#all I know is luke skywalker is def my favorite character of all time in history

[kendalroys]

10 favourite fictional characters (5 male/5 female)

I was tagged by @fredweasleying

Tag 10 ppl: @jynersoandor @frnakcaslte @ladytharen @jynersoandor @andyoudoctor @allisonscott @reyskeywalker @baenakinskywalker @agentdunhams @geniusparker 

male characters: 

1) Luke Skywalker 2) Frank Castle 3) Jonah Simms 4) Jake Peralta 5) Will Turner / Lucifer Morningstar 

female characters:  1) Jyn Erso 2) Amy Santiago  3) Elizabeth Swann Turner 4) Iris West 5) Kate Fuller / Karen Page

[commander-spaceboy]

Sorry I've posted some of this writing to here already, but a large majority of it is sitting in a google docs that none of you have access to lol, comments and feedback are welcome and encouraged

I’m Finally starting on my rewrite of the Star Wars sequels, I’m literally throwing away everything that happens in the actual movies and just starting out with my own shit, Basically,,, instead of more bull shit first order and “jedi” centric stuff, I’m throwing in a bunch of bounty hunters into the mix

Since the movies follow the skywalker bloodline, I’m starting off by creating children for Leia and Han,, They are both force probably force sensitive, since they are part of the skywalker lineage, but neither of them have trained to harnesses it, instead the younger brother learns about the senate and helps out his mother and grandfather organa anyway he can senate wise, while his sister is off doing god knows what with their father, (probably keeping him in check honestly)

So basically u get a Ben solo and a ray skywalker but they are already written in a better way because they are siblings, we know who the girls parents are, and you can’t ship them because that would be incest!!

Changed my mind already on the roles of the siblings, they're both probs force sensitive, but like, neither of them really care all too much, like they think it’s cool and all, but not for them, instead the younger brother is helping his mother and grandfather organa in the senate, and the sister keeps their dad in check lol

Which, working in the senate is a *very* easy way to get a target on your head, and also being anywhere near Han Solo is a very easy way to get a target on your back, which would give bounty hunters a reason to have a bounty on them

It would have to get more specific but you get the jist

A Jedi probably comes in the form of a padawan Luke has been training who hears of the bounty on the kids heads and takes action to alert and protect them (only to find out both of them are perfectly capable of handling themself

I think it would be funny though if the padawan was the one who ends up getting kidnapped or something by bounty hunters and the person who made the bounty is like “is is very obviously not the fucking kid I put a bounty for???” And then the siblings have to save the Jedi’s ass

I think a Nautolan Jedi padawan would be cool

Bounty hunters am I right????

Lol can take place over the span of like 15 years like the prequels did, orrrrr it can take like 3 or 4 like the og’s did

Have to have some mention of commander Cody in there, otherwise, how will people know it's my fanfiction?

Have something similar to the prequels happen where someone in the senate is sending out bounties for people who oppose them and their ideals. Throughout the movie you are led to believe it is this specific senator, but after they have been taken to jail another bounty hunter shows up and shoots a main character, and that's how the first movie is left off.

WHAT IF:

THE SIBLINGS START TO HAVE AN ANAKIN AND OBI-WAN LIKE RELATIONSHIP, BUT TOWARDS THE END OF THE MOVIES ANAKIN AND OBI-WAN SHOW UP IN ALL OF THEIR SEXY GHOST GLORY AND ARE LIKE, “FIX THIS BULLSHIT OR YOU WILL END UP IN THE SAME PLACE WE DID.

(but it would be more like younger brother perfect and can do no wrong because he is mothers favorite, older sister who does things her own way and at her own speed and because she sees her brother as being the better sibling she feels she cant talk to him about anything that she's going through)

(obv. Not everything between them is going to be solved with a couple of nice words from their sibling, but it would set things in the right direction, and they would know that they are able to confide in each other if need be [say if one of them were to be having a panic attack while mace windu is confronting the senate ™ and need to be comforted and stopped from intervening in a bad way], its important to know you have someone there basically)

At the start the younger brother is like 15 at the least and 17 at the most, but he is very much into the senate and trying his best to become a senator when he gets older, but he gets dragged into gun fights with his sister, father and the stray jedi they picked up at some point

The sister is probably min 19 max 21 so like a 4 year difference between the siblings, even if her mother wanted her to follow in her footsteps and be a peacekeeper and a senator, she followed her father right out into space to cause some ruckus at a space bar and gather more bounties on their heads.

Once again bounty hunters play a big part in this set of movies, I want to have a couple of prominent ones show up, (like not ones that have been seen before in the franchise but like ones that will stick around for a while like a gross piece of gum to your shoe)

Maybe at some point after one gets a little too close to the siblings and realizes they are literally just kids who are scared for their lives and not trying to cause shit they r like “must protect these children!!!” then they get shot and now the heros have a massive fucking problem with people!!!

Obv they will have a bigger role than just trying to kill the main kids, but like, that's their endgame goal.

So I guess in the first movie they would be completely separate from each other, only getting to hear from the other through holos and word of mouth. They still have a somewhat decent relationship with each other at this point, friendly banter as per use.

The second they would spend more time apart then together, but they are together on screen at some points, tension is always high with them. the relationship ship isn't the worst at this point, but as per usual with the skywalkers they def. Dont communicate with each other like they should. And fight with each other verbally a lot.

And in the third they spend most of it together till they get to a tipping point with each other and fight with the intent to actually harm each other, n then the ghosts of obw-wan and anakin show up and r like “Hey what the fuck???” and they realize that they are both having problems they need the others' help to take care of.

Think it would be really funny if one of the two of them marries the jedi during like the second movie, and just like,,, does not tell the other, like skywalker did with padme and obi-wan,,,, i could do so many parallels,,, so many

[drnucleus]

I don’t know what to expect from IX. I’m really hoping it is endgame and they don’t just drop the romance angle, but it’s also kind of what I’m expecting? Like I don’t expect follow-through from it, even though I would love it if it happened

Hi Nonnie, 

I totally get it. I understand that completely. Do I think it’s endgame? Yes. 

However am I going into IX with any expectations? NOPE. I’m a fandom granny. No seriously I have lived through so many fandoms that I simply go in with no expectations. That way if what I think might happen if even in some small way happens then I will be super happy and overjoyed and if it doesn’t I am usually able to divorce myself from my disappointment and respect the creator’s vision.

As a writer and someone who was professionally trained to do so, I know that creators have a vision. They have an endgame in mind. And they drop breadcrumbs about it from the beginning and if you’re clever enough to see them you usually can figure out any story. 

