#but a lot of people thinking each other are gross when the problem isn't moral purity or whatever it's that your interpretations | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

fenharael · 2 years

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one of these days i'm gonna write a long ass post no one will read comparing the Yashahime Sessrin debacle to the Elden Ring Mohgmiq shipping community.

actually i'll just do it now.

Full disclosure I wrote a lot about how much I hated Sessrin and was definitely in the anti-tags. I never had an issue with people shipping it though- I had a big issue with the character assassination that had to happen for the ship to be canon and the complete and utter bastardization of the Sess/Rin relationship in order to make it work for a show that sucked absolute ass.

Shipping isn't a moral statement on a persons character. fiction and art exists to allow people to explore dark, twisted, or taboo subjects- among self expression, social commentary...etc etc. if a person ships something "problematic" that's their business, and if it interacts with a wider fandom audience it's common courtesy to tag or warn people of the content they might see.

do you have to like or agree with someone's ship? no. do you have to be friends with that person or engage with them and their interests? no. does someone shipping something morally ambiguous, distasteful or "wrong" mean that person as a whole is bad, evil, or somehow toxic? no. can it mean those things? yes. but that's not something you can tell from purely seeing someone's tastes in fiction, media, or shipping online.

when it comes to narrative and media portraying things as "good" or "bad" or if something has an underlying commentary or agenda, it gets more complex.

take lolita, or game of thrones for example:

lolita is a novel which depicts a pedophilic relationship through the eyes of an abuser. the relationship and lolita herself are seen from humbert's perspective- he sexualizes her and rapes her and still casts her in the light of some sort of temptress though she's only 12. he admits to himself that's what he's doing and the novel- despite being from his POV doesn't excuse or praise this. he is not a hero, he is not praised, and the relationship is not cast as healthy, desirable or good.

in GoT we get cersei and jaime. twins who are so in love they tear each other and the world around them apart to be together. their relationship is tragic, it's viewed as taboo and degenerate by characters in the novel- and for most people that would be really gross and unacceptable to see irl. but their relationship still has value and meaning, they are two screwed up people who ultimately are condemned for being horrible not for their incest but because they do bad things and dont care about anyone but each other.

on one hand, we have an author who depicts something morally reprehensible to explore an unreliable narrative - the fucked up psyche of a middle aged dude who's so up his own ass that he thinks a child has seduced him and that's like, ok.

on the other hand we have an author who has written a relationship most would consider morally bad- but ultimately what makes those characters immoral isn't their love- it's them.

both of these relationships aren't acceptable or seen as healthy or safe in real life, but their inherent depiction isn't "wrong" and doesn't make the media they appear in "wrong".

can there be issues or problems when media depicts problematic, harmful, or morally ambiguous things as a positive? oh yeah.

to bring us back to Yashahime, part of the reason the sessrin ship got SO much backlash was because of how it was portrayed.

for some context: we have an already established relationship between sesshomaru and rin in the OG inuyasha- rin is a child of around 8, Sesshomaru is an immortal demon lord of unknown age, but looks to be 18-20. in inuyasha, he acts as her guardian and caretaker.

in yashahime we get a rin who from episode 1 has: zero agency, zero character growth or personality, zero change in mindset or mannerisms from her depiction as a child. and on top of that when we do see her interact with her beloved husband...he literally treats her like shit. like. i won't go too much into it because it was really poorly handled.

but the point is- sunrise went out of there way to establish rin was impregnated as barely a teenager by her mentor figure, make it out to be some grand romance and then when they had the opportunity to showcase said romance made it the most cringeworthy and sad thing you could possibly imagine.

this was against the perceived wishes of the original author, rumiko takahashi who herself stated she created their original relationship to be more of a parent/child dynamic. that and it basically nullified any and all character development sesshomaru had in the OG show.

this is an example of a narrative portraying something explicitly harmful as romantic or positive to the possible detriment of the viewer base- who contain young girls who may now see grooming behavior as okay and normal.

that being said- people who decide to ship or write about these relationships may do so for a wide variety of reasons. maybe they want to explore the dynamic more. maybe they want to make their own commentary. maybe they just thinks it's interesting or compelling. or maybe they have some sort of trauma related to it and it helps them to explore it. ultimately whatever the reason- it's none of your business.

in fandom, you have the choice to engage with or not engage with things you don't like. if the content is tagged and you do it anyway- that's on you.

just because i personally find sessrin gross, icky, and would really rather not see it ever doesn't mean the people who do like it are bad. it means they like it.

the same goes for people who ship Mohgmiq. it's a ship. it's a ship in a videogame that is never once portrayed as UWU ~romantic~ in fact, the story and atmosphere pretty clearly make it out to be an act of intelligent evil. (no matter how tragic mohg is and no matter whatever is going on with miquella and his bewitchment- which like who knows maybe we get a twist - but that's not the point)

and even if it didn't go out of its way to do that, people can still ship whatever they want.

anyway this is getting long so disclaimer:

people with ships that contain morally ambiguous or bad pairings aren't inherently bad people

can a pattern of problematic or predatory behavior and preferences give you a heads up that someone may be not great? yeah but that's a different discussion

i don't have the energy to write up a whole thing about pedophilia in anime, american obsessions with youth and child pageants, how underaged porn contributes to the harm and sexualization of minors- especially non-white children and a ton of other shit that ties into this atm

there's more discourse going on around how mohg is the only LGBTQ rep in ER and he's a pedophile etc etc and that's a whole thing for another post BUT if you seriously think he's the only queer character in ER buddy i've got news for you

censorship is bad

touch grass

#disc horse #mohg/miq #shipping #long post #miquella the unalloyed #anti sessrin #sessrin #proshipping #antiship #mohgmiq #mohg lord of blood

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sanchoyo · 3 years

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danny phantom 14-20 thoughts!! I finished up s1 :D these last few eps were actually really really good!!!

-did. did tucker really just say esperanto was a dead language only spoken as a secret code between geeks. google says around 100,000 people actively speak it. oh my god...it being an auxiliary language doesn't mean its 'just for geeks to speak in code' ...it helps bridge gaps between people who don't have a language in common...

-danny really isn't pulling punches when it comes to fighting the ghost-cop possessed people huh. like he SLAMMED KWAN INTO THE CONCRETE SO HARD. HE THREW PAULINA INTO A BILLBOARD. will that...I mean it WOULD carry over to their bodies non-possessed, right? like if the ghost piloting their bodies gets hurt?? itd be so upsetting to be possessed, lose time, then wake up covered in bruises (and possibly, broken bones??) real horror movie stuff im sure wont be addressed in any way

-tuckers parents seem nice! I like them :)

-WULF IS CUTE AND I FEEL BAD. im so glad the gang realized he was only causing trouble bc of the shock collar walker put on him and helped. also, him wearing that big hoodie with the hood on, and thinking its subtle. we can tell youre still a giant wolfie :) THEN GETTING SUCKED INTO THE PORTAL AAAAH :( anxiously waiting to see Him Again....

-DANNY BLASTING HIS PARENTS THINKING THEY WERE OVERSHADOWED LMFAO GET THEIR ASSES. maddie marking how many ghosts she gets with lipstick tallies on the side of her portal gun? kindaaa iconic tho. (ALSO, SHE WAS LIKE, 2 FT AWAY FROM HIM RIGHT AFTER SHE TRIED TO SHOOT HIM. HOW DO YOU NOT RECONINZE YOUR OWN SON??? like sure, he might have diff hair/eye colors. but like, if one of my family members dyed their hair, and was wearing contacts, its not like id be like 'wHO IS THIS STRANGER!!!' ...he still has all his facial features!! same everything!!! I hate it here)

-paulina being #1 girl realizing danny's a friendly ghost immediately. smart queen. lancer and kwan ran away right after he made this sweet baby face at them:

which is hilarious.

-ok. im not saying his bullying is JUSTIFIED, but. dash looked so pleased with the (cute!) poster he just painted, and danny comes thru the wall and spills paint on his nice letterman jacket. his anger is justified maybe 65% of the time so far...(not the way he handles it, but STILL.) at least lancer is stepping in!! and them making a silly little bet was...cute?? until dash pulled out his GROSS UNDERWEAR AND SAID DANNY WOULD HAVE TO EAT THEM???? WHAT THE FUCK MAN. TUCKER WAS SO RIGHT ITS FUCKING WEIRD TO CARRY THOSE AROUND EWWW. THIS KID IS UNWELL. lancer was right, his animatronic setup was SUPER IMPRESSIVE?? hes actually pretty creative. danny meanwhile is stealing the fright knight's design...I hope dash is taking art classes or smth with his sports

-fright knight is the most bestest ghost so far i LOVE THAT DESIGN. I am biased towards knights, and characters with swords, but he fucks so severely. and should sue danny for copyright infringement for stealing his design for his haunted house. if some 14 yr old broke into MY house and stole MY sword, id also be pissed. his evil winged unicorn rules too with its FANGS. and he just CAN SHOVE THE PORTAL OPEN WITH HIS HANDS??? is he the strongest ghost weve seen so far? idk but hes my fav. SOUL SHREDDER IS SUCH A COOL SWORD NAME TOO. ANY NAMED SWORD ALSO FUCKS. 'flaming bedsheets of DEATH' funny king. ALSO he was polite to dash and tucker when just asking for directions and telling tucker 'oh maybe, just a suggestion, maybe be nicer to me and be more respectful :)' I LOOOVE HIM.

