#and his marriage as well! there's so much we know about Henry VII & Elizabeth of York specifically because of the survival of

[wonder-worker]

every day I wish that Edward IV's Chamber records actually survived :/

[richmond-rex]

Hi! This is probably going to sound very rambly but I'm really confused and my thoughts are all over the place

The Ricardian xenophobia and anti-Welsh prejudice against Henry VII's ascension is so sickening to see, but it's also ... extremely baffling? In my opinion, there's no other reason it could have originated other than Ricardian double standards.

Because..the Yorkists *also* had Welsh heritage. Edward IV emphasized his Welsh lineage as much Henry VII did and much earlier (highlighting his descent from Llewellyn, utilizing the prophecies of Cadwaladr and the struggle between the Red and White Dragon, etc). The first Welshman to be ennobled since Owain Glyndwr’s fight for freedom (William Herbert) was during his reign, and the fact that very few Welshmen bothered to obtain letters of denizenship during that time (literally *one* person from 1467—1483, and while one is obviously still too many, it's a significant drop from his predecessors and should absolutely be noted in a positive way) is a clear indication that he did not make much use of the Penal Code. Which is a good thing, obviously! Yet for some reason, this is conveniently ignored, even though we know for a fact that David Powel believed that Henry VIII’s Welsh heritage was from his mother Elizabeth of York rather than his father.

The Yorkists *also* had Irish heritage through Elizabeth de Burgh, Countess of Ulster & wife of Lionel of Antwerp, which is also conveniently ignored for ... reasons.

And the comparison between Elizabeth of York’s “English Plantagenet blood” versus Henry VII’s “Tudor blood” which I have seen from some Ricardians is so bizarre to me. Apart from her Welsh and Irish connections through her father as discussed above, Elizabeth of York’s grandmother was from Luxemburg. Her grandfather began his career as a simple English knight. The Woodvilles, as usual, are simultaneously vilified and entirely disregarded when talking about the supposed "end of the Plantagenets.

So like...I'm a little confused WHY people assume that Henry VII's ascension heralded this massive change in terms of nationality or bloodline? Like you mentioned, he was also directly descended from Edward III. His grandmother was the Queen of England, his uncle was the King of England and his mother was one of the wealthiest English heiresses of her time. And Owen Tudor was given letters of English denizenship after his marriage to Catherine of Valois, which would have passed to his sons and grandson.

Of course, when talking about the Plantagenets/Yorkists, I mainly focused on Edward IV and his children, which probably why it's barely taken into account. When people fantasize about the so-called “purity” of the Plantagenets and Yorkists, they’re mostly (99.9% of the time, tbh) talking about Richard III, the emblem of "Englishness" (🤮) in the Victorian era and other eras (although he's certainly not the only one - Henry V, Henry IV to an extent, Edward III, Richard Lionheart and Henry II are all viewed in a very similar way), and mindlessly swallowing Richard’s own propaganda again Henry VII.

(While this isn't completely related, I wouldn't feel comfortable sending this ask without it so I hope it's okay and it doesn't get too long. To be honest: the Tudors are ALSO seen as symbols of English nationalism by an overwhelming majority. They are probably the most famous and well-known English dynasty; a vast number of English history books literally start with the year 1485; the red-and-white Tudor rose is one of the most memorable symbols of the English monarchy; and a vast number of people view that era as the "golden age" of England; Henry VIII and Elizabeth I Tudor are probably the most well known English monarchs of all time. So I certainly don't feel comfortable believing that there's a one-sided negative view against them because that's objectively not true; they're seen in a very positive manner by the vast majority of people. Which is why the contrary claims are so confusing to me - they're so vehement, but they also make no sense whatsoever, and they're completely opposite from the positive and glorified view that - overwhelmingly imo, at least internationally - opposes them)

Sorry if any of this isn't framed properly, English isn't my first language. I can send an ask to clarify anything it it's too confusing to understand 😅

Hi! Sorry for taking so long to reply! I must admit that I lost you there in the end (sorry) but I think I got the gist of your ask. There are a couple of views regarding the 'Welshness' of the Tudors. Some people disregard it entirely because of the things you said by the end of your ask: Henry VIII's break with Rome and Elizabeth I's triumph against the Spanish invasion/armada have been regarded as hallmarks of the making of British (and by British, read: English) culture, as much as Henry V's fight against the French, for example. Of course, Henry VIII and Elizabeth I were not (culturally at least) Welsh, so I would find it equally weird to claim that 'Welsh' was the defining Tudor trait.

As Dr Adam Chapman highlighted in this podcast episode, there was no such thing as 'Wales' as a well-defined country. Welsh identity was cultural, political and based on language. What made Henry VII Welsh was not some x-times removed ancestor, but the fact that he spent his formative years 'in the most Welsh place imaginable' (William Herbert's household), that he most likely spoke Welsh, famously enjoyed Welsh culture (Welsh mead, Welsh music, openly promoted the cults and celebrations of Welsh saints such as Saint David & Saint Armel), promoted Welsh servants, and the fact that he was embraced as Welsh by the Welsh themselves.

But mostly, I think many people do not know that the Tudors were originally Welsh at all! Mostly, people who bemoan that aspect — even if, technically, only one Tudor monarch was Welsh — are the ones who like to romanticise Richard as the last true bastion of Englishness such as Philippa Gregory, Rosemary Jarman, John Ahsdown-Hill, Sandra Worth etc. It is ironic, as you said, because the Yorkists also had Welsh heritage, and when push comes to shove you'll find plenty of ricardians saying Richard was 'more Welsh' than Henry VII because of some ancestor x-times removed, even though Henry had a Welsh grandparent, was born in Wales, was raised in Wales, and grew up in a Welsh-speaking household where Welsh cultural traditions were held. Apparently, being Welsh is terrible unless it's time to say Henry VII was fake Welsh or was less Welsh than the Yorkists.

(never mind that Henry VII was also descended from Llewellyn the Great)

(also stupid because Henry VII never claim to be descended from King Arthur)

It doesn't matter if they don't consider Henry VII to have been very Welsh (or Welsh at all) because suddenly being Welsh is too cool for such an uncool guy like Henry Tudor. The Welsh people of his time viewed him as Welsh. He had all the right conditions to compete for the prophetic mab darogan title as explained here, and that's something considering a part of the Welsh people had been willing to accept even the Yorkists for the title at the time they were against the Lancastrian crown. Edward IV explored that advantage on some occasions, especially when it came to legitimising his rule via prophetic discourse.

However, as stated by Gruffydd Aled Williams, if Edward IV 'did not excite overmuch enthusiasm among the Welsh bards' (in the number of poems produced), it seems like Richard did not even come close to that. It's not that we find very few poems praising Edward's brother (I wonder if there are actually any), it's that the Welsh poets were especially harsh on Richard — he was compared to King Herod (who ordered the killing of the first-born sons), and called unchristian names such as 'saracen'. He was also called ableist names such as 'little Richard', 'deformed Richard', 'little raider', 'small Richard', 'feeble-bodied', 'little ape' and so on. From 1483 onwards, the bards who once had their loyalties divided between Jasper Tudor and Edward IV/William Herbert, unanimously united in Henry Tudor's favour.

Again, cultural identity mattered a lot, which seems to be conveniently forgotten when they decide that it's actually cool to be Welsh. Most of the time they don't seem to see it as good quality, though. The aspect of cultural identity matters when they like to explore the idea that the Tudors were not culturally English, so they didn't know and respect English traditions. It's not uncommon to see the claim that Chilvary died with Richard at Bosworth — Sandra Worth's “at Bosworth Field died the Age of Chivalry” — as if Henry VII didn't extensively engage with chilvaric performance (x, x) and discourse (x).

In my opinion, the real problem with this kind of discourse and re-imagination of the past is, of course, the very real anti-immigrant and English nationalist sentiment that has gained so much currency in Brexit-era England. Henry VII & his family are dead, they can't be offended by any of that — the immigrants who are associated with diseases according to that kind of rhetoric, for example, are not.

[itsssdenise]

Elizabeth of York and Henry VII

One of my favorite historical ships of all time… I`d been watching The Spanish Princess and The White Princess (spending time when covid positive) and I decided to check the couple`s synastry. I`ve found certain indicators that seemed to make the couple steadfast and in love for years and I`d like to share them with the astro community!

Sun conjunct Venus

This has always been one of my favorite aspects in a love match. Henry`s Pisces Venus is in conjunction with Elizabeth`s Sun. There is a strong sense of admiration and attraction. The Sun person admires the mannerisms and appearance of the Venus person. They may like the way they speak, flirt and dress. On the other hand, the Venus person is attracted to the Sun person`s looks, charisma and how they assert themselves to outside. They both see their ideal partner in one another while having utmost fun together and praising each other in the best way possible.

Moon conjunct Saturn

This is both good and a hard aspect. If the circumstances are beneficial, it gives the union a long term commitment. Most of the time one party is older than the other or needs to be guided. They are faithful and honest and feel secure in each others` presence. Henry is the moon person here so I assume he felt himself stronger than ever with the love that Elizabeth gave him. He must`ve consulted to her whenever he had a problem and needed emotional support. He must’ve seen her as someone with wits and wisdom. We know from the historical records that he never had a mistress EVER and was so devoted to his wife Elizabeth. Henry had difficulty recovering from her death. He didn’t come out of his chamber and only talked to his mother during his grief which took him quite sometime.

Moon and Venus in partner`s 10th

Henry`s moon and venus are in Elizabeth`s 10th house. This is not a common romance based overlay in modern sense, however in their circumstances the marriage was arranged for the sole purpose of uniting the Lancasters and Yorks (Wars of the Roses). They strengthened England`s political an financial standing together. Their union and powerful marriage gave birth to most of the English Monarchs such as Henry VIII, Mary Tudor Queen of France, Margaret Tudor of Scots as well as their grandchildren Elizabeth I, and Mary Tudor (Bloody Mary).

Moon conjunct Mercury

Mercury is THE MOST important planet in long term relationships in my opinion. It is because you need to get on well with the other person to make the relationship work. Love isn’t always enough. You need to have a good level of communication hence comes the mercury placements and the roles they play. They also have a harsh mercury-mars aspect so that means they may have had communication problems regarding their temper . It`s of course expected as we’re all human beings and time to time have disagreements since we`re not perfect for anyone nor we have to. Anyway lol. Coming back to this aspect, Henry`s Pisces moon conjuncts Elizabeth`s mercury. They love to talk. Communicating without a barrier. Understanding each other. Being vulnerable but safe to know that the other person acknowledges what they feel. Emotional fulfillment and support. Partners and best friends. Trust and commitment.

Henry`s 8th house Jupiter and Mars are in Elizabeth`s 1st House

Fertility, vitality, abundance and drive to go forward no matter what. They had 7 children and brought each other joy and happiness. They must`ve been each other`s best source of support and motivation to their betterment.

Elizabeth`s Capricorn moon is in Henry`s 2nd House

Gift-giving and in fact over-giving. Caring about their partner`s financial security. Abundance. Harmony.

There are many other things to talk about but i wanted to make it short <3 oh how much I’d like to travel back in time and meet them in person lol

[beardofkamenev]

Henry VII the Fuckboy? According to George Buck...

Reading this super interesting article on Henry VII’s posthumous reputation by Sydney Anglo (highly recommend!) and I just got to the part where it talks about George Buck’s 1609 Life of Richard III:

Huh, that’s actually interesting. I’ve never read Buck’s Richard III, but I was under the impression that he was a Ricardian revisionist — the first ever, in fact. I assumed he wouldn’t have much good to say about Henry VII, if only because of his godson’s creative “interpretations” of his work (which Alison Weir infamously used as her source for claiming that Elizabeth of York was in love with her uncle, Richard III). So this is surprising.

STEALING THE AFFECTIONS OF LADIES BECAUSE HE WAS SO GOOD AND CUNNING AN AMORET.

Right... so Henry was known for being well-spoken and courteous to guests, which makes sense, given that his upbringing was largely that of a courtier. I can also believe that growing up in the sophisticated but intrigue-filled Breton court, he probably did develop “fine, insinuating, and courtly arts” (the Burgundian chronicler, Jean Molinet, who met Henry both as a young teenager in Brittany and as a grown man, described him as “very pleasant, an elegant character, and a fine ornament in the court of France”). What I have a hard time believing is that Henry used these skills to casually chat up random ladies, sliding into their dm’s like he was on medieval Tinder. Like, which ladies did he supposedly have affairs with? And just how many ladies were there that we can conclude that he was especially good at it? Even if you believe Roland de Velville was Henry’s secret son (which I don’t), his mother was but one lady. WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE GEORGE.

Personally, I don’t find it unthinkable that Henry may have had a few affairs during his exile; he only married at 28, after all. But 15th century conceptions of masculinity were very different to ours, or even Buck’s in the 17th century: it was women who were thought to be oversexed, whereas men were seen as having more control over their sexual conduct. To be chaste, therefore, was to be Very Manly. Not to mention, Henry had a reputation for marital fidelity and of “true and faithful love”, so the idea of him as a serial ladies’ man just doesn’t fit with what we know of his character. It’s entirely possible that he might have done a 180 upon his marriage, but here’s what Buck has to say about that:

I want “Yorkizing, Lancastrizing, or Somersetizing, and in all Satanizing” on my tombstone.

Anyway, there’s no good evidence that Henry mistreated Elizabeth of York (that’s a whole ‘nother post), or that he was “perfidious” (he was largely true to his word, and a loyal master and ally). Whether he was particularly “oppressive” is more nuanced in the context of an England caught between the feudal age and early Renaissance developments in government bureaucracy. I just find it odd that Buck thinks that a man who was apparently as good with ze ladies as his Henry didn’t even bother to make the slightest bit of effort with his hot wife. Perhaps Buck’s Henry should have taken some fuckboy lessons from granddaddy Owen:

Goodnight!

[minervacasterly]

Queen Mary (I) Tudor -The Woman behind the Legend of 'Bloody Mary'

"As Mary continued to face Protestant treason she became even more ruthless, with the infamous burnings intended to eliminate what she perceived as a stubborn and destabilising minority. In our context we see Mary's actions as those of a fanatic. In her context she was eliminating fanatics, and of the most dangerous kind, incorrigible rebels against God and queen. But Mary also had to work positively, to build a future, and this unravelled in the face of her infertility and declining health. She failed in her ultimate duty to produce a child and this meant, once again, that the wider family was key to the future. Mary's preferred choice as her heir, was Margaret Douglas, could not compete with the claims of Henry VIII's second daughter and, as Elizabeth took note, it was the knowledge that she would succeed her sister that fueled the disorder and rebellion against Mary. With the loss of Calais in the last year of Mary's life it would be easy for her enemies to paint the young, Protestant Elizabeth's accession as a brilliant new dawn. It is as such that it is still projected. Mary remains associated with her late seventeenth-century sobriquet 'Bloody Mary', and an infamous recent advertisement for the London Dungeon depicted her face transforming into a demon-zombie. Elizabeth, by contrast, has been played in films by a series of beautiful actresses: Elizabeth is ever Cate Blanchett, fairy queen, to Mary's bitter, grey-faced Kathy Burke. Yet these sisters were neither simple heroines nor villains. Both were rulers of their time and we can only understand Elizabeth if we see, as she did, what the Tudor sisters had in common and how she could learn from Mary's example. Most significant for Elizabeth was the fact that Mary's Protestant enemies had sought to redefine the nature of a 'true' king. They argued that religion was more important than blood, or victory in battles -a true king was Protestant- and that all women were by nature unsuited to rule over men. Elizabeth's response was to offer her ordinary subjects a theatrical representation of herself as a 'true' ruler: the seeds of which had been sown by Mary herself in her speech during the Wyatt revolt, in which she is a mother who loves her subjects as if they were her children. Here was a female authority figure accepted as part of the divine order." ~Leanda de Lisle, TUDOR

"The blackening of Mary's name began in Elizabeth's reign and gathered force at the end of the 17th century, when James II compounded the view that Catholic monarchs were a disaster for England. But it was really the enduring popularity of John Foxe which shaped the view of her that has persisted for 450 years. Attempts to soften her image have been made, but their tendency to depict her as a sad little woman who would have been better off as the Tudor equivalent of a housewife is almost as distasteful as the legend of Bloody Mary. To dismiss her life as nothing more than a personal tragedy is both patronizing and mistaken. One of the main themes of Mary's existence is the triumph of determination over adversity. She lived in a violent, intolerant age, surrounded by the intrigues of a time when men and women gambled their lives for advancement at court. Deceit, like ambition, was endemic among the power-seekers of mid-Tudor England who passed, in procession, through her life. Pride, stubbornness and an instinct for survival saw her through tribulations that would have destroyed a lesser woman. Her bravery put her on the throne and kept her there, so that when she died she was able to bequeath to Elizabeth a precious legacy that is often overlooked: she had demonstrated that a woman could rule in her own right. The vilification of Mary has obscured the many areas of continuity between her rule and those of the other Tudors. Today, despite the fact that much more is known about her reign, she is still the most maligned and misunderstood of English monarchs. For Mary Tudor, the first queen of England, truth has not been the daughter of time." ~Linda Porter, THE MYTH OF BLOODY MARY

"Foxe's account would shape the popular narrative of Mary's reign for the next four hundred and fifty years. Generations of schoolchildren would grow up knowing the first Queen of England only as "Bloody Mary", a Catholic tyrant who sent nearly three hundred Protestants to their deaths, a point made satirically in W. C. Sellar and R. J. Yeatman's 1930s parody 1066 and All That. Mary's presence in a recent survey of the most evil men and women in history is testament to Foxe's enduring legacy. But there is, of course, a different Mary: a woman marked by suffering, devout in her faith and exceptional in her courage. From a childhood in which she was adored and feted and then violently rejected, a fighter was born. Her resolve almost cost her her life as her father, and then her brother, sought to subjugate her to their wills. Yet Mary maintained her faith and self-belief. Despite repeated attempts to deprive her of her life and right to the throne, the warrior princess turned victor and became the warrior princess turned victor and became the warrior queen. The boldness and scale of her achievements are often overlooked. The campaign that Mary led in the summer of 1553 would prove to be the only successful revolt against central government in sixteenth-century England. She, like her grandfather Henry VII and grandmother Isabella of Castile, had to flight for her throne. In the moment of crisis she proved decisive, courageous, and "Herculean" -and won the support of the English people as the legitimate Tudor heir. Mary was a conscientious, hardworking queen who was determined to be closely involved in government business and policy making. She would rise "at daybrea when, after saying her prayers and hearing mass in private," she would "transact business incessantly until after midnight." As rebels thereatend teh capital in January 1554 and she was urged to flee, Mary stood firm and successfully rallied Londoners to her defense. She was also a woman who lived by her conscience and was prepared to die for her faith. And she expected the same of others. Her religious defiance was matched by a personal infatuation with Phililp, her Spanish husband. Her love for him and dependence on her "true father", the Emperor Charles V, was unwavering. Her determination to honor her husband's will led England into an unpopular war with France and the loss of Calais. There was no fruit of the union, and so at her premature death there was no Catholic heir. Her own phantom pregnancies, together with epidemics and harvest failures across the country, left her undermined and unpopular. Her life, always one of tragic contrast, ended in personal tragedy as Philip abandoned her, never to return, even as his queen lay dying. In many ways Mary failed as a woman but triumphed as a queen. She ruled with the full measure of royal majesty and achieved much of what she set out to do. She won her rightful throne, married her Spanish prince, and restored the country to Roman Catholicism. The Spanish marriage was a match with the most powerful ruling house in Europe, and the highly favorable marriage treaty ultimately won the support of the English government. She had defeated the rebels and preserved the Tudor monarchy. Her Catholicism was not simply conservative but influenced by her humanist education and showed many signs of broad acceptance before she died. She was an intelligent, politically adept, and resolute monarch who proved to be very much her own woman. Thanks to Mary, John Aylmer, in exile in Switzerland, could confidently assert that "it is not in England so dangerous a matter to have a woman ruler, as men take it to be." By securing the throne following Edward's attempts to bar both his sisters, she ensured that the crown continued along the legal line of Tudor succession. Mary laid down other important precedents that would benefit her sister. Upon her accession as the first queen regnant of England, she redefined royal ritual and law, thereby establishing that a female ruler, married or unmarried, would enjoy identical power and authority to male monarchs. Mary was the Tudor trailblazer, a politiccal pioneer whose reign redefined the English monarchy." ~Anna Whitelock, MARY TUDOR: PRINCESS, BASTARD, QUEEN

Furthermore, as the country shifted from Catholicism to Protestantism, people began to find it easier to vilify her. During the Victorian age, England was at its height. People would say that the sun never set on the English Empire, and as a result, there was a growing sense of nationalism. Previously beloved figures like Queen Elizabeth I, Kings Edward III, Henry V, among others, were no longer kings and queens for people to admire and look upon but national symbols of pride, who were almost god-like. Edward III's victories against the French, Henry V's conquest of France, Elizabeth's Protestantism and victory against Spain with the Spanish Armada and other Catholic rivals, were extolled, and glorified, while Mary I's foreign ancestry was looked down upon. Ironically, all of these monarchs were also foreign in one way or another. You can say that Queen Elizabeth I wasn't because her parents were English, but what about her paternal ancestry, or her maternal one? No matter which way you look at it, she had foreign ancestry as much as any monarch. In fact, the Victorian era's own monarch, was of foreign descent as well! Victoria wasn't even an English name. She was named after her mother, Victoria of the Saxe-Coburg clan who was German and she married her cousin, who was also German. It was very common for royals to marry other royals, which meant that their offspring would be of foreign descent. In Mary's time this wouldn't be a reason to look down on her, on the contrary, she could point to her royal ancestors, be they foreign or not, with pride as a sign of how much royal blood flowed through her veins, making her eligible to be her father's heir. But as it has been pointed out before, times change and with it, so does our view of every historical figure.

