#anti-ronance

[cescalr]

thalia x reyna from percy jackson for the ask (i'm pretty sure you've read heroes of olympus but if i'm wrong, ronance from stranger things)

I will answer both and this is gonna be soooo controversial (for the second) lol ack

Also; I'm on mobile, and this is going to get long, and i cant link any suppirting posts that explain my perspectives better than i can, lol. If you want, i'll dm the metas. I hope I get the keep reading thing right, but if it doesn't work... sorry. Summary:

Tl:dr; I could see reynalia working, maybe, but I'd need to read some to get a proper feel for it. It might be one of those cases where I prefer it in polyamorous form, aka reynaliabeth. Reynabethalia. Or maybe when put alongside pipabeth (idk piper/annabeth...) Idk. As for ronance, just not my cup of tea for a variety of reasons. I prefer robin crossover ships, like my tiny little dingy of tarabin. (Tara Maclay/Robin Bucley).

Reyna/Thaila (reynalia??) Is not something I've ever considered, to be honest. I'm not sure how compatible they'd be, but I do ship annabeth/thalia (I should really look up pjo ship names, huh) and I've even given thalia/percy a go, because I'm firmly in the camp that you should give most ships a chance before you write them off completely (as it stands, the most controversial pjo ship I've ever read would either be luke/percy or nico/Sadie - that was written before he was confirmed as gay, though, so it's a grey area, like pre-confirmation romantic stobin fics, or willow/oz content, though differently so for the latter*).

Given all the above, I can't say I don't ship it, but I can say I'm not sure. I think given I like thaliabeth (??) and reynabeth, it wouldn't be a stretch to ship reynalia, though!

(*willow is controversial because of a clash between people who interpret her being called a lwsbian as biphobic vs people thinking calling her bisexual as lesbiphobic, its a whole deal I don't want to her into rn but... eeh, I guess I should state that I'm in the camp that her being bisexual is the most logical reading of canon, her status as a lesbian is a self-identifier because she swore off dating men, not because she isn't attracted to them - she cheated on Oz with Xander for purely lust related reasons, her whole thing with the will be done spell, and her actions with Amy when she goes off the rails (magically forcing men to dance half naked In cages in the bronze, along with other questionable acts) is... uh, not particularly lesbian behaviour, generally speaking; imo, Willow uses being gay as a mask for her insecurities same as she does her witchy power and her choice of fashion - to distance herself from the 'pathetic' girl she used to be. Its a whole psychological thing tied up in era-typical bigotry, unfortunately. It was the 90s. She wasn't going to be addressed as bi, even though she so clearly was. There's a reason I really like 2000s doctor who - it was the first positive representation of a bisexual I'd seen on screen, and being bisexual is clearly going to affect my opinion, here. Like. Duh. Same with lesbians who interpret her as lesbian. I don't think we should be arguing- at the end of the day, we all technically want the same thing; personal representation of our own lived experiences, and that's not a bad thing. Theres a good video on youtube about the controversy, which. Theres always a good video on youtube, lol.)

Um. Oops, rambling. Anyway.

So, ronance. Oh boy.

I see Nancy as straight. I'm also not fond of how she treats Robin in the little time we see them together. Im also not a fan of robin dating the ex that broke her bestie's heart. So, ergo, I don't ship them. I'm genuinely, as much as it probably doesn't seem that way, more of a fan of friendship, at the end of the day. I would see it as a betrayal (same way I see scolia and stydia as a betrayal). I tend to use romantic/sexual relations as a way to explore character because that's easiest to get my points across, but I prefer friendship. Romance is, at the end of the day, conditional. Friends can be friends still after three years of no contact, but that's a signal for the end of a romance. So what I'm getting at here - you can be tentative friends with someone the way robin and Nancy act (as is their canon dynamic), but I wouldn't be conformable with them dating. Nancy barely tolerates Robin. She displays annoyance at pretty much everything she does, from rambling to venting to expositing her mental state, Nancy's countenance just screamed 'I'm waiting for this to stop'. I don't like that in friendship, and I like it much less in romance. Even with my most controversial ships, there's still a kind of passion. Hate is not the opposite of love - it's apathy. Nancy seems often apathetic to Robin's mental state, her worries and concerns. She dismisses a lot of what robin says and does, at least from my perspective watching them. And it must be said - and I'll freely admit - I'm not Nancy's biggest fan, but I love Robin, she's my girl. That's going to cause some problems. Even with ships that are objectively questionable, I have to like both characters for me to get behind it, or I have to like both characters when in the context of the ship. This makes little sense, so I'll extrapolate.

In the Vampire Diaries, I don't really like Stefan Salvatore, and unpopular opinion time, I hate Klaus. I really, really hate him. At this point, it's straight-up loathing. But I greatly enjoyed their dynamics, from 20s to modern day, and that they shared an ex was funny to me (same way it is with Zutara, and making jetko kinda-canon for that reason alone half the time, akfjqlfjwk) as well as being an interesting thing to happen. (I mean, what are the odds, really?). So there's that. I also liked stefan and Katherine's whole weird deal, which played an aspect. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that there's a certain respect even in my most dubious ships (jetko, steo, fuffy, spuffy, etc) that I feel is completely lacking in ronance. There's a video by Jill Bearup about enemies to lovers ships that might give a good reason to one aspect of why I like it - they take each other seriously. There's an understanding of competence, an acknowledgement of thought processes, a certain level of understanding. Nancy has none of that for Robin.

