#asoiaf revolution

[horizon-verizon]

"It is through struggles of power that shifts in political and ideological structures happen" so why didn't the dance end with a Targaryen Queen? Like Baela or Rhaena? Gworgw could have easily ended the dance with a 👑 running westeros. Made Rhaenyra into a martyr.

Anon is quoting from THIS post.

There's nothing particularly wrong with wanting very simple stories where the people who are good, deserved more, or act impressively will win. 

But, anon, when did I say that these struggles of power will always end up with the right person/people winning and winning absolutely? 

A)

Rhaenyra is a tragic figure for the sake of Daenerys being the one to “fix” Westeros, as Rhaegar tried himself. Rhaenyra’s loss and death sets us up for the ultra violent and patriarchal world that Arya, Sansa, Dany, Jon, Tyrion, etc. must confront and understand. We trace the Targ’s loss of dragons and desperation to gain them back to Rhaenyra’s loss.

Have you read the brideoffire post that I put into the post you are referring to? You should go back and take a reread and sit and think about the implications of Rhaenyra and the Targ dynasty. 

*EDIT* Rhaenyra's story is a part of a larger story. The Dance is also, then, part of a larger story, and it comes from a specific history.

But I also wouldn't say that she was a "martyr" since her intentions were never to make life better for all women in Westeros, or all classes, etc. Rhaenyra's story matters because it shows, in real-time, what a patriarchal society and those with misogyny/internalized misogyny do to maintain and gain power, how we define "stealing" power, how we and those in Westeros think who deserves power and why, reveal hypocrisies, show us what biased writing looks like, invites us to look past the surface to weight context vs text vs subtext, etc.

I do not prefer Rhaenyra over Alicent because I never thought she herself was a feminist or even a proto-feminist. I prefer her because her becoming a Queen Regnant rather be a Dowager/Regent or a mere princess shows us what could have been (if not for the misogyny) AND even without her efforts, it would set a precedent that allows other women to easier fight for their own inheritances and rise to power. Mentioning Rosby and Stokeworth and what Rhaenyra did with them, this both shows what I already said about her--her herself--not being a feminist or having those interests....even though Rhaenyra did this, this is one incident and she had many more years to rule if she had won, during which other women woukd still be able to refer to her or use her rule to make their own rule have more legitimacy. Say you were a girl about to gain an inheritance or became lady. Do you think you'd let the Rosby/Stokeworth events stop you from pressing for power, and with Rhaenyra continuing to rule in front of everyone's salads, do you think you'd have an easier time or a harder time arguing or fighting for yourself against those against you? *END OF EDIT*

B)

Rhaegar Targaryen wanted to depose his father and begin fixing the wrongs done in Westerosi history while fulfilling the prophecy, but he was flouted by the evil, self-centered, rapist, abusive, etc. Robert Baratheon. In real life, slavery existed in the U.S. since its inception (around 400 years) and then we had Jim’s Crow laws, segregation, and lynchings for another century. And in the meantime, many enslaved tried to fight back against theie enslavers and other enforcers of slavery through violent and nonviolent means and they did always suceed.

Therefore, you’re going to have figures who should have won but didn’t because of circumstance, “bad luck”, paranoia (from terrible, traumatic events in their life while they were trying to gain back rights, protect loved ones, get back power, etc.), lack of resources, poor decisions, etc. What’s assured in the series is that there will be a supernatural confrontation that needs Targ dragons and good leadership that you see in Arya, Daenerys, Jon Snow, Bran, Tyrion.

GRRM is interested in wars and revolutions in the realistic/historical sense while showing how humans think and behave during those major shifts of societal change.

ASoIaF/GRRM is trying to impart a more (not totally verastic since we have no dragons or magic or people who can wield either) realistic approach to revolution and psychology. Revolutions both need to happen to overthrow terrible systems but they also sometimes kill good or necessary people or they do not succeed. 

[emprcaesar]

jon hearing alliser thorne, othell, and bowen talking shit and conspiring against him while he’s taking a bath so he decides to stand up while he’s literally butt ass naked to say one of the most cunty lines he has. he couldn’t fucking help himself. he knew he had the opportunity to be a petty little bitch and took it. i don’t give a shit if rhaegar is his father that’s ned’s son.

what the fuck did ned say to cersei “your brother, or your lover?” YOOOOO CHILLLLL. one time cersei was proficiently gagged.

STARK MEN STAND ON MF BUISNESS!!!

[sunny12th]

even if dany's anti-slavery arc was fueled by rage and vengeance (it's not) what's the problem with that? she should be angry about being sold. she should want to burn the system that hurt her, that is hurting so many, and she has every right to be pissed off while she does it. who wouldn't be angry about being sold for an army by their abusive brother? who wouldn't be pissed off at the sight of murdered children and people in chains?

[selwynsel]

so edmure is definitely going to survive until the very end. the battle of ruby ford is why he'll be alive. it was a mistake, but not for everyone who stood in the way of the advancing lannister army. for them it was victory well-earned, another day lived in the depths of war. edmure voice they shall not cross, cat. lord tywin is marching to the southeast. a front perhaps, or a full retreat, it matters not. they shall not cross.

