#but you can kind of see why tang sanzang acts the way he does

[sketching-shark]

Do you think Tang Seng feels responsible for the deaths of his mother and his first two human disciples?

You know anon this is actually a really good questions that really should be explored more in Xiyouji retellings!

As it is, you have an eighteen year old Xuanzang, after the truth of his birth was revealed, falling "weeping to the floor, saying, 'How can anyone be worthy to bear the name of man if he cannot avenge the wrongs done to his parents? For eighteen years, I have been ignorant of my true parents, and only this day have I learned that I have a mother!'" Of course it wasn't his fault for not knowing what happened to his parents until the monk who found him floating on a river as an infant told him (his dad was killed by a bandit & his mom was forced to 'marry' said bandit who took her husband's place for eighteen years), but you can see how even here he's expressing guilt for not knowing. And then, after he puts in so much effort to save his mother from this horrifying situation, and "not long after" his entire family is in fact reunited, his mother "calmly committed suicide after all." There's no record in at least the Yu translation as to what Xuanzang felt about this, and sadly enough after going through so many years of such a awful life you can understand why his mom would even after being reunited with her true husband and son decide to take her own life. But you can also easily imagine how her suicide would be a real blow to Xuanzang, who was both A) left in a state where he barely got to know his mother at all, B) could have been left feeling like he wasn't enough for his mother to want to live, and C) may have been forever after haunted by the questions as to whether he could have prevented his mother's death if only he knew about her sooner or had moved faster to rescue her.

Turning to Tang Sanzang's two human followers, their deaths read as equally if not more horrible to his mother's. To quote the Yu translation, Tang Sanzang and his followers are captured by a group of yaoguai kings and their attendants, one of which "called his subordinates at once to have the attendants eviscerated and their carcasses carved up; their heads, hearts, and livers were to be presented to the guests, the limbs to the host, and the remaining portions of flesh and bone to the rest of the ogres. The moment the order was given, the ogres pounced on the attendants like tigers preying on sheep; munching and crunching, they devoured them in no time at all. The priest nearly died of fear..." Tang Sanzang is only spared the same fate from divine intervention from the Planet Venus.

So YEAH, you can easily imagine Tang Sanzang not only developing a guilt complex over this not only because these attendants were eaten because they were following him, but how he was the only one who escaped because he had deities watching out for him. And if they could save him, why didn't they save the others? You can also see how the monk might also develop a deep hatred for yaoguai from this early experience in the journey west. Xiyouji from what I can tell is a work that moves from one even to the next pretty rapidly without taking time to dwell deeply on the feelings of its characters, but even so I think the experience of watching his companions literally get butchered and eaten right in front of him would scar Tang Sanzang in a way that wouldn't be alleviated until he attained nirvana at the end of the journey, ESPECIALLY since so many yaoguai afterwards try to do the exact same thing to him as this early group.

Dang, the journey really traumatized all of the pilgrims to greater or lesser degrees huh.

[earl-of-221b]

驱魔录 Qū mó lù 3

(Part 3 translations of the comic. Final 2016 chapters.) Chapters 20-28

True and False Monkey King

—

Chapter 20

(The Buddha, surrounded by his many disciples.)

Disciple, upper right bubble: “Lord Buddha, I’ve heard that that demon monkey went to cause trouble in the Heavenly Kingdom again.”

“The seal you put over him, is it really…..”

Buddha: “That is not possible. Judging by that demon monkey’s ways, he doesn’t have the power to have broken the seal I placed upon him. But…”

(Buddhists sitting on lotus seats, hovering.)

Buddha: “My follower’s previous incarnation, ‘Jingchanzi’s’ memories are still sealed away. In addition to that demon’s uncanny creation by the sky and the earth.”

Buddha, looming over Jiang Liu’er: “It is true that the seal is becoming weaker and weaker. When the time comes, I fear that it will be very hard to control him again…”

(The Buddha reaches out a giant, gilded hand.)

Disciple: “Lord Buddha, then should we not…right now…?”

Buddha: “No. Unless it gets to the dire point where there are no more options, we cannot act so crudely.”

Buddha: “This present demon is similar to that demon monkey, in that they share the same roots…”

(A demon, haunched over and brutishly shackled down with rods in his back.)

Buddha: “If the day comes that that control cannot be implemented, the consequences will be catastrophic.”

