#and obviously the actor is not the end-all be-all on anything regarding any character

[adammilligan]

jabel talking about how he genuinely loved playing michael and adam together and the ideas that he brought regarding them in 15x08 weren’t just his own but also the ideas of the fans because of all the time he spent doing cons where people would ask him about what he thought michael and adam were getting up to in the cage and how that sort of fed into how he portrayed them when he finally came back to the show. i love that

[butterflydm]

pulling out bits from recent cast interviews re: s3

Several sets of interviews came out today! wotseries.com has six (!); looper.com, decider.com, & collider.com all have one each.

(speculation and spoilers for s3 and for the books through TFoH)

In Ceara's wotseries interview, we get this little hint:

WotSeries: How far along in the books are you? Ceara: I wouldn’t want to say because I read up to where we are in the scripts, and I think that would give away too much.

This implies to me that s3 is going to go a bit beyond The Shadow Rising, at least in places, because it's no secret that TSR is going to be the spine of the season.

We get more from Daniel:

WotSeries: How about any movement towards developing the relationship between Lan and Nynaeve in season three? Daniel: Season three, yes, it’s more of a build season for those two. There are some really great scenes, some stuff we’re really happy with. We do get to see some intimate stuff, not sexual stuff necessarily. So, some moments with them. But with Lan and Nynaeve, it’s this working toward what the book readers know it’s going to be. It all depends on how much time we get, how many seasons we get to do this thing. That’s a relationship that I’m really excited about and I love working with Zoë.

So, again, yeah, that really does make me feel like we're going to get one or two episodes at the start of the season where the whole crew is together and bonding. In the books, Lan and Nynaeve basically don't see each other at all between splitting up at the beginning of TSR and then eight million years later in ACoS. I do think that we might also get a reunion of at least some of the characters at the end of s3, though.

In Donal's interview:

Dónal: Well, I have big faith in Mat. I’m pretty confident in him. Regarding chatting to women.

This makes me wonder if we're getting Melindhra introduced next season. Because, uh, Mat has not really had a lot of success so far. I mean, apart from the very first episode.

Dónal: Well, there’s loads that you can look forward to in season 3. I mean, we’ve got much of it. I feel like I’ve filmed a good stretch of it, and I’ve really enjoyed the material and the new arc. This arc that I go on this season. And I think you can just expect things to be… there’s more moments with the characters to kind of learn about them in more quiet, subtle ways, more revealing ways. And I think it’s probably common knowledge that Mat does change his clothes between 2 and 3. You know, like really, we would have to ask questions and get concerned if he didn’t. I feel like I could tell you that. And I’m excited, man. I’m very happy to be wearing what I’m wearing.

Not that this should be shocking to anyone, lol, but Mat will have an arc next season! Dónal does a good job of not saying anything here though, lol. We WOULD have to be concerned if he hadn't changed clothes, yes, lol. I am excited to hear that Mat is getting some good character moments next season.

Ceara also shared this with us in the collider interview:

My script is always annotated with little quotes from the books, which I really love.

That's amazing! I think this is the first time anyone has mentioned it? That's a really neat way of giving the actors context for their lines.

We all knew that Elayne & Nynaeve would get a big story together in s3 but we get that confirmed:

We see Elayne bump into certain characters this season, but obviously, this cast is huge and growing all the time. I'm sure you cannot go into too many spoilers about Season 3, but for Ceara the actor, which characters are you really excited for Elayne to get to have more screen time with? COVENEY: I'm really excited to continue the journey that Zoë and I have started with Nynaeve and Elayne. I'm really excited to see where that goes because they've had such a rough start and were thrown into such extreme situations. So yeah, if the fans lovingly call it the Detective Agency, I'm excited to see if the business is thriving.

Natasha had two interviews that I've seen, one with decider and one with looper.

There's nothing for s3 in the decider interview that I could see, but from looper we get:

But it's not just about the evil deeds; it's also about the politics. When you come into Season 3 — without giving anything away — it opens up the mind to this more vulnerable side of Lanfear and where she's coming from. The relationship with Rand — there are scenes in Series 2 [where] you get little glimpses and nuggets of that, that there is a vulnerability there, or more reasons rather than just being dark and evil. Circling back to a previous comment, you said Lanfear knows what she wants. As Natasha, what do you think Lanfear wants? The goal in the whole realm of the world is, if I put it like … Beyoncé and Jay-Z. She wants to be the king and queen. What she wants is the Dragon and her to be together, have their kingdom, make some good choices. That's her main goal, and to shoo away anybody else that gets in the way of that.

So it sounds like we might be getting Lanfear's Big Offer (we could challenge the Creator) to Rand in s3, which would make sense.

[tortol]

as per my good friend @sepublic’s req, here are some quick notes from dana’s talk yesterday that i somehow managed to get into and wrote as it went on to remember everything, now that i’ve put my brain together and processed all the stuff dana said that y’all might find interesting :)) long post!

when i walked into the room she was just sitting on a chair eating cookies which i guess is irrelevant but it was a huge reality check because like… holy shit? dana terrace is a real human? and she’s eating cookies? i literally could not process her presence but that made it settle in a little more

first answer to a question was that after the shortening of toh she never quite got used to it and just had to suck it and learn to work with what she had. she says that she also feels uneasy by the current reality of the industry and wonders what’s in store for creatives, but hopes the landscape will change in the future

her first reaction upon learning about the shortening was to say “fuck you” and then lock herself away in her room to cry :,)

she heavily considered ending season 2 in an insane cliffhanger and then never actually finishing the show to spite disney, but was convinced by a couple of her friends (including matt braly!) to keep working on it

cancellation news came by the time eda’s requiem was being produced

she was asked about amphibia crossovers and she said that she likes to think anne and luz have crossed paths

a girl in an otter onesie thanked her for making the show. dana got emotional and cried, then got up to hug her

we were her first live event since the show aired!

she’s currently throwing ideas around and working on pitch for a new series (she’s not set on anything tho)

king was originally meant to be very tall

one of the projects she’d love to get to the most is a graphic novel

she’s also interested in writing for live action

hexside was not on her original plans (at least the version we know now) and the execs pushed her to add a school setting into the show

she found making season 1 a lot more challenging due to execs’ restraints

she would’ve liked to dive further into bump and eda’s relationship

the inspiration for belos comes from cult leaders (obviously) and matthew hopkins, as well as many of her own conservative family members, particularly those with homophobic ideals

she doesn’t like writing belos at all

when i told her my name she went “oooo” which made my soul melt from within

i asked if she was able to disclose any unused or potential plot threads she would’ve added if not for the short s3! she said that wasn’t something she could say anything about so she let me ask another question (we were talking for real and she saw my person there in the room can you fucking believe that. she passed me the mic with her hand. insane. i touched dana terrace mic)

so i asked if she was met with any challenges when pitching characters who were part of such a diverse cast, not only in regards to queerness, but also for not quite fitting into a box and just being overall very… different (neurodivergent for the homies, lol) and if the execs had any trouble understanding them

unfortunately i think because i used the word “cast” she misunderstood my question and thought i was talking about the voice acting cast of the show, and said that disney didn’t have any issues hiring diverse people and she always wanted to make sure a character’s diverse traits matched the actor, mentioning avi roque and raine as an example

when she first heard sarah-nicole robles’ audition for luz she didn’t like it because she used a voice that was too high-pitched. thank fuck people in the studio suggested she give her another chance with a more neutral voice, and that’s show she landed on her to voice luz

actually, she said voice casting was the easiest part of her job

disney is not interested in producing any more owl house content

a girl asked about huntlow and she said that was something she couldn’t answer specifically because she didn’t want to give away any spoilers (?)

even though she doesn’t regret what she wrote, she would’ve liked to see how the story would’ve progressed if luz hadn’t been admitted into hexside. she thinks not much would’ve changed; she would still be friends with gus & willow, fall in love with amity, and, eventually, slowly prove to bump how capable she is

she really, REALLY wishes she had gotten to do another episode with young raine and eda. she LOVES those two, and mentioned how much she dreams about doing a series of them as teens

she went through a period of really neglecting her health and sleeping only about two hours a night due to the stress of working on the show and her busy schedule, which really drained her, and advised everyone who wanted to become a showrunner to learn to take care of themselves even in stressful times

i told her how much the show meant to so many people and that every sleepless night had been more than worth it, that everyone was grateful for everything she’d done and keeps on doing, that her efforts had paid the fuck off. also that i hoped she was doing better lately and taking care

she wants to take a good fucking break once the show is over

i also thanked her for making lilith aroace, as no one in the room had mentioned it, and said she was glad people were able to resonate with that

she pitched another show alongside the owl house, and will show the pitch later

they took some pictures with her and the people in the room before wrapping up

respectfully, she’s so fucking fine

i don’t know what else to say man, she just really manages to light up a room. her presence is something so special and those couple hours of just chatting with her alongside other people became easily one of the best moments of my whole life. she really is incredibly passionate about what she does and so eager to help aspiring creators, which is why we were all ultimately there for. i don’t think the past two years of my life would’ve been the same if it hadn’t been for her work impacting me the way it has. i feel like the luckiest person on earth :,)

[dr3amofagame]

on c!dream and the revolution

(aka: holy shit this is going to be a bit of a mess but hopefully something in here is coherent) 

c!Dream and the L’manburg Revolution has weeeeeell kind of been talked to death, but that’s not for no reason. The L’manburg Revolution has a huge impact on the entire story for the rest of the timeline and a huge impact on c!Dream in particular--he himself references the final deal for the discs quite a few times just on his own in later parts of the timeline, not to mention the entirety of inconsolable differences being a callback to the revolution (and to vassal, but everything’s a callback to vassal when you have dream, tommy, and wilbur in a room.) The Revolution is what forms the foundation of the L’manburg mythos which then forms the foundation of so many conflicts in the server--especially involving c!Dream, as L’manburg’s villain-tyrant-monster-lizard-snake-thing in particular. 

Even so, a lot of people tend to have a lot of different opinions on c!Dream’s motivations during the Revolution. This post is meant to be an exploration of my thoughts on the matter (forgive me for the lack of actual timestamped sources I’m lazy) especially regarding three main points:

1. c!Dream had specific in-universe reasons for going against L’manburg that are referenced before the revolution and after it 

 2. c!Dream went to war with L’manburg because he largely thought that it was inevitable 

 3. c!Dream went into the war with L’manburg knowing that he would concede to c!Wilbur in the end and give them what they wanted

To start with point 1), I’ve seen it pretty commonly asserted that c!Dream didn’t actually have a particular reason to fight in the Revolution in-universe and his actions can be explained away by the ccs/actors knowing that an actual war would be the best For Content. And while I agree that the “for content” angle is an important angle to consider when we speak about this conflict, especially considering the roleplay as it would come to exist wasn’t really as established of a construct yet, to say that c!Dream had no in-universe motivations at all is...a gross oversimplification, especially when these people are often the same ones that I see taking L’manburg’s stated motivations of Peace and Freedom and Liberation at face value. 

I think there's a lot of debate on a lot of different factors surrounding the revolution, but I also think it's important to consider that like, while obviously the rp wasn't quite as developed at that point in time, that doesn't mean that c!Dream was played as a character without any motivation at all. For example, in that first conversation between c!Dream and c!Wilbur [x], I think it's important to note that c!Dream 1. expresses doubt abt c!Wilbur's whole schtick with L’manburg and DOES seem genuinely peeved by c!Wilbur's arbitrary rule setting and whole "we're doing this against tyranny" deal, even though he does make a pretty deliberate point of FOLLOWING the rules that wilbur sets (until he breaks one (1) leaf block as an expression of rebellion, which is in itself very interesting) and 2. very deliberately calls out c!Wilbur's whole L’manburg deal as something he's unsure of as being something that the people in L’manburg actually want and agree with--see his asking c!Tommy and c!Tubbo if they actually want to “totally break off from the SMP and are okay with L’manburg and never leaving L’manburg again”, as c!Wilbur had just stated (paraphrased, but anyway), and then obviously taking note of both c!Tommy and c!Tubbo's doubt afterwards.