-I noticed this in the Ember ep, but jazz has an electric guitar in her room!! talent musical queen!! its cool to see hobbies just in the bg.

-fright knight's murder castle reminds me of the booby trapped murder castle in zexal!! another supposedly 'for kids' show with murder/trap castles! we love that. if you are a dp fan reading this, give yugioh zexal a try. its also got 13-14 year old protags and involves (alien) ghosts. the cardgame is just a vessel for the plot, which is really good. (I just want more people to watch my fav yugioh, man)

-danny. with a SWORD.

-danny doesnt NEED TO WIN this contest, dash didnt STEAL HIS DESIGNS AND STEAL A SWORD. he also got excited to hear lancer got sent to a dimension with his worst fears too just so he could win the contest? DANNY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!! BRO MAYBE YOURE 14 AND HAVENT FULLY DEVOLPED YOUR WHOLE BRAIN YET, BUT...THATS FUCKED. this kid casually says the most deranged things, I do worry for my spooky son. once again, therapy needed. that judo toss was great tho. I wonder if he actually did pick up some martial arts stuff from his mom?

-danny can fly 112 mph!!! thats so fast! I love the lil montage of him and his friends testing his abilities and stuff, very cute and a good way to showcase what he can do by now and how much more proficient he's gotten from ep 1!!! I'm sure he's going to get more abilities :)

-im glad...maddie's at least TRYING this ep. I do feel for her because her husband is a man baby. but the fact it took 16 episodes to get a kinda semblance of any kind of real concern or attempts at bonding. hmm. jack's 'BACK OFF SHES A MINOR' @ the ghost trying to attack jazz. also was very funny. and him wanting to make an action figure of her? are the parents redeeming themselves to me? slightly. they gotta Work Harder

-THE GHOST. IS FLYING. THE PLANE.

-fenton machete. but she doesnt carry a PHONE??? ???

-I mean I expected vlad when you namedrop him earlier in the ep, and also the title card picture, and dalv corp being fucking vlad backwards. but seeing him just pull up on a golf cart made me bust out laughing. WITH the gift baskets prepared. why wouldnt you at least be suspicious. also, if he wants danny to be his lil sonboy, why is he so fucking malicious?? dude you are going about this in such a bad way. stop it. get some help.

-maddie not even hesitating to drag danny out. fucking good. danny is so right, go on the internet to date. get a cat. how do you spend...how many years?? has it been since college?? at least 20, right, since the parents/vlad are in their 40s? hung up on ONE girl. my god, man. incel drama queen. her kung fu IS impressive, but dude. 'we both know hes a creep' SO right. it sucks but they do need a phone and shit being in the middle of NOWHERE. also, just stealing his helicopter was great. <3

-'you must be exhausted carrying the weight of that mistake you made years ago' 'well we all make mistakes. maybe I'll make one now!' WHY DID THIS EXHCHANGE SEND ME. AND VLAD WITH THE BREATH SPRAY EWWW BITCH. 'OLD BAIT BREATH' SOO RIGHT. both danny and his mom playing him HAHAH hes so dumb. or rather, I think he thinks with his emotions too too much and is...actually pretty gullible? lmao he believed danny was ready to give in SO fast. (which is sad hes that hopeful, like you have SO MUCH MONEY YOU COULD EASILY GET ANOTHER GIRL WHO HAS A KID. AND WOULD WANT TO BE WITH YOU AND BE SUPPORTED. GET OVER THIS (1) WOMAN ALREADY IM GETTING SECONDHAND EMBARRASSMENT AAAAH)

-GHOST BEAR GHOST BEAR GHOST BEAR. it was also in the title card, but I still got very excited. we love bears here

-SAM'S BAT SWIMSUIT COVERUP!!! her outfits are simply iconic.

-'i'd tell you to go to the mens room, but I don't think you qualify' top paulina transphobic moments. :( and him wearing a tanktop to the swim park? hmmm! (actually I think she was overshadowed by then, so, KITTY top 10 transphobic moments??)

-kitty just piloting paulina around makes me feel SO bad tho, paulina's gonna wake up and be like 'wtf do you mean I was dating this rando' like youre leading danny on to make johnny jealous, and also just POSSESSING POOR PAULINA. dude take your relationship problems ELSEWHERE. last time we saw them, they seemed like such a cute couple!! wtf johnny!! I mean, she sucks for trying to make him jealous, he sucks for looking at other girls...maybe they need a break, but Not Like This. or, you know, just. better communication...

-and the A-listers having a full packet and a stamp system. who organizes this. kwan fucking owning being the new danny though, this is hysterical. THE TUCKER/KWAN FLOWER FIELD TWIRL. UNIRONICALLY ADORABLE. and him giving it his all for the poetry slam. bless his HEARTTTT.

-Star owns. actually, all of the extra characters are shining this ep and I love it.

-INVISO-BILL??? NOOOO THEY DID HIM SOO DIRTY. DANNY SWEETIE IM SO SORRY.

-johnny and danny bein friends and staging a fake fight (which danny takes too seriously, once again this child has aggression he NEEDS TO WORK OUT) I hope these three stay friends, I said it before but danny needs more friendly ghosts to hang with.

-at this point, Danny's ghost enemies are a lot like, I dunno, batman's rouge gallery is the first thing that comes to mind. they all have their own gimmick and unique designs, but most of them are easy to beat after learning the Moral Lesson. I still get excited when any of them show up again, though. 18 is another valerie episode!!!! :D skulker really said you two will get along if I have to handcuff you together <3 and the gym teacher really said, youre married now, have a flour baby! ngl, I'm not really watching this show for the shipping stuff (which I am very scared to look at the fandom for after I finish this watch through- I feel like there's probably discourse/arguing about ships...) but. I'm gonna put my opinion out there. valerie/danny > sam/danny. maybe I just really love the enemies to lovers trope. And the secret identity stuff adds Extra Flavor.

-SKULKER JUST HAVING THE BOX GHOST AND DANGLING HIM BY A STRING. HILARIOUS. and him watching them with binoculars and making his silly little commentary. AND MAKING THE SACK BABY CRY. LMAO. THIS DUDE IS A BABY KIDNAPPER. skulker is super fun

-danny, you just...collapsed the water tower. and then attacked the nasty burger machine...mascot thingy...out of anger..I KEEP SAYING HE'S GOT ANGER ISSUES BUT. HE REALLY NEEDS A LESSON IN MANAGING COLLATERAL DAMAGE!!! So does valerie!! They're both pretty focused on each other. I mean it's good of Danny to say he's trying to make sure PEOPLE don't get hurt, but... (I mean I guess it's not something 14 year olds WOULD worry about, but as an adult im like, who's going to fix that? how much money will that take??)

-TUCKER MAKING BANK. and sam and tucker being super emotionally attached to their flour baby and being pretty good parents. that's cute...also him just straight kissing her and being like. WAIT. O_O JDSKAFHD. his mom baking them into cookies was the funniest possible result. tbh I dont feel like this is on tucker, if anything the other kid's shouldve been more responsible! He was just taking an opportunity to get that $$ which I respect

-Danny being more understanding of Valerie's situation in the end (helping her at her job, too, and trying to keep that a secret for her!!!) And seeing them work together this ep, and also her letting phantom get her out of the ghost zone...was very sweet. LOVE that. more valerie eps pls

-me when I realize vlad's big stupid house exploded because of his own carelessness with changing the ghost portal ectofiltrator or whatever: *pointing and laughing*

-me when I realize it means he's gonna go make danny's life hell for it somehow: >:(

-SCOOBY PARODY!!! I feel like there's gotta be some scooby doo/danny phantom crossover stuff, right? also, 'guys in white' men in black wishes

-'oh, that's right! dad married the love of your life! you're bitter and alone!' DANNNNNYY GET HIS ASS ONCE AGAIN WE ARE POINTING AND LAUGHING AT VLAD

-'jack, you captured the ghost boy!!' UMM. he did nothing <3 'we have a weapon's vault??' YOU HAVE A WEAPONS VAULT??? and jack didnt put a handle on the inside. of fucking course he didnt! why would you leave that to your son!! or expect him to clean YOUR LAB when its where you work with probably dangerous chemicals and weapons and hes 14!! give him normal chores, like, I dunno, vacuuming, laundry, dishes...CMON. I hate it here. But I'm glad Jack is more chill about danny while he's a ghost, and willing to work with him for this ep. AND. I DID ENJOY JACK PUNCHING VLAD IN THE FACE. AND GENERALLY JUST OWNING HIM. the ghost punchy fists are actually amazing. like yeah, just punch a ghost in the face. that rules.

