#buffy for some reason: spike is a changed man because of his soul

[unknownunseenunheard]

Angel and Darla when confronted with their past victims when ensouled: Oh god, what we did to you was awful

Spike when confronting a past victim when ensouled: Your mommy didn't love ya, I don't feel bad about killing her, and now I'm gonna beat you bloody and if you come near me again I'll rip your throat out <3

[youdonthavetocallmedarlinnn]

When Spike fought for his soul, it wasn't to be some hero or even to save the world. Those were by products of the actual reason he obtained his soul: Buffy.

Spike was never an apologist, and he was not gonna be the kind of person with or without a soul to go on an apology tour for anyone especially when he doesn't feel bad for what he did in the past. He was a vampire, and that was something that happened to him, and it wasn't his fault. Unlike Angel, he recognizes that, and he's skipped over the whole sitting in the dark while being boring and brooding crap.

He truly hurt Buffy and tried to do something deemed unforgivable, but he is forgiven because he stepped up and took responsibility for it. His only motive for receiving his soul was Buffy, to be exclusively HER champion and to be a better man for her.

His willingness to face the pain and torture of the trials and being by Buffy's side and helping her fight the good fight is his way of making amends for the things he's done. Just because you've done something bad doesn't mean you have to wallow about it or apologize for it all the time, especially if you've taken appropriate measures to address it and change your behaviors.

And just to rant for a moment on the subject. Spike is Buffy's #1, and he proved that time and time again all through the last season when EVERYONE was questioning her motives, her abilities, and her choices at every turn. Spike never even questioned her ability to win or lost faith in her and had grown so much over the season. He went from being the guy who let her take out the shame she felt and everything she hated about herself on to him, then became the guy who built her back up when she was at her weakest. She lost faith in herself, which is profoundly dangerous on just a basic human level, and Spike showed her how he saw her, then she believed him. That is a superpower on its own, and letting yourself see and be seen is the most vulnerable and courageous thing a person can do. It invokes trust to the highest degree. Spike earned Buffy's loyalty and love, hands down, point blank.

[becomingbuffypodcast]

Who get the biggest passes from Buffyverse fans and can you give examples of the worst things these characters do?

Well this is a juicy question.

Spike, and Cordelia.

Interestingly, at some point, both characters were given the role of calling Buffy out on her "crap." James Marsters even talks about how he was brought in as a replacement for Cordelia in season 4, but then was replaced by Anya when they decided to do something else with him.

With Cordy being the mean girl, and Spike the soulless vampire, the writers had the freedom to use these characters to say and do some incredibly cruel things towards Buffy in the name of "brutal honesty," while also excusing their behavior because they weren't meant to be the hero...at least initially.

This worked a little too well, as Charisma and James were amazing in their roles. Each character is charming, beautiful, multifaceted, and extremely funny.

The problem is, you can't keep your characters stagnate, so the writers were forced to give Cordy and Spike character growth, but also find a way to retain who they are. This is incredibly difficult when your character was literally written to clash with Buffy, and is popular for saying mean, biting things in the name of "tough love."

-Cordelia-

While Queen C is more than the resident mean girl, her cruel words and selfish behavior are praised as "truth" and confidence, with her belittling nearly every member of the Scooby gang. She is constantly pitting herself against Buffy; (Homecoming, Halloween, etc) demeaning and belittling her when Buffy has personally saved her life several times. She begins to show signs of character growth in season 3, but once Xander cheats on her, reverts right back to blaming Buffy for everything. Instead of holding Xander accountable for his actions, she makes a wish that Buffy never came to Sunnydale, and then never sees the consequences for her own actions.

Even after her move to LA, she calls Buffy a cry-Buffy, blames her for turning Angel into Angelus, emasculates Wesley, victim blames and shames a SA survivor (Untouched), and is generally just careless about what she says or does, with no thought about how her words effect others.

Personally, while I do see some growth over her time on Angel, I do not buy her characterization in the later seasons where she is drastically changed to become a Champion, and then shoe-horned into a relationship with Angel. On top of that, she never atones for or even recognizes her need to change for her awful behavior, and that makes it very hard for me to forgive her for her past sins, let alone root for her.

It's possible that with better writing and without Joss being a horrible person, that her transition would have been more organic and believable.

-Spike-

For a show about feminism, the writers really spend a lot of time on this man. He steals Buffy's underwear, stalks her, makes a sex robot that looks just like her, attempts to kill her multiple times, boasts about killing and torturing other slayers, justifies it by saying they wanted it, ties her up, then spends a season belittling her just so that she'll sleep with him. THEN when she refuses sex with him, attempts to force himself on her.

And for those of you who say, "oh he just didn't have a soul yet." Fine.

After he had a soul, he boasts about assaulting her, shames her for using him for sex when he knew she didn't love him, shames her for not loving him, and blames her for the reason he's tortured with having a soul. (Beneath You)

He nearly kills Robin Wood, and then mocks him for not being loved by his mother (which is proven to be false in "Damage"), all while wearing the coat that he stole from Robin's mother after he killed her.

Not once does he apologize to Buffy or attempt to hold himself accountable, even after he has a soul. It is not until "Damage" on Angel that we see any sort of unselfish remorse.

Then to add insult to injury, season 7 has Buffy spending so much time taking care of Spike, rescuing Spike, training with Spike, reassuring Spike that he is a good man...all to the detriment of her other relationships. People like to blame the Potentials for why season 7 is as clunky as it is, but I blame the focus on Spike.

Even worse, the show doesn't seem to want Spike to change, as there's hardly a difference between pre souled and ensouled Spike. And that goes against the show's core tenant of choice and growth.

From the very beginning, vampires represent the opposite of adolescence in that they are stagnate and do not change. "Fool for Love" very clearly establishes that Spike's persona is created to compensate for his lack of an identity. Cecily's rejection of him deeply wounds him and he is shown to create a facade to mask his insecurities. So he takes from powerful women and forms a false identity around them to prove that he is not beneath them. The episode emphasizes this pattern with Cecily, Dru, and the two Slayers, continuing in present day with Buffy.

In order to be consistent with the lore and message of the show, ensouled Spike needed to look a lot different from un-ensouled Spike, but the writers knew he wouldn't be as popular.

And so we're left with a half baked season where we're supposed to believe that Buffy is distant from everyone but Spike, who looks the exact same as he did the season before when he tried to force himself on her.

It's just icky. It's the opposite of empowering. It blurs the lines of the lore. And it sends the wrong message.

We can like these characters and even root for them, but we need to be honest about their flaws, and not justify awful writing and problematic characterization.

[thepunkmuppet]

gonna incorporate this into my alternate season 7 fic, and wanted to make a quick brain fart post about it here:

spike should’ve had the chip taken out in season 7.

frankly, I think they only gave him his soul back as a way to still have him be a functional main character after doing what he did to buffy in seeing red - and even then it’s still hard to look at him the same way after that.

spike was already growing as a character on his own, beginning to do things for unselfish reasons, like comforting buffy in fool for love and (most notably) staying with dawn and the scoobies when buffy died. and it was so interesting and compelling! his struggle between his nature and his changing morals and feelings: wanting to be a monster again, to do what he wants and have what he desires, but at the same time wanting to be a better man for buffy and doing good deeds because of how loving her has slowly and imperceptibly changed him forever.

giving him the soul was just… pointless. his characterisation literally didn’t change at all, he spent maybe 3 or 4 episodes moping in a basement and acting crazy before being literally fine the next episode and seemingly not feeling that much remorse for killing robin’s mother anyway. the sleeper plotline was also useless, and would’ve been made way better if he was killing of his own accord having had the chip taken out, and feeling all sorts of complex feelings about it, leading to some juicy drama and character insights.

