#baz pitch meta

[lamentable-comedy]

The thing about Baz is that he's so good at not having the things he wants, but in a way that, like. Isn't repressing that he wants it in the first place. He acknowledges the desire, but denies any fulfillment of it and gets really, really good at doing that. His whole thing is carefully and deliberately maintaining a very rigid self control to compensate for how much of himself he feels like he is powerless over. You can't control the want, it's always gonna be there, but you can tell yourself it won't happen and refuse to consider indulging it.

He spends years knowing he's in love with Simon but wholeheartedly believing it's impossible that anything would happen between them AND, moreover, that it shouldn't. That second part is the important one, cause Baz isn't just against wanting things for its own sake, he's really hard on himself for wanting things that he thinks he shouldn't want or doesn't deserve. Like, "oh we can't have that, so it's Bad to want it". I think that's why there's less of the "I'm depraved, ask anyone" vibe to Baz's attraction to Simon in the second two books. I think he's still interested the same stuff with Simon, but because he now knows he can actually have a relationship with Simon, he's no longer moralizing wanting that, which I think leads to him being less likely to frame it as depravity in his own mind.

Also, if it wasn't obvious... this is a vampire thing. Like, Baz is like this because his daily existence is defined by craving something which would be morally wrong to take and which he therefore will never allow himself AND ALSO, Baz's vampirism is a really great metaphor for this part of his character. He forces himself to get by on more or less the bare minimum amount of blood. He doesn't drink humans. He can't control the desire for it, but it's an immoral desire and one he doesn't want, so he restricts himself as much as possible surrounding it. He never denies that the desire is there-- he can't-- but he DOES moralize wanting it; the fact that he wants to drink blood makes him an irredeemable monster who is unworthy of love and whom any Good Person would have killed. As a result, deny himself fulfillment becomes a way to punish himself (the Right Thing to do), for a desire he's disgusted by, and so he denies himself as much as possible, even beyond the extents of the desire itself.

Baz is ashamed of hunting and drinking animals, but he doesn't need to be. He's not doing anything worse than a human who hunts for food. But, because it betrays the deeper desire for human blood, it becomes shameful and something to deny himself when, really, it's neutral. Positive even, if you consider that it's a way of not, you know. Doing a murder. Compare Baz's perspective on it (not wanting Simon to see him drink rats, knowing what the bare minimum he needs to survive is in a way that clearly implies that he's tried only drinking that) to Simon's in "Snow for Christmas", where he expresses admiration and affection for how Baz looks feeding. Simon's perspective is devoid of Baz's moralizing self-loathing, and presents his behaviour without the baggage Baz has placed on it. Denying himself animal blood is not necessary and serves no purpose. Caring for himself by feeding is admirable.

I see Baz learning to control his fangs when he eats, on a metaphorical level, as a step in learning to manage the kind of big, desperate want that he moralizes and then denies himself, which itself lets him inch a little toward lessening the shame he feels. He moderates the desire (controls his fangs) rather than restricting his actions (not eating in front of people). This allows him decouple the desire (vamp hunger) from unrelated activities that he attaches to it (eating food), and actually let himself partake in something that previously felt wrong (eat food without revealing his fangs). His desire for blood is immoral, so he can't have that. All hunger is now associated with hunger for blood, so he can't eat around humans because he can't reveal that he wants something that he's Not Allowed to want.

I don't think the end point of his progress on this is indulging in the desires he feels ashamed of. Sometimes there are reasons not to do something you can't help wanting to do (there are some pretty good reasons not to go around drinking humans). I do think Baz needs to be gentler on himself for wanting things that for whatever reason-- shame, self-hatred, what have you-- he believes he shouldn't want. He only does this with his love for Simon because it's reciprocated, which doesn't actually solve the problem, it just recategorizes Simon/their relationship as something okay to want. He needs to learn to stop punishing himself for wanting things even if they're desires he can't or shouldn't act on. I think by AWTWB he has made progress. He's getting there. But MAN do I have a lot of feelings about the fact that he's like this at all.

[that-disabled-princess]

You know what, I'm making The Post.

Disability parallels in Carry On and why they matter

We know Simon's wings and tail are a metaphor for his queerness, but what about the disability parallels? The disability parallels in Simon's wings and tail, in Baz's vampirism, in Simon losing his magic.

Simon's wings and tail make life difficult for him. When he wears clothing at all, he has to either accommodate his wings and tail or deal with crushing them under clothing. Crushing them and that extra pressure can hurt like hell and really distract you, but having to constantly worry about accommodating yourself is also a huge pain. It takes a long time--learning to accommodate yourself and your disabilities in a world that just doesn't want to let you.

I'm pro-Simon keeping his wings and tail for this reason.

Baz's vampirism, while a metaphor for queerness, is also a metaphor for chronic illnesses. I don't have a chronic illness myself, so I can't really speak to this one, but it's still important to talk about the parallel. He has dietary accommodations he needs to survive, and not many people around him willing to accommodate that because of fear and prejudice.

As for Baz's leg... Oh, I'm so sick of the abled healing the disabled narrative. Let Baz be disabled. Let him have a fucked-up leg and use a posh cane. Let Simon and Baz be disabled boyfriends together.

Simon's magic is a whole other can of worms to open, but @messofthejess opened it this morning and I'm crawling through the unpleasant sliminess with them.

Simon losing his magic is an important disability parallel. He's had magic his entire life--had magic as a part of his body his entire life, even if he hated it the whole time--and now that part of himself, of his identity, is gone. Who is he without his magic? Who is he when the world he lives in revolves around and caters to people with magic? Who is he when people won't slow down to match the pace he's going at when he can no longer keep up?

Simon has to learn to live without his magic. Because as @ebbpettier said, tape exists. And sometimes wanting to go back to the way things were means you never move forward or grow. Because things will never go back to the way they were, too much has happened. You can never go back. Sometimes growing means letting go.

There are people who will accommodate Simon. He'll find his people. We all will. It'll be rough, it'll be hard, it'll take literal blood and sweat and an ocean of tears, but he'll get there.

These disability parallels are important and I think they should be talked about more.

