#anti claire bear

[strawberryscare]

can’t stop thinking abt the only time we see carmy wear a The Beef tshirt is when he cooks dinner for claire. you know, the piece of clothing he refused for all of season 1 (when their restaurant was Actually called that) and asked everyone else to switch OUT of (to white shirts and blue aprons).

something something claire fundamentally does not allow carmy to grow as a person + represents carmy’s backsliding into his past something

[portraitofariel]

Controversial Post

Carmy used Claire.

An opinion I have yet to come across in the discourse regarding the dreaded Carmy/Claire pairing is the following--Carmy was fully content never calling/making Claire his girlfriend. Because he never had to do anything to get her to like him. She provided pussy, car rides, an ear to bounce ideas off of, no resistance or intellect, and no effort he had to put in.

Allow me to elaborate.

From their first interaction at the market to the moment in the walk-in, Claire has been a nuisance in his life. She consistently disregarded his boundaries in the following ways:

Ignoring the fact that he struggled to remember her name; there's also no mention of her last name to this day.

Misreading their initial conversation at said market and not reading his body language for what it was: a lack of interest in her. If a woman has to ask a man for his number and he doesn't ask for hers, he isn't interested in pursuing things further. Argue amongst yourselves about that.

Numbergate. In the real world, this would be extremely concerning. Skirting around someone's clear sign they don't like you by giving you a fake number is a huge red flag. It screams desperation and a lack of self-respect. Who chases a man that purposely obstructs their advances then goes to his good friend to extract information? Shame on Fak as well for giving out Carm's private information to a woman he hasn't mentioned in five years. wtf Fak.

When she does call him, she badgers him to get a clear answer as to why he gave her a fake number, instead of taking the hint when she realized it was fake. Once again not taking his hesitance while dictating the numbers to her as a sign he doesn't want her.

"Speaking of dead brothers, do you wanna go to a party?" wtf even was this. By Claire's own admission, she and Carmy never talked in their youth. She essentially hung around his family but never interacted with him so why is she so obsessed with him? I will never understand this. Her tasteless attempt at breaking the ice regarding Mikey's death is so heavy-handed and odd.

Freezergate. Even before she found out he was stuck in the walk-in, what was Claire's urgency to get to back-of-house? Why would she think it would ever be appropriate to just walk back there? Sugar's husband, Pete, has never done that in the show so what makes Claire think she's special enough to do so? I always wonder what might have happened had Sydney been back there when Claire crossed that boundary.

Now the juicy part. Unpacking Carmy's disinterest.

Ever notice that Carmy only ever asked her surface-level questions about her life? He never asked about her interests outside of work, her family, her passions, her last name, or anything else. The entire relationship is on Carmy's terms/timeline. Nothing we've seen on-screen indicates he's been to her apartment or hung out with her friends (aside from that one juvenile ass party in 2x05). Every time they have sex, it's at his place. The overwhelming majority of their conversations center around his needs/grievances about the restaurant. He never buys her flowers or gifts (cooking dinner one single time doesn't count), never has deep conversations with her about her, nor did he call her his girlfriend until Sydney, of all people, pressured him to do so. The subsequent conversation with Fak, "is Claire my girlfriend? What's a girlfriend?" is bullshit. Carmen has been around couples his whole life. He knows what a girlfriend is. He knows what a wife is. He's a 30+ year old man who surely had romantic interests before and after Claire. He just didn't want her to be his girlfriend until he felt immense pressure from his circle to make her that.

How do I know this? In 24 hours, Carmy went from "I love her a lot" (and this is only after Fak straight up asks him if he loves her) to "I like her". In the course of one day, he went from love to like. That says it all. Not to mention this is after the mother of all panic attacks where his hidden feelings for Syd bubble to the surface. A lot of people forget that Carmy is a man and because of this, he does what men tend to do. Whether he was conscious of it or not, he took advantage of a desperate girl like Claire because she threw herself at him with abandon. She willingly put herself in a position to be used by a man she barely knew, then cried to Richie when things didn't go her way. Their 'relationship' went the way it was always going to go because I'd argue she was never truly his girlfriend. Claire was a stopgap between the restaurant and Carmy running away from his problems.

