#anti Sydney x Carmy

[yezzyyae]

This generation is so FUCKED UP! Y’all think dating at work is cute & loving. When it’s weird & clingy as fuck! So yall want to be around yall significant other ALL FUCKING DAY LONG! Yall wake up together, go to the same job, cook next to each other 12hrs a day, then go home & have sex ughhh it’s weird! Y’all need therapy if yall think working with yall significant other is normal! It’s not and it’s lazy & clingy smh imagine yall coworkers & clients because everyday won’t be “happy in love” fucking weirdos! That’s why it’s so many lawsuits & #MeToo cases because in the beginning it might be fun but all of these generation have mental illness so it’s gonna go bad. Then one of yall gonna want the other one gone so then the lawsuits & HR visits being unstable.

So go get a cat or dog & stop thinking yall are suppose to be near yall significant others 24/7! Carmy & Sydney should NEVER BE A COUPLE! How tho Carmy has a mental illness that’s not diagnosed yet & he cannot handle living & breathing then working with his significant other. & Sydney can’t handle that either so stop being weird & go get therapy! Leave Sydney & Carmy alone they need to figure out how to be boss/employee 1st morons! Ugh I hate this generation of clingy ass people! Y’all ruining Law & Order:SVU trying to make Elliot & Olivia into a couple like mannn get the fuck out of here! Yall ppl need lives & to experience LOVE & FRIENDSHIP FOR YALL SELVES NOT JUST THROUGH TV & MOVIES!

NOW IM CURSING CAUSE I HATE YALL SO FUCKING MUCH! It’s so many tv shows that’s been ruined from yall weird ass sit on the internet all y’all lives people! Go breathe some fresh fucking air! Go touch other humans! Go talk to other humans! Carmy & Sydney are boss/employee how would they be dating! Carmy & Sydney are not equals in no way shape or form duh Carmy is one of the best chefs in the world & Sydney is still green! Sydney is learning from Carmy still!

[currymanganese]

GUYS, I CAN'T ACTUALLY BELIEVE I'M SAYING THIS, BUT WHAT IF THEY ACTUALLY HAD A GOOD REASON FOR JOHN CENA BEING CAST AS SAMMY FAK?

please bear with me (pun intended) and let me know what you think of my speculation under the cut~

In a mind-boggling case of a seemingly big-lipped alligator moment in season 3 - John Cena appears in a bizarrely over the top (even by the tonal comedic standards set previously by The Bear e.g. Ecto Cooler punch at a kid's birthday party getting spiked with Xanax in Season One) and jarring scene that stretches on and on as he obnoxiously squabbles, blathers and exchanges nonsensical rapid-fire quips with his brothers Neil and Ted Fak as they buff polish The Bear's dining area before a food photographer from The Chicago Tribune arrives to take a photo for a review of The Bear.

In this scene, he also intimidates and threatens to 'haunt' (in a Fak family tradition ( that even the Faks find annoying) - that involves pranking and being an unrestrained nuisance to their loved ones especially when they least expect it) his brother Ted for, "stealing his SD cards"......

This scene and the increased screen presence of the seemingly plot-irrelevant Faks this season is currently being eviscerated by plenty of fans and critics alike.

Edit:

I now strongly suspect that John Cena's role was always in the works ever since S1

..................................

But what if there's a (debatable, but) really good reason for this scene and the increased involvement in Seasons 2 and 3 of the massive numbered siblings family of Carmy's pseudo cousins, the Faks?

See Exhibit A:

In season 2, episode 3, Sundae - after Carmy has already asked Sydney out to Kasama, a husband and wife owned restaurant run by Tim Flores, and Genie Kwon*, ostensibly just to brainstorm and gain inspiration for planning for the new menu, and after Sydney has already gone home and freshened up and changed her clothes, then arrived to Kasama early, despite the meeting only being scheduled for an hour after she last spoke to Carmy at his apartment, Claire calls and interrupts the whole hypothetical shebang with Syd and Carmy at Kasama (the Tagalog WORD FOR TOGETHER) with the words,

"Did you mean to give me a fake number? You do know that I know your entire family [translation: she must know Donna too and Claire assumes that Carmy's folks approve of her - and she's proven to be technically right throughout Seasons 2 and 3 ], right? And I know ALL the Faks! [translation: tee hee! they're bigger than you - to quote Neil and Ted with their Uncle, "We Faks do have a particular shape, don't we?😇" - and they outnumber you, you scrawny punk, slay!😉✨]"

Claire then proceeds to playfully threaten to have said "massive numbered siblings" Faks, which includes Sammy Fak, played by John Cena (a professional wrestler, from an industry that is mixes both bawdy over the top theatre, a performance art that values Kayfabe (legerdemain/slight of hand anyone?) and comedy, and an athletic discipline) that is TALL. BUILT. HENCH. AND BUFF AF.....Claire 'playfully' threatens to have THESE FAKS, beat up Carmy, who is short in stature and cannot fight well from all the previous physical confrontations we've seen him be involved in, despite supposedly being a former high-school wrestler, and who has already been seriously physically abused thrice in the series run thus far (not counting him play fighting or trying to fight with Richie) after being JUMPED by a GROUP of assailants, not once, but TWICE in season one, by the Ballbreaker nerds in the pilot, and the Bachelor Party attendees in the season finale (the first season started and ended with Carmy being beaten tf up, Holy Shit! 🤯); AND AFTER BEING SLAPPED IN THE FACE IN SEASON 2 BY HIS OWN MOTHER, DONNA.

Notice the way Carmy goes from being lost in his thoughts but being completely relaxed after his menu planning session with Sydney, and in anticipation of seeing her on their would be inspiration seeking meet-up (definitely not a date, no Sir! 👀) at Kasama, to being tense and jittery and apprehensive when Claire calls him (after going behind his back and getting his number from Fak).

Notice the way Carmy's voice shakes when he asks Claire if she really knows all of the Faks.....

Notice Carmy's defeated and annoyed reaction after he hangs up the phone.

