#because orpheus saw hades in epic iii

[kredensik]

“his kiss, the riot” is the song of all time

[viola-halogen]

Ok I already wrote this out in my notes but I thought I’d post a compilation of some of my thoughts/things I noticed about Hadestown when I saw it in London.

Firstly I mentioned in this post a thought I had during Doubt Comes In about Orpheus being injured after Papers and that making it harder to walk out of Hadestown

Secondly GENDER NEUTRAL HERMES IS ELITE. I loved that they were actually referred to with they/them pronouns a couple of times. Also Orpheus saying “excuse me Hermes” instead of “Mister Hermes” like. This boy is so polite.

Dónal Finn was absolutely devastating during Is It True. Like the way he just SOBBED “is this how the world is?” gave me intense chills

Multiple times during When The Chips are down Eurydice seems to be pleading with Hermes to tell her what to do, but Hermes just doesn’t respond. It really showcased how they can only tell the story, they can’t influence it

Also during Why We Build The Wall Hermes is the only character who isn’t singing—they’re just standing there the whole time stony-faced and silent despite at points Hades singing directly at them like he’s trying to get a rise out of them. Like it portrays so well how Hermes is outside of the story and also how they’re mourning it and have been since they started telling it.

Just in general Melanie la Barrie did such a good job portraying the tragedy of Hermes and being the powerless narrator

Zachary James was made for the role of Hades. His voice was incredible and his physical acting was so enjoyable to watch.

Also His Kiss, The Riot was incredible. Probably on par with Stewart Clarke’s Javert’s Suicide

After Why We Build The Wall Hades walked over to Persephone and touched her arm and she flinched and shoved him off and it was a really powerful moment because for the whole song Persephone is like a wall herself and in that moment you see the cracks in her composure

During Epic III after Hades hears The Melody he rushes over to try and subdue the workers and is physically taken aback when he realised he doesn’t have power over them anymore

Also at the end of Epic III when Hades finally sang The Melody Persephone burst into tears and Oh My God

Hades and Persephone’s dance was so dorky and sweet in They Danced and honestly Zachary James’s Hades was just so dorky in his more human moments. Peak endearingly awkward old people.

During Orpheus’s parts of Doubt Comes In the stage is completely dark with only him lit so that we can’t see Eurydice either and even we’re not actually sure if she’s there

I love all the ways in which they make the audience complicit in the story. Like obviously there’s the “we’re gonna sing it again” motif and like, by nature of us being there we’re part of the reason the story’s getting told again

But also in Epic III the audience laughs when Hades says “oh, it’s about me” and that’s what makes Orpheus lose his nerve and have to be encouraged by Hermes

Also when Hermes tells Orpheus and Eurydice “you’re gonna have to prove it before gods and men” they gesture to Hades, Persephone and the Fates as the Gods and then to the audience as the men. Like it just cements how we have a role to play as Orpheus’s audience, the thing that gives him his power

Which also makes me think (even though it probably wouldn’t work) how cool it would be if in Our Lady of the Underground the audience was expected to join in on the chorus lines (when Persephone sings “brother what’s my name?”)

[irisbleufic]

We had tickets to see Hadestown both last night and this afternoon in Albuquerque because the seats were so fucking affordable, like…we got 2 performances, 2 seats each, for what it would cost in any other city to see it just once. Absolutely bonkers.

Last night’s show? Electrifying in a way that the cast combination we saw in Fort Worth (the first time we saw it) just wasn’t. Amaya Braganza (Eurydice), Daniel Tracht (Orpheus), Lana Gordon (Persephone), Matthew Patrick Quinn (Hades), and Will Mann (Hermes) nailed it. 20/10, no notes. IMO, they were better than the original cast recording in every respect, and better than the Fort Worth cast in most respects (Hades was the same in Fort Worth, but every other principal performer has changed since). I’ll never forget it.

Today’s show, same cast? The fire alarm was pulled less than 10 minutes into the show. The net result was the show effectively starting an hour late, and something happened during intermission where one of the Eurydice understudies had to come on unexpectedly for the remainder of the show. The understudy was still excellent, but man, the fire drill really played havoc with the energy.

Last night’s show might be one of the best live performances of anything I’ve ever seen, though. It’s harder to make me cry with music than it used to be, but last night got to me. Hades and Persephone were both crying silently, but so openly during Epic III that you could see their tears hitting the stage.

(It also made me feel really, really fucking justified in what I wrote in that fusion fic earlier this year, because Jesus Christ. The vibe I was aiming for wasn’t 100% in the Fort Worth performance, but it sure as hell was in last night’s and today’s.)

[dreadful-windandrain]

just remembered i never made a post after i saw hadestown on tour!!!! here's my favorite bits:

the trombone player. just in general

actually the whole band! had no idea they'd be on stage except for the drummer

hermes is eating it up in every scene and at one point i thought he was about to blow out his mic

THE SET MOVES. not just the turntable but the side bits of the set stretch out during wait for me and retract during road to hell reprise. and there's a part that opens vertically. it's mostly when the train arrives or to introduce the workers to the scene. eurydice is taken back to hadestown in it too

not my note but the friend who i took to the show said hades made her question her sexuality

PERSEPHONE. she's so weird and fucked up the entire show and i love that for her

during all i've ever known eurydice "falls" in orpheus's arms a lot. the foreshadowing was killing me

the fates and orpheus played their own instruments??? also didn't know that was a part of the show

the lamps in wait for me should be paid actors

the lighting!!!! the harsh lights for hadestown and the color changes especially

eurydice seemed more sexual than i expected? i think it's because the actor's voice was husky and lower than bway eurydice. not a complaint though

orpheus also was different. i've only listened to bway hadestown so maybe in other versions he's like this but he was kinda angry. like practically shouting during if it's true instead of hopeful encouraging. also not a complaint bc i like it better than soft boi bway orpheus. really shows his character and ideals changing imo

orpheus took full advantage of his falsetto here and i adored it

"aw it's about me" in epic III i lost my mind

the full minute of applause after wait for me

finally, going hoarse cheering for everyone at curtain call and the beautiful moment of stillness during we raise our cups

all in all 10000/10 experience i loved every second of it. there's definitely much more i could say but i have forgor

[crowsghosts]

I swear Hadestown lives absolutely rent-free in my head. The hyperfixation on the show has been going over two years strong and dear lord how do I start.

I first heard of Hadestown when I listened to the Cathedral edit of NYTW Epic III by druid-for-hire on YouTube. I don’t remember when I first ran into it, but the hyperfixation didn’t officially start until June or July of 2021. Regardless, when I did find out about the show’s plot, I went

“Oh. Oh no.”

I already knew of the Orpheus and Eurydice myth thanks to the power of a TedEd video. I knew Orpheus would turn around. But maybe he didn’t in this adaptation-

And he did. Damnit, Orpheus, you had one job.

As to why I got so attached to the show/it becoming one of my hyperfixations? I don’t know. Maybe it’s because the respective myths of Orpheus and Eurydice and Hades and Persephone stand as my favourites out of the Greek mythos. Maybe it’s because I relate to Orpheus in plenty of ways and Hades to a small degree. Maybe it’s the music genres, jazz and American blues respectively, that I’ve always enjoyed since I was a kid. Maybe it’s all of those factors, who knows? Hell, the hyperfixation caused me to dive deeper into the Greek mythology rabbit hole, see the show on tour and on broadway, want to learn the instruments used in the show, and incorporate some aspects of the show and the myth it’s based off of into my minecraft character.

I remember, during intermission at the tour show, I overheard someone talking to their friend something along the lines of…

“So, you think this will end happy? Well…”

You should’ve seen my face when I overheard that.

And when Orpheus turned around when I saw it on broadway last month, I remember hearing a very distinct “noooooo” in the audience. It always interested me how people react going into the show practically blind. No knowledge of the Orpheus and Eurydice myth. No knowledge of the ending. The hope that the pair will make it, only to be utterly shattered when the bard, doubt taken over, turns around and helplessly watch his muse descend back into the Underworld. Back to Hadestown.

