#bayonetta spoilers

[thelvadams]

THE WIZARD OF OZ (1939) | BAYONETTA ORIGINS (2023)

[kulvefaggoth]

Besties i'm gonna level with y'all. If they wanted Cereza to be in a relationship with a man that bad they should've gone for Rodin.

I'm absolutely not joking giving Cereza and Rodin a melodramatic romance with plot significance would've been beyond camp but also he's like legit the ONLY man in the multiverse that feels like he would be a good pair for her.

[princessinyellow]

Actual Bayonetta alternate timelines

- universe where Rosa’s sin was never discovered, Cereza was raised as a normal Umbra witch, and the war with the Lumen sages never occurred. Both clans in power to the modern day.

- universe where Cereza was raised by Balder as a Lumen sage (tomboy or transmasc Bayo?), Lumen sages won the first war. Lumen sages are still dominant, but the Umbra witches are also present in the modern day.

- universe where Jeanne never sealed Cereza away, and they’ve been working together through the ages to undermine Balder’s schemes.

- universe where Balder succeeded and Jubileus created a new world (this would require that there are alternate Paradisios and Infernos as well, which only makes sense to me tbh)

- universe where Jeanne beat Cereza in their original duel, took the Umbra throne and the Left Eye of Darkness, and Cereza sealed her in the lake during the Witch Hunts. Jeanne woke up in the modern day with her memories gone, and Cereza brainwashed by the angels etc etc.

- universe where Umbra witches fended off the Witch Hunts and took over the world.

- universe where Jeanne failed to save Bayonetta from Gomorrah (very angsty).

- universe where Bayonetta was defeated while trying to save Jeanne from Inferno (darkest timeline).

[nonnie-the-friend]

I played Bayonetta for the first time yesterday and holy shit, what an amazing game.

Bayonetta is one of the most incredible characters I’ve seen in a game in a long time. She is a character so comfortable in her sexuality and her femininity and none of it ever feels forced or exploitative. She’s a character who is powerful and attractive and she KNOWS it. Like she is simply a strong character who happens to also be 7’7 and stunningly attractive and it never feels objectifying because it’s just *Bayonetta*, it’s just her self expression, you never feel like she’s having anything less than a good time when she’s dancing and fighting.

The combat is fun and it’s accessible, being able to figure combos out just from button mashing is an awesome feeling. I can’t express how satisfying it is to activate Witch Time at just the right moment and then execute some combos, summoning a Wicked Weave or two to clear the battlefield before your enemies even know what hit them. It’s so fucking fun!!

Rodin is a darling, I love him. Little Cereza is just so fucking adorable, like I don’t even like kids and she just tugged at my heartstrings so much. Luka is the worst, however, and I really don’t like him. The big thing that stands out to me is that he’s the only character in the whole game to objectify Bayonetta, even groping her the first time she kicks him out of the way of an angel. He might be meant to come across as some kind of determined goofball but it doesn’t feel like he was written with a healthy attitude towards women. It just feels really gross and completely out of place in this game. Trying to prove her existence/the existence of the Umbran Witches to validate his father’s work? Fine, that’s a workable motive. Getting so distracted staring at her cleavage that he doesn’t notice the giant fucking missiles headed towards the helicopter he’s flying? No. Just no. I don’t enjoy him as a character and if he were a real human I’d probably avoid him as much as possible. I like his hair though.

I love Jeanne. I love the mystery of her. Just this glam lesbian who appears (usually) on a motorbike every few chapters to taunt Bayonetta, eventually revealed to be her childhood best friend who has been completely brainwashed by Bayo’s father to work against her? Hey it’s a simple plot but it works because it’s done well and because of the genuine chemistry between the characters. Even when Bayonetta doesn’t know who she is, the muscle memory is there and she fights and flows with Jeanne as if 500 years hadn’t passed. I dig them. And also yeah, they were intended to be canon iirc. There is official concept art of them together for the sequel.

Anyway this is a very long winded way of saying that Bayonetta is a fantastic game and you should absolutely play it.

[animefeminist]

Bayonetta 3 Validates Every Insecurity About My Life, Relationships, and Sexuality

Content Warning: Discussions of heteronormativity, violence against women, harassment campaigns, and anti-bodily autonomy sentiment

Spoilers for Bayonetta 3 

It is a special kind of devastation when a series has such a catastrophic ending that previous, beloved parts of the work become difficult to return to. Today’s go-to example for this kind of eleventh hour collapse is the television series Game of Thrones, which dropped in quality so steadily that its Kubrick stare of a viewing experience can only be encapsulated by a meme of a horse drawing.  Likewise in the world of anime, Wonder Egg Priority proved heart crushing when it turned out that, despite its promising start, the series wasn’t able handle topics like trauma and suicide with the level of nuance and care they merit.  