I think having the chip be removed would be PERFECT, as we could then explore how different he is to other vampires and how much he has grown. I can imagine him trying to feed on innocents and go on killing sprees, but not being able to, which doesn’t even make sense because vampires don’t have consciences, but regardless he just can’t bring himself to do it. I can imagine him feeding on rapists, kidnappers and murderers, much like angel when he first got his soul back, and being so utterly FURIOUS that he isn’t what he used to be (and especially furious that he kind of doesn’t WANT to be that person anymore).

idk man I just feel like there was such a clear route to go down, and instead they took the black-and-white approach and just said “he’s got his soul back he’s good now that wasn’t him” (even though his characterisation was exactly the same, but i digress). personally I prefer the much more interesting “he just got everything he’s ever wanted for over half the series and got the chip out, but he doesn’t want to be a monster anymore because he grew as a person, which vampires shouldn’t be able to do but spike is somehow unique and his love for buffy fundamentally changed him and now he has to deal with that fact and choose whether to become a hero or a villain of his own accord”.

OR SOMETHING I GUESS IDK WHO AM I TO COMMENT I WASN’T EVEN FUCKING ALIVE WHEN THEY WROTE IT GODDD IF I COULD TIME TRAVEL TO THAT WRITER’S ROOM-

[angel-thoughts-dump]

I want to ask. How come spike doesn’t get nearly the amount criticism and hate angel does? Like I never see anyone hate or criticize spike.

oh anon I wish I knew! but I've only started to get somewhat into the fandom this year, and it also surprised me how much easier it was to find harsh criticisms on angel than spike

I can try to think of reasons, tho (also bc I just like to talk about these characters).

But first I have to say I'm never going to judge the morals of characters as if they were a real person, I'm just trying to imagine why other people might like to interact/interpret them in that way.

So I'm thinking of some aspects of angel's character that could trigger a gut reaction of rejection that then gets turned into : "this character is a bad person for this and this and that"

Age difference with Buffy. I completely get why people could get icky with angel bc of this, if I saw a 26 year old dating a 16 year girl in real life I would too. Spike and Buffy also have a big age difference but at least when they start to get closer around s5 Buffy is above 18, had more romantic experiences... and we never know at what age Spike was turned so that might make it easier to overlook

Angel was a mess as a human. We don't actually get a lot of context on how the life of Spike and Angel was before getting turned, but what we see of Angel is that he was in a very low point in his life, getting drunk all the time, starting fights, sleeping with different women every night... we never see what got him to that point except for a very strict bad father, but again, if I saw a real man act like that my gut reaction would be to stay far away to avoid trouble. Spike was also a troubled human, but we never saw him act outwardly violent toward others in the scenes before he got turned into a vampire

Angelus vs Angel Vampires are shown to change their personalities with experiences just like humans, but the soul allows them to care about others. Angel with and without a soul changes drastically, instead we see Spike go through a more linear sort of character growth, because without the soul he had the chip, the obsession with Buffy, and then the support of Buffy and the company of her group that gave him a purpose. Since Angelus didn't have any of those things but instead people hunting him down that made him act even more violent in retaliation, we never got to see the more human side of Angelus as we did with Spike with no soul. Neither, a possible explanation for other issues because the show is very loose on the soul and demon lore.

Angel overprotectiveness given that a big chunk of the fans are women I'm listing this too. Angel's self-esteem issues have him thinking that if someone has to get hurt, it better be him bc he doesn't matter anyway, but this translates into him trying to take on things on his own and trying to protect Buffy in a way that can be annoying to watch with the perspective of living as women because we often get looked on as less capable. Plus, Buffy was younger at that time. Spike doesn't do this, at least not nearly as much, he prefers to follow Buffy's lead always

idk there are probably more stuff I'm not thinking of right now. Also, I don't know if there's some historical reasons for this disparity of criticism in the fandom.

But what I take away from this is that humanity always likes to pick different things that developed under similar circumstances or that serve a similar purpose but ARE different, to pin them against each other, the same way piking a team in a sport game makes you enjoy watching the game more. I think the show took advantage of this fact to do a last catch of "what vampire with a soul is best for Buffy" in the finale when they made angel visit and Buffy drop the cookie dough line, even if the sole romantic interest at that point in the story had been spike for at least 2 seasons. And that also could go into the list of reasons people got annoyed with Angel lol

[jensens-ackles]

Rules: share some unpopular opinions about 5 different fandoms of your choosing. I was tagged by @shane-west -- usually I save these types of opinions for Twitter but this could be a fun experiment too 😂

I tag: @ladybokatankryze @pedgito @bobafettsjets @mia-goths @aackles - and anyone else that wants to take part.

SUPERNATURAL The heart of the show was and always will be the brothers relationship. The bond between Sam and Dean is why so many people started watching and kept watching the show -- bringing in other characters like Castiel, Chuck, Jodie etc. and making them "bigger" characters than they originally were supposed to be just because they were "fan-favourites" is stupid and a big reason the brothers stories (especially Dean at times) felt side-lined. I would have preferred less side characters and more focus on Sam and Dean, it would have served the story and the show better in the long-run.

KILLING EVE I don't think the reaction had from Eve to Kenny's death was in character. She spent so much time with her and they bonded and when he was killed, in such a horrific way as well, they didn't really show her grieving and she seemed to move on from it far too quickly....I know her obsession was with finding Villanelle but to not have a moment to show her loss over Kenny felt wrong to me.

TED LASSO I do not like Beard. His character just seems like one big Mary-Sue for Brendan to show his "quirky" side and 9/10 times I just found him annoying (1x09 is the only episode I skip when watching the show, it bores me). The storyline of Beard and Jane is annoying when Brendan says the writers never considered Ted & Rebecca to have a romantic relationship but were more than happy to have the most toxic couple of the series end up married ��� I also think the backstory of Beard having a meth addiction was last minute to put him as a more focal point in the Nate SL because it makes ZERO SENSE WHY TED WOULD LET HIS ADDICT FRIEND DO DRUGS AND GET DRUNK WITH HIM!! and that has honestly annoyed me since it aired.

STRANGER THINGS Eddie Munson was a one season character and his death, while sad, didn't crush me as I don't care if he doesn't come back and I will actually be irked if he does.

BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER Spike is the superior Vampire to Angel. He may have done terrible things but he made the choice to change and be a good man (while soulless!) and he earned his soul - Angel's was a curse, not a choice he made. Spike should have gotten to live at the end of the show and be happy with Buffy after everything that happened between them - the fact they brought him back in the Angel series shows they know killing him off for good was a bad idea. As far as I am concerned after the final battle he made his way to wherever Buffy was living and they lived the happy ending they both deserved.

