#WHERES THE DISCOURSE AT COME ON RABID

[dorkshadows]

The Writeup

Thanks for the interest! As promised, I've come out of retirement for one (1) day to do this writeup about the intense things going on in the Nezha 2 fandom.

Once more, this is NOT about the people who happened to watch the movie, the people who are just interested in box office stats, the people who really enjoyed the movie, or the people who just really admire Nezha. This will be about the fandom fandom, the truly invested, the elaborate fanons behind certain ships that will make you go "wait what?", the rabid Ao Guang discourse that will also make you go "wait what?," the brainrot (affectionate) in its purest unfiltered form. This is a post about brainrot for those also suffering from brainrot.

This is a collection of patterns mainly from lofter, but also from douyin, weibo, bilibili, and xhs (I'm grouping everyone together because most artists/authors repost to multiple sites or have their content shared on multiple sites, so everyone ends up looking at the same things if they follow the relevant tags on each site). I didn't filter out or blacklist a single tag. I stared directly into the sun to collect this information!

Disclaimer: I genuinely have no idea how to warn for some of the things mentioned here, so just a blanket note of caution- if you click "read more," you are prepared to read about anything and everything. If you are OK with all this, then- let's go! 命由我不由天!

The movie has been out in China in for roughly 3 weeks. In those 3 weeks, all of this has happened in the deepest layers of fandom.

General patterns:

I can't speak for other site stats, but at least on Lofter, Nezha/Ao Bing as a ship is #1 and #2 trending (as Oubing and Bingzha respectively) out of all fandoms and topics on Lofter. But curiously, Ao Guang (#8 trending) and Shen Gongbao (#9 trending) are more popular as individual characters than Nezha and Ao Bing. The latter is noteworthy because Shen Gong Gong's tag was pretty barren circa 2019.

Some Oubing fans have decided that they don't have enough oubing content so they've started shipping Oubing.... from the 1979 movie. This is also in the top 10 trending. Their inspiration comes from this advert.

Ao Guang vocally disapproves of his son dating Nezha, but he can't do anything about it. The real victim here!

Any pairing you can think of exists. Any pairing.

Character/Reader fics exist for everyone in the main cast except Wuliang Shenweng and Taiyi Zhenren

There's a vibrant self-shipping community again for everyone except Wuliang and Taiyi

Lots of M-preg

CEO Ao Guang is common in modern AUs

Nezha is usually in his powered up form in Oubing/Bingzha content, but in his gremlin form in content focused on anyone else

Lots of "The characters themselves react to watching the movie!" type of stories

Shiji Niang Niang has been shipped with both Taiyi Zhenren and Shen Gongbao. The latter has spawned a meme. There's a comic I won't repost because I don't know who the original artist is, but it's very powerful. It goes like this:

SGB: "Prejudice is like a mountain in people's hearts-" SNN: "So I exist in everyone's hearts? That's beautiful <3"

"Lady Yin LIVES!" AUs aplenty

Wuliang's nickname is "Evil Peach"

Lots and lots and Lots of Shen Gongbao whump

Ao Guang has been separately interpreted as a daddy dom, a malewife, an old guy TM, a himbo, and a baby girl AND as all of those things all at once

Ao Run and Ao Bing are the only dragons considered to be smart

Shen Gongbao tends to have very low self-worth. This comes from a 2019 Jiaozi interview where he directly says our leopard lacks confidence

Any AU you can think of: modern AUs, mafia AUs, republican era AUs, actor AUs, musician AUs, wuxia AUs, this one AU where the Ao family are American senators for no reason, omegaverse, and so on

Lots of Journey to the West (a lot of Black Myth specific ones especially) and FSYY crossovers

There's a meme about the real Lu Tong using his antlers to attack people in their dreams if they dare make sexual content of him because someone who made "bottom" Lu Tong content claimed they were attacked by him in a dream. Others took this to mean that he only attacks if you make him a bottom. People who interpret him as a "top" claim that they won the lottery and their lives are going great.

Ao Guang and Shen Gongbao are usually on a first name basis. Ao Guang calls Shen Gonbao 公豹兄 (Gongbao Xiong, "Brother Gongbao") and Shen Gongbao calls him "Ao Guang" directly. This is sort-of canon because this is how they address each other in 敖丙传 "The Tale of Ao Bing/Aobing Zhuan". for those who ship it, their ship name is 龙王豹 (longwangbao/ dragon king leopard) *Keep Aobing Zhuan in mind. This will be important towards the wildest part of this writeup.

Now for the elaborate fanon lore behind two specific ships that seemingly came out of nowhere. Everyone knows about oubing, but what about the other popular ships out there? They're absolutely wild, but- HEAR THEM OUT.

DiLong:

This one has its origins from the first movie. 地笼 AKA "Prison Cage/Emperor Dragon." It's a ship based on Tiandi (Emperor of Heaven) x Ao Guang. The Di in "emperor" is pronounced the same as ground "di," which is also the first character that makes up the word "prison." And "long" (dragon) is pronounced the same way as cage (also "long"), hence the ship name.

Some time after Ne Zha (2019) came out, someone pulled out one of Ao Guang's lines and ran with it. It's a quote where he essentially says that even though the dragon clan was loyal to heaven and its emperor, the heavens betrayed and imprisoned them in the sea anyway. This section of fans took this to mean that Tiandi charmed Ao Guang on false pretenses, took advantage of Ao Guang's love for him, and then left him to rot in the eastern sea... after impregnating him with 1-3 kids. And this changed Ao Guang from an innocent beauty into a resentful dragon desperate for vengeance.

Things of note about dilong:

Tiandi 天帝 is NOT the Jade Emperor (Yu Di). Their mythos overlap, but the Emperor of Heaven is considered the supreme ruler of Everything in the universe while the Jade Emperor rules over the three realms. So Tiandi ranks higher than the Jade Emperor. (But he's also a more obscure figure in popular worship if we get technical)

At the time, Ao Guang didn't actually have a name in 2019 canon. So the fans referred to him as 敖广 (that's what the eastern dragon king has always been called, but Nezha 2 reimagines him with a different name that's pronounced similarly: 敖光).

Tiandi's given name, or rather, the name that the fans gave him, is Hao Tian 昊天, which is the actual name of one of the mythological Tiandi's many variations

Tiandi does not appear in either Nezha movie. His entire character (appearance, personality, etc.) is purely built on headcanons. He is usually written as a playboy, a heartless manipulative bastard, a deadbeat dad, an ungrateful power greedy monster, and so on. But he is always written and drawn as #Hot.

Ao Guang gave birth to Ao Bing in the Dilong universe.

As you can tell, this is a very angsty ship that usually ends in anger and suffering, but there are plenty of fix-its and happy ending versions out there too, mostly about Tiandi feeling bad for being such a shitty bastard in the past and trying to win Ao Guang back

Regardless of how you feel about Dilong after reading all this, if you are in any way fond of Ao Guang's design in Nezha 2, you owe your life and soul to Dilong shippers because Jiaozi's original idea for Ao Guang was making him a bearded geezer. The Nezha team saw how popular the humansona for Ao Guang was (from dilong fanart) and they incorporated it into canon.

#Dilong had a resurgence in popularity thanks to Nezha 2 (it's the no.6 trending topic on weibo as of right now). But you'll notice that pre-2025 Dilong may feel ooc now because Ao Guang is, for lack of better word, interpreted more as a softspoken twink than the beautiful himbo he is now.

*Keep Dilong in mind as well. It is the source of much insanity below.

LuBao:

Next, in a similar vein to Dilong, another wild ship has risen over the horizon! In terms of quantity, dilong is more popular, but in terms of engagement, this is doing bigger numbers nowadays. I'm talking likes in the ten-thousands range. That ship is.... Lu Tong x Shen Gongbao. AKA 鹿豹 (LuBao, DeerLeopard)

You might be thinking "HUH!? Why!?" My answer for you is that it's all Taiyi's fault. Both inside and outside the movies, Taiyi consistently screws Shen Gongbao over. Life imitates art! This section is a little longer than the dilong section because there is a Lot going on here. I'll admit that one of the most profoundly beautiful and well-written stories I have ever read is a lubao fic on lofter, I understand now

Just as the fans did for dilong once upon a time, this section of fans pulled a blink-and-you-miss-it quote from Nezha 2, where Taiyi tells Nezha that the previous captain of the demon hunting team was Shen Gongbao (after they meet the current captain, Lu Tong).

From there, the lore just got deeper. When Lu Tong greets Taiyi, he calls him 师伯 (Shi Bo, senior martial uncle). But you only call a male relative 伯 in Chinese when that person is your father's older brother. Wuliang is Taiyi's elder (martial) brother (Shi Xiong, as I'm sure you all know), so Lu Tong's address is incorrect. Taiyi knows this as well, so he corrects Lu Tong and says "It should be 师叔" (Shi Shu, younger martial uncle). Lu Tong continues calling him Shi Bo anyway. The fans took it to mean one of two things:

Lu Tong did it on purpose because he only acknowledges one (1) person as his Shi Shu and that's Shen Gongbao

Lu Tong is officially Wuliang's disciple, but he believes himself to truly be Shen Gongbao's disciple and since Taiyi is Shen Gongbao's elder martial brother, he'll call him Shi Bo

Then it got even more elaborate. The fans surmised that since the celestials are so condescending towards demons, Lu Tong and He Tong were ostracized and bullied when they first arrived at Yuxu Gong. And the only person who was nicer to them/protected them/stuck up for them was Shen Gongbao since they're the only demons there. This is why you'll sometimes see fanart of the three of them together in the "Yuxu Gong days."

When Shen Gongbao immediately realized Shen Xiaobao's wound came from Lu Tong's arrow, the fans decided this meant that he was familiar enough with Lu Tong to know his fighting style. When paired with the above headcanon, this directly turns into "Shen Gongbao himself taught Lu Tong archery."

Whenever Ao Bing possessed Nezha, fans noticed that there was always a closeup of Lu Tong's reaction. They decided this meant that Lu Tong recognized Ao Bing through recognizing his fighting style, taught to him by Shen Gongbao.

