#analyzingsw

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Hunter is not only missing his scarf, but two pieces of armor!

his right shoulder pauldron, and the grey piece of armor that was around his upper left arm

( gifs by dreamswithghosts X X )

and sadly, i think it's a visual representation of his current status.

iirc, his S1 shoulder pauldrons are a bit larger than normal to reflect his rank as a Sergeant, and they kept that for S2.

now, it's only him and Wrecker -- only half of the OG squad (and less than half of the 'new' squad).

a Sergeant of only half a squad, wearing only half his sergeant pauldrons.

(similar to how Echo has no kama and Rex has no captain's pauldron, signifying they're no longer an ARC trooper or Captain in the GAR.)

[robotsandramblings]

didn't catch on at first, but then realized after seeing this post that the reason they get so suddenly protective of Omega is because of Order 66. 🥺

they personally witnessed what happened (and continues to happen) to the Jedi -- first Caleb Dume on Kaller, then the dead Jedi on the stretcher on Kamino, then Gungi. they heard Palpatine's message declaring that "the remaining Jedi will be hunted down and defeated". in the span of a second, they're realizing "oh Omega might have the Force. oh the Jedi have the Force. oh the same Jedi who were slaughtered, even the children, and are still being hunted, even the children?? OH SHIT"

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"One day, the Imperials started packing up and shipped out. So we made our move and escaped. We were the only ones who made it out before the orbital bombardment. Even the clone troopers left us to die. Said they were following orders."

this broke my heart.

and i think it needs to be discussed a lot more.

my first reaction is to say "no!! they would never do that!!! they would never leave behind their own little brothers!!! they are loyal! they have honour! they're good people!!"

but i think that's the point here. we're no longer seeing the clones we typically see from the Clone Wars show. we're no longer seeing our romanticized, rose-tinted-glasses version of them.

i feel like we're actually seeing them more closely to their original Legends version, where there was no inhibitor chip, where the clones really did obey orders without question and carried out Order 66 without a chip to force them into it, simply because it was a direct order from the highest authority.

and that's what we're seeing with these remaining Imperial clones. they are those types of clones. 95% of the "good" ones have been rooted out by now. what's left are the die-hards, the obeyers, the brainwashed, the ignorant pawns. they aren't concerned with saving lives or protecting people, not even their own kin. they're there to follow orders and serve their Empire.

it definitely hurts, but honestly, it's a bit refreshing, and yes it is realistic. i remember reading a post ages ago about an interesting hypocrisy within the fandom -- how we as fans hate seeing clones treated as less than human, how we want them to be treated "more human", BUT we also prefer them to be these good, heroic, noble characters. which is definitely not a human trait. humans are inherently both good and bad, and some are bad, and some are very very bad. so if we want our clones to have the full range of humanity, then some of them have to be bad people.

so really, especially at this point in the timeline, it is entirely realistic that these "bad" clones exist, that they are willingly choosing this path, and they are choosing to let people die, even their own, because of orders, or simply for their own survival.

personally, i'm glad the writers were brave enough to take this step. i honestly hope it doesn't end up as a "they're all still brainwashed" or "their chips are still active" explanations. we need some clones that want to be with the Empire. we need some clones to be villians.

[robotsandramblings]

a LOT of emotions and facial expressions goin' on here 👀

[robotsandramblings]

yes, Omega was on Tantiss for approx. 165 days, or 5.5 months

in case anyone was wondering about the validity of the timespan, here are some screenshots:

this is the last up close, clear shot of her tally marks at the very end of S03 E01.

many people are citing 165 days, which makes very good sense to me, because A) it's quite reasonable to assume E03, the escape, takes place the next day, and also because of B) what this person pointed out.

