#can i tag tis byler??

[kuumara]

Do you ever feel like this fandom just isn't fun anymore?

The homophobia on other platforms seems to be worse than ever. People on here are having Byler doubt because of all the propaganda the homophobes are spreading. None of the Stranger Things or Netflix social media accounts are addressing the rampant bullying and homophobia, even when people are commenting the most disgusting things and including them in it.

And even on our tag, you see people get a bunch of hate for harmless things like headcanons.

I'm sorry to unpack all of this on you, but I'm curious to see if you or anyone else feels the same.

its alr lmao and i get where ur coming from anon although i dont rly feel the same, i mean the homophobia and stuff is veryvery bad but that's why i stick to my tumblr dashboard and go nowhere else. i agree it would be good for someone with a lot of influence to say smth but i dont think theyre aware that much, except for the duffers saying they hate reddit which. we all do

and dw even though the stranger things subreddit has 1.1mil members it's mostly harmless questions so don't feel like there's more homophobes actively against bylr, i mean uve seen that poll mleven lost in the first round (yeah we all voted but i doubt we would get mevil out just by us voting esp not when there was sm votes for it)

idk i hope this wasnt inunderstandable and hope ur feeling better tbh it's not worth not liking smth anymore just bc the homophobes are insane

[chirpsythismorning]

Well, it looks like I've been shadowbanned by the Stranger Things subreddit for talking about the strikes.

This might not seem like that big of a deal, but considering the ST subreddit might very well be moderated by Netflix themselves in some capacity, has me pretty pissed off rn.

For some context, Netflix creating the ST sub has already been speculated since the sub's inception. The first season of the show didn't even start filming until November of 2015, however the subreddit for the show was created a month before that, in mid October of 2015.

It's not uncommon for Netflix to create social media accounts across the board for all of their content in order to promote it online, and so it makes sense that in the process of getting filming ready, marketing was going about creating social media accounts on every platform (their other official accounts on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram were also created months in advance of filming as well).

Also worth noting that there is a separate sub called Hawkins AV Club, which fans created themselves to talk about the show and other things related to it that they weren't able to on the main sub, most commonly leaks, which are prohibited on the main one (Netflix don't like leaks...).

Recently though, I noticed all the strike related posts were getting removed, with it being flagged as breaking rule three.

Rule three is pretty simple, in that all it really states is that users cannot post stuff unrelated to the show.

As far as I know, the main ST sub has never made an official post about how the strikes qualify as being unrelated to the show, so it's not like this is some widely understood specific point that has been elaborated on that fans have to follow. To me, it looks like this rule operates as a loophole for a moderator to remove strike posts and list it as 'breaking rule three', without having to acknowledge how fucked up that is.

And so I wanted to test this theory and decided to post the picture of Finn picketing at Paramount Studios in support of SAG-AFTRA the other day.

Right after posting, I added the comment, 'Also ST sub if you delete this, you're confirming you have a Netflix bias'.

For the first hour, the post remained public and so luckily I was able to get some comments on it from other users in the sub. A majority of the comments just acknowledged the picture of Finn and voiced their support, though there was at least one condescending comment speaking negatively against the writers and actors striking. But most importantly, I got a few comments from fans asking why I was insinuating that the post would get deleted aka my time to shine.

I replied by saying that I noticed all the strike related posts were being removed for 'breaking rule three' and how it was bogus because plenty of other unserious posts, that are even less related to the show, stay up all the time. And so, considering the speculation over the years that Netflix played a part in creating the sub and therefore likely still has a stake in moderating it in some capacity, means they are essentially blocking fans from discussing the strike.

I then went into how ST has one of the biggest fandoms for a TV series and how the sub reflects that with over 1 million users. There are plenty of other fandoms out there that are much more niche and small in comparison to ST's base, that have been able to come together and make a big difference by donating and spreading the word as a community, and how it's kind of embarrassing considering our size, that we have not been able to come together to show support for our writers and actors in a tangible way.

And that's when I speculated how I didn't think it was a coincidence that one of the biggest fandoms in the world isn't able to even merely talk about the strikes, in the one place that affords them the ability to come together in the masses, to potentially have the ability to play role in putting pressure on the studios in order to reach a fair deal sooner than later.

These strikes literally depend on the writers and actors not talking about their content in order to put pressure on the studios, and this sub basically operates in the exact opposite way. It allows free for all discussions about the show, but doesn't allow any discussions of the strikes.

Who benefits from that? Netflix. The studios.

The reality is the strikes have EVERYTHING to do with the show. Making posts about an actor protesting so that the writers and actors of said show can continue production in a way that is more just and humane, is about the show. Technically, in a reality where things are never resolved as a result of this strike and the studios being greedy, the show could literally cease to continue. So again, this strike has EVERYTHING to do with the show.

I then ended my comment by saying that despite my suspicions, I hoped that I was wrong and that my post would stay up.

Returning to the sub the following day, I found that my post was not only removed, but also all of my comments were. Everyone else's comments remained including the anti-strike one, and there was also the addition of a pinned moderator comment explaining why the post was removed ie Rule 3.

Now, I have had some of my posts removed on Reddit in the past. Byler posts for example tend to get removed pretty swiftly because the comments get nasty and so that's the moderators usual excuse for removing those, however they don't say it outright with a moderator comment, you usually have to message them directly to get the gist of why it was removed. I've also posted memes before with them being removed and being flagged as breaking rule three, however I have never seen an actual moderator pin the details of the rule. They usually just tag Rule 3 at the top, with it being implied that you have to go look into their FAQ to read up on the rules yourself.

The way they removed my post just came off soooooooooo corporate to me, where the moderator(s) didn't even acknowledge what I said, but basically just proved my point by taking advantage of their rule loophole, by listing off the irrelevant argument against it based on said rule, with no further elaboration on what I actually speculated.

Initially, I wanted to make a post about what happened on here, but I sort of just shined it on because I already assumed they were going to remove it, and so all they did was confirm my suspicions.

But then today I was on the sub and tried to comment on a recent post, only to see that when I tried to reread it after posting, my comment wasn't showing up.

To test if it was a me problem, I went to another subreddit I'm in, Shrek (naturally), and commented on a post. Low and behold it showed up and stayed there...

I then went back to the ST sub to comment on a different recent post and again it did not show up right after I posted it.

So apparently I am a threat to the ST sub to the point where they do not want me commenting on posts anymore, specifically after I posted about the strike and the subs intense measures to prevent it from being discussed at all. Like... ya'll just literally proved my point tenfold.

Now, I do think there very well could be several moderators that are not associated with Netflix at all that are in charge of moderating the main sub. That's actually very likely. However, whether Netflix was involved from the beginning or not, it's also very likely they are now, as the sub is MASSIVE and they probably don't want an account on that scale to be controlled entirely by fans. That would mean 1 million people having access to leaks or anything and everything. Not being able to moderate that would be a pain in the ass (and we're seeing how now in the case of a strike, they also benefit from preventing certain posts from being seen).

So I think that either Netflix created the account themselves from the beginning and have recruited a handful of regular hardcore fans over the years to help moderate it, or they hopped on after a bunch of complications with leaks getting posted to hundreds of thousands of fans during s2-3, taking control at some point from the original moderator, only to join the mix of other moderators that already existed and are basically none the wiser.

In the case of either of those, they can play off that they are an unofficial ST reddit, all because they have a few fan moderators, when it's clear that is not the case.

Anyways, the ST sub has a Netflix (studio) bias and everything that's posted on there is likely moderated by someone that works for Netflix. So, keep that in mind.

[reluctantbylerblog]

they really have the gall to say they aren’t biased against byler when these are their reactions to both of these posts:

like c’mon bffr

[arionawrites]

‘dont tag byler if its not byler’ ‘dont tag noah if its anti noah’ ‘if its not stranger things dont tag stranger things’ oh my god?? literally shut the fuck up.

i know that’s usually like a rule in fandom spaces, i’ve been in fandom spaces since i was 12, trust me i’m aware, but that shit applies to like. stupid ship discourse. “i don’t like this ship because it doesn’t fit with MY favorite ship so i’m going to complain about it in the tag for the ship i don’t like” <- that’s shitty

but this isn’t fucking fandom discourse. this is literally supporting the slaughter of an entire people. this is noah schnapp in a video with stickers saying zionism is sexy. this is shawn levy supporting israel and illegal occupation. this is SHOULD BE IN THE TAGS.

why? because these people should not be getting support! this show should not be getting support!

noah schnapp wants palestinians to die. let’s be very clear about that. let me say it again:

noah schnapp wants palestinians to die.

i hope st5 fails. i hope noah schnapp loses his job. i hope shawn levy never knows peace. i hope every single person on that show who supports israel never goes a day without being haunted by the thousands of dead kids they supported the slaughter of.

i hope the sets for stranger things burn down. i hope noah schnapp can never go a day without being called a piece of shit. a supporter of genocide. a racist.

because that is exactly what he is.

i hope these people’s names are forever tied to these beliefs. i hope stranger things goes down in history as that one show that those zionists were on. i hope noah schnapp can never google his name without being confronted with how much of a monster he is.