The fans also think Lu Tong did not have to go off that hard on Shen Xiaobao and Shen Zhengdao. There's following your boss's orders and there's following those orders in the most hyperviolent over the top way possible. Their conclusion is that Lu Tong knew that was Shen Gongbao's family and did it on purpose. Because when Shen Gongbao left Yuxu Gong without telling him, Lu Tong took that personally. And when he took Ao Bing on as a disciple, Lu Tong took that more Personally. So Lu Tong has decided to do his best to kill everyone Shen Gongbao ever cared about until he has nobody left but Lu Tong. Audiences complained that Lu Tong lacked a personality in the movie- the fandom has assigned him a personality and that personality is "sadistic freak obsessed with his Shi Shu."

Things of note about LuBao:

dilong was requited at some point in time, but lubao is an aggressively one-sided ship where Shen Gongbao only requits 1% of the time either because it's a complete AU, none of the movie's events happened, or he has amnesia (inflicted on him by Lu Tong)

A common trope revolves around Lu Tong hoping and hoping for Shen Gongbao to take him on as a disciple, which never happens, planting the first seeds of disappointment and HATE

Lu Tong really fucking hates Ao Bing, whom he considers to be the antagonist of his life because Ao Bing STOLE all of Shen Gongbao's love that rightfully should have been Lu Tong's. He also really hates Ao Guang too, again for stealing HIS shishu. actually, he hates Taiyi sometimes too. He hates anyone Shen Gongbao ever talked to.

He Tong is the only person who knows Lu Tong is this way.

Sometimes Lu Tong meets Shen Gongbao as a primitive deer, a fully adult celestial-in-training, or a literal "deer boy." During his time as captain, Shen Gongbao usually takes Lu Tong under his wing at some point and/or is the person who spares Lu Tong from being slaughtered by the rest of the team or convinces the others not to kill him. OR, even wilder, Shen Gongbao interacts with Lu Tong for 5 minutes 200 years ago and that's enough to cause Lu Tong to go on this spiral. Whichever the case, Lu Tong imprints on Shen Gongbao.

90% of LuBao content includes Lu Tong taking his revenge on Shen Gongbao after Wuliang imprisons him. This includes all manner of graphic torture.

Lu Tong wants Shen Gongbao to hate him because he believes Shen Gongbao left him in the past due to indifference towards him. "Hate lasts longer than love."

Shen Gongbao: *exists* Lu Tong: I'll kill your family. I'll kill your disciple. I'll kill your disciple's father and your disciple's best friend. And Taiyi Zhenren too. I'll kill everyone who ever interacted with you. Then I'll break you and break you some more until you're nothing but bones and dust. I hate that you made me love you and that you left me. What do the dragons have that I lack? Are my antlers lesser than their horns? We both have blood on our hands and yet you think yourself nobler than I. You are inherently kinder than me and I hate that the most about you. My dearest revenge is dragging you down to my level, to make you hate me as much as I hate you. If I can't have your love, I will have your hate and your pain and your tears- Ao Bing & Ao Guang: 有病!??????? WTF.

恨明月高悬独不照我 is a phrase now permanently associated with this ship. It translates to "I hate that the moon in the sky shines for all but me." Lu Tong hates that shishu shares affection with everyone except him.

This is such a prevalent characterization of Lu Tong at this point that "obsessed with Shen Gongbao" is now his defining trait even in content where neither he or Shen Gongbao are main characters

If its an Ao Guang/Shen Gongbao fic, Lu Tong sometimes shows up as SGB's abusive ex, abusive stalker, or a guy that Ao Guang finds extremely creepy and annoying

If you're still here, this next and final section puts everything else to shame!

The Ao Guang Discourse

There is a lot of drama surrounding Ao Guang now, not because of anything he did as a character, but because of who's he's shipped with. But there's actually only one side of the fandom instigating all the arguments.

Now, remember Aobing Zhuan? That's a spinoff comic focused on Aobing's childhood that came out circa 2021(?). It goes into depth about his early days with Shen Gongbao, his brothers, and even his mother, 应龙, Yinglong. (Yinglong is a real mythological creature, a powerful dragon with a place in old mythos and folklore as well, but that's not entirely relevant here lol). Yinglong is older than Ao Guang, is beautiful, strong, etc. She dies in the spinoff.

A significant number of fangirls latched onto Ao Guang (as presented in Aobing Zhuan), and projected onto Yinglong, the mother of his children. After Nezha 2 released, Ao Guang understandably gained even more fangirls. Most of them became GuangYing shippers.

Now, it's a golden rule in CN fandoms to tag your content so others can avoid. GuangYing shippers do not care about this. They go onto any and all m/m content with Ao Guang to insult the authors and argue that their disgusting ways are disrespectful to canon, disrespectful to Ao Guang, and disrespectful to women everywhere. It doesn't matter that Yinglong is not in the movies and also dead--Ao Guang is not allowed to move on from her ever, and also he is STRAIGHT. Is there not enough gay content out there?? Why can't the heterosexuals have this one man to themselves?? The injustice!

Edit to add: m/f is also unsafe from the wrath of guangyin shippers. They also attack Ao Guang self-shippers for daring to be sluts coming in between him and his true love, Yinglong.

They especially hate dilong and have been harassing all dilong content for the past month. Dilong is their main target, but it's not their only target- you can also find them under Ao Guang/Shen Gongbao content claiming that "they're just besties" and "Ao Guang just sees Shen Gongbao as a pet" asdfasdf

Dilong shippers retort by saying all Guangying shippers do is attack and harass others instead of making their own content, which is why their content is so lacking and pitful. They also called into question the canonicity of Aobing Zhuan. Jiaozi supervised it, but he's not the actual author. They started bashing Aobing Zhuan as focusing too little on Aobing, making Aobing look bad to make his brothers look good, accusing the author of being a Xiao Zhan stan in the wake of the ao3 ban, creating events that directly contradicted with canon, crediting things that Ao Guang or Shen Gongbao did for Aobing as things that Yinglong did, the official Nezha team is embarrassed of the direction Aobing Zhuan went in and doesn't acknowledge it anymore, Yinglong is the author's self insert, etc. And back and forth-

And then, 匪我思存 (Fei Wo Si Cun), acclaimed web novelist, author of multiple novels, including 东宫 (Goodbye My Princess 2019) and 9 more that were turned into TV shows.... published a Dilong fanfic on main (weibo). It referred to Ao Guang as 敖广 and involved M-preg, of him giving birth to Ao Bing, who is also Tiandi's child here. Yinglong and Tiandi's wife are both in the story too- they are a lesbian couple who double as beards for their husbands.

The Ao Guang fangirls, I mean, Guangying shippers LOST IT. They came at Fei Wo Si Cun with full throttle rage. Countless socmed posts about what a horrible disgusting disgraceful thing this author did! How dare she use her wide platform to do this instead of putting it somewhere where nobody can see!? Some have even accused this one fic of destroying Nezha 2's image on the global stage. This one story about this one ship has DESTROYED the reputation of ALL OF CHINA. This is TREASON. Now when normies see Ao Guang and Ao Bing, all they will think about is M-preg.

Not only that, Fei Wo Si Cun had the audacity to do something as misogynistic as turning Yinglong into a lesbian beard! It is a SIN to break up a "canon" pairing and a sin to change the character's sexualities into anything except heterosexuality!

Correction: the lesbian couple part is hearsay and probably came from FWSC saying (that in her fic’s setting) Yinglong and Tiandi’s wife married their husbands because they can’t be with the people they love for “reasons”

The Yinglong crowd is still going at it as I write this. FWSC has not deleted or apologized for this fic. China's reputation has, last I checked, not been DESTROYED by this one story about an animated dragon man from a kid's movie, and dilong shippers are still suffering.

And that's a wrap for now. I may or may not update this if something even wilder happens. I want to say no, this is the end of the ride, but we are only 1 month in. There's plenty of time for more to crop up!

UPDATE: This post is already out of date LMAO! For those interested in updates on everything mentioned above, here's the follow-up: Writeup Part 2.

BONUS UPDATE: Part 3

[canichangemyblogname]

Great. The rabid shippers are once again trying to turn this (re-hashed) “fetish discourse” around onto queer men. “The faggots are the REAL fetishizers”— because apparently it’s 1963 again, and a man liking a man is an unhealthy and irrational reverence; an obsession. This originally started out with us pointing out our own invisibility in fan spaces and talking about how many people in fandom who ARE NOT queer men speak over us, write off our lived realities, and rely on harmful real-world rhetoric about us to malign our visibility while building their fan community on our sexualized bodies and their fantasies of our lives. They build their relationship with media exclusively through an obsession with m/m relationships, and—perhaps predictably—then trample over us when we ask for respect.

I suppose part of what’s most frustrating is that when we, rightfully, point out that this—and similar rhetoric— is homophobic, an unfortunate not-infrequent response has been “Pfts— but I’m queer,” as if that excludes someone from being a piece of shit. You all do realize that being part of a protected class does not prevent you from contributing to systems and spreading ideas that harm those in other protected classes or the same protected class, right? “I experience an axis of marginalization, therefore I could not possibly contribute to a system that harms me and others like me,” certainly doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny, not just because it’s untrue, but also because its use here functions as a thought-terminating fallacy, designed to end the debate with a cliché rather than address the point put forth: your homophobia. It is also an Irrelevant Conclusion Fallacy, as the argument that members of a marginalized class are more likely to be sympathetic to members of that same class is certainly valid, and could be argued, but this conclusion does not address the issue in question: your homophobia. It may also be characterized as an Argument from Incredulity, where you cannot imagine that a queer person could be queerphobic, so it must be untrue. Which, of course, I have all seen people point out.

However, now, as if on queue, the next most frequent “come back” is, “So you just want women to shut up and take it? You want to silence queer women?” 1.) The people saying and doing this shit aren’t all women, 2.) The people saying and doing this shit aren’t all queer, 3.) What lead people to call out your post wasn’t anyone’s identity; it was the contents of the post, you are now using identity to shield yourself from accountability, and 4.) This is a strawman fallacy being used to distract from the original critique: your homophobia. It is also an Ad Hominen attack being used to move the focus from your homophobia to the implication that your critic is motivated by misogyny to critique you.

Although, this “come back” is more of a “case in point” at this point when the original argument was about how fans who do not live as queer men (or those adjacent) do their damnedest to speak over and discount the lived realities of queer men (and those adjacent) to instead center our visibility and our representation around the preferences, pleasures, and desires of women. Like— y’all do realize that what started a lot of this “discourse” months ago was a post that quite literally said that mlm visibility/representation has always been about and centered women and their desires in relationships with men, as well as a post where a woman said that if she ever saw a man flirt with another man in public, she’d shoot him, right? You know this, yes?