From the very beginning of L’manburg's conception, I think it's fair to say that c!Dream has Visible Doubts about c!Wilbur's whole schtick that served as a foundation of its creation. Were those ideological differences the sole driving force behind his decision to go to war? No, absolutely not. c!Dream was not fighting the revolution just in an effort to idk, ~save~ the L’manburgians or anything I’m not trying to say that. but c!Dream does, from the very beginning, take issue with the specific division that c!Wilbur created. He prods at c!Wilbur's claims about a separate server with separate rules. He specifically asks if c!Tommy and c!Tubbo are okay with "L’manburg and only L’manburg" as c!Wilbur seemed to be implying was all they needed. He STARTS the conversation considerably more lighthearted than at its end--the first thing he says about L’manburg is a fucking dick joke, for god's sake. There's even something you can say about c!Wilbur making rules and then SHOWING dream that the rules are arbitrary, because before dream makes a deliberate Point of breaking the leaf block to symbolize his irritation with L’manburg's rule setting and the whole idea of L’manburg in the first place, c!Wilbur states that they really respect the foliage of the place and want not a single block out of place while breaking leaves himself! 

And of course, we all know about the table speech. There are arguments to be made about server ownership and entitlement that have been discussed before and could be touched on here, but once again--c!Dream's issue was about the division created. Not the usage of the table (or, on the server, the land) but the claiming of it as someplace “Separate.” When he expresses that everyone can use the table, he's not against the idea of individual or community ownership in itself, as can be clearly seen by the amount of properties on the server that belonged to one or more people. However, what he WAS against was the idea of people claiming a piece of land as their as in, their server, which meant that they could set whatever rules they wanted on it no matter the detriment to other people on the server. which is exactly what was done in L’manburg. It wasn't about the ownership, it was about claiming a part of a house As Their Own House because by stating that L’manburg was a "separate" server, they could also come up with whatever rules they wanted. such as pvp-is-off-so-take-off-your-armor, and you're-not-in-the-whitelist, etc. 

And like, again. I think people can have different perspectives and opinions on the table speech and how right he was and whatever, but like the table speech was NOT long after the revolution, and dream made it plenty clear that people could use the land at will before L’manburg’s creation. Hell, AFTER the revolution people could still y’know, kinda use the land at will, when he could've (according to c!Wilbur's original plans and words) restricted L’manburgians from leaving L’manburg. And again this is explicit--c!Dream says it himself to c!Skeppy in the table speech, and we see how everyone was using the land however they wanted at this point in time as well. 

And i think like, later on, when the characters are more established, every time c!Dream talks abt L’manburg makes it pretty clear that he was fighting abt it for more reasons than just "well he felt like fighting shit." He clearly dislikes L’manburg and disagreed with the division it created fundamentally. Obviously, the way you interpret all of this can be pretty different ,, but I think it's always been pretty clear that c!Dream does like. Disagree with L’manburg from the very beginning at the very least, and that goes into his decision to eventually go to war with the place.

Still, though, I don’t think these ideological differences are the most important reasoning behind his decision to fight in the Revolution in the first place. Which brings me to point 2), which is to say...from c!Dream’s perspective, honestly, war felt pretty goddamn inevitable?

From c!Dream’s perspective, he had no reason to believe that L’manburg wasn’t gunning for war. Honestly, he has every reason to believe the opposite? The FIRST time he interacted with L’manburg it was to c!Wilbur goading c!Tommy to shout “war words” at him. They were dressed in army uniforms. The entire side of L’manburg was allegedly built on a foundation of opposing c!Dream. They clearly didn’t shy away from conflict, considering their actions the day before had been basically trying their best to scam the shit out of people on the server and ending up chased down for their efforts. The ideals of L’manburg being this idea of like, Injustice and Freedom and Liberation From Oppression does not paint the idea of them being like willing to patiently come to a compromise or engage c!Dream in good faith like, at all. When c!Dream actually comes to L’manburg to try and have a discussion, c!Wilbur makes it plenty clear that compromise isn’t going to be an option, acts like L’manburg’s legitimacy is an assured thing, uses his act of legitimacy to impose on c!Dream’s behavior (mostly by inventing all kinds of arbitrary rules for him to follow until the ‘don’t touch our foliage’ makes him lose his patience and leave). None of this suggests any willingness for L’manburg to actually make concessions or compromise. 

And that, in itself, limits c!Dream’s options. If he concedes, then he’s folding to external pressure without putting up a fight, which sets a precedent. Again, from his perspective, c!Wilbur is a total stranger! He’s this guy that he’s literally never met before that managed to turn half of c!Dream’s server--as in, friends and acquaintances and neighbors--against him in a “country” that is explicitly founded in opposition against c!Dream by someone he knows nothing about. A country that has framed itself as existing directly against what c!Dream wants, has referred to him as a tyrant, and has turned this idea of fighting against him into a moral issue--limiting their willingness to backdown or compromise in any way whatsoever. No matter whether or not c!Wilbur was actually gunning for war, c!Dream had every reason to think that that was the intention--they wrote a Declaration of Independ(a)nce, for god’s sake. Obviously this is getting meta but if they’re making relentless comparisons to Hamilton Act I which is...entirely about a war, that’s hardly a point in favor for them actually just wanting to sit down at a table with some tea to talk things out. (Not to mention how they run onto DreamSMP land to attack c!Alyssa as a unit like, right after all of this.) 

As far as c!Dream is concerned, giving L’manburg what they want at this point without putting up a fight, just rolling over and showing his belly to their every demand is...dangerous? He’s facing a group of people that include people that, again, he’s lived with for months who have suddenly decided that standing against him is some kind of moral statement, who are slandering him and calling him a tyrant. He’s being talked about like some kind of dragon to slay--of course he’s not particularly inclined to just give them what they want. The Revolution establishes DreamSMP as people you don’t want to fight. c!Dream establishes himself as someone that you should think twice about antagonizing. And we know this works because c!Wilbur does get more cautious after the Revolution--he’s not quite as willing to go against c!Dream as directly as he was when he literally showed up out of nowhere to call c!Dream a tyrant. Through the Revolution, c!Dream successfully discourages another war in the future by making it too costly for L’manburg to pursue the next time they want something out of DreamSMP (which wouldn’t necessarily be the case if he just conceded the first time around, considering as far as c!Dream is concerned, L’manburg’s initial reaction to wanting something w/ their whole “independence” schtick was to make war preparations). Instead of seeming like a pushover, which in his mind possibly could’ve emboldened c!Wilbur further, he establishes himself as someone fair (see: his insisting on listening to L’manburg’s rules even during the literal war, not entering into L’manburg’s borders to plant the TNT, something they both concede, as well as during the intimidation campaign w/ c!Sapnap) but intimidating as an opponent. 

All of that being said, though, it’s worth considering that c!Dream does, in effect, give L’manburg what they want in the end. Which is part of what I want to consider with my final point here: c!Dream always knew that he was going to give L’manburg independence. 

And this is a fact! We know this because during the preparations for the war, in Punz’s L’manburg Revolution videos, we see c!Dream stating that he will give L’manburg technical independence before the war even begins. Which i find. Fascinating. Because like obviously given c!Dream's strategic ability (final control room + just general preparation wise), obviously Dream SMP was at a great advantage. (Interestingly enough, I will NOT actually argue that PVPwise they actually outranked L’manburg by THAT much. When the war was declared, it was actually a 3v5, considering c!Eret had not yet defected and c!George had not yet joined DreamSMP's side. This was at the same general time where c!Fundy and c!Sapnap, who would later be a formidable opponent against Dream and Technoblade alike, were about evenly matched in a PVP duel! Like DreamSMP would've still likely panned out on top in terms of straight up PVP, but it would've been a much closer battle with a much higher chance of loss of life on the DreamSMP side.)

On that same note, i think it's interesting to note (if you watch Punz's pov of the revolution videos) HOW CONCERNED c!dream was the ENTIRE time for any losses on his side. Like this guy was freaking out if someone on the DreamSMP like got hit by an arrow kind of concerned. He was worried about c!Eret in the crossfire of the final control room. Honestly speaking, he probably lost more hearts from that goddamn poison pot than like the entirety of the DreamSMP side during the war. L’manburg was during a time where Tubbo and Tommy could reasonably defeat Dream in a 1v2, given certain situations, and there was that whole Dream versus Tommy, Tubbo, and Sapnap 1v3--but that's when Dream way outgeared them and he WAS worn down and DID lose.

(Compare to like much later on where Dream could like 50/50 1v3 people in full diamond with nothing but an axe and shield.)

And whether or not L’manburg actually like, could’ve outgeared or outpvped DreamSMP (which. I mean. Like, c!Tubbo had villagers--from experience, it really doesn’t take that long to get decent enchants + gear from villagers even if you’re just one person, just go to town on a bunch of trees for a couple hours), the idea of L’manburg as a threat doesn’t even matter as much as whether or not c!Dream saw them as a threat. I feel like I’ve seen a lot of opinions on this matter that boil down to “well clearly L’manburg wasn’t a threat so clearly c!Dream didn’t see them as one so clearly fighting L’manburg was just about killing people for his own ego” which...absolutely contradicts how c!Dream himself faces this conflict. I think it's fair to say that based on his words and actions, c!Dream did see them as a significant threat to his/his friends' safety in the war. He has backup plans upon backup plans, he's very anxious about the DreamSMP side’s health bars throughout the revolution, he specifically worries about them losing health and dying in the final control room like. Many times.

All of that being said, c!Dream goes into the Revolution knowing that he'll have to grant L’manburg independence, specifically because he knows they wont give up. He says this very explicitly. And like, I think it's like. again. Important to note that c!Dream could've like forced L’manburg into a corner by like idk repeatedly spawnkilling them, or sieging them, until they give into his commands or whatever right. Like it was a war. He definitely could've forced them to surrender on his terms.

HOWEVER, what we actually see is c!Dream repeatedly calling them to surrender at like every possible turn. Before the war, during it, whatever. White flags was an obvious attempt to intimidate, but at the same time you can only demand someone to surrender so many times before you're showing your hand.

And it’s like--war, when you boil it down a Lot, is basically an extended game of chicken. This is very oversimplified, but at the end of the day what matters is that you have to decide how far you're willing to go and how far the other side is willing to go and figure out if you're willing to accept the necessary losses. And it's also important to note that from c!Dream's perspective, L’manburg was never going to give up.

Whether or not that is true is once again, debatable. But from c!Dream's perspective WE CAN SEE that c!Dream thinks that c!Wilbur + co. were never going to give up. With the retroactive addition of canon lives then yeah you could probably state that c!dream thought that they were going to keep going even if it permakilled them. c!Wilbur makes the "we would rather die" speech after the final control room. Obviously retroactively applying things like canon lives gets finicky (and believe me, I DONT LIKE IT EITHER,) but if you're going to retroactively apply the final control room as killing all of L’manburg in order to essentially end the conflict in one blow instead of simply removing their gear as was the explicit goal of that ambush, then yeah, I think it's fair to apply the same statement of canon lives and their full ramifications on what c!Wilbur says here as well. c!Dream enters a war he knows that he will, by a matter of speaking, lose--because at the end of the day, he wasn't willing to go as far as L’manburg., From his point of view. he was not willing to keep the war going when lmanburg was, because L���manburg stated that they wouldn't give up (and he PREDICTED they would state that they wouldn't give up) no matter what the cost. 

So he very literally puts his life on the line (when doing so shouldn't have been necessary otherwise because like, he was winning the war) because he was willing to end the conflict at a great personal cost to himself. Why? Why would c!Dream decide to risk his life to participate in a duel that could literally nullify EVERYTHING he did so far in an instant in the war by literally granting L’manburg independence? And then, after winning the duel, why grant L’manburg independence anyway? If tommy won that duel (which he EASILY could've -- it was a 1v1 bow duel when both people were one-shot), then L’manburg would've won the war. Hell, EVEN AFTER THEY LOST THE DUEL, they stated they won the war for a long time. c!Dream could've fucking annihilated them!! They had no supplies. Why grant them "technical independence" ??

Like, what, all of this for the discs? The discs really did not matter that much at that point in time--the disc war had been over, for god’s sake-- and c!Tommy would literally blackmail him to steal ‘em back like less than a month later. And, like, there was really nothing stopping him from demanding the discs as reparations for the war anyway. What was L’manburg gonna do if he just enforced the borders and kept killing them unless they gave him shit yk? L’manburg got soundly beat in a war! c!Dream had no reason to put his own goddamn life on the line to give them A POTENTIAL SHOT AT VICTORY. 

The only reasoning that makes sense for c!Dream here is the reasoning he himself gives for basically every decision he makes in this war, from the demands to surrender to the Final Control Room to the agreeing to the duel to the granting them technical independence for the discs even after c!Tommy lost the duel. And that’s that he knew that they wouldn’t give up. Before the war began, c!Dream knew that he would have to give them independence. At the time, the justification was likely along the lines of well, he couldn’t permanently kill them because it’s MINECRAFT, so they would’ve just kept dragging the conflict out until he gave in. With the retroactive addition of canon lives, though, his hesitance reads much more along the lines of being generally unwilling to go through with killing L’manburg entirely during the war, which demanded that he make the concession of giving them what they wanted. 