(Rods stuck into the back of the demon, sparking.)

Buddha: “To keep that demon under control…the buddhist seal must not waver…”

(Another monkey demon bares his teeth, with six visible ears.)

Six Eared Macaque: “I…”

“I…am…Six-Ears.”

“Not…am not…”

“Sun…”

“Wu…”

“Kong…”

(Either Six-Eared Macaque is freed from his bonds, or he imagines staring at the back of — or standing in the shadow of — the Great Sage Equal to Heaven.)

Author notes: Looks like I dug myself into this hole. (At the start I said I was only doing quick one-shots of daily life.)

Translator notes: This is a spin on the existing 真假猴王 ‘True and False Monkey King’ story. In the original, Sun Wukong goes away and is replaced by a hostile and aggressive version of him who hurts Tang Monk. The fake has the exact same power-set and strength as real Wukong. When two Wukong’s show up, the crew has to figure out who is the real one and get rid of the fake, Six-ears. In the end the Buddha helps reveal the fake and Wukong kills him with his staff.

‘Jingchanzi’ is the name of Jiang Liu’er/ Tang Monk’s previous reincarnation, who was Buddha’s important second disciple. There are different interpretations of why the Buddha sent Jingchanzi back to the mortal world to get the scriptures, especially since the journey west is kind of a giant redemption arc for the demon disciples. The most popular one goes like this: during one of Buddha’s sermons, Jingchanzi fell asleep like a rebel. Thus, Buddha sent Jingchanzi back down to earth so he could appreciate his teachings better. The end.

‘Jiang Liu’er’ was the childhood name of Tang Monk/ Xuanzang/ Tang Sanzang/ Tang Seng (wow he has a lot of names I didn’t even realise…). It means ‘child who flowed down the river,’ referring to how he was found by the monks as a baby.

—

Chapter 21

(Wukong, perched on a ledge, his eyes glowing.)

(Jiang Liu’er reaches out his hand doing something uneasy.)

(He’s picking lots - a little game to make decisions. Whoever picks the straw with the mark on it is ‘it.’)

Jiang Liu’er: “Hoo…it’s not me.”

“Who’s turn is it to get food this time la….”

(The straw with the red mark says “food.”)

White Dragon, Xiao Bai, to Sa Yatou: “Told you not to play with them already…”

Zhu Bajie: “Sa Yatou, looks like you’re it.”

Sha Yatou: “It’s ok, I wanna go.”

Sha Wujing, crouched to see Sa Yatou, right bubble: “You have to be very careful going by yourself, alright, safety first…Remember when you cross the road you need to…”

Sa Yatou: “Uhuh. I know already.”

Zhu Bajie, right bubble: “Do your best and get heaps of meat back here. *Cough.* …Because you’re still in the growing phase….”

Sa Yatou, snickering: “Ok, Pig Uncle.”

Xiao Bai: “If anybody dares pick on you then you tell Xiao Bai immediately, you hear that? We’ll…”

Sa Yatou: “Uhuh, yeah.”

Sa Yatou: “Big Brother Monk, you want anything in particular?”

Jiang Liu’er, glancing back: “Nothing really……it’s just that…”

“Never mind. I’ll come with you, we’ll go together.”

Sa Yatou, left bubble: “But…this time I got picked…”

(The straw lot disappears out of Sa Yatou’s hand.)

Sun Wukong: “Getting some food isn’t complicated enough for you guys to chit-chat and push-pull over. With that amount of energy, I’d already be there and back.”

(Sun Wukong takes off, leaving wisps of cloud in his wake.)

Sa Yatou: “The Great Sage….is he angry…?”

Jiang Liu’er, bottom bubble in black background: “No. He’s currently happy in that heart of his.”

—

Chapter 22

(Flight trails streaked through the air.)

(Someone descends and lands.)

(The golden band sparks.)

Either Bajie or Wujing: “Head Brother, back so fast?”

Sun Wukong, suspicious: “…”

Zhu Bajie: “This time it’s not all peaches again is it?”

Jiang Liu’er, silhouette: “Hahah, who told you guys to leave it to him and not go yourselves. As long as we have something to eat, there’s nothing to complain.”

“Right, Great Sage?”

Sun Wukong: “Jingchangzi…”

Voice, middle bubble: “You….you’re not the Great Sage…”

“!”