[spoiledblogif]

Things I have learned about writing...

I'm generally of the opinion that writing advice on the internet should be avoided at all costs. Taste in literature is completely subjective and one person's Twilight is another person's Jane Austen.

Which is to say that this isn't advice. These are just general things I've learned and if you want to give them a whack, you're free to do so.

Read out loud to yourself. I have nothing to add to this, just do it. You'll hear the parts where you story clunks better than just silently rereading the same line six thousand times.

Research. You live in the age of instant information. The Library of Alexandria did not burn so that you could go onto reddit and ask a question you could have simply checked wikipedia for.

You don't have to introduce your characters all at the same time. This is something that is mostly an IF crime. I think people are terrified that some characters won't be as popular or as well liked if they don't get equal screen time so we always end up taking the Character Tour, as I've come to call it. The first two chapters of encountering literally everyone important like we're on a conveyor belt. Just fyi, some of the character I'm rabid about are center stage for approximately .5 seconds. The fandom will what it wills.

You have no power over the way other people interpret your story. So instead of paralyzing yourself with the need to wash clean every bit of your writing, understand that some people are just going to do what they want. You literally cannot please everyone and if you try to you will not finish anything.

Go outside and touch grass at least once a day. Getting wrapped up in online discourse is the surest way to completely skew how you see and interpret things. Which is why I say to never listen to writing advice. I once read earnest writing advice that said that a character sexually assaulting another character was okay if the other character was flirting. Because they "opened that option". Just say 'no' to stupid opinions, kids.

Trust your audience. I'm the first one to say that most readers are just a little stupid, while also encouraging you to trust that if they're reading something they care enough about it to figure it out. You don't have to describe or explain everything in excruciating detail. Avoid at all costs the urge to "as you know". If the characters know something, then no one should need to repeat it. If it's something the reader needs to know, it needs to come up more organically than three marionettes in a conference room reading exposition off cue cards.

It's just going to suck sometimes. You are going to feel really meh about some things and only want to write the cool parts you've scripted out in your head every night before bedtime. That's normal. It doesn't mean the writing is bad, it just means our society has the collective attention span of the average kitten. A lot of advice tells you to skip these parts and then work out the framework later, but I think that's probably what they did for the last season of Game of Thrones and we all know where that got them---incest and characters blatantly refusing to complete their arcs.

Embrace editing---later. It's easy to get cross eyed when you've reread the same thing ten times. You sometimes need to just let something cook for a while and then come back to it so you can see it with a fresh perspective. This includes the shitty framework from above. Write it out, make the logic flow, and worry about how it sounds later.

ok bye

[pumpumdemsugah]

Some of you have been driven mad by being online so much you're at the point where you're rejecting good criticisms and frameworks because you might agree with an annoying twitter leftist. Being a contrarian isn't a political strategy, it's childish

Some see the rabid misogyny of the online left and have come to the conclusion that centring women and feminism in their analysis means ignoring the impact of other systems exacerbating misogyny to do good feminism. No, you're not going to solve misogyny by ignoring imperialism because you don't want to use the same word as your online enemy. Western chauvinism isn't good for women, and you're literally making yourself racist to spite people online you'll never meet. On the other hand, many on the online left have made themselves rabidly misogynistic because they don't want to share whatever opinion with whoever.

Please get bigger problems than sometimes agreeing with annoying people on social media. It's making you stupid. An understanding and analysis of how oppression impacts women should always come first, instead of optimising your hot takes to piss off and differentiate yourself by not using X words/agreeing with X concepts ( this isnt about centrist or conservatives )

A lot of people do some variation of this and it's made online discourse so much more stupid now the dumbest fuckers are trying to coin new concepts while they're taking a shit because X use it. You're not smart enough for the task. Stop it !

[katyspersonal]

Hi there, I hope you don’t mind the random question but in your mind which fanbase would you say is worse, Elden Ring or Bloodborne in terms of annoying fans. I used to think Bloodborne fans could be bad but holy shit ER fans are something else when it comes to lore discussions. As someone who is pretty active in lore talk with both games do you find one side to be more exhausting to deal with than the other? Obviously feel free not to answer this if you think it might start drama

Honestly? I can't hate Bloodborne fandom enough.

Bloodborne was my first Fromsoft game and one keeping me hostage in terms of fixation for over three years, like I said! And yes, it has incredibly bad, toxic people in it - Maria fans who kept slandering Gehrman despite all the info against their takes, honestly believed there is anything problematic with Gehrmaria, had mental breakdown if anyone dared to see Maria as bi or straight despite her not having canon sexuality, believed that the whole story is either about man bad woman good OR was incredibly misogynist, no between. Close minded, toxic people who would deliberately bait anger and pain with placing their hate in the tags and then play victims when those hurt fans snapped back. Oh, I hate them, and revealing that Gehrman's "creepiness" and "misogyny" was completely and fully translation mistake, as well as pointing out how comes why nothing is wrong with how Doll is dressed with facts, is forever my most valid contribution to the fandom. More so than my ugly childlike fanart or convoluted theories could ever be. But, not THIS is why Bloodborne fandom is worse in my opinion.

Elden Ring fandom introduced not one but SEVERAL annoying and exhausting topics to deal with! I "affectionately" titled especially rabid Malenia and Miquella fans 'Twin Cultists' because this is exactly what their behavior is and have always been! Funny enough, a person who got mad at me for this one was someone who got alienated on Discord server for Miquella fans because owners started to insist that only their headcanons are valid AND admitted to me on feeling unsafe for not shipping Finlenia. I am dead serious! Malenia fans are strikingly similar to Maria pseudofeminist fans in toxicity, Miquella fans are like if you removed all likeable traits of Leda and replaced them with even MORE of undying vitriol for anyone who dares to interpret him as anything but perfect pure radiant sunshine. Mohg triggered a pretty awful discourse between those who insisted he was rapist molester whatever and if you interpret it differently you are insensitive and media-illiterate victimblamer and people who defended him "becoming the very thing they sworn to destroy" as well as also exhibiting cult-like thought control in their circles (they know who they are -_-).

But the DLC has changed things a bit, right? Some Twin Cultists are still spilling vitriol, except now they also claim that writers are bad, not only fans that disagree with them! Still, blessed, deserved vindication finally arrived! But what about others, whose situation never changed? Vitriol towards Godrick is ABSURD. You know how common fandoms L is that they judge and hate female character for something, but when male character did the exact same thing it is humored or justified? Godrick is this, minus the gender difference, yet everyone who points out his actual characteristics and the hypocrisy of his haters gets ridiculed. You thought that his fans would flock together to support each others? No, turns out that pocket are loosers who think people who don't headcanon him as trans are childish and ridiculous and loathe cishet Elden Ring fans in general. Fia and D are caught in the weird discourse loop where one is always simplified and idealized and another is demonized to Hell and beyond, when they both are strongly caught in religious brainwashing of sorts but also are sympathetic in their own right. Ranni's fans and haters both do not know the term of Machiavellian (aka "Ends justify the means" philosophy). She is the worst most evil character in the setting over what crimes she committed in order to protect the world from the problem of potentially anyone being able to grab the laws of nature itself and shape them according to their bigotries and preferences, OR she is a perfect innocent fighter against oppression and people who dislike her Just Hate Women TM. And of course we cannot forget the one above them all! The radiant, omnipresent, eternal!...

Marika truly brings out the worst of discussions! She has been before SOTE, but you YEARN for pre-SOTE times if you hate OR love her! Not because things changed, but because now discussion can't be avoided. She is THE Elden Ring character who is only ever demonized and idealized. Before SOTE, she was only ever just a tyrant who loves genocide OR simply a puppet of Greater Will (or rather Two Fingers claiming to speak for it as it turned out) who never meant to do that shit and finally heroically rebelled. After SOTE... hahaha, oh boy... we started to deal with the issue of excusing genocide. Her fans will claim into essays and more essays why Hornsent are all fundamentally dangerous race and Marika is merely trying to rid the world of filth that ruins it by sending Messmer. However, demonization didn't quite go away either, and her haters are so angry at writers humanizing her a bit more that they say WRITERS are pro-fascist!

So, why? I've described such horrid discourse, when Bloodborne fandom sounds like it simply has a few bad apples in comparison! What can be worse than Elden Ring fandom, after a description like this? Yeah, you see... Elden Ring fandom is thorn by awful arguments and discourse, it is hostile and dangerous for your mental health if you are invested into fandom beyond just "consuming content" and advertising your art for sale. Yet, it lives. It lives in the same sense as a land torn by earthquakes lives. It lives in the same sense a volcano that won't stop smoking lives. It lives in the same sense sea lives during the storm. But it LIVES.

Bloodborne fandom is a fucking Caelid.

If you question whether I'd be scared of "drama", I assume you are new here and don't know my epic lore. I am not afraid of anything because society made itself clear on what I am for it. In the most condenced way possible, one OF those toxic Maria fans didn't like me thinking for myself too much so they went out of their way to slander me for various -ists and -phobias. Their ableist friend that doesn't take racism seriously joined in. I was a victim of stalking, harassment, slander, witch-hunting and cult-like shunning for over a year, and so was every kind fool who treated me like a human - friend or mutual. I can NOT speak of Bloodborne fandom experience from personal standpoint because obviously it is not an objective experience (though someone who also got unfairly slandered by Maria fans too contacted me, so I question whether it IS a trend..?). Still, it isn't about me or my friends, we are an oddity. Bloodborne fandom for me was just a bunch of gullible, weak sheep who are okay with witch-hunt because letting just a few people get harassed is not worth souring their fandom experience. And I do not wish to turn back or even try to mend anything. I caught my stalker and exposed their crimes, I made everyone who believed they were innocent feel stupid and ashamed, it was all I wanted. I don't wish to "befriend" the fandom afterwards.

YEAH YEAH "THINGS ONCE BROKEN" WHATEVER

But I was still posting and drawing and playing and talking and writing, right? I was still present. So, I was at least observing what was going on. And what truly soured Bloodborne fandom was actually happening afterwards, what was not involving me or any friend or enemy I knew. The worst thing happened, worse for fandom than any amount of discourse. I call it "centralization", for lack of better term.