[lady-plantagenet]

for the ship bingo........... henry vii / elizabeth of york 🥺💞

Well hellooo :) it’s fitting you should ask me as you have pretty much formed my opinions about this ship through your blog and writing!

Some Comments:

Well in short, I ship them. So there goes for the delicious, but naturally I’m a bit picky about how it’s portrayed because I feel like most people don’t get to the dynamic I envision. Too often Elizabeth is depicted as this ice princess as opposed to her golden-girl music-loving card-playing self. Also a lot of depictions of these two undergo the awkward ‘we hate each other’ beggining phase (based on the assumption that Henry suspected her to be unchaste and her thinking she’s too good for him) which I don’t really care for. Enemies to lovers is all well and good but I prefer the *infatuation at first sight* depiction far more. After all, the whole tale of him winning a battle and vanquishing the man who usurped her brothers is so chivalric and poetic and I like to think Elizabeth would have seen it that way. So yes, I’m intrigued because this angle should be played more. I do read fic for it *winks at the asker* and would read more *winks again*. Though I prefer to see this ship as completely romantic, I would not mind a platonic depiction of it either that much so I also checked that box along with best friends. However, I do find that they have chemistry, this is view is also brought on by their appearances: I like curvier women with thinner men hhh, and also the Henry depiction from Shadows of the Tower + asker’s work has made me see the man as someone with a cheeky sense of humour and great personality, whereas before he was just stuck in my head as a middle-aged grump man :((. ‘Softly’ works because I really see her as mellowing him out a bit, taking the edge of with her affable character and look, this shows in how much changed he was after she passed away :(. Male widowers always get to me :’(((. Henry also strikes me as one with a heart that is very difficult to squirrel your way into and you really get the sense that Elizabeth managed to do that :). She truly was the salve. In a way the positivity of this whole ship is also what makes it have good best-friends potential, but as I said I prefer a romantic depiction.

The Ship:

In short I do ship them. I find I’m attracted to relationships that give me the impression of one being the sun and the other the moon type of thing. By that I mean one party being the sunny, happier, charismatic one which balances nicely the more grounded, serious, mysterious other. From what we know about their personalities it is quite clear which is which. Also I have fond memories of this pairing from that children’s song: sing a song of sixpence hhh, with the king counting his money in the counting house and the queen being in the parlour eating bread and honey agshdj. I always saw Elizabeth as quite an indulged daddy’s girl so I get the feeling that she wouldn’t have wanted a straining life full of politicking and fight like her predecessors and so it’s nice to see that she found herself in a marriage with a husband and king capable enough to preserve her ‘softness’ as it were. I’m a massive fan of her father Edward IV so I always see him in her and this placed against the fact that many of Henry’s policies built upon her father’s (eg the restrictions put on retention and livery-wearing) gives me this adorable headcanon image that Edward IV is smiling on them from down in heaven (I mean yes I know Tudor and him were erstwhile enemies but hey the circumstances changed). And maybe her own similarities with her father, yet simultaneously her embracing of him as both a king and a husband - I like to think may have made him feel less of an outsider to the country from which he was exiled from for most of his life. I also like relationships where you get a sense that the two parties’ pious nature’s really brought them together because it adds this gravity to it beyond physical attraction or such.

Bonus: I love love ships where’s theres that one super involved shipper of an in-law LMAO (I’m looking at you Margaret Beaufort)

[aegor-bamfsteel]

I had this fic idea where: Calla, Haegon, their mother and youngest siblings didn't escape and they were taken as hostages in the Red Keep. Calla kind of ends up "playing the game" and trying to forge a better life for her mom and siblings while trying to overcome her trauma of losing her brothers and dead, her anxiety over Daemon II not being around and not having any contact with him and Haegon most likely going to the faith. And she also has survivors guilt. Basically this is a "Calla plays the game while trying to survive" (this includes her glaring at BR and lowkey planning his death, finding Matarys endearing because he's actually fairly nice and so is his brother/dad, she also looks like her mom. OH AND SHE DYES HER HAIR QUITE OFTEN)

Basically my question was: how much would have changed if Calla, Haegon and their mom and younger siblings didn't get to escape?

That’s a really interesting, elaborate fic idea, dearxstorm! If you end up writing it, make sure to link me and I’ll write a comment! Calla has the potential to be an interesting character, and your characterization of her in the prompt sort of lines up with my own (having the Sweetness hiding Steel personality); I like the idea of a psychological story of her dealing with the loss of her family while trapped in a court that hates her at best. I also like your headcanon that she dyes her hair, because it’s a physical identification with her mother’s people; all too often, in asoiaf as in other works of fantasy, the heroes of noble families identify more with their father’s house at the expense of their mother’s (the young Starks identify more with their father’s house to a lesser degree than the others, but even the young Greyjoys are krakens rather than Harlaws, the young Martells don’t consider themselves half-Norvosi, forget about Aegon V + siblings identifying themselves as something other than the blood of the dragon), and it’s the villains that tend to include parts of their mother’s heritage (the Baratheons of king’s landing include a lion in their sigil, the Greens from the Dance of Dragons owed their initial success to their Hightower mother). In addition, Essosi women are almost to a woman treated horribly in Westeros; divorced (Mellario, Larra), exiled (Rohanne), or tortured and killed (Mysaria, Tyanna, Serala, Serenei), so it’s great you decided to single out Rohanne’s Essosi influence on her children as something neutral to positive.

As for your question about what would happen if Calla+family didn’t manage to escape, I asked warsofasoiaf about it years ago; his response that Bl00draven would’ve had them all killed, while certainly in-character (his consistent character trait is harming boys to accomplish his goals), isn’t particularly satisfying for writing a fanfic with these characters. We see Da3ron II took lands and hostages from those who knelt; Lord Bracken’s son died during the Great Spring Sickness, perhaps as a hostage in King’s Landing; Eustace Osgrey’s daughter and only heir Alysanne was sent to the Silent Sisters at age 7, while Standfast went from a prominent lordly house to one of landed knights. Daemon’s lands and titles were likely under attainder, being of fairly recent creation. In Westeros, killing (mostly male heirs) or sending to the Faith (more likely female heirs) the child rivals to one’s lordly power seems to be the norm (most infamously Aegon and Rhaenys Targaryen on Tywin’s orders, but also Cerelle Lannister by her uncle Gerold, Rohanne and Cerelle Tarbeck were sent to the Silent Sisters and Rohanne’s young son was likely murdered during the Reyne Rebellion, the extermination of Houses Darklyn and Hollard bar one after the Defiance of Duskendale). So I tried to look at examples from medieval history to see if I could save the younger Blackfyre boys:

As much grief as I give GRRM for not being historically accurate while claiming he’s true to life, the gendered fate of young male and female rivals who were captured seems to pass muster: with boys usually being killed or “disappeared” (Arthur of Brittany was imprisoned then murdered by his uncle King John of England, the Princes in the Tower mysteriously vanished with the prime suspect as their uncle Richard III) and girls either imprisoned (Arthur’s sister Eleanor was imprisoned for 44 years until her death by her uncle John and cousin Henry), forced into a convent (Gwenllian Princess of Wales by Edward I, Joanna la Beltraneja was given a choice between this or marrying her infant cousin Juan by his mother Isabella of Castile), or married to steal their lands/unite claims (Arthur’s mother Constance was betrothed to his father from age 5 after her brother was forcibly disinherited from the duchy of Brittany, and I’m still not sure what happened to him; Eleanor de Montfort was eventually married to Llewellyn of Wales after she was captured and imprisoned by the English). 

I think the best hope for the Blackfyre boys is for them be rescued and taken to Tyrosh (although Bl00draven would probably try to separate them to prevent all of them taken at once). 

A longer-term option is for Rohanne’s relatives in Tyrosh to try to negotiate their release, probably with a solemn oath never to return to Westeros (happened with the Charles VII’s cousin Charles Duke of Orleans who spent 25 years in various English prisons after his capture by the English at Agincourt until his old rivals the Burgundians negotiated his release; Amaury de Montfort, despite having taken holy vows, was captured along with his sister Eleanor and only by swearing never to return to England and the Pope plus Llewellyn intervening was he released).

Failing that, maybe Baelor Breakspear could try to go ‘the Dontos Hollard route’, asking for clemency out of the boys’ age/birth, and sending them to King’s Landing as squires, and probably make sure they don’t return to their old lands. I doubt they’d be allowed to wed, but I suppose Rohanne could petition for a restoration of Daemon’s old lands to House Blackfyre (as Anne Scott managed to save her lands from her husband Duke James’ attainder after the Monmouth rebellion, and her two surviving sons by him were able to marry and inherit and were loyal to the crown), and they could be wed into a loyal Red house of Da3ron’s choosing; it’d be her grandchildren inheriting these lands (Elizabeth I imprisoned her cousin Katherine Grey for the rest of her life for secretly marrying and had her separated from her two sons, but they were allowed to marry and her grandson became the next Duke of Somerset, despite his family reputation). Not Daemon II if he’s been captured with the others, but possibly Aenys. I’m not saying this is a likely scenario considering the characterization of Bl00draven and the actions of Da3ron II to the other children of rebels, but it’s a kinder solution that maybe Baelor might come up with.

I don’t imagine that these boys will be sent to the Faith, but rather the Night’s Watch seems to be the place for defeated rebels/men sentenced to death; so in all likelihood at least the elder ones could be sent to the Night’s Watch once they’re old enough. Westeros as well as medieval history has shown how easy it could be to take someone from a convent/monastery and use them to take their lands/incite a rebellion (Robar abducting Rhaella from the Faith; Marie of Boulogne was abducted from her convent by Matthew of Alsace to forcibly marry him to steal her lands), plus these vows can be undone (at least in medieval Italy, where sometimes cardinals had to leave the Church to get married to continue their family line; it’s implied in the sentences of Lucinda and Priscella that septas can break their vows) so I think at least the elder ones would not be allowed.

The Blackfyre girls have a higher chance of not being murdered. The worst case-scenario that I could unfortunately see happening is sending them to the Silent Sisters along with poor Alysanne Osgrey, which seems to happen to the most dangerous of noblewomen (rebel queen Marla Sunderland, sasser-of-kings Maris Baratheon, Ellyn Reyne’s daughters Rohanne and Cerelle), all potential heiresses for another rebellion (not likely with so many brothers, but if they manage to escape and another uprising coalesces around them who knows). Another option would be to the Faith to be septas, which happened to more minor noblewomen men wanted out of the way (Rhaella and Megette’s daughters for their “inconvenient birth”, Lucinda Penrose and Priscella Hogg for their roles in the plot to kill Daenaera). 

A particularly painful scenario would be confining them in the Maidenvault until/if a new king decides to release them as their grandmother Daena was. Considering that the next king is Aerys, I doubt they would be released (like Eleanor of Brittany) or marry

It seems not uncommon in Westeros for an ambitious man to marry an heiress of the previous ruler to become suo jure lord of her lands (Tyrek Lannister’s marriage to the infant Lady Ermesande Hayford, Dickon Tarly’s marriage to Eleanor Mooton, Lancel’s marriage to Amerei Frey to steal Darry, and most famously Orys Baratheon’s forcible marriage to Argella Durrandon). The problem with doing this in regards to the Blackfyre girls is that considering their father’s lands are probably under attainder, they don’t have lands to inherit, much less a dowry. Of course, Rohanne could try to petition for a creation of new lands, possibly in exchange for giving up their claim to the throne (Princess Renee of France gave up her claim to the duchy of Brittany in exchange for being made duchess of Chartres by King Francis I, so she could finally be allowed to marry). Another idea would be to send them abroad for matches to Essosi cities the Reds have ties to, such as Lys and Pentos. In a happy scenario, the Blackfyre girls were allowed to marry with permission; to show that Da3ron is serious about healing the realm, he or Baelor could betrothe Calla and Matarys (not expected to inherit the throne; your prompt said they were getting along!). What happens after his death in the Great Spring Sickness is anyone’s guess.

In the edgy scenario, the girls marry without permission, possibly to a Velaryon descendant of Baela’s (just going by my theory of at least some Velaryons as Blackfyre supporters); it seems in medieval England that some potential female claimants to the crown did marry secretly to men with more distant claims (Lady Katherine Grey as mentioned before, but also Lady Arabella Stuart two generations later, to Grey’s own grandson), thus frustrating the desires of their monarchs to marry them abroad. Sometimes they were able to escape their captors and raise their children in exile, eventually allowed to return to their home country; the most famous of these was Margaret Beaufort and her son Henry, who later won the English throne by right of conquest with weak dynastic claim.

A lot of these scenarios ignore the canonical cruelty of Bl00draven and the vindictiveness of Da3ron with regards to the Blackfyres and their supporters; I don’t imagine that they would show mercy to the defeated rebels, and warsofasoiaf’s scenario that they would all be secretly murdered is definitely a possibility. They also ignore Rohanne’s characterization (such that it is) of a take-charge noblewoman who was in my opinion unquestionably a pro-Blackfyre rebel that used her money and influence in Tyrosh to provide a home for the exiles and orchestrated their escape (the idea that Aegor Rivers helped Rohanne escape to her own country seems to diminish her achievements); I don’t think she would be asking the Targaryens for any favors, considering in canon she knew them well enough that she preferred to flee than surrender to the House that gave Bl00draven high office. Barring the “Bl00draven kills them all” scenario, I don’t think she would be executed due to her sex and that she’s from foreign nobility (especially if her male relative was still Archon), but we have no idea if the Faith is an option for her (did she convert? Considering the characterization of GRRM’s other Essosi women as holding to their homeland’s traditions, I doubt it); it’s likely to me she would be separated from her children, who would be governed by Red supporters (maybe if Rhaena is still alive, she could coach the girls?), an emotionally hard punishment for her (considering all of her canonical actions involve her children, it seems she loved them very much). It’s possible she might be sent back to Tyrosh as a gesture of goodwill to her family, after some years of confinement; or she could be sent to a remote location, like Cassandra Baratheon upon a forced marriage to Walter Brownhill.

tl;dr If the Blackfyres and Rohanne aren’t going to be murdered after being captured: the boys would likely go to the Night’s Watch once old enough, or imprisoned in the Red Keep and married under ideal conditions; the girls might go to the Faith, imprisoned in the Maidenvault, married off to non-Tyroshi Essosi, or secretly married; Rohanne would likely be briefly imprisoned, separated from her children, and either sent to the remote countryside or Tyrosh. What happens to them depends on how merciful the Reds are feeling, and how much of a risk they deem them to be. Just expect that if someone leads a rebellion in their name, for the boys to die. 

[butterflies-dragons]

ELEANOR OF AQUITAINE

Art credit: Kinuko Y. Craft

Eleanor of Aquitaine, also called Eleanor of Guyenne, French Éléonore or Aliénor, d’Aquitaine or de Guyenne, (born c. 1122—died April 1, 1204, Fontevrault, Anjou, France), queen consort of both Louis VII of France (1137–52) and Henry II of England (1152–1204) and mother of Richard I (the Lion-Heart) and John of England. She was perhaps the most powerful woman in 12th-century Europe.

—Britannica

Eleanor of Aquitaine (1122-1204) was one of the most powerful and influential figures of the Middle Ages. Inheriting a vast estate at the age of 15 made her the most sought-after bride of her generation. She would eventually become the queen of France, the queen of England and lead a crusade to the Holy Land. She is also credited with establishing and preserving many of the courtly rituals of chivalry.

—History

This mighty medieval woman outwitted and outlasted her rivals. Ruler of two nations, mother to kings and queens, leader of a crusade: Eleanor of Aquitaine was a savvy power player in medieval France and England.

When reviewing the history of medieval Europe, no woman stands out as much as Eleanor of Aquitaine. Once the most eligible woman in Europe, she became queen of two nations, leader of a crusade, mother of kings, and patron of the arts. Her power and prestige earned her enemies in the 12th century, and her critics authored a black legend founded on gossip and rumor that has fueled ideas about her until the present time.

—National Geographic

Eleanor of Aquitaine [...] she was one of the most kick-ass women of the Middle Ages and, you know, she had her own crusade, or she went on crusade rather and she married two kings and then was the mother of several more, she was a great character.

—GRRM

***

The past April I wrote a very long post about the parallels between Good Queen Alysanne and Sansa Stark.  Consider this post its continuation, so I highly recommend you to read that post first before continuing reading this one. 

As I said before, I discovered that GRRM not only took inspiration from Katharine Hepburn playing Eleanor of Aquitaine in the film ´The Lion in Winter´ for Alysanne’s looks, he also took a lot from Eleanor’s life to write Alysanne, like Eleanor’s second marriage with her cousin Henry II of England with whom she had 8 children (Alysanne/Jaehaerys & their 13 children) and Eleanor’s Court of Love (Alysanne Women’s Courts).

But not only that, I also discovered that Eleanor of Aquitaine shares a lot of similarities with no other than SANSA STARK.

Join me in this new adventure, I assure you, it’s gonna be a blast!

ELEANOR, ALYSANNE AND SANSA

HIGHBORN

Eleanor was born to William X, Duke of Aquitaine and Count of Poitiers, and Aénor, Viscountess of Châtellerault, around 1122, in what is now southwestern France.  Eleanor was the oldest of the couple’s three children; she had a younger sister, Petronilla, and a younger brother, William Aigret. Various biographers also report that Eleanor had two bastard half-brothers, William and Joscelin. 

Alysanne was born to Aenys Targaryen and Lady Alyssa Velaryon in 36 AC, at King's Landing.  Alysanne was the fifth of the couple’s six children; she had four older siblings, Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys and Jaehaerys, and a younger sister, Vaella.  Alysanne also had two younger highborn half-siblings, Boremund and Jocelyn Baratheon.

Sansa was born to Eddard Stark, Lord of Winterfell, and Lady Catellyn Tully of Riverrun in 286 AC, at Winterfell.  Sansa was the second of the couple’s five children; she had an older brother, Robb, and three younger siblings, Arya, Bran and Rickon. Sansa also had a bastard half-brother, Jon Snow. 

Take note of how similar these ladies’ half-siblings names are: Joscelin, Jocelyn & Jon.