[basilsleaf]

i have way too many ongoing projects so i will never write this but i need baz and simon's future told through encounters with simon's construction buddies, it goes like this:

most of the guys are older than simon it's like he's got a crew of dads

they're all straight dudes so they assume baz is simon's roommate who he's like best friends with until simon forgets his lunch or something and baz brings it to work for him and they smooch hello and goodbye

there's an awkward "so are you gay" moment but simon's like "i have a boyfriend and he's great is that a problem" and then it's over, the dad crew is supportive by nature and they adapt quickly

now at lunch or when they have drinks after work the guys ask about baz same as they ask about each other's wives and girlfriends and kids and simon feels very included

the guys have dinner and drinks every now and then where spouses come along and next time they invite simon to bring baz and baz is like not sure he's going to fit in and he's kind of right but the guys don't really care because simon is obviously smitten with him so what does it matter that baz is all posh

fast forward, baz finishes school and they're both nepotism babies so they decide to move to a new place with like a balcony and a guest room and simon tells the guys and they're all hype for him and they come over to help move furniture even though baz and simon can afford movers

fast forward, after lots and lots of trauma counseling simon is ready to start thinking about what he wants out of life and he's thinking maybe he wants to start a bakery or a cafe or something so he can be closer to his second and third truest loves: butter and carbs

when he's finally ready to open the cafe he announces to the guys that he's leaving and he's nervous that they'll be upset but they like completely lose it, they're so happy for him

they take him out for drinks on them, they promise to come in every tuesday for their morning coffee and donuts, they drop him off to baz at 2am on a thursday completely passed out, it's wonderful

fast forward, simon opens his business and sure enough, the guys are there every tuesday morning

fast forward, one tuesday the guys ask how things are going with baz and simon blushes super hard and pulls out the ring box he's been carrying around in his pocket since he bought it and the guys frighten the other customers with their excitement

two tuesdays later the guys come back after the cafe closes to take simon out for celebratory drinks because he finally asked and baz obviously said yes and the guys once again deliver simon home to baz absolutely wasted (with their congratulations)

at their wedding it's all insanely rich grimms and various distant pitches and lady ruth's family and also simon's old construction buddies tearing it up on the dance floor

fast forward, and life is just good and they have magic friends but also normal friends

baz is actually able to bond with them all over football, he even joins their recreational league for a few seasons and they are undefeated champions

one of the guys' kids feels safe enough to come out to their dad because simon and baz came over for dinner

simon teaches them all how to use tiktok and what a vibe is and encourages a few of them to go to therapy

they coach simon through marital arguments and buying a house and how to tell baz he wants kids

and maybe being a little normal isn't so bad when he's got a whole team on his side

[bazzybelle]

Good Omens 2 and Wayward Son - A Fan's Commentary on Fandom Reactions

I’m going to start off by saying apologies for any obvious grammatical errors. I am writing purely from the heart here. 

Also, apologies to my Sandman friends. If you haven’t read The Simon Snow Trilogy, this will go over your heads. However, I have been going back and forth on writing this meta since the release of Good Omens 2, and I just finished reading a spectacular meta on queer ships becoming canon by @avelera, which you can find here (read it, it’s brilliant). Anyway, I feel now’s a good time to let out all of my feelings when it comes to Good Omens 2 and how similar it was to reading Wayward Son. 

Simon Snow friends, you all know that Wayward Son is my favourite book out of the trilogy. You also know that this can be considered a controversial take within the fandom. And I don’t mean that in a toxic way, this fandom is one of the more wholesome fandoms I’ve seen; But in the way of like… Wayward Son is itself a polarizing book. 

I say this, knowing full well what went down when Wayward Son was released. Perhaps I had the advantage of not being completely embroiled within the Simon Snow  fandom until after I’d finished reading the book, but I lived on the periphery. I followed Rainbow on Twitter (fuck you, I am not calling it X), I had saved some artwork on Pinterest (before I found out those were stolen, wherein I immediately unpinned them and deleted my fandom folders), and I was excited to get Wayward Son as soon as it came out. So much so that I asked my husband to go to the Indigo near his office and buy it because I wanted to read it right away. 

Friends, I demolished that book within a DAY. 

Then I read it again. And again. And again. 

Then I wrote my first fanfiction in eight years. 

This book changed me. But you all know that. I’ve talked about it often, and that’s not what this meta (Editorial? Opinion piece? Shouting into the void?) is about. 

What I am going to talk about is the amount of pure vitriol this book got once it was released. There was SO MUCH complaining about the book. It was too short! There was no point to it! Why aren’t Simon and Baz having sexy vampire sex? Why aren’t they living together (never mind that this was briefly discussed at the end of Carry On, but go off I guess)? 

And you know what’s even funnier? Within a couple of weeks (it might have even been days, I’m a little fuzzy on timelines) Rainbow announced the third book. We knew, right away, that Wayward Son was meant to be an in-between book! Rainbow, being a fandom person herself, has said time and time again that she had always considered Wayward Son as an in-between book, structured like The Empire Strikes Back within the Star Wars original trilogy. Like think of the in-between books of any series, they are ALWAYS the darkest ones. In order to fully appreciate the win in the end, you need to go through the tough shit. 

What I loved about Wayward Son was it took that idea and spun it. It went all “ok, yeah we dealt with the win, now let’s deal with the aftermath. Only then can we have the makeouts and sexy times these guys deserved.”  (and damn, did Any Way The Wind Blows deliver on that promise).

But I am getting away from myself again. Point is, it was always meant to be an in-between book. There was always meant to be a resolution at the end of the trilogy. But that sure as hell didn’t stop people from outright demanding Rainbow give them the happy ending NOW. Pestering her on Twitter, (not so much on Tumblr) demanding she do this, or do that, or “you better not kill Baz” (even though she has ALWAYS SAID SHE NEVER WOULD) or “they better not break up” (even though, narratively, it was heading in that direction). The closer the book got to release date, the more people complained about how awful Wayward Son was. 

It was really disheartening to see. 

Which is why I got really upset when the SAME THING happened after the release of Good Omens 2. 

(For clarification purposes, because several of my friends have spoken to me about their own personal issues with Good Omens 2. And you are all super fucking valid. I am strictly referring to the amount of anger I saw online because although Aziraphale and Crowley kissed, they didn’t have an immediate happily ever after. I am also speaking of the anger expressed because the season wasn’t wrapped up in a neat little bow.)

Like with the release of Wayward Son, people seemed to have forgotten that season 2 of Good Omens was meant to be an inbetween season. Neil Gaiman has not been shy to talk about that. He has said over and over again that Season 2 was always meant to be a bridge between the Good Omens he and Terry Pratchett wrote together, and the sequel they had been planning. 