-ep 20 opens with the coolest fucking ghost lady design. her tattoos can come off and fight. MA'AM. I like ur nose ring and your cape maam hello 👉👈😳

-sam's grandma is hilarious and the most valid member of her family and I love her. thats my grandma now. and tucker covering for sam by dressing as her. thats true friendship <3 also skipping school to go to a goth circus. just bestie things! sam's parents are haters but for all the wrong reasons.

-'my family has controlled ghosts with this for generations!' WAIT. WAIT FREAKSHOW /ISNT/ A GHOST? I didn't expect that...he's just a fucked up guy controlling ghosts? anyway watching danny shoot at police cars and rob banks while mind controlled. its like, the most stereotypical 'bad' things lmao. (tbh an evil ghost circus troupe is a sick concept)

this gives off big deviantart emo edit vibes

(I'm going to assume evil circus reaper danny has a lot of fan content. people love an edgy au, except this one is canon (even tho its via mind control...having the protag go evil otherwise might be hard, I guess?) but au where he stays with the troupe...that has to exist, right?)

ANYWAY. excited to start s2!! lowkey surprised by how many notes some of these posts have gotten. I've gone back and tagged them all with 'dp thoughts' so they're easier to find on my blog! ^^ and I will probably possibly do (more) fanart on my art blog after I finish the watch of the whole show, so like. @sanchoyodraws follow my art blog :)

#sanchoyorambles #danny phantom #dp thoughts

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irandomblogfulb · 3 years

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FATE: What happens when you get a bunch of middle aged white guys to adapt a cartoon for girls

Well, I just went through 6 hours of fate and I have a lot of opinions on it. Yeah, this is going to be long (slightly under 3k words) so putting it under read more and obvious spoilers.

PSA before delving right in:

1) Yes, I will be comparing to the original. Any comparisons are not through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. There are parts here and there that I genuinely think were done better in the cartoon on a writing standpoint.

2) This is purely my opinion and overall negative. Don't like it? Don't read. I'm all up for discussion but I don't want another person crying to me about how I “ruined” their experience of the show.

3) If you like Fate then good for you. This isn’t me bashing people who like it.

I've spit it up into sub sections just for my own convince.

1. The problem with the 'I'm not like other girls' trope

This pertains to the entire Bloom-Sky-Stella love triangle. I wasn't as pressed about it compared to other winxers (and I loved Stella's and Brandon's relationship on my rewatch). In fact, I was okay with it. But then I sat down and watched the show and there's a lot of underlying problems with the love triangle. Particularly pitting Bloom and Stella against each other for Sky's affection.

Now this part of the love triangle I already didn't like. Correct me if I'm wrong, since I dropped the OG Winx after season 5 but the Winx while they did have their conflicts and arguments, never fought over a boy. I really appreciated that from the cartoon so seeing that live action would fall into that trap – I was mildly annoyed at that. Then it hit me. It's Bloom and Stella.

The seemingly ordinary girl vs the pristine princess of Solaria. If the title didn't give it away, you should get the point by now. Others have already called it by now but the "I'm not like other girl's" trope in itself, while seemingly feminist is actually misogynist. Saying the more masculine type of girl is better than the feminine is inherently misogynist. Stella, the prime princess, girly and feminine, is villainized by the love triangle. Sky's and Stella's relationship is toxic and Stella's overt co-dependence and jealousy are already big fat red signs - but Sky's and Bloom's relationship is built on how she's "different". Bloom isn't like Stella, she's "real".

2. Am I supposed to like Riven?

As the title puts it, wtf am I supposed to feel about Riven. Is he supposed to be a good guy? Do I root for him? Is he morally ambiguous? Because holy shit compared to OG!Riven, this guy is diabolical and much much worse! OG!Riven is an asshole and he teams up with the trix but his arc was very simple and easy to understand. He joins the bad guys, distances himself from the good guys, the trix betray his ass, he self-reflects in the dungeon - escapes and redeems himself. Net!Riven is so bad to the point where you can't redeem him and the writers don't even try. Freddie Thorp is good in his role. (however, he definitely doesn't pass for a 17-year-old. He's 26 and it shows) and he actually makes the cringe dialogue work. But he's way too diabolical and downright predatory. The scene where he forces Dane to gulp down his spiked drink - it’s worse seeing it than reading it. That grossed me out more than the gore.

What makes it worse, nobody properly calls him out. Beatrix kinda does on his homophobia – “Homophobic bashing by GIF” - and Sky does chastise him, but they still tolerate him. It is kinda funny in a way Sky has a whole ass arc about how he's enabling Stella's problematic behaviour by still dating her after she blinded her friend but doesn't realize he's doing the same for Riven.

The only person that really puts her foot down with Riven is Terra and nobody takes her seriously about anything she says.

Everyone is very laissez-faire around him and that's not how you respond to your friend being problematic. (Hey, kinda like the other girls sans Aisha are with Bloom!) Everyone surrounding Riven is so disgusting and the notion of him supposedly being a good guy is very hard to buy into. His whole relationship with Dane has a section of it’s own because there’s just a lot to unpack.

3. Stella I am so sorry

I'm also in the majority hating how they've tarnished Stella. Basically, they turned her into the stereotypical rich bully with mommy issues.

I get that Stella has an abusive mom but that’s no excuse to be a total bitch to her roommates. And no, her roommates shouldn't accept her back with open arms. And she doesn't even redeem herself - the girls just accept her back after her mom pulls her from Alfea.

And this is also another issue with the writing were the characters suddenly just change their opinions on a whim. Suddenly Stella likes the winx, suddenly Terra misses Stella even though having that girl literally gives her anxiety. Suddenly Aisha's on Bloom's side in the end.

This isn't me simping for the cartoon out of nostalgia. I was mostly okay with the idea of Stella and Sky hooking up. But Looking at it from a creative standpoint - looking at the source material, and the many paths you can take this character, the best thing Brian Young and co. can think of for her was turning her into the stereotypical rich bully that we've seen time and time again? No deconstruction no meta take, it's played out exactly how you’d expect it.

Again, this isn't me simping for the show. Purely from a creative standpoint Stella was such a major let down. There's so much to the character and Brian Young took the easiest, saturated path.

4. That one scene with Bloom's parents

You know the one. Mike unhinges Bloom's bedroom doors and Vanessa cusses out and insults her child like a petty teen bully. Forgetting how utterly cringey that scene was, you can't have her mom go batshit insane on her child, then act like she's this loving parent that cares so deeply about her daughter. Screw that! Vanessa deserved those 3rd degree burns! She invaded her daughter's privacy. Bloom didn't even do anything wrong!

I can't buy into this narrative of Vanessa and Mike being loving parents when they do something like that. Seriously who thought that was okay?

5. Pity Parties for everyone.

I already discussed this in Stella’s section but I don’t like the “it’s okay for me be a shitty person because my life sucks :)” narrative Fate tries to pull. They did it with Stella, Bloom, Riven.

What I liked about the first season of Winx Club is Bloom’s arc and her character as a whole. Because while she went through shit, from the Trix, to finding out she was adopted, her existential crisis, not feeling like she belonged, losing the dragon flame, she went through a lot. She didn’t throw a pity party. She didn’t whine, bitch and complain. She allowed herself to feel upset, took it as it is and tried to make lemonade out of lemons. And I respect that.

Net!Bloom is agrevating. She does some dumb, reckless stuff but it’s excused because she’s the protagonist? She let the war criminal out, the school gets taken over by the bad guys because of Bloom. Faragonda fucking dies because she let the war criminal out! The burned ones attacked the school because she let the war criminal out!!! But no, Aisha’s villainized for calling Bloom out because Bloom’s existential crisis is more important then anything else.

Getting to Sky, he isn’t as bad as the others. He doesn’t become a shitty person because of his problems. (Though lowkey flirting with Bloom while he hooks up with Stella is uh not good.) But he does come across incredibly whiny. Because of the cringey dialogue and the unnecessary swearing I can’t take his speech on opening up to Bloom seriously. I laughed throughout the whole thing and Bloom leaving his unconscious body there was the icing on the cake.

One of the few characters that deserved a pity party is Terra. She’s very much like OG!Bloom in a way. She is bullied by Dane and Riven, has body insecurities, anxiety, nobody listens to her and at most only tolerates her. Despite all the crap that is thrown her way she still reminds humble, kind, and respectful. And she is one of the few characters that deserves more support than what she got out of the season.

