#bc what does this mean of your ability to recognize real homophobia

[o-wild-west-wind]

tumblr algorithm stop feeding me takes that this show is just a silly goofy comedy that shouldn’t include death or that Izzy is the token disabled elder queer on the show where an actual disabled elder queer is literally the romantic lead or that Lucius and Pete being called “mateys” is diluting their gayness because it’s not “husbands” or that it’s sexist that Zheng lost her fleet and later prioritized her love for a man or that Ed is Izzy’s abuser because we conveniently forgot all of season 1 or that trauma is never followed through with because sometimes actions are used instead of words or that Ed learned nothing because the inn was apparently a whim as if he hasn’t been obsessing over retirement from day 1 I swear did we even watch the same show?? I literally feel like I’m in backwards land?

I have a really novel concept for y’all complaining about character’s arcs not being fully resolved or healed and that’s called there is supposed to be another season of this show

I also have another really novel concept as to why every single character did not have a one on one trauma apology session and so much time was spent on Ed and Stede and that is because this is literally the Ed and Stede show and also sometimes parallels are meant to be inferred and extrapolated because that is what efficient storytelling does instead of spoonfeeding you

And my most novel concept of all as to why some beloved characters had less screen time is because Max is a massive jerk and cut the budget

Y’all this wasn’t personal and maybe this show was never about Izzy maybe the show called our flag means death is actually about death maybe sad does not equal homophobic letdown maybe the brown gay character introduced as the love interest from day 1 gets to outlive the angry white guy that had a redemption arc after actively bullying and trying to break up every gay couple for a season I don’t know what to tell you just can you please let non-white people have this arc for once without assuming it’s an attack on you I’m BEGGING y’all

[bthump]

I know this is very nitpicky, but what do you think is the level of awareness Griffith has during the stairwell scene? For a very calculated and rational guy like him, it's hard to imagine that he hasn't even tried to decipher where these strong reckless reactions come from. I mean... even king of denial Guts has reflected a bit on it. Enough to ask Griffith about it. I know yoy mentioned in a recent answer to an ask, that you don't headcanon Griffith as pining, so would you say that you (cont)

Would you say that you imagine that he compartimentalizes his thougts and represses to the point that he doesn't aknowledge at least to a certain extent, that his feeling for Guts are more passionate, than what he feels for other comerades. The fact that he fully realises the depth of those feelings once Guts leaves is clear. But Idk the stairwell scene makes me think that he is at least aware, that he has a bit of a crush, but choses to not give it much importance. Curious about your thoughts 

hmmm. okay first off I just want to say that I can see multiple possibilities, from full on repression and denial, to recognizing his attraction but not acting on it, to knowing he cares for Guts and wants him as a True Friend(TM) but often downplaying that because he believes Guts sees him mainly as a superior officer. But yeah I do prefer the denial and compartmentalization explanation and I want to go into why, because I think it’s fun to talk about lol.

So the big reason I read Griffith as refusing to acknowledge his feelings to himself is because that’s how he deals with all his other inconvenient feelings, like his guilt and fear and the fact that he cares about the Hawks. Like eg when he tells Gennon that he doesn’t feel a single emotion about him whatsoever, or when he tells Casca that he doesn’t feel guilty over the deaths of the Hawks, I don’t think he’s just lying to them, I think he’s convincing himself too, to the point where he really believes it.

It’s sort of hard to explain how I see this working in Griffith’s head bc it feels v intuitive to me but I know that’s not the case for everyone. So yk it’s not that I think he like, eg makes himself forget that he nearly had a breakdown in a river, but I think he doesn’t ask himself why he nearly had a breakdown beyond maybe a shallow ‘sex with gennon was unpleasant and made me uncomfortable for a couple hours but i’m completely fine now’ and doesn’t think about it afterwards if he can help it.

And when he tells Charlotte he doesn’t have any friends and tells Guts he belongs to him during the second duel, I think he’s telling himself lies/rationalizations he genuinely believes there too. In fact, I think his denial of his own feelings is straight up meant to be his tragic flaw, which is why he’s only able to finally acknowledge them in the torture chamber, after it’s caused his downfall.

In the torture chamber we see him remember the face-off with Zodd and acknowledge that it was an irrational thing to do and wonder why Guts is so important to him, and I think part of the reason the monologue works so well is because it’s the first time we see that kind of self-reflection sans lofty rationalization from him, because before he ended up trapped in his own brain for a year with nothing to distract himself in between bouts of torture he didn’t really ask himself these kinds of questions. If he had, things probably would’ve gone better for everyone.