And, again, this is all from c!Dream's perspective. Whether or not all of this is like, True objectively is a different matter. Would L’manburg have surrendered if he didn't give them a way out and kept pressing? Would c!Wilbur have stopped before everyone on his side lost all their canon lives? Maybe. But from c!Dream's perspective, the only way to end it was to grant them the independence they wanted (even you know, in the bastardized form that it was, not that it mattered because L’manburg ended up being treated as an entirely independent and separate entity ANYWAY but I digress).

So that's what he did.

And, of course, this paved the way for the rest of the story. The mythos of L’manburg was established. It all goes back to these decisions on both sides, in a lot of ways--the discs, c!Tommy and c!Dream and the duel on the path, c!Wilbur overseeing, heroes and villains and revolutions and tyrants. In a lot of ways, this is where things began to unravel, this is the story that would take until the (c!discduo) Finale to address and dismantle. c!Dream’s reasonings behind his decisions in the Revolution are logical, complex, and consistent with his character and motivations--and they’re also, in a lot of ways, his undoing. 

[celluloidbroomcloset]

https://celluloidbroomcloset.tumblr.com/post/735562286934245376/yknow-and-props-to-jenkins-for-seeing-the

Sorry but I have to rant about this a bit. Not about your addition though! It's entirely about the Izzy canyon op's clear intentions with that post. You don't have to post this, I just need to get it out of my system. 😅

I just love how the canyon is trying to turn fans against Jenkins. Sorry canyon op, it was always a romcom and Ed and Stede were always a real love story. Jenkins might've changed his mind on some of the details, but it was always a queer romance. Every other one of the collected articles and quotes they helpfully linked shows that very clearly, so thanks for that canyon op.

Sorry again canyon op, but that one quote doesn't suddenly turn the show into a barely dodged queerbait either. A queer romance possibly not having a storybook happy ending in its original plan does not mean it's "not a real love story" or anything resembling queerbait. (somebody please take that word away from the internet, I am begging!) What it is is a sweet love story in a fun romcom and he even gave it a clear happily ever after ending intentionally in case they aren't renewed.

And yes, the cast's influence on their characters and their stories is awesome and wonderful and at Jenkins' suggestion. They wouldn't have been allowed even a tiny fraction of the freedom Jenkins gave them to shape their characters on most other shows. That actors, directors, writers, and showrunner could all work together so closely and so well to create this incredible show is very telling of the kind of showrunner Jenkins is and it's a rare one.

Jenkins may not be perfect, but that one quote doesn't suddenly make him less of an ally or any less amazing for putting this fun little queer as all hell show into our lives! It doesn't make the show any less joyful! I'd say it makes it more so for having this straight man, as good an ally as he is, see and realize what it would mean to people to have this thing and willfully change his plans to make it even better for us. He didn't have to give Ed and Stede such a wonderful ending this season and yet he did! He did it because he wants them, and us, to be happy.

I'm sorry your blorbo died, canyon op, but Jenkins is not "losing the other half of the fandom" now. The canyon aren't even half of the fandom to begin with! It's a very loud minority that I wish would just leave the rest of us to enjoy the show in peace instead of trying to turn us all against it. 😒

Lol - you know what’s hilarious? I honestly didn’t look at the source of that post. I’d heard some of this stuff before and was like “oh, yeah, it sounds like Jenkins changed focus and it worked really well!” Because…that’s the nature of art, especially a collaborative art like film and TV, and it seems clear that other writers, the performers, etc. all helped to shift focus, and Jenkins himself saw the potential and went with it, even likely listened to the queer people on the show to help guide it. Which is…normal and good?

I dunno what this show might do for season 3, and it’s perfectly possible that they sacrifice good will for some strange narrative about-face, but that will have fuck-all to do with Izzy actually being the main character and everything to with…everything else on the show.

In regard to the whole weird Izzy discourse…I barely poked my head into this fandom during the first season, but obviously have done a lot more than that now. And I was immediately just confused by the cadre who seem to think Izzy was the main character. You mean…the angry homophobic white dude who tried to kill one of our leads multiple times and then sent our other lead into a suicidal spiral by telling him to stop acting so gay? THAT dude? Isn’t he, like, the villain?

I dig what they managed with Izzy and I was so happy to actually care about him instead of just hating him, but his narrative function is to advance the Stede/Ed relationship. He’s less independent, narratively, than most of the Revenge crew. His death was sad and it made sense. * shrugs*

I’m still honestly a bit concerned that ANYONE looked at Izzy in Season 1 and went “that’s my guy!” That’s…disturbing, my dudes.

[esther-dot]

Hiii! Do you ever see GoT writers, actors or even D&D confessing their plan of Jonsa or the reason Jonsa parallel Ned&Cat and even Jaime&Cersei? Something in the line of: okay, this was the plan but we changed our minds because X. That would give me soooo much peace. The foreshadowing and parallels were so obvious it makes me anxious when I remember the real ending.... even if they never get together. But what happens in between.

I would love an explanation too! I sometimes try to put myself in D&D's shoes and imagine what their platonic explanation could be for all the parallels/contrasts they created for Jonsa, and I actually think that the Cersei and Jaime connections would be the easiest to rationalize, but the fact that they also paralleled them with Braime is what makes it seem like it wasn't just a healthy sibling duo in contrast to Cersei/Jaime, it wasn't just about showing us the difference between Cersei and Sansa as leaders, it felt romantic! Especially as that convo carried through to the ending, Jon and Jaime were being paralleled and juxtaposed, both choosing their sisters over someone else, but Jaime choosing his "evil queen," Jon rejecting his, which means, you can't say it was accidental, they were intentionally doing that in s7-8.

Obviously, in the books the NedCat 2.0 idea will be a thing, we've already gotten comments about Jon and Sansa individually looking like the og, so D&D inserting that with the redux of NedCat scenes, ok, not necessarily romantic, maybe just a nod to the books, maybe they overdid it, but their motives were pure. Except, they included the choking LF scene. Jealously, rage, desire to kill. Sure, of course, LF deserved it, but then they also had Sansa be angry and jealous in s8, and again, there are platonic explanations for some of it, but it crosses the line, particularly in the feast scene. At that point it feels like it's more, something else.

(And let's not even talk about the parallels with Robb and Talisa, Sam x Gilly, or Gendrya.)

But will they ever tell us anything? Well, let's say TWOW comes out in a year or two and Jonsa is a thing in the books. We absolutely would have the entire fanbase revisiting Jonsa's odd chemistry in the show and rethinking things, and I bet, yeah, we'd finally get a reporter who would ask a useful question regarding the Jonsa scenes. Or, say Kit goes for it in Jon's spin-off, we'd definitely get some new insight into the acting choices he made in s6-8.

Absent of that, I can't imagine getting confirmation? Mainly because, it's not just an unpopular ship, it's hated. Dany stans, Targ stans, Jon stans, I saw all of them taking comfort in the midst of their rage and grief that at least Jonsa didn't happen. Any hint that show Jonsa in some form was real is probably the only thing that would make people hate the last season/finale more. Considering how disgusting our fandom is (they harassed child actors because they hated the characters they played, they ship the actors with other actors, bully them off social media, stalk them...) I don't see the upside of bringing it up and there is a big downside.

If they had the cover of Martin's books or a new show, D&D could say they didn't do it because it was weird but here's how they hinted at it or Kit could say it grossed him out but he tried to subtly include it. Presented that way, people could be sympathetic to them, not blame them, so I could see that. But if they just announced, "Yep, Jon had Targy feelings for Sansa," I don’t think people would take it well!

[simnostalgia]

can’t lie dude there’s a massive difference between somebody having a photo of their teen sim in an underwear and “proship” where people openly support incestuous and pedophilic relationships. between you and me (and i’m saying this on anon bc i don’t want to get involved with any of this 😭) all of this is dumb but there’s a massive difference between falsely accusing somebody over THE SIMS and somebody who thinks it’s fine to look at art of a grown ass adult fucking a child because it’s fiction. your concerns are valid but you’re getting that mess of discourse mixed in with this for nothing. had a fun time on your blog while it lasted tho

super long rant but...

I've said this before and people got mad at me but like... I don't disagree with anything you're saying honestly. Like, OBVIOUSLY a full grown adult shouldn't be fucking a child. That's FUCKED UP.

But I mean, clearly the people who said that didn't think so? I mean, isn't that sort of the problem with this sort of thinking? Everyone thinks that THEIR extremely specific idea of what is and is not reasonable to assume is the right one.

I mean, take furries for instance. Doesn't anyone find it weird that we don't target furries that way? I mean, you may argue that "Well, anthro animals DON'T exist so we're not worried about protecting them" But we've seen SEVERAL groups of furries that have actually ended up being active zoophiles but not many groups of fanfic writers who were actually pedophiles working as some sort of cabal.

Like, I'm not trying to throw furries under the bus. But why do we all assume that we understand that it's harmless as they understand the difference between fiction and reality?

I'm not arguing that it's RIGHT or WRONG, I'm arguing that there seems to be no cohesion in what most of the 'progressive sphere' regards as being kosher.

Why is it that we assume someone writing that sort of fiction is some sort of deviant and not just someone who want to see the actors portraying those characters together and yet assume differently for any other kink?

I think there is an ulterior motive to cause bouts of accusations and recrimination in queer spaces and that young queer people were wrong made to believe that this would benefit them, when really this rhetoric just feeds alt-right orgs like Gays Against Groomers.

They know what they're doing. And many progressives in our spaces don't want to hear it because accusations have become a good way to get rid of those you don't like with flimsy evidence and even flimsier arguments. Once someone asked me to help them get rid of @blueheavensims because he was making poseboxes that were 'kind of rapey' and when I was like "'would you be willing to help me contact that advertisers for hunter420x's website, who has actual animations of children being molested" she was like "no, sorry".

and while I'm not naming names, this is someone that many of you know and respect as a simmer with 'good values'.

This isn't about what you should and shouldn't be allowed to write because honestly that was never the issue. It was about giving young progressives the rhetorical tools to destroy themselves for petty interpersonal drama while the right reaps the reward of figuring out how to get queers to accuse THEMSELVES of being pedophiles by co-opting progressive language.

Everytime I see a 20 year old with a 'dni proship' i assume its someone who would spit on an actual SA victim before helping them. You just pretend to care about this shit because it makes you feel like a better person when you're trying to ruin someone's life.

TL;DR: Write whatever the fuck you want. The people who will get mad at you generally care less about you doing it than how it looks. They'll tear down the person who said something they don't like over the actual powerful pederast every time. It's all performative bullshit.

Like, it's not that hard to see what most of you are doing, you're NOT that slick.

[ot3]

Hello! I was watching the PLvsAA stream yesterday, and you said to ask after the stream to elaborate on your thoughts on Phoenix having, I think it was attachment issues vs abandonment issues? Would you be able to explain your thoughts on that? I'm very curious, and I figured Tumblr was a decent place to ask. Only if you want to, of course!

ok i just Scoured shu takumi's interviews on gyakuten saiban library to try and find the quote i was looking for and could not find it. which is disappointing to me personally because now i feel insane because i know it exists somewhere, i don't believe I imagined this one because it stuck with me very immediately and very specifically. but at the end of the day the specific quote doesn't really provide any too necessary context.

at the end of the day 'attachment issues' vs 'abandonment issues' is probably really granular and nitpicky, but i mean. well. i love being granular and nitpicky about characterization. i definitely thought of phoenix as having abandonment issues for a long time but flipping the script to 'attachment issues' cleared up a lot about my interpretation of his character for me, so im going to type some paragraphs at you now

like to me the critical differences between the two are that 1. when you think of someone who has 'abandonment issues' you probably assume a certain amount of baggage regarding past experiences contributing to those feelings. or at least, i do. but as i've said plenty in the past i really don't think phoenix has any significant shit going on in his backstory. i don't think he has ever Been abandoned by anyone, really. and 2. you can be attached to things that aren't people, but abandonment is a purely interpersonal phenomenon.

here's this other takumi quote about phoenix that everyone is probably familiar with by this point:

Interviewer: It’s surprising to learn he wanted to become an actor. Perhaps he’s actually really susceptible to fads and things like that?