What… did you all just forget about that? Do you not know how narrative writing works? 

It’s like people refused to take a step back and breathe for a second and appreciate the season for what it was. A beautiful romantic story (because, IT WAS! Just like Neil said it would be), as well as a lead up into what will be the epic, dramatic conclusion. No, instead people started demanding the happy ending NOW, and getting angry when Neil wouldn’t budge and offer more information (even though he never has before) (funny how people just… forgot that).

It was Wayward Son all over again.

Yeah, I’m not going to lie, I was crushed with the way Good Omens 2 left off. Just like I was so confused when Wayward Son ended out of the blue. You know what I did about that? I wrote fic, I read the book again, and I happily anticipated the upcoming final part that would tie up all the loose ends.

Know what I’m doing to heal after Good Omens 2? I’m looking at gifs, rewatching episodes, laughing at memes and crack, and hoping to all the gods of story writing that Amazon approves of a third season, so that Neil Gaiman can be allowed to finish the story he and Terry Pratchett built together.

It’s become sad to watch this feral hunger from fans demanding immediate gratification, and getting upset when it isn’t the ending or gratification they were expecting. Wayward Son came out after years of Carry On fans having nothing else but the one book. Like I said, I wasn’t part of the fandom then, so I don’t know how fans from 2015 felt upon learning they’d get more Simon and Baz. Same with Good Omens. I only really got into the fandom a few months before season 2 came out. So I don’t know how OG fans felt waiting and waiting and waiting. So maybe I have that going for me as an advantage, that my hunger wasn’t growing more and more feral. 

Then again, I’m now a part of The Sandman fandom, and we’re essentially waiting on Season 2 to start development. And while I’m hoping a few things are tweaked (like Dream and Hob’s relationship), I’d be more than fine if it stays the same as in the comics. And if they decide to go about that in an entirely different way, I’d be fine with that too. You know why? Because I’ve learned to trust the writers of the stories I love not to lead me astray. 

And if I’m unhappy with something –because nothing is ever 100% perfect, and even my favourite stories end up coming short– there are always fanfictions to write, gifs to laugh at, and fandom friends to discuss plots and meta with. 

I may have lost the point of this meta. I tend to do that, following a train of thought that doesn’t always make sense in the end. 

Fandom friends, can we all just agree to take a breath and be thankful of the stories given to us? Can we learn to appreciate the entire picture, and not just a tiny section of it? And for the love of all that is holy, can we learn to be patient and to listen when our story tellers remind us to wait and see? To trust them when they assure us that our characters will have a happy ending, even if they need to traverse a little in the dark to get there?

I sure as hell am, and I hope you will too. 

Gonna tag @carryonsimoncarryonbaz because she was instrumental in encouraging me to write this.

[ionlydrinkhotwater]

I've been thinking about the difference between Davy and Malcolm and how Malcolm hurt Baz by the things he never said but through his actions demonstrated that he loves Baz very much. Like he never openly says he approves of who Baz is and of course Bazs hurt is valid in wanting to hear the words and not getting them. But Malcolm shows that he accepts him by making sure Baz has animals to drink and inviting Simon to Christmas. And Baz wanting to reach out to his dad in WS when he felt overwhelmed, he imagined that his dad would say things he didn't want to hear EX leave Agatha to die, but he knows it would be coming from a place where he values Bazs life and safety over Baz being a hero and Baz in his lowest moment wanting his dad shows that even Baz knows his dad loves him.

On the flip side as RR pointed out Davy says really encouraging stuff to Simon but he put in zero emotional labour behind it and when he did praise Simon it had strong stage dad energy where it's more about pressure, control and even vicariously living though him than actually building Simon up. I think its sad that for Simon Davys empty words are good enough because he had no way of knowing that it wasn’t. I think in CO when Simon wants to go to the Mage after he learns he's the Humdrum it's not to seek answers or comfort I think he knows that he's going there to be destroyed. Like all he is as a person is what the Mage made him and he's going to him to be destroyed figuratively and literally.

I just read "Crying in H Mart by Michelle Zautner and how parents can't always understand or especially for certain generations, express themselves to their children but they find avenues to show their love and I feel like Baz and Malcolm have that sort of secret language of affection with each other: Malcolm doing things to show his love for his son, Baz mimicing Malcolms habits. And I also finished "I'm Glad my Mom Died" by Jennette McCurdy and I feel like her Stage mom had so much Davy energy maybe Simon will get to a place where he'll be glad he killed his dad. I think Simon can sort of grasp that he loved Davy and I think the part of his emotions he's repressing is the part of him that's relieved he's gone and that maybe a part of him hates Davy. And he'll have to grapple with feeling both those things about Davy someday. Yeah reading books about complicated relationships with moms made me think about CO dads

I do think it's interesting that Simon when he thought hed marry Agatha he said hed ask Dr Wellbelove what hed do for his future or in SFC when he says he wants to join the RAF and I although I think that's sweet that he wants to be like his grandfather I also wonder if it's Simon attaching himself to another father figure that is also emotionally one sided (not because Andrew is a bad person but he's dead and so Simon can infuse him with the "footballer" dad fantasy he had when he's an orphan) Simon is constantly looking for a grown man to tell him what to do and who he is. He seriously needs to talk to someone, his dad issues are very meaty

[tyrannuspitch]

thinking about how the fragile alliance that reconciles sworn enemies simon and baz is... literally them plotting a murder together. like, they tend not to frame it that way, but baz says that's what he's doing at the beginning of their alliance, and simon doesn't walk away.

this is going to sound like a joke, but i'm serious: i think plotting murder together is an actual bonding activity / fucked-up love language for baz. he does this with his family!!! not in quite the same way, but still... i think the idea of being united with someone against the world is a very important one to him. i think he's very morally self-sacrificial with his family, and the idea that simon is willing to work with him, to "lower himself" to enabling "villainy", feels like a moral self-sacrifice being made for him. which is troubling, of course, but also very romantic.

like seriously let's think about it. years upon years of being taught that love is a reward for perfection and perfection includes willingness to be violent. willingness to set aside all your fears and loneliness and moral qualms and make sacrifices for your family, who have already sacrificed so much by allowing you to live. willingness to murder others. especially one boy in particular, a boy you are growing up with, a boy you share a room with. to give your life trying to murder him when surely he would win. and then there comes a time when family duty means you have to work with that boy. he's dirtying his hands by working with you. he thinks you want to kill him and he's still doing this willingly. but it won't last. you have this brief time together but he's still going to kill you in the end. and this only makes you fall more deeply in love with him. because this is what love is, isn't it? (or at least it's what love is now, for you. perhaps you could have had something else, once, but that possibility died with your mother, and this is what remains.)