APPEARANCE

Back in 2006, many years before Fire & Blood, GRRM gave us this description of Good Queen Alysanne Targaryen:

You might consider Alysanne as the Eleanor of Aquitaine of Westeros, and model her on Katharine Hepburn’s portrayal of Eleanor in the film THE LION IN WINTER. Tall and straight, unbowed by time, she had high cheekbones, clear blue eyes. Age left crow’s feet around her eyes and laugh lines about her mouth, but her face never lost its strength. She was a fine archer and hunter in her youth, and loved to fly atop her dragon to all the distant parts of the realm. Alysanne was slim of waist and small of breast, with a long neck, a fair complexion, a high forehead. In old age her hair turned white as snow. She wore it in a bun, pulled back and pinned behind her hear.  [Source] 

There is not a reliable description of Eleanor of Aquitaine true appearance, just various interpretations of her physical features based on old paintings and medieval illuminations that are presumed, by writers and historians, to be of her.  Sometimes she is described and/or depicted as black of ayes and hair, others says she was blonde with blue or grey eyes, and in other cases she had auburn hair with green or grey eyes.  For more details about Eleanor’s appearance, you can read:

Elizabeth Chadwick’s blog entry: “Eleanor of Aquitaine’s Appearance or not”; and,

Michael R. Evans’ book “Inventing Eleanor: The Medieval and Post-Medieval Image of Eleanor of Aquitaine”  

The beautiful art pieces of Eleanor of Aquitaine that I chose to illustrate this post, created by the extraordinaire artist Kinuko Y. Craft, depict a redhead and blue eyed Eleanor. About this choice of the artist, Michael R. Evans tells us this:

Works of fiction are more likely to use modern images of Eleanor, such as Margaret Ball’s ‘Duchess of Aquitaine’, which employs a dynamic painting of Eleanor by the Japanese-American artist Kinuko Y. Craft. The Queen appears on horseback, crowned, with a falcon on her left wrist and long red hair floating behind her. This image matches the modern perception of Eleanor as an active, confident female authority figure. The falcon and the appearance of Eleanor on horseback both recall the Sainte-Radegonde fresco, although Craft states that she was not influenced by it.       

As you can see, we can’t make a true parallel between the physical features of Eleanor, Alysanne and Sansa. But what is a certainty is that GRRM took inspiration from Katharine Hepburn playing Eleanor of Aquitaine in the film ´The Lion in Winter´ for Alysanne’s looks:

So, for the ASOIAF universe created by GRRM:

Eleanor (Katharine Hepburn): Reddish brown hair + blue eyes  

Alysanne: Honey-colored curls + blue eyes

Sansa: Auburn hair + blue eyes

I see a patter here, auburn is by definition a reddish brown color, and if you googled ‘honey colored hair’ you would see a vast variety of reddish brown or reddish blonde hair colors. Enough said.

NAME

Eleanor is said to have been named for her mother Aénor, Viscountess of Châtellerault, and called Aliénor from the Latin ‘Alia Aenor’, which means ‘the other Aénor’. It became Eléanor in the langues d'oïl of northern France and Eleanor in English. 

It’s probable that George played with the Aénor/Aliénor pattern when he created Alysanne’s name, that is very similar to his mother’s name: Alyssa Velaryon. 

There is not this pattern in Sansa and Catelyn, Sansa was probably named after the other one Sansa in the whole ASOIAF universe: Sansa Stark, daughter of Rickon Stark, heir to Lord Cregan Stark of Winterfell, and his wife, Jeyne Manderly. She had an older sister, Serena Stark. She married his half uncle Lord Jonnel Stark.  

But the name Alayne it’s a different story. Alayne is certainly closer to Catelyn than Sansa, but most relevant to this post, Alayne is very similar to Alysanne. 

In summary:

Aénor/Aliénor

Alyssa/Alysanne

Catelyn/Alayne (Sansa) + Alysanne/Alayne (Sansa)

EDUCATION

Look at these reports about Eleanor’s education:

Their ducal court had a fine reputation as a patron of the arts. Eleanor’s grandfather, William IX, was known as the “troubadour duke,” famous for his poetry and songs about heroism and courtly love. Poets of the time, especially the famous Marcabru, found hospitality at the court of Aquitaine.

Culture and learning were a family tradition for Eleanor, who received the best possible education of the time. She was taught mathematics, astronomy, history, literature, Latin, and music. She also learned arts and crafts: embroidery, needlepoint, sewing, and spinning. Like any daughter of nobility, she danced and sang, as well as rode horses and went hunting. Like many noble daughters, Eleanor would have been raised to be a nobleman’s wife and was probably not expected to play any role in governing.  

—National Geographic

By all accounts, Eleanor's father ensured that she had the best possible education. Eleanor came to learn arithmetic, the constellations, and history. She also learned domestic skills such as household management and the needle arts of embroidery, needlepoint, sewing, spinning, and weaving. Eleanor developed skills in conversation, dancing, games such as backgammon, checkers, and chess, playing the harp, and singing. Although her native tongue was Poitevin, she was taught to read and speak Latin, was well versed in music and literature, and schooled in riding, hawking, and hunting. 

—Wikipedia

She was well educated by her cultured father, William X, Duke of Aquitaine, thoroughly versed in literature, philosophy, and languages and trained to the rigors of court life when she became her father’s heir presumptive at the age 5. An avid horsewoman, she led an active life until she inherited her father’s title and extensive lands upon his death when she was 15. 

—History

Sounds familiar?

No man ever questioned her wits. Later, it would be said of her that she learned to read before she was weaned, and the court fool would make japes about little Alysanne dribbling mother’s milk on Valyrian scrolls as she tried to read whilst suckling at her wet nurse’s teat. Had she been a boy she would surely have been sent to the Citadel to forge a maester’s chain. —Fire & Blood

It is written that the young king and queen were seldom apart during that time, sharing every meal, talking late into the night of the green days of their childhood and the challenges ahead, fishing and hawking together, mingling with the island's smallfolk in dockside inns, reading to one another from dusty leatherbound tomes they found in the castle library, taking lessons together from Dragonstone's maesters (“for we still have much to learn,” Alysanne is said to have reminded her husband). —Fire & Blood

“If I had not become a queen, I might have liked to be a teacher,” she told the Conclave. “I read, I write, I think, I am not afraid of ravens… or a bit of blood. There are other highborn girls who feel the same. Why not admit them to your Citadel? —Fire & Blood 

For three days she lost herself in the Citadel’s great library, emerging only to attend lectures on the Valyrian dragon wars, leechcraft, and the gods of the Summer Isles. —Fire & Blood

Once the initial frost had thawed, his lordship took the queen hunting after elk and wild boar in the wolfswood, showed her the bones of a giant, and allowed her to rummage as she pleased through his modest castle library. —Fire & Blood

And here is Sansa:

Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. […] It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward. —AGOT  - Arya I

Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteous and eager to please. She loved nothing so well as tales of knightly valor. —A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

Sansa Stark, he mused. Soft-spoken sweet-smelling Sansa, who loved silks, songs, chivalry and tall gallant knights with handsome faces. —A Storm of Swords - Tyrion III

So the singer played for her, so soft and sad that Arya only heard snatches of the words, though the tune was half-familiar. Sansa would know it, I bet. Her sister had known all the songs, and she could even play a little, and sing so sweetly. All I could ever do was shout the words.—A Storm of Swords - Arya IV

The queen took Sansa’s hand in both of hers. “Child, do you know your letters Sansa nodded nervously. She could read and write better than any of her brothers, although she was hopeless at sums. —AGOT - Sansa IV

She pulled a chair close to the hearth, took down one of her favorite books, and lost herself in the stories of Florian and Jonquil, of Lady Shella and the Rainbow Knight, of valiant Prince Aemon and his doomed love for his brother’s queen. —AGOT - Sansa IV

“Do you read well, Alayne?” “Septa Mordane was good enough to say so.” —A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

No one ransomed the northmen, though. One fat lordling haunted the kitchens [...] and the clasp that held his cloak was a silver-and-sapphire trident. He belonged to Lord Tywin, but the fierce, bearded young man [...] in a black cloak patterned with white suns had been taken by some hedge knight who meant to get rich off him. Sansa would have known who he was, and the fat one too, but Arya had never taken much interest in titles and sigils. Whenever Septa Mordane had gone on about the history of this house and that house, she was inclined to drift and dream and wonder when the lesson would be done. —A Clash of Kings - Arya VII

Later, while Sansa was off listening to a troupe of singers perform the complex round of interwoven ballads called the “Dance of the Dragons,” [sung in High Valyrian] Ned inspected the bruise himself. “I hope Forel is not being too hard on you,” he said. —AGOT - Eddard VII

Do you hawk, Sansa?" "A little," she admitted. —A Storm of Swords - Sansa I

The day before last she'd taken Sansa hawking. [...] Sansa's merlin brought down three ducks while Margaery's peregrine took a heron in full flight. —A Storm of Swords - Sansa II

Sansa can ride despite not enjoying the physical exertion of the activity.

Despite it is said that Sansa is bad with numbers and can’t manage a household, Alayne Stone is doing pretty well as de facto Lady of the Eyrie.

As final note on this section, Eleanor’s grandfather Willian IX being called “the troubadour duke” reminds me of Bael the Bard, being kin with the Starks. The Aquitaine court sounds as magical and cultured as what Sansa once thought the Red Keep court would be, full of musicians and poets and courtly love.  

HEIRESS 

Eleanor inherited the largest and richest lands of France at a very young age:

Eleanor’s four-year-old brother William Aigret and their mother died at the castle of Talmont on Aquitaine's Atlantic coast in the spring of 1130. Eleanor became the heir presumptive to her father's domains. The Duchy of Aquitaine was the largest and richest province of France. Poitou, where Eleanor spent most of her childhood, and Aquitaine together was almost one-third the size of modern France. (...)

Eleanor, aged 12 to 15, then became the duchess of Aquitaine, and thus the most eligible heiress in Europe. (...)

The death of William, one of the king's most powerful vassals, made available the most desirable duchy in France. While presenting a solemn and dignified face to the grieving Aquitainian messengers, Louis exulted when they departed. Rather than act as guardian to the duchess and duchy, he decided to marry the duchess to his 17-year-old heir and bring Aquitaine under the control of the French crown, thereby greatly increasing the power and prominence of France and its ruling family, the House of Capet. Within hours, the king had arranged for his son Louis to be married to Eleanor. 

—Wikipedia

Eleanor was the daughter and heiress of William X, duke of Aquitaine and count of Poitiers, who possessed one of the largest domains in France—larger, in fact, than those held by the French king. Upon William’s death in 1137 she inherited the duchy of Aquitaine. [Source]

Eleanor inherited her father’s title and extensive lands upon his death when she was 15, becoming in one stroke duchess of Aquitaine and by far the most eligible single young woman in Europe. She was placed under the guardianship of the king of France, and within hours was betrothed to his son and heir, Louis. The king sent an escort of 500 men to convey the news to Eleanor and transport her to her new home. 

—Britannica

Eleanor inherited her father’s title and extensive lands upon his death when she was 15, becoming in one stroke duchess of Aquitaine and by far the most eligible single young woman in Europe. She was placed under the guardianship of the king of France, and within hours was betrothed to his son and heir, Louis. The king sent an escort of 500 men to convey the news to Eleanor and transport her to her new home. 

—History

William X [Eleanor’s father] controlled many territories in west and central France including Aquitaine, Poitiers, Gascony, Limousin, and Auvergne. (...)

During the 12th century, monarchies were gaining power and expanding across Europe as alliances formed and linked them together. Powerful aristocracies that fell within their kingdoms still held great influence and needed to be respected. In France the Capetian dynasty ruled a slice of north-central France, the so-called Île-de-France, between the Seine and the Loire. The royal house of France, the Capets, when Eleanor was born, was led by King Louis VI (also known as Louis the Fat).

Much of what is now France was divided up into powerful dukedoms—Normandy, Brittany, and Aquitaine—and large counties—Flanders, Anjou, Lorraine, Champagne, Bourgogne, and Toulouse, some of which were larger and richer than the possessions of the Capetian dynasty. Of the dukedoms, the duchy of Aquitaine was one of the largest, wealthiest, and most influential.

To complicate matters, in 1066 William, Duke of Normandy (also known as William the Conqueror), became king of England. While William was technically a vassal of France on the French side of the English channel, when he was on the other side, he was king of England—the French king’s equal in rank. Who controlled the lands of England and France would lead to many bloody conflicts over the coming centuries as different houses vied for control.

Eleanor played a vital role in these power struggles. Her destiny took a radical turn when her younger brother died in 1130, leaving her the new heiress to her father’s dominions. When her father died unexpectedly in April 1137, while on a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela in Spain, Eleanor was thrust into the world of medieval politics in her early teens. 

Shortly before his death, Eleanor’s father had dictated his will and officially named Eleanor as his heir. He appointed King Louis VI as her guardian, and the Capetian king shrewdly saw a way to bring the lands of Aquitaine under his control. He quickly announced the betrothal of Duchess Eleanor to his 17-year-old son, the future Louis VII.

—National Geographic

We can hardly draw a parallel between Eleanor and Alysanne in this regard. Alysanne was never the heir of her father. Alysanne became Queen consort of Westeros due to her marriage with her older brother Jaehaerys.  But this is certainly a strong parallel between Eleanor and Sansa. 

Sansa Stark, despite the many discussions about the legitimacy of her claim to the North and the secret will of Robb Stark, is considered the heir of the ancestral lands and domains of House Stark, she is called ‘the key to the north’ by Tywin Lannister, the man behind his royals grandsons, King Joffrey and King Tommen Baratheon.  The North is the largest region of Westeros, and Sansa Stark’s claim to Winterfell and the Wardenship of the North is coveted by many lords in order to gain political power and influence.  

If Eleanor of Aquitaine was the most eligible single young heiress in Europe, we can say the same about Sansa Stark in Westeros.  The same way Eleanor played a vital role in Middle Ages European power struggles, Sansa Stark plays a vital role in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros power struggles.  If Eleanor was thrust into the world of medieval politics in her early teens, the same is happening to Sansa Starks in the ASOIAF Books.

As I wrote in an unpublished meta:

It is also very interesting that while Sansa is in the south, we witnessed her objectification numerous times, by every character she interacted with. She’s not only being valued in golden dragons, she has been practically transformed into a stone castle, Winterfell, and the North itself, since the one controlling her would obtain all her lands and power. Or, to use the euphemism used in the Books, she is “the key to the north.”

Sansa reflects about this particular objectification in ASOS and elaborates inside her mind one of the saddest lines in ASOIAF, especially for a girl who yearns to be loved and always dreamed of getting married: “No one will ever marry me for love” (because everyone only wants her claim to Winterfell).

I think Sansa Stark being the most eligible single young heiress in Westeros has been explained in the Books twice already, during the development of Sansa’s arc, and in a more subtle and romantic way in “The Hedge Knight” tale.  

As I explain in yet another unpublished meta of mine about the Ashford Tourney:

(…) I think the repetition of this pattern in the list of men [Ashford Tourney Champions / Sansa’s Suitors] is accentuating the importance of Sansa and her claim to the North in the political scene of Westeros. After all, all of Sansa’s betrothals were arranged to gain political power through her claim to the North, which is the largest region of Westeros. 

Tyrion Lannister, married Sansa following his father’s orders to take control over the North: "The girl's happiness is not my purpose, nor should it be yours. Our alliances in the south may be as solid as Casterly Rock, but there remains the north to win, and the key to the north is Sansa Stark." (…) “When you bring Eddard Stark's grandson home to claim his birthright, lords and little folk alike will rise as one to place him on the high seat of his ancestors. You are capable of getting a woman with child, I hope?"

Joffrey Baratheon, when King Robert proposed Joffrey and Sansa’s betrothal, he was trying to reenact his own betrothal to Lyanna Stark, that was part of the so called Southron Ambitions Theory.

Willas Tyrell, his grandmother Olenna Tyrell secretly arranged his betrothal with Sansa in order to expand their power over another great region of Westeros: “Jonquil, Jonquil, open your sweet eyes, these Tyrells care nothing for you. It’s your claim they mean to wed.” The Lannisters discovered this secret betrothal (thanks to Dontos and Littlefinger) and Sansa ended up married to Tyrion and Cersei betrothed to Willas.

Harrold Hardyng, when Petyr Baelish proposed Harry and Alayne/Sansa betrothal, he was trying to gain more political power to further his own agenda. “When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon... and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back... why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa... Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell”.

See? Tywin Lannister and Petyr Baelish, and even Olenna Tyrell, were acting exactly like Eleanor’s guardian, King Louis VI of France, betrothing her with his son and heir, the future Louis VII, as a way to bring the lands of Aquitaine under his control.

FIRST MARRIAGE

Eleanor became Queen consort of France due to her first marriage to his cousin Louis VII.  This marriage lasted 15 years and only produced two daughters:    

Louis and Eleanor were married in July 1137, but had little time to get to know one another before Louis’ father the king fell ill and died. Within weeks of her wedding, Eleanor found herself taking possession of the drafty and unwelcoming Cîté Palace in Paris that would be her new home. On Christmas Day of the same year, Louis and Eleanor were crowned king and queen of France. 

—History

The wedding was celebrated in Bordeaux on July 25, 1137. Seven days later, Louis the Fat was dead, leaving the teenagers Louis and Eleanor to rule as king and queen. The two were coronated at Bourges Cathedral later that year on Christmas Day. Despite the marriage, the lands of Eleanor’s family would not come under the control of the Capetian dynasty. According to the terms of her father’s will, Queen Eleanor first had to give birth to a son, who then had to reach the age of majority and become the new duke of Aquitaine before the lands would officially pass to Louis’s family. (…)

The marriage was not a fruitful one. The couple did not have many children. Eleanor only gave birth to two daughters: Marie, countess of Champagne, in 1145, and Alice (or Alix), countess of Blois, around 1150. By most accounts, the marriage’s failure to produce a male heir led to greater tensions between husband and wife. 

—National Geographic

The marriage was not a bed of roses:

Louis and Eleanor’s first years as rulers were fraught with power struggles with their own vassals – the powerful Count Theobald of Champagne for one – and with the Pope in Rome. Louis, still young and intemperate, made a series of military and diplomatic blunders that set him at odds with the Pope and several of his more powerful lords. The conflict that ensued culminated in the massacre of hundreds of innocents in the town of Vitry — during a siege of the town, a great number of the populace took refuge in a church, which was set aflame by Louis’s troops. Dogged by guilt over his role in the tragedy for years, Louis responded eagerly to the Pope’s call for a crusade in 1145. Eleanor joined him on the dangerous – and ill fated – journey west. The crusade did not go well, and Eleanor and Louis grew increasingly estranged. 

—History

In 1142 Petronilla, Eleanor’s sister, fell in love with the married count of Vermandois, who was married to Eleanor of Champagne, daughter of a powerful French family. The count set aside his wife and married Petronilla. Critics saw Eleanor’s hand in the affair, which may have been a love match, but could have served a strategic purpose of strengthening the bonds between the Capetian crown and the House of Aquitaine.

Petronilla’s marriage led to a war between Louis and the count of Champagne in 1142. In 1143 Louis ordered the burning of the small town of Vitry-en-Perthois, killing as many as 1,500 people. The church condemned the actions of the French crown, which caused the pious Louis deep shame. He vowed to mount a crusade to atone for it. (…)

A series of disastrous military decisions resulted in the failure of the Second Crusade. In 1149 Louis and Eleanor boarded ships to sail back to France in defeat. For Louis VII, the Crusade was a twofold disaster: He had been away from his kingdom for two years, involved in expensive military campaigns the results of which were humiliating, and his marriage had completely broken down.

—National Geographic

As you can see Eleanor’s first marriage was not a successful one, it produce not male heir and it was full of political and religious conflicts.  All of that resulted in Eleanor’s decision to seek an annulment.     Alysanne only married one man, her older brother Jaehaerys, but she married him twice.  The first time Alysanne and Jaehaerys eloped to Dragonstone and the marriage remained unconsummated.  That period was the happiest time of her romantic relationship with her husband; she called that time, and Idyll:

“Queen Alysanne, for her part, was in no haste to return to court. “Here I have you to myself, day and night,” she told Jaehaerys. “When we go back, I shall be fortunate to snatch an hour with you, for every man in Westeros will want a piece of you.” For her, these days on Dragonstone were an idyll. “Many years from now when we are old and grey, we shall look back upon these days and smile, remembering how happy we were.” 