“but he’s young! he’s jewish! he’s scared!”

he’s NINETEEN with FULL ACCESS TO THE INTERNET and ACTIVELY ATTENDING COLLEGE.

he isn’t posting about JUDAISM he is LITERALLY PASSING OUT STICKERS SAYING ZIONISM IS SEXY

and he sure as FUCK does NOT seem scared in ANY of the posts he has made since sharing that shitty multi page statement on his instagram that HE DIDN’T EVEN WRITE!! HIS FUCKING FELLOW ZIONIST PIECE OF SHIT FRIEND WROTE IT AND HE POSTED IT!! if HE was scared maybe he’d use his own words to say so, but nope!! he’s just a massive fucking cunt scumbag just like every other zionist and every other person who is doing anything other than condemning the actions of israel and the people who support it

rot in hell, stranger things. and take noah with you.

[sourscratched]

picking up the funny little guys like they’re miis in the plaza and dropping them into the fair au

extra doodles and notes etc

- josh and katrina have matching earrings designed to look like gyrfalcon feathers (they’re tiny but they’re there i swear)

- rachel of course has a wolf pendant for her hacker besties 🌙🐺

- janices necklaces are a hammer and artisanal ice

- janices “sword” is just a big handsaw (couldn’t find a way to reconcile medieval sword with coping saw in any realistic way so handsaw it is)

(B is the one i used, you could kinda pretend it’s a sword if you unfocus your eyes)

thank you to all the beautiful people in the discord and everyone who gave me ideas for the outfits!!! 💖💖💖💖 @wheelsupin-azarathmetrionzinthos @fatestitcherr @vexillologyisenjoyable @spacetime-storytime (let me know if i missed anybody who gave design ideas!)

(I drew the above one a few days before the discord chat about the renfaire au designs started so that’s why Josh’s outfit is weird)

couldn’t get this out of my head, wanted to draw jester josh so bad... didn’t know what to do for lorenzo and d’artanio so i just used my old design but slightly fancier lol

and jacques and felipe from flow of the rings can be there too

other potential ideas

- polypalooza came down dressed as their dnd characters and did some photoshoots

- brendan and his friends are of course also at the fair

zekes character is having the time of his life hanging out and taking selfies with all the Star Wars cosplayers

Jess’s character found a bunch of people to play tag with (and another group of people to act out the movie Tag while they do it)

zachs simultaneous karaoke guy maybe got into doing chants and tavern renditions of his favorite songs. and also considering the fact that the man accidentally sexted brendan in the opening number i think he probably already has the falconers contact info and is hoping to see them at the fair (lorenzo and d’artanio don’t own phones but luckily he happens to know a guy who trains carrier pigeons) (and his wife who sells stationery)

idk if byler made it to the fair, he may have been preoccupied trying to solve the mystery of how a mourning dove got mixed in with his pigeons and why it had a scrap of paper tied to its leg with “whoops wops widdly wops” scrawled on it

that evening there’s some musical acts down at the lake, including some boy band called Plato Could Never. no one’s super sure who they are but they’re local and apparently they’ve got killer harmonies

that’s all for now, thanks for reading my strange ramblings trying to connect everything for no reason at all

[starbylers]

This is a response to the person who sent me an ask about their doubt last week, just hiding it below incase people don’t want to see that :)

For context this is an in-depth explanation of:

Why Mike’s monologue had to happen

Hi! And yeah of course I can try. I fully understand why the monologue is throwing you off and as someone who doesn’t believe Mike was consciously lying you’ve come to the right place lol. I explained a little more about why I think that in the tags here if you wanted to read more about that perspective. I’ll probably link to a few other posts in this aswell because it ties into a lot of stuff I’ve made Byler analyses about before.

So the thing you said about his arc being ‘does he love her or not?’ is what I think is causing the issue, because that isn’t Mike’s arc. You’re right in that that’s the question that is being posed to the audience at face value, but that’s not his character journey. I have a long post about this here but essentially, the core driving force of a character cannot be another person—Mike needs to, and does, have his own personal inner conflicts which the Byler perspective provides (pressure to perform being grown up which is made incredibly obvious to us in s3, and dealing with the tumultuous process of figuring out that he is not straight in s4—I personally don’t think he’s there yet though, I think the full realisation of why he’s been having all these problems with Will & El is still to come).

The perspective of ‘yes he does’ love her just because he said the words is the crux of the entire plot twist, because it’s the conclusion people inevitably come to when they don’t pay attention to the details. (I don’t mean this insultingly at all btw! The whole thing is very subtle and easy to misinterpret). And ST is all about details, something which has been told to us by the creators and is also obvious in their use of foreshadowing/hinting/referencing in all aspects of the show, not just Byler.

Mike’s arc didn’t finish a season early. This has even been told to us i.e. by David talking about how s5 will pay off big characters including Mike, and Finn himself saying Mike still has a ‘journey’ to complete, and also just the fact that we don’t have the final season means no-one’s arcs are complete because the story isn’t complete. The fact that a “love confession” occurred at the midpoint (s4/5 are basically intended as two halves of one story—post explaining this here) is what makes it extremely obvious that Mlvn is not the conclusion of this tale.

The monologue can probably be said to have many purposes, but here are the main ones to me:

It presents a solution that ultimately ends in disaster, and associates that disaster with Mike and El’s romance. The monologue is so, so important in showing that Mike and El’s love did not, could not save the day. That it wasn’t strong enough—further proof from the script here. It shows that El got what she thought she wanted, only to discover it wasn’t what she really needed. It may have helped save her but it didn’t help her achieve her goals (save Max, kill Vecna). Kind of a metaphor for their entire relationship lol. It’s also supposed to show that not even an ‘I love you’ can fix their issues—they literally don’t speak afterwards. I’m not sure El’s fully processed all this yet, but figuring it out is what’s going to drive her arc towards self-actualisation and allow her to win next season.

It furthers the miscommunication plot between Mike and Will. It’s an indisputable fact that Will’s lie influenced that monologue. (We can tell just by watching but it’s also in the script if we needed even more proof lol. Not to mention: the track that plays behind it is You’re The Heart. The episode is called The Piggyback. Will’s face is right over Mike’s shoulder when he says ‘I love you’—Will is integral to and inseparable from that confession). That is so important, and something we’re supposed to notice. The whole point of the monologue is who’s really behind it (aka who’s really behind the painting & words that drove Mike’s speech), because this sets the stage for the Byler confrontation next season. It’s literally the Benverly poem plot from IT, something we know the Duffers have taken inspiration from.

If Mike hadn’t gone through with it, there would be no movement forward in the story, we’d enter s5 with exactly the same plot we just watched in s4—Mike trying to say he loves his girlfriend for the literal third season in a row. It’s boring, it’s not good entertainment. Mike finally saying it (and yet there still being problems between them & it occurring under questionable circumstances) pushes development in the narrative, sets up new conflict for the next season. Or, if Mlvn had decided to break up because of Mike not saying it in s4, that would’ve led to Byler becoming painfully obvious and ruining the twist they’ve been setting up for literal seasons. Everyone knows Will loves Mike, and if Mlvn broke up in that same season the entire audience would see the ending of the show coming from a mile away. Remember, Byler is being written as a plot twist. It’s very likely tied up with the supernatural plot too.

The content of the monologue itself is supposed to demonstrate precisely why Mlvn are finished, why they don’t work, and should raise people’s eyebrows about the legitimacy of Mike’s “confession”. Like you said…he remembered her t-shirt lol. It’s impersonal, nothing about why he loves her or what he loves about her; he literally, proveably, lies in it and anyone can verify that by watching s1; and he makes comparisons to superheroes which is the exact opposite of what El needs (her whole issue is thinking she’s either the monster or the superhero, when what she really needs is to stop thinking in such a binary, and learn to be El the teenage girl, the sister, the daughter, the friend, the human being, and find her power in that).

And something else they purposefully do this season is give us examples of other love confessions to contrast and show how ingenuine Mike’s really is: Jancy & Will (not my original post! I just expanded on op’s point).

Now as I said before I don’t think Mike intentionally lied. My opinion is that he knows deep down something is not right with their relationship and that he doesn’t feel how he should, but after Will’s speech and encouragement he choses to believe that he can love her, that he can be what she needs (except it’s not what she needs, it’s what Will needs lol). So not lying, but the monologue is basically a desperate attempt to a) grasp at straightness and b) save her life. He’s in denial, and also terrified of her dying. Very bad combo.