Much to my dismay, we can now add the Bayonetta games to this list. Developed by Platinum Games with series creator Kamiya Hideki acting as a supervising director, Bayonetta 3 fundamentally misunderstands the themes of the previous games and gives its beloved lead a soul-crushing send off.

Bayonetta 3 turns the titular kink-positive and queer icon into the victim of some of the most frustrating heteronormative tropes that women can suffer under. Bayonetta, who has been embraced as an inspirational figure for the kinky, the rebellious, the femme, and the queer, is reduced to a waspy woman who had a wild streak before settling down. What really rubs salt into this wound of an ending is that I can see my own life following a similar arc to Bayonetta’s, and I hate how appealing it is to me. Between my feelings about the ending of the third game, the drama surrounding its production, and the series’ long-standing controversies, I just felt drained as I watched Bayonetta 3’s credits roll. Which sucks, because the previous two games left me feeling nothing but energized and wanting to be a bolder, braver version of myself. 

Read it at Anime Feminist!

[lesbyeen]

Ok so (Bayonetta 3 Spoiler Warning)

So I originally had a super long thing written but I’m condensing it here. I want to state first that I have: 1. Always seen Bayonetta as bisexual and 2. I have played both games (multiple times) and have been in the fandom for awhile now, so I’m not speaking out of my ass. I also should state that I am not yet finished with the game but I am well aware of what happens in the end. So here we go:

1. The Luka thing: I don’t like that Bayo is with Luka. They have always felt like a platonic flirting kinda pairing and not a genuine partnered up pairing. I find the pairing hard to believe because their interactions are nowhere near as strong as they should be if they want me to believe that they make a good couple. Bayonetta does not need a man (or even a romantic partner, let’s be real) to be as amazing and strong and sexy as she is. I don’t think her being paired with Luka necessarily ruins her character, but I do think if they keep going with this they’re going to dilute the hell out of her. My primary problem doesn't lie with the fact that she’s with a man because I’m a Bayojeanne fan, it lies with the fact that it’s with Luka.

2. The Jeanne thing: Egyptian Bayo and Jeanne are definitely a thing, let’s be real. It’s important to note that this version of Bayonetta in the multiverse is young Cereza from the first game as opposed to the Bayonetta from the past 2 games. The subtext for Bayojeanne is very, very strong in the second game and definitely exists in the first. Kamiya knows it’s a popular as hell pairing. Now, I love this ship. I know a lot of people do. I think it’s possible we will see more of it in the future. 

3. The death thing: what the fuck

With those things being said I don’t think outright, main universe Bayojeanne was going to happen this game. I don’t think this is some homophobic plot from Platinum/Nintendo, I just don’t. But I don’t think it was in the cards this time. I’m not going to jump on the train and call this queerbaiting, either. I don’t think it’s fair to call it that yet, since the game is 1. Heavily implied to have DLC and 2. The series isn’t over yet. I also think the term queerbaiting gets thrown around a little too liberally nowadays, but if you feel that term works then alright. 

Just my two cents, not trying to start arguments or anything. May make a longer, more thought out post after I’m done with the game. 

[spicyhamsamson]

Finished Bayonetta 3 and I might as well give a review of it

I’m giving it a tag but if you’re seeing this anyway and still don’t want to be spoiled, this will contain spoilers for Bayonetta 3.

First off, how’s that gameplay? Is it fun?

…I mean, it’s a fucking Platinum game, of course the gameplay’s fun. The combat’s the same as ever: Really fucking good. The new weapons are super unique and all have a really good, distinct feel. I’m a huge fan of the new traversal abilities with each weapon, especially the yo-yo.(oh, what a surprise, the Spider-Man fan likes the weapon that lets you web-swing and wall crawl). I will say I miss being able to combine weapons, but if that trade off is required, I’d say it’s worth it. The new demon slave mechanic took a bit to get used to, but once I got the hang of it, I really enjoyed it.

Jeanne’s side missions are alright. Really not too much to say about them, they’re really just mini games.