(It’s Sa Yatou. She hides behind Jiang Liu’er.)

Jiang Liu’er, faded into the background as Sun Wukong grips his weapon: “What’s wrong? Sa Yatou? If he’s not the Great Sage who else would he be?”

Sa Yatou, beside him: “It’s just — not him.”

—

Chapter 23

(Sun Wukong raises his weapon, striking.)

(The rest of the pilgrims are startled.)

(The strike narrowly misses Jiang Liu’er.)

Zhu Bajie, bottom left bubble: “Dammit! Bimawen, Stable-boy — you’re crazy!”

Sha Wujing, right bubble: “Head…Head Brother.”

(It’s quite clear that this is the six eared macaque, not Sun Wukong.)

Six-ears: “Oh?”

(White dragon horse, Xiao Bai.)

Xiao Bai: “You — where did a imposter demon like you crawl out from? You dare masquerade as the Great Sage?”

Six-ears: “Heh, heh. Imposter?”

“Even if I’m an imposter, what can the likes of you do?”

(Bajie attacks.)

Zhu Bajie: “Old Sha…”

Sha Wujing: “Hm.”

(Jiang Liu’er and Sa yatou shield themselves from the impact.)

Zhu Bajie: “That damned monkey turns out to be an imposter?”

(The golden band seems to be sparking amidst the dust.)

(He attacks.)

Six-ears, right: “Little girl. How did you recognise me?”

Sa Yatou: “People you’re close with…the feelings you get around family.”

“You won’t understand.”

Six-ears, raising his weapon: “Maybe I really can’t understand it.”

“But…”

“You’re wrong.”

“I am him.”

(Translator note: It seems that Six-ears wears the golden band, but real Sun Wukong does not.)

(In canon, the golden band controls Sun Wukong’s behaviour by causing excruciating pain when one recites the ‘band-tightening’ mantra.)

—

Chapter 24

(The Jingou Bang, poised before Sa Yatou.)

Six-ears: “Little girl. You’re not afraid?”

Sa Yatou: “No. I trust the Great Sage. He’ll come to save us…”

Six-ears, bottom right bubble: “Heheh. Your precious Great Sage isn’t coming back. From now on I am…”

“Sun…”

“Wu…”

“Kong…”

“He can’t even save himself right now…..”

“Close your eyes. I won’t let it hurt.”

(Sa Yatou closes her eyes.)

(A huge blast of power, of gods descending, turns Six-ear’s attention.)

The god: “I’ve always hated owing people favours…”

“Since you’re not that monkey, looks like I can use this chance to return it.”

Six-ears: “Nezha. I’d advise you not to butt-in on my business. Not that you’re able…”

Nezha: “This business — is mine to butt-in.”

Six-ears: “You really think I don’t have the guts to take you?”

“Five hundred years ago you couldn’t win me, today, you can’t win all the same.”

(Image of the crew behind Nezha.) 

Six-ears: “Even if all of you come at me at once.”

“Take my word for it. As if the few of you have a chance…”

A Voice: “Shouldn’t make your word so final, don’t you think?”

“I’d advise that you hand the monkey back over to us…”

(The Howling Sky Dog, Xiao Tian Quan.)

“I couldn’t care less about other people’s business. But he has to at least give me back my post money.”

(Upon the god’s forehead is his closed third eye, the truth-seeing “Sky-Eye.”)

(Erlang Shen has landed in the mortal world.)

Translator notes: Erlang Shen was the god that did win Sun Wukong in an uneven match and apprehended him back to Heaven. (Uneven because Sun Wukong was fighting Erlang Shen one-on-one when his powerful dog and Laozi got the jump on him.)

Erlang Shen is referring back to Chapter 14 last chapter of first translation at the end of the White Bone Demon arc. Sun Wukong posts him bones labelled as ‘dog food’ but I guess he didn’t pay beforehand so Erlang Shen had to pay on his end. He’s here for his money back!

—

Chapter 25

(Heaven’s True General, Erlang Shen and the Marshal of the Central Altar, Li Nezha.)

Six-ears: “This…can’t be possible.”

“You two can’t possibly be this powerful……..”

(Erlang Shen looks at Six-ears through his truth-seeing eye.)

Erlang Shen: “It’s not us that has become more powerful, but you who’s become weaker……It seems I can’t discern what is off but…”

“You are not Sun Wukong. Or shall I say, you are not ‘that’ time’s Great Sage Equal to Heaven.”