5. Bloom, Aisha, Tokenism and their awful relationship

I’m going to be upfront, their relationship sucks. The core of their dynamic is what Aisha can do for Bloom. It’s very one-sided. Bloom only goes to Aisha to help solve her problems, which Aisha gladly does – but when Aisha disagrees with Bloom or says something Bloom doesn’t like, Bloom suddenly goes off and Aisha’s made to be the bad guy. Even though she’s right? And Aisha has her own problems as well, shown to also struggle with her powers. But nope, that’s pushed to the back burner because Bloom needs help.

I am all for creative freedom. I can stomach Stella x actual Sky. I can stomach turning Stella into a rich mean girl. I can stomach the dark academia aesthetic but what Brian Young and co. did to Aisha is just plain racist. Screw the “it’s an adaptation” excuse. Turning this character who had a rich storyline and was a princess into a white girl’s magical negro who fixes all her problems is racist and by definition tokenism. And by whitewashing the other two characters of color, making Aisha the only poc in the group – that’s the worst thing you can do to her.

And frankly we need more black princesses on screen.

6. Dane and the homophobia of the show

Towards the show’s climax it’s revealed Dane is helping Beatrix because she accepts he’s “different”. Not only does this go back to my pity party rant but like bruh,

1) Beatrix never really did anything for Dane? She hung out and smoked with him a bit, but that’s all. You’re telling me Terra wouldn’t accept Dane? Beatrix never helped him and he never really opened up to her about his struggles.

2) Nobody else, not even background characters bully or harass Dane for being “different”. It’s only Riven, the guy he’s crushing on. The whole falling in love with the bad boy/abuser trope is bad in a hetero relationship and that still stands for a gay one. And I know damn well if Dane was a woman half of the shit Riven did to Dane wouldn’t slide.

It makes no sense for Dane to side with the bad guys when Riven’s the one bullying him and Beatrix is complacent in the bullying. Oh, and having your second black* character who’s also lgbt+/potentially questioning be a villain? Not good.

I’m all for gay and poly rep, but not like this. If Stella and Sky’s toxic relationship is going to be called out for what it is, why not Dane’s?

*Idk if Theo Graham is light-skinned black or biracial so I’ll just refer to him as black.

7. The plot

It’s very predictable. Personally, wasn’t fond of the ‘twist of a twist of a twist’ style of writing. The story tries to be nuanced and deep but it’s not. Common sense is treated like a big revelation. Not trusting the war criminal you barely know isn’t as big of a take that the writers try to make it out to be.

8. Everything else

· Beatrix is fine. No Icy but did like the gothic bookworm aesthetic.

· Sam is just there to be Musa’s love interest and provide some dumb drama between Musa and Terra. I thought they’d go the Edward/Bella root – Musa’s drawn to Sam because she can’t sense his emotions for some reason. Nope, they just get together for the obligatory make out sessions. Don’t care much for the relationship or the character.

· Since the powers are all elemental shouldn’t there be classes purely for an elemental? Classes purely for fire fairies, etc?

· Musa’s powers are confusing. If she has no control over them and they are “always on”, shouldn’t her eyes constantly be glowing purple? Very wishy washy. Sometimes they overwhelm her and other times she has complete control. Her character is just there for plot stuff.

· Terra is one of the better characters but can’t enjoy her knowing about the whitewashing. Why can’t we have a plus sized character just exist and not have body issues?

· Sky doesn’t feel like a prince. Characters treat him like his dad is a war hero and not the King of Eraklyon. There was a point where I thought I misheard and thought his dad was just a war hero and not a king.

· Why try to justify Rosalind’s war crime if she’s going to be the big bad anyways?

· The way the characters treat death/act around death is very weird. Musa and Terra see a pile of dead bodies and they’re unreasonable calm. Especially Bloom an “ordinary teenage girl from earth”, reacts very nonchalant when death and war crimes are brought up. Doesn’t help the show tries to push this “they’re kids fighting a war” narrative.

· Can’t buy into the girls’ friendship. The Aisha/Bloom dynamic is centred on what Aisha can do for Bloom. Bloom only cares about herself and only goes to her friends to help with her problems. Most of Musa’s and Terra’s interaction centre around Sam. Stella didn’t care for the girls until her mom showed up and pulled a 180. The girls were quick to turn on Aisha when she sided with the adults.

· I have no problem with technology existing but why do they have Instagram, Tiktok and Tumblr? The otherworld is a completely separated from Earth, why do they have the same technology?

9. Brian Young, what do you mean by mature?

I grew up on the 4kids dub before transitioning to the Nick dub for season 4 and 5 then dropping the cartoon for good. So naturally on my rewatch of the cartoon I decided to go watch the RAI dub since I heard it’s more accurate and 4Kids are infamous for their horrid localisations straying too much to the source material. Upon finishing season 1 and currently watching season 2, a few things took me by surprise. For one, the cartoon is surprisingly dark. The schools are at war with the Trix and their army of Darkness, Sky almost dies in Season 2, Riven almost dies and the Trix thinks he suicided, it’s heavily implied in Season 2 Darkar murdered some of the pixies, the paedophilic undertones of Bloom and Avalon’s relationship, the list goes on.

When the interview with Brian Young came out, he said Fate would be a mature take on the cartoon. And I wondered, what did he meant by mature? Was he going to delve deeper into the darker aspects of the show, or did he mean he was going to have the girls swear and have sex? Watching Fate, I found my answer.

If you take out the gore, swearing, drug and alcohol usage from the live action, the maturity is on par with the RAI dub. The difference is in the presentation. This is what sucks about the mentality surrounding live action remakes. Because the OG!Winx was colourful with glittery transformations , was super girly and overall had a positive upbeat tone (not forgetting 2D animated) - it can’t be taken seriously. You have to strip all that, the colour, the kindness, the femininity in order to be deemed mature.

10. Wrapping up

I went into Fate expecting the worst and honestly, it wasn’t that bad. There were things I liked about it. The show looks pretty, and I did like what they were trying to do with Sky’s arc. The actors did what they could with the material. Freddie Thorp made the cringe dialogue work and Abigail Cowen proves she can carry a show as the lead.

Fate is your generic, YA, dark academia show. It follows all the tropes of the YA genre to a T. If that’s your niche, then you’ll love Fate and I’m not bashing anyone who liked it.

For me, as a creative, it doesn’t capitalise on the strengths of the source material. I’m not asking for Winx Club again, as I’ve reiterated, I’m all for creative freedom. But Brian Young, Iginio Straffi, whoever worked on this – they could’ve created something new, innovative, something that stood out from the hordes of other YA shows. They had good material in their hands! But what I got - I’ve seen before, and I’ve seen it done better. That’s a major disappointment.

As a winx club fan, don’t bother watching this. It’s a very diluted version of the Winx. In trying to capture the interest of the adult fans who grew up with the franchise – Iginio showed how out of touch he is if he thinks this is what they wanted.

#fate the winx saga #netwinx #back on my winx club bs #long post #this took me like 4 days to write

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the-overgrowth · 3 years

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Please don't read this ask as combative, I'm just genuinely curious. How do you justify the age difference between Sidra and Val? I know you said Val is technically a teenager/young adult in fae years but isn't that the same justification a lot of immortal/mortal pairings use? (Like Twilight with Edward being "frozen" at 17.) The fact is that Val's lived literally 200+ years more than her and that has to color the experience divide, right? Is there a way authors CAN make these age gaps work?

No worries! I think it’s a good question and gives me an opportunity to clarify some stuff! I should preface this by saying that it’s totally ok if people aren’t comfy with the “young woman paired with ancient magical dude” trope that’s common in fantasy nowadays. It’s not for everyone and that’s fine. I’ve tried to make my take on it more morally palatable, but if it doesn’t work you, then it doesn’t work for you.

Putting this under a cut because it got long, oops.

Val isn’t “frozen,” he literally ages 10 times slower than Sidra, including mentally and emotionally. 50-year-old fae are the equivalent of 5-year-old children. Val being 223 is basically him being in his early twenties, barely mature enough by fae standards to be considered an adult. So while Val has been an adult longer than Sidra has been alive, from her perspective, Val has also been an official “adult” for like, 2-3 years, from his perspective. He also doesn’t see Sidra as being 2 years old, he sees her as being similar to himself in age, as a young adult. In fact, it fucks him up a little that she’s a fully grown person when she’s the same technical “age” as a toddler. The same way it fucks Sidra up that he’s still alive. He can’t wrap his head around how “quick” humans are. To him, growing a mind and a body and a personality takes centuries and she did it in two decades? Weird. Gross.

I should also mention that while yes, technically the sheer amount of stuff he’s seen is more than what Sidra has, the fae also perceive time differently than humans as a result of their immortality. So he doesn’t necessarily retain all of the stuff he’s lived through, or it doesn’t affect him the same way it might affect a young developing human.

However, this is all details compared to what I think is the most important thing in cases like these: framing.

