creatures too #excellent with camoflauging and tricking predators #he hated that his brother always went off exploring and made the dangerous decision to talk to the Sea Witches to find a solution #anesidora nicole and kara are only too happy to get a new subject to test their spells and potions on #they impressed their father as well #hyde has never been so proud of his kids' ambitions and success #tang yun is forming a legend of his own as a kraken like entity that destroys lighthouses ships buoys anything manmade #it's cause he's following his brother in secret #the irony is that tang xuan is searching for him since he's disappeared #thanks OP for this lovely little au #i hope your pillow is always cold when you sleep #the hippo responds #the hippo tags

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