Bloodborne is a niche fandom, yet it had a sudden zoomers burst. And that led to dynamics of "fandom leaders", and stupid fucking Discord community that are akin to elite club in which if you are not invited you might as well not exist. It ALL became about stupid "web of mutuals" nonsense. It ALL became about some cool kids deciding what will be the ship or the take of the week/month, and soon you'd see NOTHING but this thing posted. Always through the exact same lense, too. Only to then be forgotten, because it was just a trend. Rom x Caryll comes to mind as a FAD of similar vibe. Micolaurence too.

I just hate this. The fandom stopped LIVING. I saw genuinely absurd things happen! Like someone drawing Mariadeline, one of the most popular ships in the fandom, yet they get completely ignored because they've failed to grab a beer at the bar with "leaders" of this ship who "hold" the distribution of that approval and love. Even worse; over a year ago, a very talented, fun, energetic and creative fan of Mensis Trio and Byrgenwerth squad showed up! They were SPAMMING art and writing, and all of that was good! So good that..... all of that barely got over 20 notes, maybe 30. Why? Because, again, you can't just post about blorbos and expect to be liked and approached. You have to get on the "good side" of "holders" of love for characters like Micolash, Laurence and Rom, or else they'll just side-eye you! But imagine this with literally everything else. I have been watching it happen all the time, to people that were not even targets for cult-like shunning by Alfred, Eugene or Anna for associating with me. You keep to yourself, you are shy, you are not on Discord with them, your headcanons are a bit different? Too bad, you may rot, because it is not about you! People look up to a few popular artists with shallow takes and so much creative liberties they might as well make OCs to know whether this or that person should be liked and reblogged, instead of JUST liking and reblogging them!

THIS is why Bloodborne fandom is Caelid. Not for toxicity, but because it is rotten. It used to be far less "organized" when I joined in. There were no trends to define fandomry for next few weeks decided on a party where ignored creators were not invited to. There was not hegemony of certain ships, designs and headcanons. There was no "web of mutuals" and pressure to either assert yourself by the good side or vanish. Everyone were doing their things and coexisting, nobody could determine who flourishes and who rots, diversity of headcanons and interpretations were celebrated. Oh, what's a matter? You really dislike that popular artist who infantilizes Marika and stripes her out of any agency over her actions? Well, so do like 500000 other people! Every popular take is ALSO popular to hate on in Elden Ring fandom! But if you dislike a popular take in Bloodborne then sucks to be you, because diversity of interpretations, opinions, preferences and takes just doesn't exist in it. Not anymore. Unless you "asserted" your novel idea to the "court" on some stupid Discord server and was "approved", of course.

Look. Elden Ring discourse annoys me to no end. I always get my headcanons and interpretations "corrected" in the worst condescending fashion. My friend posted a very well made lore post and got harped on because his take contradicted someone's idol's headcanons (with that idol approving of that harping) and I am still mad. I don't want to post my GEQ takes to be reminded that "aktualy" she is Melina. I dislike seeing claims of Miquella's nonexistent character assassination or Radahn hated just because some sexist Redditors were using him as a mascot. Nonetheless, deep down, I am THANKFUL. Because even really annoying debates end up being entertaining. Because people here TALK about things, REVISIT things, ARGUE about things, CARE about things, HAVE OPINIONS on things. They will annoy you in the comments or reblogs, but they SPEAK to you. No take is so popular that it defines all art and fanfics because every popular take is also popular to hate on. Things are disorganized. No fandom leaders, no elite club ignored blog wasn't invited to, no "web of mutuals" that should get sucked into a vacuum cleaner and never be seen again. Elden Ring fandom is a battlefield, but also free market minus the money.

To be honest, Bloodborne fandom was done for me when based people started to vanish. Fishbowlcarnage deactivated everywhere, Cuddlefish mysteriously disappeared and I worry whether they are even alive to this day, user Molluscock got bullied away... It felt like a bad omen, it happened before my drama, and I've never seen users like this before. Except I have been, but they all are now ignored because of this stupid high school dynamic taking over. Had Elden Ring hyperfixation not happened, I'd probably just end up blocking many Bloodborne accounts and never care for trying to make connections again, just post art and vanish to draw the next one. I did end up blocking some Bloodborne mutuals, after all. After it hit me, what was bothering me so much. Appreciate Elden Ring fandom and it's earthquakes, because shaking earth can't be bigger evil than stagnation. Bloodborne fandom no longer breathes, they are champions of not feeding the sparkles that were meant to become fire hoping they die down, and I hate every looser that benefits from that "system". In Elden Ring, ALL things flourish, whether graceful or malign.

[beevean]

Gotta be honest, that's the thing that gets me. The movies are phenomenally successful, relatively speaking. Enjoying the movies is the majority opinion. It's us who didn't like it and are complaining who're the weirdos and the outliers.

Negativity bias is a thing sure (criticism feels bad twice as much as praise feels good) but the criticism against the movie is a drop in the bucket compared to the overwhelming amount of praise and adulation the movie is receiving. Why can't folks who like the movie just say "well sorry you have shit taste, more awesome movie for me" or something? Why do they have to treat criticism against the movie like it's some kind of personal insult?

Toxic positivity I guess.

I would first blame how easily the fandom splinters, how you can get stuck in a small corner where your opinion feels unpopular, and how there is an utterly incendiary discourse happening in certain sections of the fandom, where anything can get you labeled as "not a real Sonic fan".

You like IDW/the movies? You're not a real Sonic fan, you like slop. You don't like IDW/the movies? You're not a real Sonic fan, you just love to complain about everything. You like Forces? Pfeh, everyone knows that that game personally pissed on SEGA's wife! You like Amy? I will automatically think you're a rabid fan who doesn't respect other characters. You dislike Amy? HOW FUCKING DARE YOU, YOU MISOGYNIST. You want Sonic to be consistent in all adaptations? You are the very reason this fandom is so miserable because y'all won't like anything, you purist.

And so some fans get very defensive. They feel surrounded and like they have to fight tooth and nail for the right to not be labelled stupid, when in reality there may be plenty of people who think like them.

Most of the time my criticism against something comes from a place of me asking "WHAT DO YOU SEE why can't I see what you see and why can't you see what I see 😭", not "you are all smoothbrained and i have the largest cock in the fandom". I don't expect an answer, and in truth I make sure to keep in my corner, but like. You can and are allowed have an opinion without making others feel dumb.

[icycoldninja]

Hey mutual, I really enjoy your writing! I was going to ask if you could do a small fic of the reader being a goddess/god in an all knowing way. Their power is to know all events of the past and future and as a defense would be a really strong glare that would bring out the worst in the affected person. It could be with any of the sparda men of your choice. It’s okay if you want to do it. STAY MOYIVATEDD!!☺️☺️

Yup, I chose to play favorites and do Vergil only, that okay? Thanks so much and please enioy!

All-knowing (Vergil x Goddess!Reader)

"Y/N, where is the--"

"In the kitchen, third cabinet on the left, top shelf."

"Thank you."

Vergil hurried off to the kitchen to retrieve the item he was looking for, silently thanking you for knowing where everything was at all times, even though sometimes it could get annoying.

"Vergil," You called, "A group of demons is about to arrive at the edge of town. Let us beat them to it."

"Yes, of course," Vergil agreed, heading for the door.

"No, not through the front door," You cautioned. "If you do, you'll let a mosquito in, which will terrorize us 5 days from now."

"I see," Vergil mumbled, turning around and walking to the back door.

"Not there either, Verg," You called, "Or you'll end up face to face with a rabid raccoon."

"Then how am I supposed to leave the house?" Vergil grumbled irritable. You languidly raised a finger and pointed at the Yamato in response, making Vergil suddenly aware of a heat in his face.

"Ah" Was all he had to say as he cut an opening into the very fabric of reality, stepping through it with you following close behind.

Once you arrived upon the scene of the soon-to-occur crime, Vergil drew the Yamato and waited patiently for the demons to show up. While he was waiting, you treated him to a long discourse regarding how he should attack the demons, taking into account past injuries, weak points in his techniques, etc. While Vergil was thankful for your concern and appreciated your help, he was also slightly annoyed. He'd been surviving just fine on his own, he didn't really need you butting in and making so many comments.

"Look out, Vergil, here they come," You suddenly announced, snapping him out of his inner monologue. Vergil turned to face the encroaching demons with determination in his eyes and began cutting them down, not at all concerned about your safety as your all-seeing eyes could anticipate the demons' attacks well before they happened.

If only he could do the same, he might have been able to see the giant monster that suddenly burst from the ground, nearly swallowing him up in its gaping maw. Vergil barely had time to register what was happening when the creature went and smacked him in the side, sending him flying. He landed on the ground, pride and ribs a bit bruised, but otherwise fine. He leaped up and was ready to go in for the kill, when your voice rang out across the battlefield once again.

"Don't do it!" Your words made Vergil hesitate, and it was a good thing he did, or he would have been blown to bits by the ray of magic the demon shot out mere seconds later. Thankfully, because of the distance between the two, Vergil managed to deflect the attack and cut the demon clean in half, exhaling in relief once the battle was over.

"Thank you," He mumbled, turning to you with a sheepish little frown.

"Anytime," You chuckled, briefly kissing his cheek before jaunting away.

As Vergil followed you back home, he thanked his lucky stars that you were so powerful, otherwise he would be in a very different state right now.

[genericpuff]

I don't know the term for creators who became popular outside the traditional steps to "make it" in their profession; then when people started taking their work seriously and giving them criticism, these creators saw it as an attack because they are not used to mentors and studies.

Smythe's professional training is vague at best, being a folklorist. Then there's the creator of the popular hell cartoon that became her own executive producer and director in her 20s (I'm not going to say her name since it tends to attract her rabid fans) and becomes reactive to any kind of criticism on Twitter. Then there's that TikToker Devon Rodriguez, who became popular for sketching people on subways, and when an art critic gave a mild review to his art gallery, Devon unleashed his fans on him.

Like am I seeing a pattern here for artists? And I guess, what do you think we can learn from it.

Ah, so this is a very interesting (and broad) topic that we've touched on in discussions in ULO and other webtoon-related communities. So buckle up, it's time for an ✨essay✨

I think the best way I can sum up my thoughts on this issue is: the vast majority of people who become paid content creators don't seek out a job as content creators, a job in content creation is just something that happens to them.