In the case of Twilight, the framing emphasizes how Edward is mature and has been through high school and college multiple times, how he knows and understands more than Bella. His age is written as adding to his power, his allure. He doesn’t consider himself a teenager, and neither do his vampire peers. In every way but physical, he’s an ancient adult. It’s supposed to be intriguing that an older, intelligent and beautiful man would find a plain teenager attractive, and his age is used to reinforce his power and dominance.

If Edward perpetually had the mind of an actual 17-year-old instead of being “physically” 17 and mentally 109 or however old he is, I think Twilight would have the opposite problem of Bella eventually dating a teenager as she grows older unless she turns into a vampire. That’s sort of touched on in the books but it doesn’t go much further beyond “I will be a wrinkly old woman and you’ll be hot forever!” because, again, Edward already had Bella beat in the “life experience” department, and would still have that over her even as she grew older.

In the case of ACOTAR, it’s a similar thing. I don’t recall if it’s ever explained how the fae mature, but I do know that Rhys has been “waiting” for Feyre before she was even born? Like, the mating bond paired him up with a human infant at some point? And he has to wait for her to become an adult before they can boink? Same with Jacob and Renesmee. That’s just straight up magical grooming, fam. These men are adults for an extremely long time while they wait for their younger partner to catch up and become legal, often not even letting her live a life independently before they marry and have babies. These men become their partners’ lives.

In my case, Val’s age is framed against a backdrop of much older fae who patronize, belittle and insult him because he’s a young man poking his fingers into things that he’s too naïve to understand, according to them. This on its own doesn’t automatically solve the age difference, but he’s not framed as having power over Sidra, he’s not considered one of the oldest and most powerful fae, he’s not held up by the narrative as an older man who somehow, against his better judgment, is lusting over someone much younger than him because she’s just so mature and full of life and special. His age isn’t held up as a mark of experience and maturity and power. It’s just a thing that marks him as different from Sidra, on a magical worldbuilding level.

The younger party is also important. Are they inexperienced and naïve? Are they a young sheltered teenager, only now entering their first ever romantic/sexual relationship? Are they entering this relationship without any prior knowledge of who they are and what they want from life and a relationship with this person? Is this adult their first and only entry point to adult life in general? (Not saying you need to have multiple partners before you can find “The One” or anything, but having a frame of reference and knowing what you want out of life and the relationship is important IMO.)

Sidra doesn’t see Val as superior to her, she doesn’t think he’s above her and that she doesn’t “deserve him” or that he’s too good and cool for her, that she’s somehow not enough because she’s younger. She sees him as an equal, which makes any attempt at pulling the age/experience card pretty meaningless, because she doesn’t believe he knows what’s best in any given situation just because of his age. She doesn’t see him as an authority on most things and doesn’t consider herself below him in most things, either. She has already built a solid understanding of who she is and what she wants (or doesn’t want, at least). One of the first things that happens in the book is her rejecting a man because she realizes that she doesn’t want for herself what he wants for her.

And while yes, Val does eventually become a large part of her life and helps her figure out what she wants and needs and what she wants to become, she does the same thing for him. He isn’t a jaded old man taken with a pretty young thing who brings light back into his life or some other cishet-white-man nonsense, he’s young and stupid too and she helps him realize what he wants and who he wants to be. And they don’t do this on purpose to each other, it just happens through their interactions. Even if it were one-sided Val simply doesn’t have the maturity and experience to essentially “groom” Sidra into anything. Plus, they don’t get married and have children at the end (spoilers, I guess). They’re not bound to each other the same way many YA fantasy books often “bind” their young protags to their much older love interests (mating bonds, marriage, kids etc). Sidra still has the choice and ability to leave him whenever she likes and she’s fully aware of it.

That being said, my solution isn’t perfect and tbh I don’t think there is one? But this is fantasy, mortal-immortal pairings will always have weird dynamics because they’re not real and everyone makes up their own reference for how they should or shouldn’t work. Things like these will be subjective, and as long as the characters involved are adults, are making informed decisions and don’t have significant power imbalances because of their age difference, I think it can work!

(The target demographic is also very important I think. Impressionable teens shouldn’t read things that make adult men attractive or desirable. My target demographic is a bit older than that and I hope most of my future readers will have enough sense and independent thinking to know not to imitate fiction. Plus, again, I’m not playing on or emphasizing the typical age gap power dynamic.)

Hope this answered your question!

#long post #worldbuilding #oc: sidra #oc: val #sorry this got rambly #Anonymous

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lillupon · 3 years

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So, I've got a very long rant/opinion here and Idk really know how to say this without coming off kinda bad but I'm gonna say it anyways. I agree with the fact that the seventeen tag has been kinda dry lately on most fanfic places, but it's really only in the smut area. It's the sane way with other groups too I feel like. All of the nice little innocent tags are boomin to this day and thats completely fine. I think the smut tag is dry tho bc lately I feel like a few social issues (like sexualizing people and disrespecting them and their identity) have crossed over into kpop and have been ?blown out of proportion? Lately there's been a rampage of people who like to say that writing smut about someone is disgusting and is dehumanizing because people want to assume that it would make the idols uncomfortable which could equate to some morality issues on how you are reducing someone only to their body without their consent and a bunch of stuff like that. It kind of pisses me off bc this is fiction. About grown adults. Clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life. I think a shit ton is wrong with the world we currently live in, and deciding to come after something that isn't even real bothers me. Like what does that actually accomplish. But yeah, I think thats a reason why smut has been dying down. I mean, on youtube almost every video about unpopular opinions, or things they dont like about kpop will include something about shipping idols in fanfics. And then everyone in the comment section will talk about how its all fine and dandy in moderation, but once people start writing smut it's crossing the idols personal boundaries. It's something I've been seeing a lot more often and I think people who are interested in writing smut are being turned away from it bc we've gotten to a point where people are being called disgusting for having fantasies.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending in this Ask.

I want to preface this by saying: when I write or talk about Mingyu and Wonwoo fucking on my blog, it is a fantasy. I am not speculating about what the real Mingyu and Wonwoo might be like in bed. I am imagining the versions of Mingyu and Wonwoo that I have created in my head, that exist only in my stories. None of it is real. I understand that this can be a blurry boundary for some people. But for me, the separation between fantasy and reality is well-defined. Now, on to your Ask!

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. You’ve also touched on many of the issues I have been struggling with myself as of late. It’s difficult to argue about morals since everyone has a different set of values, as well as different comfort levels. Some people think real person fiction (RPF) is a gross invasion of privacy. Others are fine with it. And others don’t care one way or another. There is no single answer; I can only offer my answer. Which means, of course, people are welcome to disagree with it, or parts of it.

In this essay (LOL But forreal: this is an essay), I will be sharing my experience in the k-pop fanfic community from 2014 to present, the etiquette I personally abide by as a reader and writer of RPF, as well as my stance on RPF in general.

I started reading and posting fanfics back in 2014/2015 on a website called AsianFanfics (AFF). Obviously, no one on that site had a problem with RPF, since AFF is a platform made specifically for sharing stories about Asian celebrities. For many years, I read and enjoyed RPF with zero guilt. I scribbled away by myself in my own corner of fandom and curated my own content. I didn’t interact much with other fans, readers, or writers. I didn’t have a Twitter, and I only used tumblr to reblog memes. As a result, I’ve been able to avoid a lot of anti-shipping discourse, as well as purity and cancel culture. I had no idea there were so many negative opinions about RPF. It wasn’t until I became active on the subreddit r/Fanfiction last year that I learned about all the discourse surrounding RPF.

This newfound ‘awareness’ does make me feel guilty at times—but only because after mulling this over, I still don’t think this is something to feel guilty about.

Here’s what I remember, first and foremost, when I create and consume RPF: fanfics and my favourite ships are fictional, and fiction is fantasy. This is basic etiquette when it comes to RPF, and most people in the k-pop fandom understand this. Delusional fans exist, of course, but they are not representative of the entire k-pop community.

Another point of etiquette is to keep fanfics within fandom spaces. I would never push my fics into celebrities’ faces, or go around claiming that my fanfics are accurate representations of a k-idol’s life or personality, in any way, shape, or form. I would also discourage directing ship-related questions to official accounts, or bringing them up during fansigns or other face-to-face interactions; I believe that in these instances, shipping does have the potential to strain real-life relationships.

So with basic etiquette out of the way, let me share my approach to RPF in general.

As much as we like to think we know our favourite celebrities, we really don’t. All we see is their public persona. And this public persona is intentionally controlled, managed, and curated by a team of people: directors, tabloids, editors, makeup artists, publicists, etc. How “real” are these celebrities? We are so distanced from them that they may as well be fictional.

I draw from the public persona that idols project, and I work them into my own writing. But at the end of the day, these personalities are my own interpretation. My interpretation is probably nothing like an idol’s actual personality. I just use the “public persona/character” that idols portray as inspiration for my own stories, which are set in wildly different universes.

