thattimdrakeguy · 6 months ago
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I HAVE BEEN READING ZDARSKY BATMAN, AND I HAVE DECLARED: I FREAKING LOVE IT!!
I'm reading the Batman Zdarsky run in reverse. That way if I see any bull I can back out at anytime: and to be honest--besides a few things. I really enjoy it
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LIKE YO, THAT IS JUST STRAIGHT UP TIM DRAKE RIGHT THERE. It knows who he is as a character. his motives, it's great.
Screw the people complaining "oh why is tim still robin :((", THIS IS WHY HE IS STILL ROBIN. Because this is when he's at his BEST. When he gets to hit his character purpose, WHEN HE GETS TO BE HIM AT HIS MOST HIM. It's FANTASTIC.
Reading in reverse because I know I hated the first story, it was so contrived and ridiculous.
But this--this is some good shit.
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Tim being an underdog fighter, having to use his wits to win the fight? MY DAWG, MY DUDE, MY GUYS, MY GALS, MY THEMS, MY THEYS, THIS IS SO TIMMY DRAKE. This is so damn Tim Drake, guys. Oh, my gosh, I am loving this so far.
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Dick has his temper back? And trust me, he isn't normally like this. But he's hitting a limit AND IT'S SOMETHING NEW, NOT JUST A REFERENCE. HE'S ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING HE'D DO, 'CAUSE HE'S AT HIS LIMIT. That's wonderful, man. That is so wonderful.
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Plus Tim is the heart of the Bat-Family again? This feels like someone actually went back to read these characters before writing it. I'm not saying everything is perfect of course, but these high marks are exceeding all my expectations. And I STOPPED reading comics because of how the beginning of this run destroyed any hope I had.
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You guys have no idea how much I'm enjoying the few issues I've read. Besides the cussing (I remember after a bit they decided Tim was someone who used funny words instead of proper cusses), this feels like the Tim I know and love during the era I especially loved him.
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Tim comparing himself to his predecessors? Tim not being a natural? A WRITER REMEMBERING THAT?? It's been so long since I've seen that! Most writers treat him like he was another prodigy when he wasn't. AND THIS GUY REMEMBERED THAT!
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I shouldn't be so happy at just seeing Tim do Tim things, and serving his character purpose. BUT YOU GUYS HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG IT'S BEEN SINCE A WRITER KNEW WHAT TIM WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE.
Only complaints I have is that Jason feels like a typical Bat-Family member, and not the sketchy outsider that he is. Making him so close makes his character more bland in my opinion. And Steph is--also generic af unless she's wacky quirky...which is a characterization I hate for her, because she started off so damn interesting, but they made her a freaking trope instead, which is such a disservice to her, but she barely does anything so far, so whatever I guess. Doesn't mean much.
--
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This is the first honest thing I've seen that I hated.
No
Not this
This isn't the Bat-Family
This is a sitcom world the fandom wants to be the Bat-Family and some comply with
They're not a sitcom. The conflicts, and uniqueness of the characters is what makes things feel alive and well.
This stuff is cheap fanservice for the fanon demographic that doesn't buy comics to begin with.
Fanon doesn't belong in canon.
--
I mean sure Tim could be drawn smaller, the gag of him looking 12 when he's nearly 18 doesn't work when he's bigger than Damian who is 15 (and contrary to some bullshit comics isn't meant to be small. that was a random thing added for writers who aren't clever to write better humor. it actually contradicts things that were already established).
Don't see the big deal though for most of this.
Can't wait to find it, though. Oh boy.
This whole obsession with Zur Batman, is way over done though. So--I wouldn't be shocked if that was the problem, because my golly does that plot point not seem to be stopping--and it was there from the start and part of the reason why I didn't read it 'til now.
Good Tim tho, at least. So heehee, yey for that--I think--I guess.
Oh, well.
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It let me peak at a pseudo-version of an AU I made up years ago. So that's pretty freaking cool.
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Always a plus.
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And redoing Red Robin story beats but better? Normally I'd hate references to Red Robin, 'cause that changed the perception of so many characters for the worst, but ayy, a bit of redemption isn't bad.
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Man, just seeing simple stuff like Tim and Bruce being good ol' classic Batman and Robin warms my heart. It's been so long since Batman and Robin has acted like a proper classic Batman and Robin. It's dynamic that's been sorely missed by many.