[vampirologist]

okay here are my thoughts on ensouled angel versus spike (plus discussion of spike’s chip)

so I often see the argument “spike didn’t need a soul to change/be good,” “spike chose to change while angel didn’t,” or making a direct comparison between angel’s soul and spike’s chip as evidence for the former argument and well let’s look at that from my pov!

a big point of angel’s ensoulment it that it did not automatically make him a good guy. this aspect is a major part of his backstory. what his soul did was give him consciousness of his actions, and guilt from those actions. his soul was punishment and therefore he had to suffer- that’s literally the point of his existence as an ensouled vampire. in his early ensoulment, he fed off humans he felt were deserving to be fed from, such as rapists and murderers. there are instances where he kills people while ensouled (such as in s5 of angel when he shoots one of the men working for him under wolfram & hart and the events that happened during the 50s in “are you now or have you ever been”). angel’s soul does not inherently keep him from feeding from live humans or killing them, he actively chooses not to due to the consciousness of having guilt and the ability to control his vampiric nature based on morals. he felt so bad about feeding from a man who had been shot to death instead of getting him help that he literally lived in the streets for two decades in repentance. he’s clearly shown struggling with his vampiric urges but controls them due to his ensoulment (the whole “angel” episode in s1 of buffy demonstrates this multiple times, like when he vamps out when kissing buffy and does it again when he’s holding joyce after darla feeds from her). he initially has a negative view of humans that has been shaped by his long lifetime and events like in “are you now or have you ever been,” where he actively helped out a woman for her to turn on him to save herself, and he then lets a demon feed upon the residents in the hotel as he is disillusioned with them after they formed a lynch mob again him (but he later comes to forgive her when she had lived her life full of guilt about what she had done). buffy is the catalyst for him that sparks his journey to make amends. and he uses what buffy helped him with to help others like faith. angel is literally a depiction of a man struggling with addiction, and he has to actively keep his addiction at bay lest he can spiral back. he refers to angelus as a different type of entity as it’s this aspect of himself he’s disgusted by but is nonetheless part of his past and is something that could always return if he’s not careful. it’s him without his inhibitions and having these traits whilst a human (excessive drinking, violent, hyper sexual, striving to have some type of power) be exacerbated once he becomes a demon.

spike on the other hand was in fact forced to be good in some capacity beyond moral reasons. in contrast with angel’s soul, his chip literally keeps him from harming humans by producing incredible pain, and he finds this out after wanting to actively harm willow. needing a way to feed (and a way to stay in the show) he begrudgingly teams up with the buffy gang in exchange for protection, blood, and money. over time he becomes obsessed with buffy and gets along more with everyone else. he’s allowed to be around them because he can’t actually hurt them as he literally has a chip in his brain that prevents him from doing so. the chip also conveniently lets him harm other demons, so he’s a valuable asset to the team. furthermore, he gets ostracized by other demons for helping buffy, so they’re pretty much all he has at this point. he does nice things but they are things that are extensions of buffy, such as him being beat to a pulp by glory for not revealing that dawn is the key, and helping take care of dawn in general when buffy died. this is not to say he doesn’t like. genuinely care about others but it’s because they do have that specific connection to buffy that he cares about them. spike has known about the trials to get his soul but only does so after he sexually assaults her and she’s reasonably angered and hurt from it. true, he’s portrayed as being shocked by his actions but he immediately goes to deny that he would never do such a thing despite his prior behaviors with buffy (stalking, stealing and smelling items from her home, his shrine, letting her use him violently and sexually, gloating about their relationship to riley, telling her that she came back wrong as the chip doesn’t affect her now which also means he could overpower her in this scenario!). he did not make an effort at all before that to get a soul, it’s only after he’s done this act that forever changes their dynamic and the trust they have built up. that is until she realizes that he got a soul to be worthy of her and forgives him. and in his ensouled state, there is not the obvious difference that was present with angel and angelus. sure, he initially feels a lot of guilt but he’s not remorseful to the extent angel was after he got ensouled. he’s shown to just naturally be a more humane vampire prior to his ensoulment compared to someone like angelus (as detailed by the judge saying he and drusilla reeked of humanity, while angelus didn’t), who wasn’t necessarily a “good” person while alive to begin with. outside of the show, we know that soul lore is just really murky and you can tell decisions were made early on in the show without thinking of how they would have to later develop upon it. but the idea of vampirism that has been presented in the show where it retains the personality and memories of the person but not being quite them do suit angel and spike as soulless vampires and does explain the more humane nature of spike as a vampire. so yes spike did feasibly not need the soul to change, but he had a literal buzzer in his head that went off when he did vampiric actions towards humans. he does not get the chip removed until he’s ensouled. that, combined with buffy’s influence, changed him. angel did not have that network of people like buffy to help him until he was a century into his ensoulment, and he actively chose to change when given the chance by whistler. it’s a key point of both angel and spike that it was buffy that helped them change. which is why I enjoy spike joining angel in s5 because it’s like you’re a champion now are you ready to prove it when it doesn’t involve buffy? when there’s no tangible reward besides doing the right thing? it lets him continue that champion arc without being hinged to buffy

[oveliagirlhaditright]

In rewatching some of the Angelus and Buffy scenes in season two... I actually think Angelus is in love with Buffy, but in a twisted way. And I never thought that before.

Or moreover... I think he’d love her, if he could love at all. And if maybe his toxic relationship with Darla hadn’t taught him so badly (and possibly even his toxic relationship with his dad), since Angelus is Angel at his worst.

Like, there’s a line between love and hate and it’s obsession. And Angelus couldn’t reach love, so he took the obsession Angel felt for her in a hate kind of way.

But Angelus actually seems jealous of Buffy dancing with someone else in the Bronze in Passion (if that’s what happened. I’m just watching alley box’s reaction to the video, guys). And the fact he was so mad, that he kissed Buffy and loved her/said he loved her when possessed by a ghost says a lot, I think. And, he, like, takes this kind of joy out of hurting her more than anyone else can, like Angel probably would in getting her and loving her like no one else could.

[kingbuffy]

I know I have Buffy Bias, but I always figured the reason Spike was extra spicy to Angel in ats s5 about him being a corporate sellout was part bitterness. Like Spike just got back from Sunnydale, and traded Buffy, someone he views as a true hero, for Angel. He looks at Angel, and sees a fake, a phony, a man pretending to be a hero without any of the true sacrifice. Now granted, Spike hasn't been around Angel too much in the last few years at this point, but it's hard to say if he would change his mind. Regardless, Spike saw Buffy go through some of the worst hardships of her life, while still getting up to be a hero, only to get jack shit in return. So imagine showing up in LA, and seeing the man you know is a snake regardless of his soul, lavishing in a penthouse with a cushy CEO position because he did the bare minimum in good guy school. I'd be fucking pissed.

[hello-nichya-here]

If there was only ONE change you could make to Buffy, what would it be?

I know you said one, but I'm giving you a ton because even though the show was great. there was A LOT wrong with it, and what bothers me the most depends on the day XD

1 - Let Joyce be a minimally decent mother. I'm not even talking great parent, just... not Joyce Summers. Almost anything is an improvement.

2 - No Xander judging Buffy for sleeping with Spike, a souless vampire that killed people, while he himself had just been dating and almost married Anya, a literal vengence demon that spent thousands of years torturing and killing people. Just let him have SOME level of self-awareness (and not be just Joss Whedon's way of berating the fans for liking the "wrong" character).

3 - Either making Riley minimally decent, or no letting Joss make EVERYBODY praise Riley for being the "perfect" boyfriend, when the bar was on the fucking ground and somehow he STILL failed at being better than ALL of Buffy's love interests - including all the ones that actively tried to murder her at one point or another.

4 - No Angel saying he's going to help Faith process the shock, guilt and denial over accidentally killing an innocent man, only to them dump all of his trauma onto her and saying that, on some level, she enjoyed killing an innocent man just like he liked killing humans when he had no soul, and then completely ignoring and basically gaslighting her when she pointed out that no, that was not the case, and that he can't just project onto her and think that counts as help.