And like, I don’t think this makes Griffith less intelligent, or negates his rationality in other areas of life. I don’t see a contradiction in someone being able to analyze a battlefield or read other people well but avoiding genuine soul searching whenever possible and lying to himself a lot. I think it’s actually pretty realistic - I don’t think very many people fully understand themselves or their feelings, even really self-reflective people, and it’s very easy to rationalize away inconvenient cognitive dissonance. and I include myself in that lol.

Griffith’s life is kind of a contradiction that would really fuck him up to untangle (he sends people to their deaths to achieve a dream for the sake of assuaging his guilt for sending people to their deaths to achieve a dream), so he doesn’t try to untangle it, he avoids the question and hides behind a philosophical ideal. And his feelings for Guts add to that cognitive dissonance because if he values Guts over the dream, that kind of proves his entire defensive life philosophy is bullshit and his whole life plan is built on a precarious house of cards, so it makes sense to me that he’d avoid examining those feelings closely too.

And you can look at Guts too, who does navelgaze a lot and tries to analyze his own feelings and motivations - when he’s faced with a contradiction (I want to become independent of Griffith and do my own thing solely to gain Griffith’s approval) he actually notices it and briefly questions himself... and then he still puts it out of his mind and continues pursuing his contradictory goal anyway, and manages to stay in denial for 3 days even after learning that Griffith ended up in a torture chamber because he left.

Along those same lines, Guts eg realizes that he kills things because it makes him feel better but he doesn’t make the connection between his irrational urge to fight powerful enemies and his childhood trauma the way the readers can, the King didn’t acknowledge his incesty feelings til Griffith shoved them in his face, Count Slug kept denying having human feelings til Puck went on a tirade against him and he couldn’t sacrifice his daughter, Casca lies to herself about her feelings for Griffith for a long time before finally acknowledging she’s in love and then doubles down on her Griffith feelings when her newer feelings for Guts threaten them until she has a breakdown and admits some things to herself (I mean I find that last one disappointing lol, but it’s also a really straightforward example of someone living in denial of romantic feelings and therefore a good comparison point to show that Miura does this on purpose), etc. So I think this interpretation of Griffith is also consistent with how Miura just like, tends to write people.

Like imo Griffith has moments where he comes close to self awareness and could’ve started potentially reflecting on his feelings and coming to better, more accurate conclusions, and those moments definitely include the Zodd conversation (as well as the river scene with Casca, and “do you think I’m cruel?”) but none of those scenes lead to useful self-reflection because they all go wrong. Casca tries but fails to reassure him bc she’s out of her depth, Guts reminds him of his dream, the King interrupts their conversation and Charlotte reorients Griffith towards his goal so he can move on from that moment of irrationality and refrain from thinking about it further for a while. Even after the duel Griffith tries to avoid self-reflection by fucking Charlotte imo (”take all the sad and frightening things and cast them into the fire” ie hey girl wanna repress some shit w/ me?), and imo his previous ability to do that makes it all the more impactful when it doesn’t work this time and he breaks down.

BUT YEAH all that said I don’t think this is the only reasonable reading of Griffith’s awareness of his feelings lol, it’s just the one I like best and consider the most satisfying and interesting and fun to think about. And honestly that’s partly because I love dramatic irony and have a real thing for characters who lie to themselves, so I’m biased in favour of it too. Nothing about Griffith being good at denial contradicts the idea that he could still be aware of an attraction to Guts (in that case he’d probably just write it off as irrelevant and deny the associated internalized-homophobia-related self-loathing lol until it all pours out while he’s projecting at the King), and he could eg be aware that he irrationally cares about Guts above and beyond anyone else and just doesn’t even try to reconcile that with his dream, ie compartmentalization in another way.

But I think the idea that he only fully admits it to himself in the torture chamber is just very narratively satisfying.

[fishfem]

ok those ppl were obviously super wrong because homophobia is OBVIOUSLY infinitely worse but like... "no one is saying biphobia isn’t shitty" half the ppl in that post are on record as saying biphobia isn't REAL lol. Do you push back when they say that stuff or let it slide?

Also not sure what you mean by saying we can just choose to "avoid direct homophobia". As a teenager I was raped by someone that singled me out for being bi. In college, I was outed to my parents, kicked out, cut off, forced to drop out of school, and homeless for a year. How do I "choose" to avoid that, or how much it derailed my life, nvm the trauma? If I date someone of the opposite sex and they abuse me bc I'm bi (as happens at elevated rates towards bi ppl), is that not "direct homophobia"?