[sailorblossoms-snowbaz]

Expectations really did kick Baz’s ass in ways that are wild yet... funny? somehow? (This is rant is a messy compilations of thoughts, some I’ve already shared here. If you decide to read this, godspeed)

I think about the rat hunting date, when Baz asks Simon, “you had sex with your gf, right?” – now, I’ve seen Baz being portrayed all blushy like “whaaat? i can’t get over this, tmi” or something, but I don’t think that’s it. Baz has thought about Simon sexually and has had Sexual Urges for years. When he asks this... he has already put 2 and 2 together in his head: “surely Simon would be the same with the only person he has ever wanted” – because that’s how he thought! In CO, Baz tells you that he believes Simon has only ever wanted Agatha the entire time he has known him. Baz was fully expecting Simon to reply “yeah, we did it, I liked it, it was good” and whatever. When Baz is like “that’s good” he’s operating on the assumption that sex is something to be congratulated for. Something The Bros hi5 each other over because it’s good and mind-blowing and shit (given how Dev talked to him about sucking cock, Baz is probably familiar with these scene). He was fully prepared to be like “I don’t like this, but there you have it: you were attracted to a girl, now you are attracted to me. That’s bisexuality.” It would have been the “easy” and “simple” scenario, but the opposite happenes. 

The reason Baz chokes all over rat's blood is not because he’s surprised by “yes, this thing happened” but likely 1. timing (he’s at his most vulnerable, doing something he associates with shame, Simon sharing this is the same) 2. it’s different to assume and to hear it being confirmed out loud. That whole exchange about Simon being like “I thought you knew” “I did, mostly” or something has to be about expectations and assumptions. There’s no way Baz would know for sure – these bitches were not talking about this. It makes the most sense that Simon, aware of expectations for boys like him and long-term relationships and a shit ton of other comphet bullshit and who he was supposed to be and be doing etc etc would be like “If I know, if I’m aware of these things, Baz would know too, he’s a smart cookie” and Baz is indeed aware. 

However!! Baz is dead wrong about a couple of things: 

1. He is the only person Simon has ever wanted (Simon tells us in WS! In italics! as if he needs to correct past assumptions that he ever wanted someone else before Baz!) This is where Simon gets the closest to voice this to him. in ways that are more romantic (“nothing I’ve ever experienced compares to you”) but perhaps less direct than explicitly thinking about sex with Baz and going “yep Baz is the only one I’ve ever wanted like this” (the only person he has ever actually wanted to have sex with) (If Baz thought Simon was only into Agatha while in school, it means Simon never showed actual romantic and/or sexual interest in anybody) (that’s not Baz)

2. The assumption that sex is always good/something to congratulate someone over (he should know better by this point... baby we’re going to get you a therapist to unpack those insecurities one of these days!) and that sex is confirmation of attraction, which Simon shuts down immediately (on both accounts!). This is what kicks Baz’s ass when he’s choking all over blood. That Simon is like “what the fuck are you congratulating me over? hell no, get this away from me” while kicking walls and trying to direct the conversion from something uncomfortable and unsexy (comphet sex) to something very sexy for Simon (Baz hunting. Baz covered in blood. Baz doing a little murder.) 

Now, Simon doesn’t outright say: “comphet sex sucks in such complex and confusing ways – this was a bad experience for me that I’m only now beginning to unpack, but I would rather not unpack it because it unsettles the shit out of me. While lots of us go through confusing and unsettling shit in the process of figuring ourselves out, I do not understand what it means that I chose to do this thing when I didn’t experience attraction, nor did I actually want it.” But it’s there, trust me. (Or don’t trust me. You’re welcomed to go through my little blog to find me unpacking this with examples and specific paragraphs and all that nerdy shit. Most of it it’s said without Simon outright saying it). 

“It was just going through the motions” is truly all you need to say it sucked ass (I feel like that winnie the pooh meme when I read “sex was good for them” in any way shape or form like... do we know what going through the motions means. Do we know it’s indicative of not being into it. Nerve endings and whatever stimulations are not necessarily going to override the negativity if your mind and emotions are not into it. Simply sticking something in a warm place is not good enough!) But Simon saying “it was fine” is more notable to me because, first of all, “fine” can be negative or positive depending on context. In a scale of things that are supposed to be super good and mind-blowing or whatever, “fine” is “meh” – it’s dismissive! it’s indicative of dissapoinment, even! shit could be much better than this! Also, “tis but a scratch” is Simon: 

Don’t wait for him to say “it sucked ass” to be sure it sucked ass!! Anyway, going back to Bazzy-boy: this is part of what Simon is communicating to him in ways that might be confusing and are certainly surprising to Baz. None of what Simon tells him is the “easy” or “simple” scenario. Baz doesn’t expect all this confusion – things are pretty clear for him (he has known himself/his sexuality for a long time now). Even the wrong things seem clear – though in his defense, Baz’s wrong assumptions are pretty normal assumptions. 

3. Simon is telling him that he wasn’t attracted to the one person Baz thought Simon had been into his entire life is important to note because Baz has actual programming he has to actively work against here. The only times Simon has ever pushed himself to process and then voice all the ways in which his past relationship was wrong were in the presence of Baz. Because Simon wants Baz to know. 

4. Going back to Baz having normal yet wrong assumptions... I really do mean it when I say Simon is trying to change the subject from unsexy to sexy haha. Baz assumed Simon would be normal about romance and sexual attraction, but he’s hit with “me doing a little murder is my declaration of love for you” “slaying a chimera in hindsight is totally a romantic thing, didn’t that give my love for you away?” “obviously there’s no heterosexual explanation for me showing up at all your football practices. let me say i didn’t like in 5th year and I still don’t like you anyway, like a damn liar”  “actual sex with my past gf? unsexy as hell, i’ll take no further questions thank you” “it’s very sexy when you hunt” “I want to kiss your bloody mouth with your fangs out, who the fuck cares about the plague!”