Viola’s gameplay is pretty fun, and I liked the feel of both her sword and hand to hand combat. Wish the parrying worked more like Metal Gear Rising, it being on the same button as the rush down is…awkward, especially when I’m so used to the trigger dodge being my main “button that makes me not get hurt”, so the muscle memory makes it even more awkward.

And on the other hand, the story.

Okay, here’s the part that’s been… not as positively received across the board. This story is mixed, imo. There are moments in this story where I definitely thought “oh this is fucking awesome, I love this”. But there were also a lot of moments that left me confused or even outright disappointed.

The alternate Bayonettas fucking rocked. I loved each one of them doing stupid bullshit, and I loved how unique they all seemed, even though they’re literally all the same person.

I was mixed on Viola as a character, tbh. I liked her personality(characters who swear casually are cool), and her design rocks. But on the other hand, I saw her twist coming from a mile away, and I’m…not exactly sure what they were going for with her, tonally. In one scene, I’m supposed to take her completely seriously, but in another, she does a looney toons “looking down and realizing they’re about to fall” gag(not making that up, that genuinely happens). I’m not saying you can’t have a character be in both funny scenes and serious scenes, but I feel like this is literally going to the extremes with both, and it’s a bit much. Cheshire fucking rocks, though. Love that guy. What a freak.

Luka’s new werewolf thing was interesting, but fuck, it is not fleshed out enough. It just comes outta nowhere. There’s a bit of stuff involving alternate Lukas being involved, but we only see one alternate version of him across the whole story. If you wanna make Luka more important, fuckin’ commit to it, don’t half ass it like this.

And…I guess we should address the elephant in the room. A lot of people have talked about the ending, specifically with how Luka’s involved. So I might as well give my thoughts on it. To start off, I don’t think it’s necessarily a problem that Bayonetta ends up with a guy, or even that that guy is Luka. Like…sure, it’s disappointing for everyone who wanted Bayo and Jeanne to get together, but Bayonetta basically outright says she wants to fuck Luka during the first game, and it’s not like Luka’s flirting was always one-sided around her. She teases him back too, this isn’t completely out of left field. For me, at least, the bigger issue is that it’s weird to see Bayonetta get into a serious relationship with any one character. I think of Bayonetta as a character who flirts around a lot, but never really commits to one person, so to go from that to “Bayonetta is destined to be with Luka and they are literally compared to Adam and Eve” out of nowhere is jarring and unnatural imo.

The best character I could use as a comparison is probably Mary Jane Watson(woah, SpicyHamSamson talking about Spider-Man stuff? No wayyyy). MJ, when she first shows up, is a total party girl who flirts with pretty much everyone, but never commits to any specific person for long. Now you may be thinking “Well, hang on a sec, Spicy. Mary Jane ended up falling in love with Peter Parker. That’s committing to a specific person.” And you’re right! But that’s because there’s a specific event that causes Mary Jane to change as a person. And that’s the death of Gwen Stacy, someone both she and Peter cared about very much. Gwen’s death forces MJ to mature, and rather than run away from issues, she makes the decision to stay by Peter’s side and comfort him, as a friend. The tragedy of losing someone they care about brings them closer, and ultimately that leads to them falling in love. And it’s extremely powerful.

Bayonetta doesn’t do that, she just goes from flirting around to “destined to be with Luka forever”. And that just doesn’t work, because it comes out of nowhere. There’s no build up to it, it just happens. And that’s not good storytelling. Hell, Bayonetta and Luka barely interact during this game until the last few levels. If you’re gonna push a romance with some characters, at least show that development. Still, could’ve been worse.

And on a larger scale, the ending of this game just…clashes with the rest of the series tonally. Like, I get it, it’s meant to be bittersweet. But that just doesn’t feel right here. If this has to be Cereza’s swan song, sure. It should be a little bittersweet. But this is Bayonetta we’re talking about. This woman should be going out with a BANG. An encore of her most spectacular display of stupid badass bullshit that’ll blow you out of your seats and into a wall. One of the first things we as an audience saw this character do was suplex 15 angels at the same time. In the second game, her first action scene had her ripping her dress when she KICKS A JET INTO THE SKY. Bayo’s last stand here was really disappointing, especially because they had some really cool shit with the Bayonettas from the other two games showing up and then fucking FUSING with main Bayonetta? Like, that shit was BADASS.

And then they barely do anything with it.

Come ON, you guys, I know you can do better than that! Have all three Bayonettas summon their own Madama Butterfly’s and have them play fuckin’ basketball with the final boss! Let me see Madama Butterfly DUNK a motherfucker.

