#again I listen to kpop groups with lots of teen members etc but I just could not stan them

[6ebe]

So weird to me how ‘maybe it’s weird to be a grown adult stanning 16 year olds’ is a controversial opinion like in the comments of a YouTube video that reacted to it as an ‘unpopular opinion’ I couldn’t see a single person agreeing with it. And maybe I’m just the weird one. Like no I don’t think of every person I stan in a romantic or sexual way like I’m literally a lesbian who stans lots of male artists. I just genuinely don’t see why on Earth a grown adult would want to be invested in celebrity children. But then I also no longer see any appeal to high school based content and did the day I turned 18 purposefully and consciously change the ways I interacted with people younger than me and put age restricted dfis on my account so 🤷‍♀️

[maiathebee]

Comprehensive Bibliography Of BTS

This is just a list of material referenced, alluded to or related to BTS’s concepts, music, photobooks, albums and music videos.  This is not a fan theory, or an attempt at one! Anyways here’s the precursor to my scholarly paper, lolllll (I’m not joking though).  I’ll update it as we goooooo....

Also, I know almost nothing about the School trilogy, but it’s my understanding that there’s not a lot of outside source material.  I could be wrong though.  Does it reference mangas and stuff??? send me a msg if you know.

(just a reminder that while BTS is remarkably involved in the creative direction of the group, the formation of a kpop groups’ era/concept is made by a large team of people, and therefore the members probably haven’t even considered or explored upwards of half the material on this list).

(asterisks mean that these works are not directly referenced by BTS in their interviews, lyrics or imagery, etc, but which are still tangentially related)

BTS book club list is as follows:

Shim Cheong - a Korean Panseori tale (Dark and Wild)

Demian by Hermann Hesse (Wings)

Seven Sermons to the Dead by Carl Jung (Wings)*

The Collected Works of CG Jung by Carl Jung (Wings)*

Thus Spoke Zarathustra by F. Nietzsche (Wings)

Beyond Good and Evil by F. Nietzsche (Wings)*

The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas by Ursula K Le Guin  (YNWA) 

The Moral Philosopher and The Moral Life by William James  (YNWA)*

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky (YNWA)*

Le Transperceneige by Jacques Lob (YNWA)

Then here’s the film club list:

She and Her Cat (dir. Makoto Shinkai)(short film) (HYYH pt.2)(this is according to Bang PD)

Lost River (dir. Ryan Goslin) (Young Forever)

Big Fish (dir. Tim Burton) (reason here)  (YNWA)

The Helpers/No Vacancy (dir. Chris Stokes) (YNWA)* (tbh this seems fairly coincidental to me, which is why it gets an asterisk.

Snowpiercer (dir. Bong Joon Ho) (YNWA)

BTS music playlist:

Wild For The Night by A$AP rocky (Dark & Wild)

Friday Night Lights by J.Cole (Dark & Wild)

2001 by Dr. Dre (Dark & Wild)

花樣的年華 - Zhou Xuan (HYYH pt.1/pt.2)*

Nevermind - Nirvana (HYYH pt.2)

Wasted Youth (HYYH pt.2)

Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd (Young Forever)

Passacaglia in D minor (BuxWV 161) - Buxtehude (Wings)

You’ll Never Walk Alone - Louis Armstrong (YNWA)* (100% this isn’t a purposeful reference, but it’s a good song, y’all should listen to it)

BTS’s art history class bibliography:

Julius Caesar on Gold by Basquiat (Young Forever)

Tricycle by Basquiat and Warhol (Young Forever)*

Orange Sports Figure by Basquiat (Young Forever)

The Fall of the Rebel Angels - Bruegel the Elder (Wings)

The Landscape with the Fall of Icarus - Bruegel the Elder (Wings)

The Lament for Icarus - Draper (Wings)

La Pieta by Michelangelo (Wings)

Personnes by Christian Boltanski (YNWA)*

Further Analysis (and more fan-theory type stuff) in chronological order,  under this read more~~

I’m not sure there’s meant to be a single “correct” reading of the group’s narrative or story. Even in Wings, which drew its story fully from Demian, the ultimate narrative of the BST M/V is more vague.  While there might be a complete and overarching narrative that Bighit is trying to create with Bangtan’s concepts/mvs, I think it’s more likely that there are a lot of narrative threads running through the story, and some are maintained longterm, some are relevant only to as specific chapter, while others are merely aesthetic/cosmetic.  I have a feeling that even longterm narrative ideas are sometimes allowed to fade away for the benefit of moving the story forward at the pace they want. 