5 - Either no Faith becoming evil, or at least give us more scenes between her and the Mayor because I REALLY liked the "wholesomely evil dad spoiling his daughter" vibes they had going on. (Seriously, I need an entire spin-off show of those two being the evil version of The Incredibles)

6 - NO KILLING TARA (or at least bring her back)

7 - No undoing Jonathan's character growth for the sake of a joke that wasn't even all that funny.

8 - No Gilies willingly abandoning Buffy and the others at exactly the worse time that he KNOWS is the worse time. Have the council find a way to force him to leave as revenge for the time Buffy made them her bitches.

9 - NO GILIES GOING ALONG WITH THAT SLAYER TEST BULLSHIT

10 - No Amy becoming evil for no real reason

11 - No Buffy emotionally neglecting Spike and beating the shit out of him when he doesn't deserve it

12 - No Spike trying to rape Buffy

13 - NO "SPIKE IS THE DOCTOR" STORYLINE, HOLY SHIT, WHO ALLOWED THIS? WHO WANTED THIS? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY GODDAMN SENSE!

14 - Either make Angel less of an asshole, or at least acknowledge that he wasn't that great of a boyfriend.

15 - Make season one matter more, because it honestly felt more like a pilot that is ignored 9 times out of 10.

16 - Tone down Dawn's teen angst a bit. It worked in many episodes, but there were MANY times in which it felt completely out of place (like her complaining that Buffy doesn't imagine her in her "ideal reality" when it's VERY CLEAR that what Buffy is hallucinating is NOT her dream world, but just a world in which she never left LA and the supernatural isn't real)

17 - More Ripper stuff

18 - More scenes of Buffy confronting Giles and Joyce for sleeping together because that shit was funny as hell.

19 - No ruinning things for Xander and Anya

20 - ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WILLOW IS BI!

21 - BRING UP THAT ONE KID WHO WAS CHILDHOOD FRIENDS WITH XANDER AND WILLOW, DIED IN THE PILOT, AND WHOSE NAME I TOTALLY FORGOT!

22 - This one is kind of cheating, but give the early fight scenes better effects and choreography because... yikes.

23 - No "updating" the opening theme. Let the 90's punch me in the face every single time I watch an episode.

24 - SEASON SIX. That's all I have to say.

25 - No letting Joss Whedon use characters as self-inserts.

26 - No letting Joss Whedon be Joss Whedon

[atlasshrugd]

There is something so powerful about a being made for evil, from evil - and choosing to defy his own nature - over someone who had humanity forced upon him.

I am not saying this distinction is not complicated, but it just hit me. Vampires are inherently evil creatures. They are born to do one thing: kill humans, suck their blood, make more vampires. The fact that there is a normal vampire (who, like all other vampires, has no soul) chooses to strive for humanity and light, is actually insane. Not to say that he succeeds in this striving, or that he doesn’t fail and disappoint sometimes - but the fact that that desire is there is something else.

Spike’s desire to change is first rooted in selfish motivations. He realises he loves Buffy, the Slayer, who kills his kind, which is doomed from the beginning. He knows from the start she will, and cannot, ever love him (“a man’s still gotta try”). He still tries to get in her favour, by helping her and the scoobies whenever he is called, looking after/entertaining Dawn and Joyce, taking care of disaster victims in the fallout. At first, he does all these things to “prove” to buffy that he can be better, and that his love for Buffy is changing him. This is a selfish motivation, born out of his desire for Buffy’s love; not out of his desire to be a better man.

But that desire eventually starts to morph into a genuine care. Spike begins to care for Buffy’s family, in separation from her. He cares about Dawn, and helps her to try and get her mum back, without wanting to tell Buffy. He brings flowers for Joyce’s funeral without a card, because he liked the woman (“She didn’t treat me like a freak” / “She was decent. Didn’t put on airs.” He becomes the primary guardian for Dawn in the 6 months after Buffy’s death. Buffy was not around to witness these things, and his reasons for doing them was not to gain “favour” from Buffy, as he would in the past. He is a soulless thing, created purely out of darkness and for the machinations of evil - yet despite all that, he chooses to do good without reward. Not all the time, but in the times that count. His desire to change is, at some point, not just rooted in gaining Buffy’s love for himself - but out of genuine, selfless care for who she is, and what she loves.

This is, however, not consistent. After season 5 and early s6, Spike seems to revert back into that selfishness that he was actually able to transcend. Instead of trying to be better, he tries to get Buffy to join him, because he believes that there is a huge part of her she is rejecting, and that is the part that desires him. Again, Spike takes advantage of Buffy’s depersonalisation and emotional confusion to serve his desires, which is - to have Buffy, in whatever way he can have her. For a while, this is enough, until he realises that he not only wants Buffy’s body and her lust - he wants all of her. He wants her to love him back, to see him, and to allow herself to do that. When she doesn’t, and can’t, he cannot understand, and this perpetual hurt continues to fester until it unleashes itself in vicious desperation. He hurts Buffy, he reacts in the only way he knows how and that he has spent centuries acclimating to, and he does it all out of selfishness. Need. Want. Pain.

And that makes him search for the one thing that could make Buffy potentially love him: his soul. The nature of his journey for the soul is also primarily selfish. He wants to give Buffy what she deserves, to be a man she could love, to be a kind of man. He goes through all this to have a chance of her forgiveness and, maybe but unlikely, her love. But when he receives what he has fought for, it doesn’t turn out the way he expects.

With his soul, he is plagued with perpetual guilt and self-loathing. He can barely live with himself, for all he’s done. All the emotions that have been suppressed by the demon are coming back. But when he comes back to Sunnydale - he is not that different. He didn’t get an entire personality transplant. His desires and principles have not changed. He is still Spike (as opposed to Angel and Angelus being two completely different people).

That means that the soul did not give him anything he didn’t already have. It just removed the blockage. Spike already had humanity in him, but it was not allowed to manifest unless through selfish reasons (except for those times when he blatantly fought against his nature). But the fact that Spike is not so different with/without a soul is actually more significant. Souled Spike still wants Buffy. He still loves her. He would still do anything for her, including kill. That has not changed, but the reasons behind it have changed. He loves Buffy not because he wants her or because he can’t have her, but because of what and who she is. He will continue loving her and striving to be a man who could deserve her even if she didn’t reciprocate, even if she didn’t love him back or give him her body. That is the fundamental difference between Spike with and without a soul. His love and desires are all still there, but they have become primarily selfless, as opposed to primarily selfish.

Spike still enjoys killing, but only evil things. He takes no pleasure in hurting/killing innocents, but he would take pleasure in killing an evil human (for example, Warren). Whereas Buffy could never conceive killing a human, regardless of how evil they are. This proves how Spike did not change his tune. He changed his channel.

This is why Spike is such a fascinating and rewarding character to watch. His relationship with Buffy is extremely messy, and often painful to watch, and not without its detrimental errors. He is not a fundamentally good person. He is, technically, not a person at all, but a creature born out of darkness, animated for evil purposes alone. But he defies all that - I guess, in true Spike fashion. He defies his very nature (that is, the nature of vampires), and he embraces his real nature: his humanity. He is not supposed to feel emotions like love, empathy, guilt, or remorse - but he does. He is primarily selfish, but he tries not to be (at least in late s5/early s6). And that is more moving to me than becoming a good person when cursed with a soul.

This makes him an extraordinary character in reflection to Buffy, and why I find shipping them so fulfilling.