—Fire & Blood

The period after their second wedding and coronation as King and Queen of Westeros were not as happy as their days at Dragonstone.  

Alysanne’s older siblings, Aegon and Rhaena, incestuous marriage originated several problems and conflicts with the Faith of the Seven and their more fervent followers, because the Faith condemned the Targaryen’s brother and sister incest customs.  That’s why Alysanne and Jaehareys’ mother, Queen Alyssa, originally planned other betrothals for them.  But Alysanne and Jaehaerys eloped and kept their first wedding in secret until Jaehaerys came of age and they were crowned as King and Queen of Westeros.  Later the Doctrine of Exceptionalism was invented as justification of the Targaryen’s incest customs.  Jaehaerys and Alysanne kept the Great Septon and the Faith’s followers in line thanks to a huge propaganda campaign and their dragons.      

Sansa Stark first marriage involved no love between bride and groom. Sansa was forced to marry Tyrion Lannister as a way to give her new husbands’s family, control and power over the North.  The marriage was unconsummated and of course produced no male heir or any children, the bride ran away, and Tyrion Lannister was accused of regicide, ruining Tywin Lannister original plans for northern domination.

Sansa’s first marriage caused no problems with the Faith of the Seven, but she is in need of the High Septon’s help to gain the annulment of her marriage with Tyrion Lannister.  

MARRIAGE ANNULMENT

Eleanor requested the annulment of her first marriage with her cousin Louis VII of France more than once:

After several fraught years during which Eleanor sought an annulment and Louis faced increasing public criticism, they were eventually granted an annulment on the grounds of consanguinity (being related by blood) in 1152 and separated, their two daughters left in the custody of the king.

—History

From 1147 to 1149 Eleanor accompanied Louis on the Second Crusade to protect the fragile Latin kingdom of Jerusalem, founded after the First Crusade only 50 years before, from Turkish assault. Eleanor’s conduct during this expedition, especially at the court of her uncle Raymond of Poitiers at Antioch, aroused Louis’s jealousy and marked the beginning of their estrangement. After their return to France and a short-lived reconciliation, their marriage was annulled in March 1152.

According to feudal customs, Eleanor then regained possession of Aquitaine. 

—Britannica

After the couple returned to Europe, they met with Pope Eugene III who tried to reconcile them—even threatening excommunication. It was no use, the union was doomed: On March 21, 1152, a group of bishops at Beaugency declared Eleanor’s marriage void for reasons of consanguinity. In line with tradition, the daughters remained with their father, and Eleanor retained her duchy in Aquitaine. 

—National Geographic 

On 21 March, the four archbishops, with the approval of Pope Eugene, granted an annulment on grounds of consanguinity within the fourth degree; Eleanor was Louis' third cousin once removed, and shared common ancestry with Robert II of France. Their two daughters were, however, declared legitimate. […] Custody of them was awarded to King Louis. Archbishop Samson received assurances from Louis that Eleanor's lands would be restored to her.  

—Wikipedia

Alysanne never pursued the annulment of her marriage, but she had a lot of tensions and problems with her husband King Jaehaerys, especially because their different views on matters of succession and the sexist and severe treatment that Jaehaerys gave to her daughters.

Sansa Stark is in need of a marriage annulment.  The fact that Eleanor obtained the annulment of her first marriage gives me hope that Sansa will get an annulment for herself and then marry another cousin of hers, willingly this time.  

Sansa won’t be able to plead consanguinity, as Eleanor did, as a ground for her marriage annulment, but she can allege the no consummation of her first marriage with Tyrion Lannister as the ground for the termination of that forced marriage.

GRRM has discussed with a fan the possibilities for Sansa’s first marriage annulment here.

INCEST

Eleanor married two of her cousins: King Louis VII of France and King Henry II of England.  She obtained the annulment of her first marriage with King Louis VII of France on the grounds of consanguinity.  Ironically enough, Eleanor was more closely related to her second husband, Henry Plantagenet, Count of Anjou and Duke of Normandy, future Henry II of England, than she had been to her first husband Louis VII of France. Rumours of sexual affairs with two uncles surrounded Eleanor, first with Raymond of Poitiers, Prince of Antioch, and brother of Eleanor’s father; and later with Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou, and father of Eleanor’s second husband.

Alysanne married her older brother Jaehaerys Targaryen.  When Alysanne was pregnant for the first time, she suffered an attempt of murder at Maidenpool, perpetuated by three women, followers of the Faith of the Seven that reject incest:

“Doctrine of Exceptionalism had won over most of the pious in the realm, but not all. Some of the women who tended Jonquil's Pool believed that the pool's sacred waters would become polluted if the queen, pregnant with the king's "abomination", were to enter the waters. While she was inside, Alysanne was attacked by three of these women with daggers.” 

[Source]

Sansa Stark was not directly involved with incest.  As it was mentioned before, the first Sansa Stark married her half uncle Lord Jonnel Stark.  Sansa’s paternal grandparents were cousins: Lord Rickard and Lady Lyarra Stark.  

Sansa also have two cousins, Robert Arryn and Jon Snow, which are subtly and not so subtly linked with her with romantic undertones:

Robert Arryn was named after Robert Baratheon and Jon Snow is the secret son of Rhaegar Targaryen.  Robert and Rhaegar fought to death for the love of a Stark girl, Lyanna, the mother of Jon.

Robert Arryn and Jon Snow are surrounded by bird imagery. Robert with Falcons (Arryn sigil) and Robins (Sweetrobin), also with Winged Knights; and Jon with Crows (Night’s Watch/Black Knights) and dragons (winged creatures).

Robert Arryn idolizes Artys Arryn, The Falconknight (usually mixed with the Winged Knight); and Jon Snow idolizes Aemon Targaryen, The Dragonknight.

Sansa thinks about Jon in the Wall and recalled that in the songs the men of the Night’s Watch are called the Black Knights of the Wall.

Alayne is organizing a Tourney to elect the members of Robert Arryn personal guard, named the Brotherhood of the Winged Knights.  

Robert Arryn and Jon Snow are surrounded by weirwood imagery.  Robert and his weirwood throne and Jon with the Old Gods (literally weirwoods) and Ghost (weirwood’s coloring).

Robert Arryn and Jon Snow are the last males of their respective paternal houses. And both of them will face blonde threats to their claims.

Lysa Arryn intended to betroth Sansa with her son Robert Arryn.

Robert Arryn is infatuated with Alayne Stone (Sansa Stark in disguise) and constantly expressed his desire to marry her.  Alayne rejects him every time alleging her bastard status.

Sansa modeled her bastard persona on her bastard half-brother (cousin) Jon Snow. And she is acting as a foster mother for her cousin Robert Arryn.

Sansa’s first crush was a young knight of the Vale of Arryn, Waymar Royce, whose physical features are pretty similar to Jon Snow’s (grey eyes, brown hair, slender bodies, also both Brothers of the Night’s Watch).

The Pact of Ice and Fire could be fulfilled with the marriage of two cousins with Stark Blood. Like Jon and Sansa.

The original outline planned a romance between two cousins with Stark Blood. Like Jon and Sansa (Originally Arya, discarded by GRRM at Balticon 2016).

SECOND MARRIAGE

Eleanor became Queen consort of England due to her second marriage to his cousin Henry Plantagenet, Count of Anjou and Duke of Normandy.

This marriage with the future Henry II of England was way more fruitful than Eleanor’s first marriage.  The couple had 8 children, five sons and three daughters.

As Eleanor travelled to Poitiers, two lords —Theobald V, Count of Blois, and Geoffrey, Count of Nantes, brother of Henry II, Duke of Normandy —tried to kidnap and marry her to claim her lands. As soon as she arrived in Poitiers, Eleanor sent envoys to Henry, Duke of Normandy and future king of England, asking him to come at once to marry her. On 18 May 1152 (Whit Sunday), eight weeks after her annulment, Eleanor married Henry "without the pomp and ceremony that befitted their rank."

Eleanor was related to Henry even more closely than she had been to Louis: they were cousins to the third degree through their common ancestor Ermengarde of Anjou, wife of Robert I, Duke of Burgundy and Geoffrey, Count of Gâtinais, and they were also descended from King Robert II of France. A marriage between Henry and Eleanor's daughter Marie had earlier been declared impossible due to their status as third cousins once removed. 

—Wikipedia

Duchess Eleanor was only 28, and it did not take long for suitors to begin to pursue her—for her lands and her mind. Theobald V of Blois, six years Eleanor’s junior, tried to kidnap her (he would later marry her daughter, Alice). Eleanor had her eye on a different suitor. From her court at Poitiers, she sent for him in secret. His name was Henry Plantagenet, Duke of Normandy and Count of Anjou. (…)

Less than three months after her divorce from Louis, Eleanor married Henry Plantagenet, nine years her junior, on May 18, 1152. Genealogy shows that the pair were more closely related than Eleanor and Louis, but that did not stand in the way of the union. Henry and Eleanor were masters of Normandy, Anjou, Maine, Touraine, and the Aquitaine, and serious rivals to Louis.  

In 1153 Henry crossed the English Channel and was able to secure his position on the throne from the sitting king of England. By the time he and Eleanor were coronated in December 1154, she had already given birth to their first son, William, in August 1153—and was pregnant with their second child. In one bold stroke, the lands of Normandy, Aquitaine, Anjou, and other important French territories came under the control of the English king and queen. Eleanor’s children, as well as her lands, gave her much security. 

—National Geographic

Within two months of her annulment, after fighting off attempts to marry her off to various other high-ranking French noblemen, Eleanor married Henry, Count of Anjou and Duke of Normandy. She had been rumored to have had an affair with her new husband’s father, and was more closely related to her new husband than she had been to Louis, but the marriage went ahead and within two years Henry and Eleanor were crowned king and queen of England after Henry’s accession to the English throne upon the death of King Stephen.

Eleanor’s marriage to Henry was more successful than her first, although not lacking in drama and discord. Henry and Eleanor argued often, but they produced eight children together between 1152 and 1166. The extent of Eleanor’s role in Henry’s rule is largely unknown, although it seems unlikely that a woman of her reputed energy and education would have been wholly without influence. Nonetheless, she does not emerge again into a publicly active role until separating from Henry in 1167 and moving her household to her own lands in Poitiers. While the reasons for the breakdown of her marriage to Henry remain unclear, it can likely be traced to Henry’s increasingly visible infidelities. 

—History

Two months later she married the grandson of Henry I of England, Henry Plantagenet, Count of Anjou and Duke of Normandy. In 1154 he became, as Henry II, king of England, with the result that England, Normandy, and the west of France were united under his rule. Eleanor had only two daughters by Louis VII, but to her new husband she bore five sons and three daughters. The sons were William, who died at the age of three; Henry; Richard, the Lion-Heart; Geoffrey, duke of Brittany; and John, surnamed Lackland until, having outlived all his brothers, he inherited, in 1199, the crown of England. The daughters were Matilda, who married Henry the Lion, duke of Saxony and Bavaria; Eleanor, who married Alfonso VIII, king of Castile; and Joan, who married successively William II, king of Sicily, and Raymond VI, count of Toulouse. Eleanor would well have deserved to be named the “grandmother of Europe.”  

—Britannica

Take note that even as a “divorced” woman, Eleanor still was the most eligible heiress in Europe, and suffered various attempts to kidnap as a way to marry her.  This kidnap/marriage attempts against Eleanor reminds me of the Wildling beyond the Wall marriage customs.  

The period that started with Alysanne’s second wedding to her older brother Jaehaerys was very similar to Eleanor’s second marriage with Henry II of England:

Henry was in conflict with his uncle Stephen of Blois for the Throne of England.  Jaehaerys was in conflict with his uncle Maegor I for the Iron Throne.  

Henry and Eleanor had 8 children. Jaehaerys and Alysanne had 13 children.

Henry often traveled to different parts of his realm, and while he was away, Eleanor assumed the role of regent and other political duties.  Alysanne’s relationship with Jaehaerys was always very close. She was his most trusted counselor and his right hand: Alysanne remained in the Red Keep, presiding over council meetings in the king’s absence, and holding audience from a velvet seat at the base of the Iron Throne. —Fire & Blood

Eleanor outlived most of her children.  Alysanne outlived most of her children.

Eleanor arranged marriages for her children and grandchildren.  Alysanne arranged marriages for her children, especially her daughters.

Henry was an unfaithful husband. Jaehaerys was not unfaithful but he was very sexist and constantly wronged her daughters, granddaughter and children from his granddaughter in favor of his male children and grandchildren.  

Henry and Eleanor got estranged with time and lived separated for long periods after their quarrels. Jaehareys and Alysanne got estranged with the time and lived separated for long periods after their quarrels.

Eleanor supported her sons’ rebellions against her husband Henry II, and got imprisoned for it.  She would remain a prisoner until Henry II’s death in 1189. Jaehaerys and Alysanne’s quarrels happened mostly because their different views on matters of succession and the sexist and severe treatment that Jaehaerys gave to her daughters.

Eleanor died around age 80; she outlived Henry.  Alysanne died at 64, leaving Jaehaerys a widower.

Sansa Stark has not married a second time yet.  She is betrothed, as Alayne Stone, to Harrold Hardyng, often called Harry the Heir, cousin and heir presumptive of Lord Robert Arryn and would ascend to rule of the Vale as "Harrold Arryn" should Lord Robert die without issue.

Sansa Stark is not a mother yet neither.  But GRRM has planted seeds about her fertility and future motherhood, as I earlier speculated in this post. There I talked about Alayne’s location: “The Vale of Arryn was famously fertile and had gone untouched during the fighting”;  and Sansa being a half-Tully girl. Tully members are famously fertile; Cat, Lysa and Edmure manage to conceive at the first attempt with Ned, Petyr and Roslin.

CONTRIBUTIONS

Some of Eleanor’s greatest contributions were:

Eleanor of Aquitaine is said to be responsible for the introduction of built-in fireplaces, first used when she renovated the palace of her first husband Louis in Paris. Shocked by the frigid north after her upbringing in southern France, Eleanor’s innovation spread quickly, transforming the domestic arrangements of the time. 

—Britannica

While in the eastern Mediterranean, Eleanor learned about maritime conventions developing there, which were the beginnings of what would become admiralty law. She introduced those conventions in her own lands on the island of Oléron in 1160 (with the "Rolls of Oléron") and later in England as well. She was also instrumental in developing trade agreements with Constantinople and ports of trade in the Holy Lands.

—Wikipedia

Eleanor was also an excellent diplomat envoy and a magnificent patron of arts, as it will be explained later.

Some of Alysanne’s contributions to the politics and the welfare of the people of Westeros were:  

She helped Jaehaerys to create Westeros’ first unified code of laws.

Alysanne procured clean water for the people of Kingslanding: Queen Alysanne served each of them a tankard of river water at the next council meeting, and dared them to drink of it. The water went undrunk, but the wells and pipes were soon approved. Construction would require more than a dozen years, but in the end “the queen’s fountains” provided clean water for Kingslanders for many generations to come. —Fire & BloodQueen

Alysanne proposed a “New Gift” for the Night’s Watch: The notion did not please Lord Alaric; though a strong friend to the Night’s Watch, he knew that the lords who presently held the lands in question would object to them being given away without their leave. “I have no doubt that you can persuade them, Lord Alaric,” the queen said. And finally, charmed by her as ever, Alaric Stark agreed that, aye, he could. And so it came to pass that the size of the Gift was doubled with a stroke. —Fire & Blood

Alysanne aprocured the promulgation of the Widow’s Law: To rectify these ills, King Jaehaerys in 52 AC promulgated the Widow’s Law, reaffirming the right of the eldest son (or eldest daughter, where there was no son) to inherit, but requiring said heirs to maintain surviving widows in the same condition they had enjoyed before their husband’s death. A lord’s widow, be she a second, third, or later wife, could no longer be driven from his castle, nor deprived of her servants, clothing, and income. The same law, however, also forbade men from disinheriting their children by a first wife in order to bestow their lands, seat, or property upon a later wife or her own children. —Fire & Blood

Alysanne also procured the abolition of the lord’s ancient right to the first night: And so it came to pass that the second of what the smallfolk named Queen Alysanne’s Laws was enacted: the abolition of the lord’s ancient right to the first night. Henceforth, it was decreed, a bride’s maidenhead would belong only to her husband, whether joined before a septon or a heart tree, and any man, be he lord or peasant, who took her on her wedding night or any other night would be guilty of the crime of rape. —Fire & Blood

Sansa is not in a Queen position yet, but the possibilities for her ending the books as a monarch are big. We have books evidence and foreshadowing here and here. We also have the Sansa’s TV adaptation endgame as Queen in the North to support this hypothesis, and GRRM counting Sansa as a major character and also saying the endgame for the major characters would be the same in the Books.

Sansa was already betrothed with the heir to the Iron Throne once, but Joffrey Baratheon was a bastard disguised as a prince; so every time I remember that GRRM wrote a passage when someone called the Red Comet a sign of glory for Sansa’s betrothed, the dragon’s heir, I can’t stop thinking about Sansa being betrothed to the true dragon’s heir, and that that person is a prince disguised as a bastard.    

But let’s talk about how good Sansa could be as a Queen.  Tyrion Lannister, always praised by GRRM himself for his wits, has something to tell us about the matter:  

Tyrion led Sansa around the yard, to perform the necessary courtesies. She is good at this, he thought, as he watched her tell Lord Gyles that his cough was sounding better, compliment Elinor Tyrell on her gown, and question Jalabhar Xho about wedding customs in the Summer Isles. His cousin Ser Lancel had been brought down by Ser Kevan, the first time he’d left his sickbed since the battle. He looks ghastly. Lancel’s hair had turned white and brittle, and he was thin as a stick. Without his father beside him holding him up, he would surely have collapsed. Yet when Sansa praised his valor and said how good it was to see him getting strong again, both Lancel and Ser Kevan beamed. She would have made Joffrey a good queen and a better wife if he’d had the sense to love her. He wondered if his nephew was capable of loving anyone.

—A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII

Despite the popular belief, Sansa Stark actually thinks about the welfare of the smallfolk:

Halfway along the route, a wailing woman forced her way between two watchmen and ran out into the street in front of the king and his companions, holding the corpse of her dead baby above her head. It was blue and swollen, grotesque, but the real horror was the mother’s eyes. Joffrey looked for a moment as if he meant to ride her down, but Sansa Stark leaned over and said something to him. The king fumbled in his purse, and flung the woman a silver stag. The coin bounced off the child and rolled away, under the legs of the gold cloaks and into the crowd, where a dozen men began to fight for it. The mother never once blinked. Her skinny arms were trembling from the dead weight of her son. (…)

From both sides of the street, the crowd surged against the spear shafts while the gold cloaks struggled to hold the line. Stones and dung and fouler things whistled overhead. “Feed us!” a woman shrieked. “Bread!” boomed a man behind her. “We want bread, bastard!” (…)

Tyrion called to her. “Are you hurt, Lady Sansa?” Blood was trickling down Sansa’s brow from a deep gash on her scalp. “They … they were throwing things … rocks and filth, eggs … I tried to tell them, I had no bread to give them”. 

—A Clash of Kings - Tyrion IX

In the Show they translated this Sansa’s line of dialogue to this one: “I would have given them bread if I had it.”  

But I think the most telling evidence of how good Sansa could be as a queen is this one:

“The night’s first traitors,” the queen said, “but not the last, I fear. Have Ser Ilyn see to them, and put their heads on pikes outside the stables as a warning.” As they left, she turned to Sansa. “Another lesson you should learn, if you hope to sit beside my son. Be gentle on a night like this and you’ll have treasons popping up all about you like mushrooms after a hard rain. The only way to keep your people loyal is to make certain they fear you more than they do the enemy.”

“I will remember, Your Grace,” said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people’s loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I’ll make them love me.

—A Clash of Kings - Sansa VI

This is a stark contrast (pun intended) between ruling by fear and violence and ruling by kindness and protection.  And we all know that Sansa’s true nature will lead her to choose love over fear.  