Dark and Wild

Shim Cheong is just a throwaway simile on hip hop lover.  I’m pretty sure it’s a reference to the idea that seeing Shim Cheong again allowed her blind father to gain the ability to see.

References like the one to Wild for the Night on hiphop lover (they also tweeted about the song back in 2013) don’t really do much except show that they genuinely like/listen to American rap and also it explains at least 66% of the dumb mistakes Rap Monster has made, probably, my poor problematic child.  Hip Hop lover references a ton of artists, but I just included the ones that are mentioned by more than just name.

The Most Beautiful Moment In Life (pt.1/pt.2)

Zhou Xuan is the first media reference point for HYYH (花樣年華)(It’s what the Chinese title for In the Mood For Love is based on). The lyrics refer to forgotten dreams.

Wong Kar Wai’s In the Mood For Love (花樣年華) is not listed, as RM mentioned in the interview that this was not associated with their album. 

Notes of a Desolate Man by Tianwen Shu is excerpted in a Taiwanese literary anthology by the name of  花樣年華, and I though think it relates thematically, it’s merely my own personal association~ There’s no indication that BTS or Bighit even knows it exists.  Tianwen Shu is greatly influenced by Lu Xun, who wrote the anti-confucian societal norms novel, A Madman’s Diary. 

Nirvana t-shirts are a go to for BTS’s stylists, probably MOSTLY because they fit their preferred grunge image, but the word “Nirvana” fits well into the ideas of tragedy/death, utopia/dystopia and idealism that BTS plays with, while Nirvana the band is obviously a good reference point for realistic portrayals of youth culture and music which speaks to young people, particularly the crazy popular Nevermind (ahem Yoongi’s intro song) with Smells Like Teen Spirit and Come As You Are.  (further fan theory here)

It’s crazy to me that Bang PD found inspiration in a five minute anime about a cat, but read the wiki summary and you’ll believe him:  “When it's over She cries and becomes depressed. Chobi does not understand what the conversation was about or what happened but concludes that it was not her fault. He stands by her and comforts her. Time goes on and it becomes winter. She continues going to work and moves on with her life. In the end Chobi and She are happy with their life together and say in unison, 'This world, I think we like it.’”

Fire (Young Forever)

Pink Floyd’s “Wish You Were Here” thematically deals with youth/nostalgia (Shine On You Crazy Diamond: "Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun").  It includes critiques of the music industry and the cliches that the group had to deal with.  The narrative of Wish You Were Here is very much in line with Bangtan’s overall group narrative.

Lost River (a phrase you can see on a wall in the Fire M/V) is a film about a poor community, and specifically a mother and her two sons, going through crisis.  The film includes a scene of a party in an abandoned high school and ends with both a house and a car on fire. The film has an open ending which leaves room for an improved future, but the film is primarily about the limited possibilities and opportunities

As far as I can tell, the “Basquiat” paintings in the fire M/V are just imitations rather than references to specific paintings.  They’re probably being used just as an aesthetic choice - Basquiat’s art was a synthesis of street art, outsider art, social commentary and post-expressionism.  However, his life is also relevant narratively: he died young at 27 and he first gained fame as a graffiti artist.

I’m not putting it above because the film is super inappropriate, but the phrase “enter the void” is used in the Run M/V, and could refer to the Gaspar Noe film of the same name.  The title of that film is, in fact, a reference to The Tibetan Book of the Dead.  However, the term “void” (and the images of the void in the M/V) could just be a reference to five elements in Japanese Buddhism (including fire), particularly the Book of Five Rings.  But this is me getting uber fan theory, lol.