I remember balling my eyes out when I first heard Epic III and nearly cried hearing it live. Twice. I know Orpheus turns around in the end, but at the same time, denial remains a river in Egypt until I see the show or listen to the soundtrack again.

Again.

And Again.

But, as Hermes says, it’s an old song, and we’re going to sing it again and again.

[emotionalsupportaudino]

I literally cannot stop thinking about the current tour of Hadestown and how, despite seeing it three times (once totally legally before, and the first touring cast) and having listened to the recording probably hundreds by now, this is the first time I've ever been sold on Hades and Persephone.

There are moments where I just am in the middle of making my coffee or doing homework where I stop and relive Epic III in my head, it's going to live there rent free for the rest of eternity.

Now this Hades was phenomenal just to start with. Absolutely banger. Persephone was a shift where I realized how hard she went from slurring her words to complete clarity. In act 2, there were several scenes where she wasn't doing anything where i couldn't keep my eyes off her (like flowers, because I was realizing that she was sleeping with the workers. I never noticed that before because my eyes were so firmly on Eurydice). But Hades was playing the big booming villain and he was doing it well and that was all I wanted.

And then Epic III. For the first time, as I watched, I saw him physically trying to escape the emotions that Orpheus was actively trying to put him through, and for the first time as everything crescendos I heard him scream "no" in this furious, desperate voice. I lost it.

Like imagine you're Hades, you're doing your job, this fucking twink comes up to you and starts singing a song at you that yOU WROTE like he wrote it, saying how alike you are, and he let his girlfriend get so screwed over she left him for work. And like your wife is siding with this guy over you. And then everyone's like YEAH LISTEN TO THE TWINK, BOSS. I too would be pretty mad. Orpheus is a fuck up.

Hades was getting some depth I was sorely missing in other portrayals just from every choice the actor was making.

And then "His Kiss, the Riot."

The reading of those lines, especially "Beautiful. Poisonous." fucking killed me. I saw a man trying to do his best, trying to undo his mistakes, trying to understand how to untie the knot he wove. I watched a man genuinely believe that the thing he was doing could be the right thing, not understanding why it wasn't, genuinely believing he was doing what he could to end the suffering of people, making sure they were warm and fed and just not getting it.

And I understood for the first time "Beautiful, poisonous" actually meant "optimism, pragmatism." What Orpheus is fighting for is beautiful. For love and hope and the power to make your own future together, come what may. Diving into uncertainty, together. But it's poisonous. It's going into a world where there's no certainty. There's not enough to go around, not only because of Persephone, but because the rest of the gods seem to have abandoned this world. To a world where Hermes is the only god around and he's more than willing to let people fuck you over rather than step in. Where you're at the whims of the wind and fate. You may have a beautiful future, but if you misstep, that future is over in an instant.

Anyway I got his signature and I actually told him that I really loved that line read and he said that he said poisonous so quietly it wasn't getting picked up well by the mic so he put it really close to his face so that scream in Epic III blew out the crew's ears it was so loud but like. It was so good. Sorry crew, it was worth it for that read.

Also Orpheus is a little bitch, what was he gonna do if he turned around and she wasn't there??? What was it gonna change, Orpheus??? You had two options, one was a guaranteed bad outcome (she isn't there and you have to go back, she is there and she gets stolen back) and one that had a 50/50 outcome, (you make it to the end, she's not there, you gotta go back again, she IS there and we all go home happy because we don't watch you betray her AGAIN). I will take the 50% chance over the 0% chance ANY day.

[drcrushers]

I saw the Los Angeles tour of Hadestown recently and when Hades tells Orpheus to "Go on" during "Epic III", he said, "Go on, babe" at this performance and I don't know what to do with that but it's gonna live in my brain for a while and I knew I needed to tell you about it

oh my god??? what an absolute iconic thing to say. i love matthew patrick quinn as hades so much (i'm assuming that's who was on for your tour!). this is gonna live in my brain forever. i don't know where because i don't know what to do with it, but it's gonna be there. i'm gonna mentally add it in every time i listen to the cast album.

[lolbeech]

Emily Windsnap characters’ favorite Broadway songs

Emily - Where Do You Belong? (Mean Girls) - Emily struggled finding where she fit in (multiple times) because of being both mermaid and human, and she had friends (I.e. Aaron and Shona) like Damian and Janis

Shona - Popular (Wicked) / Omigod You Guys (Legally Blonde) / She’s In Love (The Little Mermaid) - Shona is popular in school and has a personality very similar to Glinda. Same with Elle Woods. She’s In Love has a girly mermaidy sound to it and represents Shona’s love of romance

Aaron - Home (Beetlejuice) - Aaron has similar pain to Lydia because he also lost a parent. This song also represents how he finds a new home at Forgotten Island

Mandy - What Is This Feeling? (Wicked) - Emily and Mandy had a lot of conflict over the series but end up besties like Elphaba and Glinda

Mary Penelope - I Remember…/Stranger Than You Dreamt It (Phantom) - Represents Mary losing her memory and then regaining it, and the song also talks about a boat and a man lol

Jake - Epic III (Hadestown) - Jake and his family remind Neptune of love and cause him to change, just like Orpheus did with Hades. Also Jake loves poetry 📖

Millie - No Reason (Beetlejuice) - Millie is exactly like Delia and I could easily see her singing this to Emily

Mr. Beeston - A Cautionary Tale (Mean Girls) - Describes a tale of destruction and betrayal, just like what Beeston did to the Windsnap family

Neptune - Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again / The World Above (Reprise) (The Little Mermaid) - WYWSHA represents Neptune’s love for Aurora and how much pain he was in when she died/and even later on in current day. The World Above is kinda self explanatory lol

Aurora - The One You’ve Been Waiting For (Six) / Heart of Stone (Six) - Aurora is the more famous and mysterious wife of Neptune just like Anne Boleyn is to Henry VIII (Shona learned about her in school and Aurora’s story has many secrets that are uncovered throughout the series). Just like in Six, Neptune is said to have multiple wives, but I honestly don’t believe that to be canon or he married mermaids just for temporary companionship. But just like Jane Seymour (Heart of Stone) Aurora is said to have been Neptune’s favorite and also died early in their marriage.

Njord - I Want The Good Times Back (The Little Mermaid) - Njord wants to overthrow Neptune just like Ursula wanted to overthrow Triton. He also had a past as royalty, as he was Neptune’s brother and shared the throne with him for a time

Archie - Sweet Child (The Little Mermaid) - Archie manipulated Emily and Aaron into helping him and Njord carry out their plans, just like Flotsam and Jetsam manipulated Ariel into helping Ursula

Seth - Something Bad (Wicked) - This song represents how Seth tells Emily and Shona about Njord and his history with Neptune

Jeras - Wonderful (Wicked) - Jeras wanted power and was offered it by Terra, like Elphaba was by the Wizard. The deal in both instances didn’t pan out

Fortuna - Close the Door (Anastasia) - This song represent’s Fortuna’s pain from losing Aurora, similar to the dowager and Anastasia

Terra - When You’re Good To Mama (Chicago) - This song represents Terra’s personality and how she helped Jeras when she saw power for herself, but she cursed him when he made a mistake

Jakob - Easy Street (Annie) - Jakob schemes like Rooster and Ms. Hannigan to get money/treasure

Michele - Get Down (Six) - Michele likes nice things (like things mentioned in the song) and has a certain level of power being the pirate king’s wife

Sam - For Good (Wicked) - Sam and Emily changed each other for the better over their adventure and allowed each other to gain confidence and courage

Noah - You’ll Be Back (Hamilton) - Noah believes that his crew will return to him after they side with Sam and he has the same possessiveness and cruelty as King George III

[amatalefay]

Epic III and Poetry

A popular complaint I’ve seen  about the Epic III Broadway changes is that the older version is “more poetic.” As a poet, that bothers me because the Broadway version is poetic, too, just less attention-drawing to its own language. And thinking about what the differences actually are, I realized something:

Concept Album/NYTW Epic III is an epic poem. Broadway Epic III isn’t —it’s a lyric poem. Not just in the sense that it’s lyrics to a song, but as a different genre entirely. And they are both excellent examples of their respective genres.