More than anything, I think of k-pop idols as “actors” in my fic. You know how when you write an original novel, you scroll through Google images, looking for the perfect person to portray your original character? RPF is literally that, except you might build upon pre-existing dynamics and personalities.

When it comes to explicit fanfiction, two main concerns are prevalent: one of consent, and one of sexualisation.

If we argue against explicit RPF due to lack of consent, we should be willing to apply the same lens to all explicit works. How do we know that the creator of a movie, book, series, etc., is okay with us using their characters in our stories, explicit or not? We don’t. Perhaps some creators encourage fanfiction, but don’t want their lovingly crafted characters engaging in sexual acts or experiencing trauma. We just don’t know. I feel this line is even more blurred when we talk about characters from movies or TV series.

Let’s take Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, as portrayed by Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan, from the Captain America movies as an example. I am willing to bet that when people consume and create explicit fanfiction about Steve and Bucky, they are imagining Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan in their heads. I doubt many people are imagining the 2D cartoon versions of Steve and Bucky, even though they’re technically the exact same characters. Why? Well, it could be because movies are more readily and easily consumed than comics, and so people are unfamiliar with comic book Steve and Bucky. But it might also be because fans find Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan attractive. Is this really any different from RPF, where fic authors make up everything about a celebrity’s life?

When readers and writers of fanfic talk about how hot Steve Rogers or Bucky Barnes is, those comments are about Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan’s bodies. When reading explicit stories, fans are going to picture Chris and Sebastian’s bodies in their head, doing sexual things. Can we say, “Well, it’s not really you, Chris/Sebastian”, when in a way, it is?

The reality is, people are going to thirst over celebrities, regardless of whether or not explicit fanfiction exists. They’re going to post thirst tweets on Twitter. They’re going to talk to friends and strangers online about how hot [insert celebrity name here] is. They’re going to fantasize about dating and having sex with their favourite celebrity. Or, as it is in my case, they’re going to make up stories in their heads about their favourite idols dating and banging each other. People are going to do all of this without ‘getting consent’ from the celebrity. Cracking down upon and shaming writers of RPF isn’t going to change any of that.

To be honest, I’m not sure why people think it is disgusting to imagine sexual scenarios about real people. It is okay and normal to have these kinds of fantasies. I suppose the alternative is to fantasise about having sex with cartoon characters instead? It’s a very binary way of thinking to say that if you imagine/write real people in explicit scenarios, you are immediately sexualising, dehumanising, or objectifying them. There is more to dehumanisation than writing smut about our favourite celebrities. For one thing, you can love someone and appreciate all parts of them, and still want to fuck their brains out. And generally, fanfics come from a place of love—love that is not only sexual in nature.

Is it the sharing aspect inherent to fanfiction? The possibility that a celebrity might stumble upon explicit works about them? The chances are very low, I think, of the k-pop idols I enjoy writing about coming across my English fics. But I also believe in curating your own content, and that applies to celebrities too. Perhaps a celebrity should not go searching for fanfics about themselves. And of course, people should not show celebrities their fanfics, unless invited.

Another argument I hear against (explicit) RPF is, “How would you feel if someone wrote fanfiction about you?” First off, I don’t like this argument because there’s a difference between someone who decides to be a public figure versus someone who decides to remain a regular private citizen. Celebrities should and do know what they’re getting into when they choose their occupation. (This is not to say, “They are celebrities; sexualise them all you want because that’s what they signed up for.” Here, I am only acknowledging that people might have sexual fantasies about celebrities they are attracted to. Presumably, celebrities are cognizant of this.)

If someone (whose existence I am not even aware of, mind you) decides they want to write explicit fanfiction of me in some tiny corner of the Internet, I wouldn’t care so long as: (1) they don’t shove it into my face, and (2) they don’t harass me and ask invasive questions about my personal life and relationships. It’s not hurting me or negatively affecting my life, so it wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar. When fanfiction remains within its appropriate spaces, it is largely harmless.

Now, if a k-pop idol were to ask their fans to stop writing fanfiction about them, would I? Yes, I would. However, I can’t imagine that happening. Judging by the number of ‘sexy’ concepts, fanservice moments, and variety shows such as ‘We Got Married’, I am certain that k-pop idols realise they are the stars of many fantasies—some of which are explicit in nature. Considering the prevalence of shipping in the k-pop industry, I would argue that shipping is subtly encouraged.

It’s sad that so many talented writers are shamed out of fandom, or feel that k-pop cannot be the medium through which they tell their stories, or explore their sexuality, or cope with trauma, or simply have fun. Professional works and Hollywood love their RPF—readers and writers of fanfics should be able to, as well.

As you said Anon, “clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life” (this is a lovely sentence, by the way). The kind of person who dehumanises another and reduces them to a sexual object will do so some other way, if not via fanfiction. I don’t think the issue of fetishisation can be fixed simply by telling people not to write explicit RPF. In my experience, people who read and write RPF are more respectful and thoughtful about these things than the general public. We’ve all seen the general public say highly sexual things about celebrities in the media and to their faces, or tag celebrities in their thirst tweets. Are these things less invasive than fanfiction? Personally, I don’t think so. And in my opinion, there are more pressing and damaging issues in stan culture than fanfic.

In conclusion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with creating and consuming RPF, both explicit and non-explicit so long as we:

Remember we are writing fiction

Keep RPF within its appropriate space, and

Do not harass celebrities about their personal lives and relationships

RPF is not for everyone. There may be people who enjoy RPF, but draw the line at explicit stories. This is fine. Everyone has their own personal preferences. What is not fine, however, is attacking people for creating things you don’t like. I’m not sure what kind of moral crusade people are on and what they hope to achieve by shaming writers of RPF, explicit or otherwise. Ultimately, fic authors are writing a fantasy. It’s not real; no one is being hurt. I think it’s important for people to curate their own content, and AO3 makes it very easy to filter out explicit works and unwanted tags.

Maybe this is me trying to justify my own participation in explicit RPF—I don’t know. What I do know is that I love k-pop, and fandom is an important part of my media and entertainment experience. I adore the k-pop idols I write about, and I just want to imagine them being happy and getting lots of love and orgasms. Let a bitch be horny, goddamn…

Some bonus fun facts!

At the time I am writing this, on AO3:

26.2% of Stray Kids fanfics are rated M or E

26.3% of Seventeen fanfics are rated M or E

29.0% of Merlin fanfics are rated M or E

34.9% of Captain America (Movies) fanfics are rated M or E

40.1% of BTS fanfics are rated M or E ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Coincidentally, I saw this post on Reddit this morning: Can we have a RPF positivity post?

#asks #my writing #fic & fandom #I keep coming back to fiddle and add things to this answer #but I think I've said all I wanted to now...

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

Note

You're totally right. I literally cannot read "Jason finds out about Tarantula" fics anymore. I find the way they generally filter what's considered in fandom maybe Dick's biggest trauma, through the lens of " isn't Jay just so awesome for caring (even though Dick's always been such a dick to him)", rather that Dick's needs, pretty gross. And why does Jay's revenge on Tarantula usually matter more than Dick's feelings on the matter (like, Dick could have revenge himself if he wanted, you know?)?

This is DEFINITELY a thing and it bugs a ton.

Like, I get the projection element of using Jason killing Dick’s rapist to act out or process the revenge fantasy of wishing someone would do that for you with your rapist, for writers or readers for whom this is part of the catharsis, and so this isn’t like, a moral judgment of him for doing so, the problem is it never in ANY story has ANYTHING TO DO WITH DICK OR WHAT HE WANTS.

Never have I ever seen a single story about Tarantula or Mirage where Jason kills them after ASKING Dick if that’s what he wants, if that will help him, bring him closure or comfort or relief.

Its just Jason going off and doing his thing, and that’s 100% entirely about Jason, and that’s....annoying, in a fic and an issue that’s supposed to be about hurt/comfort for Dick for something that happened to him.

Like, if Jason was actually acting on Dick’s behalf and fulfilling his wishes, that’d be totally different, but there’s not a single thought ever spared about the fact that if Dick blamed himself for Tarantula killing Blockbuster and thought HE failed HER by not putting her on a better path, then how in the hell do you think he’s ACTUALLY going to feel about Jason then killing Tarantula, supposedly on his behalf?

I’ve talked extensively about how I think Dick has a lot more nuanced and complicated perspective on killing than most people assume of him, and I’m not refuting that here.....but even Dick being willing or tempted to kill someone who’s hurt him or taken someone from him like he was with Zucco and later with Two-Face and then with Joker.....like, this is not remotely interchangeable with how Dick might feel about killing being done in his name, and I don’t for a second believe that’s what he’d ever want from any of his siblings, and thus this would IMO only make things WORSE for his mental and emotional state, rather than bring him any sort of catharsis at all.