Takumi: I think he’s just the type who’ll go straight for something and stick to it once he’s convinced of something. Like the type of person he falls for (laugh).

obviously everyone focuses on this for being pretty gay. and like it is. lets make no mistakes about that but it's also just a generally really interesting little tidbit. when phoenix stumbles upon something or someone he likes or wants he will pretty much pursue it unquestioningly and then maintain that emotional attachment to it. and that's really the only place any of his drive comes from. when phoenix doesn't have, like someone or something to be providing this external motivation he just sort of stops doing things. not because he doesn't feel capable of doing anything, or feels unsafe or scared, like how you might feel if you were abandoned, but because he just doesnt Want to do anything

like. with abandonment issues theres a sort of reciprocal nature to that kind of interpersonal dynamic. the other party's behavior has a lot of influence over the feelings of the character in question, for better or worse. but phoenix's attachment issues are at the end of the day kind of an inherently one-sided thing. phoenix is the one bringing any and all emotional baggage into these situations. it's on him. he's obsessive about stuff, and he doesn't really need to be getting anything back from the other side to maintain that. probably indicated most clearly with just everything about his relationship to edgeworth in aa1. dude was truly insane for that shit. i love it for him specifically because it was such a wild and bizarre thing to do.

so like as much as phoenix was obsessed with/attached to edgeworth he was also super attached to doing it in one very specific way. he HAD to become a lawyer. and his attachment to that idea of being a lawyer and what specifically that means for him is a pretty significant throughline for the rest of the series. i think it would also be reasonable to extrapolate that indulging in these obsessive tendencies is how phoenix was able to work on the jurist system. doing that kind of slow, tedious, academic work is pretty atypical of phoenix who by his own admission wont even read any law books. but we know with the right motivation and investment phoenix was able to go from ditzy law student to practicing attorney in just a few years.

imo something else thats super interesting with this lens on his behavior is his relationship with kristoph. theres a lot of different takes on this character dynamic but i think we can all agree that theyre obsessed with each other. whereas you Could read the way phoenix interacts with edgeworth or maya or trucy or even iris as relating to a desire for companionship and a fear of losing that, resulting in a willingness to go out on a limb for people and believe in people, that all falls apart with kristoph. it doesnt make sense to view phoenix's attachment to kristoph as being rooted in a fear of abandonment in a way you could argue for the other characters. it kind of only makes sense if you view phoenix's attachment to kristoph as sort of arbitrarily intense and existing for its own sake, rather than related to any specific desires or outcomes.

a scene i constantly find myself rereading because i'm so obsessed with it is the bit in turnabout succession where phoenix visits kristoph in solitary. kristoph has already admitted to and been convicted of zak's murder, after trying to frame phoenix to it and ruining his reputation. their business is pretty much concluded. everything is already in place for phoenix to get his name cleared. but phoenix still isn't willing to let it go. he is desperate to understand kristoph's motivations on a personal level just because of the investment he has in this relationship regardless of the fact that its a fucked up and bad relationship. he's decided this is something important to him and there's not much of a way for any outside factors to change that.

so. yeah. thats it. kind of. i genuinely dont know if anyone else is going to vibe with this particular interpretation but this is how i see phoenix at the very least.

[cf56]

Revisiting the Scratchansniff-Warners relationship

Last year I wrote an analysis of the Warner siblings' relationship with their p-sychiatrist, Dr. Scratchansniff. I outlined how their relationship progressed episode-by-episode in the original series and how it all inexplicably went downhill by the end. That post was more of an overview than anything really in-depth, and in the time since I've done some more thinking on this topic, and I think there's more to explore here. (epic Outer Wilds reference)

So, welcome to part 4 of "overanalyzing the Warners". Well, welcome to part 1 of part 4. This writeup became so long that I decided to split it into two parts.

Part 1: Scratchansniff as a character, why he sucks as a psychiatrist, and what he should've done instead

First, I want to really get in deep with the character and concept of Scratchansniff. The first surface-level thing you might notice about him is his really juvenile name. Everyone in the show treats it like a completely normal name, with the Warners nicknaming him "Scratchy", so if you watch the show it also starts to sound normal to you. This doesn't really have any deeper meaning. I just like to mention it because I find it funny reading and writing serious stories with a man named "scratch and sniff" in them.

Well, maybe it's not entirely meaningless. It does give some insight into what his character was initially supposed to be. He is a man who takes himself and his surroundings completely seriously, but he isn't a serious character. He's a normal, mundane person who finds himself trapped in a cartoon world with extremely absurd situations happening to him on a regular basis. I've seen him compared to Squidward in this way, and the comparison is extremely apt. They are both characters who take themselves seriously in a world that is completely non-serious, regularly interacting with other characters that have no regard for rationality or common sense. In doing so, they often find themselves actually acting more childish than the childlike characters around them, making a fool of themselves as they try to project some sense of normalcy on a world that rejects it out of hand. Their appearances are even quite similar, with their thin figures, big bald heads, and big noses. I wouldn't be surprised if Squidward was in some ways directly inspired by Scratchansniff.

Now, there's a question I've been throwing around in my head, and I can't come to a solid conclusion one way or the other. Is Scratchansniff meant to be incompetent? The answer that immediately comes to mind is, yes, obviously. He does a terrible job with the Warners, after all. We'll come back to that later.

But I was watching the first episode of the show for this post. Besides the intro, Scratchansniff is the first Animaniacs character ever introduced. The first segment of the first episode starts with him meeting with his own psychiatrist, telling his life story. He says he was "one of the most successful psychoanalysts in all of Hollywood." He tells the story of helping countless stars on the Warner Bros. lot, and he clearly says he loved his job. The question can still be asked, though, are we meant to take him at face value? He's shown talking to Ronald Reagan, in his actor days, who tells him about dreams he's having where he becomes president. Scratchansniff writes in his notes- "Delusions of Grandeur, incurable". It's clearly just a joke, I know. But taking it seriously for a second, it seems like he did a terrible job at helping his patient. To immediately write someone off as incurable at the slightest hint of a strange dream, a dream that isn't even all that strange? If that's all it takes to make him give up on a patient, how can he possibly deal with the more serious cases?

He continues, saying that the stars told him all their problems, their secrets, their pain. "It was so much fun!", he says. Ok, hold on. Is a psychiatrist supposed to take pleasure in knowing the secrets and pain of their patients? It seems like Scratchansniff may have been in the business for the wrong reasons. One might even start to think that he deliberately doesn't help his patients as much as he can so he can get more juicy secrets out of them.

Scratchansniff is next shown reacting to the moment the Warners escape the tower. I honestly haven't seen the first episode much, or at least not this part, so what I saw next surprised me. I was always under the impression that Scratchansniff first met the Warners in the 90's, when Plotz made him try to dezanitize them. But what is the first thing the Warners do when they escape the tower? Like, literally the very first thing? They race over to Scratchansniff's office and yell "Did you miss us?" Scratchansniff replies "I hardly even know you." He hardly even knows them. Which means he did know them, at least a little, before the 90's, before they escaped the tower for good. He goes on to ask if they know who he is, and Yakko immediately answers correctly with his full name and title.

Scratchansniff had been at Warner Brothers for 50 years according to him. Quick math says he started there around 1943. It's known that the Warners did escape briefly on a few occasions between the 1930's, when they were locked up, and the 1990's, when they escaped. So, at some point during one of those escapes, the Warners met Scratchansniff, and they seem to have immediately taken a liking to him, as he's the first one they visit when they escape again. Was it just a chance encounter? Was Scratchansniff their psychiatrist before the 90's? No way to know for sure, but what we do know is that their relationship extends farther back than is generally thought, possibly decades farther back.

Soon they start their first session, which goes disastrously. And this is where Scratchansniff's lack of real psychiatry skills comes into focus. He is vague with his wording, unclear in his demands, and very quick to anger, even when the Warners are only being mild annoyances at worst. At one point he says that he will say a word and he wants Yakko to say the first word that comes to mind in response. And Yakko does it, exactly how he was asked to, but the only problem is he starts a little early. Instead of simply adapting to the situation and starting the exercise while Yakko's being compliant, Scratchansniff becomes furious, calls Yakko a "stupid kid", and throws him out of his office. What a great way to start a healthy, trusting doctor-patient relationship.

He is at one point shown studying child psychology to help him treat the Warners. And I think this shows one of his major shortcomings- he's not a child psychiatrist. He treats the major stars of Hollywood. How many of those are children? He has no experience with children, especially toon children. He tries to approach things like he would with adults, expecting a calm and insightful conversation, when any child psychiatrist would know that doesn't always work with kids.

So, back to the big question. Is Scratchansniff bad at his job? Well, I'm going to hit you with a cop out answer. You can interpret the evidence however you want- take it at face value or dismiss them as the clear jokes they are- but the truth is it doesn't matter how good of a psychiatrist Scratchansniff is for most people. For the Warners, he's an awful fit. He has several shortcomings in this regard:

He's not a child psychiatrist.

He's out of touch. Scratchansniff had been a psychiatrist for 50 years. Do you know how much that field changed from 1943 to 1993? They were still doing lobotomies in 1943. Regardless of how well he's kept up with the times, some of his techniques are surely out of date. Not to mention the fact that, yes, he's still practicing in 2022.

He had become complacent with his work and was extremely overconfident in his own abilities. More on this in a second.

He had too short of a fuse and was too uber-serious to see the Warners' mild annoyances as what they really were: just playful mild annoyances.

Scratchansniff sees himself as a super successful psychiatrist, and so does most of the world. I don't think he ever was- I think those are delusions of grandeur. I think Scratchansniff had an "in" with Warner Bros.- maybe he knew someone high up in the company, or maybe his mentor was the previous psychiatrist there and recommended him for the job. Once he got that job, a job he truly enjoyed for seemingly the wrong reasons, he never looked back. He never dared to challenge himself with any truly difficult cases. He never left his comfort zone. When the Warners showed up, they turned his whole world upside down. Instead of the calm monotony he enjoyed, now he had to deal with constant zaniness and three children who were a bit of a harder nut to crack than all of his previous patients. He resented them for this, at least at the beginning.

The main counter argument to all of this is that the Warners are simply impossible cases. There is no curing them, so how could Scratchansniff be blamed for failing to? I don't see it this way. Yes, the Warners are deliberately annoying and difficult. But they're far from impossible patients.

The Warners are extremely intelligent. They are self-aware. Their only big problem is that they're poorly socially adjusted, as would be expected from three orphans who were mistreated from birth and never had a single trustworthy adult figure to guide them in their lives. Frankly, their problems seem to be fairly obvious and self-evident, even to an untrained layperson like me. Any psychiatrist worth their salt would pick up on this immediately and have a field day with patients like this. Scratchansniff doesn't.

The Warners aren't even that hard to make friends with. It's true that they closely guard their emotions with a thick shield of sarcasm and general mistrust toward human adults. On the other hand, it's been repeatedly shown throughout the series, original and reboot, that anyone who gives the Warners the tiniest bit of genuine affection will be instantly accepted by them. Frau Hassenfeffer, Flora Norita, Hello Nurse. They even form an attachment to Mr. Plotz, who never did anything but mistreat them. Scratchansniff has seen this happen right in front of him and he still doesn't realize it.

And it's not like the Warners don't have the motivation to improve. The Warners don't want to be outcasts. They want to be included, as I asserted in more detail in this post. So, if that's the case, why do they act the way they do? Why are they so difficult? I believe they act like outsiders because that's the only way they've ever been treated. It's similar to how I believe that Yakko plays off all affection as cheesy because it protects him from the letdown of genuinely hoping to receive affection and being denied it. The Warners play the part of annoying outsiders because that's the role they've been cast in. If they didn't play that part, they'd have to confront the reality that the reason they're disliked and shunned is simply because of who they are. It's far less painful to believe that people don't like them because they're deliberately annoying. Then it starts to feel like their choice, instead of something forced upon them unfairly (which is what it truly is).

Scratchansniff is completely oblivious to this. He takes their zany charade at face value. There are certain things you have to do as a psychiatrist if you want to solve anything more than the most surface level cases. You have to constantly be trying to dig deeper. You have to be extremely persistent, continuing to attack the problem at different angles even if the patient is being as difficult as they can be. You have to be willing to dispose of your preconceived notions, your natural emotional reactions to things, and try to truly see and understand the patient's real motives for their actions. Yes, the Warners know exactly how to push anyone's buttons to be the most annoying they can possibly be. A good psychiatrist has to rise above petty feelings like annoyance and frustration. Scratchansniff seems incapable of every single one of these things I just listed. It's like he expects every one of his patients to walk into his office as a completely healthy, mentally balanced person with only minor surface-level issues, which is the complete opposite of what he should expect in his position. So, no, the Warners are far from impossible patients. They aren't even really that difficult. There's far, far worse than them. (In terms of difficulty of treatment.)