This is why I ruin police procedurals for my mom. My dad and I made a game of it watching Law and Order as a kid growing up (and I mean OG Law and Order with Det. Lenny Briscoe). Whomever could figure out who committed the murder first won. We used to keep a running tally. My dad was really good at it, but when I got really into reading and started reading mystery novels and horror novels and other stories that rely heavily on mystery boxes I started getting better at it. We also watched Law and Order because my two actor 2nd cousins have been guest stars as defense lawyers idk how many times but that’s neither here nor there.

And tbh ESB’s twist of Vader as Luke’s father came as such a shock because IDK if even Lucas really knew he was going to do it until he did it. Luckily the story was vague enough in ANH that a throw away line about certain points of view was enough to close what could have been a crippling plot hole. 

My mom is an OG Star wars fan. Mostly bc she loves the pew pew and the lightsaber battles, and secondly because Harrison Ford is a very handsome and talented man (tbh my first crush was Han Solo and second was Indy).

My mom was there when everyone was UP IN ARMS about Leia and Luke kissing. And how that was SOOOOOO going to be endgame. Which originally Lucas had intended that Leia would be a love interest for Luke and that the twin sister would be revealed in 7, 8 and 9 someday. However during writing ROTJ and filming ESB he decided to really hone in on Leia and Han’s chemistry (granted Irving was directing then) but he made the narrative choice to make Leia the sister and Han her love interest. It simultaneously elevated Leia’s narrative importance and made her the leading lady of her own story on equal footing to her equally powerful twin brother instead of just being Luke’s sidekick love interest.

Even when I was a KID and I saw ESB it always kind of made me laugh that Leia’s response to Han goading her about liking him was to smack lips with the only other humanoid male in the room just to prove how NOT smitten she was with Han. (AND if that doesn’t make her simultaneously Padme and Anakin’s child I don’t know what will convince you otherwise).

TPM came out when was was 13 and a half which will be 20 yrs ago next May - HOLY FUCK. And I’ve been an avid reader since I could read so I had gobbled up countless numbers of books by then. I was in the theater with my parents and legit held my hand up over Ian’s eyes and gasped and tugged on my mom’s sleeve. 

“Mom that’s THE EMPEROR” and she was like “No honey he’s just a senator who’s now chancellor of the republic”

And this was still in the age of Dial-up internet and no IMDB. So I did my own digging and found our VHS copies of the OT and looked at the cast listing at the end of the movie. And saw the same name playing the Emperor as the man playing Senator-Chancellor Sheev Palpatine. Now the movies in the OT never actually say the Emperor’s real name. He’s just the shadowy, scary Emperor with lightning bolts shooting out of his hands. So like we knew in TPM that Palpy was going to become the emperor. Now say what you will about the Prequels but Lucas did do a fair bit of narrative arc planning with it than what he threw together with the OT. 

He knew we had to meet Anakin as a boy, see him as a caring and compassionate individual who is uniquely gifted in the Force. And that had circumstances been different he would have probably been the paragon force sensitive and balanced the force. However due to realistic flaws of all characters, good and bad alike, including flaws within Anakin’s character himself he falls prey to the darkside and it’s temptations and then becomes the very thing he feared.

Tbh next to TLJ, ROTS is right up there with ESB as my favorite in the saga. Sure the dialogue is wooden and clunky. Lucas is not a dialogue director. He’s a vision director. He has a scene in his mind, and he wants it played like that. Which is fine. He also came from a school of thought in the 1970s where sci-fi was pure camp and overdramatic. His style never really changed. The OT is so lauded because he didn’t direct all of them. He had other people come in and he had script doctoring and his first wife in the editing room taking his vision and turning it into a cohesive narrative. We seem to forget that Lucas was a young dude right out of film school when he made ANH. He barely knew how to string a narrative together and the early cuts of ANH were terrible and nowhere near what people saw in the theater. Don’t believe me? Google “how star wars was saved in the editing room” it’s a remarkable story about how Lucas’s first wife and principal editor basically made ANH into an actual story instead of a mish mash of ideas that it was before. The prequels had Lucas at the helm for all three. Yes by then he had gotten a hold of narratively what he wanted to convey, but he still didn’t always convey it in the most efficient ways.

But there are moments in the prequels that I’m stunned by their perfection. “This is how liberty dies? With thunderous applause.” as Padme watches in horror as the Republic becomes an empire before her eyes. It’s perfect to convey the horror she feels and her disgust at what the thing she’s fought for so long to just crumble and slip away. 

Or the entirety of the Anakin v. Obi Wan Mustafar battle. Visually STUNNING, and heartbreaking. You can feel how much neither of them want to fight the other but how they both are so entrenched in their now opposite ideologies that they know they have to fight. 

I’ve also been a fan of JJ’s for a long time. 

Sure he loves mystery boxes but he usually makes the answer SO obvious that most people ignore it. 

Like on Lost which I never actually watched save for maybe a few episodes, it’s pretty clear that something metaphysical is going on in that island with the crash. And there are clues dating back to the pilot as to what happened in the finale. 

In TFA we’re introduced to Rey. We’re given a mystery box of who is Rey and why is she important and who is her family. But we’re also given the answer. She’s no one. And that’s why she’s important. She is no one. She doesn’t need to have this huge galactic sized legacy on her shoulders to be important, to be special. SHE IS NO ONE. And that’s why the Force chose her as its vessel. 

Reason why is that she’s narratively the perfect foil for her counterpart Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. He has all that legacy and weight on his shoulders. They’re equals in power in strength, in light and darkness. They are complete equals. And TFA was all about establishing that fact. Now TLJ was all about deepening that initial connection. To get them both to scratch beneath the surface of one another, and get under one another’s skin. In doing so Ben learned that Rey just wants to belong, to be loved and have a place in the galaxy. And Rey, she learned that Ben is just as lonely, but has rejected his birthright because he felt rejected and abandoned by those who should have unconditionally loved and protected him from Snoke (which granted OT Trio tried but they def didn’t have great parenting examples either sooooo).

Now as an adult Ben is bitter, full of resentment and rage because the people he should have been able to count on fucked up royally. And I love that. I resonate with it because of my own experiences as an abuse survivor too. But even more so because it makes Han, Leia and Luke less perfect legends and more human. It makes them real and relatable that they tried to do everything right by their kiddo but ended up fucking him up.  Luke’s betrayal itself was the least shocking part of TLJ tbh. Like does no one remember him going ABSOLUTELY banana balls insane when Vader threatened Leia in ROTJ?