WIDOWHOOD, REGENCY AND DEATH

When Eleanor became a widow, she not only regained her freedom after 16 years of imprisonment, she also got independency and power over England. She acted as regent in the absent of her son, King Richard I, she also acted as diplomat envoy for England and remained a huge influence in the political scene of Europe:

Upon the death of her husband Henry II on 6 July 1189, Richard I was the undisputed heir. One of his first acts as king was to send William Marshal to England with orders to release Eleanor from prison; he found upon his arrival that her custodians had already released her. Eleanor rode to Westminster and received the oaths of fealty from many lords and prelates on behalf of the king. She ruled England in Richard's name, signing herself "Eleanor, by the grace of God, Queen of England." On 13 August 1189, Richard sailed from Barfleur to Portsmouth and was received with enthusiasm. Between 1190 and 1194, Richard was absent from England, engaged in the Third Crusade from 1190 to 1192 and then held in captivity by Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor. During Richard's absence, royal authority in England was represented by a Council of Regency in conjunction with a succession of chief justiciars – William de Longchamp (1190–1191), Walter de Coutances (1191–1193), and finally Hubert Walter. Although Eleanor held no formal office in England during this period, she arrived in England in the company of Coutances in June 1191, and for the remainder of Richard's absence, she exercised a considerable degree of influence over the affairs of England as well as the conduct of Prince John. Eleanor played a key role in raising the ransom demanded from England by Henry VI and in the negotiations with the Holy Roman Emperor that eventually secured Richard's release.  

—Wikipedia

After Henry’s death in July 1189, Richard the Lion-Hearted became king, and Eleanor gained her complete freedom. Her son restored her lands that had been seized after the 1173 rebellion. Richard appointed her to a government position, and Eleanor traveled the English countryside securing loyalty oaths to her son and his kingdom.

Even in her late 60s, Eleanor continued to follow and often direct the political events of her lands. In 1191 she arranged a marriage for Richard to Berengaria of Navarre. While Richard was crusading in the Holy Land, Eleanor wielded influence over the men ruling in Richard’s absence, including his younger brother, Prince John. Moreover, accused of having ordered the murder of Conrad of Montferrat in the Holy Land, Richard was imprisoned by Holy Roman Emperor Henry VI. Eleanor turned to the pope, Celestine III, to help arrange her son’s release and also secured funds for his ransom.

In her 70s, Eleanor sought to strengthen the bonds between the Plantagenets and the Capets. In 1200 she traveled to the Pyrenees to escort her granddaughter Blanche to marry the son of the French king in a continuing effort to maintain the power of her family.

—National Geographic

On her release, Eleanor played a greater political role than ever before. She actively prepared for Richard’s coronation as king, was administrator of the realm during his Crusade to the Holy Land, and, after his capture by the duke of Austria on Richard’s return from the east, collected his ransom and went in person to escort him to England. During Richard’s absence, she succeeded in keeping his kingdom intact and in thwarting the intrigues of his brother John Lackland and Philip II Augustus, king of France, against him.

In 1199 Richard died without leaving an heir to the throne, and John was crowned king. Eleanor, nearly 80 years old, fearing the disintegration of the Plantagenet domain, crossed the Pyrenees in 1200 in order to fetch her granddaughter Blanche from the court of Castile and marry her to the son of the French king. By this marriage she hoped to ensure peace between the Plantagenets of England and the Capetian kings of France. In the same year she helped to defend Anjou and Aquitaine against her grandson Arthur of Brittany, thus securing John’s French possessions. In 1202 John was again in her debt for holding Mirebeau against Arthur, until John, coming to her relief, was able to take him prisoner. John’s only victories on the Continent, therefore, were due to Eleanor.

She died in 1204 at the monastery at Fontevrault, Anjou, where she had retired after the campaign at Mirebeau. Her contribution to England extended beyond her own lifetime; after the loss of Normandy (1204), it was her own ancestral lands and not the old Norman territories that remained loyal to England. 

—Britannica

Henry II died in July 1189 and their son Richard succeeded him; one of his first acts was to free his mother from prison and restore her to full freedom. Eleanor ruled as regent in Richard’s name while he took over for his father in leading the Third Crusade, which had barely begun when Henry II died. On the conclusion of the crusade, Richard (known as Richard the Lionheart) returned to England and ruled until his death in 1199. Eleanor lived to see her youngest son, John, crowned king after Richard’s death, and was employed by John as an envoy to France. She would later support John’s rule against the rebellion of her grandson Arthur, and eventually retire as a nun to the abbey at Fontevraud, where she was buried upon her death in 1204. 

—History

Alysanne died before Jaehaerys, but, as it was said before, during their life together she helped him to codified the laws of Westeros, she procured the promulgation of important laws in favor of women rights and gave fresh water to the people of Kings landing.

Alysanne also acted as Jaehaerys representative in an important royal progress through the north, charming all the northern houses, specially the warden of the north, Lord Alaric Stark, and the men of the Night’s Watch, procuring the “New Gift” for them.

Alysanne, in open disagreement with her husband, was in favor of her daughter Daenerys and her granddaughter Rhaenys to be Jaehaerys’ heir to the Iron Throne, following the order of birth, not their sex.  

Again, Sansa is not in a Queen position yet, but she has the education and charms to become a great monarch. Her knowledge of history, heraldry and courtesies would also make her a great diplomat and negotiator.    

THE COURT OF LOVE

And we finally arrived to the section that will make you realize how much of Eleanor we can find in Sansa. After reading this part of Eleanor's story, I decided to write this post as a continuation of my Alysanne/Sansa post. And after doing some more research on GRRM's words on how much Eleanor has influenced their ASOIAF women, I think I made a good decision.

Eleanor was born in the South of France, in a court that was exactly like the Southern courts that Sansa read in her beloved songs and that she wished to live in:  

Their ducal court had a fine reputation as a patron of the arts. Eleanor’s grandfather, William IX, was known as the “troubadour duke,” famous for his poetry and songs about heroism and courtly love. Poets of the time, especially the famous Marcabru, found hospitality at the court of Aquitaine. 

—National Geographic

Now, lets read one of my favorite Sansa’s passages, one that tell us about her innocent dreams and wishes for a young and handsome singer that would make the walls of Winterfell alive with romantic music:

Once, when she was just a little girl, a wandering singer had stayed with them at Winterfell for half a year. An old man he was, with white hair and windburnt cheeks, but he sang of knights and quests and ladies fair, and Sansa had cried bitter tears when he left them, and begged her father not to let him go. "The man has played us every song he knows thrice over," Lord Eddard told her gently. "I cannot keep him here against his will. You need not weep, though. I promise you, other singers will come."

They hadn't, though, not for a year or more. Sansa had prayed to the Seven in their sept and old gods of the heart tree, asking them to bring the old man back, or better still to send another singer, young and handsome. But the gods never answered, and the halls of Winterfell stayed silent.

But that was when she was a little girl, and foolish. She was a maiden now, three-and-ten and flowered. All her nights were full of song, and by day she prayed for silence.

—A Feast for Crows - Sansa I

Somehow, Eleanor’s story is in reverse, because when she married Louis VII of France and moved to Paris, in the North, she found her new home staid and cold:    

Possessing a high-spirited nature, Eleanor was not popular with the staid northerners. […] Much money went into making the austere Cité Palace in Paris more comfortable for Eleanor's sake.

—Wikipedia

Within weeks of her wedding, Eleanor found herself taking possession of the drafty and unwelcoming Cîté Palace in Paris that would be her new home.

—History

By many accounts, Eleanor was a bright and vivacious woman. Life at the Capetian court did not entirely meet the expectations and tastes of the young bride who was used to the court of Aquitaine’s embrace of troubadour poetry, sophistication, extravagance, and a greater freedom of manners. The Parisian court and northern France were more reserved. 

—National Geographic

Years later, when Eleanor was Queen of England, she decided to return to her own lands and stablished her own court in Poitiers, when she became a magnificent patron of arts:

In The Art of Courtly Love, Andreas Capellanus, Andrew the chaplain, refers to the court of Poitiers. He claims that Eleanor, her daughter Marie, Ermengarde, Viscountess of Narbonne, and Isabelle of Flanders would sit and listen to the quarrels of lovers and act as a jury to the questions of the court that revolved around acts of romantic love. He records some twenty-one cases, the most famous of them being a problem posed to the women about whether true love can exist in marriage. According to Capellanus, the women decided that it was not at all likely. 

—Wikipedia

In this marriage, Eleanor was also able to become a patron of the arts, and at least four writers dedicated their work to her. She famously established the so-called Court of Love at Poitiers between 1168 and 1173. Along with her daughter Marie (from her first marriage), popular accounts describe Eleanor’s court as a flowering of culture where music, poetry, and chivalry took center stage. 

—National Geographic

During her childbearing years, she participated actively in the administration of the realm and even more actively in the management of her own domains. She was instrumental in turning the court of Poitiers, then frequented by the most famous troubadours of the time, into a centre of poetry and a model of courtly life and manners. She was the great patron of the two dominant poetic movements of the time: the courtly love tradition, conveyed in the romantic songs of the troubadours, and the historical matière de Bretagne, or “legends of Brittany,” which originated in Celtic traditions and in the Historia regum Britanniae, written by the chronicler Geoffrey of Monmouth sometime between 1135 and 1138. 

—Britannica

Eleanor’s time as mistress of her own lands in Poitiers (1168-1173) established the legend of the Court of Love, where she is reputed to have encouraged a culture of chivalry among her courtiers that had far-reaching influence on literature, poetry, music and folklore. Although some facts about the court remain in dispute amidst centuries of accumulated legend and myth, it seems that Eleanor, possibly accompanied by her daughter Marie, established a court that was largely focused on courtly love and symbolic ritual that was eagerly taken up by the troubadours and writers of the day and promulgated through poetry and song. This court was reported to have attracted artists and poets, and to have contributed to a flowering of culture and the arts. But to whatever extent such a court existed, it appears not to have survived Eleanor’s later capture and imprisonment, which effectively removed her from any position of power and influence for the next 16 years. 

—History

Now, after reading about Eleanor’s Court of Love, tell if she doesn’t sound exactly like Sansa?  And this give me hope about Sansa, once in a position of power and in her own lands, establishing a similar court full of poets and singers to promote chivalry and courtly love, just like in her little girl’s dreams and wishes.

Another customs from the Middle Ages that GRRM introduced in the Books, in line with themes of chivalry courtly love, are the jousting tourneys and the title for the queen of love and beauty.  The subject was discussed in this post:

That being said, what they did have in the twelfth century was the idea of the Court of Love, which developed under the aegis of one of my personal favourite medieval figures, Eleanor of Aquitaine, first queen of France, and then queen of England. Eleanor was the daughter and heiress of the duke of Aquitaine, whose court was known as a centre of arts and culture, particularly music and poetry. When she was in charge, she patronized many poets, musicians, and artists, and they of course reciprocated by referring to her as the queen of love. Her daughter, Marie, Countess of Champagne, followed suit, and is best known for having commissioned Chrétien de Troyes to write a romance about Queen Guinevere and thereby introducing the world to Sir Lancelot of the Lake.

—poorshadowspaintedqueens

Eleanor being called the queen of love and beauty by poets and musicians gives me hope about Sansa being crowned queen of love and beauty sometime in the Books. 

Alysanne also favored arts and introduced them again in the Red Keep:

Queen Alysanne looked back on the short-lived glories of her father’s court fondly, however, and made it her purpose to make the Red Keep glitter as it never had before, buying tapestries and carpets from Free Cities and commissioning murals, statuary, and tilework to decorate the castle’s halls and chambers. At her command, men from the City Watch combed Flea Bottom until they found Tom the Strummer, whose mocking songs had amused king and commons alike during the War for the White Cloaks. Alysanne made him the court singer, the first of many who would hold that office in the decades to come. She brought in a harpist from Oldtown, a company of mummers from Braavos, dancers from Lys, and gave the Red Keep its first fool, a fat man called the Goodwife who dressed as a woman and was never seen without his wooden “children,” a pair of cleverly carved puppets who said ribald, shocking things.

—Fire & Blood

But I think that GRRM took inspiration from Eleanor’s Court of Love to create Alysanne’s Women Courts:

Since holding the first of her women's courts during the first royal progress Alysanne and Jaehaerys made, the women's courts became an important part of every subsequent royal progress. Only women and girls were allowed to join Alysanne during these courts, regardless of their status of birth. Alysanne encouraged them to speak freely and openly about their fears, concerns, and hopes.

The first of Alysanne's women's courts was held in 51 AC at the town of Duskendale, when King Jaehaerys I Targaryen and Queen Alysanne made their first royal progress. In 52 AC, during Jaehaerys's second royal progress, Alysanne held a women's court at Gulltown, and another at the Gates of the Moon. The things she heard from the women during these two women's courts resulted in her plea to Jaehaerys to protect the widows of the Seven Kingdoms from being cast aside by the children of their late husbands from earlier marriages. In response, Jaehaerys promulgated the Widow's Law.

In 53 AC, when Alysanne was unwilling to join Jaehaerys on his royal progress due to her pregnancy, Lady Jennis Templeton accompanied the king's retinue in order to hold women's courts at Riverrun and Stoney Sept.

In 58 AC while visiting the North, Alysanne held a women's court at White Harbour, where more than two hundred women and girls came before her. When she eventually arrived at the Wall to visit the Night's Watch, she held a women's court in a brothel at Mole's Town. Following their return to King's Landing, Alysanne brought to Jaehaerys's attention the stories she had heard in her women's court at Mole's Town, concerning the right to the first night. As a result, Jaehaerys abolished the lord's right to the first night. These policies, influenced by Alysanne, came to be called Queen Alysanne's laws by the smallfolk. 

[Source]

As you can see, these women’s meeting with Alysanne resulted in the promulgation of laws to protect women’s rights against sexual abuse and domestic violence.  And let’s also remember that Alysanne, in open disagreement with her husband, was in favor of her daughter Daenerys and her granddaughter Rhaenys to be Jaehaerys’ heir to the Iron Throne, following the order of birth, not their sex.  

The most prominent dissenter was Good Queen Alysanne, who had helped her husband rule the Seven Kingdoms for many years, and now saw her son’s daughter being passed over because of her sex. “A ruler needs a good head and a true heart,” she famously told the king. “A cock is not essential. If Your Grace truly believes that women lack the wit to rule, plainly you have no further need of me.” 

—Fire & Blood

Now tell if this not sound pretty similar to:

The only way to keep your people loyal is to make certain they fear you more than they do the enemy.”

“I will remember, Your Grace,” said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people’s loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I’ll make them love me.

—A Clash of Kings - Sansa VI

Sansa Stark is Good Queen material. Tyrion Lannister And GRRM agrees.

Queen Alysanne was also fond of singers and gallant knights:

Three of the brothers had been singers before taking the black, and they took turns playing for Her Grace at night, regaling her with ballads, war songs, and bawdy barracks tunes. 

—Fire & Blood

Though his castle was small and modest compared to the great halls of the realm, Lord Dondarrion was a splendid host and his son Simon played the high harp as well as he jousted, and entertained the royal couple by night with sad songs of star-crossed lovers and the fall of kings. So taken with him was the queen that the party lingered longer at Blackhaven than they had intended.

—Fire & Blood

One of the Knights of Legends that Sansa idolizes, Ser Ryam Redwyne, crowned Queen Alysanne as the queen of love and beauty:

On the field, the highlight of the competition was the brilliance of Ser Ryam Redwyne, the youngest son of Lord Manfryd Redwyne of the Arbor, Jaehaerys’s lord admiral and master of ships. In successive tilts, Ser Ryam unhorsed Ronnal Baratheon, Arthor Oakheart, Simon Dondarrion, Harys Hogg (Harry the Ham, to the commons), and two Kingsguard knights, Lorence Roxton and Lucamore Strong. When the young gallant trotted up to the royal box and crowned Good Queen Alysanne as his queen of love and beauty, the commons roared their approval.

—Fire & Blood

Back to Sansa, let’s read one of my favorite pieces from last year, written a month before the Show final episode, an interview to GRRM to talk exclusively about the Stark Sisters, Arya and Sansa Stark:

I wanted to read you one of the earliest passages that you wrote about the two of them, if that’s okay.

Sure.

“It wasn’t fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother’s fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn.”

So what was the glimmer of an idea for these two sisters?

Well you’re taking me back a long, long way. That’s a pretty early chapter …  I first began in 1991. I wrote about a hundred pages of it before I got distracted by Hollywood stuff, and then I put it aside for like two years before I got back to it. Those words you read were actually part of the first hundred pages that I was doing there. When I was writing these, and I was creating a family for Lord Eddard Stark … I knew I wanted it to be a fairly large family, with a number of children. I suppose I cheated a little by not having three children who died in infancy in there, which was true of the actual Middle Ages. They had a terrible time with kids who died very young.

So I created Bran and in the very first chapter, I wrote where they find the direwolf pups in the snow. Bran is the viewpoint chapter there, and Robb and Jon and Theon are all with him, they’re the boys who rode out with their father to see the man beheaded. The fact that the boys went out was a reflection of what a patriarchal society it was, as medieval societies often were. I was following history in that regard … But I wanted some girls, too.

And when I actually got to Winterfell in the later chapter, I knew I wanted to deal with the role that women and young girls had in this kind of society. So to show the contrast, [we] have two sisters who were very, very different from each other. The Middle Ages was very patriarchal. I’m a little weary of over-generalizing, since that makes me seem like an idiot — but generally, women didn’t have a lot of rights. They were used to make marriage-alliances; I’m talking high-born women now, of course. Peasant women had even less rights. But I was focusing on a noble family here as the center of the book.

At the same time, this is also the era where courtly romance was born: the gallant Knight, the fair lady, the princess, all of that stuff. That became very big, initially in the courts of France and Burgundy, but it spread all over Europe, including England and Germany.  And it still has its roots in a lot of stuff that we follow today. I mean, in some sense the Disney Princess archetype — the whole princess mythos — that we’re all familiar with is a legacy of the troubadours of the romance era of medieval France.

Sansa completely bought into that, loved everything about that. She dreamed of jousts, bards singing of her beauty, fair knights, being the mistress of a castle and perhaps a princess and queen. The whole romantic thing.

And then to have Arya, a girl who did not fit that — and who, from the very beginning, was uncomfortable and chafes at the roles that she was being pushed into. You know, who didn’t wanna sew but wanted to fight with a sword, who liked riding and hunting and wrestling in the mud. A “tomboy” we would call it, I guess. But that phrase, of course, didn’t exist in the Middle Ages, so I don’t think I ever use it in the books, but you know what I mean. So that was the roots to create these two characters who were very different from each other, and who then necessarily chafed against each other in the context of the books.

—GRRM - RollingStone - 2019

Do I need to tell more? It seems to me very obvious that GRRM has translated Eleanor’s Court of Love into Sansa’s love for songs and stories, courtesies and profound beliefs on chivalry and courtly love:

Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteous and eager to please. She loved nothing so well as tales of knightly valor. 

—A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

Sansa Stark, he mused. Soft-spoken sweet-smelling Sansa, who loved silks, songs, chivalry and tall gallant knights with handsome faces. 

—A Storm of Swords - Tyrion III

Also, take note that Sansa loves her courtesies, they are her armor.

But there is more to say about Eleanor of Aquitaine and her influence in the creation of ASOIAF women, especially women profoundly linked and similar to Sansa Stark. Let’s see:

While promoting Fire & Blood, GRRM told us this about Eleanor of Aquitaine:

Question: A lot of your female characters are very empowered and motivated, which other fictional or historical female characters did you drawn inspiration from, if any?    

GRRM: Ahhh, well, there was a lot of them, Eleanor of Aquitaine of course was a major one, she was one of the most kick-ass women of the Middle Ages and, you know, she had her own crusade, or she went on crusade rather and she married two kings and then was the mother of several more, she was a great character. There’s also a lot of the... If you read the Italian History, a lot of the... During the Italian Middle Ages and Renaissance period, there were a lot of very powerful and bloody women who controlled various city-states in Italy, and did some amazing things.     