It might seem like I'm taking this personally. That's true, I am. I care about these funky cartoon children and I do get a little angry thinking about how much they've been mistreated by everyone they've ever known.

Another problem with Scratchansniff's treatment of the Warners is the way he's been forced to approach it, and this is largely not his fault. He was asked by his boss, the CEO of the company, to get the Warners under control. To dezanitize them, make them quiet, "normal", polite, compliant children. In other words, he's asking Scratchansniff to destroy every part of the Warners' unique personality. What Plotz is asking could only be accomplished by a lobotomy.

I'm not saying the Warners don't need treatment. They do have problems and could benefit a lot from competent psychological treatment. That, though, would look a lot different from what Scratchansniff has been ordered to do. Effective treatment for the Warners would not seek to change who they fundamentally are. They would be allowed to remain zany, remain silly, keep the things that set them apart from everyone else. But they would be taught the things they were never told about the world and their role in it. Shown when it's appropriate to be all-out zany and when they might want to consider bringing it down a notch, and, most importantly, they would be told why these distinctions are important. Their self-esteem would be boosted, they would be shown that it's possible for them to exist in society and be accepted by others around them. They would realize that they can be comfortable simply being who they are, that they don't have to act out and amplify their zany traits to protect themselves from judgement and disappointment. All of this can be accomplished through just a few easy steps:

Make the therapy sessions feel like a learning environment. The Warners enjoy learning, they like the feeling of knowing stuff. If you make them feel like they're under a microscope, that there's something wrong with them you're trying to fix, of course they'll become defensive and uncooperative. You have to make it feel like a collaborative effort where you're simply showing them things about the world that they had missed before.

Make them feel accepted, both in the psychiatry office and outside of it. This step is the hardest because you have to get Plotz and WB leadership on board. Make sure the Warners know that you fully accept them, everything about them, and that they can talk about anything without judgement. They might make fun of you if you directly say this to them, but it's important that they know. Even if they don't seem like they're listening, they are. Then, make sure the rest of the studio lot is also an accepting place. Don't make certain areas off limits to them just because you think they'll annoy others. Let them out of the damn tower whenever they please. Teach them certain social norms that will allow them to more easily interact and feel accepted outside of the lot as well.

Gently make them aware of how their own behavior contributes to their marginalization from society. Be very careful not to point the finger at them, lest they become defensive again, and emphasize that none of the abuse they've suffered is in any way their fault. However, somehow they must become aware of how their actions can be off-putting to humans, why some people may find them annoying, and how it doesn't make their situation any easier. They probably already know on some level, but they have to become consciously aware. They also must be reassured that they are completely in control of their own actions. In the past, humans have given them the impression that they're nothing more than zany robots who have preprogrammed comedic reactions to things. Make sure they realize they're more than that, that they are intelligent, thinking people with complete agency over themselves. Allow them to detach their self-worth from their comedic skills, from their status as toons. This is a later-stage step that should only be undertaken once the Warners are comfortable with you and willing to be open and honest about themselves.

Never go back on your word or betray their trust in any way. This is one of Scratchansniff's major mistakes, possibly his biggest single mistake with the Warners. The Warners have simply been betrayed and misled too many times- they will turn their back on you and run away (metaphorically) the second they feel like you haven't been completely honest with them. They don't easily give others their trust. It has to be a slow process, building up trust over time, never taking a step backwards or giving them a reason to doubt that it's all worth it. It's like trying to build a relationship with a skittish wild animal. If you make any sudden movements, they will flee and your chances of befriending them take a major hit.

If everything goes well, the end result will not be three quiet, conformist children. They'll still be the Warners in all the ways that matter. But they'll be self-assured, confident that there is a place for them in society, willing to take social risks and open themselves up to people outside their little familial bubble. And all of this will have the side effect of ending most of their destructive, so-called annoying traits, because they'll simply have no need to do those things. People that feel connected to the world around them, that care about others and have others that care about them, will be much less likely to harm it.

To conclude this first part, I'll bring the focus back to Scratchansniff. If you still have any doubts that the Warners are not an impossible case, here's the strongest proof I have- even for all his many, many faults and missteps, Scratchansniff still managed to make progress with the Warners. He came close to earning their total trust and did form a close relationship with them, despite all the reasons they had to doubt him. But, in the end, Scratchansniff was simply unsuited to help the Warners in a way that would actually benefit them. He didn't have the tools. What Plotz should have done, if he truly cared at all about the Warners, is hire someone who had actual practical experience working with children, preferably even someone with experience working with toons (I assume such people exist in a world where toons live alongside humans in everyday life). The Warners could have been tamed. If you want do that, though, taming them cannot be your primary goal.

The next part will talk about the positive side of Scratchansniff's relationship with the Warners, and how it eventually all went wrong.

UPDATE: Here is a link to part 2.

[stranger-rants]

Hey 👋

I've seen some recent anti posts where they're like "Dacre did SUCH a good job making us hate Billy" which is... just so wrong lmao.

They act like Dacre didn't put his heart, body, and mind into making Billy a sympathetic character (in contrast to the Duffers wanting another Henry Bowers).

Also... saying Billy is like Bowers is laughable tbh.

Henry targeted each and every kid in the losers club. He didn't have a sister that his father made him watch, like Billy did.

If anything, Bowers is closer to Jason Carver than any other character.

Well, Troy from s1 (and his pal, I think his name was James), too.

But I guess they were forgotten as well *sigh*

I saw someone say that Billy saying "it'll all be over soon" felt r*pish. He was possessed, and that same person also said that he'd told this to Max.

Seems to be a common theme in which some antis haven't actually watched the show.

Some die hard Steve fans who are antis, have even told me they either haven't watched s1, or they just straight up ignore s1 Steve.

As a survivor myself, I really wish antis would stop throwing around words like r*pe and abuse.

When they mention abuse, all they ever mention is Billy being the abuser. They don't talk about Neil, they don't talk about Lonnie, and they don't talk about Brenner (or Vecna).

Another thing I've noticed is that outside of our corner, the only other time this fandom mentions abuse is really just to further prove that a certain ship is canon.

Hey 👋🏻

It is funny, because Dacre has been very vocal about Billy having “flaws” but not being inherently bad or evil. He advocates so hard for imperfect victims, which is what I love about him. Billy would be nothing without Dacre, and I wish more actors had the guts to fight for better writing lol. The Duffers keep making shallow references to Stephen King’s work, and it makes me really wonder if they understood any of the major themes in his books. Granted, King was doing a lot of drugs when he wrote IT, but the story is still solidly inspired by real homophobic and racist violence in a small town as well as the general disregard for children and their safety. Stranger Things is based on conspiracy theories and government experimentation on people. Why they act like these two medias are comparable or need the same kinds of antagonists is just weird to me.

Henry Bowers was abused, too. Like, his father was a racist cop who antagonized Mike’s family for years and he was also violent towards his own son. Obviously, that had an impact on Henry who developed antisocial behavior. On the very surface, that seems similar to Billy. However, there is a big difference between them in terms of agency and the degree of harm. Billy’s violence was mostly reactive. There was a clear trigger (usually his dad). Henry sought out his victims to antagonize and he was very much addicted to the violence. IT was able to weaponize Henry because Henry wanted that power. He ended up killing his father without remorse. In order for the Mindflayer to weaponize Billy, it had to take over his mind and his body completely leaving Billy with little to no agency. Billy was consumed by guilt over what the Mindflayer made him do. His personality and reaction to trauma is nothing like Henry Bowers.

Henry is representative of the fear and hate prevalent in his small town, which is similar to Jason’s role last season in that regard. Their respective roles expose the prejudices of their communities. Billy’s role didn’t really do that. I don’t think the Duffers really thought about his purpose beyond being a “human antagonist” and a source of conflict for Max and Lucas (which…why was this necessary if they were never going to address it again?). There are obviously bigger bads whose entire shtick is Remorseless Abuser, and I’ve said before that this show *could* be about systematic abuse and fighting against it (including government/institutional abuse) but the Duffers hate survivors too much to explore that with any authenticity. So, we end up having to do that for them. This show and its fandom at large really are so shallow. All spectacle and trauma as decoration without critical thought.

[kindredhearts13]

An Extremely In Depth Dissection of the Cleaning Lady, Episodes 6-8

Okay, I am sure I am going to inadvertently piss someone off by saying this, but it needs to be said: in a general sense, we’ve began to confuse romance with lust and sex. And while those things are not inherently exclusive and removed from each other, they all can and do also exist without each other. Television in the past few years, particularly shows surrounding younger characters tend to use sex as a cure all. A lot of times, it is contrived plot armor that, ironically, doesn’t actually add anything to the actual plot or story. It’s just used for sensationalism, whether it makes sense or not. Perhaps I’m in the minority of people that want earned interactions between two characters, or that want the ownership of a character’s sexuality to feel authentic to the character. there are many criticisms I’ve had and will continue to have about the show, but I will also be the one loudly applauding the writers and showrunners for letting the characters be authentic and human, and not simply doing what would be sensational or exciting with no genuine reasoning behind it. (i’ll discuss more of this below the cut.)

Let me be the first to say, I hope that the show never makes a major character decision purely for fan service. Because THAT is what kills a show. Let me use of one the most famous examples: Game of Thrones. Yes, that show was sensational in every bit of meaning- but the sensationalism was never the point of the show. The political drama and danger that it created was always the focus and always meant to be at the forefront. To the point that it dictated whether characters that we loved lived or not. It was when the showrunners lost sight of this and ran out of source material that the show shifted and became something unrecognizable. They gave into fan service with bigger battles, more sex, random out of character jokes that didn’t fit the person saying them and it tarnished what was once considered one of the greatest pieces of television we’ve had.

Whether or not we like it, whether or not we agree with every choice regarding two characters and their relationship, the show is not about the romance between Thony and Arman, That is a MAJOR part of it, but the actual show is about a woman trying desperately to save her family and the impact that has on everyone that comes into contact with her. Yes, it is technically an ensemble show- but there is ONE main lead- The Cleaning Lady- Thony. And the reason this show is so good and we care so much is in large part because the writers and showrunners understand what their show is about- as do the actors. Yes, there could be improvements and I’m sure they will come. But I do think we have to be realistic about what we’re going to see and support what we do have and do like so that we don’t end up losing it. Now that I’ve said my piece on that, let’s dive in.

This is going to be different than my typical dissections of the episodes. I feel that these last three episodes have all gone hand and hand in three parts of a whole. So, I’m going to be looking at all three and breaking down moments and thoughts that particularly stood out to me.

First, I want to discuss the pacing. As many of you know, I write fanfiction on the show. In fact, this show brought me out of a years long hiatus of writing any fanfiction at all. At the time, I was inspired to write because of the myriad missing moments I felt we had in the show- specifically between Thony and Arman. Now, while I do still find that I crave certain moments or scenes to give more context- I haven’t felt a pulled to write because I’ve found myself very pleased with how the story and its pacing has unfolded this season. I was, obviously, always a fan of the show- but this season, they’ve really found their stride and seemed to have really honed onto those quieter, more delicate moments that make the characters feel more real and personal. It’s something that I greatly appreciate and wanted to make mention of it before I speak on anything else. If the show is able to maintain this pace, I genuinely believe season 3 could be their strongest and potentially garner them more support from a larger fan base. 

GARRETT

To my pleasant surprise, Agent Garrett Miller has FINALLY arrived. It took a season and a half, but I can finally say that he’s a character I am becoming invested in and wouldn’t be opposed to seeing more of. Episode 8 was definitely his strongest episode, but I think that this last episode set him up for some really interesting development for the rest of the season.

I’ve said it before, but I genuinely think the biggest issue with Garrett’s character was never that he was a flawed FBI agent; rather, it was that he was so inherently rooted in his privilege on a show about people trying to make a way without privilege and protections. While it made total sense for him to not fully understand his privilege and agree with Thony’s point of view, it was a failing of his actual character’s design that he had a constant safety blanket last season, which led him to having no real consequences and coming off as extremely un-relatable. Last season, almost every personal (and professional) issue he encountered was handled within the matter of that episode. His ex wife that he cheated on didn’t want him around his son? He showed up at her house, made her laugh, and things were fine. He was supposed to be on a tight leash after his inappropriate behavior with a CI, but still did things without his superior or partner? He found some good intel, so they were able to overlook it. He gets someone deported and nearly gets Fiona deported, as well? He’s back on that “short leash,” but isn’t removed from any casework. Even him attempted smuggling of Thony across the border, his most selfless act last season, ended up impacting her more than him and he still suffered no true consequences. Not even with his boss and friend, who would’ve had every right to sever any personal relationship with him after that. There was nothing that actually made his character develop because he didn’t have to develop past the very clear safety net laid out for him. Then, this season, we met Maya- and it all changed. 