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OH, MY GOSH, WHY DID THE FIRST STORY HAVE TO STINK SO BAD. THIS STUFF IS GREAT.
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Like, DUDE, this is such a Tim thing for him to do!!
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And he's showing emotion?? He's crying like how he does?? Because he's not a typical Bat-Family member who just angsts his way through?? THEY'RE MAKING HIM STAND-OUT AGAIN BY MAKING HIM, HIM??
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WHY DID THE FIRST STORY HAVE TO SUCK SO BAD?? THIS IS GOOD SHIT.
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Like this part is why I originally stopped reading, not because Bruce should think Tim is his soldier, and not his son, THE FREAKING OPPOSITE.
But because the original story has Bruce acting weird when unneeded, just to say this was so unneeded, and adding in all these stupid corny Bat-Family moments was so groan worthy.
This run started off with a story that was a total turn off for me.
To end up being a run that could've kept me enjoying DC, rather than running away from it from as far as I have.
Chip Zdarsky started off awful, but really, he ended up great.
And I've seen people complain about his run, and TRUST ME, there's stuff to complain about. But I have only ever seen the stuff worth complaining about, or stuff I WOULD complain about.
WHEN MOST OF THE RUN IS GOOD
At least when Tim is around.
Go figure.
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Maybe I should've paid sole attention to how he wrote Tim and nothing else at the very least for that first story.
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'Cause even in the first story, Tim was well-written--it's how cheap the rest of the story telling was in that first story that turned me off--and the weird knew about the movie plans that I am still fully judging harshly. (Love the new Superman film suit, though)
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Lara Flynn Boyle is literally so pretty :o
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ramblings-of-a-mad-cat · 3 years ago
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I rlly found your ananlysis of House Baratheon interesting and was wondering if you had any thoughts about House Arryn? They're my favorites
Thank you so kindly, anon! I'm happy to put them under the microscope, though there are only three characters to speak of, so I'll probably have less to say. Side note, while I am now reading through the books, I haven't finished them, so I'm gonna keep my analysis mostly to do with the lore from the show. Let's get started!
So first we have Jon Arryn. We don't learn much about him, we never see him, but everything we hear suggests that he was a man of honor. I mean, Ned Stark certainly seemed to think so, and this is the guy who spent many years raising him. Course, he also did that for Robert, but by Robert's own words, he basically ignored all of Jon's teachings. Jon also seemed to be a practical guy, as he was the one to suggest Robert marry Cersei and ensure Tywin's support. Given Robert's nature, Jon was more or less the real ruler of Westeros for seventeen years, which were (mostly) peaceful. Like, no shade on the Robert stans, but whenever they point out that Westeros prospered under his reign, I feel like they're forgetting that was largely in spite of him, not because of him. It was Jon Arryn who kept things running. So overall? A good guy. The only thing that we could really say was sketchy about him was the age gap between him and Lysa. I know, it's a different culture, and hey, people have happy marriages with age gaps all the time. But if what Walder Frey said is true, and the gap is comparable to him and one of his many wives? Yeah, that's creepy, and we already know Lysa never loved him. Still, he didn't deserve to die as he did. On the whole, I have a relatively positive opinion of this guy, from what little we know about him, mainly because of how much he looked out for his surrogate sons. Refusing to hand them over to the Mad King, investigating the paternity of Robert's children, etc.