That kind of Skywalker level extra doesn’t just go away with age. 

And yeah Ben needed someone in the fam to be like “so kid, um, lets talk about this.” No one in the OT Trio is good at talking about their feelings. Luke tries to control his by just not dealing with it - the kind of thing you’d expect from a “pray the depression away” type. Leia ignores it and bottles that shit until it comes out as thinly veiled anger. And Han is the most ridiculous of the three with his constant hot and cold routine throughout ESB.

The ST is yes about the failures of the OT trio, the failures of the Jedi and the Sith. But it’s also a story about the force and it’s two chosen vessels. A girl from nowhere and the last scion of the Skywalker line. The fact that their connections in TLJ are coded as sexual awakenings is very indicative of where I think this is all going to go. The Force is basically the Skywalker Patriarch if we’re going on the whole immaculate conception with Shmi. And Ben fell from his path for years now thanks to the other Skywalkers falling from the path and inadvertently pushing him down the rabbit hole with Snoke, manipulating everything like a master of puppets. 

JJ himself even said he was upset that he didn’t get to direct TLJ because he loved Rian’s script so much. 

I have faith we’re going to get a hell of a finish to the 9 film Skywalker saga. With Reylo as endgame or not I think we’re going to get something truly satisfying that links all 9 movies together in a way that will have meta writers writing for years to come about all the parallels and thematic Leitmotifs within the narrative as a whole that encompasses technically 4 generations of Skywalkers (Shmi, Anakin, Luke/Leia, and Ben).

When Ben killed Han in TFA and you get that focused in shot of Adam’s face as the weight of what he just did HITS him and his eyes widen and his lips part, you see the exact moment he shatters his soul realizing that he just seriously fucked up. I leaned over to my best friend that night in the midnight showing and said “do you smell redemption arc?” and I’ve been on that train from day one. 

If he were truly irredeemable he wouldn’t have split his spirit to the bone by killing his father. He wouldn’t have cared to try to convince Rey to be her teacher in the middle of their battle. He wouldn’t care that Rey stares at him like she did that night and call him a monster. A real monster wouldn’t care at being called one. And is so very shook and pained by that moniker with his lower lip quiver and his eyes red rimmed. If he were truly irredeemable he wouldn’t have killed his master just to save the girl, he’d have just usurped power and shrugged her off instead of trying to convince her to stay with him. He wouldn’t have addressed her fear and insecurity of being nothing and no one while shaking his head and saying “but not to me”. If he were truly a monster he would have pulled the damn trigger when his had the bridge of the Raddus in his sights but couldn’t because he felt his mother’s love for him even after everything he’s done.

Has he done terrible things? YES. He definitely has. But he has the equal potential for amazing things as much as he has for the terrible things he’s done. And I for one will be happy to see him begin to even slightly embrace that potential by the end of ep 9. Reylo or no Reylo I’m sure I’m going to be happy with ep 9. There’s no way Adam and so many other brilliant actors would have signed on without at least knowing where this is all gonna go. Adam himself was hesitant to take on the burden of SW but was convinced to do so because of the complexity of Ben’s character. That to me says we’re getting something amazing in ep9. And I can’t wait.

[thefudge]

TLJ thoughts, post-viewing

sooo, i have a lot of feelings about a lot of things. also the subtitles didn’t prepare me. for a lot.

this movie is made up of many quiet, non-verbal moments and rian johnson lets those moments sink in and dwell with you and that’s great

rey exploring the workings of the force, for example. there’s a really cool sequence where she’s trying to find out who her parents are and she lowers herself in the embodiment of the dark side and it’s very trippy and cool. it’s not rushed and it’s v atmospheric. she gets the incentive to do that thanks to kylo. his revelations about luke and his general aura of “troubled darkness” inspire her to dig deeper.

i think what i liked most about reylo was its sense of gratuitous intimacy. what i mean by this is that they seemed to connect without effort, without having to manipulate the plot to make it fit. they seemed be in their own little movie, dealing with things beyond the usual surface level of star wars ‘good vs. evil’. kylo’s philosophy about letting the past go is definitely flawed, but the way the movie frames reylo, they do seem to “let go” of their surroundings and circumstances when they’re together. it’s sort of timeless. 

i will say, i don’t think the romance was that "romantic”, if that makes sense? and i think it’s a good thing. their bond is very real, but it goes beyond “romantic drama” and your usual hero/villain trope. it has shades of that, ofc, and there is palpable sexual and romantic tension, imo. but i sensed something more mature and interesting between them. it could go either way. do i want reylo to have a future in ep 9 and after? yep. is it possible they won’t? also yep. mainly because kylo let rey down. and here’s the kicker: it’s not rey that really rejects him. it’s him that rejects rey. because she tries quite a few times to bring him over to her side, and i think her anger and sadness stem from the fact that, ultimately, kylo didn’t choose her, and ergo the light. he’s still v much conflicted and i think she can sense that. but rey is hungry. she wants all or nothing. she can’t have half of him. so she doesn’t reject him as much as tell him straight up that she won’t stand for being second. for instance, she expects him to fold to her side immediately after taking down snoke. when he doesn’t, she’s quite literally in tears. this hurts her on a deeper level than “oh no, the dark side won and the resistance lost an important ally.” no, this feels like her parents all over. leaving her, deserting her. that’s how i read it, tbh. 

and kylo does some reprehensible shit in the latter quarter of the movie, lol, like i won’t woobify him, since i like my antiheroes to be antiheroes.  but he's not quite villain level?  if u look at snoke, if u take that cool, collected snarky asshole - that’s a villain. he knows who he is, and what he wants. kylo is hopelessly confused and always looking for validation. he tells rey that she’s the one always looking for father figures - but oh, benny ben. it’s actually you. he wants someone to really see him, and that’s why he’s drawn to rey. but just to clarify: he doesn’t have it in him to kill his mother. he has an open, unambiguous chance and he stops. he is willing to destroy her when she stands behind walls and is shielded by the resistance. yet when she’s in the open, no. that was my read on it. 

his fight with luke is...very much one-sided. luke appears as a force-hologram to fight him and kylo just wants to obliterate him for very, very personal reasons. kylo is not the cool, collected new emperor who is going to “kill the past”. he lives so much in the past that he doesn’t even realize luke isn’t even there. 