[emmathompsonegot]

So we keep talking about how Spike has to learn to do good without the expectation of Buffy’s love, and That’s why he gets the soul, but that’s literally what he does at the end of s5???? Like, at the end of season 5 he goes into the apocalypse prepared to die, and it’s only by chance that he survives and Buffy doesn’t.

I mean, sure he’s only there because he loves Buffy, but Anya’s only there because she loves Xander! I mean, she explicitly says in The Gift that she ran during the last apocalypse, and is only staying for this one because she loves Xander, and that she feels bad that she doesn’t care as much about the others, but she just doesn’t. Anya creates a lot of holes in how the show treats Spike, but I think this one in particular highlights the weaknesses in s7

I would say that there should be some sort of parallel line in s7 for Buffy and Spike where Buffy learns to be selfish and Spike learns to be selfless, but they also cover that in The Gift!!! Buffy choosing to save Dawn at all costs Is Buffy choosing to save the only innocent part of her that hasn’t been eaten up by violence and grief. And I think Spike’s whole “I know you’ll never love me, but you treat me like a man” speech covers that he’s choosing to give his life without the expectation of a reward, simply because he’s grateful for the way his love for Buffy has transformed him

Don’t get me wrong, I totally see what the show was doing with Spike’s arc, I’m just saying I think it was kind of redundant. I also think he’s basically the only character who gets a thematically satisfying (if redundant) ending, which is a little odd since the show is called “Buffy.” I’m always happy for more Spike screentime, but I have to agree that it’s weird that his arc got such a strong focus in s7 when Buffy’s was so murky.

Like, how does Buffy change from the beginning of s7 to the end? I think what they were going for is that she learns to open herself up to rely on other people, but they don’t... really show that? She doesn’t talk to her friends all season, and the people she’s supposed to be relying on aren’t reliable!! The majority of the conflict in the season comes from people refusing to just do as she fucking tells them, resulting in Badness. Aside from being tiresome to watch, it doesn’t... achieve anything? Like, you can’t have both the message that Buffy should trust the people around her And the conflict that the people around her don’t trust Buffy. It results in a season where Buffy repeats Cordelia’s “I am judge, jury, and executioner” line, but it seems a lot more reasonable now that the alternatives are so fucking stupid.

The material change is that by the end of the season she’s no longer the only slayer. That’s great for her, but it’s not character growth. Like, I guess if you continue the s5 vs s7 thing then it’s a reversal of The Gift, and now Buffy is the one who has to move on, but it doesn’t hold the same weight. I’m not sure how they could have fixed any of this. It was just interesting to watch the end of s5 again, and realize how it actually covers most of the points that people debate about s7

[theladyofspaceandtime]

I started watching BTVS & Angel back in 2012 and throughout the years, my opinions have changed and grown with me regarding certain things about the show. Now, these are just my personal opinions that don’t reflect how I feel towards anyone else with different ones. 

I used to be a Spuffy (Spike x Buffy) shipper because I liked how Spike went the extra limit to get his soul to make amends with Buffy for all he did to her, and to be the better man. I also liked how even as a vampire, despite some bad things he did, he was at least better about it than Angelus. 

However, recently, since like 2019, that ship has sailed for me because of the fact that I think Buffy is better off alone by herself. She doesn’t need Angel and she doesn’t need Spike, who are usually her main love interests. Like she’s said herself, “I’m Cookie Dough. I’m not done baking. I’m not finished becoming who ever the hell it is I’m gonna turn out to be. I’ll make it through this, and the next thing, and the next thing, and maybe one day, I turn around and realize I’m ready. I’m cookies.” It’s honestly one of my favorite quotes and something that helped me out a lot in the past, even now. Buffy doesn’t need a man, she needs someone who will support her, understands her, and will be there when she needs them, something Angel and Spike haven’t quite lived up to although they try. 

This leads me to another slayer similar to Buffy herself, her foil, Faith Lehane. For Faith, I insanely shipped her with Angel (Fangel, Faith x Angel) after Season 1 of the show, whether it was romantic or just friendship, because he was the one trying to help save her and help her on her road to redemption after everyone had given up on her. He understood EXACTLY what she was going through and was going to be that one person for her that he needed when he lost himself in a similar fashion. In fact, I still ship them as both romantic or friendship, but when it comes down to it, Faith is just like Buffy here. 

Which takes me to the topic of Fuffy (Faith x Buffy) and why it is my most favorite thing for both Buffy and Faith. Like, if someone was to ask me about my favorite ship for the show now, despite liking Fangel, I’d probably choose this one. Why? Because these girls understand each other perfectly. Not only because of sharing that slayer bond, but especially because of EVERYTHING they’ve been through from friends, to enemies, to leaders, to literally everything! They understand each other in a way others could never fully grasp, and because of that reason they are perfect either as friends or romantic interests. They help support each other, understand one another, and are always there in some way. In other words, they are my ultimate OTP because they helped each other grow and blossom to become better people from the negative and toxic things that use to cloud them, and that’s exactly as it should be! There is just something different for Buffy regarding Faith then there is for her relationships with Angel and Spike and this is the only way I can describe it. Ya know? Faith and Buffy are literally each other’s other halves! Different sides of the same coin! 

[prose-for-hire]

UC Sunnyhell: Part three

There’ll be Hell to pay

Previous Part // Next Part

Pairing: Spike x reader

Request: Spike and you haven’t been getting along and it all reaches a boiling point. Harsh words are exchanged but something happens to make you both question your thoughts about the other. Will this be enough to change your perceptions though? College AU

Og request by: @sunflower-stan​

Requested tags: @fictionalhoomanofnowhere @harpersmariano​

Warning: Sex reference, swearing.

He appeared to have no redeeming qualities. His personality was flat, two-dimensional. Like some bully in a kids cartoon. Not that you had particularly looked very hard since your first meeting.

He had upset you. And this ‘revenge’ was all you were thinking about. Your friends had planned it all out with you that night. They were all going to arrive soon and you were pacing with nerves. This could go badly.

You had convinced them to choose the least likely action to get you all into a physical fight. Something that appeared innocent that would annoy him greatly. If he got really mad there would be hell to pay. 

They all came over, spreading their stuff around the living room. Taking up as much space as possible because of the way he had all but made you live out of your room rather than face him. They made as much noise as possible and basically tried to antagonise him as much as possible. The way he had with you.

When someone mentioned Angel might show, Spike snapped and stormed out of his room ready for a fight. No bloody way was he coming into his home.

As he opened his mouth, about to speak, he saw something in Xander’s hand. He noticed that you had all been passing around a liquor bottle. He snatched it from Xander.

“That’s mine” He accused.

“Oh no, actually spike, that one over there was yours. My friend Faith supplied this one” Buffy explained, giving him an overly sweet smile as Xander took it back. He scowled between her and his now empty liquor bottle.

“Get out” He snarled.

“You’re not the only one that lives here-” Cordy started in your defense, but she was quickly cut off.

“Fine. We’ll make it a real party. I’ll invite my mates won’t I?”

“You don’t even like them that much” You replied getting to your feet, you had overheard him mutter it to himself when one of them annoyed him again.

“Well, I’ll like them a lot more when they round up your little gang of-” He smirked at their reactions, “Or, everyone could just bugger off I suppose. Wouldn’t need to invite ‘em then”

Everyone shared concerned looks. They had heard about the types of people he had around him. They looked at you as you broke the stare-down you and Spike were sharing. You just nodded and they scrambled to leave. Making sure that you knew you could call them at any time.

Once they left he smirked and began to turn to leave back to his bedroom. But you wouldn’t let him go. Not this time.