Lysa Arryn is next. Oh boy, she's a piece of work. On some level, I do pity her. She's clearly one of many people who has mental illness that goes undiagnosed and untreated. Which explains a lot, including the way she raises her son. (I will...get to Robin.) But on the other hand, she's a grown woman, and that can't excuse everything she does. Which among other things, includes murdering her husband (She was basically just carrying out a Hit for Littlefinger, but she was obviously happy to do so.) and holding Sansa over the Moon Door. Her obsessive love for Littlefinger is rather disturbing, and I find myself wondering what she would do if she was ever forced to choose between him and Robin. I can only hope she would make the right choice, but then again, she also seems to love Robin a bit too much. Like, that could be her primary flaw as a character. She seems to care very little for most people, even her own family (she seems basically indifferent to her sister) but when she does love someone, she loves them to an unhealthy degree. One interesting line of note is when she mentions how Cat took on Ned's stern nature because "marriage changes people." I think that may apply to Lysa as well. Not necessarily concerning Jon, but I think The Vale's overall sense of self-importance (which I will also get to later) was something that she absorbed, as well as the crafty and ruthless nature of the man she truly loved. I don't think Lysa deserved to die as she did either, but I can't say I felt that sorry for her. My concern in that scene was for Sansa being left alone with Littlefinger. He manipulated Lysa as well, it's true. But if she wasn't so blinded by jealousy, she might have recognized that whatever happened or didn't happen between Littlefinger and Sansa was not Sansa's fault. I'm sorry, but, of all people, Lysa should be able to sympathize with a young girl who's trapped in a relationship with an older man. But she and Littlefinger have...quite a history. This is alluded to in the show, "We already had our wedding night many years ago!" but not only did they sleep together when they were younger, but Lysa got pregnant. And Hoster Tully forced her to basically self-trigger a miscarriage. Yeah, when she lists her father among the people who "stood between" her and Littlefinger, that's why. I want to pity Lysa, I really do, but...other characters suffered just as much as her, and more, and they treat the people around them better.
Time to talk about Robin. Who, in the books, is actually called Robert? I guess they changed it in the show to avoid confusion between him and Robert Baratheon. Got to say, I appreciate that, and the name Robin really suits him and House Arryn as well. Oh Robin...Robin, Robin, Robin...you poor, strange little child. It's not his fault. It truly isn't his fault at all. He is the way he is because he was raised to be. He was breastfed until he was at least ten years old, possibly even older. And Lysa would do this in front of everyone, too. Not that there's anything wrong with nursing a baby in public, but, I feel like when Robin grows a bit more mature, he'll likely be mortified that so many people in his social circle saw and knew this was happening at that age. He's sheltered. So, so beyond sheltered. I've worked with children for years and I've known kids like Robin. It always worries me, to think about where they might wind up. He was just kept in the Eyrie, spoiled within an inch of his life, and never taught how to fight or ride or anything. Which, in this world, are kind of necessary life skills, especially if he's meant to be a Lord of one of the Seven Kingdoms. The Vale is not exactly The Reach, either. The terrain is more dangerous. This poor kid deserved better. One of the wisest things Littlefinger ever said was "No, his mother should have, a long time ago." Striking a child is abuse, end of discussion. But Robin should have been disciplined. Should have been told no every now and then. Should have been raised to find joy in something other than watching people fall through the Moon Door. Seriously, was he brought to like, every execution or something? How many executions were there in his childhood? Why was he taught to think of it as a game? Like...okay, given that he was raised by Lysa, this does make a degree of sense, but...what about Jon? He played some part in raising his son, didn't he? Jon has only recently died at the point the series begins, it's not as though he's been gone for years. Speaking of, this poor kid's parental figures keep killing each other. He has no clue that his mother killed his father, nor that his mother was killed by his beloved "Uncle Petyr." We don't really know what became of Robin when all is said and done, but with Lord Royce to provide guidance, I like to think and hope he wised up a little.
Well, that about covers the known members of House Arryn. Let's talk about The House as a whole, as well as their kingdom. Because generally, I think there's a tendency with these folks to hold themselves above everyone else. I'm all for neutrality. If you have no stake in a conflict or would just otherwise prefer to stay out of it, that's valid. But alliances are what make this world go round, and very rarely can one of the Seven Kingdoms provide for itself without any help. The Vale always keeps to itself, they basically stayed out of the War of The Five Kings, and they only joined The Battle of The Bastards because Littlefinger was Lord Protector and wanted to get back into Sansa's good books. The House words for the Arryns are "As High as Honor" which is a curious phrase. Of course, being more honorable isn't a bad thing, but I think there are all different ways to live honorably and different motives for it. The Starks live honorably, but they do so by adhering to a strict set of rules. If something is dishonorable, (such as Jaime killing Aerys) then it doesn't matter if it was the right thing to do in that circumstance, because if something isn't honorable, it can't be "right." With the Arryns, they seem to think that their honor makes them better than everyone else. Or at least, The Vale's culture suggests this. Why is the Moon Door objectively better than having an executioner? Because it's more "elegant" I guess? The Starks don't use executioners either, but they have a moral reason behind it - the belief that if you sentence someone to death, you should be willing to look them in the eye and kill them yourself. The Vale isolates itself and seems to have developed a sense of self-importance during it's isolation. I suppose all of those mountains make it difficult to traverse, and the Eyrie is said to be impregnable. (No matter what creepy sex jokes that an annoying cutthroat might make about it.)