(‘Great Sage Equal to Heaven is in red. Referring to the Havoc in Heaven.)

Nezha: “Elder Brother, what does that mean? Even the Sky-Eye can’t see through it?”

Erlang Shen: “Hm. Can’t see it. But — I can confirm he’s a fake.”

Six-ears: “IMPOSSIBLE! THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE…”

(Six-eared Macaque flies away, the crew and gods brace in his wake.)

Zhu Bajie: “Ran…he ran away…”

Erlang Shen, pinky in his ear: “I…can’t catch up. If you want to chase, you chase.”

“Tch…”

Zhu Bajie: “Heh! Erlang! Why’d you let that demon get away?!”

Jiang Liu’er, silhouetted behind Bajie: “Wuneng, curb your rudeness.”

“Esteemed god, if you are able, I ask that you please help the Great Sage.”

Nezha: “Elder Brother. Think of some ideas. Because that monkey….”

Erlang Shen: “Even if I want to help him I’m all out of ideas. Don’t even know when that shitty monkey dropped off the face of the earth.”

Sa Yatou, leftmost bubble: “Just then — the Great Sage went to find food. He was gone for the time it takes for an incense stick to burn.” (About an hour.)

“When he got back it was the fake one.”

Erlang Shen, right: “Oh? Like that…”

(Erlang Shen commands Xiao Tian Quan to follow the trail.)

“Then that’s something to go on.”

“You can’t have eaten all those dog treats for nothing, right, Xiao Tian?”

(Translator notes: Nezha refers to Erlang Shen as ‘cousin’ in the comic but they’re not...cousins. And they’re not related. So I opted to put ‘elder brother’ to show seniority etc.)

—

Chapter 26

(On the cliff of a mountain, Xiao Tian takes Erlang Shen and Jiang Liu’er to the find the real Great Sage.)

Erlang Shen: “Xiao Tian. The monkey’s here, is he?”

Xiao Tian: *Barks.*

Jiang Liu’er, probably: “This…this is a buddhist seal.”

(Probably Jiang Liu’er reading the mountainside seal.)

“Six words true from the heart…”

“To undo the buddhist seal.”

Erlang Shen: “Little Master. Looks like we really can’t do anything else. We’ve got our hands tied for this matter.”

Nezha: “What’s so high and mighty about it? Let’s break our way in and then talk…”

“Someone able to take down the monkey within the time of an incense stick burning to its end — I really do want see them.”

Jiang Liu’er: “Third Prince, please refrain.”

Jiang Liu’er, hands held together in prayer form: “For you two to escort this humble monk here, I am already grateful to no end. Since this business is from my own sect, and since your identities in Heaven are…”

“I simply cannot trouble you for this affair. Please forgive this humble monk’s discrepancies. I’ll go in alone…”

Nezha, right bubble: “Monk, but we…”

White Dragon, Xiao Bai: “Monk, you’re insane! You’re not doing anything but looking for death going in alone! We’ll go in with you….”

Jiang Liu’er’s silhouette: “I said…”

“Alone.”

Xiao Bai: “……..”

Zhu Bajie, right: “The little Monk’s a little different today.”

Sha Wujing, left: “A little…scary.”

The seals in red: ‘Oṃ’

‘Maṇi’

‘Padme’

‘Hūṃ’

(Image of a chained monkey’s hand.)

Sun Wukong: “Heheh. Buddha, you imprisoned this Old Sun for five hundred years…why this again?”

Buddha, black bubbles: “Sun Wukong, your demonic nature has yet to be cured. How are you to protect the pilgrim who goes to collect the sutras?

Sun Wukong, white bubble, left: “I don’t protect him because he happens to be the pilgrim.”

Buddha: “These affairs are no longer any of your concern. The Buddha has decided…”

(The real Sun Wukong, strung up upon a giant buddhist seal.)

Jiang Liu’er: “Da Seng!”

(‘Great Sage.’)

Sun Wukong: “Jiang…You, why are you….”

Jiang Liu’er: “Don’t you worry, I’m going up there to get you down right now.”