So, what’s the difference between epic and lyric poetry?

Epic poetry is a long narrative in verse that deals with gods and heroes, often making use of elaborate extended metaphors and evocative epithets to describe characters and events from an observer’s perspective. Ancient Greek examples include the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Lyric poetry is a) shorter, b) focuses on the poet’s own experience and state of mind rather than a narrative, and c) uses personal pronouns and emotional, relational language rather than descriptive epithets. The most famous Ancient Greek example of a lyric poet is Sappho.

Looking at the text of each version of Epic III, we can see these different techniques and priorities in play:

Orpheus uses epithets liberally in all the Epics, NYTW and Broadway, usually to describe Hades, but not always. Epic II is a masterclass in epithets:

King of diamonds, king of spades / Hades was king of a kingdom of dirt / Miners of mines, diggers of graves (Concept/NYTW)

King of silver, king of gold / And everything glittering under the ground / Hades is king of oil and coal / and the riches that flow where those rivers are found (Broadway)

King of mortar, king of bricks / The River Styx is a river of stones (Both)

Concept/NYTW’s Epic III opens with three stanzas of epithet-heavy language (king of iron, king of steel and Hades is king of the scythe and the sword) and uses them to build up an extended metaphor contrasting king and man, hard and soft, hammer and nail. It then goes on to describe in exquisite detail the scene of Hades first seeing and falling in love with Persephone:

But even that hardest of hearts unhardened Suddenly when he saw her there Persephone, in her mother’s garden The sun on her shoulders, the wind in her hair

The smell of the flowers she held in her hand And the pollen that fell from her fingertips And suddenly Hades was only a man With the taste of nectar on his lips

I, too, wish these stanzas had been kept—they’re absolutely beautiful. They are also wholly descriptive and predominantly physical. Hades’ emotions are abstracted and distanced from the scene. Persephone has no interiority whatsoever. It is a sonorous, metaphor-rich, but acutely third-person account of what happened.

This distance makes sense given Orpheus’ role in the NYTW production. He is an observer, a witness, an activist. He is deeply attuned to the injustices of what is happening around him and uses his poetry to share his observations of those injustices with the world. What he lacks is attunement to the emotional needs of other people, especially Eurydice. The triumph of his Epic is piercing commentary, making Hades see the consequences of his actions and just how different he has become from the man who first fell in love with Persephone.

Broadway’s version keeps the epithets limited to the first few lines (king of shadows, king of shades / Hades was king of the underworld). Orpheus doesn’t linger on physical description. The point is not to retell the story, but rather, to reframe it. Because Orpheus drops a bomb at the end of this section. He abandons the third person and introduces an “I”:

I know how it was because he was like me / A man in love with a woman

(Side note: The language in the first section of Broadway Epic III is very plain, but the poetry is still there! I partially blame Patrick Page—not in a bad way!—for interjecting in the middle of the first stanza, because when you put the text in quatrains, some gorgeous slant rhymes and vowel resonance shows up:

King of shadows, king of shades Hades was king of the underworld But he fell in love with a beautiful lady who walked up above in her mother’s green field

He fell in love with Persephone who was gathering flowers in the light of the sun and I know how it was because he was like me A man in love with a woman

I’ll admit some of the lines in isolation are not very good. I don’t like a man in love with a woman, but I’d say it has roughly the same quality as all that he loves is a woman / a woman is all that he loves, and the benefit of only taking up one line instead of two.)

Then come the la la la las, much earlier in Broadway than in NYTW because they have a new significance that completely changes the context of Orpheus’ song. Orpheus asserts “he was like me” and then proceeds to vocalize the exact feeling that Hades had without words. He then addresses Hades directly, in second person—something NYTW only does in the very last stanza—using the language of his own declaration of love. This is important because it shows that Orpheus isn’t just putting himself in Hades’ shoes—he’s putting Hades in his own. The moment of connection, of empathy goes both ways.

And the language of that love? It’s just as rich as the Persephone in her mother’s garden stanza, but the focus is not on exterior detail, but interior:

You didn’t know how and you didn’t know why but you knew that you wanted to take her home You saw her alone there against the sky It was like she was someone you’d always known

And the slant rhymes? The assonance and consonance? *chef’s kiss*

It was like you were holding the world when you held her Like yours were the arms that the whole world was in And there were no words for the way that you felt So you opened your mouth and you started to sing

Orpheus‘ thesis (”he was like me”) adds new context to the last section of the song, whose words are almost identical to the NYTW version. When Broadway Orpheus sings what has become of the heart of that man, he’s talking about himself as well. What would become of his own heart if he were to become like Hades? His moment of insight into Hades fears and weaknesses becomes a confession of his own insecurities:

See how he labors beneath that load afraid to look up and afraid to let go

and

He’s grown so afraid that he’ll lose what he owns But what he doesn’t know is that what he’s defending is already gone

There’s a prescience to these lyrics when applied to Orpheus. Because this is a predestined tragedy, Orpheus has already lost Eurydice. And while walking out of Hadestown, his greatest fear is that Eurydice won’t be following him—that he’ll lose what he owns. And there’s another parallel: Hades is afraid to look up, while Orpheus is afraid to look back and afraid to keep going.

The final stanza differs only slightly between the two songs:

Where is the man with his hat in his hands Who stands in the garden with nothing to lose? (NYTW)

Where is the man with his arms outstretched To the woman he loves, with nothing to lose? (Broadway)

Again, the NYTW lyrics are descriptive and external, while the Broadway lyrics are emotional and relational. Epic poetry and lyric poetry.

And, while the songs are called “epics,” as befits the son of Calliope, the Muse of Epic Poetry, the lyric form has an Orpheus connection as well: traditionally, lyric poems were sung to the accompaniment of a lyre.

In conclusion, both Epic IIIs are valid. Neither one is more poetic than the other. They’re just different kinds of poetry.

[irreplaceable-ecstasyy]

I'm going insane with these details in Hadestown. Here's one that I saw like just now. In Epic III, during the climactic part when the 'lalalas' are sung acapella, the only person who sings the main melody with Orpheus is Persephone. AND IT MADE MY HEART SCREECH!!! (Bear with me, I've only just noticed this and I want to scream about it)

Other than Hades, Persephone is the only person who knows this song :,,). And it just means so much because Hades sang the song of love to her when they met and now SHE'S SINGING IT TO HIM to express that she still LOVES HIM (well, because we've seen that words don't seem to be their best means of communication. music was how their love bloomed and now it's bringing it back into tune.) It's sort of like remembering the song you first danced to with your partner. And the fact that Persephone still remembers the melody and sings it to him.

Also the fact that she literally never takes her eyes off of him throughout the song which really just shows that she's singing this to him. She sees no one else around her, just Hades.

THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU

[alyona11]

I feel like people have their right to dislike Hades for being a nasty underground mole but honestly, I can no longer see how people be like "he had no reason not to let Orpehdice go without condition and he did it just cos" when there are LITERALLY two songs explaining his motivation directly.

World to the Wise states that he's "caught between a rock and a hard place" where the two decisions he can make put him in equally vulnerable position one way or another. Not letting Orpheus go will prove that he's a heartless man and that he didn't learn his lesson and probably will follow up with him "loosing" his wife once again. And letting Orpheus go will put him in a politically vulnerable position of being a spineless king, if Orpheus could go, then the workers may follow. Not mentionning the fact that you can see workers go as just a metaphore or as actual dead forced to workin in the mines, so if one case you get a riot (good luck, Hades) and from the other you get zombie appocalypse.