So yeah there’s my reasoning :) what you were saying about the potential of a familial ‘I love you’ is true, yeah it could’ve ended the plot line. But that’s the kind of thing that should be a conclusion to the entire story, something that occurs right before victory not disaster. Because then what would the implication be? That El’s family’s love isn’t enough for her to save the world?

And the way they will explain the monologue is so simple. It’s Will. It’s Will’s feelings that inspired Mike. All that needs to happen is for Mike to realise that, and the audience will realise it along with him. Mike: I only said that because of how much Will loves me? Audience: Oh! So he doesn’t actually love her! It’s Will, Will is who he’s meant to be with! It’s a classic ‘the person who was right in front of them all along’ trope. Once people understand that, it basically makes truly romantic interpretations of the monologue invalid.

I can’t say exactly how the ending will play out—I expect we’ll see the cracks in Mlvn shatter rapidly as s5 progresses, maybe more arguing/demonstration of their incompatibility or El asking Mike to say it to her face and he still can’t, Mike and Will simultaneously getting closer and it becoming increasingly obvious that Mike is in love—but I’m choosing to trust they’ll do it justice. Mike’s monologue is just a key turning point in the larger story.

Also just one last thing, you said he seems sincere and I do agree but I think it’s because his fear in that moment is extremely real, and there are truths within his monologue i.e. that he doesn’t want to lose her etc. so that’s where it’s coming from in my opinion :)

[lumism]

do u have any elmax centric fic recs? the ao3 tag is hard to navigate bc they’re always background for byler fics 😭

i entirely understand 😔 i've already made two ( x x ) elmax fic rec lists before, but here are a few lovely ones i've read since 🩷🫶

gentle: givehimthemedicine

Max touches a sore spot with a joke about how easily El could kill her, and it's suddenly really important to El that Max thinks of her as gentle.

be my eyes: givehimthemedicine

Max is recovering in the hospital, struggling with her blindness and having to rely on others to tell her what she can't see for herself. Secretly being in love with El doesn't help. El wants her trust and goes full cornball about it.

tying you to me: andiwriteordie

The one in which El learns some things about herself, about love, and about the pretty little string that ties her to Max.

the luck of the draw (only draws the unlucky): delusionaltogether

Living with Max has its ups and downs. Only most of it is El's fault.

i swear it was something: delusionaltogether

Every time El thinks she has this society thing figured out, someone throws her for a loop.

falling like stars (falling in love): bookinit

the one where el would do anything for max, even the impossible.

sugar rush: myflymusic

When Steve and Robin both come down with a cold, El and Max agree to cover their shifts at Scoops Ahoy. It's just scooping ice cream. How hard can it be?

[flushed-for-the-trolls]

Byler Is Toxic As Fuck And Sucks

Honestly, as of S4 Vol. 2 Byler is this toxic relationship of Will's codependency and obsession of Mike and Mike's staunch refusal to grow as a person unless led by the fucking hand (presumably by Will).

And the only other self evident fact worse than the one I just laid out is that no matter what, fans of the show will NEVER acknowledge any of this.

The fact of the matter is: If these sort of events transpired between friends, like:

(Being talked down to after your friends ignored your whole ass D&D campaign ((I don't play D&D but from what I've heard, that shit doesn't just happen on a whim and they typically take several hours to see through, so double ouchies there)).

Having your lack of a romantic/sexual desire being thrown in your face and treated as the problem when it's absolutely not,

Giving up D&D in honor of your party disbanding... Only to have them join a D&D club the second they get into High School,

Being ignored for a whole ass year,

Having your supposed best friend FORGET YOUR BIRTHDAY, then blow up at YOU at it when you're ((understandably)) upset and moody,

Having to carry the emotional burden OF said friend on 2 separate occasions, including ((and I CANNOT believe I am saying this)) giving your friend a pep-talk and painting to convince him that HIS OWN GIRLFRIEND STILL LOVES HIM

and

... Ugh... What I can only describe as the BIGGEST slap to the face. the monologue.)

You would ABSOLUTELY cut off a shitty excuse for a friend. At this point this ship is just romanticized toxicity and I've just stopped loving it.

When I see Will still simping for his deadbeat excuse of a friend I just roll my eyes. It's not cute, it's disturbing and pathetic. This isn't love, it's romanticized Stockholm Syndrome.

Will doesn't need Mike, he needs a firm sit-down on how to cut ties and move on with his life.

Will deserves someone better, and so does El, for that matter.

Anyways, this was supposed to be 100x more coherent and structured, but I switched off the tab and when I switched back to the one I was writing this on, it refreshed without my input and I lost it all, so fuck it, this is all you're getting.

Just about every ship's fandom sucks, but by God does the cake go to Byler fans, sorry but not really tbh.

I will say tho: Kinda sucks going through the Anti Byler tag, cuz it's either shipping discourse (Hell) or people being straight up homophobic (mega hell)

[booksandpaperss]

Quick list of analysis posts I’m currently working on:

-similarities between s4 and IT chapter one, and how we can use IT chapter two to theorize for s5

-the importance of raising the stakes in writing and why that makes byler the only satisfying ending for Mike and Will (aka writing 101 with byler)

-s5 byler will parallel s2 byler but will also be a role reversal of s1 byler (ft discussion of byler and lumax parallels in s4 and what it means for the plot of s5)

-S4 jopper was actually some massive foreshadowing for the plot of s5 byler (ft the Mike hostage theory)

-inspired by @gayofthefae analysis posts on vecna “mercy killing” the suicidal: similarities in Mike and Max’s mental health, their parallels, and how this ties into who vecna targets and why he kills them (ft why Will’s love completely on its own won’t be enough to save Mike and more lumax parallels)

-comparing Mike and Will’s arcs in season 3 and 4 (and what that says about season 5)

- parallels (visual and textual) between Will’s van scene confession and Mike’s she’d scene monologue and what that can help us conclude about season 4 Mike and season 5 byler

-parallels between the shed scene and the van scene monologue

-a third perspective to the two different common interpretations of what the heck was going on with Mike in season 3

-Henry’s episode 7 monologue and Hamlet parallels (ikr I was shocked at first too but it’s very much a thing)

-Will Byers and his fear of Abandonment

Some of these are gonna get lengthy but if you wanna be tagged in any reblog this to lmk 👀

[crucifiedkiss]

◌ೆ୧　 YOUR MAIL HAS BEEN DELIEVERED ♡

𓈒⠀⠀⁺⠀𝜗 crucifiedkiss ╱ finnverse x gn! reader 𝜚

ꨄ︎ hcs ++ ms woa finnverse ⏤ ﹙glue song﹚ 🪽 ˖ ׁ

⁩  ಲ ͏ㅤ ׅㅤㅤcw: fluff ++ light angst, accidentally dialouge heavy, headcanons (hcs) && drabbles, ways of affection (woa <- love languages), mentioned byler :P, seasons not specified (?), LONG !!! (i had 22 lock IN), mentions of mileven (not hating !! some ppl just rlly hate that ship 😓), liking someone whilst already dating someone else ++ hints at breaking up, alcohol ++ drugs, implications of abuse, bad parenting, ooc ???, etc. .. overall cute tho !!ㅤ✿𝅼

( ｡>﹏<) "not all the characters finn has acted as (ofc) !!! only did the ones that r especially popular or more known ^^ !!! only ft. mike wheeler and boris pavlikovsky cause im eepy (ITS 2AM ???) !! enjoy ml 🫂 this took FOREVSS RAHHH !!!" ⏤ c.k.　と

𝜗୧ ּ݂⠀💌 mike wheelers way of affection ﹗

　　　⏤　 BEFORE DATING HIM: ok so. u know how in st when mike rlly starts to realize his feelings for will (byler❗), how he can barely even show physical affection ?? definitely not physical affection cause of that😓 its just cause he is kinda jittery/nervous, he will get better i swear !!! looking at the show, mike loves giving gifts to eleven, so im alright to say his way of affection is gifts :3 probably gives u random things, but mainly just the ordinary things u would give someone that r romantic such as flowers, chocolates (IF UR ALLERGIC IM SO SORRY !!! HE WOULD PROBABLY GIVE U A SUBSTITUTE FOR IT LIKE UR FAVORITE CANDY/CANDIES OR WHTVR U PREFER ML !! ^_^ CAN PPL BE ALLERGIC TO FLOWERS ?? IF ALLERGIC TO FLOWERS THINK OF IT AS SMTH ELSE IM SO SORRY AGAIN RAHHHH😓), etc. !! would be rlly shy abt it, especially because ur not even dating him yet .. swears on his LIFE that the gifts r platonic. yeah right ... just friends get u ur favorite food and flowers that smell like hes sprayed perfume of sorts onto them for them to smell even better then normally .. ur painfully obvious micheal wheeler !!! most sweaty palms ??? lowkey gross but pls forgive him!

mike stood stiff infront of you, lopsided smile on his lips with his arms extended out, in his hands holding out your favorite flowers that were all bundled together and neatly tied with a little ribbon, a small tag on it saying where its from that he mustve forgotten to rip off. hes heard you mention your favorite type before, so why not get you some? he stared intently at your reaction, looking for any type of disgust or discomfort in your eyes, analyzing to the point it couldve came off as creepy, but he didnt want his gift to be hated or something! after much awkward silence that felt like hours—realistically being less then a minute, but he was impatient—, he noticed you return a more heartfelt smile that made his stomach churn with a feeling he just couldnt describe. you grabbed the flowers from his sweaty palms that left the plants green slightly moist. he chuckled, quickly returning his arms back to his side—not before wiping his hands on his jeans to try to wipe away the gross sweat that had gathered just at the thought of you.

your smile was fond. it made him feel so sickly.