Sun Wukong: “Monk, just go. This time the seal isn’t so easy…”

Buddha: “Jingchanzi…”

“You have a great responsibility upon your hands. Do not be brash. The Buddha has already commanded the other half of this demon to aid you upon your travels…”

“Those who become one with the greater good enlightens oneself, but they cannot adhere to the rhythm and whims of the small, this is how the Mahayana doctrine comes to be…”

(i.e One must detach themselves from personal loyalty and individuals in order to serve a greater purpose.)

Jiang Liu’er: “I do not understand. What do you mean by his ‘other half…?’”

Buddha, left: “The day I subdued the demon beneath Five Elements Mountain, I split his spirit from one into two. The first half remains the demon you see before you. The second is ‘Six-ears.’

“And now the opportunity has come to command his use. He will help you finish your buddhist journey….”

“Even if you cannot fathom this, based upon the power you have, if you try to release the seal your own spirit will…”

Buddha, in red: “Smother like smoke and disappear.”

Six-ears, right bubble: “Smother and disappear? Sounds so scary.”

“The thing I want to know — If I originally was half of him, then how am I supposed to smother and disappear?”

Jiang Liu’er: “You….”

Six-ears, eyes glowing red behind Jiang Liu’er: “Step out of the way, little monk. Saving him is not up to you.”

(Six-ears, hearing the truth, leaps to save his original self.)

(The seal shatters.)

Sun Wukong: “…Spirit fragment…”

(Jiang Liu’er is now in possession of the part-spirit of Sun Wukong.)

Buddha, left black bubble: “Jingchanzi. His split spirit must not be returned into the hands of the original body…”

“It cannot be allowed for the Demonic King to return to the height of the power, to the days of…”

“The Great Sage Equal to Heaven.”

Jiang Liu’er, left: “Lord Buddha. Your enlightened ways and exalted words are wasted upon me. I cannot yet understand your greatness….”

“The greater good is of course of the highest importance. But doing smaller acts of good cannot be neglected. Human nature is spilt into potential for good and evil. I would rather live this life of good and evil.” (I think.)

(Image of Jiang Liu’er close up, under the straw hat.)

Jiang Liu’er, right bubble: “And one more point. Lord Buddha, my name is Jiang Liu’er. I’m a humble, simple monk…..”

“—Not your pilgrim, Jingchanzi.”

Sun Wukong: “Jiang Liu’er…”

(Jiang Liu’er returns Sun Wukong’s other half back to him.)

(Sun Wukong regains the body and soul of his heyday.)

—

Chapter 27

(Outside the mountain, the crew is startled by a shockwave.)

Zhu Bajie: “This is…”

Nezha: “So much demonic aura…!”

(Sun Wukong reclaims his Ruyi Jingou Bang staff, now exactly as he was when he took heaven five hundred years ago.)

Buddha: “Jingchanzi. Do you understand — the demon monkey has regained his vitality from the days where a sky filled with heavenly gods, and buddhist celestials, stood as his opponent?”

“Should he rise up and take the Heavenly Kingdom again, should he shake the Palace of the Underworld, can you shoulder this degree of sin?”

Buddha, lower black bubble:  “Make haste, crown him with the golden band, curtail calamity.”

(Sun Wukong lashes out, swiping the Jingou Bang staff above Jiang Liu’er.)

(The gargantuan image of Buddha is wiped away.)

Buddha: “The golden band is the only thing left in this world that can control his demonic nature….”

(Sun Wukong faces Jiang Liu’er.)

(Suddenly, Sun Wukong falls to his knees.)

Sun Wukong, bowing over the headband: “Should I become a buddhist, the world will see no monsters; should I become a monster, what now can buddhists do to me?”

“To be monster or to be buddha; it is your will by reciting the words.”

Jiang Liu’er: “Da…Seng…”

Sun Wukong, top bubble: “Okay la, okay la. Let’s go, stop crying your nose off…”

Jiang Liu’er: “Who said I was crying — I am not.”

Sun Wukong: “Look at you. Your snot is all getting onto my Jingou Bang staff…”

End.

Author notes: The art style and background looks I’ve now definitely got down. But I can’t promise that it won’t change.

Translator notes: The seals in chapter 27 show the band-tightening mantra ‘Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ.’ Sun Wukong trusts Jiang Liu’er so much he accepts the golden band and hands him the key to keep him in check.

Big thanks to @dorkshadows​ for translating the part about the Mahayana doctrine.  :D

—

Final Chapter, Chapter 28

(No dialogue until end.)