Yeah. just because biphobia isn't oppression (ie structural, society wide) doesn't mean it's not a prejudice that should be combatted and i do try to speak up when i see people pretending bi people are never singled out for being bi or implying bi people do not suffer.

also yes, as bisexuals, y'all can literally just go back in the closet. and still have a happy relationship. does that mean everyone will believe you or forget you came out? no. but you could move. new life, pretend it never happened, and be in a relationship with someone youre attracted to. that's a privilege. that doesn't mean y'all don't face homophobia or that it wouldn't fucking suck to have to do that but that is something y'all can do that gay people simply cannot. it's the reason many bisexuals (males, commonly) will deny being bi. because they can, and at the end of the day, they can still have a happy relationship without being discriminated against. a bi person could choose to never put themselves in the line of fire of homophobia and many do. i do not blame a single one of you for that. no one deserves to face homophobia and to have the option to avoid it is something that is very understandable to take. it also makes people like you, who choose to come out, who choose to be in same sex relationships, smth to be respected— yall chose to face this when you had the chance not to. that said, gay people do not have that chance. we can hide being gay, but we can never be attracted to our partners if we do. we will never have good relationships if we do. we will not be able to be happy in our relationships if we do. we would have to force ourselves to have sex with people we are not attracted to, if we do.

but bisexuals can have all that. it's not through any fault of yours. it's a privilege by design of the system. the ability to be attracted to the opposite sex is a privilege.

i don't get why bi people hate to recognize that. it doesn't diminish your pain. like i said, if anything, it's to be respected in a way. it doesn't mean that, when people know you're ssa, they're less homophobic. it's just the truth. yall are opposite sex attracted. that is a privilege. and you can, very understandably, choose to focus on that and ignore the rest.

[reddogcollar]

thinking more if my funny little rewrite thoughts so like. here's an entire run down of what I'd do with season 1 of my pride

under the cut cuz its long and like. warning for like. everything that already happens in the series anyway

starting first! with the naming conventions. so the whole naming scheme is appropriation of indigenous culture. and I'm white so take this one with a grain of salt but replacing that mess with instead the mother naming the cub after a trait after getting to know em would. probably fix it? Like naming a cub Power or Tenacious and. stuff

the names could not only be personality based but just general descriptors. Quick for someone fast, Golden for someone blonde, Cherished for someone especially loved by their mother. Names could also be based off something they want the child to be, like Fearless or Perceptive. naming a child after something they don't start as, but turn out to be instead would make everyone to regard the mother as an especially good one for knowing her child so well. Being wrong would have the opposite effect. Waiting too long would bring scorn, implying you don't spend enough time with your child to think of any name at all.

Prideless lions wouldn't be named by their parents at all, instead given the right to name themselves based on what they think. This leaves room for them to rename themselves as grow and change, something pride lions cant do. Until the cub names themselves, the mother will refer to them with affectionate nickname.

and I think that. fixes that issue. onto plot

I think episode 1 is fine left alone, though all three children would be left unnamed. though I think its weird how quick managed to rip off the skin all around nothing's eye but didn't actually damage it. Like at all. so she's half blind now too.

So they go on lion trial, power saying quick is unfit because he was bested by a cub, so there's no way he could've beat star fairly. sharp calls forth the currently unnamed fire to ask his opinion as a supposed witness. even though I'm pretty sure he ran away before star died? eh <3

despite having the chance to get rid of quick, he says it was fair and quick has earned the pride. whether or not that's true, fire is a devout believer in pride law and a pride without a mane would be worse than a pride lead by a cheating mane.

because nothing and quick each half blinded each other, they go with the law of equivalent exchange. one each gets something from the other. nothing asks for her and her brother's lives to spared, and quick asks that she always takes as little resources as possible

instead of like. skipping 2 years. it would instead actually like. show the childhood. how nothing is ignored by her on mother, and doted on by fire. specifically because he think she's weak. despite doting on her, he also generally ignores her opinions.

even as a little wounded baby she gets the least food and water, enforced by quick and even fire sometimes, rules are rules. some of the unnamed adults will try to cheat this tho and get her more food and water cuz Holy Shit? Dude?