[eeeeehhhhhkiszka]

Listen, Claire chased Carmy. Carmy gave her the wrong number on purpose and she still pushed her way into his life. She essentially forced him to accept her which is what has happened to Carmy his entire life. He’s basically never chosen anything for himself… he’s just had people push and poke and prod him into “deciding” (not deciding, just doing what’s expected). He became a top chef to spite his brother. He inherited The Beef. He inherited an entire staff. Nothing was what he chose.

Carmy chose Syd. Carmy chose The Bear.

[radio-ghost-cooks]

its so wild to me how ya'll don't understand the point of Claire

Claire feels wildly out of place in The Bear bc she IS wildly out of place.

when Carmy gave her a fake number (which most people would understand as turning them down) she asked Fak for the real one. from day fucking one she just strong-armed herself into Carmy's life.

all she did was drag Carm back into the man he was before coming back to Chicago bc that's all she knew him as. and Carmy being his anxious, scared self let her bc it was something easy to fall back into when everything else around him was so hard.

Claire isn't meant to be one of those well-developed main characters we're so used to in The Bear. she's meant to be the last thing holding Carm back.

[glitterslag]

I just remembered that it's insinuated that Claire used to be nerdy or whatever back in high school. Like in 2.06, Richie I think it is, says she's hot now, as if she never used to be. In old photos/carmy's memories, Claire's pictured wearing glasses. Mikey and Richie say "the glasses came off" - like that trope in movies where the nerdy/awkward girl character takes off her glasses and everyone sees she was beautiful all along.

It's interesting that that's how Richie and Mikey viewed her because it's not the view that we get of Claire when she's first introduced at all. Maybe it's cause we first see her through carmy's eyes, but she seems like she's always been the cool, hot popular girl, or at the very least the pretty girl from down the street. And she certainly seems pretty confident.

When they're in the car together, Carmy says something like "you had so many friends back then." I get that her being nerdy doesn't necessarily have to mean she was unpopular, but it just seems a little incongruous with the former view of her.

Anyways then we have Syd, who went home after her first shift at the beef and typed up a business plan thicker than the fucking bible for extra credit🥹🥹🥹 Syd who's portrayed as the awkward, (loveably) nerdy girl from the start. Very much not the cool girl, but very much being herself. And it's clear that carmy is so fucking endeared by her right off the bat too. And he respects her, and he's in awe of her, and sometimes she makes him a little nervous.

I guess what I'm saying is, Syd doesn't have to be the cool hot sexy mirage of a woman that Claire is for Carmy to be endeared by her and awed by her and nervous of her. He just likes her for who she is.

[vacationship]

Claire got fake numbered and she’s brutal af

I'm sorry, someone anyone tell me this scene is not BRUTAL just on the page. To anyone that says Claire is just being playful or assertive or not limited by gender rules (Molly Gordon included though generally I like her take on things) ... I want to say just read the scene without the pretty girl to look at and see what's right here. She is alternately coy and aggressive because she's probably a mean girl, and she can't stand that he fake numbered her and she won't let him get away with it because she's entitled to his attention and help? It's not cute. She acts like she really wants his consent to have his number in the middle somewhere but honestly that is like perfunctory and performative at that point. And she goes right back to tease-bullying him.

I hold my breath and wince the whole way through this scene, every time. It is blow after blow, under the guise of being what? Empowered and direct? Or she just doesn't know the impact she's having? Has her teenage brain taken over? Because she doesn't really know Carmy, or care what being Carmy is actually like for Carmy. Maybe some other asshole would handle her BS differently. No but it's sooooooo uncomfortable for Carmy and for ME. WHAT IS THIS?!

I know there have been many very nuanced reads on this scene, but honestly it's so uncomfortable for me that I can't even think, it's just stuns me how actually brutal this scene is. Like did she treat him this way in High School? Anyway I fucking typed it out…

Hello

Did you really give me a fake number?

Claire?

Should my feelings be hurt? I think they're hurt.

No. No, no, no. Sorry, no. That must have, uh, been a mistake.

You know I know your entire family and all the Faks, right?

You know all the Faks?

Yeah, I know all the fuckin' Faks. And they're gonna beat you up.

There are, um, there are a lot of Faks. Yeah.

Why, just walk me through, giving me a fake number. Why?

No, no. 'Cause I, um I didn't mean, I didn't mean for that to happen.

I'm-I'm-I'm sorry. It was a mistake, okay?

Thank you. I really appreciate that. Well, I was originally calling before I found out I got fake numbered and had to ask Neil for your real number to ask if you were busy today. So now I have two questions.