I say "content creation" because this is something that applies to a lot of other platforms and online mediums as well, such as the examples you included (TikTok, Youtube, Twitch, etc.). And don't get me wrong, it's not like every successful content creator out there didn't work their asses off to get to where they are, but for many... it still involves an element of luck. People don't go to school for it, people don't "apply" to become influencers, and much of it relies entirely on just making stuff until it gets seen and propelled into success.

I think a lot of these issues arise with the creators themselves and how they view their own work. The reality is that many of us artists have been treated as the "rejects" of society, we constantly feel like we're misunderstood and have some deep inner pain that we express through our art, and instead of going to therapy, we come up with OC's. It's a lot more fun and it's a lot cheaper LOL Webcomics naturally wind up being the perfect lightning rod for people who feel that way, where we can pour ourselves into the characters, the world, the narrative, in a way that perfectly mixes our talents for art and our need to express our innermost thoughts and feelings about ourselves and the world around us. So when our art gets criticized or rejected ... it can be hard for a lot of artists to not feel like it's a criticism of the self, a rejection of our identities, an attack on our feelings and experiences, because we've tied so much of ourselves to our work. And this can make that transition very difficult for people who are trying to go pro, because being professional demands separating yourself from your work, at least enough that you can view it objectively, recognize its flaws, seek out pathways to improvement, and not take every bump in the road personally.

A lot of successful creators are people who just never made that transition. It's led to an abundance of professional creators who know how to film themselves or react to content or, in the case of webcomic artists, write stories about their OC's, but don't know how to actually navigate the industry at a professional level. They don't know how to read and negotiate contracts, they don't know what deals are actually good for them and which ones are better left on the table, they don't know how to manage teams of people, they don't know how to react to the attention, praise, and criticism of their audience - they're just doing what they've always done, but now they're making money doing it.

None of this is to speak ill in any way of the creators who've found success and are still just doing what they've always done for money. None of this is meant to be a slight on the creators who are using webcomics and art as an expression of their deeper selves (I do it myself, it's very cathartic!) because ultimately that's what makes your work your work, the fact that you made it, with all your good parts and bad. Many of these creators are capable of running their platform without any issues because they've learned how to play the game, or because their platform is made up of people just like them so their audience is more like just a social circle.

But many of them still also can't operate on a professional level and those are the ones we often see getting called out and held accountable when they do shit like, I dunno, scamming their audiences for money or making alt accounts to manipulate user reviews or plagiarizing from other people's work or just being really REALLY shitty to their own audience.

Often times these are people who are just doing what they'd normally do as a hobby, became well known for it, and managed to turn it into a living. But they never actually learned how to turn their hobby into a job, and themselves into professionals.

And artists especially are prone to this because, let's face it, a lot of us are just weebs having fun drawing our blorbos, so of course if we get a chance to monetize that, we're gonna! We should! We should want to be paid for our work and time and efforts!

But we also have to remember that it's a different ballgame, especially if you're turning your audience into customers. "I'm just a baby creator doing this for fun" doesn't and shouldn't apply anymore once you start signing contracts, selling your art as products, taking people's money to fund your projects, etc. because now it's not just your art, it's what you're expecting people to pay for so you can eat and pay your bills and live.

As much as our art is often personal and should be cherished as such, you can't expect people to want to pay for it if you're not setting a bar and meeting it, or if you're not treating your audience with any amount of dignity or respect.

I'm not saying you're not entitled to having feelings or still wanting to treat your art as art, but the line between art and products is there for a reason, it's to set people's expectations and ensure that both sides are having those expectations met. Webtoon creators suffer from the same thing that a lot of Youtube creators and other types of content creators suffer from in this transition, and I feel like HBomberGuy summed it up best:

"In current discourse, Youtubers simultaneously present as the forefront of a new medium, creative voices that need to be taken seriously as part of the 'next generation of media' - and also uwu smol beans little babies who shouldn't be taken seriously when they rip someone off and make tens of thousands of dollars doing it."

It's not gatekeeping a medium, it's not telling people they aren't allowed to have feelings or to want to still have that personal connection to their work in spite of the professional level it's achieved, it's simply just expecting people to actually live up to the label of 'professional' that they're using to make money.

And this especially goes for someone like Rachel, who claims to be a 'folklorist' despite all the contrary evidence that says otherwise. This is the same person who copy pasted the first result on Google as her source on a simple word definition:

There's a second part to that HBomberGuy quote that also actually applies to Rachel really well in this discussion, concerning how she labels herself a "folklorist" and how that's affected and influenced the greater discussion surrounding Greek myth:

"But on the opposite end, Youtubers who act like serious documentarians gain a shroud of professionalism which then masks the deeply unprofessional things they do. We just saw that with James. I think [James] partially got away with what he's doing for so long because he acts so professional about it, so people assume, 'there's no way he could just be stealing shit!' so they don't check. And on top of that, a lot of James' videos contain obvious mistakes and made-up facts... but because they're often presented next to well-researched stuff he stole, no one questions it. I've seen James repeat a lie in his videos, and then other people claim it's true, and link his video as the proof. He has helped to solidify misinformation by seeming like he's doing his diligence."

There's always going to be discourse over what's legitimate and what isn't when it comes to Greek myth, there are loads of things we still don't know simply due to the knowledge being lost to time. But there's something to be said about a white New Zealand woman using her self-insert romance comic and platform to build a veneer of professionalism and legitimacy around herself, as if she's the authority on the subject, while simultaneously relying on first result Google searches and citing works that have no real foothold in the way of scholarly or "folklorist" discussion.

All that's to say, you're right, her professional training is vague at best. She's never completed a longform comic prior to LO, she's not doing her due diligence in actually engaging with the media she's trying to "retell" and exposing herself to the voices of those from the culture that's tied to it, and she's not holding herself to any sort of standards when it comes not only to being a professional, but a professional who's been held on a pedestal for all these years. She's still operating the same way she was 5 years ago - drawing and writing whatever pops into her head and sending it to her editor for uploading, with next to no intervention or guidance. Except now it doesn't have the benefit of being new and having "potential", it's getting noticed and called out more now than ever because it's been 5 years of this shit and it's been getting worse on account of her clearly being burnt out (or just giving up/not caring) and the readers can't be sold on "potential" anymore.

And that's all I have to say on that.

[whoishotteranimepolls]

Since we're allowed to ask for someone to explain the appeal of characters, can I add Silvers Rayleigh, Benn Beckman, and Marco to the list? I do not understand why so many of you find them attractive. I mean on the Funny tags post. Rayleigh and Beckman have the most extensive sections, and Marco has some funny ones, too. However, I find them highly unappealing. I mean, Rayleigh is just your drunk Grandpa, and Beckman is your drunk uncle. Marco, unfortunately, looks like a pineapple and is part bird. So I seriously don't know how anyone finds him appealing, but I know his fans are out there, and they're very loyal. So can any of their fans. Please explain to me their appeal. Apparently, you guys exist and not just exist. You guys appear to be ride-or-die loyal, and I do not understand.

Now, I watch One Piece. I enjoy One Piece, and the show has so many attractive male characters, but you guys are going crazy for Silvers Rayleigh, the drunk grandpa with a gambling problem that I'm pretty sure the family only keeps around because he taught everyone how to do tax evasion and is willing to take the fall if anyone gets caught because at his age live in prison doesn't mean all that much anymore

Or Benn Beckman, the drunk uncle with the smoking problem. Now, I'm pretty sure he only has the smoking problem because he had to finish raising Rayleigh's red-headed disaster of a son he found as a stray when Shanks was. What 15? Dealing with a teenage Shanks would turn anyone gray and to smoking, but I don't think gentle parenting works on Shanks, and Beckman should have tried something a little bit more forceful. In fact, I think he should be demanding compensation from Rayleigh because Shanks has only lost one limb on his watch. But back to the point, I'm pretty sure most people find him attractive because of his competency kink. Still, there has to be more to it because of how much is in that section on that nicknames and tags post because, apparently, his fans are. How should I put this? Absolutely rabid for him, and I would love to know why. That's the term I think works best. If you don't believe me seriously, go check out that post

Or poor Marco, that haircut does nothing for you. It's just cursed you with the nickname pineapple head. He's also technically part bird, well actually part Phoenix close enough. And I don't understand why anyone would want to get down and dirty with a Phoenix, but I have seen way too much fanfic to prove otherwise. So, can his fans explain His appeal because? I am just trying to understand you guys.

Because again, I watch One Piece, and there are so many attractive guys on that show, especially of the DILF variety, but I do not understand the Rayleigh, Beckman, or Marco fans. So can any of their fans explain their appeal

Defend Your Blurbo #3

Please remember this post is about curiosity and genuine fandom discourse. Be kind with your answers because this is not a debate essay, this is a discussion between fans.