[racefortheironthrone]

Many of your economic development plans call for the LPs to climb the "value-added chain". In a late medieval context, what value-added product would give you the most bang for your buck when it comes to timber?

Timber is a bit trickier than the classic case of textiles (where there are more links in the value-added chain from raw wool to carded wool to spun thread to plain woven cloth to dyed cloth to higher-end fabrics).

The first place to start is to shift from timber (i.e, the harvesting of raw, unprocessed logs from trees) to lumber (treating and seasoning, and sawing the logs into standardized boards, planks, beams, posts, and the like that can be used by carpenters to make furniture, housing, etc.). This requires the construction of sawmills (usually water- or wind-powered), usually downstream from the timberland so that logs can be easily floated down to the sawmill rather than going to the effort and expense of carting them overland.

The next step is to encourage the development of associated industries like furniture-making, construction...and most prized of all, ship-building. These industries continue to climb the value-added chain, because there's more money to be made from selling artisan furniture than selling raw logs and more money to be made in real estate than selling planks retail, and thus they allow you to maximize your profits from your natural resources. More importantly, if you can get into ship-building, you not only make money from selling and repairing the ships, but it's a pretty easy step from there to branch out into commerce on your own account (since you are already producing the main capital investment that seaborn commerce requires).

This is why various forms of Navigation Acts were often a key strategy of mercantilist policy during the Commercial Revolution, because if you could make sure that foreign trade was carried out by your nation's ships crewed by your sailors and your pilots and financed by your merchants, that the profits from trade would be more likely to be re-invested at home rather than exported to someone else's country.

[visenyaism]

Wait so you really hate Daenerys for killing slavers ??? Bitch, I thought it was a joke. Wait till you learn what Algerian independantists did to French settlers.

I really do not know who the fuck you think you are talking to because i have never once said that. I think the show condemning Daenerys for killing slavers was one of the worst things they ever did, and i really don’t like the section of the fandom that believes this. It is quick easy and free to simply not defend slavery and it’s super gross when people do in any context. Killing slavers is pretty black-and-white morally justified. I do not really understand the Discourse around whether it’s okay for her to do that. The ambiguity comes from the fact that she does not always successfully move towards liberation, there’s collateral damage, and she sometimes speaks for others when she shouldn’t, but the question of whether ending slavery is a good idea should not at all be up for debate?

I am pretty sure this ask is misdirected or bait because I have talked at length about how my favorite thing about Dany is that she’s a liberator intent on dismantling oppressive systems (some of which her family before her helped build.) She wants to go home, but home never really existed for her, so she has to create a better world!!! She’s makes a lot of mistakes on account of being 15, but she’s trying. It’s an uphill battle because she is trying to uproot the deeply rooted economic and sociocultural system at the core of the enslaver societies in Essos, which would a difficult task even if she was not literally fifteen with terrible advisors and facing active resistance from the enslaver class at every juncture. But it is still worth attempting because ending slavery is a very righteous and morally correct goal.

[fromtheseventhhell]

I love how often it's mentioned that Dany has a large number of non-combatants in her care and even more, that she insists on taking care of them even when advised otherwise. That's been ongoing from the beginning of her leadership journey with the remains of Drogo's khalasar where a majority of them were too old, sickly, or young to be able to defend themselves. And yet, she still made a promise to take care of and protect them. Her priorities and motivations have been made abundantly clear from the very beginning.

[tru-neutral03]

To the people who defend the slave trade and demonize Daenerys for trying to end it, I have this to say. The slave trade has been around for over five thousand years since the days of the Old Empire of Ghis. They spread their influence over their colonized lands in Slaver's Bay and Sothoryos, enslaving everyone they find along the way. When the Valyrian Freehold conquered them, they convinced them to practice slavery, further spreading their trade. Tyroshi slavers even sail far north beyond the wall to enslave wildlings. We know for a fact that most of the free cities are bigger than any city in Westeros and some are inhabited by well over a million people. Volantis and Meereen are far larger than all of the cities in Westeros and most likely have slave populations that number in the hundreds of thousands. Across the known world, there are millions of slaves, for thousands of years they've captured, broken, and trained people to fit their need for slave servants, soldiers, and bed slaves, simply because they think they're entitled to it. How many hundred million, maybe over a billion, have had their lives taken from them in that time? While you defend the slavers and their practices, traditions, culture, economy, and freedoms. Who's defending the people whose lives they've destroyed? Daenerys is, she tried to make peace with them at great cost to herself, and now that she'll take a more decisive stance against slavery and the masters and answer them with fire and blood you all try to paint her out as a mad tyrant while she's seeking to overthrow the real tyrants who've spread their terror as far south as the Summer Isles, as far north as Hardhome, and as far east as Qarth. You want others to have her dragons (Euron, Faegon, Jon, etc) because you believe that they're entitled to them even though they'll use them for their own selfish needs (destroying Old Town, taking the Iron Throne, taking back Winterfell) while Daenerys is using them to smash a slave trade that has ruined the lives of millions every day for the past five thousand years! You all think she's a spoiled narcissistic tyrant even though she grew up poorer than any of the other POVs and knows what it's like to be bought, sold, and raped (It does not matter that she later came to care for Drogo). She's done nothing but try to help others with the power she gains for herself and while she dreams of going to Westeros she decides to stay exactly where she is in Meereen to ensure the freedom of the people she liberated. Would any other character we've seen thus far put aside their own selfish ambitions in this magnitude? Slavery is a practice that needs to be destroyed by any means necessary and when she returns with Drogon and the Dothraki and finally shows them the meaning of fire and blood I will be cheering her on while you all bitch and moan about the poor slave owners.