Shoot, yeah.

Okay. One, is it okay that I have your number, or did you really not want me to have your number?

No, no, no, not. It's a-- I want you, I want you to have my number.

Okay, say that one more time.

I want you to have my number.

Okay. Cool. Are you busy today?

Um. So, I'm, I um.

Okay, can you just not make this weird? Like, I just need a favor. My cousin bailed on me.

....

Do you still have that van?

Yes. No, we do. We still have that van. Um, I am... in.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah, really.

Okay, I'll text you the address.

No, no, I know where it is.

Are you sure? 'Cause I'm worried about your number issue.

I know where it is.

You know what? I'll give my address to Fak. And then he can give it to you. Does that sound good? And then punch you in the face. Does that sound good?

No, no, I don't need Fak.

You know, he, um, he told me that you guys are really close and that he's your best friend.

Fak said that?

Mh-hmm.

No, no, no. Fak's not my best friend.

Really?

No, no, he is. He's probably my best friend.

That's interesting. To sit with. For you. Um, okay. I, uh, I will see you soon then?

Yeah, I'll see you soon.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay, bye.

Bye. (hangs up)

Fuck.

[sydneys-adamu]

rlly carmy. rlly. ur just gonna desperately ask your wife what’s wrong and watch her walk completely out of the room when she doesn’t tell u? literally twist ur whole body specifically to watch her walk out?? right in front of your pretend girlfriend?? in front of my salad???

30 years no parole someone eat the key

[thoughtfulchaos773]

Say the words

Doing a rewatch. Did we already discuss how Claire forcing Carmy to say "I want you to have my number" and "okay, say that one more time" equivelant to

Donna: Just say the words, Carm

Mikey: Just say the fucking words

Carmy: I love you.

Uncomfortable.

[cosmic-light-fics]

Claire Upset with Carmy vs. Sydney Upset with Carmy and How He Responds to Them - 2x03 "Sundae"

I feel overwhelmed by how many parallels Storer and Co. drew between Sydney and Claire and their respective relationships to Carmy in this season. Not only do the parallels serve to show Carmy's attachment to the past and his reluctance to join the present, but it also serves to contrast the way Carmy shows up for the people he cares about, more specifically how he shows up for the women he has feelings for. I think it's not only interesting how Carmy goes about showing up for both Claire and Sydney, but also how the women respond when they try to hold him accountable.

At the beginning of "Sundae", right after Carmy sends Sydney out so they can go have their palate cleanser at Kasama, Claire calls him. She is pissed off that he gave her a fake number, starting off the conversation with "Should my feelings be hurt? I think they're hurt." Her tone of voice is confrontationally upset while also carrying an air of trying to be sarcastically jokey, and it's affect is immediate on Carmy. He's tensed up, stuttering out an apology, immediately lying and claiming it was a mistake. He's not comfortable off the bat with the conversation and hunkers down on the lie when she continues to push him for answers. She also mentioned twice that she could have the Faks come and beat him up for giving her a fake number. It's a pretty awkward moment, not just because of how awkward Carmy is but because of how cornered he appears.

Carmy clams up when faced with Claire's anger and pressuring questions. When he agrees to help her move the furniture, it's not instant. He knows he has other obligations. But I think he felt some sort of obligation in that moment to make it up to Claire for giving her a fake number. And that's where we get him blowing off Sydney for the rest of the day.

Towards the end of the episode, after spending the day alone and unsuccessfully trying to reach Carmy all day, Sydney arrives at the restaurant and is surprised to find Carmy there. Then she finds out that the crew, with Carmy's knowledge and help, knocked down walls without calling her. She's not outwardly confrontational about the decision, but Carmy calls out her weighted silence. What's more, surprisingly, he pushes for her to tell him what's wrong. He asks what he could have done differently, and makes sure to let her know that he will do better to keep her updated. To have better communication with her.

Sydney is not the one pursuing answers in this situation, even though she has every right to. She is his partner in this business that they are building together, and she was left out of a fairly big decision. Instead of lying, instead of dodging her, instead of simply trying to quickly pacify her, Carmy explains why he did what he did without prompting, and he stands on it. I don't think that is irrelevant to this comparison. He was so avoidant with Claire and could easily have been with Sydney, but he made sure to tell her what he did and even promised to be better at communicating with her, unlike he did with Claire.