Well, here are some photos of the blurbos and questions. Now, they are right when they say Beckman and Rayleigh have two of the most extensive sections on my nickname and funny tags post for one piece, which I will link. So I do understand where they're coming from on that part because when I was first putting that post together, I did not expect those two to have such long sections

Otherwise, One Piece Fandom, Defend Your Blorbos

[hellofastudysession]

am i rlly going to write a death note literary analysis when i could be doing other things

about the discourse going on in the tag abt "death note is acab and thats why the characters couldnt better the world with the note (/written in somewhat jokey matter)" vs "death note is trying to say we all have potential for evil, especially if you get a chance to insta-hurt ppl without repercussions, and it doesnt matter if youre a cop or not", i personally feel like it ignores the things that i like abt death note, which is "both of these things are true", and simultaneously "both of these things do not matter". the first part of this is dedicated to the first point, the latter to the last.

first point. i think its an important part of the message and themes (unintentional or not, and i lean on the former because... come on, can you really say the author intended you to not think of the cops as good people, at least compared to light and l) that light is a cops son, and that almost everyone who gets the death note is cop adjacent/thinks like a cop and is already corrupt/powerful when they get it (mello raised to think hed be just like l, yotsuba group is self explanatory; you cannot look me in the eyes and tell me teru "churchill" mikami, who was hand selected by light out of a bunch of rabid kira supporters, is a normal citizen). i appreciated the cop post bc its rlly important to not gloss over that aspect.

all of this would be an argument for "only someone like them would do something like this, and i am not like them, so im above them and immune to thinking about what id do with it", but... misa is the MOST important outlier in all of this bc her murders are solely selfish in nature and shes not doing any of this for "the greater good"!!! her nature of being an exception and still a very very bad person is really really important...

or it would be if death note gave a shit about her character at all!!! im not talking about her tragic side, im talking about exploring the ramifications of her killing people the way lights murders are (somewhat) explored. that would strengthen the message greatly! but shes dismissed and that weakens it overall. firstly, she's dismissed by the characters when l only sees her as a way to get to kira and basically shelves her the rest of the time. secondly, shes dismissed by the narrative when her character is gradually ground down to a stump and (not to sound perilously close to the bad takes ppl meme about) she never faces repercussions for her actions. every other character using the death note is treated relatively seriously, but misa just dies bc her love is dead. im not saying this isnt a... fitting punishment or that it isnt in character, but it doesnt fit snugly into the theme other people are talking about of "you reap what you sow" at all.

we do have something of an equivalent to misa's grayscale motives. surprise surprise, its light yagami. first is light's characterization in the musical (i will also note that misa never kills anyone in the musical). light's thinking is coplike, yes — he literally starts his first song by talking about "throw[ing] away the key" — but also, oddly enough, could be read as progressive and therefore sympathetic to tumblr ("let the corporations make the regulations / and hold no one accountable when everything gets wrong / let the rich and famous get away with murder / every time a high-priced mouthpiece starts to talk, his client gets to walk"). compare to the anime and manga, where his bigotry and pride and disgust come from a place of lukewarm dissatisfaction and boredom. the musical has much less time to play around with lights character, so it gives the audience something to immediately hook on. more on how that actually plays out later.

in the animanga, none of this is justified from the start. animanga light could say he was just killing people to make humanity way, way worse, and that wouldnt matter, because at the root of it, it was always his boredom that made him pick up the note. of course he actually believes in justice and believes hes doing the right thing (no, he believes he's doing the wrong thing, for the sake of the world... the right thing, because he is god...), but it was boredom at the start. all animanga light says about justice and righteousness and the law is a front in the end, bc he is exactly like l and misa — amoral. selfish. searching for entertainment. hedonistic. we know this. he kills naomi misora*. he kills lind l. turner. everything hes saying deserves to be dismissed from the beginning.

"but doesnt that mean you agree with the discourse post you wrote this post to argue against?" like i said, i agree with both of them! but i... still think its not right to reduce death note to the message of "the power to kill people is bad". because that is not exactly what the story is saying, even though that's literally its whole plot and therefore reaching that conclusion is self explanatory (lmao). let's look at the concept of mu. nothingness. "there's no heaven or hell". The Real Slay The Princess (Death Note Essay) Starts Here.

in light's final moments in the death note manga, while screaming about not wanting to die, he remembers that the first day they met, ryuk told light that "there's no heaven or hell. no matter what they do in life, all people go to the same place. all humans are equal in death". it is retroactively revealed that light knew this the whole time, operated under this knowledge for all the years we watched him — the knowledge that nothing he does is actually bad, that nothing any human does is actually bad, that shinigami are not "evil", that the universe does not care. that no one cares except humans. this oblivion absolutely terrifies him more than anything anyone could ever do to him. its what he thinks of before anything else as he flails there, screaming, dying. one could say everything he does after that day is him trying to escape that fact, or wrest control over it. but it doesnt work.

here are the lyrics of requiem, the musical's final song, sung over the bodies of l and musical light, a light who was at least somewhat good-intentioned at first: "sleep now, here among your choices / then fade away / hear how the world rejoices / shades of gray / gone who was right or wrong / who was weak or strong / nothing left to learn". this is the final message the death note musical and the manga chose to leave us with. there is no judgement. even after all that acknowledged hurt, after all the damage done, there is no judgement.

in the manga and anime alike, the world is just as fucked when light picks up the death note as when he dies. sure, we as readers can guess otherwise logically (and be optimistic, believing the world was never fucked regardless), but that's not what death note wants you to think. it ends with matsuda and another member of the task force noting how the world is worse again even though they killed kira (matsuda is clearly much worse for wear, but still determined), we see the shitty motorcycle band again, it ends with misa and a whole kira cult on a mountain even though kira died a long time ago...

its extremely important that light is never killed by any human or any aspect of the law. he is always killed by ryuk: a chaotic force completely detached from human sensibilities, one that does not care about good and evil. same with l; in the anime, manga, and musical, he is always killed by rems senseless, morally gray love (and you could argue in the kdrama that hes killed by love there too lol). justice is just a set dressing.

this is not just because death note is a tragedy, because good and evil can still matter in a tragedy. the theme of "nothingness" and "good and evil doesnt matter here" is also shown in a situation relatively unrelated to light winning or losing, or being good or bad. and its in fucking lawlight of all things. we all know ls not a good person. we know lights not a good person. this is tip of the iceberg death note knowledge. but the moment they start to interact, none of that starts to matter. textually, their relationship becomes more important than the people theyve killed and hurt. and the thing is? the thing is? THAT WORKS STORY-WISE. THAT'S ENTERTAINING. AND IT'S NEVER TEXTUALLY CALLED OUT IN A LASTING WAY. l and lights relationship, no matter how much i meme it, is genuinely important to the themes and "mu" because it makes it clear that despite all the pretensions, despite everything, this was never about good and evil. and it still works in the story. this is why death note is simultaneously a comedy — isn't the battle of good and evil supposed to matter more? well, fine, i'll keep watching this anyway. that suspension of disbelief comes crashing down the moment l dies, though, and a relationship built on nothingness (the "mu" sort, meaninglessness, not "character development" nothingness, theres plenty of character development) gives way to just nothingness (again, "mu", not light's post-l depression nothingness), forever.

(an aside: there is no one to root for in death note, and the only things to root for are either interesting character relationships, convoluted plots, or complete and total destruction: for everything to end so no more damage is done.)

not to say that death note does not encourage its readers to consider what damage they might do with the death note (obviously.), or that its characters never do. look at matsuda, a much easier heroic figure to latch on to than soichiro because of his unique place in the cast dynamic and because he's willing to consider both sides of the situation and kill light instantly for all he's done. its just that the story's own stance on the subject is... complicated by the existence of shinigami worldviews and by its own insistence that the world cannot change for the better.

also, this is not to say that this is executed well by the death note manga at all. it is a very strong tool, artistically, to establish and then violently remove any emotional connections between characters and make your story only about the exceedingly convoluted lengths characters go to to survive and catch each other so the reader can realize how ultimately pointless all of this is, but like... is that a good story choice if that's all you do? i would say not really. add in a good dollop of misogyny that destroys the second-to-last character who might actually be an interesting contrast to the rest of the cast's dull one-track focus on winning and justice, and youve got yourself a shitty story that... honestly still achieves what it went out to do, just not in a way id ever want to replicate.

anyway, back to the parts death note's actually trying to say. no matter what any human does in their life, no matter how they try to hurt or help the world, they all die in the end. hey, light, they all die in the end. once dead, they can never come back to life. and the seasons turn. and the world rejoices. and you say "goodbye"...

that's all.

no analysis of death notes overarching theme would be complete without nears final monologue, the definitive roast of light, the "you're just a murderer" speech: "what is right from wrong? what is good from evil? nobody can truly distinguish between them. even if there is a god." if we take this as talking about the actual god in the room (ryuk) as well as light, then near admits that humans will never be able to withstand these overwhelming forces and that, using justice and happiness and selfishness, they are just scrabbling to find meaning in things they ultimately have no control over.

but of course, near does not stop there. "[...] even then i'd stop and think for myself. i'd decide for myself whether his teachings are right and wrong." nears alright with not having control over everything, because near can still control nears own actions. these forces can and do exist, but they have no sway over nears own humanity — unlike light, who caved.

one of the creators of death note said they believe its message is "life is short, so everyone should do their best". the first time i learned this, i was like, thats... nice and optimistic, but an awful reading of the story! "life is short, so everyone should be desperate and striving like light yagami", who literally cut off other ppls lives for his own life? what character in death note are we supposed to strive towards when we "do our best"? they all do awful things with their lives! honestly, maybe they shouldnt have tried their best, if this is what their best is!

but with the view of "mu"... it makes a bit more sense. just a little. maybe.

there is no good and evil. there is only what humans think, and no matter what we do, we all die in the end. it is easy to be crushed and terrified by this in the same way light is, but what is more important than justice and righteousness and finding meaning is... doing your best. not being a person that hurts others too much. not letting yourself get swallowed up by an ideal. not going too far. and simultaneously, trusting yourself.

it leaves a few questions, though... was the currently dead l even a little bit right about his blatantly amoral approach, then? was there a point to this pain, and me slogging through this dumbass manga, and all the people that have lost their lives to a selfish teenage cop's son and the whims of everyone chasing after him? was there a point to any of this...?

the manga** never answers this. it stays clinically impartial until the very end. the musical is anything but clinically impartial (and i love it so much for that), and its ryuk that has the last word.

"there's no point at all."

of course theres no point. none of this was ever supposed to happen. that is what matters more than all the hurt and the crimes and the pain.

and that's... actually okay, because it's over now.

yes, death note has many really important themes present in its story, but its viewpoint is nihilism first and foremost. thats why its so fun and easy to play around with all the other messages, because no matter what fun or torment or awful things or righteous justice or absolute nothingness or sentimentality happens in between, there is always an end.

there is always the end.

[ruinofchimera]

Finally, someone had the guts to address this absurd circus around so-called ‘ugly’ characters in books. And look—I’m only human, so of course, I’m going to toss in a few logs of my own into this dumpster fire.

What I can’t—will not—ever stomach is the sheer audacity of some people to dictate how others should imagine characters. The nerve. It’s as if they’re so puffed up with their own sense of importance, so absolutely convinced that their view of the world is the gospel truth, that they feel entitled to impose it on everyone else. Well, let me save you some time—you’ll get nothing from me but a resounding ‘bloody sod off.’ Maybe try therapy if you’ve got that much pent-up energy.