“Will you just grow up!?” You screamed as he turned around and closed the space between you. If there was hell to pay after these words you would happily go skint. He should hear them. After everything.

“Yeah, ‘cause you and your little bloody clique are right grown ups, yeah? So grown-up you whisper about people behind their backs!”

“What?”

“I’m disgusting to you, yeah? You’re such a bloody ponce – like them, not even got the stones to say it-” He said and you realised he had heard what you said about him to Willow and Buffy. You didn’t think about it, you just shouted back.

“You want me to say it to your face?!”

“Yeah, might be a change from you being such a back-stabbing bitch”

“Fine! You’re horrible, nasty and so fucking inconsiderate! You think the whole world’s against you but we don’t care! We just don’t care!”

“Yeah, well-”

“I’m not done – you’re so arrogant! You think the whole world revolves around you. Well, I live here too! I pay rent I deserve some space in my own home! I tried so hard to be nice to you and all you’ve ever done is throw it back in my face!”

“Oh yeah, everybody kick Spike when he’s down” he muttered despite him asking you to say what you thought. You didn’t realise but one of the people he frequently had sex with had finished it with him for the final time earlier that day, “You don’t bloody know me!”

“I don’t want to!” You shouted, this time when you turned you really did just walk away. He watched you go, eyes lingering on you as you walked away.

He snapped himself out of it, jaw tensing and you both slammed your doors on each other. He infuriated you. Completely annoyed you. Just like you angered him. Infuriated him. He couldn’t believe that he would have to live the rest of the year with you.

You had both started this because you didn’t know each other. You had assumed. Not wanted to even try to know each other. First impressions are hard to get over. You had appeared to him as some do-gooder that wanted to “fix” his immoral ways. You hung out with those clean-cut-9-to-5-losers that never gave him the time of day.

You had wrongly assumed all he cared for was sex and causing trouble. Hurting people just for the fun of it. You never tried to delve deeper. Think about why he acted this way. Like you said, you didn’t care.

Weirdly, since that night, he kind of respected you a little more after your outburst. You showed that you did in fact have a backbone when he had assumed you had yours removed like most of the people on campus at birth.

But you stood firm, you were just usually nice to people because it just felt obvious to you to treat people with kindness until they gave you a reason not to. And, boy, had he given you reason not to.

As you were thinking this. He was thinking about you. He had always been that way, the line between hatred and... no. He didn’t care. He was indifferent about you. Or, that’s what he kept telling himself. Wouldn’t even entertain a thought to the contrary.

After this argument, he just kept out of your way. You barely said two words to each other, you just lived your separate lives.

You had realised how the other saw them. How there appeared to be faults there that couldn’t be bridged. You had gotten bored of fighting. It was starting to cut closer to each other’s bones. You were exhausted from it. So you kept away from each other.

You had barely spoken for almost an entire month. If it wasn’t for the occasional musical soundtrack or the smell of smoke neither of you would know the other was in.

That was, until something happened. Something neither of you would have ever thought possible. It all began one Saturday evening, at an open mic night.

You arrived at the dimly lit bar and walked in a little tentatively. Your heart was already beginning to race and you still had a while until it was your turn. You were finally going to do it. You were going to perform something you had written.

You smiled at someone that you recognised, he came over to you greeting you excitedly. The guy was friendly enough but you just weren’t able to form that connection you longed for with him. He was very loud and dramatic – a one-man show, if you will. You struggled to keep up with him in conversation.

“Great turn out tonight!” He gushed as you looked around at the two other people that had turned up. You nodded distractedly as you saw a figure at the bar. You recognised the figure but just couldn’t place it.

That was, until he turned around and caught the light. The bleach blonde hair. That leather duster that appeared to be surgically attached to him.

You caught each other’s eye. Scowling at the other. Why would he possibly be here? Was he going to heckle everyone? Start a bar fight?

The truth was, Spike would come every month or so. To read his writings, his poems. He did this because nobody rarely turned up and the tender took a shine to him and offered half priced beer.

He took his beer and sat in his usual corner. Hiding until it was time for him to get up and speak. He watched you, burning holes in you as you walked up to the bar yourself, asking the guy what he recommended. He stared at you. It was a student bar, there wasn’t an exclusive wine list.

You rolled your eyes and just asked for some shots. Three, to be exact. You threw them back one after the other. Spike raised his eyebrows and then smirked when your entire body appeared to shiver in reaction. You went and sat near the front, facing away from him for a while.

Both of you began to feel more and more nervous about speaking. Especially with the other there. Suddenly you got to your feet, full of nerves you needed to have a breath of fresh air.

He saw you leave and this relieved him. You must have become too nervous. He could go up to speak now that you were gone.

And just in time, his name was announced and he got up swigging from his beer as he walked. Glaring at the enthusiastic guy that had been talking to you who had put both of his thumbs up at Spike as he got up to where the mic was set up.

You returned just as he started to speak. But you sat down without him seeing it at first. You heard those words. The breath was knocked out of your body. The words spoke to your soul. The feeling behind them, it was all you had longed to find. Someone with a mind that expressed things the way you did… but the words were his.

He spoke with such passion, such feeling. The words were incredible and you couldn’t believe they were coming from his mouth. You had goosebumps and you just stared, suddenly finding yourself really looking at him. At the way he spoke. The way he looked.

You held your card containing your own words to your chest, there was no way you would be able to go up after that.

You had listened to his words, all but swooning. Hanging on to every last syllable less it dissolve into the air and you would forget it forever.

How could someone with that much of a nasty attitude have so much heart hidden away? You were in awe. His words, the feelings behind them. It was like the musicals you loved so much. Exploring love and loss and heart.

He caught your eye as he walked from the stage. He hesitated, realising what you had seen but just walked past you to the bar. He ordered his body weight in liquor and just sat there.

Then they announced your name. You jolted with shock, still reeling from Spike’s eloquent words. You cleared your throat, nodded at yourself and stepped up to the microphone. He rolled his eyes at you turning away.

Then he heard what you had to say. Such meaningful prose shared with the world. Baring yourself so raw. The words you spoke had real heart. Real meaning, more so than he thought you had been capable of.

His eyes were on you now. Only you. He didn’t even pick up his beer as he listened.

The spotlight was blinding though so you never saw him look at you in the way he did. That flash of understanding, the way that he could empathise with the way you spoke. How you wrote.

You both returned home separately. Neither of you could stop thinking about the other. Those words. Those feelings. The way he looked up there. The way you did. Almost ethereal to the other. It was confusing. Wrong.

You definitely didn’t speak to each other at all after this. You didn’t know what to say. You were so torn. Between what you knew about him and what you had just heard Had you been wrong about him?

His words had stopped time. His thoughts, feelings. They meant something. They had settled somewhere inside you and you weren’t sure if they would ever leave.

You were daydreaming about his words again, looking out of the window as you waited for your water to boil. You hadn’t realised the man himself had walked into the room behind you. You had spun around and overbalanced.

You tripped and he put a hand out to steady you, before snatching his hand away immediately in horror. You just stared, frowning.

“Watch it” he said, but he turned frowning at himself. He stared at you for a second as if he wanted to apologise but then he turned on his heel and left. Your words, the one that you had spoken had made him rethink. You weren’t just some plastic copy of Buffy and her sorority sisters. You weren’t shallow to him like Angel and Xander or just ‘one of the boys’.

You had heart. You had thoughts and feelings that transcended this mundane part of the world. You had such a beautiful mind that spoke to his own. He was just fighting against it as much as he could.