(A small village under a blood red moon.)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Erlang Shen: “Still want to play, Xiao Tian Quan?”

Xiao Tian Quan: “Uhuh <3”

End.

Author Notes: Now I can sigh out loud at the end. I can’t believe I stuck with it and drew so much. Of course my motivation comes from all of you readers and your support. It’s still that same line from me — as long as you like it, I’ll keep on drawing~~~

Translator notes: Xiao Tian is Erlang Shen’s loyal, deified dog. Thank you for reading and please support DENGANG on weibo. I’ll continue translating the 2017 chapters after a short break. Also, disclaimer: I have no affiliation with the author and this is not my work. I only do the english fan translations. 

Check out DENGANG’s shop and prints  x

[sketching-shark]

Me ghink theres lot of hate towards tang sanzang some of which IS UNDERSTANDABLE

But alot of it goes too far and say the most rancid shit ever all bc hes book character. Mind ya hes based on actual person and is being use his likeness. Like some lmk fans be saying the worse thing ever towards this guy(for example wanting him get the d*ath penalty n amongst others).

We forgetting that yes some of his treatment towards swk IS horrible but we tends to forget swk had done some atrocious things that sanzang was witness to in full view. No human would journey like that without being completely scar and traumatized. Some of my friends while looking through the book had found that sanzang be using the circlet all in one go and then never used it in years.

His character development does happen yall in where he do trust his companion more and then *insert traumatizing moment* happen. I do think wukong didnt deserves the maltreatment tho(i want to say this bc later i get ppl saying that i support ab*se bc i defend sanzang for a bit, not knowing that i also disagreed w some his actions)

Most ppl forget that the first arc that the gang actually face as a group was the gingseng tree arc, not white bone spirit.that u have him defending wukong and countless other times where he do trust swk judgement in some cases. (i just wanted to get it out there since not many ppl realize it n im fully blaming osp for this bc they are skipping arcs. N they don’t really tell what arcs they’re skipping)

This just me rambling but dam all these ppl need therapy.

THEY'RE SAYING WHAT NOW ANON AAAAAAAAAAA but haha wow on a lighter note that is kind of funny that the fandom which routinely portrays the Six-Eared "I am going to try to murder-replace you for completely selfish reasons / repeatedly try to kill a young mortal that you love" Macaque as a monkey who never did anything wrong ever would then go out its way to demonize Tang "I do lash out & often don't trust my senior disciple but have also been threatened with death for fourteen years" Sanzang. Like geez I've seen many another fandom where the assumption is that for one character to be good/be "redeemed" you need to make another character horrible (tbh I'm starting to suspect that that's what's happening with the lego show version of Sun Wukong & the Six-Eared Macaque), but wild if true that some lmk fans would go THAT far in the attempt to paint the monk as a guy so awful that he literally deserves the death penalty.

Now to be fair it does need to be noted that even in Wu Cheng'en's classic (or at least from what I've seen in the Anthony C. Yu translation), Tang Sanzang was in many ways intentionally written as a caricature of a fussy Confucian scholar who may have memorized many doctrines but who doesn't really understand them, and who is often made a figure of fun for falling off his horse, and who does use the headband against Sun Wukong is some very explicitly painful and unjust scenes. In at least the book he's also a much more static character than the Monkey King in that we don't see any real changes in his thoughts or behavior over the course of the journey, which I can see as a something that would sour many against him. THAT SAID, you are very correct anon in noting that besides one traumatizing event after another happening to him, from his mother's suicide to constantly being threatened with death and/or rape at the hands of many yaoguai, this monk does have a number of reasons for why he's constantly crying and acting with hatred and suspicion towards the Monkey King. And let's not forget that one of the things SWK told Tang Sanzang early on in the journey was that he had literally killed so many he couldn't remember them all, and that was right before he tried to kill the monk himself! Point being that yes both Tang Sanzang and Sun Wukong are extremely flawed individuals who often clashed with each other in some pretty upsetting ways, but there's also many understandable reasons for why they act the way they do. It's a real disservice to their characters and the underlying implications of the journey (or its retellings tbh) to forget or ignore that! *

*(and on THAT note this is another reason why it's kind of frustrating that the Overly Sarcastic Production & Monkie Kid retellings of Xiyouji seem to be the primary ways that western audiences are understanding the journey. Liking explicitly cartoony retellings is one thing. But then basing all your knowledge of the work on these retellings and/or even outright refusing to understand the classic in any other context makes for some really simplified and even really insulting beliefs about a culturally important work as a whole)

[sketching-shark]

Ok no i feel like if your favorite character is swk, then you are either tang sanzang OR zhu bajie.