The fandom debates on the matter of attractiveness—dear God, they’re relentless. The second a character’s ‘ugliness’ is even hinted at, the discourse spirals into some surreal parody of itself. And when it comes to Severus Snape, well, that’s where people have really outdone themselves. That’s where the madness truly reaches its peak. You’ve got one half of the fandom—rabid ATYD fanboys and fangirls, mostly—ready to pounce on any art or fancast that doesn’t fit their atrocious vision of Snape with the chant, ‘THIS IS TOO PRETTY TO BE SNAPE!’ And then you’ve got the other half of the fandom who take it upon themselves to issue a rallying cry for ugliness, as if they’re campaigning for some higher cause. ‘Don’t be afraid to picture Severus as ugly as he truly is. I prefer him that way,’ they say, as if they’re handing out some kind of badge of moral superiority for embracing ugliness.

Well, hold on a second—define ‘ugly’ for me, would you? While you’re at it, define ‘pretty.’ I’d love to see you try to box up something as subjective as human attraction into neat little labels. What do you mean he isn’t beautiful? Do you think there’s some universal truth about what constitutes beauty? Have you ever heard of this tiny thing called tastes?

Because here’s the reality: tastes vary. What’s pretty to one person is ugly to the next. Yet, somehow, these people have convinced themselves that conventional beauty is the only standard worth recognizing. It’s almost as if they’ve been so brainwashed by mainstream standards that they can’t comprehend any other version of reality.

And even when you do talk about conventional beauty, do you really think everyone’s swooning over the same faces? Take Ben Barnes, for example—an actor practically deified by parts of the internet. Do you think he’s universally adored? Brace yourself—because he’s not. There are people out there who think Barnes, despite all his fanfare, has a nose far too ugly for anyone’s liking. And guess what? That’s fine. Because beauty is subjective. It always has been; it always will be.

Yet, in fandoms, you’d think some people were personally appointed to enforce these ridiculous beauty standards, insisting that everyone must imagine the characters the only right way. Let me let you in on a secret: just because a narrator calls a character ‘ugly’ doesn’t mean jack. Writers, same as anyone else, have their own bloody preferences. Sure, they can project those tastes onto the page, but at the end of the day, it’s just that—tastes. Nothing more.

Now, take Snape. What do we actually know about his so-called ugliness? A large, hooked nose. That’s it. And from that, you want people to conjure up some grotesque, monstrous image? Give me a bloody break. Who even gets to decide what’s ‘large’ and what’s not when it comes to appearance? It’s subjective, like everything else in beauty. You like a nose that’s straight and button-sized, or maybe you prefer someone who’s practically noseless, like Voldemort? Well, good for you. I’m not here to judge. But do me a favor—keep your pristine, perfectly upturned little nose and your narrow standards of beauty out of my business.

And here’s the funny thing—the absolute hysteria over Snape’s greasy hair. You’d think the guy walked out of a swamp the way people go on about it. But guess what? There are plenty of characters with greasy hair that fans are practically wetting themselves over. Need an example? Loki Laufeyson. That’s right—the Loki. The man’s got exactly the kind of lanky, greasy hair that should, by your standards, render him disgusting. Yet, somehow, there’s a whole legion of fans swooning over him like he’s some fallen god of beauty. Suddenly, greasy hair is mysterious and sexy.

Let’s not forget—Loki is played by none other than Tom Hiddleston, whose appearance is hardly what you’d call ‘conventional.’ He’s not some pretty boy with chiseled features, and yet, there’s no shortage of people who are ready to kneel at the sight of him. So, what happened there? Where’s all the hand-wringing over his greasy locks? Oh, that’s right—there isn’t any. How inconvenient for you and your narrow-minded standards of beauty. It’s almost as if your little squeaks about ugliness are soaked in nothing but shallow, prejudiced nonsense.

Beauty isn’t about ticking off boxes on some checklist of features society has deemed acceptable. It’s personal, subjective, and as varied as human taste. If all you can get behind is some cookie-cutter version of aesthetics, then by all means, live your bland little life. But don’t you dare try to impose that on the rest of us. You don’t get to dictate how others picture characters, just like you don’t get to decide what’s ugly. Beauty’s a wild, unpredictable thing—and it’s about time people stopped trying to cage it with their narrow ideas of what it should be.

[batsplat]

I’m gonna sound like a boomer but we’re never gonna get any rivalries on par with vale’s feuds or actually any pre late 2010s feuds anymore. and I think social media is definitely one of the major reasons why. now you have to watch what you say bc it’s gonna be immediately broadcasted and some your 253655665 followers or insta or twitter are gonna overreact and go hurl abuse in another guy’s comments. and this is so lame.

right there with you anon. I've been wondering about the 'why are athletes these days so boring' question for years (not in motogp specifically) and one theory I've seen touted is just the increased professionalisation of sports, how much more all-consuming it is from childhood onwards - essentially suggesting athletes today don't have the time to develop a personality or cook up feuds lol. and I think there's probably something to that theory - the current demands of professional sports are inevitably producing some singularly single-minded athletes, far more pr-friendly and moulded into being acceptable to the average consumer... but the other part of the equation just has to be the incredible levels of scrutiny they're subjected to. social media and the rabid fanbases it helps cultivate have to be a part of that

I'm always wary of speaking too definitively about the vibes of an era I wasn't around to experience - obviously controversies back then were also, in fact, controversial, sometimes athletes had to walk back their comments, fanbases certainly were rabid... but it's all a question of degree, isn't it - and how relentless the content consumption is, the ferocity of the news cycle, how inescapable everyone's opinions on everything end up being. if you look at the general tone of the alien era, I just don't think that kind of thing would be possible nowadays. it really wasn't just valentino either, and it's always worth remembering the context of the time in which valentino rose through the ranks. his first major feud, after all, was with a notoriously abrasive rider who was hardly beloved by his non-valentino opponents - and let's not forget how he was physically threatened by two riders after his very first grand prix (to be clear, I am not endorsing threatening seventeen year olds and think it's probably quite good they don't do that anymore). god, if casey said some of the stuff he used to come out with nowadays, and not just about valentino either... the discourse, it would be bad. the jorge/dani feud too would surely have reached cataclysmic levels of toxicity

and there's a lot of people who say, 'well, why don't you think competitors can just be respectful to each other, why can't athletes just be tough in competition and friendly outside of it, why do you need everyone to hate each other' - look, I think it's fun! sports is supposed to be about extreme emotions, heightened emotions about these artificial contests that feel larger than life. in one sense, it really isn't that serious, but on the other hand it obviously couldn't be more serious. more important than life or death, as the cliché goes, or that orwell 'war minus the shooting' quote mat oxley is ever so fond of - but that's only because we ascribe it meaning. which allows it to exist in this fun zone where we can live out these bizarrely dramatic stories that are high on emotional stakes, but for all intents and purposes are rather less high on material stakes (certainly for the fan). it's a release of a kind, sometimes an escape. now, personally, I enjoy my drama with a little bit of edge, of nastiness, which I understand is a personal preference but don't think (as is sometimes suggested) means I am any less invested in the sporting side of the equation. it is the substance of the sport that provides the scaffolding for the human interest stories it generates, but fundamentally nobody would give a shit about sports without the human interest element - and to me, a feud is simply an extension of that principle

another probably controversial critique of the 'why can't everyone like each other' stance is that I just fundamentally believe it to be dishonest. or, look, maybe there are some competitors out there who can feel nothing but warmth and love in their hearts for the opponent who has just beaten them - which is very lovely for them, they're clearly far better people than I am. but I don't buy everyone feels that way and I also don't buy this is something that has changed with a generation or two. obviously, the norms within any given sport end up shaping how the athlete approaches competition, what they believe is acceptable to say or do, or even to think or feel. the emotions might be visceral, they may even resemble hate, but the question is to what extent we allow them to be expressed. if these people don't like each other, if they think uncharitable thoughts towards each other, then, y'know, let them have at it as far as I'm concerned. respect is overrated. and even when it's not just earnestly felt emotions, even when they really are just playing games, attempting to fuck with their rivals... well, that's the other question, is it. is it acceptable to deliberately attempt use 'psychological' tactics, perhaps even intimidation, to win a contest or not? to me, the answer is 'obviously yes' and 'that's how sports works', but I accept not everyone agrees lol

I have particularly little patience with this stance in motogp, I think, because the belief that 'riding in a manner that could physically hurt another human being' is an acceptable element of competition but 'not conforming to social niceties afterwards' is not feels viscerally absurd to me. now, the former just has to be countenanced to some degree or other as part of the moral calculus you are performing in even engaging with the sport, because fundamentally you cannot 'objectively' determine how much risk riders can acceptably put each other in before it crosses a moral line. as far as I'm concerned, then, you might as well have at least some patience for the latter too - we're already morally firmly in the grey here. and intimidation still happens, after all, mind games are still all the flavour... but there's this constant need for subtlety, to keep the nastier side of competing hush hush, that I find deeply tedious. sure, sometimes subtlety can be nice, but at this point it feels less like a personal preference and more an ironclad requirement. and this is the thing, right. sometimes, people are arseholes. professional athletes certainly are. sometimes, just like their fans, they feel violently extreme emotions. especially if they've just been competing. but of course, if every single controversy attracts such out-sized vitriol from fans, a moral referendum on everyone involved, a boiling pot of feverish partisanship... well, it's unsurprising if athletes try to steer clear from all that, isn't it

I also don't think we're going to get another feud that can get mentioned in the same breath as valentino's offerings any time soon, though perhaps next year we can have a good go at it. (ironically, of course, this is still an extension of one of his feuds - you have this built-in vitriol which I reckon at times allows it to worm its way past the filters all of these people have developed.) which, you know, I don't need them to artificially cook up feuds just for the sake of it. beyond broader trends between generations, obviously this is also a question of individual personalities and how they happen to interact with each other. if valentino's feuds are as good as it gets, I can live with that - I do still enjoy the sport plenty, am grateful to valentino for providing me so much good archival material to pour over and dissect, and don't want to ask for too much here. god knows, the current version of motogp is still highly dramatic by the standards of my main sport, and unfortunately I still watch that shit all the time. but it's still a bit of a shame that competitors don't seem to get a lot of choice in the matter these days. and it's a bit of a shame that fans seemingly prefer it this way, going by the vitriol they heap on athletes over any and every offence. it's also a bit of a shame that it feels like there's no real escaping the relentless partisanship of online fan spaces. personally I'm not all that into discoursing about whether things are 'good' or 'bad' and more into establishing whether something's 'interesting' and then thinking about it some more, which doesn't feel like much of an option if you for some reason ever get struck by the desire to interact with other fans online. but it is what it is, y'know. at least we'll always have that time valentino put a curse on a guy

[getmattbugged]

1, 3, 10, 19, 24? TD.

yay! :D Ty for the ask!!