When I compare the two ships of the 'fruity four', as people have taken to calling them, steddie and ronance strike me as two very different kinds of ships. And I only half get steddie (very not fond of popular portrayal) - there's no real chance for me to get ronance. It is what it is, I suppose. People like what they're going to like. If you want me to extrapolate on any of this, I'd be happy to! My thoughts are oft all over the place and need a bit of direction to make sense, though, fair warning. I think about a lot of stuff and only rarely coherently akdhlwkfkq but I think there is a throughline. At the end of the day, mutual respect is mandatory for me, in romantix relationships especially, but not only for that. If I can't really get behind ronance platonically, there's no hope for romantically. And for the record, as stated above, I did give it a shot. Read the most popular fics and then a couple of the most recent, as I always do. They didn't agree with me, and they left me feeling distinctly... well, not so distinctly because I can't find the right word, but I couldn't help feeling the way I do about the popular portrayal of Hermione is happening to nancy? She's perfect and flawless and a girl boss and has never made a mistake ever and I just.... eeh. Also the treatment of Robin is... not always great. But that's a whole 'nother topic I've already rambled long enough, I don't need to add that.

Basically, tl:dr; ronance is kind of disquieting, probably because I'm not fond of their characterisations within ronance fics, and I'm often affected by the fanon regarding a ship. I never liked Sterek, for example, but I could've tolerated it if a) it wasn't so prevalent in fandom that it appears often untagged like an accepted part of canon when it is not and b) if it didn't so wildly misinterpret the characters, plus didn't include a character that doesn't sit right with me (Derek - Nancy) and a character I love but portrayed in a way that doesn't even remotely align with my interpretation of them 95% of the time (Stiles - Robin).

Er. Yeah. Oof.

Tl:dr; I could see reynalia working, maybe, but I'd need to read some to get a proper feel for it. It might be one of those cases where I prefer it in polyamorous form, aka reynaliabeth. Reynabethalia. Or maybe when put alongside pipabeth (idk piper/annabeth...) Idk. As for ronance, just not my cup of tea for a variety of reasons. I prefer robin crossover ships, like my tiny little dingy of tarabin. (Tara Maclay/Robin Bucley).

:).

(As you can probably tell, I have... lots of very complicated feelings about shipping Robin (and like, shipping in general, being honest) with canon ST characters. I'm much less strict abt Riordanverse characters as a whole, for reasons I'd be perfectly willing to extrapolate on/discuss if you'd like to do so!).

♡♡

[audhd-nightwing]

can you tell i hate that ship /s

[claraoswalds]

STOBIN APPRECIATION WEEK ↳ Day 5: Stobin + Someone Else

It's cool you two are, like, friends now. Maybe after we find Vecna, kill him, save the world and stuff, maybe we can all go out or something. You know? Me, you, Robin.

[staliaqueen]

insp.

[stevesbipanic]

Steve and Nancy had caved.

It had a been a few months since Nancy and Jonathan had broken up, agreeing they were better as friends and wanted different things in life. Since then the kids had pestered them to no end to try dating again, claiming they were more mature now and "perfect for each other".

So here they were at the diner, they'd gone to the movies and very respectfully just held hands through the movie. It was fun, they liked hanging out together, they had become good friends over the years which is why the kids wanted them to be together again, Dustin was particularly enthusiastic, Mike of course was not.

Steve drove her home, let her pick the tunes, chatted about the movie. It was a normal date, and a normal date only ended one way. Steve pulled up to the Wheeler house and Nancy turned towards him.

"So."

"So?"

They laughed, this was it they guessed, they leaned in towards each other.

"Wait!" They said together, blinking wide eyes open.

"I'm sorry, Nancy, I can't do this."

"No, no I can't do this either."

"Robin?"

"Eddie?"

"Yeah," they said smiling.

Steve smiled to himself as he drove to the trailer park after helping Nancy up to Robin's window.

Mike regretted complaining about Steve dating Nancy when he showed up to the next Hellfire meeting with Steve in Eddie's lap.

[goonflower]

if s4 st*ncy was tortorous to watch, imagine how bad it must have been for natalia dyer #1 ronance shipper and girlfriend of charlie heaton/actor of jonathan byers to act out. esp knowing that it would lead to her having to sit through more love triangle questions. like free my girl from the st*ncy shackles, she did nothing wrong! like this is a dire (dyer) situation!!! free her now!!!!!!!

[findafight]

Vickie stranger things you are sooooo woman hated by the fandom who has done nothing wrong but be the canon mutual love interest for one side of a popular gay ship coded you deserve so much better than this

[ineffablelvrs]

i made it some time ago but it still makes me giggle

[ronancebyler]

gonna make this clear for anyone on my blog.

i do not support Zionism. i do not support noah schnapp. if you do, get the fuck out of my blog.

that is all.