No wonder Carmy is being so avoidant and conflict averse in his handling of Claire in both Season Two and Three, he has absolutely no faith in himself or his loved ones at present to defend himself should he assert the type of boundaries he may have been desiring to have with them for these past two seasons, after all - who can he count on to fully have his back even to the point of physically intervening for him if he gets into a scrape or is genuinely attacked, by the Faks on account of Claire taking offense at or misrepresenting his words and actions to them, e.g. Claire apparently twisting Carmy's self loathing stream of consciousness confession (that she eavesdropped on) and telling Tiff that they broke up because Carmy said that "Claire will ruin everything good for him?" while he was trapped in the fridge?

What if Carmy knows he has to rip the band-aid and call Claire and apologize for his part in the superficiality and disintegration of their dalliance, but is afraid to do so because he knows in so doing, if he is being fully honest with himself and with Claire, he never truly wanted to be with her in the first place?

And who knows how Claire will take that revelation - it probably won't be pretty will it?

And.....

to quote Neil Fak,

"Claire's the best."

"We love Claire."

"I did that." [setting Carmy and Claire up in Pop)

And.....

Claire. knows. all. the. Faks.....

TL;DR

They cast John Cena as Sammy Fak, and the Faks had a lot of screen-time this season because they are the physical manifestation of being haunted in their family's sense of the word:

and a satirical visualization of Carmy's desire for Syd being cock-blocked ; plus Claire is a Love-able Alpha Bitch, and Carmy is ambivalent towards her, and even a little scared to face her, because her henchmen are the Faks!

If you enjoyed this post, then thank you for reading and I'd recommend that you check out the following meta on the way Christopher Storer and Company have seemingly (and controversially) committed to sticking to the bit of lying to the audience and breaking the fourth wall throughout this entire season:

Richie and the viewer - by @whenmemorydies with my add-on in the reblogs about Richie, not Carmy, potentially being Christopher Storer's author avatar in this series (from a post originally written before season 3 premiered.

Fourth Wall being broken - by @brokenwinebox and @thoughtfulchaos773

Claire being a possible representation of addiction, being a habit that is hard to kick - by @thoughtfulchaos773 and my and @devisrina 's add-on speculating that Claire may also be meant to be interpreted or revealed as a bit of a mean girl, to reference TVTropes, she (and by extension Season 3) may be a deconstruction/ mashup /send-up / subversion of the: Girl Next Door, the Cute Bookworm, Nerds Are Sexy, MPDG, Yandere, Alpha Bitch, Loveable Apha Bitch, Childhood Friend Romance, High-School Sweethearts, Sickeningly Sweethearts, Getting Crap Past The Radar, Freeze Frame Bonus, Parental Bonus, Viewers Are Geniuses, Give Geeks A Chance, Even Nerds Have Standards, Beauty Equals Goodness, Face-Heel Turn, Cerebus Syndrome tropes etc.....and a subtler mirror version of Donna Berzatto.

Edit: See my reblog add on to @espumado 's thread on the recurrent 'haunting' theme this season and the possibility of the Claire x Carmy x Sydney love triangle being a Lilith x Adam x Eve allegory, and my webweaving about Syd x Carmy's Adam and Eve parallels. sidenote: Lilith is Adam's first wife apocryphally and in Jewish mysticism that left him, and became a she-demon / mother of demons after being impregnated by the archangel Samael - wait is 'Sammy' Fak a Samael allegory?!!

and another reblog add-on of mine to the thread linked above - on The Faks as the living embodiment of all that is fake in Carmy's life, C Storer's handy dandy tools for slight of hand,

you can't spell fake without FAK.

and please see

Clairecarmy as Ann Veal x GOB from Arrested Development

and with Richie's frustrated refrain of, "Who cares?!" whenever Claire and Claire and Carmy's breakup is brought up in 3 -

see the running gag of George Michael Bluth's (from Arrested Development) family's disdain for Ann and his relationship with her.

5. The parallels between The Bear and Burnt by @ambeauty - a post Season 2 post which was proven to be prescient and insightful given the Easter Egg inclusion of Bradley Cooper's character from Burnt on the photo wall of chefs at Ever in the Funeral dinner in the finale.

6. The parallels between The Bear and Boiling Point - a gritty film and mini-series set in a restaurant which features several plot elements and characters reminiscent of certain character archetypes and subplots present in The Bear - seriously think of this IP as The Bear's cynical, dramatic, older British cousin.

Decision to leave by @anderwater

This anon that recommended Boiling Point to me and wrote about its connections to The Bear.

The difference between The Bear and Boiling Point by @theblvckvenus

The similarities between The Bear and Boiling Point in this reblog add-on to @happylikeasadsong et. al's thread.

7. Claire/Carmy and the Walk In - my old post on the parallels between Strange Days (1995), Can't Hardly Wait (1998, and The Bear.

and @ambeauty 's meta on Claire as a representation of the fridge

8. My post on the possible connection between The Bear Season 3 and Andrei Tarkovsky's experimental, semi-autobiographical, psychological Oedipal drama film The Mirror (1975) - a film which was incredibly divisive upon its initial release, but has since gained wide acclaim and re-evaluation as a masterpiece, and that has had a legacy of subsequently inspiring multiple renowned filmmakers.

9. The Bear series' lead actress, and the director of Napkins, one of the only episodes of The Bear Season 3 to receive almost universal acclaim - Ayo Edebiri's trollish sense of humour and assertion that lying is the pinnacle of comedy.