[daenystheedreamer]

What about Edmure "My people; they were afraid" Tully? /hj

DOWN WITH NOBLESSE OBLIGE!!!

[unamusedcyclone]

Full disclosure though, I'd read the shit out of a fic where the author explored the lives of a character's unseen victims and didn't try to whitewash it. It sounds fun.

To quote my friend: STAKES!! CAUSE AND EFFECT!!!

[an-organism]

trotskyist dany is real. to me

[carlsdraws]

asoiaf self insert fanfiction is so weird why do u people keep trying to introduce gunpowder and modern warfare to westeros

[dontbotherwiththepronunciation]

I love Dany. I love how reflective she is. I love how she constantly questions her ways and reasoning, sometimes even becoming so self-deprecating that I worry for her. I love how even in her worst calvary she is still thinking of her mistakes. I love how open to correction she is. I love how self-sacrificial and dutiful she becomes once the well-being of her subjects is threatened. I love her relationships with Missandei, Irri, Jhiqui and Doreah and how, even if there are inherent issues regarding class and servitude on their dynamics, they deeply care for each other and she does her best to consider them. I love her optimism. Her will to look for the best, even in people she mislikes. “Gentle hands, if he has a gentle heart I might come to love him.” and it’s about Hizdahr zo Loraq out of all people. I love the relationship she develops with her dragons and how painful it is for her to have to chain them, but she still does so, thinking it’s the best. I love how Drogon, the one who nursed her fear is the one who ultimately saves her. I love her flight. I love her contradictions in her “if I look back I am lost” motto. I love the comparisons between her and Lot’s wife, King Henry VII and Queen Zenobia. I love the changes she is making in political regimes. I love Dany.

[15-lizards]

This might have been asked before, but is it okay to draw clothing for characters following your ideas and posts? It's all so good !

Hey!! It is absolutely fine to draw it!! I don’t own any of the pictures, the only things I own are my ideas that I willingly shared, so I would be so happy if y’all were inspired by them and wanted to draw them 😚

[crazyprompts4asoiafdune]

ASOIAF AU

Russian Revolution AU--the Stark family is dispersed. Ned dies during World War I, Robb dies during the Civil War (Whites against Reds) and Catelyn dies of flu. Arya makes it to China and trains in Kung fu (not in Japan because Russo-Japanese enimity), Sansa makes it to the US with Littlefinger's help, Bran goes to India and Rickon lands up in Ireland (Osha is Irish). Jon, who got involved in student politics, joins the Bolsheviks (the Trotskyites). The Lannisters are British aristocrats who're interested in toppling the Bolshevik government to get Sansa's claim--Littlefinger is acting as their agent. Sansa has to outwit them and get her family together.

[strawberry-milkbunny]

I really don’t understand the people here who don’t like the smallfolk/are mad about the Storming of the Dragonpit. In Asoiaf dragons are not mystical creatures with dog like personalities, they’re flying nukes.

Like besties….its giving bootlicker. It’s giving defending nepo babies and feudalism. It’s giving so you WANT to be oppressed?

You are not from House Targaryen or even House Crane. You are a bread baker from the Stormlands. You are sheep farmer that Aegon is using to feed Sunfyre. You are at MOST a ship pedaler or doing Helaena’s laundry. If you’re from the Riverlands good luck because there’s a 90% chance a random lord is going to terrorize your house for fun. Daemon Targaryen would land Caraxes on your father and scoff if you told him that was your dad.

I’m asian so I realistically I’m probably a rice farmer in Yi Ti.

Sansa irl would be your really nice delusional friend who romanticizes about living in an apartment while her parents pay her rent and wonders why you have a job while in school.

It’s literally Jon’s first arc when he gets to the wall. Yeah he’s a bastard and got emotionally neglected but like…he grew up in a castle and was trained by Winterfell’s master at arms like sir your life really was NOT that hard. Same with Arya and her whole journey in the Riverlands and how being a servant is not rlly that different than being a slave. And Jaime during FoC aka the AFTERMATH and consequences of war and how it utterly fucks up the smallfolk. Love the main cast but I’m not delusional enough to not see: that if you’re not a nepo baby you are utterly FUCKED in Asoiaf.

Maoism would go crazy in Westeros. Karl Marx would be the equivalent to Jesus to Gendry. The French Revolution is a fairytale spread by Mysaria that starts the Storming of the Pit. Malcolm X would be a prophet in Essos and is Dany’s final boss fight against Valyria’s history of enslavement and colonization.

Anyways ✨Stan Smallfolk✨ and eat the rich