[shrekgogurt]

All I’m saying is Nick Jonas’s “Jealous” came out in the mid-2010s. And Baz tells us there’s constantly music playing in Las Vegas. And so there’s a non-zero chance that as Simon Snow is standing half a block away not smiling…such a song is playing.

And I want it to be so. We deserve that levity. A little giggle. A little laugh.

[wadinginthevelvet]

“Baz Pitch isn’t white,” I say into the mic.

The crowd boos. I begin to walk off in shame, when a voice speaks and commands silence from the room.

“She’s right,” they say. I look for the owner of the voice. There in the 3rd row stands: Rainbow Rowell herself.

[mosthomoeroticenemies]

The Contestants

Cherik (Professor X/Magneto) - X-Men

Fuffy (Faith Lehane/Buffy Summers) - Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Megop (Optimus Prime/Megatron) - Transformers

Curtwen (Curt Mega/Owen Carvour) - Spies are Forever

Thoschei (The Doctor/The Master) - Doctor Who

Perryshmirtz (Perry the Platypus/Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz) - Phineas and Ferb

Catradora (Adora/Catra) - She-Ra and the Princesses of Power

Soukoku (Osamu Dazai/Chuuya Nakahara) - Bungo Stray Dogs

c!TnTDuo (c!Quackity/c!Wilbur Soot) - Dream SMP

Spy/Supervillain - Genghis Khan by Miike Snow

Batman/Joker - Lego Batman

Wrightworth (Phoenix Wright/Miles Edgeworth) - Ace Attorney

Batjokes (Batman/Joker) - Batman

Lawlight (L/Light Yagami) - Death Note

Bowiugi (Bowser/Luigi) - Mario

Stanarrator (Narrator/Stanley) - The Stanley Parable

Kidlaw (Eustass Kid/Trafalgar Law) - One Piece

Shuake (Goro Akechi/Akira Kurusu) - Persona 5

Cuttletavio (Craig Cuttlefish/DJ Octavio) - Splatoon

Gethan (Rupert Giles/Ethan Rayne) - Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Zosan (Roronoa Zoro/Sanji) - One Piece

ChellDOS (Chell/GLaDOS) - Portal

Jesus Christ/Judas Iscariot - The New Testament

Gwensuzie (Gwen Cooper/Suzie Costello) - Torchwood

Krisnix (Phoenix Wright/Kristoph Gavin) - Ace Attorney

Griffguts (Guts/Griffith) - Berserk

Hannigram (Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter) - Hannibal

Ghiralink (Ghirahim/Link) - Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Valvert (Javert/Jean Valjean) - Les Miserables

Abestache (Detective Abe Lincoln/Wilford Warfstache) - Markiplier Cinematic Universe

Sasunaru (Naruto/Sasuke) - Naruto

Jedediah/Octavius - Night at the Museum

Nami/Kalifa - One Piece

Gabv1el (V1/Gabriel) - Ultrakill

Kazumaji (Kazuma Kiryu/Goro Majima) - Yakuza

Zukka (Zuko/Sokka) - Avatar: The Last Airbender

Ineffable Husbands (Aziraphale/Crowley) - Good Omens

Billford (Bill Cipher/Stanford Pines) - Gravity Falls

Evelyn Deavor/Elastigirl - Incredibles 2

Jennifer Check/Needy Lesnicki - Jennifer’s Body

Kigo (Kim Possible/Shego) - Kim Possible

Sportarobbie (Sportacus/Robbie Rotten) - Lazy Town

Swan Queen (Emma Swan/Regina Mills) - Once Upon a Time

Hardenshipping (Magma Leader Maxie/Aqua Leader Archie) -Pokemon OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