5.5 months though!! that's a long time!!! (but their reunion will be all that much sweeter 🥲)

[robotsandramblings]

so there's a VERY good chance that Wolffe is one of Rex/Echo's contacts/spies in the Empire. and S02E15 has evidence!!

i present to you, from "The Summit" episode, Barton Coburn. a face we've seen before in The Clone Wars series.

he is named in the credits as "Barton Coburn". he was voiced by Dee Bradley Baker himself, who voiced him in previous TCW episodes. he speaks up in favour of the clones. there is barely any reason to doubt this isn't the same Admiral Coburn from TCW...

yes!! the very same admiral who served with Plo Koon, Commander Wolffe, and the 104th during the Clone Wars.

Tech says he can find virtually nothing on Hemlock, and yet, a contact of Echo's knows about this super secret summit meeting on Eriadu and Hemlock attending... and Coburn himself attended that very same summit meeting...

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Emerie Karr: "They're children. Like I was. Was your plan to discard them too?" Nala Se: "The Empire will keep them in order to control them."

a very interesting exchange between Emerie and Nala Se.

1. how Emerie says "Like I was" really caught my attention. i suppose it's no surprise that, similar to Omega, as a child Emerie was probably poked and prodded and studied like a specimen in Nala Se's lab too. (it also reinforces her empathy in E10.)

2. i'm 99% sure the "discard" remark is in reference to the clone prisoners. however, could there possibly be a double meaning? was Emerie the "rough draft" of Omega, but she didn't turn out quite like Nala Se wanted, so Nala Se 'discarded' Emerie [either to work on an 'improved' version, or after she had completed the 'better' version, aka Omega] ?

3. i find Nala Se's reply chilling, for obvious reasons, but also because it kinda applies to Emerie herself too? idk maybe she was quite happy to transition from the Republic to the Empire. But the Empire didn't recruit her because like they were a big fan of her or something -- she's being kept and controlled just like the children, forced to study the topics the Empire wants studied, to work on Imperial projects, to advance Imperial science and Imperial goals. and the second she's deemed uncontrollable and useless, like the adult clones, she is indeed getting discarded too.

[robotsandramblings]

Hunter's line about "nobody really understood what was happening back then" is super interesting

because Hunter did know - or, at least, he has suspicions, and bad feelings, and warning bells going off in his head

and Hunter did directly try to warn Crosshair about what kind of things would happen. and Hunter was ultimately right about those things.

he could've easily shoved that in Crosshair's face. i honestly thought a part of their conversation, regardless of when it happened, would definitely be Hunter having an "i told you so" moment.

and when the opportunity came, he ... didn't.

not yet anyways... although i highly doubt he will. i don't think Hunter cares about shoving that in Crosshair's face. i think Hunter cares much more about Crosshair actually just being there with the team again, and even admitting to his own mistakes. (i also think Hunter already knows the "i told you so" is unnecessary, because he knows that Crosshair already knows this.)

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i've rewatched this paticular moment [x] a million times because

it's a lovely little detail -- on the surface, i think she's just catching her breath a bit from all the crying

but i think she's also momentarily hesitating before running to Hunter. they've never hugged before, and i think she's really not 100% sure if he'll reciprocate.

until she's overwhelmed with emotions again and obviously decides "screw it, i want a hug from this man, i am going to go get one!!!" 🤗

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this is not really a huge discover or anything, and probably most of y'all already 'knew' on some level, but i've always wondered about Crosshair's sniper rifle in his backpack. i've always assumed it was in two (2) pieces or something, but we've only really seen it in its full elongated form (iirc?)

(sorry my screenshots are terrible augghh but) anyways i was glad to finally see it like this, to see what happens when he needs to draw his gun immediately. confirms [visually] for me that he needs that extra few seconds to pull out the second piece to make a full sniper rife. just found it interesting :)

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me reading the "new" "canon" heights for the Bad Batch on starwars.com:

nooo thank you, don't like those, i'll stick to the wookiepedia + my headcanons version lol ✌️

i'll save my overall analysis & ramblings for under the readmore

(here's the og thread that brought it to my attention. make sure to read op's corrected version!)