"thank you," he heard you say, leaving him to nod before mumbling out hastily that he needed to be somewhere, using the excuse of needing to see eleven ... right. eleven. his beloved girlfriend. yep. he offered a small wave goodbye before speeding off, mentally scolding himself. why did he get you flowers?? do people give friends flowers that smelt ever-so nicely?? his head spun with thoughts but he pushed them away. he needed to go see eleven ...

　　　⏤　 DURING DATING HIM: physical touch, words of affirmation, and still gift giving because yippee :3 in st, he is often near eleven and close to her (although i think eleven often ensues the physical touch first, i would say this still counts !), and words of affirmation just because he is a silly boy. showing love ?? through words ?? SIGN HIM UP !!! praise of any sorts is amazing. loves complimenting u ^_^ gift giving is obvious of course :) i think he eventually kinda fell out of giving gifts, but still does it more to remind u of when he used to be a big baby (pre-dating) or just does it for u to be happy if u rlly wish to want gifts (finds out how to get that money somehow ..) :) ur his everything tbh😞 pls i love him😭

mike grinned softly, looking at the first pair of flowers he had ever gotten you before you two started dating, the tag he had left on it originally now taken off thankfully. it was in a gorgeous vase that was a mix of blue, his favorite color, and your favorite color. they had grown beautifully with the proper care. he let his eyes gaze away from the pot of flowers, sunshine rays shining brightly onto them, making eye contact with you. his eyes sparkled with joy and crinkled due to his smile, black hair a little frizzed but overall handsome on him, and his skin was as beautifully pale as ever– if that was a compliment.

"you kept them?" he questioned quietly, not wanting to break the adoring peace between you and him.

"why wouldnt i have?" you responded back, earning a playful eye roll from him before getting abruptly pulled to his side, or atleast, more than you already were. his hand rested comfortably over the fabric of your clothing, just on the mid-torso to be respectful. he giggled, giving your body a loving squeeze.

"love you, pretty," he said as charmingly as possible– of course it was as charming as he wouldve wanted, why wouldnt it have been?

𝜗୧ ּ݂⠀💌 boris pavlikovskys way of affection ﹗

　　　⏤　 physical touch and emotional (the idea that people express and receive love in different ways, and that supporting a partner through difficult times is an important part of love/connecting with your loved one during tough times when they need your emotional support and resilience. aligning with this love language means that you are ready to be supportive of your partner's emotions during difficult times, and expect them to do the same for you) obviously. why wouldnt it be ??? do u see how touchy he is with theo😭 ??? and emotional because, like, have u SEEN how his father is ??? almost sobbed watching that one scene goodbye. my sweet lil thing :(( although emotional is a least known type of way to show affection, i think its rlly interesting !! i was gonna say words of affirmation aswell but like. this is BORIS we r talking about😓 maybe calls u nicknames in different languages and stuff but wont ever rlly praise u or anything like that (srry guys❗)

boris was a troublemaker, of course. that bit was obvious– he was probably on drunk and high everyday to be honest. but falling in love? with theo, he was already kinda in love with him. it made him sick to his stomach. loving was never really his.. thing. liking one person was enough, but two?? he was being driven into insanity at this point trying to choose who he... 'truly loved' or whatever fairytales say. he never really read books, how would he know? each night after he either left yours or theos house or after the two of you left, he was left grumbling to himself in the dead silence of his house. was loving someone really this hard? this is so tedious! and dumb!

today was just another day, drinking vodka straight from the bottle at your house, sat up at the front of your mattress, theo at his side whilst you were tidying up your room– not something you did often. having guests over though, your parental guardian had insisted to clean your room. boris stared blankly at you as he took the vodka away from his mouth, glancing over at theo for a second and handing the alcohol to him before looking back at you. he caught the small smile of theos mouth just before turning away ... that dumb smile.

"just sit down. thought you dislike cleaning?" boris questioned in that broken english. he was still learning.

"i do but im forced to clean it each time you guys come over," you huffed.

boris hummed, not even giving you a second to respond before you were yanked to sit next to him, bed leaning down at the new weight on it. you side eyed him for a moment, feeling his hand linger on your wrist he had originally pulled you by before letting you go, instead throwing his arm around your shoulder and pulling you close, keeping it touchy as always. you narrowed your eyes at him for a moment before just shrugging. you supposed you could just clean it later.

"alright, alright. i will join you and 'potter'." you sassily remarked. boris rolled his eyes, looking over at theo who had placed the vodka down by now. he stared for a moment before just pulling him close aswell, two of his favorite people by his side.

　　　⏤　 can u guys guess whether or not i rlly like boris by how long i wrote his. and my favorite trope. RAHHH I LOVE WRITING THIS SM ??? ALSO i couldnt rlly fit the emotional love language in there so like☹ anyways um | DURING DATING HIM: i think it would be the same. physical touch and emotional. i feel he rlly isnt to like, open about exploring, so he just sticks with what he likes and doesnt experient at all😭 the only thing he experiments with is different alcohols to find his next favorite lowkey !!! i feel as time passes and now actually dating u, how touchy he is just gets worse ... be careful guys he is the type to absolutely GRIP on you when cuddling or smth similar ^_^"

bruises. literally everywhere. boris was a cuddly man, that was a given, but he really did love just digging his fingers into your skin to the point it gave literal MARKS. you didnt mind to much, thinking it was sweet. he had good intentions of course!! arms wrapped around your waist, you were tightly pressed against boris' body, somehow managing to be comfortable. sure, you were gonna just get even more marks, but it was a casual thing by now. plus, atleast boris was happy– alot happier than before, thats for sure. previously, he and his father had a little ... squabble, lets say.

"bad parenting." boris had mumbled, breaking the silence.

you were going to say huh before your mouth became a 'O' in realization that he was talking about his father. you were quick to agree, nodding your head. he truly was a horrible father.

"dont worry about it, boris. its in the past," you tried reassuring.

past as in the last 20 minutes, but you still tried helping.

you only heard him sigh, mumbling something in russian under his breath—likely about him hating his dad or something—before pulling you closer, if even possible. seemed you would be here for a while as perusal as he practically would hold you captive– you werent really complaining though. he was rather warm for a guy so sickly looking.

[existingonanotherplane]

Happy Stranger Things day :D!!! Byler tag is winnin rn c:

Here’s Part 2 of the ‘i love you’ series, sorry it took so long c:

Uh oh, Michael! That look you’re giving is a little tender 😟

Mike is bored as hell.

Mike is bored as hell.

Who knew that the government slowly taking over the remnants of his home town while some dude, who he guesses is obsessed with Will, is trying to end life as they know it would be so slow.

Not that he wants any life ending things to happen. He just never thought he'd find himself bored, of all things, while the world was trying to end.

It was the day after the talk with Will about the painting, which if hes being honest, he still feels really good about. Maybe he'd been a little sappy saying that he loved him but it was true! And he didn't regret it.

It's been a few months since everythings started and other than the very obvious changes that have happened like the weather or the gates, Mike has been feeling like he's been getting hit with surprise after surpise every other week.

Dealing with the aftermath of the injured friends, the town ripping into four, Max was in a god damned coma, and Eddie-

Mike didnt like thinking about that moment. Even if things were marginally better now. So he doesn't. The feeling lingers anyway.

Point is lots of things changed and they haven't stopped.

It wasn't long after that that Will and El had decided he'd let the rest of the party (and extended party as well) that they'd discovered some kind of hidden power in Will. They'd explained how they weren't sure why it did'nt manifest in Hawkins before they moved, other than the True Sight and Now Visions, that there was more that he could do.