House Arryn is not unlike House Baratheon in the sense that underneath it's exterior, there's some creepy and terrible stuff going on. It's even got the kin-slaying! But I think it was much more deliberate in this case. I think House Arryn is meant to appear on the outside as being "as high as honor" so to speak, but when you look below the surface, there's some messed up stuff going on. Jon Arryn, tragically murdered by The Lannisters because he was about to expose them...nope, turns out, he was murdered by his own wife. She's mad as a hatter, and teaching her son to turn out the same way. Then she gets murdered as well, within two episodes of revealing that she was the one to kill her husband. (Side note, the poison being called "Tears of Lys" is such blatant foreshadowing but I love it.) And now her son is little more than a figurehead for one of the shadiest character's ever-increasing plans and horizons. While The Knights of The Vale do seem to have a bit more sense, they're also easily fooled. All it took was the testimony of one teenager (who definitely sounded like she'd been coached) to get them to do a complete 180 on trusting Littlefinger. The fact that they brought up his Braavosi ancestry sure doesn't help either. Why does that even matter, Lord Royce?
Ultimately, the Arryns have the idea of honor and prestige, but that's all they have.
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angsty-nerd · 4 years ago
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RNM 2X13 - Echo Download
I've been having a hard time trying to put my feelings about the Season 2 finale into words, so I've been sitting on it for a few days, reading everyone's metas, and trying to organize and separate my actual thinky thoughts from the angst and heartache. That… is not something I am particularly good at. But I'm trying.
I LOVE this show. The writing is a mess. There's plot holes all over the place. The pacing issues alone make me want to tear my hair out. And dear God do I want them to give these characters and relationships (including friendships) the time and space for the big moments to land properly. I don't know if we'll ever get any of that though. And in the meantime, I love these characters and the story, messes and all.
Everyone knows my biggest love is Echo, so I'm gonna start there.
"I don't know what you thought love was gonna be like when we were 17, but it's not all sunsets and horseback rides."
Back in the OG days, there was one consistent criticism I had with the way they wrote Max and Liz's story: the breakups always felt like bullshit. Max breaks up with Liz because she was afraid of some weird alien shit. Liz breaks up with Max because he's "supposed to be with Tess" and meanwhile he's like, "um… no?" We had "it's too dangerous" when it was dangerous regardless. "We're just different" but not in ways that actually mattered.
Echo's breakup mattered. There were issues and they were not dealing with them. Both of them were sneaking around behind the other's back. Neither was being fully honest with the other.
The unwavering honesty was something that stood out to me in S1. Yes, Max was hiding the truth about Rosa's death. But when it came to the present they were almost laughably open with each other. Liz didn't lie about it when Max asked if she told Kyle the truth. When Max asked what she was doing in the lab, she told him the truth. Once Liz knew the truth about Rosa, she knew everything. It seemed like with that truth out there was nothing left to hide. And once they got together they were a team. Immediately. There's a reason that we had a joking headcanon in the Echo world that they had their first kiss and then they were a married couple.
I really think Max's death not only put that to a screeching halt...it also put them on this path to the breakup. Liz has abandonment issues, and Max made a choice, without her, that resulted in him leaving her alone. It wasn't openly discussed in the depth that it should have been this season, but I really do think it was issue #1. Liz loves Max and she was very happy being with him...but after he came back from the dead she didn't trust him to not leave her again. It was an issue simmering under the surface from Episode 7 until the finale. Liz channeled it all into worrying about his heart, but the underlying theme was a resounding "I can't go through that again". Which is deeper than just the worry over a physical health problem. And it pushed Max away from her.
He grew irritable with her. He started hiding things from her and lying to her. The season just ended and I have no idea if he ever told her anything about his memory flashes! He was obsessively trying to learn about his past and never once discussed it with Liz!?? Because he didn't want her to stop him from using the serum? This is a HUGELY personal thing to Max and you can see how much it means to him. He had tears in his eyes while telling Isobel about it. I mean, that puppy dog excitement, and yet, he hides it all whenever Liz is around.