10. And last but certainly not least with the inclusion of a Genie Kwon*'s, of Kasama fame, cameo in the season finale and the prominence of Kasama being key to Syd and Carmy's stymied relationship progression, courtesy Claire, see

The Kasama of it all by @gingerylangylang1979

@mod-doodles @lunasink @vacationship @chansoooo1-blog

@bioloyg @msmoiraine @nerdyblerd @ripley-stark @uncriticalbunny @prowitchazel @msmoiraine @mswyrr @anxietycroissant @turbulenthandholding @tvfantic87 @laryssamedeirss @tejidaepoque @angelica4equity @inalltheirgorgeouscolors @houseofevangelista @glitterslag

@uncriticalbunny @imliterallyjustablackgirl

@bioloyg and @ambeauty please don't say I told you so or welcome back, I'm flabbergasted that I wrote this, but I want to believe! 😭

P.S. If you're still reading this, do yourself a favour and read @brokenwinebox 's post

New Paradigm

and this follow up

Mocktail is a dirty word

and check out her #the magic trick tag!

and also check out these Sydcarmy and Rosalind x Orlando from Shakespeare's As You Like It parallels:

The Bear as a pastoral comedy

First Meetings

Fumbling with your crush

Separation, keepsakes and lovesickness

and also C Storer really did tell us in the music that this season would inspire

Mixed Emotions 🥴

[josru]

a little rant:

If you need to understand one thing about the Bear subreddit, here it is.

It's not a supportive place for women, let alone black women/women of colour. (Not surprising, as reddit is male and white dominated.) Sydney gets mad hate for daring to be apart of the main relationship in the show (that is now defunct), something that the writers wrote for her? Regardless if you see Sydcarmy as romantic or not. The whole point of the Bear is their partnership.

And yet the Bear fandom on reddit loves to diminish her role, and act as if Sydney is an uppity black woman who needs to be rid of. They act like it's surprising that people want to talk about her or like her. And they also think Sydcarmy is mad overrated and implausible. They bring it up constantly because it pisses them off that a sizeable portion of us love it.

Probably because Sydney is an actual character we can relate to and root for. But oh no, men don't like that because that means she isn't a perfect little white fantasy, and she has actual problems and ideas and speaks on them, and she's BLACK, god forbid!! And they could never have empathy for someone who wasn't themselves. Sydney is annoying to them because it reminds them they don't care about other people.

It's barely a place for white women too, because they only like you if you're a gf/therapist/not your own person. A flat, 2-D image with no problems. They don't care about Jess or Claire, they just want to fuck them. Even in this post, the respect of relatability and empathy is given to Richie in the title, because he finally "got some", despite the picture being of Jess. Like, great, guys, you diminished a woman (a PERSON) to being a "win" for a man, because that's all that matters, right? Whether or not a woman is a fuckable prize?

Even the writing of the show actually just pushes the whole "if women = gf, = only gf, nothing else" trope. So in a weird way, I guess I know where they're getting it from, but I expected more from adult men? My bad.

Women deserve to be more than someone's fantasy!! I am sick and tired of this misogynistic drivel. I also think it's fucked up how much of these dudes on reddit love Richie this much. Like, we get it, you think he's a self-help sigma alpha chad king now. Just keep ignoring the problems he keeps creating, how irritating he can be sometimes, as well as the fact that men picking up their lives will always have way more support than female characters. Richie is not some underdog character lol. The narrative of the show has made it clear he is very beloved and will have a nice, sweet arc.

Unlike Sydney, and Marcus, and apparently maybe even Tina. But yes, keep talking about how your white male character is the underdog who is being sooo mistreated and finally got something he deserved, even though in actuality, Syd and every other POC got treated like shit this season. It's like they swapped them, the real main characters, and made them the underdogs/tertiary while Richie has become so important. But it's key to reddit's white male victim complex that Richie is finally getting "good treatment" when he never suffered being completely ignored by the writers at all, and he was never at risk of that either.

[thoughtfulchaos773]

We're not done with this Richie thing.

Richie is the film director and observer of Carmy's love life.

He’s likes setting up a scene—he checks the lighting; I'd say he's almost more excited than Mikey about setting Claire up with Carmy because he observes that Carmy needs to loosen up a bit.

Richie also serves as an observer, primarily focusing on Syd and Carmy's relationship. In his typical fashion, he gives Carmy a hard time about his relationship with Sydney, like he did with Carmy's drawings of Claire.

As an observer with Sydney and Carmy, it's almost as if Richie makes comments for the audience, and that's the only time he gets involved as a director. He let's the two stars do their thing and will occasionally make observations and comments like he's an audience member but also immersed in the scene.

When Sydney makes this fruedian slip

Richie comments on the light or lighting levels - he says terms like, "Let's shoot." William Friedkin is his favorite director - he's the character that relates to the viewers.

So I wonder if this role for Richie changes in season 4. Will he step in like a director and orchestrate a moment for Sydney and Carmy- especially once he finds out Sydney is thinking about leaving?

Will he help Carmy resolve his relationship with Claire?

Thanks for reading!

Shoutout to:

@whenmemorydies for the back turned- director observation for Richie

@currymanganese for the genius meta on Richie being a avatar- Chris Storer inset.

@fresaton for calling out Richie's theories in his notebook.

Are you into the topic of Cinema and The Bear?

Check out:

Richie: The Director & Observer of Carmy's Love Life Part 2

You Don't Think I Can Do It Part 2

The Bear Season 3 & Cinema Inspiration

The Bear S3 & A Conversation with The Viewer

Claire Carmy Syd: The Haunting

Is There Meaning Here

Sleight of Hand

Season 3 -Surrealism and its Psychoanalysis of Carmy Berzatto

[yannaryartside]

This is still all about Donna

The cyclical aspect of abuse ft Chef David

So, I wanted to add to the discussion why Carmy pursued the star so intensely, to the point of inflicting self-punishment and isolation. Why would he focus his whole identity on the evil chef after all those other beautiful experiences he also got to live?

I am going to talk on broad terms because I don’t have any studies in psychology, so you can take it all with a grain of salt; I am talking just from personal experience/instrospection. I am also not saying this applies to all victims of abuse or all types of abuse. I am talking mainly about domestic/psychological abuse.