The same idea is repeated in His Kiss, The Riot, but from a more personal point of view. Not fully giving in to one of the two options is Hades' way to resolve this inner conflict and both keep himself and his power relatively safe and trying to fix his mistake by giving Orpheus a chance. If you look at this situation from Hades' perspective (which His Kiss, The Riot allows you to do) you see that he has no other option. You could say "he could have just let them go unconditionally", but let's be real it would make Hadestown one of these "magic of love fixed all the problems" kinda show, which... isn't the point. I feel like the motive of hope and willingness to change is a big thing in Hadestown, so the fact that Hades is willing to risk his authority in order to give the lovers a chance as a result Orpheus' song, is a proof of his character development. Orpheus gives him a chance to fix his relationship (please note that Epic III isn't a magical cure for H/P relationship, because I feel like there's a certain misunderstanding here) and Hades gives him a chance as well. Hades from act 1 would have never even considered to "show them a crack" knowing it'll follow up by them "tearing the wall", but he knows that he has to let them go whether or not you consider his motivation absolutely personal "this is something my wife expects me to do to proove that I have a heart" or "this is the right thing to do considering all the messed up stuff I did" or both.

Orpheus isn't doomed to fail by Hades (comparing to NYTW where Hades states that this condition is a right way to trick Orpheus) in Broadway version, the whole thing is a test and not a trick. I'd even say that Orpheus fulfilling this test brings Hades more pros than cons, judging by how heavily he self-projects into this situation in HKTR, but it's more of my reading of the character than facts [tm], so we can drop it there.

Finally, yes, surely, the whole choice "let go or not let go" dilemma and consequences that follow up with each option are the result of Hades' own hands, he put himself in the situation where he can't show full mercy to Orpheus. But I feel like the condition isn't in any way his wish to make Orpheus fail per se. I think by giving him this opportunity, Hades really assumes he's giving him a fair 50/50 chance. Which could be true if Orpheus would be the same person who we saw in act 1, the tragedy is that he isn't the same person we saw before.

[queenlucythevaliant]

PLEASE get started on Hadestown!

Alright, you asked for it 😊

So, I’m not sure how much you know about the show’s history, but Hadestown was in development for ages. I find it fascinating to contrast the different theses (as it were) of the original concept album (kinda), NY Theatre Workshop version, and the final Broadway version. I think it’s the best way to understand any one of them.

The original concept album was something of a commentary on greed, poverty, and economic desperation through the lens of myth. It’s a lot looser than the conceptualizations of the show that were actually meant for theatre.

The NY Theatre Workshop version’s thesis is something to the effect of We need to try (to keep our promises, to make the world better), even though it’s likely futile.

The Broadway version’s is something like We tell sad stories, even though their endings are fixed, because in the telling of them there’s hope along the way

I find both theatre versions very compelling in somewhat different ways because of the fact that they have these different theses. I think the contrast is most explicit in “Road to Hell II”/”Road to Hell (Reprise),” both of which try to interpret the meaning of the show that’s just been performed for the audience.

In the NY Theatre Workshop version, we get:

Everybody looked and everybody saw/ That spring had come again/ With a love song/ With a tale of a love that never dies/ With a love song/ For anyone who tries

Whereas in the Broadway version we get:

[…] It's a love song/ It's a tale of a love from long ago/ It's a sad song/ We keep singing even so/ It's an old song/ It's an old tale from way back when/ And we're gonna sing it again and again/ We're gonna sing it again

(Emphases mine)

It’s worth noting a few things here: 1) The Theatre Workshop’s Hermes (Matthew Saldivar) performs the role with a lot more warmth and compassion for the characters than Andre de Shields does in the Broadway version. Broadway’s Hermes is much more of an observer/narrator, more detached from the events themselves. This is particularly clear in the closing number. 2) The Broadway version of the show has the events/dialogue of “Any Way the Wind Blows” repeating under the lines about how “[Orpheus] could make you see how the world could be in spite of the way that it is.” The Theatre Workshop version doesn’t do that; it emphasizes these lines.

Both versions of the show end with a feeling of optimistic futility, but the Theatre Workshop version’s perspective on this idea has to do with trying, just trying, and then maybe there’s a kind of victory in the attempt. The Broadway version isn’t concerned with victory at all. The hope is found in the fact that the story repeats, and that the hopeful parts at the beginning and the middle are worth repeating, in spite of the fact that tragedy is inevitable.

I find both of these themes incredibly, incredibly compelling. Both have a lot to do with why I love a good tragedy in the first place.

The Theatre workshop version also places a great deal more emphasis on broken promises. In “Chant II,” Persephone is given a verse where she basically tells Euridice, “Don’t trust men. They break their promises.” In Hades’s second verse, he makes a similar complaint about Persephone: “One day she's hot, the next she's cold/ Women are so seasonal/ Women leave again and again.”

Then, in “Epic III,” Orpheus confronts this issue directly. Hades has broken his promises of love to Persephone. He doesn't treat her with the love that he promised her as a young man. This is the problem that he needs to fix.

The dialogue between Hades and Persephone in “Wait for Me II” gets a lot more emphasis in the Theatre Workshop version. It’s in the Broadway version, but there’s a lot of other stuff going on around it. In the Theatre Workshop version, they get to have their conversation uninterrupted. Hades let Orpheus and Euridice try. He and Persephone are going to try again next spring. Who knows if they’ll succeed, but they’ve made a promise.

Backing up a bit, the Orpheus and Euridice characters also have an emphasis on broken promises and trying again in the Theatre Workshop production. It’s crystal clear in the first half of “Promises,” which gets cut in the Broadway version of the song:

[Euridice: ]Promises you made to me/ You said the rivers and the trees/ Would fill our pockets and our plates/ Promises you made/ You said the birds would blanket us/ You said the world was generous/ And wouldn't turn its back on us

The river froze, the trees were bare/ And all the birds, they disappeared/ So me too, I flew away/ From promises you made

[Orpheus:] Promises you made to me/ You said that you would stay with me/ Whatever weather came our way/ Promises you made/ That we would walk, side by side/ Through all the seasons of our lives/ 'Neath any sky, down any road/ Any way the wind blows

Both of them tried. They failed. Now, they reaffirm their love and make new promises as they prepare to try again.

They fail. Does it really matter? the show asks. See how hard they tried! See how noble that effort is! This is a story for anyone who tries, even if they fail; especially if they fail. Try to keep your promises. Try to make the world better, in spite of the way that it is.

The Broadway version, as I said, puts its attention elsewhere. It's about the hope that can be found in telling sad stories over and over.

Accordingly, there's a lot more emphasis placed on the plight of the workers in Hadestown. "Chant (Reprise)" is as much about the workers as it is about Hades and Orpheus.

Why do we turn away instead of standing with him?/ Oh, keep your head-/ Why are we digging our own graves for a living?/ Oh, keep your head-/ If we're free/ Tell me why/ We can't even stand upright?/ If we're free/ Tell me when/ We can stand with our fellow man

And then, of course, there's a frantic hope in the worker's chorus during "Wait for Me (Reprise)," which is entirely new to the Broadway version. It's not just about Orpheus and Euridice trying to escape; it's about "if they can do it, so can we." It's the workers' "show the way" refrain that overshadows the Hades/Persephone dialogue. The hope of the workers is a tangible force in the Broadway show, where it was all but absent in the Theatre Workshop version.

The Broadway version also draws really clear parallels between Hades's relationship with Persephone and Orpheus's with Euridice. In the Workshop version, you get an older couple trying to advise a younger couple. In the Broadway version, there are specific bits of imagery associated with both couples, showing how history repeats. Orpheus draws this parallel explicitly in "Epic III." "I know how it was because he was like me," he sings.

Both Hades and Orpheus both "wanted to take her home"; both "saw her alone against the sky and it was like she was someone [they'd] always known."