Westley/Inigo Montoya - Princess Bride

Sonadow (Sonic/Shadow) - Sonic the Hedgehog

Plabs (Plankton/Mr. Krabs) - SpongeBob SquarePants

Kylux (General Armitage Hux/Kylo Ren) - Star Wars

Johnchurch (Merle Highchurch/John Hunger) - The Adventure Zone: Balance

Basigan (Professor Ratigan/Basil of Baker Street) - The Great Mouse Detective

LonelyEyes (Elias Buchard/Peter Lukas) - The Magnus Archives

Johnjack (Jack Harkness/John Hart) - Torchwood

Blicy (Bloom/Icy) - Winx Club

Riddlebat (Batman/The Riddler) - Batman comics

Shin Soukoku (Atsushi Nakajima/Ryuunosuke Akutagawa) - Bungo Stray Dogs

Snowbaz (Baz Pitch/Simon Snow) - Carry On

Komahina (Nagito Komaeda/Hajime Hinata) - Danganronpa

Wonder Woman/Cheetah - DC

Spamvil (Jevil/Spamton) - Deltarune

Rk1000 (Connor/Markus) - Detroit: Become Human

John McClane/Hans Gruber - Die Hard

Fenders (Fenris/Anders) - Dragon Age 2

Vegekaka (Goku/Vegeta) - Dragon Ball Z

Rapple (Apple White/Raven Queen) - Ever After High

Billdip (Bill Cipher/Dipper Pines) - Gravity Falls

Radiostatic (Vox/Alastor) - Hazbin Hotel

Sirdust (Angel Dust/Sir Pretious) - Hazbin Hotel

Fengqing (Feng Xin/Mu Qing) - Heaven Official’s Blessing

Blitzer (Blitzø/Striker) - Helluva Boss

Martha May Whovier/Betty Lou Who - How the Grinch Stole Christmas

ZaDr (Zim/Dib) - Invader Zim

Sarumi (Fushimi Saruhiko/Yata Misaki) - K Project

Metadede (King Dedede/Meta Knight) - Kirby

Gandalf/Sauron - Lord of the Rings

Island Husbands (Ben Linus/John Locke) - Lost

Metromind (Megamind/Metro Man) - Megamind

Sherliam (Sherlock Holmes/William James Moriarty) - Moriarty the Patriot

Bujeet (Buford/Bajeet) - Phineas and Ferb

Grovyle/Dusknoir - Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky

Shassie (Shawn Spencer/Carlton “Lassie” Lassiter) - Psych

Rayaari (Raya/Namaari) - Raya and the Last Dragon

Tycutio (Mercutio/Tybalt) - Romeo and Juliet

Sherliam (Sherlock Holmes/James Moriarty) - Sherlock

Obikin (Anakin Skywalker/Obi-Wan Kenobi) - Star Wars

Obimaul (Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Maul) - Star Wars

Oncelax (The Onceler/The Lorax) - The Lorax

Owen Harper/Mark Lynch - Torchwood

Lord Hater/Wander - Wander Over Yonder

Gelphie (Elphaba/Galinda) - Wicked

Cruellanita (Cruella de Vil/Anita) - 101 Dalmations

Angelo Lagusa/Nero Vanetti - 91 Days

Discotrain (The Conductor/DJ Grooves) - A Hat in Time

Klapollo (Klavier Gavin/Apollo Justice) - Ace Attorney

Wrightdot (Godot/Phoenix Wright) - Ace Attorney

Kaneda/Tetsuo - Akira

Sydney Bristow/Lauren Reed - Alias

Ellen Ripley/The Xenomorph - Alien

Zadison (Zoe Benson/Madison Montgomery) - American Horror Story: Coven

Sterling Archer/Barry Dylan - Archer

Y’all (The Poll Takers)/Me (The Poll Maker) - askeletonwar

Just Walk Out!/Papyrus - askeletonwar

Londo Mollari/G’kar - Babylon 5

Rampage/Depth Charge - Beast Wars: Transformers

Pinariz (Riz/Pina) - Beastars

Kunieda Aoi/Hildegarde - Beezlebub

Sebagrell (Grell/Sebastian) - Black Butler

Gus Fring/Walter White - Breaking Bad

Spangel (Spike/Angel) - Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Spuffy (Spike/Buffy) - Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Winteriron (Tony Stark/The Winter Soldier) - Captain America: Civil War

Stucky (Steve Rogers/Bucky Barnes) - Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Carulia (Carmen Sandiego/Julia Argent) - Carmen Sandiego

Macavity/Munkustrap - Cats (1998)

Caius Marcius Coriolanus/Tullus Aufidius - Coriolanus

Dean Pelton/Dean Spreck - Community

Shadowghast (Caleb Widogast/Essek Thelyss) - Critical Role

Blumentrio (Caleb Widogast/Eadwulf Grieve/Astrid Becke) -Critical Role

Theopin (Lapin Cadbury/Sir Theobald Gumbar) - D20: A Crown of Candy

Hero/Villain - dannyphantom.exe

Clex (Superman/Lex Luthor) - DC

Babsquinn (Batgirl/Harley Quinn) - DC

Seavil (Jevil/Seam) - Deltarune

Rengoku Kyoujurou/Akaza - Demon Slayer

Mal/Uma - Descendants

Reed800 (Connor/Gavin Reed) - Detroit: Become Human

Ryokira (Akira/Ryo) - Devilman

Maxwil (Maxwell/Wilson) - Don't Starve

Nikki/Mackenzie - Dork Diaries

Gell/Frisky - Dot X

Dr. Horrible/Captain Hammer - Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog

Count Dracula/Jonathan Harker - Dracula

Joan Watson/Jamie Moriarty - Elementary

Zerxus Ilerez/Asmodeus - Exandria Unlimited: Calamity

Gratsu (Natsu Dragneel/Gray Fullbuster) - Fairy Tail

Gary/John - Faith

Peter Griffin/The Chicken - Family Guy

John Crichton/Scorpius - Farscape

Emiya Archer/Cu Chulainn - Fate Stay Night

Angeal Hewley/Genesis Rhapsodos/Sephiroth - Final Fantasy VII

Cidnero (Nero tol Scaeva/Cid Garlond) - Final Fantasy XIV

Willry (Henry Emily/William Afton) - Five Nights at Freddy’s

Victor Frankenstein/The Monster - Frankenstein

Cure Peach/Eas - Fresh Pretty Cure!

Haikaveh (Alhaitham/Kaveh) - Genshin Impact

Sugio (Sugimoto/Ogata) - Golden Kamuy

Nygmobblepot (Edward Nygma/Oswald Cobblepot) - Gotham

Mabifica (Mabel Pines/Pacifica Northwest) - Gravity Falls

Kagehina (Hinata/Kageyama) - Haikyuu!

[heeytwelve]

“Are you saying my name?”

[SPOILERS ALERT]

There is special place for names in  “Carry On” book by @rainbowrowell​, and  a lot of important magic moments around the names starting from silly middle names and ending in name excluding from books as a way to make person disappear. But today I want to talk about boys names and ways they express their feelings through use of each other’s names.

“Baz,” he says, and it’s not unprecedented for him to say my name, but I know he avoids it.”

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.” 

Ok, that moment really interesting to me. So Baz is mentions that Simon is avoiding using his name. Well, not really? Never have we ever encountered Simon calling him Pitch (which would be logical? They are enemies? Or maybe Simon thought it’s aristocratic name and sounds more compliment than insult?) or Tyrannus. Only once he uses his long name in message to Mage and it’s sorta cute and attentive.

“And then I add: “(T. Basilton Grimm-Pitch.)”

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.”

He’s not calling him like that when he _talks_ to Mage though. And Simon uses his FULL name when he looking for Baz. Though, it said that it’s only to make spell irresistible, it also shows how desperate Simon to find him. And how he remembers his long ass name by heart.

I mean, Simon definitely not avoiding Baz name, if anything, he actually enjoying saying it. And he does say it. Like, a lot. He says his name fucking THREE times in a couple of sentences, when he finally sees him in his last year.

“Baz. I stand up too quickly, knocking my chair over. Across the room, a mug falls to the floor and shatters—I glance over and see that Agatha is standing, too. Baz steps towards us. Baz.”

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.” Baz, though - yes, he is particularly un-easy about saying “Simon” (which what Agatha and Penelope have no problem with, or you know Gareth and everyone else), for Baz - “Simon” is almost shamefully erotic thing to say. Even in his thoughts BEFORE fighting with dragon episode he calls him “Simon Snow”, always these two names together, so Simon sounds like more than superhero than a person. Or he uses “Snow” when he talks about him in disgusted/sarcastic/somehow negative way. You would expect Simon talk the same way in his most negative thought about Baz, like call him Pitch, or insult him, but no. 

“I’ll kill Baz, so that he isn’t an option.” ...

He tilts his head and shrugs again. “Why wouldn’t she?” “Fuck you, Baz. Seriously.

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.” 