WHY IT ALL STARTED

On the opening night, a particular set of chemicals created an explosion in Carmy's mind. He saw a man who resembled the chef who tortured him psychologically and abused him. So he goes back and starts a fight with Syd. She calms him down, but he feels lost and needs a pause, so he goes to the freezer but finds himself trapped. Then, the turmoil of flashbacks comes in of Donna and Chef David, while he thinks he failed his team and confirms the belief that he is indeed worthless, no good, and a waste of space. Donna installed this belief in Carmy, and Chef David revived it.

So he blames Claire, a relationship that (regardless of not being particularly deep or healthy) was bringing him happiness, and he decides to commit to the lie that he needs to sacrifice things that make him happy to be good (chef). At this point, Carmy has equated his worth as a human with his ability to produce a certain quality of work as a chef.

THE CYCLE

Maybe the most vile thing about abuse is its cyclical nature. If you have been abused, particularly since childhood, even if you manage to leave the environment where the abuse took place, there is a high chance you will end up in another abusive relationship/situation.

Abuse breaks your perception of self and the world around you; because of that, every relationship you have, or situation you establish will be defined by that broken perception.

Carmy grew up in an abusive household, believing there was something wrong with him that made his mother reject him and prefer his older brother. From what we can gather, none of Carmy's interests and personality traits were appreciated or encouraged in that house (besides cooking), so he was a child "terrified of speaking." He didn't have friends who could help him understand or accept himself; he missed that in very formative years. Michael (the brother he compared himself to) ended up being the real parental figure in his life (Michael divides himself between teasing him and encouraging him).

Carmy learns to love cooking because of his connection with Michael. Then Michael makes him feel rejected by casting him out. Carmy goes abroad and has really amazing experiences that allow him to know and accept himself. He gets to feel like a child again, finding and cultivating the things that he loves.

Then he finds a chef boss who is also abusive. Donna comes to life in the face of Chef David, and Carmy (who has become almost the best at this point and could have just left this place) accepts the abuse because he is afraid that both Donna and David are right, that there is something fundamentally wrong with him no matter how hard he tries.

So he goes into this season in freeze response, screaming at others because he can hear the evil chef in his head telling him how much of a waste of space he is; he needs to fight it, so he screams at everyone to have the same standard he has to obey or get killed. He is acting entirely out of fear that they are going to get him killed because they are “not perfect” or “too slow.” Because he can still feel the threat of the ghost of Chef David saying horrible things to him as he cooks. This is about self-preservation.

Also, isolation is a form of self-punishment, and he believes he needs to resolve this on his own.

THE CLAIRE PART-SELF PUNISHMENT

He tells himself that he cannot be with Claire because that is who he is and that he doesn't deserve such a good thing if it endangers the only thing that brings him value, cooking. He doesn't deserve this love that, for the first time, doesn't seem to require a big amount of sacrifice on his part. He spent most of the season reminiscent of that affection. He said she brought her peace, but I think he just meant she didn't feel worthless for once. It looks like not having girlfriends or friends (lack of meaningful connections that accept him for who he is) is a big source of insecurity for him.

The relationship was empty and superficial but was the best he had ever felt; Claire made him feel like there was nothing wrong with him, (to the point of being an enabler, yes), but it was still better for him than feeling rejected most of his life.

His most significant relationships (Mickey and Donna and sometimes Nat and Richie) were based on a push-and-pull mechanic that created an emotional distance, and he has spent most of his life trying to earn his mother's love, while he felt he didn't have to make an effort to earn Claire's love, even the most basic emotional responsibility (never apologize). The show even showed you that the relationship between Claire and Carmel would have happened if she hadn't done most of the work, emotional or otherwise.

Case in point: Sydney, a person with whom he has a lot in common, an unspoken telepathy, and a bond that can get him out of panic attacks (his previous unhealthy beliefs), is the person with whom he has the most trouble establishing a relationship because of the plot (based on his mental health), even after three seasons.

That was a lot, thank you for reading.

[xblackreader]

>> Quickly! Wheres the platonic relationship yall swear you prefer?

Is it in the prolonged eye contact, the lack of natural conversation in lieu of flattery or the FORGETTING WHAT UPS IS.

[portrait-of-ariel]

I find myself thinking a lot about what Carmy would do/feel if Sydney actually left The Bear. Claire is nothing compared to Sydney, and losing her would destroy him.

[outmakingmoonshine]

I was just writing a post about the Carmy/Faks scene & how it's really just Carmy talking to himself. For this scene the two Faks represent his inner voices/subconscious (which might only apply to this scene idk), but then I decided to see what all these scenes looked like together and wow am I glad I did!! Seeing these 4 scenes side by side is very interesting.

The first two scenes in 3x05 & 3x07 mirror each other, the last two scenes in 3x09 mirror each other and all 4 of them tell their own story together. The first scene is Carmy's talking to himself but shouting & aiming it at anyone who's listening. The 2nd is Syd talking to herself but mostly mumbling so only she can hear. In the Faks scene Carmy's having an "imaginary" conversation out loud with two people, just like Syd's doing in the last scene rehearsing what she might say to both Adam Shapiro and Carmy.

And if you rearrange these scenes & put the first 2 after the Faks scene, if we saw/heard those sarcastic "that makes sense" comments after we saw the "Claire is peace" scene in that exact same location, it would've been a lot easier to figure out what they're really referring to!

There are lots of layers to unpack here but I'm gonna talk about the main things that jump out at me. This is probably gonna be a bit chaotic with different ideas and breakdowns of what things could mean so I hope it's not too confusing. Anyone else feel free to jump in with your thoughts.

Below the cut

Notice how in all these scenes, except one, Carmy and Syd are alone talking out loud to themselves, vocalizing their inner thoughts. Mute the video and just read the subtitles if you need to. The scene with the Faks reads like a conversation with imaginary friends or like the two funny inner voices of a character in a comedy movie. All these scenes are like they're from a comedy movie tbh.