It's also a lot clearer that the la la la la... melody is Hades's song to Persephone and that Orpheus is rediscovering it throughout the show, motivated in large part by his own love for Euridice.

These explicit parallels add to the cyclical feeling of the Broadway show. Hades and Persephone, Orpheus and Euridice, again and again. It takes on a universal feeling, applicable to all lovers.

They were in love long ago and they lost each other. Another couple was in love long ago and they lost each other. Every time we tell the story, we remember their love, their hope, the hopes of those around them, and it makes the tragic ending worth it. So we keep singing, for all the tragic lovers in the world, and for all those who had hope and then lost it. To keep the hope alive, in a sense.

You leave both versions of the Hadestown production feeling very differently. The Theatre Workshop version makes you want to keep your promises, to try in the face of futility. The Broadway version makes you want to remember and to keep hope alive. They're very different kinds of bittersweet.

Yet they are both the same story; both the kind of tragedy that I love most. In order for a tragedy to be worth telling, it cannot be utterly bleak. There must be a striving, for something good, true, or beautiful. There must be hope, even if only momentary. The ending can be as devastating as you like-- everyone dead, dreams shattered, nothing accomplished. Yet tragedy sprinkled with striving and with hope is probably my favorite literary genre in the world.

I think both versions of Hadestown have some of both; I don't want to present a false dichotomy here. But the Theatre Workshop Hadestown leans into the striving while the Broadway production leans into the hope. I find both of them heartrendingly beautiful.

[hanschenapologist]

i saw hadestown last night! heres some fun things:

Under a readmore because its lonnggg

the lady who announced that the show would start in 5 minutes received a standing ovation that lasted at least a full minute. lights still on, just someone that works at the walter kerr.

when the show actually started, when hermes went "aight" there was another standing ovation, this time lasting at least a few minutes

after standing once again for the end of road to hell, there were. no sounds. full attention to the show (becides cheering when youre supposed to be cheering and laughing and stuff like that but like. no candy wrappers, no phones, not even a random cough during a quiet moment. NOT. A. SINGLE. COUGH.)

during living it up on top, while orpheus was doing his little speech, the line "to the world we dream about" was said facing everyone on stage, but then everybody turned around, still raising their cups, to face the audience. full 4th wall break, full acknowledging the audience. and then he went "and. the one we live in now" i believe this received another standing ovation, but i was too busy trying not to cry to remember properly.

tom hewitt was an amazing hades

when the chips are down hurt like it has never hurt before

the wait for me ovation probably lasted over 5 minutes

why do we build the wall was also incredible

during intermission, people all around me were standing up to stretch their legs, as if we didnt give every other song an ovation

like, i wore my spinner ring, and i hurt my other hand clapping for so long and so often

our lady of the underground was SO fun

audience was so excited i could barely hear which band member we were clapping for, which i kinda love

come home with me (reprise) really hit different

also the way he said "no, i walked. a long way." made me feel emotions

nothing changes also hit different

if its true also. hit different

EPIC III WAS A RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE

the "they danced..." part of it was also a religious experience

promises was absolutely adorable im in love with how Reeve plays Orpheus

wait for me reprise was deafening and i do not care. whether that be from the audience or the actual show, you decide

during doubt comes in, everything was pitch black except for orpheus and occasionally the fates' lanterns (and eurydice when she sang)

you could hear a pin drop when he looked back, and for the remaining heaviness after that

road to hell reprise also received a 5+ minute ovation (obviously)

everyone on stage got bouquets of carnations

almost cried again when Rachel Chavkin and Anaïs Mitchell were talking (im sure that part is on youtube somewhere by now, as multiple people were filming it, and if its not itll be up soon)

we raise our cups was the nail in the coffin and i started crying

afterwards, because there was no stage door, the whole portion of the road in front of the theater was closed, and the cast and band got on the balcony and sang and played. we all at some point sang lean on me

im pretty sure Reeve Carney was crying the entire time

but so was i.....so was i...

[trickfootpike]

OKAYOKAYOKAY now that i've had a few nights to Ruminate here are way too many thoughts from 9/16's show -- fair warning that they aren't *super* coherent as a lot of this i just tried to loosely organize from dms i threw at folks night-of, but it is most of what i remember sticking out to me!

GENERAL THOUGHTS --

last saw the show in august of 2019 - back then i saw it up in the mezzanine, this time i was 7 rows back dead center in the middle of the orchestra. watching the show from the mezzanine feels like a god's eye view of the show while sitting up close in the orchestra is much more like being in the world of men, and how it hits in hadestown particularly is just nuts bc you really do feel like you're on the factory floor.

back in the London production i remember eva playing eurydice with more youth and hope to her, and when the show came to Broadway eurydice hardened. in a world with a pandemic eva seems to have actually shifted this back! Eurydice is still holding tightly onto Orpheus Knowing that the world is unlikely to be kind enough to let them have each other for long but she starts off less faithless than she used to, I suppose I would describe it? she's definitely played more open with others from the beginning rather than having it be something she has to really work towards!

WAIT FOR ME IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT FEELING FROM THE ORCHESTRA THAN THE MEZZANINE AND NOT JUST THE LAMPS. the lamps really only swing out to over the first 2 rows, speaking very generously, anyway. what i remember being most impactful from last time was how the whole theater rumbled as the walls of the set split to reveal hadestown. what i couldn't see and afaik no boot's been able to pick up is the the set ALSO SPLITS AND STRETCHES OPEN AT THE TOP. that awning that covers the balcony lifts and the wall of hadestown is revealed to stretch floor to ceiling and it is just so much, so fucking much oh my god i could not stop hysterically blubbering to myself watching hadestown stretch open like it is absolutely here to devour you whole. it makes you feel the immensity of The Wall. I've linked ig videos of the set pre act 1 and post intermission to give like the best perspective on it i can and tried to film them so they were zoomed as closely as to what my eyes were seeing as I could, but here are also some pictures!

PRE ACT ONE

INTERMISSION

after our lady of the underground when eurydice comes back from hades' office and Persephone is finishing with her show, me being closer this time i was actually able to see amber's face during way down hadestown ii and flowers. and how she portrays seph's feelings re eurydice, it's like : genuine concern and watching over her when she first starts on the line, Quiet Seething and Jealous Rage as the fates' tattle "Hades put his hands on ya" that sticks for a While including the first half of flowers, but as soon as eurydice remembers the meadow her and Orpheus visited her heart just b r e a k s and you can see her wiping away tears. seph's just so caught in her own feelings of helplessness in hadestown. when hades tells her to stay out of him dealing with Orpheus all the fight just deflates out of her and the direct accusing look Orpheus gives her at the end of if it's true mixed with seeing his effect on the workers makes her physically rear back like she's gotten the fight slapped back into her

even with this audience who almost for sure has all seen ht before, there was still the loudest heartbroken gasp when orpheus turned. i know everyone calls this out but it still hit me hard that with a greater percentage of previous viewers in the audience it still hit us all like a fucking brick

and ofc. road to hell ii. it's a millions times more impactful than it already was what with the pandemic, making it through hard times and how they could be hard again but making the best of them even if it doesn't turn out well this time either. i was crying so hard last time but this time i was crying harder but also feeling like a huge weight was being like, very softly cradled in my chest to take some of the burden away