Mike is pretty sure they're still keeping an ability of his hidden but from what they can understand, his powers are similar to El in the since of like, moving things with his mind and going into the Void. The differ though, because Will's makes things react like how the upside down or its creatures does.

Like flickering lights or sometimes, when he's feeling strongly, particles will appear around him. There's a few theories going around with this, the craziest one, thanks to Dustin, is that maybe Will is a walking gate.

Mike isn't sure about that but he knows Will has always been tied to the UD since things have started. Will feels like he can't escape the upside down but maybe its the other way around?

He thinks that's maybe why Will was able to sense that Eddie was still barely alive down there. He and El had been able to locate him, and although it had caused a lot of heartache they got him out. So now he sits in the hospital with Max.

Mike wonders how many more times he's going to lose something to that hellhole only for it to come right back.

He shakes his head, not really sure how he ended up thinking about all that in the first place.

Head knocking back on the couch, Mike releases an honestly extreemly dramtic and long sigh. The meeting they had schedueled for today could not get here any faster.

'knock knock knock'

Was that the door? The meeting isn't for another three hours so honestly Mike isn't really expecting it when he opens the door to find none other than Will standing outside.

"Will!" a smile flys over his face before he could think otherwise. Not that he'd want to anyways.

"Hey!" Will greets back in a tone similar to his own. His own pretty smile gracing his face.

Mike takes a moment to give Will a once over. Not for any particular reason but he thinks it only makes sense to look when Will is constanly looking as nice as he does. Even in an apocolypse, Will still manages.

Today he's wearing a turtle neck, something they've all started doing since the weather took a turn for the colder, some baggy pants and the same boots hes been wearing since he found them a couple weeks ago at the shelter. It's a simple outfit but Will looks good anyways.

"Uh, Mike?"

Mike's eyes snap back up to Will's face. He looks a little red and Mike wonders if he's cold. He backs away from the door frame so Will doesn't freeze, recognizing that the weather, while still super cold, is actually good in the whole "not raining poision" kind of way.

Will shuffles past him, giving him a strange look on the way in. Mike realizes that he has yet to respond.

"Sorry! Zoned out there for a second." He says in a rush, glancing back over at his friend. Will nods, looking a little confused or maybe concerned, but Mike is too focused on how cozy he looks and that same tingling feeling he had gotten yesterday returns.

Maybe he needs to the doctor? He walks over and wraps Will in a hug instead.

"What's going on? You're here so early." Mike says, leaning his cheek on the top of his head.

He feels Will adjust a bit, moving a little closer.

"Yeah, they were trying to rope me into more cabin repairs."

Mike lets out a breath of air, laughing. They'd been staying there for a while and there's still repairs that they've had to do. At least that giant hole in the roof is gone.

"Oh yeah," he says instead, "we wouldn't want that. Can't have you working too hard." Mike finishes, squeezing Will a little more into the hug.

Will lets out a laugh, knocking his hand against Mike's side and making him jump back to avoid the impromptu tickle attack he would've gotten.

"Says the guy who breaks down the moment someone even thinks of excersize." Will says through a laugh.

Mike rolls his eyes. He's not that opposed to working out, no need for dramatics.

"I don't think you're any better, Will."

And that might be a lie actually, because Will has defintly filled out compared to Mike's own lankiness. The height is nice though and he's managed to keep his title as the tallest in the group, althogh Lucas had almost taken that from him.

Mike reaches for Will's hand, correcting a little instead for his wrist. It might be a little weird if he just grabbed his hand. Before pulling him out of the walkway and towards the basement.

"Remind me. Why do I talk to you again?" Will says behind him and Mike bites down a smile, knowing he's about to say something stupid.

"Can't resist the Wheeler-" he lets out, stretching the second half of his name.

Will goes dead silent but Mike knows that if he looks back Will would be struggling to hold in a laugh.

He giggles to himself when he hears a "Dude. No." instead.

Time passes pretty quickly after that. He and Will hung out for a while. Mostly talking or playing games or even just sitting there and enjoying each other's company.

Everyone eventually showed up and the meeting started. With things being a waiting game there wasn't much to say. It became an overview of the plan they'd come up with some adjustments here and there, scheduling training for various people, talking about supply runs and then just general updates.

All in all it went smoothly but now everyone was packing things up. It was getting late and there's a curfew now. Not to mention, being out after dark was overall dangerous. Mike didn't enjoy everyone leaving the way they did but he knew they had to.

They had just finished their goodbyes and were loading into their respective cars. Will had ridden his bike over to his house and was now getting on it to ride it over to his family's car before Mike stopped him again, placing his hand over the bike's handlebar. And subsequently, Will's hand.

Mike didn't want anyone to leave really but it felt especially strong with Will in that second. Maybe he should ask him to stay over? Wait, no he can't do that either because of the early morning training he had.

Mike sighs, hunching slightly and looking back down at their joined hands, smiling at the sight. Palm tingling where it sits on top of Will's.

Wait-

He glances back up at Will, who looks a little flushed, probably from the cold, but is looking at him curiously. He and El had started doing this thing where they tilt their head in confusion. He's not sure who started it but it was insanely adorable and maybe Mike should say something instead of just staring at his best friend actually.

"Um, there's a meeting tomorrow too, right?"

That might've been the dumbest thing he's said. They'd just got out of the meeting. The next one's date was written on a board downstairs. Mike had been the one to write it. He wants to slap himself.

If Will thought it was weird he didn't say anything.

He smiles a little as he replies, very easily and not at all strange like Mike had just been, "Yeah. It's at the cabin."

And Mike knew that because when they had said it Will had bumped his shoulder with his own and shot him a smile so of course Mike committed it to memory. Which is a normal thing to do. Will hasn't been smiling as often and not to mention it's a great smile so why wouldn't he?

Plus it's like his duty to commit it to memory as his best friend.

Mike nods a few times, probably too many, hunching down a little more to look at Will's face in full.

"Cool… Welp, uh, goodnight William."

He's an idiot.

He hears Will mumble an almost inaudible "Ew, what the hell." A small smile playing on his lips, which Mike isn't looking at. Or well he is looking at them but it's a totally normal amount.

He pulls his eyes back up to Will's just in time to see him roll his own and Mike thinks he loves him.

"Goodnight, Michael-" Will starts, exasperated and fond.

"Love you. Get home safe." Mike finishes. Voice sounding sweeter than even he was expecting.

Will's face looks much like the last time. A little shocked but there's a smile starting to form. Mike watches some color flood into his cheeks and a full body tingle settles itself over him.

"Will! C'mon!" Jonathan yells over from inside of the car. Successfully snapping Mike out of whatever trance he had been in. He was definitely staring at his mouth for too long that time.

"I'm comin'!" Will shouts back, placing his feet onto the bike pedals.

He looks back at Mike briefly, a little sheepish when he says

"Sorry. I'll be safe." He pushes off beginning to pedal towards the waiting car but mike doesn't miss his words,

"Love you too, Mike." He can hear the smile in his voice.

Maybe Mike's heart melts a little but he wouldn't tell you that.

_________

Notes: (might post this on AO3 if i finish it haha)

And that's that. part 2 c: Would y'all believe that Mike is still not aware of his feelings :D. He'll figure it out c: Now it's time to start part 3. Happy stranger things day!

<<<Previous part

[sleepy-moron]

A lot of tag discussions about gay Mike have happened recently and it has brought a point that I was aware of but hadn’t really posted about to the front of my brain again:

Will is defined as gay almost entirely outside being attracted to guys. Will’s queer coding is implicitly tied to other people’s perceptions of him, mostly revolving around Will behaving in ways that aren’t seen as “masculine”. In my mind (being that I didn’t really get into the show until season 2) the second we see Will at the snow ball dancing with that girl but looking at Mike I knew he was intentionally being written as gay rather than just a character that has gay coding. This is a pretty common thing, to define gayness by the way a character looks and acts rather than being attracted to men. Usually the big exception to this is characters who follow the armored closet gay trope. While these characters are defined by being macho guys who constantly insult and accuse other people of being gay, they usually do show attraction to other guys to make sure the audience understands the dude in the closet is actually gay himself.

Will has character depth and he probably wasn’t written to conform to gay stereotypes but he is definitely read that way by the audience. People have been taking the more reserved artistic kid and making him much “softer” or more feminine than he actually is for years because that’s how media has trained them to view gay people. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that people started saying Will is going to become a bad guy, or die at the same time they started calling him a home wrecker. There’s an implicit mold that a lot of gay characters follow so people project traits associated with that formula onto all gay characters.