when she's a little older and not. covered in open wounds. the adults more or less stop trying to protect her. she's on her own now, and they have cubs of their own to worry about anyways.

since time is also a resource she gets the least of that too, most notably the least time being trained in anything. hunting, fighting, tracking, she's taught the absolute least.

despite that, she always tries.to do the absolute most. first to volunteer for anything she could theoretically do, last to get picked for any minorly important task. getting ridiculed for doing things slower due to her limp, to the point where she starts trying to just power through the pain to walk normally. it only slows her down and she gets mocked more. fire generally doesn't stand up for her, just makes her lay down

eventually she starts getting out a bit. The younger cubs mock her, their parents don't stop them, her mom never speaks to her unless its to antagonize her, and quick is downright terrifying. despite being healed up, fire never leaves her alone and disregards her when she wants to be alone.

this is how she meets hover, who is now named insightful. bc I just inexplicably cant stand the name Hover for a lion. she thinks she's insightful, but she's kind of just snarky and a little mean without saying anything w real depth, probably bc they're all prepubescent

despite being snarky and a little mean, she's a breath of fresh air to nothing cuz she's yk. not ableist and calls fire out when he starts acting ableist. its a short interaction, and when they're home fire immediately goes to tell his mom there's not only a prideless lion in their territory, but a cub, implying her mother and possibly siblings are around. cuz he's a little bitch

nothing gets into an argument with him over it, she could've been their friend after all, and both fire and her mom yell at her for even thinking about disobeying pride law

not sure what else to do here, so skip to when they're 2 and fires about to be kicked out. they're both still nameless, bringing a lot of bad opinions power's way. she's also required to name at least fire before he leaves. so she sits down, rolls her eyes, and half asses the name fire. quick is about to push him out but nothing interrupts, saying she still needs a name.

power gets annoyed and demands what she could even be named after, her injury? her disregard for the law? her ability to butt in at the most annoying times? nothing sputters, shocked and unable to come up with a response for a moment. before she can, she's named nothing

she protests, and even fire thinks that's a lot. they're both shut down, by power and quick respectively. most of the present adults are shocked, some of the older ones even appalled. none step in though. fire has to go, and nothing leaves toward the watering holes so she doesn't cry in front of her mom. all that stupid shit is internalized though so she starts trying again to support her full weight on her leg no matter how much it hurts. thinking maybe it broke and healed so wrong that it can barely support her now. idk I'm no doctor

she ends up laying down by the water, feeling all bad and in pain. then she notices the crocodile and some other lion and yada yada saves her life. insightful immediately recognizes her and that stops nothing from chasing her off. they catch up a little until they hear someone coming. insightful runs off and farleap, now called jumper comes out of the grass.

she questions nothing, she heard something and she can definitely smell a stranger. nothing lies and said she just chased off a prideless. jumper doesn't seem convinced, but doesn't push it because the stranger is gone, at least. so she just gets her drink and nothing goes home. and that's the day.

next day we can be introduced to feather, now named light. he's the runt of his litter, the lightest color of his siblings, and the light of my life. his name has nothing to do with the reincarnation stuff, which ill get into later. he gets teased for being smaller than his sisters, but keeps up an over energetic, happy mood that children have. he prefers hanging out with nothing though, seeing as she's not gonna be mean to him for being short.

he refuses to leave her alone to the point of finding out when nothing starts sneaking out to see insightful. their little dates go all nice and cute until light jumps out of the bushes scaring the life out of them. nothing freaks out a little because holy fuck? quick's son just found her out? oh god oh fuck! insightful is just amused though, because children are funny.

they make light swear to keep it a secret, and he promises. as long as nothing lets him go with her whenever he wants, because its fun breaking the rules and being out at night. it's a little less fun third wheeling on your cousin's date when you're like 7 but its fine cuz insightful plays with him

everyone thinks its pretty weird how both nothing and light are getting exhausted in the middle of the day, and jumper is still on that "I don't believe that you chased that prideless off" stuff, and eventually convinces power of increasing like patrol or whatever, and everyone keeps their guard up, making it harder for nothing and insightful to meet

this spurs nothing to ask insightful to join, to which insightful asks her to leave the prides and go with her. nothing says she doesn't want insightful to just have to take care of her and it goes back and forth and its a whole thing. it turns into an argument and they part ways for the night before it can escalate further.

the next morning, insightful has shown up and is asking to join. mostly so she can spend more time trying to convince nothing to leave the prides with her.