This is Bayonetta’s farewell tour, and frankly, her final performance just doesn’t seem to hit the way it should. Which is disappointing, because they’re not really gonna get a chance to redo that.

With all that said, I’d say the story is still enjoyable. It’s not great, but with a few exceptions, you won’t be miserable sitting through it.

That being said, if you’re getting this game, it’s probably for the gameplay, and if you’re interested in that, I’d definitely recommend it.

[bottomheavydiscogay]

wow bayonetta 3 was so good. kind of short though, only had 12 chapters? seems almost like they forgot to put in the ending, but that's okay, i think a bit of mystery is nice. really really great game, even with just the 12 chapters. truly incredible stuff.

[thecanadianweeb]

Bayonetta 3 characters and the type of soap they use.

[clodswithachanceofmeatballs]

I'm also feeling polarized about that entire story and ending. However, PLEASE remember that this ISN'T our Bayo from B1/B2, it's a grown-up Little Cereza from B1 in an alternate timeline acting as our protag for B3.

I personally believe our Bayo is Bi/Pan, there's plenty of context in previous games. I 110% believe our Bayo is with Jeanne. We don't know enough of Cereza to definitively say whom she likes. Is the romance in B3 rushed and out of nowhere? Yes, absolutely. Do I think it's any form of LGBTQ-erasure of our titular witch? Well, not conclusively? It's still kinda weird.

And for the future of the series, I'm not sure what's gonna happen? I think it is clear that they were trying to do a meta "passing of the torch" story from Bayo/Cereza to Viola, akin to Devil May Cry 5 with Dante passing the franchise to Nero. Maybe, for whatever reason, Viola is the new series protag, or maybe they'll make other games about different witches. Be it our Bayo or another multiverse/timeline variant.

All I know is my head hurty

[roxy-saurus-rex]

....I don't think it's queerbaiting if it was never confirmed to begin with

Yea I'm upset about it but, I don't think Kaymiya & Platinum were ever gonna give us any queer rep

Tbh my problem is less 'no bayojeanne' and more of the fact that it's Luka of all people. Idk it just feels off to me.

Also the biphobia from some of yall is ridiculous

[thelvadams]

why don't you look at cereza playing on a slide and maybe you'll calm down

[freakova]

I love Jeanne so much

[princessinyellow]

Is it just me or does everything Bayonetta 3 added to the setting either mean nothing, or actually take away from the thematic depth? Like, what do Singularity and the Homunculi represent? A thing that wants to kill Bayonetta a lot. What do fairies represent? They represent that Luka and his kid have superpowers that make them almost as powerful as Bayonetta without needing training, knowledge, or any kind of impetus.

What does Arch Eve and Arch Adam mean? It means that Singularity wants to kill Bayonetta a lot, and also that Luka is elevated to the same narrative importance as her (unironic male pandering). It also means that BayoLuka is canon in the entire Multiverse no matter what. It only gets worse the more I think about it.

[saschas-here]

i didn't say this when it came up (spoilers for bayonetta 3 by the way) I LOVE THE SUMMONS THE FUCKIN THE LIKE THE KAIJU BATTLES????? SIN GOMORRAH? QUEEN BUTTERFLY? PHANTOM????? BAAL ZEBUL?????? HOLY SHIT THEY REALLY MADE SOME COOL SHIT THIS TIME AROUND

[inspiringraisin]

The Missed Potential of Luka (and why he's the best character in Bayonetta 3)

So I finished playing Bayonetta 3 last night as of writing this post, right? I’m not going to go into specifics about the plot, but I was spoiled early on about Viola. It didn’t ruin the story for me–I actually enjoyed it a lot more knowing who she was. I didn’t really care about Dr. Sigird or Singularity. While they’re not dealbreakers (RIP Jeanne), I was more here for the characters and their emotional journeys. 

This isn’t about Viola. 

This is about Luka.  

Luka is, unironically, my favourite Bayonetta character. I fell in love with him the first time in Bayonetta 1, liked him in Bayonetta 2, and then fell in love again during Bayonetta 3. I was shocked at how much development he got, because he actually felt like a somewhat active participant in that story, rather than a tacked on nobody in the second who is just there because he’s supposed to. 

Luka as a fae king, Lukaron? Love it. Evil Adam? Sure, why not? Big puppy? Instantly love it. Someone please give him some Excedrin wrapped in cheese, please. 

