#contrasting Jonathan and Nancy with Jason and Chrissy

[jonathanbyersphd]

How I imagine Robin is watching Jonathan and Nancy from her locker.

[gayofthefae]

I went through and counted the times people say "I love you" in season 4, since it's been given so much weight.

"Chrissy, I love you, babe" - Jason. Not meant to be taken seriously.

"That's why I love her/him" - Jonathan and Nancy, to third parties freely and without ulterior motive.

"Love, your shitty little sister, Max" - Max, genuine: a grieving message to her abuser.

"I loved you. I loved all of you." - Brenner, about his abuse victims

"You're my brother. And I love you." - Jonathan, telling Will it's okay if he's gay.

Of course, Mike's eight (yes, eight, I checked).

"I love you, man" "I love you too" Eddie to Dustin as he dies, with Dustin returning it.

They seem inconsistent but I actually find that they're not. They serve one main purpose: making the words lose meaning. He says them in episode 9 of 9, which would be for climactic purposes, but in this case simply makes him the 7th person to say them this season.

Jason and J@ncy say them before weight has been added and I'll acknowledge that but all still fall into two main categories that serve that same purpose.

Jason, Max, Brenner: watering down what the words represent for a relationship.

J@ncy, Jonathan: upstaging* Mike (*taking away focus or one-upping)

J@ncy uses them before they've been given as much weight, but they also use them first of the more authentic usages, so in combination they come out with ease and it's early enough that they still mean more to us.

Jonathan uses them to Will in a speech about, as Mike later says to El, "I love you for exactly who you are". But he uses them in a more important context that we are made to care about more as an audience in the same place as Mike will like half an hour later. Both speeches are supposed to be perceived as a culmination of an arc, but they put Jonathan's first as if to say "Here's something really good to compare to".

And finally, in Mike's. One could argue that he romantically repeats it over and over to prove that he can now because he feels free, but at the end of the day, all it achieves is that by the last time he says it, it's been said 13 times before and our ears are numb to it.

Then, even after that, though improvised, they approved it, it makes his speech bookended with deeper hitting versions of "I love you". We now have a positive romantic and familial leading up to it and a platonic after the fact and three usages in relationships including an antagonist, two of which abusive: said by one victim and one abuser, to make it even. They want you to know that those words have the capacity to not mean anything and when they do, they'll tell you -because it will be done better.

tldr: Mike is the 7th person to say "I love you" in season 4, despite it being his arc, and the 4th to say it about a positively represented relationship. It is no way "saved" for him so that it feels bigger. All other times it's used serve to either water down the meaning of the word or contrast his usage by being more authentic and just...better.

[love-byers]

s4′s theme: putting up fronts

the s4 themes that stick out the most to me are: memories, lying, and putting up fronts. but right now im going to talk about putting up fronts

max: max is not okay. she is dealing with trauma and poor mental health but pretends to be okay. she lies to lucas and the counselor about being fine when she’s not. 

lucas: lucas is trying to be someone else to fit in with the popular basketball guys, even though he doesn’t really like them that much or click with them as freinds. he also lies about being in helllfire and knowing eddie. 

chrissy: chrissy is basically playing a character. she’s being pressured by her mother into being thinner and is struggling with an eating disorder, which she hides. she is the star cheerleader and is dating jason, even though she’s not her real self around him and doesn’t trust him. (she didn’t tell him about her problems and instead went to eddie for help, she was more focused on keeping up the facade than being truthful with her boyfriend). 

fred and patrick: all of vecna’s victims are struggling with internal pain. for max it was guilt and trauma over billy, for chrissy it was her eating disorder and the pressure from her mom/her whole life, for fred it was guilt and trauma from the car accident, for patrick it was the abuse from his father, and for nancy it was the guilt and trauma over barb that she had been carrying for almost 3 years at that point. 

robin: steve gets on robin for not being herself around vickie. 

steve: robin gets on steve for not being himself around girls 

vickie: vickie is clearly closeted so that is a front she is having to put up

nancy: nancy lies to fred about everything with jonathan being fine, but he eventually gets her to admit that she’s annoyed by his behavior. 

the entire hawkins gang are also always lying about eddie and knowing where he is.

jonathan: on a more comedic note, jonathan (and argyle) was always pretending to not be high and was also lying to nancy about college. 

joyce (and murray): joyce and murray are lying to the kids about going to alaska to save hopper. 