1) the character everyone gets wrong

honestly I'm not super active in the TD fandom right now, I'm kinda just on the outer edges, so I'm not really sure off the top of my head? I've been sitting here thinking for at least five minutes and I don't know :'D

3) screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

honestly, there have been so many ass takes I've seen that none specifically come to mind! the ones where [character] would be [homo/transphobic/etc] are an ick for me. like yes, you do have to take canon into account and its respective time period, but when this comes up in AUs where shit like that isn't relevant or it's a modern AU, it's just like a cheap shot to make a character easily hateable, and it's often super out of character or just weird.

10) worst part of fanon

fanon is...an experience. I generally stay away from the really toxic stuff, or at least I try to! for me, it's probably people who use character backstories or the time period as an excuse for flaws and bad actions. like, yes, a person is obviously affected by their past and environment, but that doesn't mean it should excuse their actions. I believe in accountability, and things like that should be taken into mind when talking about characters imo

19) you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

ouuu, this is a can of worms!! this is pretty unserious but I hate how funny Duncan can be :') I want that man shot by twenty-four bullets to the torso. also, I am a Mal enjoyer, which though not super shameful, is something I don't generally admit

24) topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

easily shipping. people are so rabid, it's genuinely insane to me, especially as a multi shipper whose general philosophy is smashing fictional characters' faces together and going 'now kiss'...also a big mention for shipping discourse, coderra. coderra has caused so much beef, it's insane to me (although I personally do not ship coderra bc it weirds me out, ppl who get overly serious about it weird me out too)

[colorful-white-ideas]

Clearing up some things

Those of you who also follow skarsgardsnark must have seen this. Angry anon went again to that blog to complain about me , it was not enough with asking if someone could hack my account, no, she had to go again to make a fool of herself and keep this annoying other blog with her delusions.

" But how do you know it's the same person" Because this anon can´t help but use the word "HOE" in every message she sends.

I would have simply ignored it but this anon is spreading FALSE discourse about my blog and it pissed me off already. To make things long, im gona explain all the lies she put in there:

About LA anon , I have made clear from the start that we were just having FUN. If you weren't well that's too bad . My first reaction to that was calling it a lie. Proof here

I don't hate Bill as a father and I have never talked bad about the kids. I did talk bad about their PARENTING, especially when Alida's family and alida herself kept showing off Oona to the world. My very first post about the kid was calling out this behaviour and I stated that they should keep her face hidden, same thing with the sexplet incident and the cascade incident, etc. Here and Here I'm always advocating for the children to be away of the spotlight and have the best normal life they can. You love to compare me with mortox but fail to acknowledge that I have never EVER accepted that stupid theory of Bill's kids not being his. I always found it disgusting to use kids like that. Here Here Even for anons that try to use their children as props to proof if A & B are still together, I always answer that their family life is one thing and their relationship is ANOTHER . here , here

ALSO I would love for this anon to come up and link me one , just one single post where I was mean towards Alida because of her appearance. I questioned her fashion choices, that's true but I didn't crossed the line and called her cow , nun, grandma , etc, like other people do. In fact when she was in Bequia , back in 2022 , we saw her very veeery thin then , a lot of people said bad things but I reacted differently. Here

About the comparisons with simon , when Simon shared the rumor of Alida getting arrested for drunk driving I posted against it Here .I respected that blog because they never attacked me for having different views , they respected my stuff and I respected theirs. Sorry if your experience was different.

Now it's true that I had polemic posts and was a rabid critic of the whole ALIDA X BILL thing, those who have followed me since the beggining remember that, but everything I said was always within the limits , lets say. And the only day I went over was when I posted FUCK YOU BILL.

That was the week I decided to take a step back and cut off the parasocial relationship I was starting to develop. I moderated my content even more and I feel comfortable with it , I basically keep everything beetwing my followers , i dont use the Bill or Alida hashtags unless is necessary ... I don't mess with anyone , hell, I didn't even attacked mortox until she attacked me first and not even then I went other blogs asking if someone pls could do something about her . So yeah with this i'm putting an end to the lies this angry anon is telling about my place. If anyone has a problem with me , you are free to block me and live your life or you can come and debate but always with respect and without trying to start a campaign to silence me.

[f0point5]

https://www.tumblr.com/f0point5/767683540890550272/in-the-nicest-way-possibleyes-you-do-lando

In this same article he admits to reading the hate comments. This also kinda makes me not feel so sympathetic towards his mental health that people are so concerned about. If this grown ass man's mental health is so fragile, the number one thing he could do is not read hate about himself.

But I think this whole article is bullshit, it sounds a lot like they are trying to push this narrative where he's a victim of unfair criticism and he did nothing wrong and he's the most fair and accountable driver.

I'm trying so hard to not criticise him myself, and am trying to give him grace. But man, is he making it fucking hard day by day. He already knows about himself he's not the most eloquent giving interviews, why does he need to go on and give this one as well?😭 Just shut the fuck up for once

The thing is, I sort of get what he means and I sort don’t. Because the hate comments are complete lunacy. You can read 100 hate comments and 99 of them are just cruel and uncalled for. Maybe one will have some actual reasoning buried in the nastiness. And if you read that, it’s fair to say “I don’t know how people who don’t know me can hate me so much”.

But at the same time, if you’ve read the hate comments, I guarantee you’ve also read the genuine criticism or discussion about the things that you’ve said. The discourse where people actually mention why what you said sounded bad to them. You’re probably not only seeing the vitriol without coming across one actually coherent comment.

And you can take it on board or not, choose to reflect on it or not, whatever. But saying “I have no idea why people don’t like me” and “people hate on me for no reason” really comes across as disingenuous and very wilfully unaware.

I’m not going to speak on his mental health because that’s really between him and his therapist and his friends and family. I don’t know about his mental health. It must be very hard to avoid engaging with what’s being said about you while being 25 and famous. I get that. I personally think that his fans weaponise his mental health but I’m not going to say he’s doing that because I don’t think he considers himself to be as fragile as the rabid fans pretend he is. I think Lando shares his feelings honestly not necessarily with the intentions that parasocials take up for him because they’re deluded.

Again, I think Lando was talking about himself from his own perspective. So it’s not that the article is bs, it’s just Lando from Lando’s point of view. It’s eye opening about how divorced his self image seems from how a lot of people see him.

I feel like he was trying to walk the line of being respectful of people having opinions while also trying to appear like he’s not hurt by it. For me you either have to do a Max and say “I actually do not give a fuck what you think or why” or you have to admit that it’s important to you how people feel about you and you have to actually do the work to represent yourself better. It’s like he doesn’t want to change how he goes about things, but also wants people to receive his actions and comments differently. And that’s not how it works.

I have an unending amount of empathy for how shitty is must feel to read hate about yourself and how heavy of an experience fame is. The way people talk about him is just so mean. He shouldn’t have to read that or deal with it.

But it’s a bit frustrating to hear him talk about it as if it’s come out of thin air.

[causesciencethatswhy]

ok honestly, how does this not sound like a jimin anti?

it’s funny that people’s first assumption is that jungkook lied to jimin just like how it was assumed he told jimin he was busy and not to go see him when jimin was the one who went to an event on jungkook’s birthday then went live.

all these times he could’ve gone to see jungkook if he was indeed doing nothing. but you are all just dying to have something to hate jk over.

and tbh this kind of annoys me about jikook and have for years, like they always downplay their (assumed) friendship. if you're best friends why not act like it? like honestly. makes it hard to defend their friendship when they themselves downplay it.

and idc about any sort of ~privacy argument, who the fuck is private about a friendship with their own member

also makes no sense for jimin to post that picture on instagram which was posted for FANS not for jungkook then for him to come on live and imply he hasn't seen jungkook because he's busy (when jungkook now said he wasn't).

he posted a pic to show they're close but then comes on live to imply the opposite? ok.

in the past they’d do or say something that would make it obvious how close they are (at least good friends) but not so much these days. i’m just tired of the weirdness.

i always said (to myself) if they were acting as proper best friends at least it would be easier for me to not be delusional. but are we really expected to believe that jimin would fly to the us for jk’s debut when he didn’t have to but he can’t make it on his bday when jk is doing nothing?

like he could’ve said he’ll go see him soon or something if he felt fans would call him out on them not meeting on jk’s bday for the first time since they’ve known each other?

why would he come on live repeating that it’s jk bday and fans should wish him a happy bday when he himself wouldn’t go see him when that makes no sense? it’s just annoying.

them pretending the us trip never happened when it’s right in front of us and everyone knows about it, them also pretending jk never did the bg vocals on letter like why?

did jimin not give jk a copy of face or is he keeping it somewhere else for some unknown reason?

jimin refusing to do a live for who knows what reason but now he wants to copy the kind of lives jk has been doing. none of this weirdness ever happens with any of the members.

and I knew for a fact when jimin showed his flat all the tkkers will try to push dating rumours. so if he wants to do more lives we have that to look forward to even more. yay🙄

Look anon, Mimi had addressed all of this when they had written these posts already with explanations of what they intended. As they've said before their frustration was geared towards the expected reaction to jkks words from the fandom (which was always to downplay their relationship) which seeped into their interpretation of jkk. Yeah, it could have been worded better but it was written in a heated moment, something they're already aware of.

Whether we like to admit it or not, staying hyper aware of fandom discourse can colour how we interact with the members and their words and the anticipation of the discourse that'll steep out of it can sometimes makes us almost hold it against the member themselves than the group of rabid fans hellbent on twisting their words. I still remember when I was at a point where I got frustrated with Tae a while back because the expected discourse from his words bothered me more than the actual words he was saying. It's where we have to catch ourselves when dealing with something like parasocial relationships where boundaries between fan reaction and interaction are so murky.

As someone who has talked to mimi about everyone jkk I can say confidently say they're the farthest thing from a j/m anti and love him very thoroughly. If you think otherwise you're free to block them and myself, instead of exposing yourself to content which you know makes you mad.