Another graffitied phrase in the Run M/V is “wasted youth.”  This could be one of three things; a reference to the hardcore punk band, Wasted Youth, an allusion to Fast Times at Ridgemont High which also includes a scene featuring “wasted youth” graffitied on a wall, or the phrase isn’t an allusion, but merely a description of the M/V concept.

Wings

The relationship to Demian needs its own post, so I won’t even go into it itself, but the tangential references it spawned are as follows:

The paintings in the Wings video are all in reference to Demian but are also all biblical/mythological in nature, based on the book of revelations, Ovid’s The Art of Love,  and the crucifixion.  The religious references, however, are dulled down -- Jesus is not fully sculpted, leaving him to be a vaguely carved form and allowing the image to stand more as an allegory for the relationship between mother and “son” in Demian.  (some further fan analysis of the art here)(and more specifically on the use of icarus).

The Passacaglia is also a piece which is referred to in Demian in the part of the book where the narrator begins to find spiritual fulfillment through music and art, something BTS talks about a lot.

Demian draws lot from Carl Jung, particularly his ideas about symbolism, archetypes and psychoanalysis.  The book specifically alludes to Jung’s Seven Sermons, and the idea that Abraxas is the ultimate being, uniting both god and the devil.  Thematically, through Demian, this deals with themes of forming ones’ own moral code, and ideas of will and strength of character, with good and evil being both at odds but also simultaneously part of everything. This theory/concept in largely influenced by Nietzsche, most especially his Beyond Good and Evil.  Together these are all philosophies which pull away from the ideas of societal norms or strict social structures and place a premium on personal/creative expression.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra (quoted in the Wings photobook and BST M/V) also furthers this idea that good and evil are “a wheel.”  It posits that Truth (not morality) is the highest virtue and that idealists flee from reality (SEE: Icarus).  The novel also introduces the idea of the overman, which is a gross idea and super problematic, but I can it being applied thematically to BTS as the idea of a ‘fully realized self.’  Zarathustra is a figure Nietzsche borrowed from Zoroastrianism.  (this writer has more ideas on some connections to Nietzsche).

You Never Walk Alone

“Omelas” and the theme of walking obviously references the Le Guin story, which is inspired by the William James essay, which in turn borrows ideas from Dostoyevsky.

Namjoon’s reference Snowpiercer plays into the video’s visual narrative (an inescapable cycle, the train, the cyclical nature of seasons, laundry is a cycle [2mjjk theory speaks to all these, lol]) as the story is about a train which circles the globe, in a world stuck in perpetual winter. Unlike the more environmentally-focused graphic novel, Snowpiercer the (korean-directed) film is intensely focused on class inequality, a theme which runs through BTS’s albums (see particularly Baepsae, but it’s a concern relevant to their School series, since most pressures put on students are related to social class) and which is of incredible concern to Korean people, and therefore is a common concern of a lot of Korean art.  Bong Joon Ho’s other film works are all very heavy on social commentary  (the host deals with the american military and politics/activism, sea fog also talks about social inequality... etc...), so referencing one of his films is a pretty clear statement that you are making a critical commentary on something.  Like the Le Guin short story The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas, the film is about a dystopia in which the upper class/middle class/general public is reliant on the continual suffering of another (in this class the lower class or last train) to survive.  Trains provide a very easy metaphor for class given their class divisions into separate carriages.  This was also applied in another Korean blockbuster from the last year, Train to Busan (dir Yeon Sang-ho), which included some pretty transparent commentary on the negative effect that an apathetic, self-serving, lazy (male) middle-aged, middle-class could have on the survival of families and younger generations.

Most fan theories agree that the clothes in the M/V are a reference to the sewol ferry disaster.  Here is the fan explanation for how that connects to Boltanski’s Personnes.

[yozoramg]

Kpop industry and educating artists

I reacted on an up to date Kpop scandal video on y-tube. I decided to post my reaction/rant here also. And this is why we, in the future, have only very restricted kpop music/shows/dramas. Or they just restrict it more for the western culture and keep everything within South Korea. South Korea, where they are certain how most fans/others react. Where artists know what to do or don't. What is and is not accepted.

