#anti eddard stark

[brydeswhale]

I keep seeing this posts on Quora where people are like, “Ned wouldn’t have let Sansa marry Joffrey if he knew what he was really like.”

And it’s like…

Ned agreed to the betrothal so he could play Sherlock Holmes in King’s Landing.

He killed Sansa’s direwolf, a direct representation of her soul, without more than quick whinge.

He almost completely ignored her the entire time they were in King’s Landing.

He would TOTALLY honour the betrothal.

He’d feel bad about it. He’d mope a lot and feel sorry himself.

But if the truth had never come out, Sansa would have been trapped in King’s Landing with Joffrey.

Ned’s whole thing is that he’s a privileged nobleman who follows the status quo until he reaches the point where he can’t. And if the novels proved one thing, it’s that Sansa, her happiness, her life, is not that breaking point.

[agentrouka-blog]

This is such a small thing to be mad about, but Ned being all 'oh sansa you can't go to the tourney' in AGOT pissed me off. What do you MEAN you won't 'subject your daughters to this folly???' It's a tourney, fool! A special event that Sansa (as a highborn lady, daughter to the Hand AND the prince's bethrothed to boot!) would've been required to go anyways! It would've been an insult and weird af if she DIDN'T go! Just because you know its a waste of money doesn't mean Sansa has to suffer for it, the tourney's gonna happen no matter what, just let her have fun.

Gah, the more I think about the Sansa Ned stuff in AGOT the more I'm surprised Sansa didn't throw a tantrum especially at that age. Girly has more grace and patience than I ever could have.

It's painful to witness.

It's politically inept, making himself invisible to the public in this way. He's isolated at court. There's already been a violent incident and a rift between him and the king and the Lannisters. He won't attend the tourney in his own name. He's making them all look weak and irrelevant. He gathers no support, and the common people gobble up the idea that he commited treason later on. He made Sansa's life his cover story, he killed her wolf over it, and he's not even taking it seriously for his investigation, let alone its impact on Sansa at any level.

It's also so emotionally myopic, disregarding the one thing Sansa gets excited about since he murdered her wolf. Instead of trying to repair their relationship - instead of realizing it needs repairing! - he keeps taking his general frustration out on her. So slow to let her enjoy something, so quick to yell.

The Hound literally threatens to kill her at the end of the first day of the tourney. The daughter of the Hand of the King. Betrothed of the crown prince. Threatened and manhandled by an alcoholic child killer. Alone outside at night with no witnesses, no protection. Because she had no escort but one unreliable septa. At an event of this scale. And Ned couldn't be bothered to go with her. That's how weak they are.

And she never even tells Ned. Because she already internalized he would find a way to yell at her about it, cut her off from something she cares about, or maybe not do anything at all anyway.

And just look at when she actually does throw a tantrum out of sheer despair of being treated like an object. Does he finally try to talk to her, just once, just for a second? Of course not. He has important business to do walking into a trap.

The man set out to do a thing (solve Jon Arryn's murder), he was so determined that he sacrificed Sansa at the altar of this mission in every way, and he so objectively failed at it, it's almost hard to believe.

People act like Ned choosing to save Sansa's life at the end is somehow this super noble act. As opposed to once again throwing her under the bus? Literally letting her be killed for his honor this time, instead of Lady? Yeah, he chose not to do that. Wow. Dad of the year.

[alaynasansa]

I'm rereading Pride & Prejudice for the first time in years (and I wasn't interested in asoiaf the last time I read the book) and of course Lydia Bennet and Georgiana Darcy are giving me Sansa vibes (and Mr Bennet makes me think of Ned (not a compliment though at least Ned did the right thing in the end))

[rise-my-angel]

If I had a nickle for everytime fandom glorified some emo loser shitbag I wouldn't be poor anymore.

Everyone claims people loved Rhaegar but like no one can name a single friend he had that wasn't men who WORKED for him. He had no friends, he just played sad songs on his harp singing that no one wants to listen to his obsessive prophecy rants anymore.

He got crushed to death by a war hammer. The way Rhaegar died was cooler then he was as a living person.