[smithsibsceo]

platonic stancy who get wine drunk together and talk shit about people. platonic stancy stifling wheezing giggles as they remember their past relationship. platonic stancy belting their hearts out on robins tiny karaoke machine. platonic stancy running the kitchen like its the goddamn navy. platonic stancy

[ssaronance]

hate when people go “steve’s changed” when talking about steve and nancy getting back together

nancy is not a prize for steve’s “development”

[byler-alarmist]

Disclaimer: I am not anti-Vickie by any means. I think Vickie seems very sweet (although there may be something going on with her we don't know) and I will fully support her and Robin if the Duffers can prove to me in S5 why they work together.

That said, I am going to examine the one, glaring issue I have with Rovickie. If you're not put off by that, read on!

So, most of the criticism leveled against Vickie is that we don't know anything about her. That's true; we don't.

However, my main criticism is:

Does Robin know anything about her??

All we hear from Robin in S4 is that Vickie is the girl of her dreams, but we never hear why. In all her gushing/agonizing to Steve, Robin never tells us what about Vickie makes her so special.

Is she smart? Funny? Ambitious? Kind? Is she a pro at playing poker?

Even Tammy Thompson, whose role in S3 was purely offscreen, got a shout out of traits that Robin valued ("she has dreams!").

We can't say the same for Vickie. All we know is:

-she laughed at one of Robin's (Steve's) jokes

-she likes Fast Times

-she talks a lot when nervous

-she possibly likes boobies

And those last two were only figured out by Robin in the final episode of S4.

If Robin's feelings for Vickie are more than mere infatuation based on looks, wouldn't Robin have told us more than the most surface-level things about her?

And if your immediate response to this "well, she just hasn't spent enough one-on-one time with her to know!" .......that's exactly my point.

The writers have shown time and time again that the shallow relationships where tbe couple got into it without really talking or getting to know each other do not last .

I'm reminded of Lucas telling Mike "you're just blind because a girl isn't grossed out by you." 👀

All this in the same season where Robin is spending one-on-one time with Nancy, getting to know her and respect the things that make her "her". Rather than just looks, Robin gets to see Nancy's drive, intellect, leadership and bravery.

She calls her a "genius", says she is "full of surprises", and learns even more about her when Nancy opens up about her relationship inecurities. Robin sees her complexity.

I don't know about you, but to me, this is the core of why Rovickie is not as compelling as a ship. If they are meant to be endgame, why was Robin paired with Nancy all season?

Surely there could've been some plot device to bring Vickie into the fold, just like Max was brought into the Party back in S2.

Vickie could've been trapped with Robin and the older teens after some supernatural things happened at rhe pep rally or other school function and they got separated from the rest, or she could've been related to the Creels and the gang needed to ask her for help. It's a TV show; they can do whatever they want.

Either way, they decided not to involve her in the main plot of the show at all, preventing both Robin and the viewers from getting to know her fully. I believe this was intentional and will have consequences for their relationship in S5.

One final thought- in early S4, Robin tells Steve that she has found the girl of her dreams but can't get the courage to ask her out, whereas Steve goes on a ton of dates but has no idea what he wants.

I think it would be VERY interesting if their roles were actually swapped, i.e. by the end of S4, Robin is the one who doesn't really know what she wants, and Steve is the one who realizes he has found the (person) of his dreams.

[snixx]

average experience scrolling through the #ronance tag on tumblr dot com

[goonflower]

i hate hate hate how the view of general audiences is that nancy wheeler doesn't care about barb and that her entire character arc boils down to a love triangle and guns. like its just such a fundmental misunderstanding of her character and YET its the most common view of nancy. like pretty much all the questions natalia dyer gets are 'steve or jonathan' bc everyone is CONVINCED that the love triangle is the most important part of nancy's character like are you kidding me? tell me you watched the show with your eyes closed without telling me you watched the show with your eyes closed. it just PISSES ME OFFF

[findafight]

Genuinely think some folks need to remove how we, the audience, see characters and relationships from an outside perspective from how those characters actually interact. Like y'all ask for nuance and I'm telling you that just because Nancy has gone through trauma and absolutely deserves to be as messy and complicated and hurt as she wants, doesn't mean Robin wouldn't think twice about dating her?

It's not about whose fault it is or centering a male character, it's about how Robin, the character, would interpret and internalize the facts she knows. She has no idea what exactly Nancy has been through, like we have. She encouraged Steve and Nancy in S4 to get back together, she comforted him when Nancy went straight back to Jonathan. Robin's place as Steve's best friend, someone she trusts implicitly, the person she wants to combine with, puts Steve as an important aspect of her life!

It's not that she hates Nancy! It's that even though they broke up a year and a half ago, there's some unresolved or redeveloping feelings there for Steve. It's not that I think Steve could/would/should be hurt or angry about his best friend dating his ex. It's that, in my opinion, Robin, from what we see of her, doesn't seem inclined to date a friend's ex. It's about Robin, and her personality, and that means her friendship and love of Steve.

[vanesawye]

robin shows up to the hangout steve suggested with nancy & jonathan in this