Anyway, to me, it felt like he didn’t do much in Bayonetta 2. Besides giving some lore dumps, the pages scattered about, and dragging Loki up to the mountain, he wasn’t that involved in the overarching story. I can’t say the same for Bayonetta 1, and especially Bayonetta 3. 

In Bayonetta 1, he was trying to find the murderer of his father, and that was resolved in that game. It’s a bit of a shame it never came up again, but it doesn’t really need to. He was someone that knew a few answers to Bayonetta’s questions, but not all of them. I liked them working together. Didn’t love him staring at her boobs near the end, but it never really came up again, so I’m chalking it up as a dubious writing choice before Bayonetta really took off. 

Bayonetta 3, though? He got so much more interesting development and involvement with the plot? I was so on board with his stained-glass-Catholic-beastmode-werewolf worm, Stryder. When we found out about that in the Ancient Egypt level, I was so on board, and it tied into Viola’s pixie powers. Ya’ll, I was screaming, crying, throwing up when he said he’d always love Viola and Bayonetta. It made me hella emotional. 

An aside, but I wished Bayonetta had some Lumen Sage powers from Baldur, so this was the closest thing to that for me. To me it makes sense Viola would have bits of both powers, as she seems she doesn’t have complete Umbra Witch powers, as she can’t summon/doesn’t want to/doesn’t need to summon Cheshire with her hair. 

Relating to Luka’s character development is the discourse surrounding the ending. Comphet was thrown around a lot. Compulsory Heterosexuality, also known as ‘comphet’, is the assumption that everyone is born straight, or should be straight. I can understand being disappointed by the ending, but I didn’t find it to be comphet. 

If you factor in the development Luka and Bayonetta have in Bayonetta 1 and 2 (irregardless if those games actually happened in Bayonetta 3 before the fact), they’ve known each other for a long time and care about each other. I was so into Bayonetta trying to save Luka at the end of Bayonetta 3 and turning him back from Stryder, AND the fact he does help you in the final boss. That is personally how I read Bayonetta 3 because I played the previous 2 games. 

I would consider BayoLuka to be comphet if they had no development or chemistry whats-so–ever. But they do. Luka literally went to hell with Bayonetta at the end of Bayonetta 3 because she died. It wasn’t like they were forced together at the end to make it a happy ending. I thought she was going to be forced into a relationship with him to make sure Viola exists in the future, that’s how bad I assumed the ‘comphet’ to be. It wasn’t. 

THIS IS ALSO IGNORING THE FACT HE LOVES VIOLA! YOU CAN’T TELL ME HE’D LOVE HIS DAUGHTER SO MUCH!!! The fact that he went after Viola first before Bayonetta at the end, possibly at the extent of Bayonetta’s life? Divine. I was hooting and hollering in delight watching him struggle to decide before he made his decision to save Viola. It was delightfully bittersweet and angsty. Incredible. While I’m normally not a fan of hamfisting established characters' children into media, I thought Viola was handled well. I loved her. 

Like, I dunno. You can be disappointed BayoJeanne isn’t canon, but you can’t ignore Bayonetta and Luka have and had have chemistry. No one (at least, recently that I have found) bats an eyelash about Link and Zelda (and Ganon) being linked to each other by fate with the number of people that ship Link and Zelda. It just feels hypocritical in this sense with the themes of family and motherhood/fatherhood in the three Bayonetta games. 

TO BE FAIR, I will admit the sudden development between them was a bit jarring, but I was into it. Again, I somewhat blame him being sidelined a bit in Bayonetta 2 overall, but I enjoyed he and Bayonetta were already familiar with each other in 3. Maybe it would have been better to see more development of them before the story took place, or in a different universe (i.e. Viola’s parents), but it’s not overly relevant. 

I was scrolling the Bayonetta AO3 page and found most people shipped BayoJeanne, but found very few recent fics about Luka. Hell, I made a Luka & Viola tag. There was none! At least, maybe there were so few fics it didn’t add the tag yet. 

Regardless, to me the fandom hates and is scared of Luka for basically no reason. I like Jeanne a lot, too, and she has chemistry, but crying comphet erases bisexual/pansexual people. Let alone the fact Bayonetta has 2 hands, and can love both Jeanne and Luka. I’m not sure fully where it comes from, but I am not going to let my boy be slandered on my watch. You don't think he's eating her out in hell in between being tortured? Please

TDLR: Read my fic about Luka and Viola please