I think it was around episode 8 that we started talking about how badly they needed to have a big fight. Us -- the Echo shippers -- the ones who WANT them to be together -- were BEGGING them to fight. I hate conflict!! But the lack of honestly and the aversions were just building and building and I just wanted it all out on the table.
They finally STARTED having that fight in episode 11, but then Rosa and Isobel interrupted. In retrospect, sweet alien!Jesus, I wish they could have finished then. Maybe they would have gotten the air clear between them. Maybe it would have put them on a path to healing their relationship before the finale. But they didn't, so the breakup happened. And the thing is… that ending. It just kind of haunts me. Liz waiting and hoping for a grand gesture that never comes. I mean, did Max even know WHEN she was leaving!?! He sure didn't seem to have it on his mind when they flashed to him in that scene. And their fight...was all about what Liz was doing and Max not taking care of his heart. They never once touched on what he was trying to learn about his past. I'm pretty certain that Liz left without knowing any of that.
And the thing is… I'm sort of skirting around the meat of the issue here. Because the biggest problem of all of this was Liz violating Max by studying his biology without consent.
I really hate saying that in writing, because, to me, it's kind of the most horrible part of all of this.
Max Evans has been referred to in jest in this fandom as the King of Consent. He was so careful with Liz, tiptoeing around her looking for explicit consent in Season 1 until her desire for him was made abundantly clear. He only ignored the need for consent twice: both times in the S1 finale. Healing Michael's hand and healing Rosa. But those things both happened after he killed Noah. After he was high on his own power. They were very clearly set up as out of character for him.
Liz didn't give him the same respect. Consent does not just apply to sexual situations and healing. It applies to studying too. It applies to Liz USING Max's biology without his permission. It also applies to administering the cure to Steph without her consent. Liz was very, very wrong here.
And the thing is… it sure didn't seem like the writers saw it that way. It also didn't seem like JEANINE saw it that way. There's been a little bit more balanced quotes from them in interviews this week since the finale ended as far as saying that both Max and Liz were wrong, but they sure focused on Liz being incredible and strong before the finale aired.
The part that confuses me though...like, a LOT, is that the narrative was pretty clear that what Liz was doing was Bad and Wrong. She looked guilty. She was lying and hiding things from Max. And the MORAL COMPASS OF THE SHOW, Mr. Kyle Valenti, repeatedly told her she was wrong. Kyle called her out on her ethical violations even as he was thanking her for saving Steph.
Genoryx was set up as being bad. Liz herself refused to go work for them in the flashbacks because they were morally sketchy. Although, maybe that's the draw now that she is all full of ethical violations. Sigh.
I'm gonna leave this topic now, but I'll encourage you to go read @latessitrice's meta on the subject here:
Okay...so to sum this up? The breakup was coming. We knew it was coming. But it still hurt my heart so much. I haven't seen anyone gif Jeanine's performance of the "I am in love with you. And I hate that right now." But the delivery of that line broke me.
That being said...do I see it being over? Let's give that a resounding FUCK, NO. I mean, sure, they fought. And it hurt. And Liz ran away. Without saying goodbye. And all of that SHATTERED ME.
But...they still love each other even if they both have a lot to work on individually. That’s part of what MADE it so hard.
I am actually stoked for season 3. Two Maxes? All of the delicious angst once Liz gets home. Liz not knowing there's two Maxes and meeting Jones first and not knowing who he is and being vulnerable to his mindfuckery? Or just his fuckery in general. Whatever. I am here for it.
I am here for Liz discovering that something about Genoryx is Not Right. I'm here for her living a normal life and getting drawn back into the madness. I'm here for Max getting more powerful and more alieny under Jones's guidance. And I am here for what I am certain will be an epic reunion once they are back together again.
As a last more positive comment...I’m stoked that we get to have both Max and Liz alive and facing interesting potential storylines this hiatus. All I wanted from this finale, in truth, was to leave the characters in a place that inspired me to want to write for them for the next year plus or however long this COVID-extended hiatus ends up being. And I am so excited for that.
And I have talked enough now that I will go ahead and post this and leave this post as my Echo Takeaways from the finale. I'll be back again with some more gen/bigger picture thoughts later.
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