TOM'S HADES/HADES AND PERSEPHONE SPECIFIC THOUGHTS --

Tom's Hades whole tl;dr could be that Hades is a Performance. all those descriptions of him beign "jazzy" and "egodriven" are correct, but there is also this massive vibe he gives off that all his showmanship is there as a cover up for the very pessimistic man at the core of him. when him and persephone are getting along the jazziness is there for genuine playfulness with her, but apart from seph it is a purposeful exaggeration on hades' part to get Whatever it is that he wants. he is playing up aggression as king (see papers) and what he thinks as being suave (see hey little songbird) to maintain his throne and his marriage, and Epic III is the Destruction of that performance. Tom's Hades at the end of Epic III isn't trying to sell anyone anything, you just get to see the suddenly very scared and unsure heart of the man behind the performance of foreman and king. And oh boy is Tom's Hades at his heart unsure. He is so fucking pessimistic; back in Act 1 when Orpheus starts to sing Epic I he turns from Persephone even before she gets reminded of the world above and starts longing for it, because he already expects to see it coming and he doesn't turn back to her Ever Again, literally until he comes to get her in Way Down Hadestown. Not even when she gives him a kiss on the cheek goodbye. His Kiss, The Riot is him trying to figure out how the hell he's gonna be able to rebuild his performance after his whole kingdom saw through it, but he also ends it being so very certain that the deal he figures out for Orpheus Will end with Orpheus failing somehow. There is no doubt in this very pessimistic Hades that doubt will come in, whereas Patrick used the end of His Kiss The Riot almost like he was desperately trying to justify that his doubt came to him only in Persephone's absence

road to hell i: tom's hades loves cheering on the band so much he is Part Of The Problem that Hermes has to get to chill out and it makes so much sense for this jazzy dramatic motherfucker

balcony time (road to hell i until livin' it up on top): when they were upstairs playing dominoes they kept laying their tiles with these overexaggerated movements.. Like when they actually getting along they are so damn flirty and trying so hard to make each other smile and laugh and it is TOO CUTE

way down hadestown: Once Again "I missed ya" gives me no rest, mostly because Tom delivered it with this super coy and cocky grin and Amber immediately smiled back at him like Persephone couldn't help herself

chant i: is spent with him looking up proud into his creation while persephone is looking down with heartbreak and disgust seeing the workers as people in suffering and the ugliness of hadestown. as the song goes on he gets increasingly frustrated like a child who's super proud of the drawing he brought home from school that Persephone has nothing but terrible things to say about. when eurydice starts singing about her suffering seph throws out her arm and points to her like "see! See what you're doing!!" while hades is more in himself processing his disappointment, frustration, heartbreak, but over the next minute you start to see him Formulating A Plan as he watches eurydice. but he doesn't look entirely sold on going through with it until seph throws out her last verse in disgust. it was absolutely the straw that broke the camel's back.

hey little songbird: THO IT SOUNDS SO SEDUCTIVE ON AUDIO. OML DOES IT LEAN INTO EURYDICE'S "STRANGE MAN" DESCRIPTOR. HADES IS LIKE THE CREEPY SALESMAN ON THE CORNER WITH WATCHES AND A TRENCHCOAT. BUT HE'S SELLING HIS SHIT WELL, HE'S JUST ALSO A WEIRDO

Why We Build The Wall/"Behind Closed Doors": That followup on hades' threat when eurydice arrives in hadestown. as hades goes to the stairs he like not whacks, but definitely nudges seph's arm harder than Patrick does to get her attention. when he did she Startled and laid her hand over her arm where he'd tapped her like she was overwhelmed by just that touch........ but then she turns around and watches him take Eurydice up and when he opens his coat and she Realizes you see her whole body go slack. once eurydice goes past the office doors hades turns and lingers staring pointedly down at seph, for *seconds* whereas with patrick i remember it being more of a pointed glance. it drills home that hades is doing this specifically to spite seph and he wants her to know it. and you can see amber discreetly wipe her face before she turns back to "does anybody want a DRINK." there's less direct seduction between hades and eurydice but more explicit threat between hades and seph about eurydice

papers: actually isn't too much Bastärde as it is his Performance. HOWEVER, the way he directs the workers to beat Orpheus is chilling. Like patrick he hangs around, but he's watching until the last 10 seconds so it's way longer. And he makes like the smallest gestures with his hand to direct the workers to the different stages of beating Orpheus, fuck it was twisted

how long: how long actually starts with seph and hades seemingly coming to each other on a similar page - hades came out pensively fiddling with his wedding ring and Amber delivered "I know" like seph was already past the eurydice situation. this also could have been a product of time and seeing how actually little he did "seducing" eurydice lmao

chant ii: very much Hades Sees Orpheus As A Threat™️ (more on this further below) , also dare i say it but tom kills I CONDUCT THE ELECTRIC CITY

epic iii: oh man oh man. he looks so untouched until Orpheus starts the lalas and he goes from completely passive unimpressed face to like. his body unfolds on his stool and his hands go slack and he looked between Orpheus and Persephone when he asked where Orpheus had gotten his melody. he asked it a lot softer than I expected him too as well. a big part of the audience actually laughed when Hades sang his lala because Tom cracks his voice during it but it petered off into sniffling when they realized why and then we were all just crying together as persephone placed the flower in his vest.

lovers desire: SOME VERY CUTE STUFF. hades' performance is broken but tom's hades is still a Jazzy Jazzy Man at heart and they're like 100 times more playful with each other - they're both giggling and grinning their asses off while they dance together and give each other these like nudges to the next series of steps and it was adorable and I was discretely sobbing. they both played it like they knew how to do this dance with each other better than they knew anything, the little nudges were like..... them playing inside this dance they already knew so well? Like more overexaggeration to make each other laugh and just revel in this wonderful thing they've rediscovered- specifically I remember that Amber raised her skirt soooooo high when she was doing the curtsey and Tom was like waggling his eyebrows at her and adding extra flourishes with his hands and widening his eyes super big everytime he pulled off a move (the funniest ones were when they do like the two-step where they move one after another in sequence and he's copying her moves in reverse and oml it was just adorable). When Seph had the move where she pulls their linked arms over his head to tuck him into her I remember that was the one part where he wasn't doing this goofy act but his expression straight up melted and he looked so smitten. and when it's the last bit of the dance and he spins her across the stage, seph's face breaks open with tears his expression responds with like this mix of heartbreak and "ohhhhh no baby please don't cry" as he moved across the stage to quickly take her into his arms for the dip at the end

AFTER this when orphydice has finished promises and right before Orpheus turns to ask Hades if they can go, they come out of slow dancing to the side but are still super wrapped up in each other - seph wraps herself around one of his arms and presses herself super close and Tom leaned down with this little smile like Hades was gonna try and steal a quick kiss, but then he hears/sees out of the corner of his eye/senses or something Orpheus approaching and pulls himself up and formal to be the king. When he says I don't know and seph wrenches herself away from him to the other side of the stage to firmly stand behind Orphydice he gets this look of Extreme Frustration on that she's still not standing with him and these damn kids are still more important, bc even with character growth he still is a petty selfish bitch who does not like to share lmao, he's just getting that he Has To now

wait for me ii: Hades stays onstage by the microphone stand to the left to watch Hermes deliver his judgement to orphydice/seph/the workers and watching Tom during this was a Treat. this is the first time he's seeing how orphydice and esp Orpheus function when he's not involved to terrify them. they're so sweet and so good, and they have what looks like so much unwavering faith in each other unlike him and seph, maybe they really could... so when he delivers "i let them try" that last word is stretched with so much wonder. he's getting this first glimpse into feeling how everyone else felt when orpheus sang of how the world could be that isn't just focused in about how he feels about persephone, which always drives him - now he's having to deal with the Greater Implications and orpheus' seemingly unbreakable faith in a better world rocks him to his core. that certainty that orpheus would fail gets shaken as he watches them and when Seph asks him if he thinks they'll make it, his I Don't Know is 1/2 defensive and 1/2 actual uncertainty. he still hates to be wrong but he's wondering if his beliefs about doubt will turn out differently this time. he isn't optimistic about it by any means but orpheus, eurydice, and the workers' response to them both does give him pause

meanwhile in hades and persephone's section, on a personal level they deliver their lines to each other like they're a great deal more nervous about what next fall will bring than i've seen and heard before - something I'm thinking stems from hades' worldview being so suddenly shaken and seph too being a little more vulnerable?