and btw, kylo doesn’t kill luke, though he wishes he had. early on we get this foreshadowing. when the first force-bond happens between him and rey, he goes “no, you’re not doing this. the effort would kill you.” meaning that, to transport yourself through space via force (without a bond) takes a looooot of energy. luke goes on a suicide mission, basically. he knows using the force like this will kill him. he’s almost having fun toying with kylo at the end. 

when kylo realizes he’s a force-hologram, luke smiles and says “see you around, kid.” not exactly anakin vs obi-wan, if u know what i mean.

and then back on the island, we see luke peacefully give himself over to the force and vanish. it’s v tranquil and quite satisfying and the original star wars theme is used so well, imo. do i think we could’ve had more of luke? sure. but he went out on his own terms. that’s the whole point - kylo didn’t kill him. he killed himself.

again, i want to emphasize that kylo is still very much an antihero, dipping his toe into villainy (and failing - which makes him more angry, which only makes it harder to be the villain he wants to be haha). he’s not a Good Guy. many posts will crop up in the tag about what a poor, lost soul he is. yes and no. rey actually understands him when she closes the falcon door on him. she knows him and appreciates him. he will never really be ben solo and that’s a good thing. trying to be ben solo so hard is what got him in this mess. he isn’t supposed to be a Good Guy. so no, i don’t want him to “turn” (see my thoughts on “turning” below). i want him to truly move beyond the past and reform himself on his own terms, just like luke. because hey fam, luke isn’t a Good Guy in this movie either AND THAT’S GREAT. anyway, i certainly won’t be romanticizing him (kylo). he’s a compelling antihero who definitely has baggage and trauma (luke did try to kill him as a boy, though he has a wildly dramatized version of the event lol) but he is also someone who has to help himself. ultimately, rey’s goal isn’t to “save” him but to push him to save himself. honestly, if kylo had followed her and “turned” and reluctantly joined the resistance, it would’ve been a total let down and a betrayal of his character. him “turning” wouldn’t help him. he’d still have that darkness and that anger inside of him, multiplied. boy needs therapy - aka working through his issues, not ignoring them and joining the Good Side. 

Other things I liked: 

- admiral holdo’s arc - beautiful, well-done and surprising. laura dern kills it. 

- benicio del toro!!!!! no small parts with this man. he is delightful. imagine rick from “rick and morty” but way hotter lol. he was probably my favorite addition, after rose. he’s the middle-ground guy, he’s more han solo than fucking han solo. he doesn’t believe in good guys vs bad guys and he shows both finn and the audience that the two sides err because they believe their path is the only path. he perfectly encapsulates the very real contradictions in modern-day ethics and how our “pure and wholesome” activism often shields us from some terrible truths. he does have a semblance of a heart underneath his cynicism but i love that in the end he doesn’t suddenly discover the power of friendship with finn and rose. he’s a jaded asshole with shades of good, who’s probably seen some rough shit. BUT, he has this super cute moment with rose before things go to shit regarding her necklace and it’s !!!!!! it shows how much he understands human nature. i kinda ship them. aaaanyway. i definitely think he will return, his arc is not done. 

- ROSE TICO SMILING AND BEING HAPPY. ROSE TICO RIDING THAT KANGAROO CREATURE AND ENJOYING LIFE. i treasured those scenes a lot. she’s a great combo of feisty and childlike, tough and innocent. gosh, she reminds me of bonnie bennett so much ;___;

- general hux. yall, it’s true. it’s all true. hux may have won me over. hux in TFA was just a lite over-the-top villain imo. but here??? he’s such a fun, dynamic character, rian gave him a lot of fun, humorous moments. and honest to god, he’s also given some humanity. when kylo takes over, he is genuinely affected and disturbed by his level of aggression. and he’s....idk, much less evil in this one. probably because of the humor. he just seems like a man dead-set on fulfilling his mission, brainwashed to the core. and underneath the brainwashing, he seems to be your average overwhelmed white dude. i don’t think he’ll be redeemed or anything but...it’s weird how at the end of TLJ he is probably the MOST reasonable dude from the first order???

- there’s this great little message about failure. i think here TLJ was inspired by Rogue One. because a lot of the characters in this movie learn to let go and accept defeat. you can’t always save everyone, you can’t always fight back. sometimes, the brave thing is to retreat and treasure the ppl you love. so i def liked that.

- GODDAMN GHOST YODA. i honestly thought i’d hate it because...gimmick, amirite? but that scene with luke was SO emotional and also funny and visceral and just - i was a bit teary-eyed, ME, THE GRINCH. i was suddenly nine again, watching star wars for the first time. ANYWAY. 

- luke skywalker deserves a separate entry. mark hamill did so much with this character in the last few scenes. also some of the stuff he says about the force in this movie is legit beautiful and i love how he criticizes the vanity of the jedi - because this was what was missing from the prequels. anakin fell because the council was tone-deaf. the jedi are often responsible for their own doom and so they must always be vigilant - which is a goddamn thankless job. i love that luke acknowledges this. 

-luke/leia moment. GAAAAH. HE KISSES HER FOREHEAD GOODBYE AND SHE KNOWS HE’S NOT COMING BACK FROM THIS. I DIED.

- in that order of business, leia finally FIIIINALLY gets to show off a bit and use the force in a pro-active manner. it’s also clear to me that episode 9 would’ve been the story of her and “ben” and i think she would have been the catalyst for his eventual development. but sadly, we’ll never see that ;____; 

-there is some gorgeous cinematography and visual direction in this movie. particularly in the third act, on that salt planet? the red trails? shivers. 

-i didn’t hate any of the new creatures like i thought i would??? probably because they were used sparingly and with a sense of humor.

Stuff i kind of didn’t like:

- phasma. phasma, phasma, phasma. WHAT was that??? like tell me that wasn’t anticlimactic as hell. she was, sadly, a pointless character. unless she somehow survived the fire and destruction, which i doubt, i really don’t see the point of casting wonderful gwendolyn christie just to stand there in armor. 

- MAZ KANATA. is barely in this. i call bullshit. 