Thats is too say: you too will be a zhu bajie apologist and sympathize w tang sanzang one you do a thorough breakdown of jttw

Bc my god all of them have personalities that by the end of the book you just don’t want the journey to end. (Like there’s moments where u can glimpse into their daily life and wonder if they always had done it this way or this just spur of the moment—such as when theyre getting supplies n u see tang sanzang feeling guilty for not helping and wanting to help. ALSO THE TIME WHERE SWK BASICALLY PUT ZHU BAJIE IN TIME OUT WHILE HE N SHA WUJING WENT TO GET SUPPLIES SHHSHSH

At least they end up sticking together tho🥹🥹

ETRHDRGSEAWAFERSGD i think if we can agree to anything it's that the unedited version of Xiyouji really is a masterclass example on how if you genuinely want your characters to be complex then you really need to spare the time and effort to let that complexity shine through.

Because YEAH i've been fully guilty of it myself in describing Tang Sanzang as a weepy whiner who falls off his horse all the time and Zhu Bajie as naught but the massive pervert of the group BUT THEN if you start thinking about the stuff they are explicitly written as having gone through then you have to acknowledge that there's a lot more going on with them than that & all the many many MANY reasons for why they act they way they do besides their personal failings, and yes in the end it does leave you with characters where you can appreciate who they are while still acknowledging their faults & who you want to see in all kinds of extra situations in addition to the +1400 pages that we get.

I mean as it is i've heard that the Chinese side of the Xiyouji fandom regularly gets into debates as to what the pilgrims were eating at specific locations during the journey argetewr.

[sketching-shark]

Monkie kid fandom: o well macaques a morally grey character he’s got a traumatic past and Sun Wukongs so mean and evil for leaving him

Reality: Macaque is literally ment to the representative of Sun Wukongs EVIL side and having a “traumatic past” doesn’t justify literally trying to kill people who had nothing to do with it he also traumatised Mk because he can and because he’s connected to Sun Wukong. Sun Wukong choose to change his ways macaque just decided “you no what am going to kill this monk because he’s connected to somebody who left me.” I don’t understand how people try so hard to Villainise Sun Wukong when’s he’s literally ment to be one of the first ever superheroes. 

Haha oh geez that is how it often feels.

Like at this point there does seem to be something of an effort to make Sun Wukong look bad in order to absolve Macaque of a lot of wrong-doing...But as you mentioned, besides it being the case that the Six-Eared Macaque was originally made to function as a representative and/or living embodiment of Sun Wukong's anger and violent tendencies (hence why Sun Wukong's a lot less prone to sudden acts of violence after he kills the six-eared simian in JTTW), given all the murder attempts and manipulation and literal acts of kidnapping/brainwashing/mind control he's committed in the lego monkey show, personally I feel like the dude is pretty much as viciously jealous & as willing to throw people under the bus to achieve his aims as he is in Journey to the West.

Like I know that Monkie Kid diverges from JTTW in a number of ways (a big change being that Sun Wukong had beat up a lot of demons instead of smashing them into meat patties lol), but one of the things that does feel like it's being lost in translation, as it were, is that the Six Ear Macaque was a villain not just because he beat up the Tang Monk, but because he wanted to take over Sun Wukong's entire life and identity so he could have all that glory and prestige for himself. To quote the macaque himself from the Anthony C. Yu translation, "I struck the T'ang monk and I took the luggage...precisely because I want to go to the West all by myself to ask Buddha for the scriptures. When I deliver them to the Land of the East, it will be my success and no one else's. Those people of the South Jambudvipa Continent will honor me then as their patriarch and my fame will last for all posterity." And in order to do this, the Six Eared Macaque had apparently made Sun Wukong's "little ones," his monkey family, his captives through either trickery or force, and gotten a number of them to take on the appearance of Tang Sanzang and the other pilgrims. It's also made clear that in direct contrast to Sun Wukong he doesn't care about these monkeys beyond how they might serve him, given that after Sha Wujing kills the monkey posing as him the Six Eared Macaque not only all but immediately replaces him with another, but also "told his little ones to have the dead monkey skinned. Then his meat was taken to be fried and served as food along with coconut and grape wines." So this monkey is not only willing to risk the lives of a lot of other monkeys for his own benefit, but is also a literal cannibal.