(p.s. the height chart was done by me on heightcomparison.com, it's not an official star wars image -- but the data matches starwars.com)

first off, i will acknowledge that visually, in the show, their heights are always a tricky thing. i've been referencing a bajillion screenshots since i came upon this thread. their comparative heights change in like every screenshot, due to camera angles and/or where they're standing relative to each other. we never get to see all five (5) of them standing shoulder-to-shoulder, side-by-side, in a single straight line, with an eye-level camera shot*.

i'll also acknowledge that i've always just gone off of what wookiepedia says, because it's the closest to an 'official' source that we've ever had -- but it's still not the official source. Here's the wookiepedia version, btw:

and you know what? depending on what screenshot you look at, these can both seem right. sometimes, Tech looks as tall as Crosshair; other times, Tech looks close to Echo's height. (Tech is also rarely at full height -- he's usually got his head and shoulders bent down to read his datapad. i think he slouches too.) i also find Hunter's height varies a lot too, depending on the shot.

Personally, i will be following the wookiepedia version. i think the starwars.com numbers are way, way off. (Warning: here's where the ranting part begins lol)

Wrecker has never, ever been a full head taller than Tech, Echo, or Hunter. what the actual fuck lmaooo

and 7 inches taller than Crosshair?? i don't think so lads

they're tryin' to tell me Echo is shorter than reg height??? bullshit lol. and Tech too??? also bullshit lmao

i refuse to believe Tech is only 2cm taller than Hunter; Tech should be, at minimum, 2 inches taller than Hunter.

i feel Omega's height can vary in the show, like Tech or Hunter as i mentioned. sometimes she seems very small, sometimes she seems taller than i remember.

that all said, i think the height for Omega is correct... for Season 1**. but S2? and now in S3? she's definitely grown a bit.

so i guess if i had to come up with my own numbers, i'd go primarily with the wookiepedia data, with a few tweaks...

Omega**: at least 140cm / 4' 7''

Hunter: 180-181cm / 5' 11''

Echo: 185cm / 6' 1''

Tech: 190-193cm / 6' 3'' - 6' 4''

Crosshair: 193cm / 6' 4''

Wrecker: 198-200cm max / 6' 6''

(i will hold onto Short King Hunter with a death grip until i die. even though i'll admit he looks reg/Echo height in a lot of shots. but i just really love the idea that's he's juuuust under 6' !)

**My headcanon is that in S1, Omega was approximately 10 years old. (which would match with starwars.com data, since average height for a 10-yr-old = 127-137cm.) i'm assuming we're at least 2 years later by S3, so she should be 12, which should put her height at 140-162cm.

i think in the show, they're keeping her closer to 140cm, but i'm equally onboard with her being on the taller side, closer to 162cm. i like the idea that she will eventually grow to reg clone height of 6 feet, thus she'd be on the taller end of "average" child height.

*there is one singular screenshot i came across which might be the closest. however, it's only properly showing the OG four -- Echo is in the shot, but disproportionately in front of them. it's also from their pilot in Clone Wars S7, which arguably was just a beginning stage for them, and changes were made before their own show aired, including the animation style/models.

it would explain where many of us got our idea of Tech = Crosshair same height. but Hunter is also nearly as tall as them?? certainly not 180cm lmao. so idk. take that as you will.

[robotsandramblings]

i do appreciate Hunter's committment to his aesthetic,, ie. making his armor pieces (bicep & leg) match his facial tattoo -- left side armor is dark to match his tattooed side, right side is lighter to match his untattooed side.

(also credit to the animators for such a neat little detail!)

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Rex: And neither can you [just walk away], not with the Empire being after the kid. Hunter: We'll protect her. Rex: If you want to keep her safe, you need to find out why she's so important to them.

i really like this exchange, and their facial expressions (from E07). Rex knows Hunter just wants to run away and hide, and he basically calls him out on it, and Hunter ends up looking a bit guilty. Rex looks somewhat defiant, in a challenging mode, pushing Hunter (but not too much) to do more.

and i really like this because it shows us how much Rex cares about Omega - enough to speak up and challenge her caregivers and Hunter directly and basically say "sorry but your protection alone isn't going to be enough. don't you dare just run off and hide, you need to do something."