Mike is a very different story. Mike is gay coded through symbolism and a noted disinterest (and in some cases displeasure) in girls. Sure he’s not athletic but Mike certainly breaks the mold a bit for gay characters. He’s defensive and reckless, the archetypical generic guy hero who gets the girl and lives happily ever after. How many action oriented shows and movies can you think of that have a gay dude as the main hero without using the hero being gay prominently in marketing? I can’t think of any but I also don’t watch a lot of tv so I could be wrong….

The audience has no idea what gay coding for a character like Mike is really supposed to look like because it’s not something that happens. If a character is gay coded he either never expresses any interest in women (including having a female love interest) or it’s made very clear through either explicit confirmation or use of general character tropes that this character is meant to be gay. Mike has a girlfriend, and while I think after s2 the show goes out of its way to suggest Mike isn’t into girls he doesn’t act the way gay characters who have girlfriends are expected to act. Mike acts like the standard loser dude with a girlfriend who should be way out of his league is expected to. He has trouble emotionally opening up with her, he’s controlling and overprotective, and he complains about women while burping loudly after El dumps him. People can’t conceive the idea of Mike being with El for (in their mind the whole show but actually only two seasons) for as long as he is without the show making sure you know this character is gay.

The tropes for establishing bi characters work very differently. Usually either the character is seen being attracted to men and women very soon after being introduced or they are usually assumed to be straight until they either come out as bi or figure out that they’re bi. This feels like a much more reasonable way to make Mike queer and result in endgame byler because this is something that has precedent. Heck they literally did the same thing with one of the robins from Batman like a year ago.

[castlebyersafterdark]

hi, do you have an opinion on the fic A Cruel summer w you? its always one i think of in regards to 'how explicit is byler fic realistically' cos the world building and description of both emotion and physical desire are very detailed, but they never go beyond kissing and everything about the set up (summer camp away from prying eyes, age 19 byler) suggests these boys would be going beyond kissing, but the story never goes there and the tags even say 'friends with benefits - the benefits are just kissing, shut up' or something, which speaks to me of self-censorship based on audience responses rather than doing service to this story. maybe themes of shame will come up later and i really hope they do, but for now it certainly reads as self-censorship which is such a shame as these authors, let loose, could be wonderful. perhaps theres a nsfw version they keep private, but i found it interesting they chose such elaborate details and these ages for the characters and expect people to believe they would stop at kissing... it's either a reflection of feminine emotionality (lets face it, byler in fics are often, psychologically, girls who are called mike and will) or it's a microcosm for whats happening in media at large which is lots of PG films and this huge lack of sexuality and sensuality in order to draw in as big an audience as possible (you mentioned being a former marvel fan, maybe this relates to that?)

Prefacing this one to say - nothing is a personal critique to follow here! Personal taste and a read on greater fandom in general!

So, I've skimmed it. I've checked out most of the 'big fics' in the fandom. Envious over authors who can craft long fics. Wish I could, but it's never gone well outside of original writing for me, so I'll leave it to the people who expertly weave these hyper detailed long form fanfictions.

This fic in particular looks so lovingly crafted and intricate in it's worldbuilding which is cool - it's just not for me. I'm picky with the setting for these characters and I do prefer stuff either 'ambiguous' in time period or accurate to the era (80s/90s), unless it's pure AU not based in reality (like a fantasy or dnd au). I like that the show is from a certain era so modern stuff just doesn't do it for me. I also am not a fan of rivals/enemies to whatever for them. I'll read one where they meet differently than as kids, but I'm just not fond of the trope with them otherwise. Which is fine! A lot of people like it and I'm sure a lot write it well! Just my personal taste for Byler.

So, I don't know too much about the fic in great length, as I've skipped around just to see the vibes, see where it went, etc. And here's my thing: no one HAS to write sex scenes/smut/spicy fics/whatever you want to label it. That's ok. It's the total lack of acknowledgement sometimes that gets me confused, like what do we think a real relationship is for Mike and Will? Why does it have to be as chaste as I see everywhere? Topic's been talked to death, but again, it's probably tied in to all the points you've made. Nineteen year olds at a summer camp are probably sneaking around and going further than making out. So. Ehhh. Is it dedication to the craft and with the writing style being so detailed, a fade to black or simple allusion to something beyond PG would feel out of place to not then go into detail, because of disinterest in writing a sex scene? Self-censorship due to the fandom's pressures of judgement? Unsure, and you can write what you want, of course. This is just one of the only fandoms where I've seen the defenses raised alllll the tiiiime where you need to overly reassure that you weren't thinking about or implying sex. Which I think is a disservice more often than not when you're exploring any sort of queer romance. Why do we have to be so sanitized?

Don't even get me started on Marvel, we're currently going through a messy and bitter divorce. But this is a good article I've bookmarked because the title is a great toss-out line when talking about the state of today's media: Everyone is Beautiful and No One is Horny . Not exactly what we're talking about, but I wanted to reference the title and the article is just an interesting read or re-read.

[jxncywarrior]

Stranger Things characters and ships as Taylor Swift albums

Part Nine: evermore

*Disclaimer: I’m tagging all the ships and characters featured. I’m gonna try not to be biased. MOST of these are strictly based on canon. No hate to ANY ships or shippers.*

willow: Steddie (Eddie’s POV)

“They count me out time and time again. Life was a willow and it bent right to your wind. But I come back stronger than a 90's trend”

champagne problems: Stancy (Nancy’s POV)

“Love slipped beyond your reaches and I couldn't give a reason”

gold rush: Byler (Will’s POV)

“I don't like that falling feels like flying 'til the bone crush”

‘tis the damn season: Ronance (Nancy’s POV)

“You could call me babe for the weekend. 'Tis the damn season, write this down. I'm stayin' at my parents' house and the road not taken looks real good now”

tolerate it: Will to Lonnie

“Tell me I’ve got it wrong somehow. I know my love should be celebrated. But you tolerate it”

no body, no crime: Stancy (Steve’s POV)

“Good thing my daddy made me get a boating license when I was fifteen. And I've cleaned enough houses to know how to cover up a scene. Good thing Este's sister's gonna swear she was with me ("She was with me dude"). Good thing his mistress took out a big life insurance policy”

happiness: Byler (Will’s POV)

“When did all our lessons start to look like weapons pointed at my deepest hurt? Ihope she'll be a beautiful fool. Who takes my spot next to you”

dorothea: Byler (Mike’s POV)

“The stars in your eyes shined brighter in Tupelo. And if you're ever tired of being known for who you know. You know, you'll always know me”

coney island: Byler (Mike’s POV)

“The fast times, the bright lights, the merry-go. Sorry for not making you my centerfold”

ivy: Byler (Will’s POV)

“I wish to know the fatal flaw that makes you long to be magnificently cursed. He's in the room. Your opal eyes are all I wish to see”

cowboy like me: Stancy (Steve’s POV)

“And the skeletons in both our closets plotted hard to fuck this up. And the old men that I've swindled really did believe I was the one. And the ladies lunching have their stories about when you passed through town. But that was all before I locked it down”

long story short: Elmax (El’s POV)

“'Cause I fell from the pedestal. Right down the rabbit hole. Long story short, it was a bad time. Pushed from the precipice. Clung to the nearest lips”

marjorie: Jonathan to Will

“What died didn't stay dead. What died didn't stay dead. You're alive, you're alive in my head”

closure: Stancy (Steve’s POV)

“It wasn't right. The way it all went down. Looks like you know that now”

evermore: Jancy (Jonathan’s POV)

“I thought of you (all the things that will be lost now). In the cracks of light (can we just get a pause?). I dreamed of you (to be certain we'll be tall again). (If you think of all the costs). It was real enough (whether weather be the frost). To get me through (or the violence of the dog days). (Out on waves being tossed). But I swear (is there a line that we could just go cross?). You were there”

right where you left me: Byler (Will’s POV)

“Did you ever hear about the girl who got frozen? Time went on for everybody else, she won't know it. She's still 23 inside her fantasy. How it was supposed to be. Did you hear about the girl who lives in delusion? Break-ups happen every day, you don't have to lose it”

it’s time to go: El to Brenner

“15 years, 15 million tears. Begging 'til my knees bled. I gave it my all, he gave me nothing at all. Then wondered why I left. Now he sits on his throne in his palace of bones. Praying to his greed. He's got my past frozen behind glass. But I've got me”

Links to other parts of this series: Debut, Fearless, Speak Now, Red, 1989, reputation, Lover, folklore

[wheeler-things]

Henry Creel, Vampires, the Consumption of the Soul, and Will Byers with Powers

Oh look it’s time for yet another longwinded s5 Thinking Thoughts post with an off the rails ending. I feel like I’m getting predictable.