-sigh, okay so i loved rose to death, but her arc revolved way too much around finn. on the one hand i get it, on the other hand.... i was hyped because ppl were saying she gets this big moment to shine. and granted, imo, she shines every moment she’s on screen. but i think her climactic scene was... *fart noises*. it’s completely centered around finn. she saves him basically, and it’s definitely heartfelt and lovely but also...it’s finn’s moment 100%. because it’s him who has to learn about his own worth. i do think they make a good team and i ship them a little bit, but the one-sided kiss was not satisfying and i’m tired of having to watch my darling woc give their love and devotion freely, only to be  tertiary characters in their own story. like, imo, it should’ve been rose who flew straight into that cannon and tried to take it down for her sister. she should’ve been the one determined to take it down. and it should’ve been finn to save her and tell her they must find meaning in other things. finn definitely cares for her and in the last scene we have of him, he’s tending over rose and waiting for her to wake up BUT. will rose ever be number one for anyone, like the white girls, i wonder? eh, i’m probably just grumpy old aunt. she does get to have an internal world, she’s a believable human being, she matters. the thing is, white girls in these movies can bend their little finger and they’re considered worthy and complex. rose has to jump through hoops to be seen the same way. anyway.

- i liked poe dameron’s arc, which is “hey, maybe i should stop posturing and listen to women more lol” which is “learn when to retreat and stand down” but...honestly, you hire gorgeous oscar isaac who can give you real emotional weight and you just...kinda under-utilize him. yes, he did a lot of stuff, but he...didn’t take time to internalize it. this dude feels like he’s got a lot of demons and conflicting desires and a rich inner life, yet we only skim the surface of that. like, he’s aways in go-mode, we rarely get a quiet moment with him. like pls fix this, episode 9. 

-luke’s reaction to han’s death is pfffffffffffff. maybe we’ll get more in a deleted scene? 

- also....can we stop pussyfooting and legit talk about han as a dad? because they keep hinting he wasn’t a good one, nor a very good husband to leia. but...it’s very unsatisfying to keep hearing about it without good storytelling to back it up. 

- the world-building & the origins of the first order. i had problems with this in TFA and, big surprise, i still have problems with it here. basically, why has the first order taken over the new republic? how did they gain support? were there remnants of the old empire that survived and thrived as the first order? what about the knights of ren? luke mentions kylo took some students with him when he destroyed the jedi temple, so....what about those guys? like, this very fraught and war-torn landscape doesn’t have a solid history. how did A become B? why is every corner of the galaxy oppressed? why are some planets thriving more? are they all arm-dealers??? i find that hard to believe. yeah, we have the expanded universe for that, we have books and comics etc. but i need these movies to give us a sense of their own universe. i’m...still not convinced. 

-lolol, snoke dies like a bitch. and it’s so anticlimactic and duuuumb. dude, a five-year old coulda seen that coming but your ancient super powerful ass couldn’t? laaaame. he’s like “oh, yes, i sense no more conflict in you, kylo ren. just a deep certainty”. YES FOOL, because he’s decided to remove u, because he’s confident he wants rey, and not you, by his side. it was soooo lame. but i guess we had to remove him to make the audience think kylo was turning good for a second there.

-which reminds me... and you probably saw this coming, i hate the idea of “turning”. rey keeps talking about ben turning to the light. and this verb annoys me to no end. it’s made clear that they both already have a lot of light and darkness in each other. it’s about finding balance. where’s my grey jedi??? episode 9 pls????

Extra Reylo stuff i didn’t see mentioned which i adored: 

- during their first force-bond moment when they sense each other, kylo ren runs out of the medical unit and into the corridor like a goddamn luckless teenager, expecting to see rey pop up in a prom dress.  it’s precious. i love awkward!kylo. also rey tries to shoot him bc she thinks he’s actually there and kylo bends down, thinking he was shot. it’s a rly cool moment. and it doesn’t feel malicious like, he doesn’t expect anything less from her. 

- there’s so much charged electricity between them and it’s not all sexual. it’s kinda mystical and i dig it. i’m weirdly reminded of xavier and magneto??? as in two enemies who have such a rich history and whose bond transcends human morality. 

-OKAY. i saw no one talking about this but THAT GODDAMN SNOW WHITE SCENE. so rey decides she’s going to turn kylo to the light because that’s their one hope of defeating the first order etc. luke tries to stop her, but she’s like i’m going after my man. okay. she gets on the falcon, then she puts herself in this casket-like pod and AND. we get this lovely, breath-taking sequence of her arriving at the first order base, slipping gently into the hangar in her casket. and she’s def nervous. AND THEN. she looks up through the glass and there’s steam at first and through the steam we see kylo’s face, looking down at her wistfully. IT’S SO WEIRDLY FAIRY-TALE WTF. and then ofc the guards come in to shackle her. BUT JESUS. the prince looking into the casket to find snow-white WHAT ARE THESE AESTHETICS. it felt like a nod to the infamous scene in TFA where he carries her bridal style. it’s very fairy-tale-esque. 

- i love that in the scene with the multiple reys, when she reaches through the mirror to see her parents, the shadowy figure who appears and touches her hand seems at first to be kylo and then she realizes it’s herself. i also love that she talks to kylo about that experience. GAH. 

- i just rly loved that there was so much humanity in their interactions.

Reylo stuff which sort of bothered me/left me wanting more: 

- like excuse u rian,  during the praetorian guards fight, i needed more moments where kylo looks at rey and is worried for her sake. i needed that fight to be a bit more visceral and about the two of them and their survival. they do fight together and it’s great but then...they’re sort of separated and carry their own small battles (i did love how rey saved him with that lightsaber throw)

- the whole “you come from nothing, you are nothing.” yea yeah, he’s a dummy who doesnt know how to express his feelings, he’s mr. darcy x 1000 of faux pas. but i still think adam driver’s acting went a little much there. the way he delivered that line was a bit off for me. ofc, he follows it with “but not to me”, because he’s basically proposing to her, but i needed a bit more, an extra line from him confirming her importance. or maybe no extra line, but a bit more feeling. did i mention i love wrecked!kylo? the “please” killed me haha. 