In Monkie Kid (at least according to Macaque, who is an unreliable narrator at best), he had been best of friends with Sun Wukong before Sun Wukong presumably went off to live in Heaven & abandoned all of his friends on Earth. And it is true that in Journey to the West, Sun Wukong had spent over a century of earthly years in heaven just enjoying himself before he gets into trouble by ruining the Immortal Peach Banquet and heading back down to his yaoguai kingdom. So in that regard, Macaque does have justification to hate Sun Wukong for having brought heaven's army to their mountain (of course you could say that starting a war over one banquet is a bit of an overreaction but that's a conversation for another day). What this does omit, however, is that the main reason Sun Wukong went to heaven in the first place is to see if he could get all of his monkeys to live up there, that he had spent centuries fortifying Flower Fruit Mountain from any and all threats beforehand, and that he brings back a bounty of immortality-granting wine, which all the monkeys eagerly drink. And perhaps most importantly, in the following war with heaven itself all of the assembled yaoguai were behind Sun Wukong 100%. He had already done so much for them, and they had already heard about how their great king was made to serve as a stable hand in heaven, and so got some sense of how little the heavens thought of them. This isn't to say that the Six Eared Macaque doesn't have reason to be mad at Sun Wukong or that the Monkey King doesn't share a lot of the blame for the events that led to the burning of Flower Fruit Mountain, but rather to say that all the assembled yaoguai weren't dragged into this war kicking and screaming. They seem to have regarded it as much as a power struggle with great potential rewards and which they could win as much as Sun Wukong did.

But going back to this version of the Six Eared Macaque, I find him interesting because I read him not as morally grey but rather as this frightening, somewhat tragic figure who's jealously of and resentment against Sun Wukong seems to have festered and grown to the point where it's become the sole defining feature of his life; like he's just gone from wanting to literally be Sun Wukong to wanting revenge against the Monkey King, and in all his centuries of living he hasn't allowed anything else to shape his life. After 500 years of apparently not really doing anything, after Sun Wukong made a reappearance Macaque just seem to be targeting anyone and anything that he thinks will let him hurt Sun Wukong, no matter the cost to others or to himself. It's like he was put into the role of Sun Wukong's doppelganger/shadow/evil clone, and he's now hellbent on staying in that position, no matter how much it hurts him or holds him back from cultivating his own individuality or his own story because that's the only way he feels he gain back his past power and/or stay connected to the Monkey King. There is something really tragic about a character who feels so damaged by and/or is so obsessed with the past that they stay in this stagnant position where they never even attempt to try something different from their destructive and self-damaging behavior, but that's precisely what makes Macaque a good villain as well. Besides being a clever and calculating villain, he never developed a sense of morality like Sun Wukong, he still treats everyone around him like tools, and his self-righteousness gives him "permission" to be a relentless monster to MK, all of MK's loved ones, and Sun Wukong himself. I know it's pretty common in media these days to start a villain down the path of redemption & into the bosom of team good guy by having them be hurt by an even worse villain, but personally I would love to see a story arc where Macaque actually has a realization of how horrible his behavior has been and to feel genuine remorse for it (maybe brought about by the violence he's likely suffering at the hands of the Lady Bone Demon, in a kind of "hey being manipulated and hurt for the benefit of others actually sucks oh no I can't believe I thought it was okay when I did it"), but then also has to face the consequence of his former student and former best friend (actually likely the entire monkie crew given the whole kidnapping/brainwashing/mind-controlling thing) never wanting anything to do with him again & cutting him out of their lives completely. I think he could still change for the better under such a scenario, but the seriousness of his bad actions shouldn't be swept under the rug.

In conclusion, I think a "redemption without forgiveness" story line could work really well for Monkie Kid's version of the Six-Eared Macaque in a kind of "you can't just do horrible things and then cry about your past like that somehow makes it okay" way, and smh at the Monkie Kid fandom for all the work put into giving Sun Wukong and only Sun Wukong flak for his and Macaque's fight.

Like if you have to demonize the Monkey King, at least go after him for having been a warlord.