I was nervous about the introduction of Maya at first; thinking that we were just going to watch him win without actually deserving the win. Again. But to my shock, that didn’t happen. While it was sad Maya’s part in the story was reduced to something so small and we didn’t get to emotionally connect with her as much, outside of the lens of Garrett’s former lover, she did end up serving a greater purpose and meaning to the show. And not just for Garrett, but also for Arman. I wouldn’t say that Maya humanized Garrett, because he already was a believable human- just not a likable one; but it did ground him. Her presence rooted his character back into a sense of reality and served as an ongoing reminder of a constant consequence for his actions. She ended up in the messy situation she was in because of choices that he was a part of; and for once, this consequence isn’t just going away. Garrett is actually being forced to think and act differently, to take accountability, and face some hard truths about himself. I don’t know if it will last, but I certainly hope that it does. 

I enjoy the burgeoning friendship he has with Thony, and I think it would be increasingly interesting to see the push and pull of how he interacts with Arman in later seasons. I also really appreciated the way he was with Chris and Fiona. I don’t know that I would necessarily envision something romantic, but I would be incredibly curious to see a type of confidant relationship happen between Garrett and Fiona. It would be unexpected, but it would also have to be earned which would mean major growth for both of their characters to come to this place of mutual respect and understanding. I’m intrigued by the thought. 

I also appreciate the fact that he didn’t cross the line with Maya again, at least not physically. I worried that they would take the seedlings of growth we had and destroy it by having them be incredibly intimate with one another; but in reality, while you could feel the tension (and at times desire between them) we watched Garrett exhibit something that he isn’t known for: restraint. I genuinely enjoyed spending time with this version of him and I hope that we get to see more of this side of his character- because this is the side that’s going to make him feel more imperative to the show and the other characters. 

CHRIS

I am so glad that they have carved out more of this show and story for Chris, and I hope they continue to do so. I can truly see his character having such growth and a beautiful arc as we continue to watch him heal and struggle with that healing. I hope that they don’t just act like the whole Marco thing never happened, but I also want them to show us what it looks like when Chris feels like he’s regaining control of his life or actively choosing to live it. He’s so young, but so wise and he already exists as a type of anchor for the family. Fi choosing to not keep him as in the dark is something I wasn’t entirely expecting, but that I’m thrilled about- because it opens up a realm of possibilities. For example, with JD’s words last episode, one could wander if the next season of the show would explore these influences in Chris’s life. A JD/Garrett like presence vs an Arman. And while we know that Arman is a gentle giant, most don’t. And I can absolutely see Chris feeling powerful in the way Arman did by getting involved in this world. It would also serve as an interesting conflict for Thony and Fiona. 

Something that really struck me with Chris is just how much he genuinely loves Thony. They don’t have enough scenes together that are just the two of him, but she is clearly like a second mother to him. I would love to see more of their individual relationship more built up as the show progresses. Not only was Thony willing to take the fall for him, but Chris was going to take the fall for her. And from the beginning, he was able to see what Fiona could (or would) not- that Marco was hurting Thony. Again, I feel that with Chris getting older and being so perceptive of everything happening around him, that we are being led to more of his inclusion into Thony’s world. 

JD AND FIONA

I don’t have too much to say here, save for the fact that I enjoyed the awkwardness and juxtaposition of their scenes for Thony and Arman’s. While the latter’s were tender and intimate, the former were cozy and innocent. Incredibly sweet and safe, and felt warm compared to the coldness of what Thony and Arman were facing. It made me happy to see the fun loving Fi from older days make an appearance and to watch her feel so at home in this new space. I don’t get the heat from her and JD that I do with Thony and Arman, but I do get the comfortable warmth that makes me curious to see more. (I still am toying with the whole Fi and Garrett getting closer idea.) Fiona deserves happiness and joy, and it was just nice to see some of that “normalcy” in the midst of so much turmoil. 

Now, here’s my beef with JD. He is NOT wrong. Jas does need to be kept safe and protected, they all do. And yes, Thony’s decisions (particularly concerning Arman) have cost her some of that safety they had last season. However, JD is extremely hypocritical in acting as if Thony, alone, has made some grave error in protecting her family. He’s concerned about Thony, who is actively working with the FBI; but wasn’t he complicit in keeping a secret from the FBI- himself? I just feel like he’s doing a lot of finger pointing for a man that just rolled back into town. And the suggestion that Fiona leave Thony, when it isn’t like she’s been the one truly bringing danger to their doorstep until now, makes me really disappointed in him. He had no concern for Thony, and I get it- again, he’s a Dad first. But if they are all a family, them that includes Thony. And he needs to think of her, too. 

KAMDAR

I just want to say: THANK YOU WRITERS FOR LETTING NAVEEN ANDREWS DO WHAT THE FUCK HE DOES! I’ve said it from day one and I will say it again, let Naveen act and that man is going to act the house down. Robert is so terrifying and insidious and loves playing mind games, and I cannot wait to see him even more in action and wordplay next episode. He is becoming such a delicious villain. 

THE THONY AND ARMAN OF IT ALL

I think right now, we probably have the most interesting opportunity to watch the development of the relationship between these two. Something that I really appreciate about them is that they feel grown. They feel mature and adult, because they are. And they make decisions that are more calculated and thought out, like an adult closer to their 40s and less like one closer to their 20s. It’s something incredibly refreshing to see on television, and something that made shows like Breaking Bad (which I’ve often said has heavily inspired the style of this show) so intriguing. Part of the reason that I’m so excited about this pacing is due to the fact that we no longer have to do as much guessing with these characters and how they feel. It’s not so much that they’re saying exactly how they feel more than before- I mean, Thony and Arman are slow walking that communication bit- but rather, we’re getting to actually see it. We’re actively getting to watch the conflict they feel about their very feelings, and I love getting to see things like that- both as an actress who studies, does, and teaches this for a living but also as a viewer who gets to watch these people reveal themselves to us. Character work is my favorite thing, and I feel so much more connected to these two, in particular, this season than I did the last. 

While I’m sure to some it would’ve made sense for Thony and Arman to fall into bed by now and to say I love you, to me it makes perfect sense why they haven’t. Given the fact that the very nature of the show asks us to question what we view as strictly right or wrong, I highly doubt that the writers are afraid of Thony and Arman being perceived as cheaters. They wouldn’t have the show that they did with the subject matter that they do if they didn’t expect the audience to be more emotionally intelligent than that. We learned the very first episode that Thony feeling like things were out of her control sent her on a spiral of trying to make everything as perfect as possible to make up for it; so, why in there would she then do something that she would view as reckless when she’s trying so desperately to push out the recklessness of her life? 

That’s literally the point of her and Arman. He is something that is associated with this recklessness and lack of control that she has over her life, yet his very existence contradicts this stereotype he should represent because all he’s done is try to help her regain control of her life and feel free. He’s tried to be her anchor and she ended up becoming his.

What’s kind of magical about where they are right now is that Thony has allowed herself to view her relationship with Arman as something solid and not reckless, something that took the entirety of last season for her to do. She kept pulling back and walking away from him because she knew what not doing so would mean- and it would go against what she feels that she should be. Her own moral compass. Their interactions in Mexico opened the door for her to start considering what it might mean if she did accept what she was feeling and did allow herself to find comfort and solace in someone that accepted her exactly as she was; even so, she was still hesitant and pulling away. Her focus was then and still is Luca and her family; and though she’s starting to blend the line between Arman and her family as one unit (when she was having a panic attack in his car, she said to him: “Let’s go home.” then corrected it to, “I need to get home.”), she still is Thony. The perfectionist, the surgeon, the woman who has put everything she’s ever wanted and needed on the shelf for someone else. So, when we do finally see these two being so completely intimate, and sexual, and romantic all at once- it will be because she feels safe in that choice. Thony has no reason to feel safe in that right now. 

Arman is still married, even if his marriage is truly over. And he may love Thony but he isn’t ready to admit that to himself let alone to her. Admitting that would mean admitting that this life he’s trying so hard to win back from Kamdar, this world he’s given up his family for, isn’t actually making him happy. He’d have to confront Nadia’s insinuation that he’d never be fulfilled being the “hero” that Thony sees him as, and ask himself if that’s true. And if Arman is too afraid to tell Nadia that things aren’t right in their marriage, that he isn’t happy- why should be expect him to suddenly be more emboldened with the person that has literally captured his soul? Thony has come from a place of abuse in her previous relationship. A place where she was never enough, and never had the support she needed. while Arman has been there for her and showed her what that support has looked like, he also hasn’t shown her that she is enough. He iced her out when he went to prison and first came out; and now- even though he’s killed for her, he’s still making Nadia a priority. 

The other side of their relationship; however, is this level of understanding that’s passed between them. They don’t do a great job at saying exactly what it is they feel, but they have this way of silently understanding one another and that prompts more open communication between them and allows them to better understand the other’s needs. Outside of just noticing things about one another, like when the other needs comfort; they have this understanding that they aren’t just friends and that there is something deeper there. Or different, as Arman put it. Their worlds can no longer exist without each other, but they also are too afraid to intertwine their worlds the way that we all want them to. 

What I found most interesting about the scene where Arman returned the key card to Thony was that you could literally see the moment Thony shamed herself for allowing herself to feel. You could see her mentally calling herself reckless and stupid, and Arman trying to explain and fix things before she shut him down. Because she couldn’t face it, and she couldn’t fix it. And it broke my heart because we watched her be alone all over again and all I wanted to do was hug her and say “you are enough.” She took a very clear emotional step back in that moment, which was evident in how she delivered the news about Nadia to him in their final scene together. And I am so curious to see how they’re going to bridge that gap. Because in such a short time, she went from allowing herself to believe that she maybe would actually be able to find something real and genuine with a person that would love and support and accept her no matter the cost, to being hit with her reality- which is that Arman isn’t technically hers. And that line between their two families does, in fact, exist. That moment when the camera cuts to her after he yells at Garrett and uses the words “my wife,” was that first crack in that image Thony was building in her mind. And the keycard just shattered that little bubble even further. And it is delicious, regency era inspired drama that I am so excited to see unfold. 

This post is already ridiculously long (seriously, if you’re still reading- hats off to you), but let me close with saying this: When Thony and Arman do finally have their moment of pure passion and love and desire and romance, I am so excited for it because it will actually have been earned. This show is very much told through the lens of the female gaze, and because of that, I want Thony’s embracing of her sexuality to be authentic to a grown ass woman that is steadfast in what she wants. I want it to be empowering for her, I want her to feel safe and not regretful. I want her to associate it with her having control and power over her own body and desires, and not replaced with a few lightly satisfying shots that will be purely fan service. Thony deserves so much more. Her relationship with Arman deserves more. And I cannot wait to watch them reach that more. 

[animehouse-moe]

Oshi No Ko Episode 2: Third Option

If there was ever going to be an indicator as to what the quality of Oshi no Ko would actually be like, it's this episode. A single 24 minute stretch with Aqua and Ruby settled into their stories. And what does this episode tell you? Well, that the story is far more particular and slow moving forward, and that it's (like sections of the first episode) lazy. So I'll break it down a little bit here.

I'll get the story out of the way: it's inoffensive. They're setting the stage, but the characters feel somewhat hollow in doing so. The exposition carries no energy or flair so it can end up feeling very dry. Regardless of delivery though, the sentiment and information within is pretty solid. Aqua absolutely refuses to allow Ruby to go off and be an idol, which is a totally valid decision. They express and explore it well as Aqua uses his previous life to make his current one a breeze. I think a little more could be done about Aqua's resolve and his relationship with the director, but it is only really the first episode for him in this state.

Bringing back the child actor that Aqua was placed against in his early days is a nice touch, but the sort of "longing" that they express in their first meeting feels weird. Unless it's a guise for hatred or appreciation it feels pointless for a child to have held onto for so long.

And Truthfully, I don't think there's anything else that really grips me with the story here. It's a setup and exposition, they're getting the band (read: Idol Group) back together and starting off at school. Nothing really to write home about in that regard.