Meanwhile Ned Stark is out here calling the King fat to his face, strangling a dude in the street in broad daylight for insinuating a joke about his wife, arguing with the Queen seconds after he woke up from a feverish sleep, and letting his kids all keep Wolf pups as pets that he KNOWS will grow to be the size of a fucking car.

Put up anything Rhaegar did and I'll match it with anything Ned Stark did but that he did it cooler more unhinged and didn't have to be a creep while doing it.

[silverflameataraxia]

Jonsas say Jon will do anything for Sansa and he's Sansa's hero and blah blah blah, but canon tells a different story.

Jon Snow straightened himself and took a long deep breath. Forgive me, Father. Robb, Arya, Bran...forgive me, I cannot help you. He has the truth of it. This is my place. "I am...yours, my lord. Your man. I swear it. I will not run again."

- Jon IX, AGoT

Sansa who? Sansa's not even in his thoughts, let alone the concept of helping her.

[pixiecactus]

lyanna and arya because the asoiaf fandom is the only fandom that can read this (if they actually did):

It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."

“Lyanna was beautiful,” Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.

“She was,” Eddard Stark agreed, “beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time.”

and this:

The rest of his father's words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood. Eddard Stark dissolved, like mist in a morning sun. Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout.

and think to themselves: "huh, wait is arya supposed to physically look like lyanna... but... but her childhood bullies said she's horsefaced...haha... ugly little girl...haha"

[emprcaesar]

lyanna stark means so much to me. i have made a post about her before and how she is the most enigmatic characters that is talked about a lot through the series but still no one seems to know her truly. which just amplifies the fact that she was just 16 years old when she died. she was an angry sad 16 year old girl that no one could understand. she wasn’t some glorified saint like robert remembers her as she wasn’t a tragic character in some play she was a real living breathing girl that was full of love and hope and anger. she wasn’t just one thing.

i believe that she willingly left with rhaegar but didn’t think it through completely because SHE WAS 16 and when she heard her father and brother died because of her she wanted to go back to her family but rhaegar was so obsessed without he prophecy that he made her stay.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice, “now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.”

she fucking screamed for her brother. in the end she wasn’t some brave she-wolf or a martyr she was a scared little girl who was impulsive and wanted her big brother to save her.

if you believe R+L=J theory (which i do) then her prodigal son who was never meant to be this ancient prophecy come to life is alone in the world and has no clue how much his mother would’ve loved him. but jon shoudlve never been born. lyanna shoudlve never been in that situation.

i’ve also seen a lot of people blaming lyanna and shit talking about her and that’s just flat out victim blaming because even if lyanna willingly went and was cool with being with rhaegar the whole time and was completely in love with him SHES STILL 16. and before you say it’s normal in the asoiaf universe it doesn’t change the fact she’s 16 and can’t make executive decisions like this.

i need to lie down.

@atopvisenyashill has amazing posts about this!!!!!!

[la-pheacienne]

The Catelyn never abused Jon conversation really goes out the window for me when Jon said SHE MADE HIM FEEL GUILTY FOR EATING. I know most of us are joking when we say he’s dramatic about her but some of you really think she was justified in her treatment toward him and um… well, no.

And “GRRM said she didn’t abuse him” yeah I know but GRRM also said Daenerys/Drogo wasn’t rape and that men who beat their wives can still be heroes. GRRM is obviously the author who decides what’s canon ie Catelyn never beat Jon, but he’s not the man who decides what abuse is and the way their way relationship is described is clearly abusive.

I mean, yeah. I agree. I will repeat what I said in my initial post, I don't care about specifically defining her behavior towards Jon, and I do take into account the author's intent. But the fact is that she was an adult, in a position of authority over a child, and she intentionally made him suffer for it throughout his childhood and adolescence and then rejoiced over his death penalty, or, if we want to be more exact, actively advocated for it. I'm sorry, these are facts. You can still like Cat or her chapters but this is Cat's characterization and if you want to be more chill with it because she is a woman/victim of patriarchy/redhead/whatever reason, then you can be, but this is personal to you. Snape is one of my fav characters in HP but he bullied children for a living and that's just a fact, I won't deny it. I liked the character but he was an asshole. I love Jaime but he did actively try to murder a kid. I won't deny that.