—In conversation: George R.R. Martin with Dan Jones FULL EVENT

We already know that Alysanne was called by GRRM, the “Eleanor of Aquitaine of Westeros”:

Alysanne was the queen, consort, and sister of King Jaehaerys I, the Old King, and like him she lived a long life. Since you pictured him as an old man at the end of his reign, I figure it would be most appropriate to do her the same way, rather than as the young woman she was when Jaehaerys first ascended the Iron Throne.

You might consider Alysanne as the Eleanor of Aquitaine of Westeros, and model her on Katharine Hepburn’s portrayal of Eleanor in the film THE LION IN WINTER. Tall and straight, unbowed by time, she had high cheekbones, clear blue eyes. Age left crow’s feet around her eyes and laugh lines about her mouth, but her face never lost its strength. She was a fine archer and hunter in her youth, and loved to fly atop her dragon to all the distant parts of the realm. Alysanne was slim of waist and small of breast, with a long neck, a fair complexion, a high forehead. In old age her hair turned white as snow. She wore it in a bun, pulled back and pinned behind her hear.

Her relationship with King Jaehaerys was always very close. She was his most trusted counselor and his right hand, and often wore a slimmer, more feminine version of his crown at court. Beloved by the common people of Westeros, she loved them in return, and was renowned for her charities. [Source] 

But Alysanne is not the only woman linked and similar to Sansa that was modeled from Eleanor.  GRRM has also said that he took inspiration from Eleanor of Aquitaine to create Catelyn Stark and Brienne of Tarth:  

Interviewer: One of the strongest female characters is Catelyn Stark, in my point of view.

GRRM: Well, I wanted to make a strong mother character. The portrayal women in epic fantasy have been problematical for a long time. These books are largely written by men but women also read them in great, great numbers. And the women in fantasy tend to be very atypical women… They tend to be the woman warrior or the spunky princess who wouldn’t accept what her father lays down, and I have those archetypes in my books as well.

However, with Catelyn there is something reset for the Eleanor of Aquitaine, the figure of the woman who accepted her role and functions with a narrow society and, nonetheless, achieves considerable influence and power and authority despite accepting the risks and limitations of this society. She is also a mother… Then, a tendency you can see in a lot of other fantasies is to kill the mother or to get her off the stage. She’s usually dead before the story opens… Nobody wants to hear about King Arthur’s mother and what she thought or what she was doing, so they get her off the stage and I wanted it too. And that’s Catelyn.

—Adrias News - 2012

So Catelyn Stark is “the figure of the woman who accepted her role and functions with a narrow society and, nonetheless, achieves considerable influence and power and authority despite accepting the risks and limitations of this society”.

Catelyn Stark, Sansa’s lady mother and role model, the symbol of strength she turned to when she pleaded for her father's life:

Sansa quailed. Now, she told herself, I must do it now. Gods give me courage. She took one step, then another. Lords and knights stepped aside silently to let her pass, and she felt the weight of their eyes on her. I must be as strong as my lady mother. "Your Grace," she called out in a soft, tremulous voice.

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa V    

Catelyn Stark, the woman whose name Sansa wanted to take as her new identity:

What should you be called?" "I . . . I could call myself after my mother . . ." "Catelyn? A bit too obvious . . . but after my mother, that would serve. Alayne. Do you like it?" "Alayne is pretty." Sansa hoped she would remember. 

—A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

Catelyn Stark, the mother that Sansa didn’t forget and that reminds inside her to preserve her true identity:

I am not your daughter, she thought. I am Sansa Stark, Lord Eddard's daughter and Lady Catelyn's, the blood of Winterfell. 

—A Feast for Crows - Sansa I

That Catelyn Stark is the kind of woman that Sansa Stark will become and surpass in the future. To quote GRRM: “one of the most kick-ass women of the Middle Ages Westeros”.

Here you can read more about Catelyn Stark and Eleanor of Aquitaine parallels.

And this is what GRRM said about who inspired Brienne of Tarth:

“I enjoyed Xena the Warrior Princess a lot but I did not think it was an accurate portrayal of what a women warrior was or would be like, and I sort of created Brienne of Tarth as an answer to that.

I was inspired by people like Eleanor of Aquitaine and not so much Joan of Arc, but the queens of Scottish history, from Lady Macbeth on down - strong women who didn’t put on chain-mail bikinis to go forth into battle, but exercised immense powers by other ways.” 

—Pajiba - 2014

That quote was from the Edinburgh International Book Festival 2014.  During that event, and even before, there were reports about GRRM saying that: “Brienne is Sansa with a sword”.     

Since there was no primary source for this quote (I just found a broken link not longer available), just the fan reports we found in reddit and westeros.org, with the help of some friends, we decided to ask the man himself. We contacted him via email. 

And he answered us. 

More or less the question was this:

I recently came across a quotation that’s been attributed to you, but unfortunately the original source is no longer available, and I wanted to confirm it’s something you’ve actually said in the past. In 2014 at the Edinburgh Book Festival, multiple fans quoted you as saying that Brienne of Tarth is “Sansa with a sword,” with regards to certain personality traits. Is that an accurate quotation?

And George’s answer was this:

I don’t remember saying that, but it could be. It has been six years. GRRM

¡My friends and I are still ecstatic!

And as I said before, this beautiful quote “Brienne is Sansa with a sword”, also reminds me of this interview:

Game of Thrones Season 4 Premiere: 

Interviewer: Is there any character who is morally beyond reproach?      

GRRM: Beyon reproach? You mean like good, so good? Probably not.

Interviewer: I was thinking Brienne.    

GRRM: Maybe, yes, certainly. She’s up there. She’s very idealistic. At least in the beginning, but you know her journey still has a way to go, and my world has a way of testing one’s ideals, so we’ll see by the end.

That Brienne description sounds pretty much like Sansa, right?

So there you have it, I just love that Catelyn, Brienne and Sansa belong to the Eleanor of Aquitaine’s kick-ass women club.

BAD REPUTATION ¡KICK-ASS REPUTATION!

As you can imagine, through all these years, Eleanor of Aquitaine, for being the woman she was, had also gotten a bad reputation:

At times portrayed as a frivolous young woman or a manipulative schemer, Eleanor was a savvy player on the political stage—unafraid to exercise the power she held; her reputation may have been damaged by her boldness, but her influence on the political and cultural events of the 12th century remains undiminished. 

—National Geographic

She has been misjudged by many French historians who have noted only her youthful frivolity, ignoring the tenacity, political wisdom, and energy that characterized the years of her maturity. “She was beautiful and just, imposing and modest, humble and elegant”; and, as the nuns of Fontevrault wrote in their necrology, a queen “who surpassed almost all the queens of the world.” 

—Britannica

Indeed, while researching for this post I found awful reports about Eleanor, trying to disqualified her and her achievements, and trying also to demystify her figure calling most of the facts attributed to her, fantasies and fiction.  In a state where we don’t even have a reliable source about Eleanor’s true physical features, I think it is more probable that we only knew a few things about her, and knowing so little, she still is “one of the most kick-ass women of the Middle Ages”.

Thanks the Gods, Alysanne never suffered of this bad reputation “phenomenon”, the way other women from Fire and Blood had.  You just have to read the things that were told about the first Rhaenys and Rhaena to know that they were the subjects of misogyny and bad propaganda as a way to diminished them and exalt other characters.

I’m not saying that Alysanne didn’t deserve to be called the “Good Queen”, but Jaehaerys used her for his Targaryen supremacy propaganda campaign, and, as you may have already realized, most of the time Alysanne was the real author of the best initiatives and laws of Jaehaerys’ rule:

“Words are wind,” he told his council, “but wind can fan a fire. My father and my uncle fought words with steel and flame. We shall fight words with words, and put out the fires before they start.” And so saying, His Grace sent forth not knights and men-at-arms, but preachers. “Tell every man you meet of Alysanne’s kindness, her sweet and gentle nature, and her love for all the people of our kingdom, great and small,” the king charged them. 

—Fire & Blood

But Catelyn and Sansa were not freed of this bad reputation “phenomenon”. Catelyn and Sansa are two of the most hated and insulted characters of ASOIAF, no matter how many times the author himself has defended them of unjust critics and baseless judgments. Just like Eleanor, Catelyn and Sansa are called frivolous, manipulative, schemers; but also, and at the same time, useless and whiny.  It’s ridiculous.

Following the "Creating Characters" panel, Linda and I mentioned to George that some people gave Sansa and Catelyn a lot of grief, claiming they "whined" too much.

George was quite adamant that he disagreed with those readers. He pointed out that the problem is that readers often don't seem to make a distinction between internal thought and external speech in a way that an author might prefer. Specifically, in terms of "whining", to him whining is a verbal act -- you actually have to speak to whine. Cat doesn't do that, though -- all her dark, depressed thoughts are kept to herself. Yes, the reader is aware of them, because they read her POV, but she absolutely does not burden other characters with them. Basically, everyone has bad times among the good times, and they think negatively then but just having negative thoughts isn't whining.

[Source]

There you have it haters, GRRM wants for you to know that you can’t read.

So, let’s just change this bad reputation tag for a better one: ¡KICK-ASS REPUTATION!

And to finish this really long post, I will leave you with what I wrote about the l’Armure necklace that Louis Vuitton gave to Sophie Turner for the 71st annual Emmy Awards:

The dazzling piece in question is titled the l’Armure necklace, from Louis Vuitton’s “Riders of the Knights” collection. Made with white gold, 640 diamonds and 305 baguette-cut diamonds, it took over 1,175 hours of work to complete. “The design is inspired by medieval armor,” Louis Vuitton’s jewelry designer Francesca Amfitheatrof told Vogue. [Source]

The Riders of the Knights collection achieves an immersive aesthetic drawn from medieval codes of chivalry and heraldic crests. (…)

With this new collection, the House pays tribute to the powerful vision that impelled so many medieval heroines to transcend their limitations and forge their own destiny. These women made a lasting mark on the man’s world they inhabited, shaping their fate. They are the very embodiment of determination and independence, values that reflect the Louis Vuitton woman. [Source]

Louis Vuitton literally gave Sophie her own armor in the form of a white gold and diamonds necklace, in a very similar fashion to Michele Clapton giving Sansa her Needle necklace and her armor belt and dress, that armored her against all the claimers of her body and ancestral lands.  

A beautiful and symbolic way to honor the character Sophie played for about 10 years, Sansa Stark, a medieval heroine that prevailed against the patriarchal Westerosi society, never abandoning her feminine strength and courage, while still believing in chivalry and inspiring true knights along her path. 

¡The Queen in the North!    

¡The Queen in the North!    

¡The Queen in the North!    

¡The Queen in the North!    

[gablehood]

Thoughts on who Elizabeth Tudor (daughter of Elizabeth of York and Henry VII) might have married if she lived a much longer life? Working on an AU and curious about your thoughts

Oooh, I'm honoured you'd ask me! 💖

Although, I will admit, a lot of my history knowledge comes from the internet, so I shall make an immediate disclaimer that I am the furthest thing from an expert. That being said, I'll try my best all the same to make an educated guess! And I hope I won't look too foolish doing so.

Since Elizabeth was born before Mary Tudor, who'd go on to become a brief Queen Consort of France, it may be possible that would have been Elizabeth's fate if she had lived.

According to Wikipedia (although I know that's hardly a very valid source, I will hold my hands up to that) considerations had been in place during Elizabeth's short life to betroth her to Francis I, who was born almost exactly one year before Elizabeth's death.

That being said, from what I can gather, there seems to be much more evidence that Henry VII favoured nurturing his alliance with Spain, as opposed to one with France. It's possible that those initial, very early considerations to marry Elizabeth and Francis would have come to nothing in the subsequent years.

Elizabeth, had she lived, would have been a few months short of her tenth birthday when her elder brother Arthur died in 1502. It's recorded that Henry VII made some half-hearted considerations of re-marriage, including making overtures towards the widowed Joanna of Naples.

If Henry had been considering a Naples match, or indeed a match with any available member of the House of Trastamara, as being a politically expedient one, then this may have been a point that he'd have considered utilizing Elizabeth. Seeing as Henry was already mulling over a Scottish marriage for her elder sister Margaret as early as 1497, when Margaret was not quite 8 years old, Elizabeth could very much have been a candidate even at this young age.

Of course, Henry VII only lived to 1509. A teenage Elizabeth could very well have still been unmarried at this stage. We know Henry VII allowed Catherine of Aragon to remain in a relative limbo during the latter years of his life, going back and forth with Spain regarding whether she'd be returned or remarried in England. He may not have rushed any arrangements for Elizabeth either, and she could easily have been unmarried and unpromised to anyone by the time her elder brother became King Henry VIII. In which case she may have been used by Henry as a tool in establishing his early reign, by launching her into an expedient marriage. One that would probably not include France, since Henry's early reign was marked with a lot of contention against the crown.

Of course, all this is approaching the hypothetical from a purely political viewpoint. Taking into account only what her father and brother might have wanted for her, using her as a pawn for their own political agendas. We know the Tudors were known for their unconventional marriages. Henry VIII quite infamously went against the expected norms when it came to marriages, but so too did his surviving sisters Mary and Margaret, the former having married Henry's close friend Charles Brandon without royal permission, and Margaret entering into not one, but two frought marriages after the death of her first husband, James IV of Scotland.

Had Elizabeth Tudor lived, it's entirely possible that the marriage she made would not have been one carefully chosen based on political expedience, but one of her own design, and her own choice, risking the ire of her family and peril to her own person and that of the husband she chose.

This is all a bit general and vague, I’m afraid, but I hope it can be of some use to you and act as some inspiration. And I wish you all the best with your writing for this AU! It’s a brilliantly unique idea, and I hope something marvellous comes of it. 

[feuillesmortes]

bit of an odd question... do you know much about those astrological predictions HVII was given for new years 1503 I think it was? and also HVIII's original natal chart + analysis if that even exists... I have very niche interests haha

Hello, anon! I do have information about that unfortunate prediction. As always, I talk more about the topic under the cut! 🕊️🕊️

First of all, for a bit of context, it wasn’t at all the first reading Henry VII received during his reign. England during the late middle ages has been described as an ‘astrological backwater’, though the astrological treaties dedicated to Humphrey Duke of Gloucester might have been an exceptional example of royal patronage. Most studies about astrology at that time were carried out in universities as astrology in itself is (and was) not a type of religion. There was, however, a need to demonstrate both theological orthodoxy and respect for ecclesiastical authority when conducting those studies, as we can see by the show trials of Henry IV’s queen, Joan of Navarre, in 1419 and of Eleanor Cobham, Humphrey’s wife, in 1441 (both women accused to use astrological predictions to act against their kings). As Henry VII came to the throne, though, astrology took a prominent cultural place at the king’s court as he endeavoured to follow wider European trends in the development of art and science.

Henry VII was the first English monarch to employ an official court astrologer, the Italian physician William Parron of Piacenza. Besides Parron, there were other two prominent astrology enthusiasts at his court: Richard Fitzjames and Lewis Caerlon (who served as physician to both Henry VII and his consort Elizabeth of York). As you can see in this illustration here, in matters of astrology, it has been suggested that Henry was acting with full support of the state and church — the archbishop in the figure, most likely John Morton (then Archbishop of Canterbury), lends his sanction of the event by pointing to the stars outside the palace — in fact, something that is not so often commented is the largely successful foreign diplomacy of his reign which also included the full backing of Pope Innocent VIII (something I might expand later on in another post). The manuscript in question included treaties on astronomy, astrology, geomancy, and prophecy, so you can see how vast that area of study was. 

Parron came to England in the 1480s and made a number of successful astrological predictions. He called himself a scholar, physician, and professor of astrology. From 1496 to 1503 he dedicated a series of astrological works to Henry VII, including the Libellus de astrorum succincte vi fatali (Concerning the Deadly Power of the Encircling Stars) in 1499. There is one payment of £1 to ‘Master William Paronus, an astronymyre’ from Henry’s privy purse accounts on 6 March 1499 which might have been a payment for the writing of this work (it would only be completed in October of that year) or it might have concerned some prophecy related to the birth of Prince Edmund since the prince had been born in that same year, on the 21st of February.

William Parron made successful predictions about the fortunes of Henry VII’s allies, including King Louis of France and King Ferdinand of Aragon, and in 1500, he mentioned “outstanding prospects for the negotiations for a marriage with the latter.” Nevertheless, Parron failed to predict Prince Arthur’s demise: his 1502 commentary on the prince simply said that ‘‘The illustrious Arthur, Prince of Wales will be safe [and] triumphant.’’ After this relative blunder, innocuous as it was, Parron prepared another treatise, the Liber de optimo fato nobilissimi domini Henrici Eboraci ducis, concerning the excellent fortune of Henry Duke of York and his parents, in two presentation copies that were decorated lavishly in the Burgundian style as you can see below (BL Royal MS 12 B VI, British Library):

As you may know, Parron was not fortunate in the predictions for the length of the life of Henry VII and his queen Elizabeth of York. He had made those predictions based on the natal charts of the king, the queen and of their son Henry (as well on the position of the stars during the king’s coronation). Parron argued that all the astrological indicators pointed to Henry VII living for a hundred years, while Elizabeth of York would live to be eighty, perhaps ninety years old. The queen died, 37-years-old, within months of this prediction and Parron understandably left Henry’s court to seek patronage elsewhere. During his own lifetime a fellow astrologer favoured in the French court by King Charles VIII, Simon de Phares, had been tried by an ecclesiastical court at the University of Paris on accusations of charlatanism. His extensive library of astrological books was confiscated and no one knows exactly what happened to him after 1499. Even with all those humanist trends sweeping Europe, it was still dangerous to be an astrologer and fail at your job.

About Henry VIII’s original natal chart reading, you might be referring to this one? I think it was contained in the Liber optimus mentioned above but as I don’t have a copy of Lipscomb & Betteridge’s work I can’t check the source (@alicehoffmans might help you with that). As you can see, even today there are several different lines of astrology and I’m not sure which approach they used to compose that predictive chart reading, which is a different analysis than simply looking at someone’s natal chart to analyse personality. If you’re interested in that, though, I’ve done a simple natal chart reading of Henry VIII and his parents here. I’ve always had the intention to add more depth to it but you know, I keep forgetting 🌹x

[mermaidsirennikita]

Do you like Sansa Stark? What parallels you see between her character and real history figures?

I don’t like Sansa—I adore her! Book and show versions. She’s easily a top 3 character for me. Maybe the only person I love more is Cersei?

I do think the obvious historic parallel to Sansa has weight—Elizabeth of York. You can of course draw parallels between GRRM’s plot and the Wars of the Roses. Sansa is a vulnerable princess figure who has been essentially divested of her official legal power but still has a lot of support due to her family name. She is therefore a key figure not so much because she’s on the battlefield but because whoever marries her has a potential claim that will further legitimize his own. Elizabeth of York was not technically the heir to anything when Henry VII married her; her parents’ marriage had been tossed aside and her uncle’s direct line was the new line of inheritance, even before a totally different house took over. Yet the support surrounding her family meant that it would be extremely difficult for Henry VII to sustain consolidated power without her. Sansa has been discussed and treated in a similar manner. Even when Joffrey found her “unfit to wed”, it was still important for the Lannisters to keep consolidated power by making her a legal part of the family.

Furthermore, Elizabeth of York went in and out of multiple rumored or official engagements. Sansa has had multiple engagements shot down, an actual marriage to Tyrion, And is in the books currently in the clutches of a man who probably intends to marry her or at least has at some point, for reasons both political and sexual. Her relationship with Baelish can be compared to the rumors about Elizabeth of York and Richard III. Though those were like just rumors, Baelish is also a man close to her family, much older, who is in a protective position that is being perverted by his own desires, which is how the Richard III rumors are often depicted in fiction. Tyrion has also been compared to Richard III as a clever uncle figure with a physical disability, and he DID marry Sansa, so there’s that as well.

There’s also, especially if you bring in show!canon, a clear association between Sansa and Elizabeth I, but I don’t think it’s nearly as strong. You do again have this idea of a noblewoman whose status is removed after the death of a parent, and Sansa stands as an heir after the deaths of multiple figures ahead of her (though obviously Bran and Rickon are obviously alive still, as far as we know). This is how Elizabeth came to her own throne. There is also the idea of a girl who watched multiple potential friends and allies go to the block, which led to her becoming very neutral and cautious. I do think we’re heading there with book!sansa. But Elizabeth lacked this mentor figure Sansa has, of course.