Not in negative thoughts, not in open heated confrontations. Always - Baz, never -  Pitch (which for instance Mage calls him plenty). Back to Baz. So he won’t say “Simon” until that dragon fight.

...when I hear Baz calling my name. I look up and see him running along the ramparts. ... “Simon,” he’s shouting, “don’t hurt it!”

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.”

I suspect Simon either doesn’t register that it (might be) either first time or very RARE occasion, but he’s too busy admiring the view :D But really, Baz saying his name publicly, out-loud, after he even didn’t allow himself to think this name (really, it’s first time we see Baz saying his name like that in the whole book!) - it is quite a biggie. And it shows that helping Simon was not about truce or dragon. It was response to Simon trying to comfort him. It was - “you’ve put our relationships in whole another level and I accept it” or at least “you’ve cared about me and I’ve been an arse and I regret it. I want more of that caring”.

Then, after this episode he will just slowly start to use “Simon” here and there. Even during confrontations.

“Yes,” I say. “What if I took your magic, cast it against you, and settled Baz versus Simon, once and for all. 

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.”

Like, how cosy he said that!  Baz versus Simon. Not Pitch versus (I dunno) Chosen One. Or at least Simon Snow. He even starts using his name in thoughts! 

“Simon grabs my other hand, and my chest opens wider. “Merlin and Morgana,” he says. “Are we in space?”

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.” What is funny with all of this, that Simon actually doesn’t pay attention to this! He only notices it when Baz literally throws it in his face.

“He’s just here to visit, Mother. We have a project we’re working on together—a school project. And you don’t have to call him that. You can just call him Simon.” “You don’t call me Simon,” I mumble. “We’ll be up in my room,” Baz says, ignoring me.

”Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.” Apple Books.  Uh-uh, Simon finally notices and he hits soft spot and Baz has ignoring as coping mechanism when he stressed :) Simon won’t let it go after that and THATS one of the best jokes in this book, joking around Baz and how sacred Simon’s name for him, so he can’t even use it as much as he can, it’s too intense. I like this scene where Simon actually demands that Baz calls him Simon. 

“I’ve been thinking,” I say, “if we’re going to do this, you have to start calling me by my name. “You have to call me Simon,” I say. “You’ve called me that before.” “Fine,” Baz says. “Get in the car, Simon. (next interaction) “Shut up, Snow.”

Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.” 

LIke - he’s been thinking. Long time. This is the only thing he planned (he’ve been thinking) to do in whole vampire finding/catching operation. Like, look how badly he want Baz call him by his name. And this discussion happend right after he thought about how Baz dating. He touched him to start this conversation. And again - whole thing too intense for Baz so he brings all of his defence mechanisms in - insulting and ignoring. Yep. Baz mad about Simons name.It is very special for him. Sacred. Erotic. Almost humiliating to say. It is love confession and not less.

But! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Baz name is less important for Simon to say. It is just different way of admiration. I would say it is like extravert/introvert way to express feelings. Like “I will eat this dessert as much as I can before I die from it. I’m going to inhale it. I’m going to be obsessed with it” versus “This dessert is SO precious to me, I will eat it only in a VERY special occasions. I will never ruin it or make it mundane, I never get bored with it”. They are both obsessed with each other names. They are both in love with them. They just different people and they express it differently. And that is also why Simon is so intense about Baz using his name. It’s almost like “I’m obsessed with you. I want you to be in love with me too. Please say my name. Because that’s how I express my feelings and I think that’s how it is". Being all delicate about over-using the name or being too vulnerable and too scared to use it - just not the thing Simon gets, it might actually feels rather cold shoulder for him.

Honestly though. I love how author showed us with this little thing as “name saying”, how different they are.

Aaand end this TED talk with one of my favourite (re-occurring) quotes. (which became sorta the way of flirting between these two)   “You’re an idiot, Snow.”   “You called me Simon before.”   “No, I didn’t.” Excerpt From: Rainbow Rowell. “Carry On.” 

[erzbethluna]

We like to think Lucy was going to be the perfect ideal accepting cute mom we want for Simon, and that she would open her arms selflessly to his boy's boyfriend and bless their union. And she is, she totally would. But I bet she would be a little shit about it, and she would DUEL Baz on a football match to prove his worth of Simon's hand. She would ruthlessly take down this kid who claims to be her son's true love. "Let's see, Basilton Pitch, if you are good enough for my son. Break me in a football match, no magic, and then you can attempt to propose to him. Salisbury's don't play games boy, we win them!" Simon would shout in embarrassment 'mooooommmm' and Baz would be compelled by Old Family blood manners to accomplish, only to be ugly beaten by his mother-in-law. Like, very ugly beaten down in the football pitch. (Of course she just does it for the fun and bless their union anyway, and she would bond with Baz over sports, team sports, cars and old magic. She would never shut up about how Baz is not 'strong enough for her son' but she does it jokingly and Baz just rolls his eyes in fondness. Simon never stops yelling 'moooommmm' everytime Lucy brings it xD )

[basilsleaf]

actually i'm not done strap in.

aside from simon and baz being adorable cohabitating boyfriends (still screaming about the wall kissing) snow for christmas made me sad.

baz doesn't want to be closeted by his family - about his queerness and his vampirism. "everything i am is something no one can mention." everyone is so excited at dinner about him eating with them as a family, but the reason he never ate with them before was because they can't stand to acknowledge what he is. simon never cared about the fangs. baz's family didn't have to care either, but that would require seeing their children as children and not props.

what is malcom really excited about at dinner? he's excited about this part of his child, the part he has always despised, being out of sight at long last. he's so glad he doesn't have to look at this part of his son that he's willing to tolerate the other thing about baz that he hates (queerness). he's pleased with simon because he thinks simon is the one who made the unmentionable thing go away. there's nothing heartwarming in that.

simon loves that baz is a vampire, even the gross parts. baz can kiss him with rat blood on his mouth and simon doesn't blink. simon wants to go hunting and watch baz drink. he thinks it's gorgeous. baz's own family can't bring themselves to love him that much.

this christmas with the grimms doesn't feel like a first step. it feels like a continuation of the same old shitty cycle.