Now adaptation wise? Yeah, there's a lot going on that I want to complain about, particularly composition. But we'll get there in a bit. They opened the episode (after the OP) with this. Yeah. Great way to engage viewers and make them think the episode is going to be great.

I just don't understand how you open an episode with this. Sure, there's little bits inbetween here and there, but it's literally a black screen with text coming across it. It feels outright lazy, so much so that they couldn't be bothered to come up with anything else to display it.

So yeah, that's how they set the tone for the episode, but don't worry the content within also helps live up to the expectations. I think the most egregious thing for me was the composition. The characters and the environment just don't work at all together in a lot of scenes. And it's not just art and characters butting heads, look at Heavenly Delusion. The environment is totally different from the characters, but they mesh perfectly fine and don't end up with eyesores like these. It's like all those jokes about Disney movies and being able to tell which objects will be interacted with. Except, with this first example, the dish with something on it isn't interacted with. Nor is the phone or anything besides the juice box.

Anyways, more examples! Aqua stands out painfully against the art style of the background here, and so does his slippers.

And then there's stuff like this. Yeah, this first scene/angle looks perfectly normal. Or well, as close as normal can be to normal. The coffee mug next to the container of pens and whatnot is pretty obviously out of place, but it's better than some of the other stuff.

Also funny little detail! The coffee cup moves between cuts for zero reason. Miyako doesn't touch or move the cup, but it gets placed directly in front of her in some cuts without reason or purpose.

Anyways, another pointless piece of poor compositing. They don't pick up or move any of the awards or trophies so I can't fathom why they force them to stick out so badly. Even worse is the fact that the glass award is out of place, but the framed one is not.

And there's lots of examples of this throughout the episode, but I think my point's been made. There's a whole bunch of needless layering that creates jarring environments where there doesn't need to be. It's confusing.

Though it's not confusing but equally bothersome is the direction. It feels largely similar to the worse parts of episode 1. A lot of headshots of characters with nothing else in the environment and minimal motion. They do good when expressing full body movements, but they take a lot and place that focus on faces. On top of that, there's a lot of cycled animation. Plenty of scenes that remain moving but only through repetition, and it's really quite obvious with shorter ones like this.

And here's yet another example just to help drive the point home. It's super easy to come off as dismissive when providing negative commentary on something, so hopefully giving more examples will help explain it better.

Now you might be thinking, "aren't you just nitpicking everything?", and in a sense you're correct. But here's the thing - there's nothing to stop me from doing that. There's nothing where I can say, "well, X is actually doing really well so I'll give Y a pass". There's nothing that really speaks out and says "hey, give us a little break because we put our effort here".

The season opener seems to have gotten everyone hook line and sinker, and whether they just put their effort into the start or they calculated it and wanted to reel people in for the season I have no idea. But I do know that even for anime onlies this is is not 9+ territory. The story can only carry so far, and on such an expected episode there's no justification for it. There's chances ahead for Doga Kobo to come out swinging, but any attempt to establish dominance over how "quality" this adaptation is going to be has gone out of the window. I'll probably end up watching it still since Wednesdays are rather empty for me, but between what amounts to now 4 or even 5 episodes worth of content, they really don't give me a reason to engage with the anime over the manga.

[oscar-delancey]

What’s different between Livsies Delanceys and OBC Delanceys?

Honestly? Not a lot, but also a lot. Just so you know going into this, though, all my comparisons are a mix of canon and personal fanon so bear with me LOL

How are they the same?

Obviously, they're all still the Delanceys. They're the same characters in the same media just portrayed at different times! They still are hired to be thrown against the newsies and still handle the "dirtier" tasks their uncle doesn't want to deal with. But this isn't what you're asking for, so I'll spare you that massive rambling post.

How are they different?

Actors, portrayals, and personalities.

Just like any other newsie, the brothers are portrayed differently across every version of the musical because of their actors. They may share their names, they may share the general surface level goals, but they're always different. There's different interactions between each other and with the newsies, there's different things that make them tick or set them off, and there's different mannerisms with them that allude to different key personality traits. It's all about paying attention and being interested in how they differ!

Obviously since this is about Livesies vs OBC for the brothers, it's going to be about Mike Faist's Morris and Brendon Stimson's Oscar vs Devin Lewis's Morris and Anthony Norman's Oscar.

It can be quite easy to lump OBC and Livesies together when it comes to how you perceive and portray ANY of the Newsies characters. They're technically the same iteration, it makes sense! Just as it makes sense to combine different bits of the characters from Broadway, the movie, and West End! But I very much prefer separating them, sheerly because they are portrayed so differently IMO.

The biggest different I have always seen is specifically Oscar. Brendon's seems much more aloof, egotistical, and full of himself, while Anthony's feels more restrained and quiet. Like he's holding back his anger (which is very much true according to Anthony). The way they hold themselves and how they express themselves are a big enough difference to garner being considered two different iterations.

There's even more when I go into specifics (please note that the differences I perceive are based on how the versions are filmed. This is a bootleg vs a proshot, a lot of my stuff regarding OBC!Oscar is interpretation's based on movements and his voice since I cannot see his face well).

REMEMBER! I am using a mix of MOSTLY canon and some fanon interpretations for this. These are also MY things I noticed and MY perception of them. It can differ for anyone!

OBC Oscar:

is very talkative outside his scripted lines. We see him talking to newsies in the background has he hands out papers when the focus isn't on them. He motions quite a bit with his hands and comes across as a very expressive person. We also see him talking to his brother a bit more often, again being far more expressive than Morris, gesturing a lot whether it's towards the newsies or other things around them.

shows (and feels) more than anger/frustration regarding the newsies and the strike. When the strike begins and the newsies stand their ground against the brothers, Weisel, and the scabs, Oscar is more visibly shocked than anything else. He comes out in front of the paper stand when his brother backs down from Jack, and is again frantically gesturing towards the newsies. His movements read more as shocked and honestly stumped, rather than angry or eager to fight.

is quick to back down from a fight. He is INCREDIBLY all bark no bite. The only time we really see him engage in a fight (outside of the giant brawl in Seize the Day) is during Carrying the Banner, where he shoves Race. Pre Seize the Day he backs down IMMEDIATELY when newsies square him up. He doesn't even try to stand his ground like Morris. He is immediately backing away from them.

Livesies!Oscar:

is rather quiet. He doesn't interact with any of the newsies, really, outside of his scripted lines. We sometimes see him talking in the background, but it is usually only with his brother. He watches people, yeah, but he really just does not talk to anyone. He is a honestly wonderful portrayal of that quiet, seething anger that slowly builds to the point of explosion

seems to actually be scared of Jack. Oscar, ever since the interaction in Carrying the Banner (both getting hit in the shin and then kicked in the face), flinches around Jack. It's a small detail, but a visible one during the proshot (he flinches when Jack slams the paper stand when he's pissed about the price change, and he flinches in the end when Jack (playfully?) hits Oscar with papers).

is actually kinda fucking cruel. Not only is he a yesman for Weisel, he seems happy to be it too. When he punches Crutchie, he also spits on the kid. When he threatens Jack in the cellar, he seems thrilled at the idea of using his brass knuckles against him. He doesn't come across as some kid barking up the tree, he comes across as someone who has some serious fucking issues that need to be brought under control.

Morris is a bit more difficult for me to properly explain the differences of outside of general appearance. Both Faist and Devin have WONDERFUL portrayals of Morris, but they also read quite similarly. Though, I will still lay out the differences I see :). (Again, my points about OBC!Morris are based on movements and his voice, because I cannot see his face).

OBC!Morris:

is quick to act against the newsies. When he see's the opportunity to get in their way and threaten or intimidate them, he takes it. See: he goes after Crutchie when Oscar shoves Race around, he immediately rushes forward to get the newsies to back down when they first go after the scabs, and he LUNGES forward to get the discarded papers before Jack and stands his ground against Jack for a while. Morris is in their faces as much as possible and is not afraid to move forward and be aggressive and threatening.

acts less like an egotistical yesman and more of a meat shield, both for his uncle and for his brother. He doesn't have the air of egotistical confidence that his brother has. Rather, he's more just... neutral, I'd say. He constantly steps up to his brothers defense (can be seen during the strike when the newsies go after Oscar) and more-so stands around as the intimidating chess piece Weisel has to move around rather than a guy there to back up his uncle's words.

is far more calm and calculated. Morris isn't one to run around or move/speak sharply. He is calm, he is calculated, and he is thorough. He's the definition of stone-faced if you ask me. When he delivers his threats, he delivers them flatly. Not in a bad way, more... deadpan, matched with unwavering certainty that it is almost impossible to determine if he is bluffing or not. He stands rigidly (both normally and when he is up hovering over the newsies keeping watch), he walks calmly, and he threatens the newsies with such a stagnant aura of confidence that you can't imagine him being loud or boisterous. He doesn't run from Jack in the cellar, he doesn't laugh, he barely even moves. He doesn't gesture like his brother and he barely wavers from his more intimidating stance.

Livesies!Morris:

is extremely expressive and wears his feelings and thoughts on his sleeves. He is a lot more physical and expressive when it comes to dealing with the newsies and how he reacts to them. He scoffs at Jack's threats, he slams the gate near Race's face when the newsie makes fun of him and his brother, he spreads his arms in that "try me" gesture when accusing the newsies of trespassing, and slams his fist on the press and points to it when threatening Jack. Honestly, that entire bit in the cellar he is much more animated than OBC. He throws the cover at Jack, he giggles at his own tormenting, and he fucking sticks his tongue out lmao.

craves violence and is far more eager to fight. Morris actively throws himself at the newsies multiple times. He jumps at the idea of tormenting Crutchie during Seize the Day and he nearly lunges at the newsies when they start to charge the scabs. He has to be held back by his uncle and actively throws a mini fit when he's shoved back. When it comes to the actual strike and the strike breakers come in to stop the newsies, he SKIPS in, he is EAGER to be there and to get his hands on the newsies.

is an accidental yesman to his brother and uncle. Despite having the exact same lines as OBC, Morris comes across as though he is backing up his family rather than acting on his own thoughts and threats. Going after Crutchie in Carrying the Banner feels more like an afterthought of "ooh! Violence! My brother started this I want some too!" than his own action of his own volition. Same with his threat during Seize the Day. He acts on the words and actions of others, he is tied to them. I feel like if you separated him and put him alone, he would be almost useless against anyone going after him. He is nothing without his brother (and, honestly, his brother is nothing without him).

In the end, they are still the same characters from technically the same iteration, just about 6 years apart. But to watch them and listen to them and pick them apart? It's so interesting coming across their differences and interpreting them. What matters to me, though, is the overall comparison that it came down to for me:

The OBC brothers hold each other up and fight tooth and nail for each other, while the Livesies brothers need each other to stand against the newsies but can fend on their own. It's not a big difference? But at the same time it is a big enough difference in nuance. They still care about each other in both iterations, but the way they help each other and defend each other are very different. We see them stepping up to back up the other more often in OBC, but in Livesies we see them standing back to back against the newsies during Seize the Day.

I just think it's neat to write them differently :D

[thesearchforbluejello]

We've been seeing your reblogs of SNW on our feed, and we gotta ask... Thoughts and opinions? Is it good? Would you recommend watching it to a trekkie who hasn't watched any of the new trek properties since the first few episodes of Discovery?

Oh man oh man oh man. I have a lot to say. If you don't want to read all of it, there's a TLDR at the end.

✅ episodic format: It's SUPER different from Discovery, so if you prefer the older episodic shows over the newer serialized format, it'll definitely check that box.

❌ season arcs: even though the older episodic shows have two partners and/or small (or large) season arcs, SNW doesn't really... There's one that connects the end of s1 to the beginning of s2, and it's a big deal, but it's not drawn out. I'm not even married to season arcs, but I do think that if they're doing silly filler episodes, ten episodes is too short for a season and thirteen would have been better for them. I LOVE silly filler episodes, so let's get that straight, but they're better when it's not taking up literally a fifth of the season.

✅ space hijinks and the risks of exploration: It oscillates wildly between silly and dark, sometimes between episodes and sometimes within the same episodes, but I see that as one of its strengths. It gets really goofy in a fun way, but it's also bloodier than older Trek... mostly just because they actually show blood. The crew commits so many hijinks and they're all friends and fun to watch together.