[richmond-rex]

thinking about the war of the roses and how all the women involved would have probably gotten along really well in another time :(

Doubly sad because Cecily Neville and Margaret of Anjou were very courteous and considerate of each other before the conflict began, and Margaret and Jacquetta of Luxemburg really were very good friends. Elizabeth Woodville's of a different generation, but she did seem to be sympathetic to Margaret after her defeat considering she joined a fraternity that Elizabeth was part of and was allowed to be depicted as a former queen. I think, in a different time, they would have gotten along very well.

I think the only two women who were on "differing" sides but were enabled due to circumstances to get along and ultimately ended up in a mutually beneficial position due to a common goal were Elizabeth Woodville and Margaret Beaufort. We don't know how personally close they were, well-intention seems likely, considering the role Margaret played in the birth of Elizabeth's last child, how they worked together very well for the marriage alliance between their kids, and how there was no recorded conflict between them after Henry VII ascended the throne. I believe they also went to mass together with their children once?

just thinking random thoughts lol

Hi! Yes, practically all the important women involved in the wars of the roses had a good or at least cordial relationship with each other, which is why it's always so baffling to see histfic authors write them hating each other with such fervour just because they ended up on opposite sides of the war. Most of them were on the same side at some point: @heartofstanding can talk more about Cecily and Margaret of Anjou's relationship, but Margaret and Jacquetta were definitely good friends for a long time. Jacquetta was among the three or four most important women held in high regard by Margaret going by the gift records of this queen, to say nothing about the fact that Jacquetta's husband was created a baron and a knight of the Garter(!!) during Margaret's time, and only after her arrival in England.

Elizabeth Woodville would have probably appreciated Margaret's regard for her family too, which is why Weir writing Elizabeth & Jacquetta calling Margaret of Anjou 'the pretended Queen Margaret, our great enemy' doesn't make any sense! Even later when they were on opposite sides, I don't think the level of animosity would have risen that high, and you can see a mark of friendliness also in the fact that Elizabeth Woodville allowed Margaret to join the same fraternity of which she was a patron. Perhaps it was her regard for Margaret that made Elizabeth take up the patronage of Queen's College (founded by Margaret) too—a respect for her predecessor's vision.

I'm still of the opinion that Elizabeth Woodville, her daughter and Margaret Beaufort were probably good friends (as I explained here and here). Besides, Margaret Beaufort seems to have held great admiration for Cecily Neville (considering she based her household and routine on Cecily's) and even Cecily may have come to like Margaret Beaufort, going by the way she left Margaret some religious books in her last will when not even all her surviving relatives were contemplated. Probably the only women that were on opposite sides that didn't get along well were Margaret Beaufort and Margaret of York. In a letter thanking the earl of Ormond for a pair of gloves he sent her from Flanders, Margaret wrote:

‘I thank you heartily that ye list so soon remember me with my gloves, the which were right good, save they were too much for my hand. I think the ladies in that parts be great ladies all, and according to their great estate they have great personages’.

She was, of course, taking a dig at Margaret of York, who was dowager duchess of Burgundy ('great lady') and famously tall ('great personage'). Considering Margaret of York was at that time creating great problems for Margaret Beaufort's son by lying about Perkin Warbeck and funding an army against him—probably in Margaret Beaufort's opinion, for no reason—it's understandable that she would not have had the greatest sympathy for the dowager duchess. They had no previous history of friendship.

[thecatsaesthetics]

Round-Up:l Historical Fiction I’ve read in the past 6 months or so…

I wanted to do a round-up, I don’t think I’ve told people here but I got a job last December where I work from 3pm to 11pm as a data processor and I’m not allowed to have my phone or anything on me but an mp3 player. So I’ve been listening to audible books after audible books. So today I’ve going to give you a short round-up of the books I’ve listened to. 

Becoming Marie Antoinette by Juliet Grey:

This book centers on the Young Marie Antoinette, through her childhood to her accession to the French Throne. It’s a rather good take on the character of Marie Antoinette, they show how underprepared she was for life at the French Court. How different the Austrian Court was. They showed how Maria Theresa had to fight battle after battle to ensure the alliance took place. The marriage of Louis and Marie was so well done. The author really took her time to slowly build the relationship up and highlight how deep there love for each other became. This book was actually perfect for a historical fiction novel, stuck to the facts, very well researched about the era and had interesting characters. The only issue I had is a series but the rest of the series isn’t available in audiobook format. I hope one day the other two books get narrated and I can listen to them.  

The Romanov Empress by C. W. Gortner: 

This book centers on Tsarina Maria “Minnie” Feodorovna (mother of Nicholas II), it starts with her sisters in the engagement of the future Edward VII and to WWI and the aftermath of the Russian Revolution. The book closes out on Minnie and her remaining children fleeing to Great Britain. 

Now this book was very conflicting for me. The problem I had with this book was the characterization of Alexandra Feodorovna (Nicholas II’s wife). It seems Gortner is of the opinion that Alexandra caused the downfall of the Romanov’s, which frankly just isn’t true. The problem for me is, it could be Gortner doesn’t actually believe this, historically Minnie and Alexandra didn’t get along, the book is written from Minnie’s POV. So it’s natural that there is a lot Alexandra hate, but it also seemed over the top. The book blames Alexandra for Nicholas for celebrating after the Khodynka Tragedy (which literally ensured his poor reputation amongst the people). However, everything I’ve read on the topic indicates it was Nicholas’ uncles that insisted the parties continue. To blame Alexandra for every action Nicholas took is just incredibly unfair and simply not true. Alexandra certainly wasn’t a victim but we really need to let Nicholas II stand on his own. If you’re interested the History of Russian Rulers did amazing podcast episodes on Nicholas and really showed how his own actions led to his demise. Now the positives of this book are it really highlights Minnie’s relationship with her sister Alexandra of Denmark (who was the wife of Edward VII). It also shows how interconnected all the families of the first WWI was. The characterization of Alexander III is spot on, and the love between him and Minnie is incredibly believable. I also loved Alexander II in this book (his good and bad sides). Minnie’s relationship with her sister in law Maria of Mecklenburgh adds spice to the book. They were true frenemies. The book does a great job of taking you back to the late 1800s and into the last hours of Imperial Russia. They also highlight the danger the last Romanovs were truly in and how naïve they were to the challenges they were facing. It also showed how Minnie and Alexander’s parenting came back to bit them. Minnie seems to just face conflict after conflict with all of her children. But it’s also heartbreaking to read her reaction to her sons (not just Nicholas but also her son Michael) and grandchildren were murdered. Not to mention the other children she lost (to illness). Also the death of Alexander III was touching. If you’re interesting in Russian history I would give this a go, but take the Alexandra stuff with a huge grain of salt.

The Queens Vows by C. W. Gortner: 

This book centers on Isabel of Castile, going from her childhood to events of 1492. Now I’m going to say this if you’re interested in Gortner as an author you should read this book. Out of the three books I’ve read by him this is the one I believe is most worth your time. His exploration into the character of Isabel is near perfect. While he does have a few inaccuracies (which he mentions at the end of the book) they only add to the story. This book was really able to capture the 1400s for me in a way no other book has to date.

The marriage between Isabel and Ferdinand in this book is extremely well done. You get to see how much they love each other and how troubled the marriage could be. I truly enjoyed the characterization of her brother Henry IV. The weaknesses he had and the struggle between him and Isabel. If you enjoyed the Isabel TV Series this would be a great add on. It’s not exactly the same (Gortner makes it near certain that Isabel’s niece is illegitimate unlike the show) but it’s a perfect add on if you have been craving more since the show ended. I think Gortner handled the Jewish expulsion of 1492 very well. He notes in the back we really don’t know what went through Isabel’s head during that decision, he chose to take one version of it. He also notes how incredibly powerful the idea of damnation was, and that even if Isabel had no personal issues with Jewish people in her realm the overwhelming religious pressure cannot be denied. I agree with him on this point, and while it’s easy for us (in the 21st century) laugh off the idea of damnation in 1492 it was a part of there reality.  

The Vatican Princess by C. W. Gortner: 

This follows the life of Lucrezia Borgia from the start of her father’s succession to the papacy to her entering her marriage with Alfonso d’Este. This one by Gortner was my least favorite. Like the other two, it was incredibly well researched and it does a great job pulling you back. However, I personally didn’t like the characterizations or the route he chose at times. I’m going to give spoilers for the book FYI so scroll past if you don’t want to know. He took the route of victim Lucrezia, which doesn’t appeal to me very much. Also he had Vannozza dei Cattanei hate her daughter for steal the attention of Rodrigo, it has Giovanni Sforza be an abusive ass who sexually assaults her, it has Rodrigo sending Giulia to sleep with Giovanni Sforza to keep him off Lucrezia (And sleep with Juan as well for some reason), it has her brother Juan rape and impregnate her and he does this because he’s upset Cesare killed his lover Prince Cem and wants to hurt Cesare, has Rodrigo grow to despise Lucrezia for Cesare murdering Juan, Rodrigo allows Cesare to murder Alfonso of Aragon to hurt Lucrezia like he was hurt by Juan’s death, oh also Cesare doesn’t murder Juan for the rape itself it’s more about Juan getting to have Lucrezia “first”, it also has Vannozza upset with Lucrezia for Juan raping her as well, and has Lucrezia end up despising Cesare after the murder of Alfonso of Aragon.

Now I’m not a Borgia expert by any means but the book seems to just be filled with nonsense to me. The only good parts of this book were Sancha of Aragon and Lucrezia’s friendship (WHICH BOTH TV SERIES DENIED ME OF) and Giulia Farnese massively calling out Rodrigo for basically pimping her out. While I find the latter inaccurate it was enjoyable to read Giulia talk about how Rodrigo took her when she was barely more than a child and ruined her. Personally, I’d skip this book it’s really not worth it.

The Accidental Empress and Sisi Empress on Her Own by Allison Pataki:

This follows the life of Empress Sisi of Austria-Hungary from her childhood to her assassination.  

This is a series but the two books were read by different people so it didn’t feel like to me. I think all series should have to be read by the same person. To sum it up, the first book is interesting and the second book is a dud. 

The first book I enjoyed so much, it follows Sisi from her childhood to the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867. It follows her disasters marriage with Emperor Franz Joseph at the age of 15, her struggles with her mother in law, her struggles with postpartum depression, and her romance with the Hungarian Count Andrassy. The first book really makes you feel bad for Sisi, she struggles with a rather cold abusive man who claims to love her (but only really loves her image not her) and her struggle for freedom in the Austrian Court. Sisi is more or less pushed out of Franz Joseph and her children’s life. Franz replaces her with mistresses and her mother in law takes over the role of mother to her children. The book ends on a clear high note (Sisi gaining Hungary proper status in the Empire) and honestly the author should have left it there. 

The second book is set after the birth of her final child Valerie (the only child she’s allowed to raise) and to her assassination. The book was a drag, I personally didn’t like the narrator and it took me forever to finish the book. The book makes Sisi incredibly unlikable, it makes it seem more like she abandoned her husband and family rather than being pushed out. The book opens up with Sisi having the opportunity to oversee Crown Prince Rudolf’s (And to have more involvement in his upbringing) but would rather go to Britain to ride horses. She basically is framed as being responsible for his tragedy. The author also ruins the love story she had set up between Andrassy and Sisi (which I had adored in the previous book). Now I understand you have to keep with history but you can’t set up a massive love story in the first book and they tear it down a few chapters in by the second book. The whole second book was a massive let down, I’d reread the first one but not the second one.

The Summer Queen, The Winter Crown, The Autumn Throne, by Elizabeth Chadwick: This book series centers on Eleanor of Aquitaine from childhood to death.  

This series was by far one of my favorite reads of 2019. You should really believe the hype about this series, it truly is that good. Now the books span a massive amount of time so I can’t go into everything but it was 1000% worth reading. The books explore the early Medieval World incredibly well. The author takes a highly realistic approach to Eleanor (who at the end of her first novel claims wasn’t a woman ahead of her time but rather a woman of her time) with a few dramatizations. This book series should be picked up for a TV series on Starz, HBO, or Showtime. It has all the material you need to make an epic TV series. I highly enjoyed the exploration of her marriages to both Louis VIII of France and Henry II of England. How different and yet strikingly similar the relationships were. The only slight issue I have is the author does tend to go the route of King John evil, King Richard I good. Which I personally don’t believe is true. However, they do a great job showing that even though Richard is Eleanor’s favorite she does love John. Again the books take a highly realistic approach to Eleanor so the author more or less stays away from all the rumors about her  (with the expectation of one which I find to add more to the series rather than take away). This is a must-read series, and I can only hope Elizabeth Chadwick will write more series like this. I also hope one day a TV network picks up the novels to adapt.

House of Rejoicing (Part 1), Storm in the Sky (Part 2), Eater of Hearts (Part 3) (The Book of Coming Forth by Day Series) by Libbie Hawker:  These books have multiple points of view (GRRM style) set in Ancient Egypt during the Amarna Era. Starting at the end of Amenhotep III and to the death of King Tut. The POVs range from Kiya, Nefertiti, Tiye, Sitamun, Beketaten, Horemheb, Meritaten, and Ankhesenpaaten (I might have missed some but idk). This series is not for the light of heart, the books include rape, incest, pedophilia, violence against women, etc. I mean this book series is just a lot to take in. The author goes down the route that Akhenaten was an abusive pedophile screwing every barely 13-year-old girl he could get his hands on (his daughters, sisters, sister in law etc). The concept of this series was excellent. A multi-narrative series set in Ancient Egypt, however, the series just misses the mark. I feel like Hawker wanted this to be the ASOIAF of Ancient Egypt novels but couldn’t commit. One of the biggest writing issues I had with this was how short the books were for A. the number of POVs we had, and B. for the span of time we went through. I think this series would have benefited from more books and longer novels. The author also tries to dive into the misogyny and how it affected women. However again she just misses the mark somehow. I could see what she was attempting but it just never got there if you know what I mean. I think this series feels more a draft than a finished product.  Also, the plot is a jumbled mess. Now it’s Ancient Egypt you can really do anything (especially with the Amarna era) but this series was so out there… and I’ve read Philippa Gregory. Some of the things that happened nearly had me bursting out laughing at work.  I really can’t get into all craziness of this series but it’s a lot just trust me. Like I said Akhenaten is a pedophile (actually a lot of the men were) in this book, which idk I don’t feel comfortable with how all of the problematic stuff was handled. The first book was the best book of the series and the last two are really where the craziness begins. But truly I would skip this series unless you up for hours of nonsense and craziness.

[minervacasterly]

Catalina of Aragon & Juana I of Castilla: Sisters, Rivals, and Would-be-Allies

“Catherine of Aragon obtained from her father, Ferdinand a “letter of credence.” Making her officially his ambassador to her father-in-law, Henry. Catherine, of course, had every reason to desire her sister’s presence at Henry’s side, which might not only help her free herself from linbo but aso relieve her endless money worries. The dispute about her dowry had dragged on, and she sent frantic pleas to her father that she was spending what money she could obtain –money from selling her plate and jewels, the odd handout from Ferdinand himself from Henry [VII]- not on frivolities but only on necessities. (The Spanish ambassador De Puebla was famous for eating at court to save money; Margaret Beaufort as well as her son found that funny.) The desperate tone of her letters in these last years of Henry VII’s reign recalls that of Elizabeth of York, seemingly writing her burning desire to marry her uncle Richard more than twenty years before. But while Henry Vii was making every effort to secure Juana’s hand, it would soon become clear that he was in no state to contemplate anything so arduous as another marriage. In the next chill of the early spring of 1508, his illness returned, and soon Margaret Beaufort was back in Richmond with her orders and her sweet wine. Once again Henry recovered –he was strong enough by summertime to resume normal activities- but the writing was on the wall… The great diplomatic game of arranging marriages went on, with Prince Henry and Princess Mary the two cards Henry VII still had to play. Three marriages had been discussed while Philip of Burgundy was on English shores: one between Prince Henry and Philip’s daughter, another between King Henry and Philip’s sister, and a third between Mary and the son of Juana and Philip, a boy named Charles who was destined to become the most powerful ruler in Europe, since Charles was heir through his mother to the Spanish territories and through his father to the Holy Roman Empire …” (Sarah Gristwood, Blood Sisters)

The Spanish Princess (based off Philipa Greggory’s The Constant Princess & The King’s Curse) did a good job showing the animosity and nostalgia between the two royal sisters, Juana and Catherine. Unfortunately, when it came to portraying their rivalry, they went over the top by having Juana sleeping with Catherine as a way of getting back at her.

In real life, as pointed by Sarah Gristwood, the situation in Castile, tore the sisters apart. Catherine longed to reconnect with Juana, but she had her own issues to deal with. Her father had his hands tied and although being named his ambassador helped her (somewhat), it wasn’t enough. As a result, she had to court Juana and Philip, while still remaining loyal to her father. Moreover, although a widowed Juana married to Henry VII, would distract her from Castile, Catherine and Ferdinand knew that it was too much of a risk. The prospect was tempting for Catherine. It would mean her sister would come to England again, this time permanently and without Philip. But Henry VII, being the cunning, astute monarch that he was, would use her claim to Castile to keep Ferdinand in check. None of this came to pass. With Henry VII’s deteriorating health and Ferdinand’s strong hold on Castile, it became clear that Prince Harry would have the last word on who’d be his bride and his ally. Not his father.

The rest is a story we all know. Both Juana and Catherine’s stories end in tragedy. Juana was ousted by her father and later her son. Catherine was set aside by Henry VIII, the same man who once wore her colors proudly during the joust after their joint coronation, where he also boasted that he was her Sir-Loyal-Heart. Unlike Juana, it wasn’t madness that drove them apart. It was the lack of a male heir to inherit his father’s crown. If Catherine couldn’t give him a precious heir that would outlive him, he was going to look to someone who could.

Additional sources: Sister Queens by Julia Fox, Catherine of Aragon by Giles Tremlett, Katharine of Aragon by Patrick Williams, Six Wives: the Queens of Henry VIII by David Starkey, Catherine of Aragon by Amy Licence and lastly A Queen of Unrest: The Story of Juana of Castile, Mother of Charles V by Harry Tighe. This last one is a bit outdated but nevertheless, it is very informative and insightful.

[lady-plantagenet]

Unsolicited Book Reviews (n5): Wife to theKingmaker

Rating:

⭐️⭐️⭐️

Even before I had an account I had a tendency to go to tumblr to see people’s opinions before buying a histfic novel. Certain books are either severely underrepresented where I feel like there needs to be something on them, whereas others that are talked about enough - something more can still be said. So for my quarantine fun, I had decided to start a series where I review every medieval historical fiction novel I read. Hopefully, it will either start interesting discussions or at least be some help for those browsing its tag when considering purchasing it.

TL;DR: Ok swear to god this book was written by two different people. The ending was actually heart-wrenching, but so much had annoyed me throughout that I swore to myself to never again touch this genre for my own health. Twas an odd tale, and tbh the fact that it was odd probably elevated it from the 2 stars (or hell maybe even 1 if it was going to get any more richardian) to 3. Honestly, quite glad I read it in the end. Not the most historically informative, but some of the character arcs were actually quite neat (however extremely farfetched). Spoiler Warning: I’m going to divulge a lot on here because I know no one who follows me is going to read this book.

Plot: Ok, the plot... It was only after I placed my order that I realised this is the Sandra Heath Wilson of ‘Cicely’s King’ fame. I cringed and didn’t know what to do. For all you innocents out there... her Cicely series is a saga wherein Cecily of York pretty much bangs everyone who is male and from the house of york (minus her father and uncle George) and Even Henry VII(!!). She then has this kid by Richard III, calls him Leo and the rest is history(this is what I gleaned from goodreads). Nevertheless it had already shipped and honestly I had it coming; the synopsis does say she has an affair with her brother-in-law John Marquis of Montagu. Whatever, I couldn’t resist buying the only novel about Anne Beauchamp, and since it was published in the 70s/80s I knew it would at least be flamboyant and go all out. It delivered enough for it to have been worth reading.