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alllrighty i'm going to go on a bit of a rant here. Episode 12's in-show reaction & aftermath of Omega being taken to Tantiss again was severely, sorely lacking. it was reduced to three sentences, with barely any emotion or discussion behind it, and it pissed me off honestly.

this got long, so i'm going to try and TLDR it: -- Bare minimum, with the "lack of emotion / emotional reactions" route, there should have been more on-screen discussion and explanation to support this. i could accept Hunter being at peace with this situation if there was [previous or newly provided] content to support this. -- BUT, it's contradictory to what we've seen in-show thus far. based on what we've seen from Hunter in S3, his lack of any emotional reaction makes NO sense to me. i'm not saying it's entirely OOC, i'm not complaining because it doesn't fit with my headcanons or wishes, i'm saying it literally doesn't fit with the narrative so far. Hunter spent several months in a stressful, desperate search for Omega, we saw on-screen how it affected him, and in the end they still never actually found Tantiss. now he's back to square one and he's just... ok with this??? it's not affecting him emotionally at all????? after we've seen plenty of him being emotional on-screen??? i'm not buying it. i truly don't think it makes sense.

- - - - - -

(now here are my original, full, lengthy analyses)

first off, i'd like to address a few posts i saw where people were accusing fans like me - fans who expected Hunter to be angry - of wanting/expecting a "toxic" or "super aggressive" version of Hunter, and/or wanting/expecting a continued "rivalry" or animosity between Hunter & Crosshair. i think i can speak for most of us when i say that is absolutely not true. some of us thought it possible that Hunter try to beat the shit out of Crosshair, or were afraid that Hunter might blame Crosshair and their relationship go backwards abit. but literally nobody here wanted either of those. so, first of all, jot that down.

what most of us were - reasonably - expecting, at bare minimum, was an emotional Hunter. angry, outraged, upset, terrified, horrified, stressed - at least one of these, or all of these. and yes, he should have been emotional in some way. if only for a brief moment.

Hunter's complete lack of reaction in E12 doesn't make any sense to me. i'm not talking about headcanons or theories or what i personally wanted to see play out, i'm talking about what we've literally seen from Hunter in-show thus far. - in terms of Tantiss: he and Wrecker spent several months stressed out, worn out, and desperate, looking for crumbs of information. and even with (assumedly) Rex and Echo helping them, they still never got anywhere close. - in terms of Omega: we all have our own opinions and headcanons about Hunter & Omega, but ultimately, what is very clearly shown on-screen is that Hunter cares deeply for Omega, and her overall safety and wellbeing has become his top priority.

And now, Omega is back on Tantiss, and Hunter is back at square one, doing this stressful, desperate, impossible search yet again. ...only worse this time, because Hunter is probably assuming they'll be increasing security on her this time around. (he might have secret hope she'll find another ally or stroke of luck, but he's not stupid enough to rely on it.)

and the writers are trying to tell me that… he's ok with all of this?? he's COMPLETELY ok with this??? this situation isn't affecting him emotionally AT ALL???? really?????

But hold on. ok. i can play devil's advocate. i can see the other explanations. "Hunter has made peace with Omega's decision." "Hunter is fully aware that Pabu would be torn apart if she didn't surrender." "Hunter trusts Omega" "Hunter trusts Crosshair" etc etc. i'm not saying those are invalid explanations - in fact, they are quite reasonable.

so why didn't the writers take a few minutes to write that into the episode?? IT'S NOT LIKE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TIME. the episode was literally only 20 minutes long.

"well the writers can't hold your hand everytime and explain every little thing" - agreed! nor should they! but if they're going to change gears like that, and have a character act so differently than expected, then they should be supporting or explaining that change in behaviour. (again, i'm not saying it's 100% OOC for Hunter, but is does contradict his previous on-screen behaviour.)

because really, you have to admit, it was WIDELY expected amongst TBB viewers - even outside tumblr - that Hunter would have a strong emotional reaction. it's not like it was a fan theory that gained popularity. we've all been watching the same show, painting a relatively similar picture of Hunter's character, and thus coming to similar expectations. and while the writers are never beholden to our expectations, if they want to subvert them without explanation, thennn it's going to look like lazy or bad writing.