Final thoughts:

- enjoyed it more than i expected to, and it does operate with way more nuance than TFA but it stiiiill fell short with some characters. it didn’t have the weight of rogue one for me, but it’s more lighthearted and entertaining, which i appreciate, cuz it reminded me of my childhood. and ultimately, whether we like it or not, disney does operate on nostalgia. all in all, it’s a worthy star wars movie, 8/10. rian deserves an A-. (he also wrote this thing and whoaaa...i wonder how much more ambiguous and dark this movie woulda been if he’d been given full non-disney freedom)

[zenosanalytic]

Star Wars: The Last Jedi: Impermanence

So like I said, Rey’s story was probably my favorite part of the film, and it was my favorite because it played most to what I thought of as the film’s strongest points, which I identify as: dialogue, interaction, acting, its characters and, always very important to me, its Philosophy and Worldbuilding >:]

So Rey and Ren’s stories are pretty deeply intertwined, but I didn’t really get any Reylo vibes from TLJ. I def think that’s something to be worried about given that this is Disney and how that pairing would snap into convention, and the moment when they started fighting side-by-side did confuse and annoy me for a bit before I realized what it was about from Ren’s perspective(just your usually Sith assassination graduation). Part of why I didn’t get that feeling from it was that Ren’s story, while Driver’s performance was excellent, struck me as so limited and passively responding to/reflecting on Rey’s that it was practically ancillary to it. He was less his own character in the movie than a foil; a narrative device for Rey to bounce off of. Her desire to redeem him didn’t strike me that way either because Her motivation always felt to me to be about placing herself in the universe. Like: She didn’t want to redeem Kylo for his sake, or because of her feelings for him, she wanted to do it because that’s what Luke did. Which she directly says: “you ended the last war by redeeming Vader, so that must mean that’s how I will end this one, by redeeming my Vader, Kylo!” This gets into some larger ideas so I’ll back-up a bit for a sec.

Rey came to that island to find Luke, but that was really just a means to an end. Her real motivations were three-fold, two minor ones, getting Luke to go fight and getting Luke to train her, and one core motivation: finding out about herself. And these two minor ones are actually related to the core one:

if he trained her she would be his Apprentice, following his lead and teachings rather than having to figure out her own place and way; her confusion about her feelings and ignorance about herself wouldn’t matter, because he’d be giving her a purpose and clear social place. She wouldn’t have to struggle to figure out where she feels she belongs, who she feels she is and should be, and what she should be doing and why because he would be giving her all those answers.

if he went to fight she’d be the person who found Luke Skywalker, brought back The Legend to set everything Right again, and she’d have done her part without ever having to face the challenge of measuring up. Her anxiety about herself and her power wouldn’t matter because she wouldn’t be at the front of things; her role would be in the background, supporting the Real Heroes and Legends and following their lead.

So Rey’s main hope and fear, the source of both her drive and her anxiety, was always finding out about herself and orienting herself in this, for her, new social world she has dropped into, and in which she feels partly to be a stranger and a phony. That is made explicit when Luke questions her on who she is and why she’s there; iirc, her first two answers(”to bring you back, to train”) are stilted and awkward and he easily dispenses with them while her third, her confusion and fear about herself and her desire for him to help her make sense of it, is honest and heartfelt, and gives Luke real pause(and fear). Obvsl this is, on top of everything else, an analogy for becoming an adult so I’ll just get that out of the way as it’s pretty basic and not really what I find interesting about it. So her desire to redeem Ren was based not in sentiment for Ren but in her desire to fill Luke’s place. It is mainly an expression of her anxiety over feeling disconnected and socially adrift by attempting to solve it through role-modelling and repetition of her defining narratives; by abstracting her life via metaphor to the Legends she holds dear, and out-sourcing the anxiety of decision to the surety of history, though she doesn’t really understand the people involved in those events, and their experiences don’t really map to her circumstances.

So the whole “redemption” thing never struck me as romantic, because her interactions with Ren and desire to Redeem him were pursued for abstract immediate reasons in service to psychological primary ones.  Affection and attraction had nothing to do with it. She does come to share a common feeling with Ren(quite directly in that they, as aware Force-Sensitives, can feel each others’ emotions and thoughts), but this is never affection; never sexual or romantic attraction. Rather it is true Sympathy; a recognition of emotional and contextual similarity. She sees her conflict, confusion, and unmooredness reflected in his own, though distorted by his different particulars.

And not only does she see his confusion and chaos(mirroring her own), but she also feels the stability and control he can exercise within that via his ambition, sense of purpose, and historical nihilism[1]. As someone in conflict, she wants that stability so she seeks to understand it where she finds it(Luke certainly isn’t displaying any). In a similar way and for similar reasons, though with some morbid inversions, Rey needs to understand how he could choose to throw away the family, friends and easy affection -the connections- which she most wants because she’s never had them. Her social universe, made up largely of people who knew him and who he abandoned, is filled with all these potentials for the affirmation and acceptance which she most desires, and which he destructively rejected. She has little idea how to cultivate these connections which he was born with -has never even been able to have them(until Finn[2])- and so she’s anxious about Fucking Up and, in one of these morbid inversions, is partly drawn to Ren as someone who has had them. As, I think, has been clear since TFA(and is powerfully and repeatedly reinforced in TLJ), Rey sees herself as abandoned and thrown away; she conceives of herself as an outsider but, more than that, as one who was rejected as “not good enough” and “not wanted”. Ren threw others away, chose to be an outsider, and she also needs to understand that because it’s inconceivable to her that anyone would make such a choice. That he knows Han loved him, and doesn’t hate Han(even, in fact, still says he loves him), makes this even more incomprehensible to her, which makes her need to understand stronger. And not only in an abstract sense of curiosity; by understanding why he threw away people and how he feels about that, she seeks to understand why she was thrown away, whether she was truly unwanted, and through that seeks the validation of her hopes for what her parents felt for her; seeks a morbid reflection of Ren’s murderous “love” for his father in an abandoning “love” in her parents. That’s why Ren’s “I didn’t hate him” line is so important, and why it hits her so true. That’s why she reaches out to him(beside the control and his place as foil to her own desires). In some ways he reflects her, but in others he is a surrogate for those who rejected her and her reaching out to him is part-and-parcel with her desire to understand them.

Which brings up another interesting part of her narrative, and this is where TLJ’s take on the The Force starts to get involved and developed. Luke defines The Force differently than Kanata did, not as an energy that “moves through and surrounds every Living thing”, but as the Energy between and connecting all things: its Flow, its Tension, and its Balance. Rey’s stated motivation, her greatest desire, is to know what her place is. But her real, unstated motivation is To Belong, because she’s never Belonged with anyone, she was always alone, and she thinks knowing her place will show her who she Belongs with[3]. This is her driving Tension -the source of Tension- in her story; the thing she wants most in the Universe. Which ties it to The Force; Tension is explicitly mentioned as an expression of it. Building on this, there is a place beneath the island associated by Luke with “The Dark Side” -a pool in a cave, one wall of which seems to be ice- which the movie explicitly aligns with this precise Tension: Rey is drawn to it, feeling that she will find answers about her parents(her Belonging) there. There are other metaphysical things about this place I’ll get to later: what’s important right now is this connection: Rey, to Tension, to The Force, to this Place, to the Dark Side. Taking this as an archetype and looking at the other Force users in the film, we can see a possible pattern: Ren’s Tension is the desire to be strong and measure up to, then surpass, then be free of, his heritage; to be without “weakness”, as he sees it: restraint, connection, and sentiment; To “Let the Past Die”, and be Free to pursue his own will/strength as and when he wishes. Giving in to that leads him to the Dark Side. Luke’s Tension was Anxiety over living up to his own Legend and being able to Defeat “The Dark Side”, and indulging in that Tension on one terrible night precipitated Ben’s final alienation. So the film seems to be arguing that this Tension in the Force is what the Jedi-culture(and thus Sith-culture) considers “The Dark Side of the Force”. This doesn’t just advance compelling worldbuilding; it situates Rey’s central conflict and motivation within that Worldbuilding; within her larger world. I find this sort of structural integration with character narratives really satisfying, and it brings an added meaning to conventional movie techniques for displaying emotion by projecting it onto the world(like placing her most intense moments of confusion, danger, and inner-conflict within environments of darkness, storms, cold, and wetness during times, for instance).