they get convinced and she is stripped of her name immediately. either quick or power will rename her when they come with something suitable. of course she is. upset as all hell. she swallows it though, since she's never seen nothing so happy. light is ecstatic, also, cuz he thinks she is cool.

go through some time showing insightful being worn down by pride life, nothing still continuing to practically destroy her body to make herself palatable, and light being downright bullied because he's still smaller than his everyone his age. quick even starts looking down on his son cuz Why Is He Still So Small? light begins to resent his father, and pride life a little.

jumper is rude as hell, naturally. except this time insightful actually stands up for nothing by cuz holy shit? that's your girlfriend why wouldn't you help her?

we can also implement the homophobia rule here. because of course power is a homophobe. would you expect anything less??

and yeah that's the vibe until nothing is left with some unnamed lion to look after the children while everyone else is off doing things that are important. she goes off for a drink and light follows her because of course he does. yadda yadda fire is back for a visit cuz he thinks nothing is like. useless and can't survive without him. their little visit goes down light thinks its so cool to meet a bunch of prideless men yk yk

on their way back they run into quick, who is followed by power and insightful. that unnamed lion with the other children said nothing and light had been gone for a long time and quick is pissed off cuz that's his only son n she just took him off for a jaunt.

he's yelling at her and insightful is about to interject before she's stopped by power, and light interrupts his dad to tell him about fire's group. cuz hey it'll make him leave them alone so like? go off??

nothing gets pissed off at him though because he just sent his murderous father off to kill her brother. rude or not he's still important to her. she and power have their interaction, power whining about how much she "loves" her children, you know. except nothing disowns her. power gets called out and yk yk. its a whole thing and gives nothing some of the agency she lost over the years

then she goes off to find quick, insightful follows her to help, and light follows them because he feels bad.

quick is dead, proud is a dick, light is hidden away in this scene. it goes much the same except light is seeing his father's corpse for himself and insightful is there negotiating their lives alongside nothing. also threatening proud

they yet away with their lives and run as far away as possible just in case he comes after light. nothing may be annoyed but letting your small cousin be murdered isn't cool

so they go off to find fire. its important to nothing cuz ykkk he's her last living sibling and as far as she's concerned, her remaining immediate family. he treats her how he does cuz he loves her, right? right. right?

nothing lives on the stretch how she lived in the prides, taking as little as possible of everything. insightful starts trying to get her to eat more before she like. drops dead. but its hard bc yk internalized self hatred is a vibe. they stay hot on fire's trail, until they come across some bones, a lot of blood, and the eaten remains of tangle. I'm making that plot point more fucked up.

everyone is of course freaked out, and insightful immediately takes it on herself to make sure nothing and light have some skill in fighting cuz Oh My God! they each play to their strengths, and it's like typical training montage. I like to think that with nothing's bad leg opponents would naturally try to take advantage of her balance, and which point she could rear up on her hind legs and then unexpectedly just crash down onto her opponent with her full weight. idk I've never seen a lion fight.

so yeah they eventually find fire and light and insightful are like. not trusting him at all, they suspect him. nothing isn't so hasty with the blame, cannibalism is a lot to accuse your brother of. fire says that if he takes over the nearest pride, he can change her name due to her time as a prideless lion.

as discussed, light objects. he thinks she should be able to choose her own name. pride or not. fire the devout follower of pride law didn't like that

they kill that old man, fire demands the pride, moonstrike (now striker) denies him and he's like. "You cant do that. That's illegal" and striker claims he couldn't have beaten her mate in fair combat after getting his ass kicked the first time. plus he's got some random child that isn't his

he takes that as "kill the kid" and yk. goes after light. nothing's reaction time is normal now though and barrels into him before he can rip lights throat out. he's still gravely wounded though, so much so that insightful is fully occupied trying to keep him alive.

nothing and fire square off, fire is ableist, nothing challenges him. You know. except this time she kills him. she gets him on his back and cuts him open, guts everywhere. no Ghost scene.

Injured and horrified, she lays down. she's like. going to have a breakdown. she just killed her brother, light may be dead, these strangers won't quit staring at her, its not good. episode end.

cut to like next morning and nothing's injuries are being taken care of at the same time as light's. insightful is in there with em talking with striker. noticing she's up, striker asks her name. I'm still not sure what I'd want her to change it to but she does change it. perhaps Enough?

idk idk either way, she doesn't get the pride. she beat fire but it wasn't his to give. however, striker offers them all a place there, including light. boom season 1 end