In the first two scenes Carmy & Syd act the same way they both deal with their problems (Carmy shouting about it to anyone who'll listen and Syd pissed but mostly keeping it quiet/to herself). They're the only ones actually inside the dumpster in all the scenes which makes me think it represents their minds and the boxes are the mental chaos & thoughts they're trying to sort through. The Faks are technically outside Carmy's mind/the dumpster so they don't speak from the mind or for the mind but they're close to it, communicating with it & "helping" sort through the chaos. Maybe the dumpster represents the conscious mind and the Faks are Carmy's subconscious. It sounds like The Faks are encouraging Carmy to fall back into his base programming, which people often tend to do when they're lost and don't know what to do. They're trying to convince him to call Claire bc Carmy's base programming from his family is "Claire is good". That's what safe to him bc it's a "truth" he's always known & believed. Idk there's many possibilities. It's also Interesting how later this episode The Faks go to Claire and speak directly for Carmy like they know for sure what he's thinking & feeling.

Lets get into the dialogue of the first two scenes:

"[Carmy] That makes sense. [box clatters] Boxes full of bullshit. Put it on the f*cking list. Oh, it's good. I'll do it. I got it. I got it."

Just a side note: The next line in the script is "I don't know wha-what I'm supposed to do with all this stuff" from Marcus in the next scene where he's clearing out all his mum's stuff with Syd.

"[Syd] 'Cause why would you do it? I mean, you're supposed to do it. This is-- This is fine. This is good. This makes sense. This is f*cking… F*ck. F*ck. [pants] [muttering] F*ck. [growls] fcking-- Where are the fcking Faks? F*ck!"

I don't even know where to start, there's so many ways to read this!

Carmy said one specific thing in the Faks scene that very clearly "didn't make sense"...Claire is peace. He knows that's not true but I think the point is he's been avoiding thinking about who his peace actually is all S3*. Carmy & Syd are both sarcastically saying "that makes sense" like it's subtly referring to that scene later in the same place. Was the panic attack scene by the same dumpsters? Idk someone let me know please.

*Carmy said in 3x07 he tries to avoid thinking about legacy. The only legacy we know of is the one he's trying to build with Syd both professionally and personally. His realization that Syd's brings him peace in the panic attack in 2x09 is the reality of his legacy that he's been trying to avoid all S3. He's working to get her his star and creating dishes inspired by her so Syd's cearly on his mind but the one thing he should be thinking about and talking to her about, he's avoiding.

There are many different layers of possible meaning and/or foreshadowing in this dialogue, but one layer it can be read is how they're both thinking/feeling about the Claire situation bc even tho Syd didn't mention it all season it's still there between them. Maybe none of this is about Claire, but if it was:

Carmy: "[sarcastically] that makes sense"...claire is "peace". "Boxes full of bullsh*t"...he's full of bullshit that Claire's his peace?!! Or maybe Claire is in the boxes of bullshit aka his baggage and past trauma he needs to sort through? "Put it on the "f*cking list"...put Claire on the list of his stress & baggage? And a very sarcastic "Oh it's good. I'll do it. I got it. I got it." He'll do what he's "supposed to do" with Claire & call her/apologize/maybe even be with her even tho it clearly sounds like he doesn't want to..?? He's "got it"...even though he clearly doesn't. "It's good" but she's clearly not The Good Thing™.

Syd: "Cause why wouldn't you do it? I mean you're supposed to do it"...why won't carmy just sort himself out? why wont he just call claire/be with claire since Syd thinks that's what he wants & she acts in front of him like "it's not her place to be [beside him on a personal level]" almost direct quote from her in 3x09. She's probabaly confused why Carm just wont be with Claire. From Syd's perspective he changed his mind about her and chose Claire in S2, so the next logical step is he'd be with Claire. "This is fine. This is good. This makes sense."...carmy saying claire is peace & also probably how she'll react out loud if carmy/claire get back together. "This is f*cking… F*ck. F*ck. [pants] [muttering] F*ck. [growls] fcking--"...this is how she really feels about the whole Claire situation & Carmy just ditching her & "changing shit" (that came up a lot this season), which ultimately led to him not treating her like a partner in their professional relationship. "Where are the fcking Faks? F*ck!"...a direct lead in to Carmy's scene in the exact same place 2 episodes later.

Sydney's dialogue in 3x07 scene also reads like a run-on of Carmy's dialogue in 3x05, continuing his thoughts trying to convince himself of what he should do with Claire but he's panicking so he calls for the Fak's, his imaginary friends/inner voices, who are there with him the next time we see him in that spot. From the dialogue it makes sense but idk if we've ever seen the show do that with Syd before so idk. Sydney is clearly definied as her own character but she is definied as a mirror of Carmy too so it's a possibility.

Of course this is all interpretation, some or none of this could be directly about Claire but idk. The location (esp if it's in the same place he had the 2x09 panic attack), all the "coincidental" dialogue, the way all these scenes tie together...and with the panic attack scene and the opposing realizations Carmy comes to about Syd & Claire in 2x09 & 3x09. It wasn't a "realization" about Claire in 3x09, he didn't even look like he believed what he was saying tbh. It looked like he just made it up on the spot.

It's also interesting that these scenes by the dumpsters are the quivalent of S1 & 2's walk in scenes where both Syd & Carmy go for a moment of peace to clear their thoughts and "cool off". We don't see those this season but we do get these which is more like them sorting out all the chaotic thoughts & feelings inside them, separating the "trash" from the good stuff, "the bad from the good" like Carmy said he wanted/needed to do to achieve his legacy in 3x07.

In the Faks scene listen to all the "we" and "us" talk;

"If we did it when it was scheduled. We do though. We do it, Carm. All we do is break down boxes. We break 'em down and we have to do it again. Who would wanna haunt us? Who's pissed at us? Sammy's pissed at us."

Until Claire is mentioned (a sobering thought for Carmy) and it's suddenly "Not us. Just you. Not us." Reality hit for a moment and the imaginary friends want to separate themselves from him because they're not "real" & they didn't upset Claire so she can't be mad at them. I think Carmy is the only "real" one in this scene. The Faks are the imaginary friends/inner voices that seem like they're helping the main character but they're really just causing more chaos and leading him down the wrong path because they're misunderstanding what he wants based on what he's forcing himself to think about; Claire. (I lowkey think Carmy's forcing memories of Claire to stop himself from thinking about Sydney.)