Thinking about it, I feel like maybe you could expand this(and thus The Force) to being a central theme of the movie? In each “Good” character’s narrative there is a Tension driving them which they, over the movie, learn to let go of(which, in turn, leads to their naturally fulfilling it). Luke lets go of his sense of failure at continuing the Jedi, finding peace and ensuring the Jedi continue. Poe lets go of his desire to Lead through Action and Heroics, which saves the remaining Resistance, especially their pilots, and in doing so becomes the leader he wants to be. Finn lets go of his myopic desire to get back to Rey and escape the First Order and starts to really fight for the ideas and people important to him, which leads him to defeat the FO personified by Phasma, brings him back to Rey, and ensures both their safety. It is in letting go that people achieve balance and fulfillment in this story. Conversely, Ren gives in to his desires for Power and Escaping the Past by destroying it, and thus ends up being entrapped by them, like the tragic, hubristic lead of an ancient Greek play. That idea of Enlightenment, Freedom, and Fulfillment coming from letting go, and suffering coming from holding on, is Very Buddhist and Very, Very Zen, which finally brings me to my Favorite aspect of this film ^u^ ^u^ ^u^

I’m obvsl not the first to draw a connection of inspiration between The Jedi and Zen(I’m actually pretty sure Lucas even said as much at one point, but I’m too lazy to look it up rn), but the return to a more Original Trilogy, Zen treatment of the Jedi and The Force is something I loved So Much[4]. The main Tension in this narrative is between the characters while the world is just... there in its Suchness, surrounding them, and they’re in it, and part of it, and their reactions to its Impermanence. Life lives and dies and lives again; matter is built, torn down, and built again; all physical things are locked within a Permanent cycle of Impermanence, and The Force is the sinew binding it all together, the Energy flowing permanently through the impermanent. And understanding and accepting that, even unconsciously, brings about release from pain, internal balance, and true fulfillment. Hence Rey’s Tension/Desire, and the Balance she achieves when she lets go of it; admitting her fears about her past and her desires for it without letting them control her. Hence Ren’s failure to achieve balance and freedom by giving in to the Tension of his Ambitions; his past, quiet literally in the projected “ghost” of his master, defeats him. Hence Rey’s Flow with The Force when she realizes the pattern set before her(the Rocks at the end; a clear callback to Luke’s earlier comments, and to Luke’s training with Yoda on Dagoba which the Island sequence is a reference to, and Luke’s line about “moving rocks” a direct quote from his Dagoba training).

And, in typically ironic Zen fashion, by giving up on her Desire to find where she Belongs, by accepting her greatest fears of the truth and meaninglessness of her natal rejection, Rey is inevitably brought precisely to where she Belongs: to the embrace of Finn and her new found family within the Resistance. I know at this point I’m repeating myself, but this is why the complaints about Rey “not training” never really flew[5]; one doesn’t need to “learn” how to “use” the Force, one already can “use The Force” because One is already attuned with it simply by existing. One is “Born Enlightened”, as it were. What one must do is “get out of the way”; not Try to move something with The Force, but allow The Force to Flow Through You and connect you to the universe such that your Will and its Will become one, and the thing you wish to occur occurs(and, conversely, you play the role you are meant to). TFA Got this, but TLJ both Gets it and explicates it explicitly to the audience.

The whole destruction/giving away/loss of iconic objects plays into Impermanence as well. Most obviously there is Yoda’s “the books don’t matter” comment to Luke, which is one of Zen’s most famous aspects; it denies a doctrinal, textual past, and gives primacy to the experience and learning through experience(though obvsl there ARE Zen books and doctrines; so another similarity :p). More broadly is the “suchness” mentioned earlier: Physical existence is As it Is, and also impermanent. TLJ confuses things a bit though because, while Buddhism acknowledges that all physical things are impermanent, it also recognized the impermanence of immaterial things like ideology, family and connection. Zen is particularly “rigorous” on this point through its (mis?)understanding of the doctrine of “voidness”, or Sunyata. Zen interprets the Heart Sutra,

Oh, Sariputra, Form Does not Differ From the Void,

And the Void Does Not Differ From Form. Form is Void and Void is Form; The Same is True For Feelings, Perceptions, Volitions and Consciousness

often taken as the primary text for this doctrine, as an affirmation that physical reality, identity, ideology -all Things- are “empty” projections of Void or “Nothingness”, which is the true reality which Enlightenment is direct awareness of and communion with.

TLJ, and SW in general, fumbles and commits the common Euro error of replacing a Buddhist conception of impermanence, and Zen conception of “Void”, with Platonic ideas preferencing the immaterial as “divine, immortal, and Real” in opposition to the flawed, illusory “mortality” of physical reality. So TLJ, while destroying or giving away important items, consistently ties that to the message that the ideals and concepts/feelings/ephemera those items symbolized or taught -Family, Relationships, Freedom and Justice and Democracy, oneness with The Force, The Resistance, Identity, Agency, Heroism, etc- are what is Truly Important and Lasting as opposed to immaterial possessions. That’s not very Buddhist and, in particular, it’s not very Zen, as Zen not only denies the permanence of both physical and ideal things, but makes a point of encouraging one to appreciate the impermanence of existence, material and immaterial, and to see an ultimate unity, rather than opposition, between material and immaterial, through their impermanence and Voidness. Star Wars includes many visuals that are true to this tradition(Luke’s final scene in TLJ, for instance, is an excellent example, especially as it is an obvious symbol of his life as a whole, and represents his attaining a final, complete community with The Force), but then it undermines it a bit with this far more prominent Idealism which, while |:T, is sadly expected and so I don’t let it bother me.