Being a woman is actually not an excuse for character flaws, because women are people and they should be judged or appreciated for their personality and not for their vagina. It goes both ways. Like tell me you like Cat despite the fact that she is a conservative, privileged and occasionally cruel person. Tell me you like her because she is strong, dutiful and loyal to her family, tell me you like her because you like her chapters. Don't tell me you like her because she's a woman and therefore can do no wrong. The reality is this : Cat actively ruined the life of an orphan kid that happens to be a fandom favorite and a main character. I am sorry, but of course she is going to get hate.

I actually don't hate her because I take into consideration the social norms in universe, and I do have sympathy for her. No, she is not the devil incarnate. If you want to think so, you can, but again that's something personal to you and does not apply to the story.

Also we like what we like. I love Ned as a character, I am pretty indifferent towards Cat. The reason I like him better is not because he is better than Cat or less responsible for all the shit that happened to Jon than Cat. I just like him better. It is that simple.

[viktoriakosci666]

A Big Reminder that THIS -

Will never in a million years, be this -

Lord Eddard Stark would NEVER force Arya to birth a man's children if she didn't want to - the man was proud of her learning to water dance.

[doloresabernathypiplup]

So, I watch the tenth episode of House of the Dragon and what they did with Aemond killing Lucerys and...

...

...

...

...

Ok, another big truth to reveal : the rivalry between the Clegane brothers is just a misunderstanding. Gregor didn’t want to burn his brother’s face, he just wanted to scare him. But, oh ! he slipped, fell on his brother and it pushed him in the chimney. So sad that Sandor hates his brother so much for an accident.

Next time, the truth about Eddard Stark’s execution : the Stark wrongly hate Joffrey, actually the sword was too heavy for Illyn Payne who dropped it on Ned’s head.

[brydeswhale]

Ned kills Sansa’s wolf, ignores her, and acts like taking her to ONE day of one event in a city full of arts and activities and social gatherings is this huge burden to him, all the while showering Arya with attention, affection, support, and basically overindulging her, and people are shocked that Sansa is angry with Arya?

Even laying aside Arya’s level of culpability in Lady’s death, Ned is damaging these girls’ relationship with his favouritism.

And on top of that, wherever Arya’s aggression to Sansa comes from, she honestly doesn’t treat her very well. Sansa, in Arya’s first chapter, kindly attempts to include Arya once Arya makes it clear she wants to be included. It’s Arya’s behaviour that causes the problems there. And from there on, Arya is almost always the aggressor, until Ned decides to send them home.

So, yeah, Sansa stoops to her level. After at least MONTHS of parental favouritism and Arya being horrible. Frankly, she kind of earned it.

[agentrouka-blog]

Sorry to bring up Jon & Cat discourse but I saw a post in the Jon tag where they talked about how yes both Catelyn & Jon were victims (Catelyn patriarchy Jon bastard stigma) but Catelyn and Jon are not equally victims because there is a power imbalance between them, with Catelyn being the Lady of Winterfell.

The thing is Idt I've ever seen people deny this existing? Furthermore does she actually use this power imbalance against him?

They are actually both victims of patriarchy (bastardy is a concept that can only exist in patriarchy because it protects male property and sexual freedom first and foremost) and people don't like pointing that out too much because it prevents them from ignoring how much more responsible Ned is for Jon's wellbeing and subsequent unhappiness than Catelyn could ever be.

So Catelyn making Jon feel unwelcome by ignoring him is emphasized as abusive because her relative power as Lady of Winterfell is greater than Jon's as a child - and then they end the discussion there.

They leave it there, instead of taking it to where GRRM likely intended it, which is to ask why they expect Catelyn to compensate for the very real conflict of interest Ned's choices introduce into their household and into Catelyn's life (and Jon's life, see also the absolute shame he feels about wanting normal things). Catelyn is supposed to swallow her personal interest and her feelings because otherwise Child Abuse.