❌ character development: the actors are really carrying the characters alone for this one. The characters are all lovable and for the most part the actors are doing a great job, but frankly this is my biggest complaint about the show. We get very, very little development for any of the characters even over the first and almost complete second season. They're just still not well established. The writers seem to think "trauma" is the same as characterization... which like obviously it's not, so. I get very irritated (which you've probably seen in my tags) about the fact that there's often "development" for the characters that builds on a foundation that's basically just toothpicks. It still takes them a step forward, but it's always a stumble imo. I know some folks who are casual watchers who don't mind this though (I'm just neurologically incapable of casual watching). This is also apparently an unpopular opinion, but (spoiler alert) I also think Kirk is in it too much. He'll have been in at least 4/10 of the season 2 episodes, but he's not even posted to the Enterprise. I LOVE Paul Wesley's Kirk like he's my favorite Kirk nobody @ me but the show is about the SNW crew, not Kirk. They're struggling to even develop the seven major SNW characters, so constantly throwing Kirk in constantly is kind of annoying me. They also don't do full ensemble episodes, so often some of the major characters will only show up for one or two scenes and someone else will be the focus. This isn't my preferred format, but I don't hate it-- that being said, some characters are being seriously neglected because of it, but I won't fully rant about that.

✅/❌ Discovery tie in: you don't need to have seen Discovery to watch it. I watched s1 without having watched Discovery. HOWEVER, it will spoil the ending of Discovery s2 in SNW 1x01, just be aware (as in it will totally obliterate one of the big reveals in Disco).

✅Anson Mount: I say this as someone who's literally never seen him in anything else, but he brought his A game every episode and he's the absolute MVP of the series. Really great performances and he makes Pike an incredibly lovable character but also a really great captain.

❌ Discussion of disability: I have a lot of thoughts regarding the treatment of disability as a horrifying thing and equating it with death. Like, fear of physical injury is a very human thing because it's literally a survival response that's wired into us, but there's both some sloppy writing that equates physical disability with death and just a failure to actually explore what a disabled future means for a person. It's kind of hard to explain what I mean without obliterating an entire episode of Discovery and the whole first season of SNW if anyone else reads this, so I won't go into it but I will say this-- I didn't find this weak point to be bad enough to stop watching, and it involves TOS canon that they can't escape, so they're not doing something that's deliberately offensive and disrespectful, but they're not doing it particularly respectfully either.

✅ special effects: there aren't as many REALLY alien characters as Discovery, so there has been less major prosthetic design on display, but what there has been has been good and the CGI is great.

✅ Old school nods: there's so much campy scifi in this show. They do the bridge impact lean and shake thing and they have cool props and the uniforms are a little silly but also so well designed. The ship design is really 2020s and not classic Trek but there are still elements of that design and it's still cool as hell. Also, like, it's the fucking Enterprise, so I'm going to be feral over it regardless.

❌ CO and XO: Listen, this is such a personal taste-based opinion BUT I'm mad about it so I'm going to COMPLAIIIIIIIIIN about it. One of my favorite things about any Trek is the CO/XO relationship, whether it's on a ship or a station or whatever. I just find that a really fascinating dynamic, and it's so different every time. This show has a FASCINATING CO/XO dynamic and the actors have really cool ideas... but developing this at all would require the XO to ACTUALLY BE IN THE FUCKING SHOW. She's in every episode but often not for long. I have some major opinions on this, in case that wasn't obvious. They've done 17 episodes and this relationship hasn't been developed very much. We've had some good scenes and a good plotline, but my complaint still stands for reasons I won't spoil unless requested.

❌ Strange New Worlds: there are barely any new worlds, nevermind strange new worlds. Half the time it's just Star Trek: Doing Stuff in Space and the other half it's Star Trek: Hey We Found Something Weird in Space and Are Investigating It. Not a big complaint, just... not quite what it says on the tin.

TL;DR I love SNW a LOT. It's fun and it's silly but it also confronts the big philosophical questions of existence and morality that are central to Trek. I do have a lot of complaints, but honestly one of the reasons I have so many complaints is because I love it so much.

It's definitely Trek in flavor and it doesn't demand high commitment to watch it. Someone will inevitably yell at me for this, but it actually reminds me most of Voyager-- it's silly and the relationships of the crew are prioritized, but they do some really messed up episodes along the way too. It's a very different vibe to Voyager though, to be clear.

If you decide to watch it, let me know! I'd love to hear what you think :)

[oreolesbian]

I think part of the reason Will’s storyline in s4 is so frustrating is bc, in the past couple of years, we’ve been seeing TV shows set the bar higher and higher when it comes to queer rep. Queerbaiting still exists in different, evolved forms across the media landscape, of course, but TV has had a pretty good upward trend of genuine representation.

In the past few years we’ve seen kids shows like She-Ra and The Owl House have, undeniably queer lead protags. We’ve seen shows like Our Flag Means Death w/ no marketing as having queer characters, and then ending up with six of them, furthering to help normalize queer existence (and in a ‘period’ piece, may I add—with actual queer people behind the scenes). And even on Netflix, we’ve had Heartstopper and First Kill. Two shows of varying quality, but with dedication to showing teenage queer protags w/ actual storylines.

So to have Stranger Things, a very popular show which chose to have queer characters, then use said queer characters to further the narrative of two hetero romances, and then have one of those queer characters be only “up to interpretation,” “implied,” etc. after months of marketing where the actors/writers said he would be explicitly confirmed as queer, is just insane. Like…maybe a few years ago we all would’ve hung back and sighed, because we’re used to this. But now that other shows are showing what absolute bullshit queerbaiting is and how easy it is to just have queer characters exist, shows like Stranger Things need to fucking step up.

If they didn’t want to write queer storylines, that’s fine. But if that’s the case—then they never should’ve made Robin or Will queer if they never intended to follow through with anything for them in terms of story. Robin is a side character—I don’t expect a whole ass love story for her, and I don’t need one. But Will is (or at least used to be) a major character. And his queerness was pushed in this season as a story arc for him, only for it to be used to move the characterization of two straight characters. Will doesn’t get to have agency as a queer character. And it’s not about him not being in a relationship, or getting to be out and proud—it’s quite literally just about him being more than a device. Some characters are devices of course, that’s how good writing works—but Will has quite literally graduated to one of the central characters in the friend group, to a background piece. And his queerness is a huge factor in his isolation from his peers, but even in these bloated episode runtimes, there’s nothing, not even in a scene between him and Johnathan that was so clearly meant to replicate a coming-out scene, just without the actual coming out. The Duffers have two queer characters who do nothing more than prop up their straight characters. And that’s not good.

And now they use the “it’s the 1980s” as an excuse, a cover, as if writing a period piece w/ queer characters that have agency and don’t serve as plot devices for, again, hetero romances is an absolute impossible task.

Obviously ST is not going to be Heartstopper in terms of warm-hearted queer stories. I personally don’t even mind sad queer stories about pining—I relate to them if anything. But ST didn’t do that. No, they used Will’s queerness specifically, to help Mike and Eleven get back together. And to top it off they did the classic “beat around the bush” approach regarding explicit revelations about whether Will is gay or not.

It’s frustrating and stupid and leaves a bad taste in the mouth when remembering the shows of old who followed this formula. Quite literally any queer person involved in creative could’ve helped amend this, but no. They instead chose to humiliate their queer fans who had the audacity to believe they could actually see themselves reflected in this show.

[talkingbl]

KBL v. Thai BL: My Two Cents

So, I see the Thai BL v. KBL discourse on twitter and thought I'd chime in on it.

Most common KBL stan arguments I've seen:

Thai BL is bad. Bad acting, bad direction, bad editing, etc.

Most, if not all, Thai BL actors and stories are problematic.

Thai BL is just porn with no plot.

Thai BL actors are 70% jumpscares.

Most common Thai BL stan arguments I've seen:

Most KBLs are boring.

KBL stans are xenophobic and/or fetishize the Korean look.

Even if some KBLs are good, they're not all that much better than Thai BLs.

KBLs are just het kdramas w/2 men instead of a het couple (i.e., little actual LGBT representation).

Arguments I see from instigators who're pretending to take the high road:

Taiwanese BL better than them all.

"Only good LGBT content out of Thailand are the ones starring [insert their favorite femme actor here]."

My Take.

Both sides have some decent points and some completely idiotic takes. I agree with KBL stans that a lot of popular Thai BLs feature terrible acting and plot. Not all, but maybe 7 out of every 10 Thai BLs I've watched (mostly popular ones) either lack significantly in the acting or the editing department (with some lacking in both). Few are outstanding pieces of cinema (though I don't think those ones that aren't are meant to be).

Not only are so many Thai BLs just poorly made (and no, I'm not talking about looking expensive, I'm talking about hiring looks/nepotism/name recognition over talent), so many of them are just ill-conceived to begin with. Most popular Thai BLs are adapted from light novels which are just straight up erotica. And when you take the sex out, there's nothing of substance left. Nothing wrong with that (IMO). But I do see the argument from KBL stans as I, like many others, watch media to immerse myself in an entertaining and sometimes profound story (not necessarily just to get my rocks off). Obviously, a story can do both but it needs to be done well and be well-balanced.

Next, relative to actors in other industries a lot of Thai BL actors have been exposed for being homophobic/rape apologists/colorist/etc. Thai BLs also feature harmful tropes such as making darker skinned characters the bad guys all the time (while pale-skinned characters are innocent angels who can do no wrong), or actively shun darker/less eurocentric features. THAT BEING SAID, there's a couple of caveats I want to point out with this line of thought:

Thailand is by far the biggest producer of live action BL content and is simultaneously the most visible. Of course, there's going to be more instances of abhorrent behavior that make it to the twitter trends than that of any other industry.

Korean men are also not angels? Lol. Like did we learn anything from all the one hundred eleven million times kpop idols have been exposed for racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, and all the other -isms and phobias out there? Just because your fave KBL actor isn't hitting the media circuit like the Thai BL actors are (thus, giving more opportunities for them to expose themselves/be exposed), doesn't mean it's not happening or that they don't think that way.

Point is, both can be horrible with regard to the problematic aspect lol.

As for the Thai BL stan arguments, I agree that most KBLs I've seen are not that interesting beginning-to-end. Many of the ones I've watched are either just as bad as the worst Thai BLs plot-wise or horribly mid with no camp/kitsch factor to save it. Very rarely do I come across a KBL that gets me hooked either due to outstanding production or outstanding story (or both, ideally). A lot of this, I think, is because I hate the kdrama-style of production/directing that can suck the soul out of a heartwarming story.

Now, don't get me wrong, I hate the Thai rom-com style of production/directing with the heat of a thousand suns but the rare saving grace is usually its camp "so bad it's good" value. Either way, both take many Ls in the production department, regularly.

That said, I agree with a lot of Thai BL stans that a lot of KBL stans are reformed kpop warriors who simply prefer the Korean look (which is where we get so many KBL stans calling non-kpopified Thai actors "jumpscares"). I want to be clear here that I don't think all or even most KBL stans are xenophobic, but I said this a long time ago that many KBL stans who talk about the superiority of KBLs and the "inferiority" of Thai BLs move weird to me. You can like something and not use xenophobic dog whistles basically calling Thai BLs (and, come to think of it, even Filo BLs) poverty content and Thai actors ugly for looking too non-Korean.

Please understand, I'm not saying folks can't like what they like. It's about how you express that that changes things (e.g., saying X actor is not attractive is very different than roasting a certain skin tone or virtually unchangeable physical feature across swaths of people). Also, I hate when Thai BL stans use this argument as a way to get out of addressing poor quality we get from Thai BLs that prefer a marketable face/name over good acting/story. Exposing latent Korean superiority complexes is not the way to win the argument about Thai rom-com quality being piss poor.

Finally, the so-called bench riders who are really just anti-Thai BL (rather than pro-KBL): Taiwanese BLs are not magically superior to all just because you want to pretend to be better than the other KBL stans while also simultaneously hating on Thai BLs. Don't get me wrong, I love some Taiwanese BLs but 1) those folx using Taiwanese BL as a crutch are usually not being genuine, and 2) Taiwanese BLs have the most suspect incest relationship-to-socially acceptable relationship ratio of all time lmaoooo. Taiwan is not stranger to terrible concepts and questionable acting. We cannot continuously pretend that all non Thai BLs are the Citizen Kanes of our time whilst this fact persists.

Worst of all are those who stan ITSAY/BkPP (claiming that it's not BL and they're ~serious actors) but roast every other Thai BL (and hell, all BLs in general). Like girl sthu, ITSAY is a BL and BkPP are full time singers now. /j but forreal, I have a lot to say about this group of stans that I'll save for another post. (a/n: I adore ITSAY and am seriously impressed with BkPP but some of their stans are just...yeah)