This whole parallel between Sydney and Claire revolves around communication and who Carmy feels more comfortable communicating with. Who he feels more comfortable taking accountability with. Who he's more willing to change for.

[myloveismineallmine]

was writing a seperate post about claire + carm and made a comment about how he avoids claire in a way that does not give a "infatuated, but nervous about how she sees him" vibes, but rather in a "treats their relationship as if it is a chore he wants to get done quickly" way. And then i fucking realized? that all of their dates ARE CHORES???

WALK WITH ME HERE...... where do they meet? at the grocery store. going to get groceries is what? a chore/errand.

their next date. that rude ass phone call. she asks (except she doesnt really ask?) him to help her mom move furniture. which is a WHAT? a chore!

he calls claire up and asks her to drive him to send mail. because at this point he's like ok i guess we do errands together? and those are our dates? yet another chore.

they go to the party after sending mail. this is the closest thing to a date and may seem like an outlier but i can stretch far enough to make it work. because the purpose claire gives to him for them to go is to take care of her friend who just got broken up with. as someone who personally has to do a lot of it, i would call this kind of thing emotional labor. which is a chore btw.

and lastly, the dinner. the "romantic" dinner. where carmy cooks claire dinner because she hints at wanting someone to cook for her. once more i will ask you: what is cooking dinner classified as? you know it, say it with me now- A CHORE.

no movies, no (other) restaurants, no picnics, no real date activities. just chores. which perfectly sums up how carmy perceives spending time with claire, it seems. also falls in line with how people tell carmy he should be with claire, because it's like people telling you you should do your chores. you agree, you probably should, but it doesn't make you really excited to go do it or anything.

i have another part of my song analysis that relates HEAVY to this that i will probably do next. honestly i think with that in addition to this, it's gonna be the final nail in the coffin for this relationship in terms of what it represents. hopefully none of you guys beat me to the punch on what that is, because i feel like even this makes it fairly obvious.

[portraitofariel]

Petty Post: Am I the only who finds Claire insufferable? Her voice irks my soul to the tenth degree. The baby, whisper-talking screams “pick me, choose me, love me”. Like girl please stfu.

[talleyuh]

honestly, i think that richie noticed that there was something going on between syd and carmy but was in denial.

richie, the faks, the berzattos, claire, that entire community has such a small town mindset. obviously chicago is not a small town, but all of the grew up there and intended on staying there through adulthood. richie had his kid in chicago, sugar is about to have a baby, and both of them will have only experienced chicago. claire still hangs out with the same people from high school.

carmy is a standout because he did the hard thing of moving to new york and living there. and people teased him for it. for them, cooking is a hobby, not a career. mikey and richie made jokes about carmy being a big shot chef while they were still running the beef in chicago.

like everyone else, claire has no desire to leave and explore. but sydney does, which is something that carmy has. i’ve been thinking about what possible passions or personality quirks claire had and there was none. her entire character is just a girl that richie, mikey, and carmy knew from high school.

sydney shows a glimmer of what his new life is. she didn’t know him before— she knows him now. she sees him as “carmy” not “bear”. she sees him for who he is not who he was. she sees him as the best chef in the world, her partner, her friend. she doesn’t belittle his accomplishments just because she doesn’t understand them. obviously two people with wildly different interests can be in a relationship, but they have to connect over something. they have to mutually choose to be with one another. carmy didn’t choose claire, she chose him and overstepped boundaries. syd never does that. she lets carmy be in control of their disagreements, which he needs. she’s nonconfrontational but he meets her halfway and always asks why. claire tells him what he did wrong and he over apologizes to make it go away.

claire as a character is nostalgia, a distant memory, the safe option. carmy as a character is constantly taking risks professionally and personally. the safe option— in chicago, what’s familiar, doesn’t work for him. he’s moved beyond it and just hasn’t realized it.

the whole point of graduating high school is growing up and moving on. meeting knew people, self discovery, and learning about the world. maybe richie (and mikey lowkey) is so immature at first because he never left chicago. he never got the chance to grow up and grow out of his life there. and it wasn’t until his stint in new york in season two where he got to mature and become one of my favorite characters on the show.