The transition of Carmy talking to himself with The Fak's representing two parts of his mind aka "two minds" going straight into Syd talking to herself & voicing out loud what she'd say to both Shapiro and Carmy like she's having a mental conversation with two different people and that she's in "two minds". "I wanted to start off by saying I'm grateful" sounds formal and directed at Adam Shapiro. "Ok so I wanted to talk to you..." sounds more personal and directed at Carmy. It's a similar concept of being in two minds used in a slightly different context but in this show and the writing specifically, context is all over the place anyway.

Also the transition into the Syd scene is to drive home the point that Carmy was just having a conversation with himself, trying to convince himself that Claire is peace, she's "good" etc. For this scene (and possibly this scene only) Theodore is the stubborn part of Carmy that doesn't like to be pushed around who thinks stuff like "Yeah but I'd see his ass" about Sammy Fak. And you know there's a part of Carmy that would have that attitude but the conscious part of him is smarter than that. Neil is the more sweet, anxious side of Carmy that is kind of "away with the fairies" a little bit, in his own head a lot. Carmy is the regular, conscious, "real" Carmy trying to figure out the mental mess he's in.

I think transitioning into that Syd scene was also to callback to the only other times Syd or Carmy spoke aloud to themselves. I might be forgetting something but I think all these scenes are the only times we see either of them have full conversations with themselves out loud in S3..? Someone let me know if that's wrong please.

Side note- From one perscpective: Carmy's reaction to Theodore calling Claire "a piece of ass" was so...unaffected??! Could you imagine if someone said that about Syd?? He bit Richie's head off for calling her "sweetheart" in 1x01 and physically put himself between them so I can't imagine he'd take it that lightly if it was about Syd...From another perpective, if this scene is all about Carmy's inner thoughts, is he asking himself if that's how he sees Claire? I don't think he does intentionally but it's a valid question considering the show seems to use physical intimacy as a substitute for any real connection between them. If Claire & Carmy never kissed or had sex, would anyone see that relationship as a romance?? I really don't think so tbh, the physical initmacy is the only thing about their scenes that confirms it's supposed to be seen as a romance. Meanwhile SydCarmy are drowning in real connection before any physical intimacy.

Anyone please feel free to jump in and add your thoughts, I'd love to know your perspectives on seeing all these scenes together @thoughtfulchaos773 @sydcarmyfan @yannaryartside @currymanganese @vacationship @afrofairysblog @greekyogurttragedy @tvfantic87 @moodyeucalyptus @gingergofastboatsmojito @ambeauty @whenmemorydies @brokenwinebox and anyone else who wants to jump in is welcome to.

[sydcarmyfan]

Antis: Carmy doesn’t see Syd in that way.

Carmen Anthony Berzatto, seeing Syd in that way:

[curtsies-from-princess-ashlyn]

I cannot for the life of me understand why the writers are still dragging the Claire storyline out. If we, the audience, are supposed to feel as anguished as Carmy is over losing her, I think the writers really failed. I really didn't see that their connection was so deep that Carmy would be this distressed over their breakup - even if it was due to something insensitive he may have said. Having multiple characters continue to push him to rectify his relationship with Claire feels so forced, as well. If their relationship was something that I truly believed could be lasting, then I could probably connect to that emotional tension, but I had thought the entire purpose of his S2 storyline was that a step towards Claire was a step away from fulfilling his responsibilities to Sydney and their restaurant. His relationship with Claire was in direct conflict with his relationship with Syd, and he continually let her down until he finally realized he was letting himself be pulled in two different directions. His making amends with Claire should've been finished in the first few episodes - she's not a main character (she's not even a character who's developed outside of Carmy's POV), and I'm pretty sure she had more screentime than Marcus. These writers cannot write a manic pixie dream girl and expect audiences to actually believe in the strength of her relationship with the lead so much that they root for them. (I also still don't understand how Claire is supposed to have all this free time when she's a hospital resident)

If the goal was to sow this division between Sydney and Carmy, which will force them both to seriously examine their relationship next season, I get it and that can be fine. That's also sort of what happened in S2 already, but they can still further develop that idea in a meaningful way. I'm gonna be honest, I'm here for the writers to pair up Sydney and Luca for a time as a plot device ship. They have excellent chemistry, and I would love to see Sydney exploring a new relationship until Carmy figures his stuff out. It can be reinforce the strength and importance of Sydcarmy's relationship to each other.

Just to warn you all, though, Sydcarmy could either be headed the Rina route (Ricky and Gina from HSMTMTS) with a planned slowburn executed beautifully, or this could end up being a Bellarke situation (Bellamy and Clarke from The 100) where the writers have a vendetta against the romantic pairing, despite obvious romantic undertones. Whichever one happens is anyone's guess, at this point

[yezzyyae]

I hate Sydney Adamu so much I made my mom stay up 12am this morning so I can explain everything I hate about it! I really hate Sydney I hate how ppl make her out to be this savior or how she makes Carmy better which the fuck she don’t! Carmy did not need help from Sydney he was grieving his relationship with Mickey & his suicide. Dealing with “The Beef” which is a family restaurant but Sydney came in being this arrogant person that Carmy needed her help! Carmy didn’t need help with the menu or the design of the restaurant. I don’t know why Sydney is even there acting like he needs to call her for every approval. Only Natalie & Jimmy & Carmy needs to communicate because they are the ones with the money. Not Sydney talking about she wants a “star” fuck her! Well go open your own restaurant Sydney & get your star ⭐️ fucking weirdo! Carmy needs to put his foot down & fire Sydney she can’t handle pressure, she oversteps Carmy’s boundaries(involving Claire), and she is not respectful to Richie at all! I don’t root for Sydney at all & I am a 34 y/o BLACK WOMAN FROM Philadelphia! Sydney is not a good person she is hurt that’s why she came in the restaurant hurting Richie & even hurting Carmy by putting pressure on him. Smh she don’t respect anyone’s boundaries but want hers respected! And Sydney can’t cook I stand by it name one meal she made that everybody liked smh not one time!