[petedavidsonscock]

some meta thoughts about watford-era carry on fic

so my favorite fics, w carry on, are watford era, the kind of au ones where it’s like 7th year or whatever and simon & baz get together w/out plot intervention. and those are so fun & interesting to me bc there’s two things that need to happen for them to go from not-dating to dating:

1. baz reveals (somehow) that he’s in love with simon 

2. simon realizes (somehow) that he likes baz*

*i go back & forth on this, because, in carry on, i’m not even sure if simon likes baz until the truce. he’s definitely attracted to him--that’s repressed af, but clearly there--but i don’t really think he likes him, or wants to date him. 

i think sometimes people forget, because baz is so soft later on, that he’s actually, like, a huge massive asshole to simon for those first eight years of their knowing each other. and it’s crazy for me how people forget that because to me that’s what makes it so compelling. that, yeah, it was kind of mutual--it wasn’t like simon took things lying down; it’s not a bully-victim dynamic, which would require simon to be scared of baz, which he’s obviously not--but baz always initiated the cruelty, always struck back harder & worse.

which is: ahhhh!! obsessed w this guy. something is so wrong with him (intensely affectionate).

anyway, i don’t think simon hates himself enough--at least not before the events of carry on--to fall for someone who is just so consistently mean to him. so, really, the things that need to happen are:

1. baz is nice to simon

1a. simon falls for baz

1b. simon realizes that he’s in love with baz

2. baz reveals that he likes simon, AND

3. simon reveals that he likes baz

but here’s the fun part!! is you don’t have to make them happen in that order. like, that’s the order you make things happen in if you’re nice. but if you’re not nice, and the way you express affection for characters is by making them suffer, then silly little gears start turning in your silly little head.

like: what if baz is forced to confess his love before he’s ever been nice to simon? what if simon confesses but baz doesn’t trust him/doesn’t think they should be together anyway? what if i can feed into my obsession w the ‘secretly dating’ trope by forcing them to be mean to each other even tho they’ve both confessed?

i can’t think of a way to wrap up this post. i don’t even think it means anything. it’s late. baz pitch is hot. goodnight.

[ionlydrinkhotwater]

SO SIMON CAN SING

So some of us were trying to determine if Simon can sing. He never does throughout the whole series except when he tells us that he Sings the school song in CO.

We know that Baz can sing Simon tells us that he can and his siblings like when he Sings them to sleep. In WS Simon says Penny is flat and that in Co and AWTWB Agatha can sing but is embarrassed by her voice.

If Simon was bad at singing he would tell us. But he never says one way or another.

So I asked God herself

So we have the answer. What's interesting to me is that there is some evidence in the text that supports this inspite of the fact that Rainbow Rowell admitted she hadn't thought if it before being asked there are clues in the books that support her answer, shes not giving herself enough credit lol.

In CO he says this

And In WS Simon says this as he watches Baz and Penny sing.

He laments that choir was taken away. There's a wistfulness in this sentence.

Thank You @rainbowrowell so much for answering!!!!!!! You've made us all so happy!!!!!!!!

[tyrannuspitch]

something i think is increasingly important to understand about baz as a character, especially given how meta carry on is, is that baz’s arc in carry on is literally not a “redemption arc” and was never meant to be.

fangirl was written in 2014. the fan culture it’s representing is not the fandom of today. the widespread fixation on objective and rigorous morality, especially demanding that a character’s moral status be justified by canon evidence above all, is a very recent innovation.

yes, one of the key questions of baz’s character is, “how can we spin an established villain as a good guy?” 

but the means of doing so is not redemption. it’s re-examining the evidence and casting the original main characters as unreliable narrators. and, especially, it’s not just drawing its evidence canon characterisation and events, but also from signs of narrative bias, subtle contradictions, and negative spaces.

the story cath, and subsequently rowell, wants to tell is not “here’s how baz could become a better person,” but: “let’s look at this from a new perspective. what haven’t we been told? what doesn’t add up? who does it serve to treat this character as a flatly evil villain? and if you try to make sense of his behaviour, who does he become? given how little insight the original narrative gives us, is it possible that he was never a bad person to begin with?”

and because carry on is the realisation of all these fan theories and headcanons, “baz was never a villain” is exactly as true as “simon and baz are in love”. this is quite literally canon.

to be clear, i’m not saying this is a better or worse approach to villains in general. (i feel like having one fixed opinion on “redemption arcs” makes about as much sense as having one fixed opinion on “love stories”.) but this is the approach that carry on takes, and understanding what the narrative is doing is important if you want to understand the characters.

i’m also not saying that baz has never done anything wrong, or never hurt anyone, or never experienced growth. what i’m saying is that:

he was not worse than simon

he did not hurt simon more than simon hurt him

his pre-canon relationship with simon cannot be accurately described as one of victim and perpetrator, but of enemies on equal footing

his moral status at the end of the Carry On is no better or worse than his moral status at the beginning

in fact... i feel like you could frame it almost the inverse of a redemption arc. he’s not repenting, he’s taking back his repentance. (again, not necessarily better, just a profoundly different emotional journey.)

even if we were to see the war as baz’s sole responsibility (rather than his and simon’s and that of the dozens of neglectful adults around them)... telling baz “you’re a bad person, but you can change” is not what saves or stops him. it’s what’s killing him. and it’s literally what’s keeping him tied to his role in the war.

baz already thinks he’s evil - not because he’s a villain, but because he’s a vampire. the desperate hope that he can redeem himself for his vampirism, that his vampirism makes him equivalent to a murderer and so he has a life debt to repay, is 90% of his motive for serving the old families in the war. his family are willing to overlook his vampirism only as long as he rigidly conforms to their ideas of morality, honour, and duty. 

fiona even says the difference between baz and nicodemus is that baz didn’t want to become a vampire - so, the definition of a good vampire is one who sees his own vampirism as evil. this is unhealthy on multiple levels - for one thing, it encourages self-loathing and self-destruction, but... it also encourages him to defer to humans as a moral authority. if accepting his own nature can only lead to evil, then he is only capable of good by outside intervention - only redeemable through obedience. 

this isn’t a productive path towards growth. this is a toxic and destructive cycle which will only ever get worse.

what baz needs to hear to survive and to leave behind his villain archetype is “you were never evil to begin with”. he doesn’t necessarily believe it, but that’s because no-one has ever told him that before. it will take time. but it is experiencing compassion for his monsterhood, being challenged on his negative assumptions about himself, and seeing that simon, of all people, might be a monster too, that gets baz to a place where he is willing and able to stop the war. seven years of guilt and shame never accomplished that.

baz’s arc is not one of redemption. it’s one of escape.