Since a few more occurrences like this, lingering glances. Weird silences where things felt unsaid, your courage began to grow.

You had to say something. You would only regret it if you didn’t. You feel like you had misjudged him. That he was hard to live with but that there was a promise there. You knocked on his door and began to open it.

“Bugger off!”

“Uh, sorry, I… I know we haven’t been getting on but-”

“Understatement of the century that” He grumbled, looking up from where he was lying on his side in his bed. He was flipping through a magazine.

“I just… your words. The other night. I couldn’t not say something. They were beautiful”

“You’re bloody hilarious” He said harshly, jaw tensing. He felt that you were teasing him. Making fun of him for his poetry. He was used to it.

You didn’t realise but his past was the reason he was so defensive. Had to harden himself. Because they all used to tease him for his poetry. For his soft side. Until he hid it completely. Didn’t allow anyone to see him that vulnerable (apart from the two patrons of the pub the open-mic night was held in – he had to express it someway).

“No. I mean it, I’m not- I wouldn’t make fun of you. I’m really not like that, I loved your poems I was wondering if you were going again in two weeks-”

“What so we can skip there together through the merry fields of glee?”

“I’m s-sorry. I shouldn’t have bothered” You shook your head, he saw that you were genuinely embarrassed and upset. You should have known, just because he could write and his heart wasn’t as completely hardened as you thought didn’t mean that he suddenly wanted to be your friend. Just because you suddenly had one common interest.

“Y/n” he said and you turned back, your hope lifting slightly, “close the door on your way out”

Your face crumbled slightly and you turned and slammed it shut. You had wanted so desperately to have a connection with someone, on that level. That you would even chase after it at even the slightest glimpse of feeling from someone you didn’t like.

You couldn’t see him, but he couldn’t stop thinking about you. About that offer. He was so lonely, no matter what he filled his time with he wanted to be able to trust someone. Desperately. But they always disappointed him eventually. He didn’t want to give you or anyone the power to do something like that.

There was a hint of understanding that began between you though since you went to tell him your thoughts. You spoke to him as if he was an equal, for the first time in a long time that someone had. And he let you. You looked at him, past the front he put on. It was only a glimpse but you felt the anger melt away. It had been exhausting living that way.

He wouldn’t dare verbalise his understanding. He did make some subtle changes though. He didn’t blast his music full volume as much. Spent more nights out, rather than bringing as many people home. He was still messy but he left a space for you to live your own life too. Which was really all you could ask for.

You had both humanised yourselves to the other. Let the other into your mind. Your perspectives. He didn’t mention what he had started to do and you wouldn’t dare, but you had definitely noticed. You had formed a kind of truce. And understanding of sorts.

The whisper of a possibility of friendship kind of hung in the air between you. It was there, you could both feel it but it wasn’t solid. You couldn’t grab onto it. It was transient, floating all around. An abstract concept.

For one of you to make the first move, to try and make some kind of amends. It would mean something too great. You wouldn’t push it, you were still unsure.

You were sat in your elective class. You hadn’t really been sure what to take so you ended up in this one. The dreaded paired presentation were looming.

Nobody usually sat next to you, none of your friends took the class so you were facing the embarrassing walk to the front to ask the professor if there was any one else that needed a partner.

That was, until a guy walked in. He was tall and he appeared to take a lot of care on styling his hair. You weren’t sure you had ever seen him in the class before and this was confirmed to you when he stood at the front scanning the rows for a spare seat before narrowing on the seat beside you.

He walked near you and awkwardly asked if the seat was free before he sat beside you. Just as the professor announced that the person sat beside you would be your presentation partner. He turned to you and nodded in acknowledgement that you were paired.

“Angel” He offered his name and it clicked. You had met him before, you think. At a frat party you went to with Buffy so she could try and find him. Either way you had heard so much about him you felt as if you already knew him.

“Y/n” You replied and he nodded his head before it clicked with him too.

“You’re Buffy’s friend, right?”

“Yeah, she’s like a big sister” You smiled and he nodded. You spoke amiably for a while rather than actually doing the work you had been assigned at first.

Actually, you found that you were doing most of the talking but you felt comfortable with him in a way you hadn’t expected you would. The guy was pleasant perhaps a bit more reserved than you would have expected for this ‘popular frat guy’ everyone had made him out to be.

“You’re the one stuck living with Spike, huh?”

“Yeah, he’s…”

You didn’t really know how to finish that sentence now. You had formed a kind of truce. A tenuous understanding. He annoyed you still in some sense but you were intrigued by him. You wanted to understand him. See what else he may be hiding deep down. Why he was the way he was. Angel just nodded, presuming that the tailing off was you implying how horrible Spike was. He had never liked him.

You weren’t friends. You weren’t sure that you and Spike would ever end up friends.

[tinumiel]

My Spuffy feels and why I feel that Spike/Buffy are a much more complete and better suited couple.

First of all, I want to say. I have yet to read BTVS Season 8 to 12, so please, please, PLEASE don’t spoil me anything. 

TW warning: the following analysis contains mentions of sexual assault, emotional abusie, toxic relationships and death.

First thing you need to know is that Buffy and Spike’s relationship in Season 6 is toxic and mutually abusive. This doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it’s good moments, but it is toxic none the less, and there is no way around that fact. The fact that their actions can be explained does not mean they can be excused. I know it, you know it, and any Spuffy shipper who tells you otherwise really missed the point of everything. They do a lot of harm to each other, and neither is at a healthy mental state to have a healthy relationship. Buffy is dealing with her resurrection, and Spike is dealing with these feelings that go against everything he has ever believed during his time as a vampire and he doesn’t understand, and probably an identity crisis. While they find comfort in each other, it is not in a healthy manner. Buffy is using Spike, and Spike displays obsessive behavior towards her.

It all culminates in Spike trying to force himself on Buffy, which is the final proof that this relationship had become as unhealthy as they come.

But, we need to analyze the entire situation more deeply, because, unlike most cases, it is not a black and white thing. Spuffy is not black and white, and that is the depth of their relationship.

What is important to remember is that, at this point, Spike is still a vampire without a soul. But, unlike other soulless vampire (including Angel, all you apologists), he is capable of feeling affection and genuine empathy for others. He is capable of good deeds, as we see majorly in season 5. He cared particularly for Dawn and Joyce (see how he paid his respects to Joyce after she died, not because he wanted to impress Buffy, but because he was genuinely fond of Joyce). After Buffy’s death, he could have left Sunnydale, since there was seemingly nothing left for him there. The Scoobies could not and would not remove his chip, the girl he was in love with was dead, he could hunt demons anywhere. But, he stayed AND helped the Scoobies to fight against the demons. This was, most probably, because he had come to care for Dawn and wanted to look after her. 

But, he is still a soulless vampire. And as long as he stayed as such, he would never be a good guy. He was capable of good and selfless acts, he was capable of love, but his natural condition remained evil. In order for him to truly redeem himself, he needed to have a soul, and in order for that to happen, there needed to be a turning point for him, an event terrible enough for him to fully realize his “evilness”, process it, be horrified by it, and decide to atone for it. This was the sexual assault on Buffy. It could have been something else: murder, torture, etc. But the creators chose this, and I think it makes sense, considering how deteriorated their relationship had become. 

But, how could Spike really become aware of te fact that what he had done was something terrible? In order for that to happen, I think the central factor is that he had to have no truly evil intentions. Spike sexually assaulted Buffy; but, he didn’t mean to. It was not a conscious action in which he did not care for the victim’s feelings, and only for his gratification. This is what allows him to realize that what he has done is terrible and that he must hold himself accountable for it. What proves that he had no ill intentions?