More and more kpop artists tell us that they are afraid of telling something on whatever social media platform. They are scared to say something wrong in an interview, on vlive, on reality shows, in real life. They are scared to wear the wrong t-shirt, because they didn't know fully 100% what the print on the shirt meant because of an English or whatever language barrier. They are scared to offend a culture (which ever culture doesn't matter), because kpop artists are human (no seriously, they are). And just like you and me, can't know every ins and outs of every culture excising.

- If they cut/braid/color their hair in a specific way they are called racist and are being told to set them selves (and their families, who are of course just as guilty for educated them in this way) on fire. - If they make a weight joke to someone else, something that is accepted entertainment in South Korea and some other countries, people are offended (mostly non Koreans) and they are told to get whatever awful illness there is in the world and die from it. (Yes, I don't like weight jokes either and don't understand them, but that is besides the point here.) - If they make a reference to a dark skinned artist they are immediately in the picture and every sentence the artist said is being dissected, because... maybe he/she said something that could offend whatever culture. And if the 'fandom' 'found' something (even if it is after weeks of searching) it will spread over social media and maybe even the regular news.

Korean artists got even attacked for using a Korean word that sounded similar to a curse word for someone who is black in English. Yes I’m serious. ‘Fans’ even attacked the Korean language and called it racist. And if said artist who made this 'gigantic' offense is unlucky and from (for example) a smaller company, it could be 'bye bye' job. And 'hello' being on blacklists everywhere. (Or maybe they are male and 'lucky' and can join the army sooner than planned and hope that, when they return, everything calmed down and people have forgotten about their offense.)

But of course before said criminal artist is told to off her/him self, they are getting a chance to apologizes. Fans, mostly non Koreans, decide to 'educate' said artist on the culture they offended (one of the 10.000.000 cultures and their rules). They do this by flooding their social media accounts/personal accounts and family accounts with messages about what they think the artist did wrong and sometimes how to better him/her self. That a lot of those messages differ from each other, because a lot of rumors and hearing it from this person, who heard it from the person who has a friend who watched the from Chinese translated Korean interview (and so no one knows exactly what did happen), doesn't matter. Said Korean artists has to listen and has to be 'educated' like a five year old. And has to apologizes afterwards. When she/he did, it's up to the hurt/offended fans/others and all those others who joined the -I am offended because I heard I should be offended because of this and this reason wagon-, to decide if the apology was sincere enough. (I think you could compare it to voting for whatever politic something) If ,say, 30% find the written apology not enough or doesn't trust the sincerity of the apology, like I said, then 'sh*t hits the fan. (And guess what... It's impossible to get a 100% vote for anything.) Humans are humans and human opinions differ from each other.

Everyone knows what happens afterwards. More and more death treats. Old 'crimes' the artist/or the group he/she is in, or the company committed, are getting 'a new life'. And the offended people are getting only more and more offended. Then there is the group that defend and 'defend' said artist. Which results in people talking about the happening for maybe even months to come. Really great. Especially for said artists. Why?

Let me explain to you how the Korean Culture and entertainment industry works most of the time (wish me luck with my limited English knowledge). Even though most rookies have a, for example, dating ban. Lot's are still dating (sorry to break your heart). Why? Because companies are very good in keeping a 'blind eye' to it. BUT, if it is found out and (doesn't even matter if it's true or not) and the rumor is spread and turned into a so called 'scandal', it's a whole different story. Then it depends what actions will be taken by a company. And what action has to do with many different factors of course.

- How important is the artist to the company. How is the artist seen by the public at that moment, Is the company big enough so they have money to cover everything up, how much money will the scandal cost the company, etc, etc. But most important: how big was the damage done to the image of the company. If the last is big enough, you can be almost certain that a company will let an artist go. Or persuade them to leave on their own. The dating ban was an example. But what I said above, goes for almost everything.