Though, from a fan perspective, I LOVE the idea of their being doctrinal disagreements about the nature of The Force among Force-sensitive and Force-using communities. It helps to make the world and its possibilities bigger if this fictional world reflects the uncertainty, and inevitable multiplicity of opinion, of real life. And, obvsl, it both creates more space for fans to fiddle around in, and presents an easy justification for doing so(well This, my own Personal Jedi Sect, thinks THIS...) >:] >:]

And, obvsl, Zen Yoda is Best Yoda, and reinforces the Zen treatment of The Force as well. Luke’s sarcasm and leaf-swatting of Rey was also a nice callback to the ole Swamp Hermit, and to Zen, which has in its history some pretty famously crotchety Teachers.

Ok, I think that’s it on this topic. If I come up with anything else about Zen, The Force, the TFA trilogy’s Force-Users, and TLJ, I’ll make another post and mutually link the posts. Thanks for Reading ^v^

[1]”nihilism” isn’t really the word I want here, but I can’t entirely metaphorically grab the term/concept I’m reaching for |:T I mean his whole insincere “let the past die” schtick

[2]Well there’s also BB-8, but I’m not sure if she feels that’s the same. She certainly knows her way around droids, and one gets the sense she likes them and gets on well with them, but at the same time she clearly doesn’t see her relationships to droids as being as fulfilling as those she has with biologicals; her responses to people are just much more intense and invested. Or Maybe this is just part of the Series Bible for SW: that bio characters generally not respond to droids like their equals, even if they are friendly and respectful towards them. The position and condition of Droids is a Whole Other Topic re: Star Wars, Politics, and Philosophy though, so I’ll stop there ftm.

[3]This is one thing about the story that makes Reylo worries understandable, I think, because one of the possible answers the film presents Rey as considering is “with Ren”, and there’s fundamentally a romantic implication in that. They’re both young Force-Users. They’re both, obvsl, very attractive and conventionally “fit”. They’re both conflicted, confused, and searching for answers which is a frequent romantic prelude in film. Moreover he presents himself as having answers to her questions and is obvsl trying to seduce and dominate her in ways that anyone who has ever dealt with passive-aggressive manipulators like him can recognize. Which are -again; sadly- common cinematic harbingers of romance and sex. The movie certainly plays with this, but while watching it I always felt that it was for effect, for characterizing Ren and their interactions, and I thought Ridley’s performance both completely refused to reciprocate this and presented a... unstated awareness of and resistance to Ren’s overtures. Which is why it didn’t ping me as “legit Reylo” and cause concern; she was aware of and quietly guarding against his bullshit even while seeking to understand him and learn from their connection. And this was all subtle and silent, conveyed purely through her physicality and line-delivery.

[4]Though, obvsl, it was rather shallow and aesthetical in the OT, like most early Euro attempts to adapt the concepts.

[5]aside from Luke’s training being all of “shot in the butt by a laser ball while blindfolded” before he blew-up the Death Star, and Rey getting more moments of Force failure than his missing the bullseye once and going for another pass

[callioope]

I was tagged by @yavemiel, thank you! :D

name: Elizabeth

nicknames: Liz. Okay so. With a name like Elizabeth, you obviously get everything. I used to be Beth when I was younger, but I hated it and started going by Elizabeth and Liz’beth in eighth grade. Then summer after freshman year, I started dating a guy who called me Liz. My parents hated this because my mom hated the nickname Lizzie. (Good job naming me Elizabeth, mom.) Anyways, I didn’t really care, and Elizabeth & Liz’beth always seemed so long for everyone to say so I shrugged and let it happen. But of course, my family & friends who met me before eighth grade all still call me Beth, the group of friends I met in eighth & ninth grade call me Elizabeth, and everyone post-ninth grade calls me Liz. And if any one of those people doesn’t use the nickname I’m used to hearing from them, I get confused.

zodiac sign: Capricorn

height: 5′ 3″

nationality: American

favorite fruit: Mango and apple, but also basically any tropical fruit. Except kiwi.

favorite season: 100% autumn. Crisp fall air. Apple-flavored everything. Leaves change color. Halloween. Thanksgiving. Need I say more?

favorite book: Look, this is just a rude question. As if I could choose. But if I have to, it’s going to be His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. And yes that’s a series and look, you’re asking too much of me.

favorite flower: Hydrangeas, I guess? I’m not really into flowers. But we have some of these in the bushes around our neighborhood and I think they’re pretty. 

favorite color: Green, pink, purple. In that order.

favorite animal: red pandas!!!! omg the gif where the lil red panda goes to the food bowl and then the zookeeper sneaks up on him and then the lil panda goes AHHHH and just adorableness all around. every red panda gif. adorable. my weakness.

coffee/tea/hot cocoa: hot chocolate, or peppermint tea

average sleep hours: six or seven, because i’m horrible at going to bed on time. i am a night owl and NOT a morning person. mornings are hard.

cat or dog person: dog. grew up with lots of shetland sheepdogs. even tho yes i know my icon is a cat. that pic is one fuz took when we were at the library of Efes (my favorite place in the world) and the place is run by cats, cats everywhere

favorite fictional character: again with the rudeness of making me choose. fine. Top five: Leslie Knope, Luke Skywalker, Jyn Erso, Ben Wyatt, Amy Santiago

number of blankets you sleep with: one, but have been known to use two on occasion. 

blog created: ugh. ok. six years ago. but generally i would only come out of my cave for game of thrones. i started blogging a little bit more after the force awakens, and then rogue one happened and this is the most active i’ve ever been.

number of followers: 142

random fact: In the first half of the 19th century, the asteroids Ceres, Pallas, Juno, and Vesta were categorized as planets in astronomy books. Eventually astronomers discovered the rest of the asteroid belt and realized these astronomical bodies were a new class of objects. Decades later, after the discovery of Eris in 2006 and the surrounding debate regarding what the term “planet” means, Ceres was again reclassified, this time to “dwarf planet.”

tag 20 users: okay, tagging is really hard. sorry & no pressure if you don’t want to do it or if you’ve been tagged already: @magalis, @latinaspitfire, @theputterer, @lustfulpasiphae, and anyone else who wants to do it. (does anyone ever do these when they’re not tagged? sometimes i see them and i want to but then i feel weird about it? but if you see this and you want to do it go ahead and say i tagged you. i’m always terrified of tagging someone who doesn’t want to be tagged but i def am curious so yea.)