Jon is so humble and selfless, after all, he never gives Ned any trouble, he would never ever put his own interest and feelings above what is most convenient for Ned.

Because this is about making sure everything is convenient for Ned the patriarch. Actually working to create a mediated peace between two parties with legitimate conflict? Nah, he gives Arya sword lessons, so he can't possibly be the main beneficiary of this mess and abusing his power exponentially more than Cat because he never says a mean word to Jon ever. Abuse is hurt feelings from cold glances, after all.

See also patriarchy, and how best to defend it by pitting victims against each other! ❤️

(Commence angry Jon stans in 3... 2... -- Actually, no, please don't. This is not an invitation. I have had this discussion too many times. If you don't agree just step away and focus on what sparks joy.)

[alaynasansa]

My opinion on some asoiaf ships

Jal ->

* They aren't gonna be endgame. Val is kinda a blank slate, even Harry Hardyng has more personality and he only appeared in a sample chapter + Jon dreams of an idyllic life with Val, but based on his own tastes, in his own image of what Val should be, and this imagined future is shattered the moment Val declares that Shireen, an innocent child, should be killed. Jon is rightfully disgusted "this was a Val that Jon had never seen before", this Val is the real one, not the one he had imagined, and Jon isn't attracted to the real Val

Stardyng ->

* I kinda ship them. Listen Harry isn't perfect, far from it, but he isn't significantly older than Sansa, he didn't abuse her, he didn't sexualised her (guys she's 13), he geniunely admires her qualities (her intelligence and humor), he apologized for his classism (and he hates LF so it's no wonder he didn't want to marry LF's "bastard daughter")

Starkpoole ->

* They're perfect, okay ? They need to heal and get justice and then to be happy together in Winterfell thank you very much

Ned x Ashara ->

* I'm of the opinion Ashara was Ned's teenage love. Cat was the love of his life, but in my headcanon he geniunely cared about Ashara and he repressed his memories of her. Just like his eldest daughter, Ned repressed a lot of his trauma because it hurts him too much. He only thinks of Lyanna when he's triggered by traumatic events like Sansa pleading for Lady or when he's injured and anesthetized by the milk of the poppy and he barely thinks of his own father and brother so it wouldn't be surprising

Jaime x Addam ->

* Why not ? Childhood friends and sparring mates. He's the only speaker Jaime trusts with his secret

Arianne x Daemon ->

* I don't mind them they seem happy together (though it's complicated since Arianne is the crown princess of Dorne and Daemon's a bastard)

Sansa x Dickon ->

* We know next to nothing about Dickon but why not perhaps it could work in an au

Robb x Jeyne ->

* Perhaps Robb is Sleeping Beauty. He's the one with the evil step-mom who wants to kill him and his family. Old Fairy Walder Frey is offended by the Stark-Tully family and curses 16 YO Robb. Seventh Fairy Edmure tries to save the day but it doesn't work. Anyway. Robb was young, he made a ton of mistakes, especially towards his own family, but he didn't want any of this, he didn't want to be king, he wasn't ready, he wanted to save Jeyne's honor, he wanted to do the right thing (unlike the show version). I want Jeyne to make it at the end but I'm pessimistic. They deserved better. I kinda ship them

[rise-my-angel]

'BuT NeD ThInKs PoSiTiVeLy Of RhAeGaR' Ned thinks of Rhaegar ONCE that he was a man unlikely to visit brothels. From this we can conclude that he was not a sex pest like Robert. How on earth does this inform of Ned's personal feelings though? Ned is comparing Robert and Rhaegar and thinking in factual terms. Its similar to how he thinks of Aerys killing his father and brother but not once does he express hatred against Aerys. But we do know what he would think of Aerys, its common sense. Even if we go by 'Lyanna was willing' idea, Lyanna still died because Rhaegar impregnated her at 15 and then left her imprisoned without proper healthcare. She died because of Rhaegar's actions. People who use this argument are usually those who don't understand Ned's character very clearly, he is a man who while suffering from ptsd, suppresses painful emotions and feelings.