LGBTQ artists, pasts of artists, caught smoking, caught having sex, others who find it entertaining to set a Korean artist in a very black light, the artist having debts, artist using whatever drugs, artists who doesn't want to go to the army, artists who bully, artists who's getting bullied (Yep, even them), artists who were found out they had plastic surgery ... (come one! Everyone can see that there are many of them. Some teens get it as present when they finished high school or something similar...), Kpop artists who are from another country/culture and make cultural mistakes. The list is endless.

If it damages the image of a company, doesn't matter if you're 'at fault' or not, you have a big chance to -get nicely told- to pack your bags and leave everything you most likely trained for foryears. Leave your group members (if you had any) Leave your dorm and stand empty handed on the street with nothing. Most Korean artists trained and prepared themselves from childhood for the idol life. Not that many idols have an education that has nothing to do with music or acting or something similar. If they want to go back to the music industry but their name isn't 'cleared', there is a big chance lots of tv programs, companies, etc put them on a blacklist. Which simply means: no work. And even if the artists name is ‘cleared’. Everyone will remember. The artists image was damaged and will stay probably damaged. If a Korean artist is more lucky the company could force them (and their group) to 'take a break' and 'think about what they did so 'horribly wrong'. Those breaks are most likely to last half a year or longer. It doesn't stop there either. If an artist makes 'a mistake' there is a big chance that it affects said artist family as well. Like I said: image is for most a very big thing in South Korea. If the image of a family is damaged the family could go through some very heavy backlash from it. They could be even shunned by their community.

And don't tell that everything isn't ' this extreme' because it is. If you follow Korean artists for a long time. Educate yourself in the Korean Culture, you'll find MANY examples.

Remember those artists who were forced to go on hiatus and apologize with a shaved head because something offensive they 'said' in another country that also was translated not fully correct in English afterwards? The group that sometimes afterwards got white in the face when the one who took the interview stopped talking or if said person taking the interview asked if they were sure about the answer they gave? Because they were scared they said something 'wrong' again. That traumatized group? No? Because I do. Remember a poor Korean artist who, for almost a week, was being cyber-bullied by bullies from all over the world who spread the rumor that said person was a rapist and should also be sexually assaulted in the most horrible ways possible. Nope? ... Or do you? Remember that Korean artist who lost his/her father and had a difficult time handling it. Fell asleep during an interview and got attacked because of it, because he/she -didn't take his job seriously and was too egoistically.- That girl/guy who everyone said was most likely on drugs (something that is very illegal in Korea. Something that, when being accused of this, will most likely force further investigation by authorities), because she/he fell asleep? Want to know what happened to that guy/girl? He/she left her/his group because of 'musically differences' with the rest of the band. Remember the Korean artist who had someone who spread rumors about the artists past and left his/her group because of the negative image it could give the group? Want to know which case I meant? ... Yeah exactly. That's my point. Remember that artist that was being bullied/educated/threatened/abused/ignored/left empty handed because of stupid rumors and got depressed and eventually committed suicide? You do? Of course you do...

It's up to everyone individually to be offended/hurt by something said. Because of discrimination. Because of a traumatic event(s) you went through which what said artists did or said reminded you off. Because others told you that you have to be hurt of it, because they tell you it was wrong what was said/done.

It's up to everyone individually to take action for said/doing those hurtful/offensive or 'hurtful/offensive' things by the artist. But just know that your actions have consequences for the Korean idol because of all these mentioned above. Be prepared to face the consequences your 'taking action' has on said Korean artist. When you see yourself as an old and wise/a responsible adult enough to educate a Korean idol grownup or even teen, about the wrongdoings this world has, then stay this old and wise/a responsible adult afterwards. Know that, whatever the outcome your actions has, you are also responsible for those outcomes. Accept the consequences and damage your actions maybe did. Don't you dare say "This wasn't what I wanted to happen".

If this information above is all new for you, or you still don't believe it. I suggest you read a bit more about this specific culture and on the entertainment industry in general. Educate yourself more on that, what you find yourself wise enough for to educate others about, and have a say in their way of living and thinking.

First have knowledge about the things you're talking about, before you try to convince others. More people should do this in my opinion. (sorry for all the grammar and spelling mistakes. I'm just a Dutch woman who is no where near fluent in the English language.)