Carmy don’t even know she stalked his whole career & life! She lied when she was asked “why she want to work there” she is a creepy weirdo! Even her not telling Carmy that her mom is dead when she was talking about the annual dinner her & her father have is soo weird! Like Sydney wtf why imply that your mother is still alive she is a weirdo! I hate her character and everything she stand for smh 2 seasons of a headache!

And her vomiting 🤮 at the end of season 2 episode 10 better for her health and not some anxiety effect cause that’s just corny! She better be sick & not like anxiety took over her so much that night when she didn’t do anything but watch everything Carmy did which is not her job. Sydney is the CDC so that means Carmy can be anywhere do anything he wants but she have to have control of the restaurant w/out being a weirdo and questioning Carmy about why he going to Claire’s table 😡that made me soo pissed and when he told her to refire the “7 fishes” she argued back with him & he said “I’m sorry” 1st not her but 5 mins before she was arguing with Tina and didn’t think Tina should say anything back to her & do what she say. I am so confused how Sydney think Carmy can’t confront her or challenged esp in the kitchen it’s disrespectful to him & it’s weird. Every woman is not always correct I’m tired of them trying to make Sydney like she is the only sane person! She is disrespectful to Carmy esp in the kitchen she always saying something back always!

Carmy is one of the best chefs in the world and Sydney only had a catering business & she is impatient & green! I don’t understand why ppl think Carmy needs Sydney to be better. Smh it’s disrespectful to Carmy’s skills and accomplishments! Carmy got stuck in the walk in because he was arguing with Sydney then he had to say “I’m sorry” 1st. Smh which is not fair because when Carmy say something in the kitchen nobody should challenge him esp NOT FUCKING SYDNEY!

Sydney have no respect for Carmy! Sydney knows she can take advantage of Carmy. Smh Carmy deserves better his mind is already fragile. Sydney never gave him a hug or said “I’m sorry about your loss” so how is everybody so in love with Sydney. And Carmy had every right to scream & yell at Sydney for not being prepared & forgetting about the tab on the “pre-order” option! Sydney never accepts responsibility for her actions it’s annoying! Now a person can stab a person at work because Sydney is black which is bullshit because Carmy sent Richie to help make the sauce and Sydney being a bitch that she is & mad that Carmy finally saw her mistake took it out on Richie which is fucked up but nobody seems to see that!

[currymanganese]

don't know what I'd do,

without you.......

Scene lighting, blocking, & dialogue callbacks between Claire and The Berzattos

"The fantasy is what we're doing now, right here in this room, with these lights and cameras and mirrors..." -Martin Scorcese in The Bear S3x09, Apologies

tagging @brokenwinebox @whenmemorydies @thoughtfulchaos773 @bioloyg @caiusmarciuscoriolanus @thoughtfulchaos773 @prowitchazel @pureseasalt @turbulenthandholding @anxietycroissant @angelica4equity @imliterallyjustablackgirl @devisrina @inalltheirgorgeouscolors @falllpoutboy @vacationship @moodyeucalyptus @moments-on-film @uncriticalbunny @blackjack-15 @augustmonsooning @outmakingmoonshine

[gingergofastboatsmojito]

The C person is not even worth the trouble for him

Unlike Syd

So are we now finally ready to address the fact that when Carmen Berzatto REALLY LOVES SOMEONE and that person hurts him or disappoints him, he either lashes out walk-in style

OR cuts them off, puts distance between them, he doesn’t really fight back.

(Michael-Donna-his father whom he never tried to find or reconnect with, I’m sure there are more ppl we don’t even know about).

BUT

when he really loves someone and HE is the one who disappoints or hurts the other person or fucks up bad, he tries to make it up in the best way HE CONSIDERS fair (Syd, Sugar, Pete, Richie)

The good news is:

The C person doesn’t fall in either category because HE fucked up and HE didn’t try to make it up to her in any way, shape, or form, he cut her off.

SO

That can only mean 3 things coming from him:

1- He doesn’t love her therefore he doesn’t feel is necessary to make it up to her, even though he feels guilty about the whole thing, she’s not enough of a priority for him, hence: he doesn’t even bother in repairing that relationship, even though he’s fully aware HE fucked up.

OR

2- He doesn’t even feel he fucked up at all, he actually deep down thinks he did the right thing, he’s only PARTIALLY sorry about the whole thing, he’s absolutely NOT sorry about what he did, said, chose, etc. He’s ONLY sorry about C getting hurt as a result, but then again, since she’s NOT that much of a priority to him and he does have more important things to do like getting a star for Syd to make it up to her for having failed her repeatedly and having left her alone, etc, which ARE indeed his priorities, then he just keeps putting the whole apology to C in the back burner and kinda hopes it eventually dilutes in time… like a “I’ll deny it till it goes away bc she moved on and what’s the point of apologizing now anyway…” kinda thing.

OR

3- A combination of both <— my pick.

He will have to grow at some point and understand it just doesn’t work like this. That he can’t keep on cutting people out of his life because he’ll wind up alone. That he can’t be his own judge and choose his own sentence when he commits a crime and that nothing he just buries deep down inside, actually goes away just because he chooses not to address it.

And I think that the lesson this fucker taught him:

by breaking him and making him realize that he’s actually better than his abuser. (Carmy is a better person than that asshole even as fucked as he is) Is actually one of the tools he needed to turn this whole thing around and reach that level of maturity he’s lacking and therefore make a real change after he overcomes this crisis he’s going through.

I already addressed his immaturity here:

The other tool is that Sydney keeps believing in him. He cannot lose that, not totally, he has to continue counting on her for motivation, she’s the heart of his whole support system.