Ned Stark is SO MUCH more complicated then those people will ever give him credit for. They are desperate to paint him as so easily black and white when he is the most "living in the grey area" man to literally ever exist. They also refuse to give any context to that scene.

Because it isn't really Rhaegar Neds thinking about in that scene, it's Jon. Ned is in a brothel looking for one of Roberts many bastards, and connecting Robert to Lyanna to Rhaegar he wonders if Rhaegar was like Robert in that sense. The question Ned is really asking, is if there is a possibility that there are more people out there like Jon. He's asking himself if he's sure that Jon is alone and comes to the conclusion that yes, Rhaegar probably didn't sleep around like Robert and this comes to the conclusion that the only secret child of Rhaegars is in fact, still Jon.

But it's like you said, Ned strongly buries his true emotions deep down. He is a very traumatized man who has never truly gotten past the point in his life where his sister died in front of him. Ned is still trapped in that room and the haunting smell of blood and roses. Ned was described as catatonic for a while after Lyanna died and he never truly came out of that emotionally. He keeps everything inside very deeply and is utterly haunted with that upcoming trauma once the main story starts. His every action in Kings Landing is rooted in that trauma of what happened to Lyanna and the deep fear of what will happen to Jon. Everything he does in Kings Landing is about that, Neds priority in the story, is Jon. That dicates everything he does in the main plot because he is deeply traumatized and terrifed of what will happen to his son.

There's even a strong argument to be made that had Robert never come to Winterfell and involved the Starks directly within the dealings of the Crown, that Ned wouldn't ever have let Jon join the Nights Watch. That agree or disagree with letting him, that a big reason he allows it, is out of the fear of Jon being anywhere near the people Ned's spent Jons entire life protecting him from. That Ned would rather Jon be in the Nights Watch, then hunted down and murdered by Robert.

Ned the entire story and half of his life has been burying very deeply rooted trauma of what happened to Lyanna, and has been motivated that same time to put Jon as one of his biggest priorities right up until his death. But because he keeps this all buried deep inside, its easy for people, mostly Rhaegar defenders, to paint him as black and white, a bad father, a mindless soldier with no autonomy outside of Robert, a selfish man.

Ned Stark is one of the best written characters in recent literature, theres a reason he's still remembered and talked about to this day, and it is certainly not because he is as black and white as Rhaegar stans desperately try to slander him as.

[silverflameataraxia]

Jon could have told him. He knew, they all knew, yet no man of them would say the words. The Others are only a story, a tale to make children shiver. If they ever lived at all, they are gone eight thousand years. Even the thought made him feel foolish; he was a man grown now, a black brother of the Night's Watch, not the boy who'd once sat at Old Nan's feet with Bran and Robb and Arya.

- Jon VII, AGoT

Rickon probably wasn't old enough to hear Old Nan's stories, but where was Sansa? Did she find Old Nan's stories to be too foolish and beneath her to join in with the rest of her siblings? Did the stories not fit with the songs in her head that she'd based reality on?

"They were as close as brothers, once." Jon wondered if Joffrey would keep his father as the King's Hand. It did not seem likely. That might mean Lord Eddard would return to Winterfell, and his sisters as well. He might even be allowed to visit them, with Lord Mormont's permission.  It would be good to see Arya's grin again and to talk with his father. I will ask him about my mother, he resolved. I am a man now, it is past time he told me. Even if she was a whore, I don't care. I want to know.

- Jon VII, AGoT

It's interesting that Jon thinks about sisters in the plural, but only names Arya by name 🤣 I don't doubt that Jon cares a little bit about Sansa - because he's a decent person - but Arya's the one he would go to war for, kill for, and die for.

[allovesthings]

Littlefinger is really out there talking about Peace in the kingdom to Ned when he is the one who started the entire war in the first place.

It's also incredibly similar to Mormont describing how awful life is for the smallfolks while being the one selling poachers (aka:smallfolks) to Tyrosh.

I really need those men to stop.