MISC THOUGHTS

Tom seems to be leaning into Hades not having done anything with Eurydice other than tempt her down - once she's in Hadestown even during Why We Build The Wall he drops the salesman croon entirely and when he does rarely speak to her/about her it's commanding as a king who sees her just as another object under his possession, with very little interest in her for anything at all beyond that. he was just going after the goal of making sure Seph knew he had Options whether or not he actually pursued them

tom is super dedicated to how power-hungry hades is. I remember when I saw Patrick during chant ii he was playing hades as more affected by how much seph seemed to care about the workers now and desperately trying to get her attention back (even negatively), Tom was more consumed in seeing Orpheus as a threat because of how effectively he had turned his "children" on him. He knocks Seph down in those "shackle her from wrist to wrist" less as a personal petty attack to her like Patrick does and more like to try and destabilize her as someone backing Orpheus up. Tom's Hades perceives Orpheus as a Threat no matter how much he plays up his Performance as Nonchalant Jazzy King. he really emphasizes Hades' relationship to Orpheus whereas Patrick played more into his relationship with Eurydice, which makes so much sense what with Tom's Hades being a pettier more egotistical messy bitch obsessed with his kingdom and Patrick's Hades' obsession being his wife and Hadestown being like, this side-effect of being a god that he just couldn't help, he Had to build and strive for power whereas Tom's Hades reveled in it and wanted it. Instinct versus drive I guess. one of my buds put it super well as: "Patrick!Hades sees everything as a threat to his power Tom!Hades is so certain of his power that he can afford to be somewhat nonchalant but the fact that Orpheus alone is his main genuine threat is fucking brilliant"

and ok for now, that's what I've got! if anyone wants any clarification or wants to ask details about specific moments I didn't put in here feel free to shoot me an ask!

[ladyzayinwonderland]

Hiya Zay! So I noticed you posted about a Hadestown crossover and I wanted to ask you what you love about the musical! Favorite song? Favorite quality? What about the story/songs/costumes/characters/choreography/atmosphere/etc evokes Feelings? What is/are the primary mood(s) it inspires in you? Favorite headcanon or tender moment? Favorite line/lyric? (FYI I know you're not on here regularly and I RESPECT that, so if you want to answer, feel utterly free to take your time)... ❤️ Poly

Okay this has been a long time coming (I just didn’t realize how long it would take) but I finally have an answer! Thank you for your patience, dear Poly, and thank you for the super ask! I’m always willing to gush about Hadestown and it was so fun to have the opportunity ^_^

It is, however, a very long answer... it kinda got away from me in the process, hehe.

Favorite song: I feel like it might be cliché to say Wait for Me, but… all the versions of the song are gorgeous in different ways. If I had to be more original, then I would have to say We Raise Our Cups. I tear up every time I listen to it.

Favorite Quality: In the words of Hermes, “it’s a love song.” Orpheus loves Eurydice enough to go to hell to get her. Eurydice loves Orpheus enough to follow him out, though the way is hard. Hades loves Persephone, though he doesn’t know how to show it and is afraid to lose her. Persephone loves Hades enough to keep coming back to him to “try again”. I know that some of those loves are flawed, but they’re human. The beacon of that love and what it represents is important.

Story: I adore the inevitability of Hadestown. We know from the very beginning how this is going to end and yet we still hope that maybe it might just be different this time. We can’t help but hope. I think it speaks to the quality of the musical that it can still pull you in every time. Very cathartic.

Songs: My favorite thing about the songs is having been able to witness their growth and maturity from album to album! Themes, lyrics, and melodies have so many subtle changes that only seem to ring more true with time. It’s also so cool to see how it needed 10+ years to ruminate into the musical we have now. (But this might also be subjective to me because I found out about Hadestown when there was only a concept album, then kept up with each new development until my husband and I were able to see it on Broadway just after its premier.) And I’m very excited to see how the national tour turns out!!

Costumes: I love the tattered/steampunk/industrial look of the OBC show. But I also love what I’ve seen of the off-broadway show, the whimsical costumes of Nabiyah’s Eurydice and early Persephone’s dresses and boldness of Damon’s red jacket (bring! it! back!). The costumes definitely change the vibes of the show though, which is just fascinating to me. Mostly in Eurydice’s character, so…….

Characters: Eurydice. Has. Character. She is three-dimensional, rounded out, and can stand on her own. (this was always something I wished had been different with the myth) It’s interesting to note how her character is portrayed slightly differently depending on the show though? I can’t speak so much to Nabiyah’s portrayal because I didn’t see it, but the music makes me think that she’s harsher and angrier than Eva’s softer and more hopeful version. Orpheus too experiences subtle shifts between Damon and Reeve, specifically bolder to more naïve, which… I don’t hate, but I miss Damon’s Oprheus. I also love that all the main players experience change/growth! They all have agency!

Choreography: I love the transition between carefree in the world above to stark and sharp down below. Tbh Livin’ It Up On Top is not my ~fav~ choreography-wise, however, I recognize it’s a chance for the cast to let loose and have a good time, and it’s important to show just how different things are between the two settings. But the moment we are down below? Stellar. Sharp, synchronized movements that immediately remind you of the cogs of a machine. And I do love how the movements become more human by the time we get to If It’s True and Wait for Me II.

Bonus—the lamp choreo in Wait for Me. I sobbed when I saw them swinging and being used to light an otherwise dark space, leading Orpheus deeper underground.

Atmosphere: slight steampunk vibes my beloved. The off-broadway and Canadian productions’ Tree is something I wish had stayed for the OBC production. In addition to being gorgeous, it adds an element of nature to juxtapose to Hades’ cold, harshly lit, industrial underground. The OBC loses that little bit of earth by taking place in a train station bar. That said, I do enjoy the bar setting in parallel to Persephone’s dismal speakeasy down below. The presence of the band on stage, motley but involved in the story beyond just the music.

Inspired moods: I like angst, for better or for worse. I’ve always been drawn to Orpheus and Eurydice because of how tragic it is. I think it’s very Romantic™. Therefore, any incarnation or representation of the story is automatically my jam. I like that, regardless of how many times I have listened to the album, I still hold on to the hope that it might turn out differently. Just once. That hope is something so precious, something that still deserves to be passed on even if it’s been dashed to pieces. It’s never in vain, you can always try again.

(And, this probably isn’t as relevant, but I think there’s something to be said from a Christian perspective on the show as well. Orpheus is just a man and prone to doubt, as the show illustrates. He fails. We all fail. But there is hope found in One who literally can’t fail in bringing the lost back to Him, and that is an encouraging thought.)

Headcanon: I hold to this one interpretation of the tale that Orpheus looking back was a sign of love (though I don’t discount it being an act of doubt or weakness). I like to think that he was just wanted to see her again, wanted to make sure she made it too, but he was just a fraction of a moment too soon. It almost makes her “death” more tragic.

Tender Moment: my favorite tender moments from the show are 1) when Orpheus runs to the stage through the audience to reach Eurydice again in the second act. Mostly because I didn’t expect it. I was focused on her when a white and red blur with a guitar ran down the aisle to peek his head above the edge of the stage with a joyful “come home with me?” My Heart. 2) when Orpheus finishes Epic III and Hermes says “and you know what they did? They danced.” There is a twenty second bit of acoustic guitar and violin while Hades and Persephone dance for the first time together in ages. It wasn’t a grand or sweeping moment—it was just an old man stumbling through a rusty dance with his wife, and it felt genuine.

Favorite Line/Lyric: starting off strong with the first words of the show. There’s no introduction to Hadestown, no warning it’s about to start. Just Hermes sauntering onstage, looking you straight in the eye, and saying “Alright?” Then the band starts playing and the show begins. Incredible. Unprecedented. But also I weep for all of the Epics. Such solid poetry. So soft.

So anyway, those are my thoughts! They may be a little repetitive, but hopefully I conveyed myself decently enough. Thank you again, lovely!! <3

[equalseleventhirds]

if you want to talk about hades town you can do so on this because i am very much interested in your thoughts about it!

fdsfjdskfds oh anon i am at Work and when i get out of work i will be Homework but......... listen. listen.