And Syd needs her own support system too, which in her case is now expanding. It’s no longer just her father. Everything she can't let go of is now her support system, her found family. They are bound already, whether she likes it or not.

So I’m sure they will be OK. I’m just sorry that trauma is the way Storer chose to go about it. There were easier ways.

But since the whole plot is based on their real lives, as I mentioned here, trauma it is.

S4 is gonna be glorious!

Carmy has already reached the breaking point this season:

but S4 is gonna be THE TURNING POINT.

[thoughtfulchaos773]

Jamie Lee Curtis: A sydcarmy truther?

Compare this to her other sydcarmy post

Check out this post from @espumado

Well, isn't this interesting. Jamie Lee Curtis instagram, where she posts this Claire/Donna comparison with a Van Morrison song called "It Stoned Me," a song about Van Morrison experience as a kid:

@currymanganese made an awesome comparison to Claire and Donna. As well as @brokenwinebox

I wouldn't say she's a claire carmy shipper. But claire has been apart of shaping carmy to who he is today.

But Jamie also posted Carmy's future with another Van Morrison song - a love song! Take a listen:

Funny enough, @moodyeucalyptus this is a sydcarmy song had she had to pick one!

A review of the song:

"Over the endlessly descending, circular progression, Morrison sings positive lyrics about nature and a romantic partner, seemingly beginning in the middle of a thought: And I will stroll the merry way."

Tagelist: @currymanganese @brokenwinebox @outmakingmoonshine @vacationship @whenmemorydies

[yannaryartside]

SYDNEY'S PART

THE ANALOGY OF THE PARTNER WITH ADDICTION

I just realized this parallel, and I have questions and feelings.

This second scene was one of the most frustrating moments for me, and that is saying a lot. It made me realize the crucial factor that could contribute to Sydcarmy not working despite the underlying feelings and connection.

The scene is obviously about how Sydeny feels guilty for not being able to stand to Carmy and make him stop the chaos. Maybe is also about feeling sad because she doesn't think that he wants to change for her, because if that were the case, he would have done it already. He has verbalized that intention and always, always, leaves her alone and behind (It is hard to keep with you sometimes).

I have been wrestling with the theory that Carmy's and Syd's relationship is acting as an analogy for an addict and their romantic partner. I have been reading this book: Loving someone in recovery. I still need to finish it, but it has given me some ideas. More extended meta-analyses on this subject are coming up. But I wanna concentrate on what the scene is hitting at (I miss ao3).

Notice in Brigade, the woman also says, "until the chemistry changes.", then in the very next scene, you have Sydney decipher a recipe just by chemistry logic, leaving Carmy impressed, and right after, carmy puts Sydney in charge of the restaurant. The clues are all there.

Also, notice how the woman at AA refers to the abuse of substances, but in Carmy's case, it also means abuse in the literal sense, verbal, psychological, and physical abuse.

The show has many scenes in which Sydney treats Carmy's issues with compassion and a firm hand.

"I don't want to be an asshole" "Don't be" aka: I know you know what is right and wrong despite feeling like shit, don't let it get over you.

She keeps her cool while Carmy makes impossible demands and screams. She helps Tina with her dish and completes the task without ever insulting or yelling back at anybody. The toxic techniques that Carmy learned that worked in the culinary industry, she refuses to accept as the norm. She is a chef Terry.

Finding the positive in the worst circumstances, aka, saying Cicero "You are here" or encouraging Richie and the staff. Even reviewing Carmy's recipes with patience and humor

"Is hard to keep with you sometimes' is key word here sometimes, aka: "because the problem is your issues, not you. You are a good person who is deeply hurting, but your actions have consequences for me and the people around you".

The thing is, if we are gonna talk about a partner with addiction, we need to establish the problem (the trauma) and the drugs. I remember watching a movie about addiction, a nurse saying, "Drugs are never the problem (for an addict), they are the solution.

So, the problem (the trauma)

The drug (solution)

You already know my theory that Claire is the equivalent of painkillers/anesthesia. A shallow but pleasing relationship that is always available to attend to your flaws without ever being actual medicine. Because to get better, painkillers are never enough.

BACK TO SYD

Syd really doesn't believe she has a say in what Carmy wants, (God she even believes she is not what Carmy wants, because he wants Claire, that is what it seems to her) just right before this dialogue, she asks him "Do you want me to say something?", from reading the book, it really reminded me of a partner feeling abandoned when the addict would resource to their drug of use to feel good or set back to old habits. That would leave the partner frustrated, depressed, and angry.

To be fair, the fact that Carmy is his boss should be added to the equation. They cannot even be called friends, so why should Sydney say something? Carmy is 24/7 in defense mode, saying things like "You don't have to say it, I already know."

He offered Syd equal partnership, but she didn’t get it. If they had been equal partners she definitely has the power to say something. But she didn’t take the offer, maybe because she suspected (or feared) they would never be on equal ground.

THE KEY QUESTION IS, WHAT DOES SYDNEY SAY?

I am genuinely curious about this. Is Syd (or her leaving) supposed to be a wake-up call to Carmy? That he fucked up something that brought him genuine joy and connection because Syd knew the real him, while Claire liked Logan and Carmy's brokenness? The way Claire would enable him in his bad tendencies? How is he gonna realize all that?

Sydney needs more emotional resources when it comes to conflict resolution. So far, her techniques have been using patience and love (water) against toxicity and bad patterns (fire). There is definitely a need for that. That is what turned everybody around and helped them become their best selves. But it has a toll. And she started the season with "I don't know what the fuck to do right now" and ended the season without a solution. Maybe walking away is the solution.

SYDNEY'S PART

What could this mean for Syd? Sydney may confront Carmy or not. I guess we will have to see.

[falllpoutboy]

so im slow but why i just realized the first words carmy says to sydney in s3 are “i’m so sorry” yet he freezes and ultimately can’t find it within himself to apologize to claire the entire season… it makes you think right…