So the novel follows Anne Beauchamp!(Nan) from when she is a 13 year old girl to 1478 when she finally leaves Beaulieu to go live at Middleham with her (as you guessed it- favourite) daughter Anne and her oh so belovéd son-in-law Richard Duke of Gloucester - You see? Since now finally the Great Other (Mr George) is finally vanquished England has its peace. Of course this is not true, Nan historically left the abbey in 1473 for Middleham and while I wanted a possible explanation from the author (who I would assume is better researched than I) for whether she went to Middleham out of her own volition or simply because the King trusted Gloucester better than Clarence... alas I got none. It was all pinned on the fact that the evil George (who as per usual alternates between omnipotent mastermind to absolute drunken himbo at the turn of a page) would not have her free for as long as she lived (for whatever reason). I really think the real historical explanation was because Edward trusted Gloucester - because after all Warwick Castle was Nan’s patrimony not Middleham. I doubt Nan had a choice in the matter but, the point is, Isabel was alive in 1473 and since there’s zero historical record or suggestion that Nan and Anne had ever seen her again, it would have been nice to have had a depiction of the conflicted feelings or a final meeting written for the three women. I’ll let it slide I guess, after all, one needs to cut some slack when it comes to books written pre-internet age by non-historians. And unlike Sunne in Splendour, this book does not purport to be completely accurate or a representation of the truth.

Christ some sub-plots were truly unexpected. One that made me groan at first was the whole arc between Nan and her niece Eleanor Butler. In this book she’s her ward (not historically true) and little Eleanor is all sweet and innocent and virtuous and, hell, at one point we get more Nan-Eleanor interaction than even between Nan - her own daughters (particularly Isabel who would have been the right age and a better substitute for Eleanor in their dialogue, but alas, who cares about Isabel right?). Eleanor even is the one to accidentally discover that Margaret of Anjou slept with Edmund Beaufort, siring Edward of Lancaster.

Ok. You’re probably thinking, god how trite eugh the Richardians are at it again, right? Yeah ok the Richardians are at it again, but it turns into something really neat at the end. Essentially, as I said, Nan has an affair with John Neville Marquis of Montagu (long story that I will expand on in characterisation) and she and him come upon Edward and Eleanor (overhearing them nothing more). So Edward and Nan then have this mutually assured destruction between them, because Edward divulges that he saw Nan and John years later when Nan confronts him (by this time he is married to Elizabeth Woodville) that she knows about the pre-contract with the intention of telling him off. He tells her that if she dares tell Warwick about the pre-contract he will tell Warwick about John, so she then agrees (also because she promised her niece that she would keep it quiet for the safety of her son by Edward). Years later when they meet again, Edward realised how much is at stake for Nan (especially since it turned out she loved Warwick all along and Edward figured that out), and so, during the period of John’s back-and-forth loyalties (we know he was disgruntled by the loss of the Northumberland Earldom)... Edward returns and tells Nan that if Montagu abandons him he will out her to Richard and cause a massive division between the brothers (militaristically speaking as well) and he knows he can do that because he figures out Nan will not out him because she blubbs about her promise to her niece. This madness then becomes bittersweet when (as history would have it) Montagu does end up fighting for Warwick, nevertheless, Nan is releaved during the whole time because there’s nothing in Warwick’s letters that give any indication that Edward ended up exposing her. Warwick dies in the battlefield, Nan is deeply aggrieved but happy he never found out at least. But then... years later when Edward comes to Beaulieu (1478 as this story would have it) to inform Nan that she may depart for Middleham, he tells her that he in fact did expose her to Warwick... but that Warwick didn’t believe him and laughed in his face because he thought there was no way she could be unfaithful because he knew she loved him. This sounds silly but it got to me a bit when I read it. Of course, we also have Edward saying he regretted his handling of the pre-contract affair because apparently Elizabeth Woodville had since lost interest in him and he’s hurt by how she shows no reaction to him having mistresses and he’s kinda given up, whereas Eleanor would have been more of a lapdog. This was essentially the centrepiece of the plot.

Look, I don’t really read these types of novels as a habit so I don’t know if bizarre plot lines like this are commonplace. Not going to lie though, it threw me and it was pleasantly enjoyable. This is basically what is to be said about the plot... the rest goes into characterisation. Nevertheless, this novel too often fell into the exposition trap (like telling us what is happening politically instead of showing us). While I appreciated the refresher of what happened 1445-1461 and I understand that the target audience of this book aren’t Wars of the Roses experts, I’ve seen it done more smoothly in many other more literary novels (eg Hawley Jarman’s or Lytton-Bulwer’s Last of the Barons). I’ve often said Sunne in Splendour was terribly dry and exposition-heavy, but at least it had historical detail so I could sometimes switch off and treat it as a non-fiction account for battles and character locations. But with this one I a) don’t have faith that the author paid attention to detail; see what I said earlier about the years 1473-1478, so I won’t take this as information and b) know that if she had done this with the years I know more about: 1461-1478, I would have gotten annoyed because of my familiarity with those decades.

Characterisation: Well we have lovelorn saintly Dickon here - always a pet peeve of mine. Look, I don’t have strong opinions about the man but it just innures me how whenever Richardianism rears it’s ugly head the plot suffers massively and it’s always favourite figures of mine that suffer the most. George Duke of Clarence... oh god, what can I say? Wife-beater, alcoholic, is disgusted by his wife when she is ill (you know, unlike the historical Clarence who had resided in the Abbot’s home near the infirmiary for the last months of his wife’s lying-in and after to be close to her and thereafter stuck with her until she passed away and two months after that as well), is stupid yet somehow still devious, is the indirect cause of her death... the list goes on. Welp, at least this Clarence unlike the Sunne in Splendour one has an elegant bearing, sense of fashion and is a great dancer. The Sunne one had NOTHING. It’s also odd that they make his attitude towards Isabel undergo a complete 180 as soon as he realises this marriage will no longer make him king. This makes no sense as the book has them want to marry for love, like YEARS before 1469, so this sudden attitude change makes no sense. Authors really need to be reminded that crown or no crown that marriage would still have made him the greatest magnate in England. There was also a ridiculous handling on the circumstance of his death, and this was the most factually wrong part of the book. Between Ankarette being aged down by 4 decades and the whole shmaz with Stillington, I don’t know where to begin. I bet most of you can guess how it was handled. Isabel is as per usual constantly depressed and without a personality because, well, we can’t have her compared to our shining heroine Anne Neville. 3x more beautiful, 5x more vivacious and 20x more significant than her doormat of a sister who complains all day- that is when she isn’t crying. Gahhh. Of course Anne Neville also cries but it’s for her beloved Dickon who she pines for constantly. Look, I have no qualms with romanticising this pairing, but authors need to keep in mind that Anne was like 13 at most when she became estranged from Gloucester. You. Need. To. Stop. Writing. Her. Like. A. Woman. . I don’t care what anyone says, no matter the time period, you can’t make me visualise a 13 year old that could feel romantic love of that deep a devotion and maturity and not send me laughing across the floor. But want to write a strong childish infatuation coming from a place of deep friendship? Fine by me.

Ok, onto more positive characterisation points: I liked Nan, quite a lot actually (I mean blatant daughter favouritism aside). A lot of authors attempt to write the proud noblewoman and great lady character but few pull it off. This is always how I have seen the real Anne Beauchamp and I’m glad to see it here. For a novel so insensitive towards certain figures, the author wrote Nan with great empathy. She was very intelligent but not in that artificial girlboss way, she loved her daughter(s) but in that medieval mother type of way (so no baby brain here), she may have not gotten along splendidly with all the women around her but there was none of that demeaning cattiness. About that, I want to say I was shocked by what a turn her relationship with Margaret of Anjou took. Since the whole Somerset-bastard child plotline was a thing... Nan was initially revolted and lost all her respect for Lancaster, but when the two women find themselves joined by fate they gain this strange mutual respect for one another. They butt heads a bit initially but Margaret of Anjou rises above it for her son’s sake and eventually strikes up an agreement with Nan on when they are to set sail. Margaret first won’t listen to Nan because she thinks she’s a fool but when she eventually slips by to tell Nan that she had thought about her plan and that maybe she’s right, she doesn’t apologise and Nan doesn’t need her to and it’s this weird telepathic understanding from then on and I certainly did not expect to see something like this in this novel. After the landing in England and news of Warwick’s death reaches the party, Margaret doesn’t gloat but diplomatically relays the news and when Nan says she wants to take sanctuary because she lost all heart and can’t fight on, Edward of Lancaster gently says something like: well if you come with us, you’ll at least get your revenge and that’s at least something (paraphrase). You could just tell this was Edward’s way of offering condolences, the type of way a child like him raised through war and promises of vengeance only could, and it was oddly powerful. Shame it couldn’t have happened as Nan and Margaret and Isabel all travelled at seperate times. The whole theme around Nan was that she wasn’t very partisan but only followed her husband as a magnate and then as a man, which I believe and it was great to see Team Lancaster understood Warwick was a seperate entity from York, and for all intents and purposes they were all in this together. Cool-headedness is much needed in this genre I realise, god how low flies the bar ~

Now onto the characterisation most people are wondering about. What of Warwick? He was the saving grace of the novel. He has the common touch yet he is sophisticated, he is idealistic yet he is shrewd, he is impassioned yet collected, he is dramatic yet subtle, he is ... I can go on and on. What is all the affair plot point about then? It doesn’t diminish the bond between the two main characters; to tell you quite truthfully the relationship the author wrote was bizarre yet still really touching. They used to hate eachother because Nan thought herself above him (after all the Warwick earldom was far more valuable than the Salisbury one- remember it was briefly a dukedom at one point), but then she sees what he made of himself and becomes proud of him and falls in love with him. However, he starts to get carried away with his ambitions, gets all-consumed by the legend of Warwick that he had cultivated and essentially becomes impersonal without wanting to (and realising). Nan feels she has lost him to the people of England (which are apparently all hypnotised by his presence, which ok is a fact grounded in history) and because of her wounded pride she starts seeking comfort in his brother (although, it makes little sense how this would work as I would gather he would also be away, especially at the Scottish boarders). When he refuses to support Warwick over Edward later on, she loses all feelings for Montagu and thinks him a coward, and when Warwick apologises for being amiss she realises that this whole time it was him she loved all along and is racked with guilt. I found this exploration of what it is like being wed to a man of such public standing quite interesting, the idea of losing him not to another woman or such but to his cause (which in this book is a mixture of belief in the french alliance, the common weal and subconsciously his own wounded pride brought on by an extreme adherence to inflexible chivalric values on his part and Edward IV’s actions), I confess, is not something I saw portrayed in this particular manner anywhere else. I mean it’s not like I’ve been searching for this particular motif, but this was a refreshing depiction of a medieval couple and it was a poignantly written relationship which the author had me invested in. The relationship was heartfelt because it was very distinct, Nan and Warwick weren’t just some stand-ins for a cash-grab but some consideration was paid to the real historical figures. The John plotline, sure I would in principle protest against something like this but it seems to have had two plot purposes: To illustrate the strain caused by the aforementioned issue and to kick off the whole Edward-Eleanor Butler-Montagu-Nan arc, which bizarre and unbelievable as it was, kept me on my toes. I’ll let it slide. Also, Edward IV was portrayed as quite a chilling villain in this, beholden of this weird mix of indifference, charm and wickedness.

Prose: This is what made me briefly wonder if this book was written by two different people. It failed to engage me in the first half, the descriptions were trite (except for the natural scenery bits), there was very little variety in sentence structures which gave it the stilted heaviness that thus afflicted The Sunne in Splendour (and most modern literature). There was a lot of redundancies eg the type of stuff like ‘whispered quietly’ or ‘yelled loudly’ and the author’s misunderstanding of certain period fashions drew me out eg references to bodices (not a thing then), calling the henin veil a silk scarf etc. She didn’t pull a Penman: exposit emotions to us, making me feel like I walked into a therapy session, but it was often heavy-handed. It first felt very much like an uninspired debut novel. A bit try-hard and I was wondering if this was the way of the bodice ripper... I wouldn’t know, I never read one before (though I’m unsure if this qualifies as it’s really not graphic and the focus is really not on sex nor is there much of it).

However, out of nowhere, the prose suddenly changed a little before half of the way in; colours, emotions, thoughts and the like started to blend masterfully. The sentence structures started varying to convey the way Nan was feeling. It became very show don’t tell, and it drew me in emotionally a bit (I must confess). Of course, that’s also around the point the plot had sort of started redeeming itself. Nan’s grief at her husband’s passing was particularly well conveyed - how she became a husk of her former self... I could read fifty pages of that. Her realisation that it had been him all along was also well written, and you could feel all the urgency and regret she felt at all the time she had wasted disregarding him as the plot grew nearer to Barnet. The mutual longing was also subtle yet strong, and it really was down to the effective use of sentence structure and waylaying of inspired thematic details. The mingling of past memories with present day in her later years was also very well done and with flow, and the adjectives etc used were no longer becoming distracting as before. My favourite part by far was the very last scene when she rides ahead of her escort to Middleham and she imagines a horse riding beside her caparisoned with the Neville standard; you can really feel how this is the first time that she had felt joy in years and she lets the ghost follow her.

... In Conclusion, this novel gave me very mixed feelings. I don’t know if I would have enjoyed it as much as I did had it not been for the fact that I entered it with a massive pre-formed love for the figures. It’s a bit like my experience with ‘Death Be Pardoner to Me’ (review #2 on this tag), was the book actually good or do I just have an affinity for the protagonist (Clarence in that case)? As such, I don’t think I would reccomend it. Indeed I wrote this spoilerish review because I was sure no one would fly off to Amazon after seeing this post. I can’t say if it’s above commercial historical romance in standard as this is the first time I’ve ever read a book from this genre. I think I’ll take a loongg break from historical fiction (after I finish with Jarman) because the Clarence portrayal was a bit of a nail in the coffin for me and I don’t want to continue upsetting myself for no reason. As I have now truly lost hope in reading a balanced depiction of him and if the literature isn’t absolutely expemplary why bother? Nevertheless, Warwick’s portrayal was a saving grace and made it impossible for me to give it two stars - it wasn’t perfect but still the best I’ve read (minus Last of the Barons Ofc). This is also a bit sad when you think about it, Warwick is also due some fictional justice. Even scholarly if you ask me.

The experience was educational as I learned a valuable lesson in what to avoid and include in my writing, what pitfalls/clichés not to fall into etc. I think I can draw another valuable lesson from this: Dear Histfic authors, if you happen to not be historians, heavily-researched in this time period, objective or literarily talented etc don’t take yourself seriously by publishing some tome of a work but just go nuts like this novel. At least this way you’re not sharing misinformation, inducing people into error and your work still gets to be engaging as opposed to a repetition of the previous amateur historical novelist. Yeah. For all the Sunne in Splendour’s superior quality, I must say I prefer this one better.

Tagging @pythionice who I have recently discovered has also read this book! Welcome fellow fan of Warwick <3

[snapheart1536]

Random Irritations

10. Tenth Anniversary Edition!

• Every time you ever find a book on Mary Boleyn, the Careys, Lettice or one of their descendants, the blurb and reviews will insist on informing you how Mary's children were 'almost certainly' by Henry.

There is no certainty! The book usually admits it too.

Do they think this makes the subjects more interesting, or lying sells the work?

Of course they do!

• Anyone who declares Mary, Queen of Scots to be the 'rightful Queen of England'.

There's never any following argument, instead it's thrown up with something of an ideological frenzy that no reason will reach.

Were it true, are they not aware of Mary's blatant incompetence as a ruler?

Is her uselessness not being given the oppotunity to damage England a tragedy?

Do they think she ought to have been permitted to do her worst, probably invoking civil war, because of her 'rights'?

• It may be myth, but Anne Boleyn being the villain for tearing a locket from Jane Seymour's neck puzzles me.

Jane was Anne's lady-in-waiting, appointed because of the family connection, with loyalty from her expected.

According to this she then boasts about Henry's attentions by flaunting his gifts in front of Henry's wife.

Oh, and Anne's in the wrong for objecting?

Had it been Anne waving a necklace at Katherine of Aragon, would Anne be portrayed as the totally innocent and blameless maiden set upon by a savage harpie?

Nope!

• The above comes from the common, spiteful attitude that Anne's marriage is of 'lesser' value than the others, and so its unravelling is 'funny' and 'deserved'.

People have decided that Anne 'stole' Henry, and so crow when she is replaced, even when they know she'll die in consequence.

Oh, so 'destroying' Katherine of Aragon's marriage is unforgivable, as marriage is a sacred thing, but when it's done to Anne that's okay as her marriage was 'worthless'?

Saying that means marriage has no inherent value, it all depends on the circumstances from which it arises.

If so, then which ones matter are up for dispute, so there's no real reason we should mind Katherine's marriage ending if we don't feel like it.

• When Henry VII is sneered at as a usurper needing Elizabeth of York to validate his reign, thus he married her for selfish reasons.

What should he have done with her then, killed her?

Being Edward's daughter means she would always be a prize for any challengers to marry, therefore too much of a liability to be the wife of another man.

The country had been in civil war for decades. Ending it required uniting Lancaster and York, and what better way to achieve that than produce an heir to the throne descended from both houses?

However much Henry gained, didn't Elizabeth benefit too, becoming queen of her homeland, as well as the country finally starting to sink into peace?

• Ricardians who insist Richard III was a peerless perfect being and all the bad things you've heard about him were the invention of Eevul Henry VII, trying desperately to blacken Dear Richard to shore up his own tenuous claim.

First of all, they talk as if Henry was motivated by malice alone, that he was just SO JEALOUS of his ORSUM predecessor, but what choice did he have?

If, as they say, Henry was hardly entitled to take the throne, then what else could he do but denounce the king he'd replace as a form of self-preservation?

Why risk the safety of your family by admitting they don't deserve to inherit?

Secondly, if the entire point was for Henry to be seen as the wise saviour of the realm, then it hardly worked out as planned, as even before Ricardian leanings became fashionable, Henry was popularly seen as a suspicious, mean-spirited miser counting his gold in the dark.

Even when he died people were happy!

• The way Edward VI is portrayed as a nasty, 'Protestant bigot' because he hates Catholics.

If Mary I hates Protestants, then oh, we mustn't think badly of her, since she was Of Her Time, Did What She Thought Was Right, Was No Worse Than Any Other Ruler Of Her Age, and so on and so on, ad nauseum.

• Edward being generally ignored in popular culture considering that, being the final child ever born to Tudor royal line and the last boy, the house died with him.

All he has is The Prince and the Pauper.

As he died so young, and in such an degrading manner, is he of no interest to fiction because there's no chance of any pornographic situations?

• Jane Grey being left off lists of monarchs, and not because of the questionable legalities, but as her reign was all too brief.

Hey, nine days is longer than any of us will ever manage.

• Self-righteous bastards who grandly proclaim Anne Boleyn's death to be 'God's will' and proof of her ultra wickedness.

Translation: I'm glad she was beheaded, so obviously God agrees with my divine judgement, since we're the same person.

Is logic beyond their capabilities?

Where was God, in Cromwell's brain inventing the charges, in Henry's hand signing the death warrant, in the executioner, in the sword?

What, are they suggesting that had God opposed it, He'd have parted the clouds and demanded Anne be spared?

Oh, because He did that all the time, and always for those figures these morons like.

Funnily enough, I bet when one of their favourites dies it'll be 'just one of them things' and no remotely the work of the Almighty.

They're asking for the impossible to occur as evidence Anne wasn't evil. They're so special only the intervention of God is worthy of changing their mind.

It was only possible for Anne to 'lure' Henry because God killed all of Katherine of Aragon's sons, didn't He?

You'd also expect Him to approve of Jane Seymour, yet He killed her too.

Inducing miscarriage and causing infection, being internal, seem more 'godly' acts than decapitation.

Or should the sword have constantly missed, or struck against a magical barrier?

God strangely didn't mind Anne's daughter enjoying a long life and reign.

It surely must've been His will that Mary couldn't produce a child, that Elizabeth wasn't beheaded, and that the Armada failed.

Oh, but that's different!