I read that a key factor in Buffy and Spike’s relationship in season 6 is the word “no”. But in this case, no usually meant yes. A problematic statement, but let me explain. Most of the times they said no to having sex with each other (particularly Buffy), she did not really mean it. It was more of a mandatory thing for her to say because she was not supposed to want Spike, but she did. It was why they always ended up together. The struggle was also part of, let’s say, their foreplay (see that very hot scene of the house destroying). Spike and Buffy’s relationship, particularly at this stage, it’s a love and hate, enemies to lovers dynamic. So, all of this was normal for both Spike and Buffy. Because of this, when Buffy refused him, Spike initial thought it was most probably that it was just another case of the same scenario. 

The audience realizes it’s not way before him, of course. Because we are not soulless vampires. Spike, while capable of selfless acts (like I already said), is coming from a very selfish position in this moment. He doesn’t stop to think of what Buffy is really feeling or considering the possibility that this time her no is a “real no”, but assumes that she is simply resisting him in the same manner she always did, because in that moment, he is being a typical soulless vampire. It is something the audience has probably come to forget at that point because of the good he had done previously, but, like I said, Spike would never be a good guy as long as he didn’t have a soul. He was bound to commit something atrocious sooner of later.

But, and here is the key element to this situation and one of his main differences with Angel. He realizes his mistake. Not exactly on his own accord. Like Buffy says, it was only because she stopped him, but that moment of stop was shocking enough to “bring Spike back from his frenzy”, really think the situation through and realize what he had been about to do. And unlike soulless Angel, Spike feels guilt for his most terrible act, he feel disgust at himself. He realizes he doesn’t want to be this person, and that he has to do something to take responsibility for what he has done. This is the moment Spike realizes he wants to be a good guy. And that he can’t be a good guy as long as he doesn’t have a soul. This is the pivotal moment. It is in this point that his actions do become black or white: he either chooses to be good or he chooses to remain bad. And he goes for the good action, thus initiating his redemption arc. But this would not have been possible without the extreme situation that was the horrible act of attempting to abuse Buffy.

After this, we reach Season 7. Spike has a soul now, and much like it happened to Angel, he is taking responsibility for all the terrible things he did in the past. He can’t change them, and all his victims are most likely dead, so the only way to take accountability is to start to do good, which he does. The one of his victims he can answer to for his crime is Buffy. So begins the journey of Spuffy in season 7, that begins with Spike properly experiencing and accepting the guilt and blame, and understanding the extent of the harm he did to Buffy, and accordingly changing his behavior. Where he was once selfish and obsessive, he is now comprehensive and supportive. He gives her the space she needs, listens to her, respects her feelings. The trust between them begins to develop and strengthen, and their relationship matures into a healthy love that is not based purely on physical attraction and unresolved feelings; but in full communication and mutual compromise. Just like Buffy accepted that Angel with a soul was not the same man as Angel without a soul, she accepts that Spike with a soul is not the same as Spike without a soul, and thus, forgives him and starts to trust him again. And this time, Spike proves himself worthy of this.

A lot of people, for some reason, seem to judge Angel with or without a soul as separate people (like Buffy does) but Spike with or without a soul as the same. I don’t know if this is because Angel answers to different names depending on his soul condition, or because his personality changes drastically, but either way, of course under this circumstances Angel is going to seem more healthy and come out on top. But if he were to be judged under the same standards as Spike, he would turn out to be much, much worse. Unlike Spike, Angel without a soul is incapable of love, selfless acts, or feeling empathy under any circumstances, nor is he interested in them. His only joy is to cause pain. He abuses Buffy, perhaps not sexually, but definitely mentally and emotionally, stalks her, threatens and kills those who are close to her and is obsessed solely with the intention of causing her pain. And he does not regret any of these actions. His soul is imposed on him as a punishment. Once he has it, of course, he is happy for it. But when he loses it, he has no interest in taking it back. Spike, on the other hand, has his soul restored. He resolves to search it on his own initiative because he wants to get better. He is willing to face trials that will test his physical and emotional resolve for it because he wants to be a good man. Angel’s soul is meant to be a punishment. Spike’s soul is meant to be a blessing. So, if they are both to be compared and judged, it has to be under the same terms. Just like Buffy does in the show. So they are either judged as separate entities (with and without a soul), or as a whole.

Taking all of this into account, I think it’s safe to say Spike and Buffy are on the long run a much better suited pair, because their relationship is much more mature and developed. They’re based on open, serious conversation, and mutual agreement and compromise, as love should be. Both Spike and Angel (that is, Spike and Angel with a soul) are good, healthy love interests for Buffy, but Angel’s relationship is much less mature and developed. Angel wants to protect her and preserve her, while Spike wants to support her and let her grow. One is a relationship from her teenage years, when she was still growing to be the person she was to become; while the other is a relationship developed throughout different stages in which they have both come to know each other fully well at their worst and their best.

Angel will always be Buffy’s first love and first soulmate. It will always be true love. And they will always have a deep, unique connection. But Spike is her true love soulmate, and to a much deeper level, because just as they reach the point of becoming the man and woman they were meant to be, they are there for each other to have the relationship and love they were both meant to find.

If you read this whole uncalled for reflection, you deserve a cookie and all my love.

[tetrakys]

Spuffy anon update: I watched 7x02 (that entire scene at the church... wow. James Masters is THAT man) and it really hurts seeing Spike like that, but it also hurts every time I remember that awful scene and I want to punch the person who wrote it because they really could've gone into a different (and better) direction and not make me feel like a terrible person for shipping Spuffy. What are the reasons you'd mentioned last ask? Make me feel better 😭

Spoiler for people who have never watched btvs, and plan to do it in the future, go away, don't read this post. Also trigger waring for some unplesant stuff. Shooo.

Ok, here we go.

That scene, however aweful it was, served to remind people (both viewers and buffy) that Spike was still nothing more than a vampire with a muzzle. Vampires are soulles demons, there is nothing good in them, none of the other vampires we had met had been capable of goodness and selflessness. Except Angel. Ah. But Angel had a soul, anything good coming from him was actually a product of his humanity. What was Angel without his soul? A psycho serial killer incapable of feeling anything.

Now, compare full vampire Spike with full vampire Angel... wolds apart! Spike in season 4 is forced to stop being violent and to learn a new way to live, but his instincts are still the instincts of a vampire. He learns to love and to care but he is still a demon. In this respect Spike is amazing, he literally built step by step his own humanity and, when he realises that there is something missing that he will never be able to fill, a whole that will still push him to act horribly even if he now objectively knows is wrong, well he went to get its missing part.

I hated that scene, but it served as the push Spike needed to go and get his soul back. Without soul he would have never met Buffy's standard (understandibly), she would've never loved him, and he would've never fully loved nor moved on from his past self. And nothing short of almost hurting Buffy would've pushed him to do that. You saw him, he was disgusted of himself once he fully realised what he had almost done. And at the beginning of season 7 he is completely insane, the guilt of everything he did in the past centuries is unberable.

That Chuch scene is 10/10 effing amazing, probably my favourite.

So, to end this because I could talk about Spike for ages and I doubt you want to read an essay, hold your horses, Spuffy is starting NOW. Everything you have seen so far was but an intro, S7 is where everything changes.

Hope this helped you get a different perspective. Let me know how you are feeling. Oh and please get back to me once you get to the "you are the one" scene so we can fangirl together 🥰