Well, anyway, I talked about this in the tags of a post that I reblogged at one point, but it's currently 20 minutes to midnight and I should either be sleeping or working on writing for the campaign I'm DMing in the new year, but instead all I can think about is Henry Creel and Will having powers and the way that Henry talks about his victims/how they appear in his mindscape. And, you know, also the fact that I've read all the currently available The Locked Tomb books and they left me scarred, and also altered my brain chemistry in such a way that once I thought about this possibility I couldn't stop thinking about it..

So, yeah. Time for me to talk about Henry Creel, and the way he talks about his victims, and I know I put this in the Byler tag, and I promise that's not just because of the target demo. I will eventually circle around to talking about Mike and Will in the context of this post in an unnecessarily angsty way.

But for now... Henry.

In s4e7, Henry tells El: "I could not do that. I could not close off my mind and join in the madness. I could not pretend. And I realized, I didn't have to. I could make my own rules. I could restore balance to a broken world. A predator... but for good. […] With each life I took, I grew stronger. More powerful. They were becoming a part of me. But I was still a child, and I did not yet know my limits. And it nearly killed me."

This monologue is, honestly, full of a bunch of really interesting things, and I'm can think of at least three posts that I currently have on the brain that I'm going to pick it apart for, but in terms of this specific post, I've bolded the bits I'll be focused on, and I'll be back to it in a bit.

Later in that scene, El looks to the dead bodies of the other lab kids, and Henry says: "They're not gone, Eleven. They're still with me. In here."

What I think is really important about this whole scene, right off the bat, is that Henry is not immediately hostile upon realizing that El has disobeyed him and left the closet. Regardless of whether you believe he had any amount of genuine affection for her or not, I think it's really important to note that the way in which Henry bonds with El/gains her trust is through teaching her things. He teaches her how to use her emotions in order to harness her powers more effectively. He teaches her to start questioning Brenner's motives. He teaches her about Sotaria (which also ties in with the previous thing). He teaches her how to escape the lab through the sewers (which I believe it's implied is how she got out of the lab in s1, though I'm not going back to check because I'm rewatching s1 for a different analysis and I don't want to lose my place). So the fact that he's still using his gentle voice with El here, and the fact that he's stopping to explain not only his motivations, but the fact that the people he kills are "not gone" and are "in here" [gestures to his head], suggests to me that he's attempting to teach her one last thing. Something that might make her okay with the fact that he just murdered a whole lab full of literally every person she's ever known save Kali and Brenner.

And this is so easy to dismiss as the ramblings of a mad man, or as him saying something to the effect of "I never forget any of the people that I kill". But I think it's a little dismissive to ignore what Henry says as simply the words of someone entirely disconnected from reality. Obviously, he is deluded. He talks about himself as though he is not also human, and he actively seems to want to kill everyone except possibly El and Will? But having delusions about his importance and identity and ideology is not the same thing as being deluded into believing something untrue about his powers/into falsely believing that his victims are kept alive inside him somehow. Moreover, although this last line in isolation could make sense in the context that he keeps the memories of his victims alive in his own mind, the rest of what he says does not line up with that. Nor does the fact that we see Chrissy's mangled body (and possibly some of the other victims, I'm so sorry I cannot remember-- but definitely at least one of the victims is seen in the mindscape) twisted into his mindscape.

So... now I'm going to go back to the earlier part of his speech and pick apart the bolded parts.

"I could make my own rules." The last time we heard that, it was El was saying it to Mike, in a misquote of Max's "we make our own rules". When Max was saying it, she was reassuring El that respinning the bottle was fine because, as the only two playing the game, they could make their own rules about what to do. However, when El uses it, it's because Mike has realized that she spied on him without his consent, and his offended response is to that "that's against the rules" (from context, it's difficult to know if this is a reference to rules that Hopper set out for her, or rules that she and Mike established together for their relationship-- the former isn't a great look for Mike, and the latter isn't a great look for El). El bites back, saying, "I make my own rules". When she says that, she is essentially saying "I have the ability to spy on you, so if I choose to do so, that's my prerogative" (let me just say: Mike did a lot of things wrong in s3, and he absolutely started the fight between him and El, but this specific action was not great of her). This parallels with Henry saying that he made his own rules, because when he says that, he seems to mean that he had the ability to read peoples' minds (and possibly more than that), and as such, it was his prerogative to do whatever he wanted to whomever he wanted, at any time. El is not the same as Henry (by any stretch of the imagination)... I just think this parallel is interesting (and also the contrast-- ultimately, El did what she did because she was having fun with a friend, which still isn't great because spying on people when they're supposed to be in private is not a good thing to do, but it's in an entirely different league from what Henry has done with similar power).

"A predator... but for good". So... the word "predator" has a lot of meanings, and I don't want to get too deeply into the conversations about whether Henry is or is not worthy of that title in the entirely too human sense, because it's far outside the scope of this post. However, we do know from the context of his monologue that when Henry talks about predators/apex predators, he's talking about spiders. That gives us context to know that when he calls himself a predator, it's likely that he means in the same way that a spider is a predator. Why are spiders predators? Because they hunt and kill other animals for food. The "for food" part of that is really important, because it's a key, defining factor in whether an animal is acting in a predatory way. However, predators are not inherently good or inherently evil. They are, by their nature as animals, inherently neutral. So, when Henry says that he could be "a predator... but for good", we know that he is essentially saying "a predator, like a spider... but with the human capacity to use that predatory status in order to enact what I believe to be good [which, in the context of Henry, means a complete disruption of "normal" human society] in the world".

"With each life I took, I grew stronger. More powerful. They were becoming a part of me." So... this is the line. This is the line that, to me, solidifies the idea that Henry's power grows specifically through the murders that he enacts. And that the people he kills in some way become part of him after death. It's exactly what he says and, although we have reason to doubt some of the other things that he says, this would be a very weird thing for him to lie about from an in-character POV, because it was never brought up as a possibility by anyone else, and weird for him to lie about from a narrative standpoint, because the characters don’t seem to really do anything with that information in s4 (nobody even suggests that Max could be inside Henry’s mind), so if it’s not literally true… why have him say that at all? Because if it isn’t meant literally… it’s a really odd line, and there would be other ways to phrase it if the implication was supposed to be “killing people made me feel stronger/improved my skills, and I metaphorically hold those I kill with me because remembering them gives me perverse glee”. Like, is it possible that’s what he means? Maybe. But personally I think the literal read makes more sense, because the metaphorical read doesn’t make sense in context of him trying to convince El to understand his perspective. Also, just, from a narrative standpoint, if it’s literally true, that opens up avenues to allow previously killed characters to make a re-appearance and, possibly puppeted or twisted by Henry’s mind, screw with the protagonists. Via the UD, Henry killed/directed to be killed: Barb (Nancy), Bob (Joyce or Will… lord if I have to watch Will face down Bob telling him that he killed him, I don’t know what I’ll do), possibly Max (Lucas and/or El), Eddie (Dustin), and technically also Will in s1 if they want to turn the Harry Potter allusions on their head and do a reverse horcrux situation where a sliver of Will’s soul is still in Henry and that’s what’s keeping them connected in which case hhhhhhh (Jonathan, Joyce, and Will could all have interesting reactions to this, but dear god if I have to watch Mike Wheeler face down a twisted, puppeted fragment of Will’s soul and suffer all the abuse Henry can use it to throw at him, and still look at it like s2 Mike looked at Will in the shed? I don’t even know what to say I’ll simply collapse I think??), and then obv if he kills anyone else that would add to the possible haunts. Like. You’ve got a character who can dip into people’s heads and the implication that he literally keeps his victims souls in his mind in some way… you could totally do some interesting stuff with having people meet their tortured and twisted dead loved ones is all I’m saying. Anyway, that’s a tangent. I just think it’s interesting.

So... anyway, in short, we know that Henry is willing to do whatever he wants in service of his own interests, just because he can, regardless of how others feel about it. We know that he considers himself a predator in the animal way (which implies the use of whatever you kill as food or at least a source of energy in some direct way), and that he believes he can specifically harness this predatory nature for his idea of "good". And we know that the people that Henry kills are, in some way, "part of" him, and that taking their lives makes him somehow "stronger" (presumably in his powers).

And... we also know that Henry has been compared to Dracula (or, more broadly, vampires in general via arguably the most famous vampire).

So... the connections to Dracula are pretty obvious on the surface. Scary undead/less dead than originally anticipated dude who was once human but now very much is not lives far away in a spooky old house, surrounded by spooky animals that Aren't Quite Right. And then there are all of the OTHER connections-- a protagonist named Jonathan who is very far away from the woman he loves, SO many letters (I say, thinking about Max's letters and El and Mike's letters and Mike and Will's copious lack of letters, and.... hhh), and a large group going to kill Dracula, including a young woman/girl who has been "marked" by him and, though they have found a rather simple way to keep him at bay from her, if he gets his way she will be killed and will join him forever... I'm just saying. The parallels are there.