Like, its not even about the morality of killing itself even....there’s so many other factors such as Jason’s complicated history with Bruce on this very issue, and like, the last thing in the world Dick would want is to be the reason for even further conflict between Bruce and Jason because Jason killed someone on Dick’s behalf.....ESPECIALLY when its not even on Dick’s behalf because at no point, as I said, is Jason shown thinking through the thought process of ‘is this actually what Dick would want and would it make him feel better, or is this wholly about making myself feel better and venting my anger and aggression about my brother being hurt on the one who hurt him, regardless of how he’s going to feel about it if and when he finds out.’

Like, say what you will about Dick killing the Joker in Last Laugh, but there was never any illusions about him going that far and beating the Joker to death because he thought it would bring either Jason or Tim (who he thought at that point the Joker had killed too) back, nor did he ever during or in the aftermath express any kind of idea that he was doing it because its what they would want. Ironically of course, this ended up being exactly what Jason DID want, just not from Dick specifically, but the point is, this never came up as part of Dick’s thought process either during or after. It was always 100% clear that this event, that moment, was about Dick and his hurt and rage over the Joker taking away his loved ones, just like with Zucco it’d been about his hurt and rage over him taking his parents away and not at all because he was of the belief that his parents would actually want him to kill Zucco.

Even with Two-Face in R:YO, Dick being tempted to kill Two-Face was less about him having been hurt by Two-Face when he almost beat Dick to death....it really was about him holding Two-Face and that whole situation to blame for Bruce firing him and in Dick’s mind no longer needing or wanting him....he wanted to kill Two-Face not because of what had been DONE to him, but what he blamed Two-Face for having lost, what he felt he’d taken from him....even while knowing full well that this would in no way make things better or right with Bruce, and its the last thing Bruce would want Dick to do.

There is a difference between avenging and revenge, and one of the interesting things about Dick’s stance and history on killing has always been that it always ONLY comes up in the latter. Like, there’s never any point in Dick’s history where he views killing as a valid way to avenge a loved one......the times when he struggles with the desire to, its 100% about his wanting revenge on a personal level.

And that’s the honesty and directness I’m missing from so many Tarantula or Mirage fics these days. Its the disconnect, how Jason is framed and even celebrated as though he’s AVENGING his brother and acting on his behalf, justice for Dick being hurt by these people.....

But the reality is, there’s little to no thought or attention paid by Jason or the narrative as to what Dick’s ACTUAL wishes in this matter are, and what he actually wants and needs in order to be helped along in his recovery.

Its really just about Jason getting revenge for someone hurting someone he cares about and thus feeling hurt and pain by proxy......just twisted and made to look like something it’s not, by saying its FOR Dick even though its likely Dick would actually be worse off for knowing what Jason was doing/had done, as Dick’s guilt complex makes it all but inevitable that he’d now additionally blame himself for being the reason Jason felt he had to do that.....when ironically and obnoxiously, the reality is Jason did it in those stories because its what Jason wanted and what Jason felt HE needed to cope with his feelings and emotions about what had been done to his brother. It really ultimately has nothing to do with Dick, he’s just the excuse, but he also just so happens to 100% be someone who would shoulder the burden of guilt and blame and remorse for even just being the excuse for someone going to those extremes.

If a story is about Dick’s trauma and Dick’s recovery, leaving out Dick’s actual expressed wishes or Dick’s feelings about what other people do or want to do as a result of this is a huge, gaping, annoying as hell oversight.

And for the record, I’m trying to keep this general and not speak to specific fics because I’m aware that for many survivors, the act of projecting onto Dick and what he suffered there can and does mean that for some people, Jason’s actions there are viewed as almost actually being on behalf of the readers/writers who project themselves into Dick’s position in that narrative. I get that, and that’s why this issue is always going to be messy.

As with most things, my true gripe is the overwhelming SAMENESS of the takes on Tarantula/Mirage stories, and the fact that no room is hardly ever left for those who ironically are NOT projecting onto Dick so fully that they feel avenged by whatever Jason does here.....but rather who are simply relating to Dick and thus are actually just looking for the catharsis of him being able to seize back control over his own life and what happens to him and because of him, by the narrative prioritizing the other characters focusing on what HE wants and needs for HIS recovery rather than going off to enact revenge of their own.

Sorry not sorry, but I am always gonna be hardcore gung-ho about the fact that I think that stories that are ABOUT a specific character’s rape should always center and prioritize THEM and what THEY want and/or do, rather than just use them and what happened to them as a catalyst to then showcase someone else acting out a revenge fantasy in their name.

The desire to avenge a loved one, the desire for personal revenge against someone who hurt a loved one, and the desire to act as little as possible on your own personal feelings about what happened and instead be there to help enact whatever that hurt loved one says they want or need to help get better....

Each and every one of these desires has validity....the problem is, depending on the characters involved, they absolutely ARE at times mutually exclusive and not compatible, and thus not keeping a firm awareness on the distinction between these and which are the primary motivations for which characters, like.....it often brings these into direct conflict....but without a lot of writers and readers ever perceiving any conflict exists, because they’re completely centered on Jason’s actions and choices rather than Dick’s wants and needs, to the extent that in a lot of fics, the latter never even comes up for a mention.

And that’s the part that just will never work in my eyes. If its about what happened to Dick, it needs to be about what he wants or needs as a result. There can be other elements in play as well, by all means Jason and others can absolutely have their own conflicting views about what happened and wants/needs for revenge that are at odds with what Dick himself wants, and this doesn’t make them bad or wrong, but there’s so much room for intricate and complicated dynamics and insights there....whereas there’s just none of that in narratives that use harm done to Dick as a catalyst for character choices.....just without Dick’s character choices ever then entering the narrative as being considered at all relevant.

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thisgodwontforgiveyou · 4 years

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Kasen? If it isn't way too late already

i know i talk about kasen only to use her as the butt of gensokyo sages but i do love her a lot and WaHH is my favorite manga ever

favorite thing - the fact that the kasen we think of as kasen is just a fragment of a greater lifeform that was so powerful and evil it couldnt handle being whole, and that despite being a scheming hypocritical condescending occasionally murderous pedant shes the GOOD one

least favorite thing - the fact that ZUN still cant help slapping stereotypical chinese fashion onto characters willy nilly without them being well thought out OR the character having absolutely any chinese origin AND in this case the character is literally infamous for being hyper evil even if her split form isnt. like shes no meiling at least but its still not doing any favors to his legacy of highly questionable treatment characters with chinese aesthetics/origins (seiga is also literally evil even if its a more nuanced fun way)

favorite line - basically any of her really dramatic shit she says when she talks about being a hermit, but i also like when she says shit like this

the fact that she talks and acts like a villain despite being the ‘good half’ is always so funny

brotp - i think her and reimu have a pretty funny relationship, since kasen is so unbelievably condescending and mean to her despite reimu being on par with her in terms of power. its also really funny that she considers herself reimu’s mentor when it seems increasingly likely to me that yukari is in fact the hakurei god, and kasen presumably would know about this, meaning shes deliberately trying to one up yukari by stealing her own protege out from under her

otp - komachi and kasen’s fucking raw sexual tension in WaHH is truly unmatched. i think narratively eiteru is the most ‘canon’ touhou ship but in terms of the absolute bedroom eyes and saucy one liners NOTHING tops these two like they ARE banging.

that being said i also consider it 100% canon that her and suika are divorced, between their mythological inspirations being married in some interpretations and the way they act around each other being so awkward and standoffish but still kind of tender its sooooo obvious whats up with them

notp - theoretically you could ship her with reimu and itd be fine but literally 100% of the time ive ever seen it done people have been fucking gross about it. i dont think she has any true notps outsisde of blatant pedo shit but youd really struggle to get her back together with yukari or okina in a canon compliant context

random headcanon - while the anti oni beans dont do any real damage to suika because suika has more or less ‘purified’ all her evil by being a goofy dumbass, they hurt the shit out of even ‘good’ kasen because shes such a holier than thou prick

unpopular opinion - i she suffers from the same problem as byakuren but reversed, where everyone sees her as extremely evil and mean because they fail to understand the true motivations at play, and the smaller group that sees her as good refuse to accept the blatantly fucked things shes done. i like her so much because of what a dark gray morality she is despite literally trying to get into heaven

song i associate with them -

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youtube

favorite pictures of them -

oni miku reimu a i shi te ru

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avenger-hawk · 6 years

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The reason I ship Itasasu isn't "because I relate their relationship to mine with my sibling", it's because I CAN'T relate it with mine! I mean, it's pretty clear their relationship DOESN'T fall within the boundaries of a "normal sibling relationship" and its BECAUSE of this that I ship it! You don't have to answer this btw, just wanted to put this out there. Love your blog!

I consider the subject close now, but I’m posting this because its another perspective on it, and it’s interesting because it basically stems from the same root as the other one but it takes an opposite direction.