(ok a lot of this i’ve already rambled abt in my hadestown tag but. BUT). i got into hadestown pre-broadway, which means i listened to the original cast recording from 2017 a BUNCH. and while i adore both version, there were... changes. which i feel did orpheus a disservice, and the overarching plot a disservice, but in some ways treated eurydice better by filling her out more and making her more of a revolutionary. 

anyway, i defos don’t have time for a full song-by-song comparison, and also some of the songs available for the broadway version never made it onto the release of the 2017 version, not bcos they weren’t in the show, just bcos.... idk they weren’t released? weren’t recorded? i do not pretend to know the inner workings of the music industry.

BUT of note: the major changes to epic ii. in the original, orpheus was mocking of hades (’king of a kingdom of dirt’ yo), while in the broadway version, orpheus is just singing abt hades and persephone’s history. epic iii also removes that like, ‘a king who loves everythign like a hammer loves the nail’ and ‘he comes down heavy and hard on us’, so it’s MUCH less about the workers’ resentment of hades and just. about hades and persephone.

btw fuckin miss me with that narrative abt orpheus solving global warming by reminding the ruling class that they’re in love with each other? like, i’m sure that’s more appealing to ur standard can-afford-broadway audience, and as a LOVE story it’s cool, but. just not a good lesson actually. 

also ‘living it up on top’ completely cuts out his ‘why would a man of his own free will go to work all day in the mine and the mill’ which is, y’know, callous when considering the people (like, later, eurydice) driven to work for hades, but is TARGETED at hades, who for real does not NEED to work the way he does. miss that....

we also, throughout the broadway version, get a LOT of hermes speaking for orpheus. in the original, ‘come home with me’ is orpheus convincing eurydice, while the broadway version has hermes telling her that orpheus will make her feel alive. ‘living it up on top’ also changes from persephone speaking directly to orpheus and letting him take up the ‘bless this round’ bit, to having hermes volunteer him. blah blah ‘under my wing’ blah, but having a god (again, member of the ruling class, even if this one’s helpful) speak for him? when we have a version where he speaks for himself? come ON. i am not a fan of orpheus being made helpless! let him make his decisions! let his voice be one of persuasion even BEFORE he goes to the underworld!

(this also ties into my personal take that as a demigod, the son of a muse--and you know how those muses are--orpheus’ carelessness is what originally loses him eurydice. he does not care about eating through the winter, he’s never had to worry about that bcos hermes looks after him, while eurydice has had a harsh life and knows they DO need to worry. art is all well and good, but it is also important to care for the people in your life. it’s later, when orpheus loses eurydice and must venture into the harshness of the underworld, meets the workers/the wall and has to find SOLIDARITY with them in order to stand up to hades, that he finally recognizes the value of working with others to create a better life for all. in this essay i)

i also rly miss the original ‘promises’ bcos like, while orpheus & eurydice as always-in-love is sweet, i really enjoyed the fighty version where they are both resentful & angry abt broken promises, and both acknowledge that what they originally claimed to want from the other & give to one another was both unrealistic and not what they actually wanted, eventually coming to a conclusion that was more based on reality. like. communication resulting in a healthier relationship after dealing with unrealistic expectations.... we stan.

now that i’ve gone over how i think the original was better, i did still LIKE the broadway version, and there were some improvements! most notable, eurydice’s stronger role as like, an active revolutionary (or attempted one, anyway) rather than a more passive rescue.

i genuinely adored the change of ‘anyway the wind blows’ from an intro song by the fates to eurydice singing (with the fates backing her up/singing in her ear), bcos it sets up eurydice as an average sufferer of the world the gods made, and lets us hear it in her voice, her experience, and her opinions. she is the one to say weather ain’t the way it was before--and when we later get persephone telling us ‘some might say the weather ain’t the way it used to be’, she’s dismissing eurydice’s suffering (and the suffering of all humans), bcos she’s more concerned with her own issues with hades than with how she’s impacted the world.

(also the changes made had some Interesting Implications abt persephone’s complicity in that whole ‘keep your head low’ thing, that i think is p cool, actually? like afaik the 2017 version didn’t have ‘no spring/no fall’ going on, so the fact that the broadway one DOES and yet keeps her having spring flowers & autumn leaves only to the ppl in the underworld when she arrives.... inch resting. something something the ruling class provides ‘charity’ of resources people should already have as a reward for ‘good behavior’ something.)

eurydice at the beginning is isolated. she falls in love with orpheus and decides to stay with him, but even them being together does not mean he understands her, or values the same things she does. this is evident in both versions, but in the broadway version, when eurydice goes to the underworld, she does something interesting; she tries to introduce herself to the other workers. now, i never saw the 2017 version in full, only heard the album, but in the album she signs the papers and is rejoicing that she’s ‘free’ and has to be told that she isn’t. she doesn’t really speak to the other workers, beyond this exchange about ‘freedom’. in the broadway version, she’s dejected--she did what she had to do. she knows that’s what the other workers did. and she goes to talk to them about it, bcos in spite of where they are, she wants to create a connection with her fellow workers (building solidarity! my girl!!) (also interesting: at the start of the show. she’s alone. she’s always been alone. she sings about how people always turn on you and she’s better off alone before she meets orpheus, but even after she has to leave him, she tries to make a connection with other people. oh...... character development, we love it.) she doesn’t SUCCEED, but she TRIES. which may be important in why they choose to follow HER later.

now we come to chant (reprise), wait for me (reprise), and doubt comes in, the BEST revolutionary eurydice songs in the ENTIRE show. in the 2017 version these were mostly orpheus-focused (and altho i miss the ‘he said he’s shelter us/he said he’d harbor me’ parallels from the 2017 version of chant ii, the company singing with eurydice & orpheus about ‘if i raise my voice, if i raise my head’ fucks SO HARD). eurydice sings with the workers as they’re revolting, and when they walk out of hadestown, the workers follow her. (they don’t follow orpheus, even tho that’s who eurydice is following; ‘if she can do it so can we’. she’s one of them. she’s the one they’re following. can you BELIEVE). eurydice also gets to echo (louder, stronger, and using our instead of my) orpheus’s fantastic fucking ‘i hear the walls repeating the falling of my feet and it sounds like drumming’ bit, with the workers giving her backup. god. so fucking good.

and then, again, i never saw the 2017 version, but ‘doubt comes in’ in that one is still melancholy even on eurydice’s parts; she’s hopeful, but she’s alone, entirely relying on orpheus to lead her. i did get to see the broadway version (and bro.... the production value on that.... the LIGHTS first of all, the LIGHTING, and this song in particular? all dark when orpheus sings so you can’t see eurydice, and then cut to eurydice in lights with the workers following? MY DUDE.) and eurydice’s bits in this song are triumphant. she is sure they will get out, she is dancing and turning back to the workers as she sings she is right behind him (they sing back: we are right behind you). she is following him and sure of him, and she is with the workers and they are with her.

which is part of why ‘sing it again’ does so little for me, actually? like, orpheus had his chance, and he fucked it up, and yes it’s a beautiful story and we want to think he’d do it right, but this is nothing like the end, and singing it again leaves no way to move forward. eurydice led the workers! she gave them her name, she made them care, she was their beacon of hope and what they could become (compare to their previous beacon of hope, persephone, who shows up once a year and sells them remnants of their former lives and does not try to lead them out bcos she’s too caught up in her own anger). eurydice did not make it out with orpheus, but i HAVE to imagine that she and the workers got that taste of freedom, that taste of memory, that taste of solidarity, and would not just forget it again. it becomes more than a love story, it becomes about eurydice’s position of solidarity with the other mortals (something orpheus almost gets, but fails due to insecurity and inexperience and being the outside-savior rather than one of them). and obvs that doesn’t work with the original orpheus and eurydice myth, but listen...... let them bother hades after the end. let them fucking unionize. pls it would be so GOOD i am just! i am just!!