But, also, I want to think about vampire myths more generally. Because vampires have a history which dates back at least as far as Mesopotamia (in various forms/in root forms, not necessarily by the name "vampire"/in any forms that are particularly similar to modern interpretations— being clear because I think vampire history/mythology through time is legitimately interesting and many cultures have vampire-like creatures but very few of them are literally called ‘vampires’ and… ugh I’m sorry I’ll get off topic if I let myself rant about this but these myths are so cool!!), so vampires have been a lot of things over time. But at least today, they're very associated with blood in popular culture (nosebleeds), they don't show up in mirrors (traditionally this was because mirrors had silver in them but something something the UD or at least the Mind Flayer doesn't like water, Henry says he holds up a mirror to everyone else... I don't know just interesting), they're associated with bats and wolves (demobats and demodogs), sometimes they're said to be able to turn into mist (the shadow monster?), and there are potential ties to the more general anxieties about blood born or sexually transmitted diseases/to incubus/succubus mythology (a little more abstract here, but this may tie into the way that Henry often appears in dreams/visions which prey on his victims' anxieties-- not to mention, for a show set in the 80s with a gay teen at the forefront, there are copiously no allusions to the AIDS crisis, despite the fact that we see Will being violently bullied for being gay, so, you know, if you take the UD as a metaphor for that reality— a topic so wildly outside the scope of this post that I cannot say more about it even though I actually think it’s a really interesting metaphor that seems to exist in the show— then, yeah, that's another metaphorical tie to blood born/sexually transmitted disease).

But there is also a potential connection between vampires as blood drinkers and the concept of blood as some sort of physical representation of life force/soul. They're not necessarily 1:1 on a spiritual/religious level, depending on your tradition, but it's pretty common to associate blood in some way with the soul. So, when a vampire drinks the blood of their victim, they are, on at least a metaphorical level, essentially consuming the soul of their victims (which gets into some interesting stuff with the common idea that a vampire does not have a soul, or that to become a vampire, one must not only have their blood consumed by a vampire, but must also consume that vampire's blood as well). So, if Henry is allegorically a vampire, and vampires drink something that is metaphorically like soul, and Henry's a predator whose victims make him stronger... hm.

All of which is to say, I think the show is telling us, through the vampire allusions and through the implications of everything he's said, that Henry in some way consumes the souls (or minds or life forces or potential futures or whatever) of his victims (thus making him a true predator who not only kills but also eats what he kills).

This seems to be what he's trying to teach El in that final conversation before she banishes him to the Upside Down, and the fact that she could not (or would not) understand what he was saying seems to have been the thing that turned him from trying to keep her on his side to deciding to attempt to kill her (or to simply make her watch as he kills and presumably consumes Max). And we know that El doesn't learn it, because we can clearly see that killing doesn't make her stronger, so she's clearly not consuming any of the people she's killing. She can mimic Henry's methods of killing people physically (we see this in s1, and that's highlighted when the military suspects that El's doing the murders in s4 because Henry's style is so similar to her own), but she can't or won't do whatever it is that he does to consume souls.

But this poses a problem, though.

Because, El's already had her training montage. She became stronger and went off to face the big bad, and she lost. Max died and Hawkins fell. That's a failure of the "love confession saves the world" trope, as people have discussed, but it's also a failure of the training montage trope! El is at her strongest, and she still cannot defeat Henry alone.

Which brings me to Will. I'm not going to get into all of the details which suggest that Will has powers of some sort, beyond his Henry-sensing abilities. Other people have done that, and there really isn't room for it here. However, what I would wonder is, even if Will discovers his powers at some point before the potential time skip... how is he going to be strong enough to (in tandem with El) defeat Henry, when an entire lab full of trained and superpowered kids weren't able to? Because Will is still a child, himself, and at best, he won't even know about his powers for more than about three years, presumably WITHOUT the intense level of training that El received from birth?

And... here's where I'm going to bring things back to something I've said in another post which is... this late in the game, if they're going to introduce any established protagonists besides El having powers, those powers are going to have to feel like a loss when they first appear/quickly after they appear. The character who has them has to be hurt by them, so they don't feel like a cheap win for the characters. Would it be sudden for Will to develop powers? No, not really. The clues have been there from s1. But they're also subtle enough that if you're not into ST analysis or prone to regularly rewatching the show, they're easy to miss, so a fair bit of s5 would have to be devoted to showing Will realizing that he has them and growing into using them in order for any use of them against Henry to feel earned. Incidentally, these are all the same things which are equally true for the establishment/on-screen development of Byler, so I wouldn’t be shocked if there was a connection there.

And this is where I'm about to go wildly off the rails, but... what if Will has powers and gets a power boost in the absolute worst way possible? Because, depending on how Henry consumes his victims (obviously just killing them isn't it, because that does nothing for El)... I mean. Mike has all those death flags going on (even though I highly doubt he'll end the show dead). I don't know.

I'm just saying... Mike's prone to self-sacrifice, if he thinks it will help the people he loves. I'm just saying, if he were already dying, and if they already knew that Henry has the advantage because he's consuming the souls of the people he kills(/absorbing them into his mindscape in some capacity that allows him to use them to fuel his own abilities), and if they knew that Will had similar powers but with less strength because he only had his own self to draw upon... I'm just saying, would Mike Wheeler do anything else, except beg Will to make his death mean something? Would he honestly trust anyone else enough to literally give everything that he is to them?

I'm just saying, it would be an absolute gut punch of a scene, it would tie back into Mike's s1 character issues of self-sacrifice, it would give narrative weight to what seems to be the fact that Henry in some way keeps or draws power from the people that he's killed. And it would be incredibly easy to write it in such a way that there's more power in a willing sacrifice/in a soul that is willingly with you/willing to work with your own than in a plethora of souls that you have trapped in your mental "web" in order to feast on. Something something gay love saves the day (plus, El's almost certainly going to figure out a way to put Max back into her own body at some point in s5, so it's not even like there wouldn't be a way for Mike to come back to life, as long as they managed to keep his body alive-- also because, as I said in the notes of the post where I first commented on this concept, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that they're ending the show with Will as Mike's devastated living mausoleum, like, it's just not happening that way).

So, uh. Yeah, that’s the thought that keeps spinning in circles around my head, and I hate it so much. I’m aware that this is an out there idea and almost certainly won’t come to pass, and frankly, I’m glad for that.

But the fact that it’s far fetched doesn’t mean that I can unsee the mental image of Mike/Will in a HtN Gideon/Harrow style situation where Mike and Will are both in Will’s head, and Mike, whenever he’s lucid, is begging Will to just finish the job, to consume him properly so Will and El/the Party can be even a step closer to defeating Henry, and meanwhile Will’s doing everything he can to avoid dousing the last bit of Mike he has left, especially when he still hopes to put Mike back in his body. Like. I know this won’t happen, but even the thought that there’s a 0.01% chance that it could has me shaking in my boots.

[hawkins-hero]

Hello! Can you do 3, 19, 20 and 26 for Stranger Things?

Yesss gladly. You guys are making work go by so much faster, and I love you for it.

3. Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion? I honestly haven't, and I think it'd take a lot for me to do that in the Stranger Things fandom. Just a for instance, but I'm like staunchly anti-Harringrove, but one of my favorite blogs ships them & I couldn't imagine not following this person. Blacklisting tags works wonders.

19. What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom? lmfao so this ties in nicely with my previous answer, but I absolutely fucking hate the ship wars that happen in this fandom. Like I'm so exhausted by the Steddies fighting with the Hellcheers and the Harringroves or the Milevens fighting with the Bylers. Literally none of the first three ships are ever going to be canon, so why are we acting like assholes to each other about it? Never mind that these are fictional characters. It's not that serious.

20. What is the purest ship in the fandom? Platonic Stobin, hands down. Am I cheating with this answer? Maybe, but I also don't care. I love that Steve has someone who cares about him without there being any kind of romantic entanglements involved. He deserves that kind of love. And I'm so glad that Robin has a safe person that she knows she can trust with absolutely anything because someone out to someone in rural Indiana in the 80s had to be so terrifying. They're just perfect, and I will forever be thankful for Maya Hawke refusing to play a rebound girl.

26. Most shippable character? This fandom is honestly the one that I multiship the least in, but I guess Steve or Max? They're the only two I can think of that I ship with more than one person (but not each other, just so we're super clear because gross). I'm a huge Steddie shipper, but I also ship him with Tommy in a very 'first love but probably not good for each other' kind of way. For Max, I'm probably stating the obvious but Lumax & Elmax are both absolute perfection.