[ambeauty]

Me explaining to Chris Storer why Molly Gordon does not need to return for s3 😭

[vacationship]

carmy and his trauma w/ claire, scroll by if you're not up for trauma talk

(long post) I can't stop thinking about how Carmy has been stuck in and cycling through fight/flight/freeze mode his whole life pretty much--his mind and body trying to protect him from the physical, emotional, and relational trauma, all in attempt to return him to safety. f/f/f are useful protective responses that unfortunately operate on overdrive when there's been trauma. we are meant to return to calm after f/f/f, but without enough warmth and holding from others, that often means we get stuck in these protective responses.

and I can't stop thinking about how Claire finds him halfway in the freezer at the store, then calls him (distracts him) exactly when he is calling the fridge guy who would have made sure he wouldn't get trapped in the freezer, and by the end of she's left standing outside the freezer that he is now fully inside of. he says he did it to himself, and it's good he recognizes his part, but Claire pushed him repeatedly, pushed him into that freezer, just like his family pushes him and demands of him. (even Nat pushes him to respond to her calls, to meet her needs for being take care of, not saying she doesn't have a right to that reciprocation. even Sydney pushes him--read the COGS, to add her dish to the menu before he's ready for the restaurant to gain the kind of recognition that he knows it will--also not saying she shouldn't get to ask, Carmy is just wired and needs time and serious help.)

Carmy's re-acquaintance with Claire however pushed him both further into panic and further into deep freeze. Panic attacks often result from being or feeling physically/emotionally/psychologically trapped (in freeze) and the panic is the nervous system is trying to activate you out of that freeze and back into fight/flight so that you can return to safety, but it just has waaaayyyy overshot it's goal and now you are in panic instead of useful activation and mobilization.

when Claire finds him in the store he's already basically operating in f/f/f for some time, in fact he's halfway in the freezer (freeze is the last resort protective response of the three) and he now goes into a bit of extra freeze. he definitely knows who she is, but he's blanked her name or knows her name but is trying to not engage. running into someone from your past who you had a private crush on or fantasy about, and men in your life teased/bullied/outed you about, at an already intense moment of his life (Mikey's suicide)... all that and Carmy didn't stand a chance here. He was primed for his trauma response to go haywire and eventually into high panic and deep freeze. he knows it won't be good for him to get with her, that's why he gives her the wrong number.

people with this level of unprocessed trauma don't have an easy time with dating just anyone, especially a young person who hasn't built up enough safe experiences with other people yet. i'm not gonna say he needs therapy before a relationship, but he does need help and he would need a partner to understand his trauma and how relational closeness, intimacy, and particularly being pursued and pushed and teased will create an environment where his trauma will be activated

there's enough said on here about Claire's behaviors, and also Carmy's, and the nature of their "relationship" which i also have many thoughts and feels about. Carmy hasn't been doing right by anyone really, certainly not himself, but he's taken the step to do al-anon recovery work and that's something. and he MELTS with Sydney, from the moment he met her he melts a little and takes that woman IN as he gazes at her and feels seen by her (so different from his object gaze for Claire, Carmy gazes at Sydney as a subject)... but the sydcarmy melt is another post. all this is to say his trauma is real, and needs real consideration.

[sydneys-adamu]

claire: anything else you’re thinking about? (last thing she asks)

sydney: what are you thinking about? (first thing she asks)

and whom does carmy ask in return what she’s thinking as well? hint it’s not claire.

I think the most tragic thing is that this scene cements more than any other the simplicity of claire being a soundboard for carmy’s feelings and not much else. the time that’s not spent getting to know her but still being told we need to care about her feels so abrupt because that’s the exact place she holds in his life. someone he’s told to love but can’t list three good reasons why. she says things like “no one’s tracking shoes” and “never ever apologize” and that’s enough because on paper that’s the exact thing carmy wants to hear.

but with sydney the narrative draws focus to both their worries and thought processes. it matters to him what’s going on with her just as much as being asked that question, unlike claire. plus the honesty that’s missing from the first scene syd is right there to provide. of course adapting and knowing what the next move is important for the restaurant because they have no choice. exactly what he *needs* to hear. and yeah it’s because they’re both equally worried about the fire suppression test, and obviously, sydney is a main character but it wouldn’t have killed carmy to ask claire what shit she’s got going on lol. homie isn’t that your gf?

these two ask this man the same question but get two entirely different carmys in response and it’s like night and day,,, incredible. and no it’s not “work carmy” and “relationship carmy” it’s “robot carmy” and “actual human carmy” it’s the difference it’s the juxtaposition it’s the poetic storytelling it’s-