(anti tumblr puritanism under the cut)

For me it’s still kinda alien because I don’t think about myself and my own experience at all when I think about Itasasu, or most fictional relationships. I don’t really care about myself in general….Sure I relate to certain characters and relationships a lot, but it’s more like, I happen to find certain characteristics of myself in a fictional character, it happens by chance, if it doesn’t I can enjoy/ship/be interested in something even without necessarily relating. If only, if I had to relate Itasasu to my experience I’d relate it to feelings of love and loss, instead. It’s also about empathy, being able to feel what the other feels. Fiction thrives on that. And Itasasu is such a strong bond that we can see a lot of different aspects in it, whether one relates to them or not. It’s not about us, it’s about them and how much they love each other.

Also, and this is a general random observation only loosely connected to this subject, that had actually started politely and calmly so I’m not trying to cause drama here, also because it��s not even the first time I say it, I’m worried and bothered by tumblr puritanism, as when I started this blog it wasn’t like this. I know it will be the reason I’ll leave it someday, maybe soon maybe not. Twitter, for example, hosts a lot of Asian open minded artists who can tell fiction from reality and who aren’t afraid to explore the dark side, but since I write analysis its format isn’t for me otherwise I’d have migrated there already.

It’s like people don’t realize, or they don’t remember, or don’t know, what’s always been obvious. Fiction is a way to explore other realities, especially controversial and ambiguous ones. It’s cathartic. Everything is magnified in fiction, hate and love and everything in between are deeper and stronger, and people relate to them because everyone feels hate, love, jealousy and whatever else. They relate to feelings, not necessarily to their details. Their crushes, jealousy, hate and disappointment might be considered petty in real life, while in fiction they might have a greater purpose, they’re awesome and in a way they make the person feel better about them.

Fiction is also a way to escape from everyday life and its boring details, living other lives, other bonds, other tragedies, other joys, so the more different the more interesting. And the more eye opening. Because fiction makes people more tolerant and open minded, not more morally debauched. Moral wrongness and gross stuff are more likely to happen in an environment where people are narrow minded and repressed, actually. Also, since things always start in small scale and become bigger and bigger when masses adhere to them, if everyone has to relate to everything every time, first it will be forbidden to write about not only incest but pretty much anything else. Then once there are no more morally wrong things, people will start judging stuff set in different cultures because their ethics are slightly different, and so on. And this is a big problem. Lack of perspective leads to intolerance, and we’re already seeing the results here and irl.

#Anonymous #vivalarevolution #fanon and fandom stuff #anti naruto fandom #but mostly anti-anything puritan and narrow minded #and I'm so grossed out by certain things I see in the tags and my dash like that *did yu eat my brother's ass* post #ugh no #how many posts do I have to block #how many shitposts and memes that aren't even funny

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badrowboats · 7 years

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Hi, sorry to bother you, but I have a question. You know quite a lot about MCU and its fans, so I need your help with something. I don't get why the fandom loves Darcy Lewis so much, yes she is a good character, but she isn't what people make her out to be. Did I miss something when I watched the movies? I just don't get that level of, lets say fanaticism. I mean I adore Daisy, but I have reasons for that (she is perfect, we had 4 season to see that), what are reasons for loving Darcy so much?

I mean, you know why.

There was a post a while back that I wish I could find where I think the takehome is that Darcy is punky, spunky, and white? (Pretty much?) And I had answered this and then saved it as a draft like a million years ago, but recent events have reminded me of the “never trust anyone who loves Darcy too much” truism, so…

tbh, there’s stuff to unpack here (that I’m not sure I can really unpack that well because it really doesn’t really apply to me?) about the way fandom supposedly loves “blank slate” characters with minimal characterization so we can write onto them and/or self-insert. It definitely seems to me that this idea of “we love blank slate characters” is really only applied in a heavily gendered and racialized way (ie, it seems to me like this usually applies mostly to white dudes, hi movies Coulson, you’re nothing). I almost want to say I’m surprised that so many people love Darcy as much as they do, given the way other supporting white female characters with low onscreen character time get screwed by fandom (see: Sharon Carter and Laura Barton), but unlike them, Darcy doesn’t get in the way of any big ships. And unlike someone like Jane, she’s not tied to a specific romantic relationship.

So I’m gonna say it’s because she’s a punky, spunky, white female character who doesn’t get in the way of fandom fave ships and who doesn’t have a strong romantic arc herself, so she can travel around the MCU and be shipped with anyone.

As for why Darcy gets so much love while actual perfect (In)human Daisy Johnson doesn’t get enough? (Like, Darcy appears in more fics than Daisy on Ao3, and never forget that at least a quarter of Daisy’s fics are Skyeward fics, and another healthy chunk are Daisy showing up in the background of the other shitty Big 3 Bus Family ships, including as a literal child and lots of variations of a non-morally flawless superhero.)

I think we have enough evidence from past fandom stuff to know that even if Daisy were a blank slate character, she – like many characters of color before her – would still not get the love given to someone like Darcy. Just think back to season one, when people were pretending that Skye/Daisy was basically a blank slate Mary Sue too-perfect character; she just got a lot of hate for the way people failed to understand her complexity and centrality to the narrative. And then she got shipped with the Hydra agent who threatened to rape her and turned into a redemption tool instead of a protagonist, while most of fandom just sort of shrugged and didn’t see that as a real problem. The way that huge parts of fandom have risen up with anti-gross-ship blogs and protection squads for white female characters like Jessica Jones and Rey tells me that the way Daisy was treated was very specifically racialized misogyny.

Then we have the ‘blank slate’ stuff. Because Daisy Johnson is also distinctly not a blank-slate/self-insert character. We have backstory, a lot of emotional context for her past and present, and we see her take actions that are explained in subtext and not so much embarrassingly telegraphed in info-dump conversations. Chloe does a lot (so much) with her beautifully expressive face, which makes it possible to write thousands of words of meta about Daisy’s thoughts in any particular scene. That makes her a perfect subject of fic, imo – there’s a ton to explore, but it’s all grounded in hours and hours and hours of her story. And, honestly, I try to take the “blank slate” stuff as something real people in fandom really feel even if I don’t get it at all, but there’s so much that could be written about Daisy, so much more than self-inserts and using her as a shipping tool or a redemption tool, and I fully believe that – again – racialized misogyny has kept fandom from seeing that.

Because, just like Darcy, Daisy is someone who could absolutely be shipped around the MCU? She’s gorgeous and nuanced and vulnerable and awkward and dorky and powerful and kind (in addition to being flawless). She just spent six months traveling across the country on her own. Her canon romantic arcs on the show have been…non-existent and lackluster, respectively – nothing that remotely ties her down. She and Sam Wilson would adore each other, Steve Rogers would line up behind her, Nick Fury would see himself in her, Natasha Romanoff would want to hang out with her and talk hacking, Lady Sif already thinks she’s a total morally flawless badass, she’s an autodidact who could talk about all Luke Cage’s favorite books with him, she’d have civilized discussions about governmentality and colonialism and Fanon with T’challa, she and Matt Murdock were literally in the same orphanage at ages when they must have overlapped, she would love Trish’s show and politics (plus, I bet Trish has some connections to the Rising Tide in the digging she’s done?), she and Misty could have flirty banter about law vs morality, she and Claire Temple could take care of each other and eat junk food…

And, honestly, I completely believe that if a white character had gotten something like Daisy’s arc (from morally flawless homeless hacker to morally flawless superhero) and Daisy’s character development, that character would be the most popular character in the MCU. (Especially if they were a white dude, yeah.) And I think if white fandom actually saw Daisy as white (instead of mostly using ‘white passing’ as a way of excusing the fact that her most popular ship is with a dude who willingly joined a Nazi-affiliated group), she would be more popular than Darcy.

tl;dr: I think racism that manifests as a fandom-wide tendency to identify primarily with white characters (something I know I have been very guilty of in my past, and something I still work on today – something I think all white fans need to work on) plays the biggest role in why fandom loves Darcy and why fandom had such a hard time connecting with Daisy (though I think there have been some big shifts there?). There’s a layer of misogyny, too, that applies to white women and women of color both (but that is more applicable to woc I think), where fandom always has problems with female characters who are actually well-developed and complex and interesting in their own right – not just shipping tools or self-inserts, basically. And Daisy gets the worst of all of this mess, while Darcy – thanks to her whiteness and relative blankness – is seen as more shipable.

Which is all to say…you know why.

#fandom fuckery #mcu fandom problems #this fucking fandom i fucking swear #daisy johnson is better than your fave #:)#standwithquake #like idk #there's stuff here i'm sure i'm missing because i don't get it at all #and i've never read darcy fic or read a lot of darcy meta #but like #you know why #:)))#i'm white disclaimer #i've been sitting on this answer for months?#but like it feels newly relevant #i'm just mad this week okay #lol #myquake

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