Finally, i feel it worth pointing out that this is not the first time TBB writers have glossed over a highly emotional issue or conflict and refrained from having a lengthier, more emotional in-show discussion about it. which is why i finally snapped and had to have this rant. if you made it this far, thank you for reading! <3

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interesting little thing i noticed:

Hunter & Wrecker don't have their knives with them going into Season 3.

and even more interesting? it's not because the Imperials took them away. it appears when they arrived on Ord Mantell, they left their knives behind somewhere - probably in Cid's parlour. (they could have left them on the Marauder, but that's so far away, why do that??)

and why do it at all?? it's such a weird and unusual thing for them to do. even on Pabu, after being there a few days/weeks, they still have all their weapons on them. so why'd they remove their knives at Cid's of all places??

i dunno the "in-story" reason, but from a writing perspective, my best guess: it's a plot device to force them / give them a good reason to return to Ord Mantell / Cid's and have a confrontation with her. guess we'll find out!!

(see below for photo proof of when we last see them and when they go missing, along with more in-depth discussion and theorizing.)

Exhibit A: Wrecker still has his knife right before Tech's fall. he could have lost it when the railcar crashed (we don't have a view of Wrecker's lower body until they're at Cid's and it's gone by then).

But, Hunter definitely still has his knife after the railcar crash.

Exhibit B: Wrecker's knife is missing as he sits at Cid's bar. Hunter no longer has his knife whilst waiting beside Omega's bed, and it's still missing when he confronts Hemlock.

So, they removed them when they arrived on Ord Mantell. where exactly they left them is a mystery. all in all, i just thought it's... interesting? kinda weird?? esp when they've never done it before?? and these days they trust Cid even less than before?? so i really do wonder what the explanation for this is going to be.

as to the "Why [don't they have their knives in S3]" and "Why write the story like that", i have a couple theories.

As i said above, most likely it's a plot device that forces them to return to Cid's, to retrieve their knives but also have a confrontation with Cid about what she did to them. (which could lead to her 'act of redemption' where she helps them out in some way, if that's the route they're taking her on. or straight up her death.)

(i do have my own doubts about my own theory lmao. like do they "need" the knives as an excuse to go after Cid?? not at all. but maybe they're wary of going to Ord Mantell specifically, because there's probably a bigger Imperial presence there now, but the knives "give them reason" to. idk.)

Another possible idea, though a long stretch, is that it will end up linking them to someone?? as in, Cid either displays or tries to sell the knives, and someone recognizes them - it would have to be someone like, i dunno, C O D Y !!! - and buys them and that's how said person discovers CF99 is alive. or maybe the buyer is a significant character and CF99 tracking down their knives connects them to this character in an important way?? lol yeah it sounds convoluted ngl

It's also possible the writers are purposefully "getting rid" of the knives because they don't want Hunter and Wrecker using them. (by that i mean, they don't want to keep putting H & W in situations where they can and should be using them against other people, but they're not, because "tHiS iS a KiD's ShOw" lmao.) (look back at Season 2, they hardly - if ever?? - used them, except against a droid here or there.)

(i hope i'm wrong, not just because i do want them to stab people lmao, but because it's entirely hypocritical. fucking Pong Krell BROKE A CLONE'S BACK OVER HIS KNEE LIKE A STICK. what the fuck is a no-blood-splatter stabbing motion compared to THAT!?!?!)

anyways, those are just my thoughts and ideas. i'd love to hear yours!

[robotsandramblings]

"then they are traitors, like the Jedi."

if you rewatch this scene, this is Crosshair's face at the exact moment he says "traitors".

your mouth is moving and saying words, but your face and your eyes are saying something oh so different