hopper and enzo: hopper and enzo have been lying to the other guards about what they’re up to. enzo has been pretending to beat hopper when in reality they’re working out their plan. also, yuri is lying to all of them about his plan to take the money and turn joyce and murray over to the government.

el: el has been lying to mike for months about her life in lenora. she says she has lots of friends and is super popular and is doing great in school, when none of that is true. when mike gets to lenora, she keeps up the lie even when will is telling her its not right and that mike will get mad when he finds out. (and he was right. mike did get mad. but not at el. he got mad at will. hm. interesting.)

will: will is gay and closeted. he is constantly putting up the front that he is straight and carrying around this internal pain and shame. we see him lie directly to mike in the van scene about his feelings by saying they’re el’s

henry/001/vecna: henry wasn’t being truthful to el about who he was and what his real plans were. we didn’t even find out who he really was until the very end of vol 1. 

dr brenner: “papa doesn’t always tell the truth.”

soooooo that leaves two people

number one:

every single character is putting up a front. they’re all lying about something. but not mike? YES, mike too.

mike’s style took a 180 when he went to california. he went from black jeans and leather jackets and his little gay collared button ups and black converse to ..... what ever the hell this is. it’s such a stark contrast, and you’re supposed to notice how different he looks and how different he’s acting. because he is PUTTING UP A FRONT. HE IS LYING. this cool, colorfully dressed, perfect boyfriend-mike is just....not mike. definitely not the mike we saw in hawkins the episode before. i think argyle said it best, actually:

then when el leaves to get her powers back, he reverts back to who we saw in episode one both in how he dresses and how he acts. 

the black jeans and converse are back, and to be honest, post s4 ep3 mike is the closest ive felt to s2 mike since...well....season 2. this isn’t to say that mike literally decided to start being himself again when el left, i’m just pointing out the sublte visual cues the writers are sending you. when el is around, mike isnt himself. when she’s not around, and if will is there, he is himself. 

finn wolfhard said that in s4 mike is trying to stay on a “normal path”. meanwhile mike is in the hellfire club which is basically the school’s ‘freak’ club and is lead by eddie “forced conformity, thats whats killing the kids” munson. if mike is trying to stay on a normal path to not be bullied and not be in the spotlight, why is he in the hellfire club? why does he associate himself with eddie? because that’s not the normal path finn was talking about. the ‘normal path’ is the mike we see in the airport and at the roller rink. he’s trying to continue being this cool normal guy in a perfect happy relationship with his girlfriend, but it all falls apart because it’s just not reality. he’s not in love with el. he’s in love with will. he’s not the person he portrays himself as the first day in lenora. but he didn’t have to pretend to be that person after el moved, when she moved he could go back to being himself without stressing over it or feeling forced to conform. i think mike’s realization at the end of s3 really spooked him, so now he’s doubling down when he’s around el. HE’S PUTTING UP A FRONT. mike is a lot more complicated, but like will, he is queer and repressing it. i am also a firm believer that mike was not being truthful in his monologue to el. he does love el, but not in the way he’s saying and not in the way she wants. the monologue being his big lie of the season fits right in with this theme. 

there’s still one more person to discuss in this post, and this is who it is:

eddie is the only character who wasn’t lying or putting up a front. eddie was telling the truth about not being a murderer, but no one believed him. in a season where the theme is lying, conforming, and putting up fronts, eddie is meant to stick out like a sore thumb. he is supposed to be the clarity in the middle of the lies and conformity. the school and town hated him for being different, but eddie didn’t care. he embraced being a freak, and took kids like mike dustin and lucas under his wing. he was closest with dustin this season, and dustin is another character who wasn’t putting up a front, though he did tell lies, which is why i included him earlier. the closer someone is to eddie, who represents truth and anti-conformity, the more true to themselves they are. chrissy’s facade fades when she’s with eddie, and we see her real personality. she genuinely laughs and smiles, and she opens up some about her problems. that scene of them in the woods is how we learn that who chrissy portrays herself as is not real. when mike started high school and got taken under eddie’s wing, he stopped the whole s3 ‘im growing up and dnd is stupid will im not gay’ game. then, when he leaves hawkins (and in turn, eddie) he reverts back to that whole fake persona. eddie was thought to be the killer because he just so happened to be nearby when they happened. again, im not saying eddie and his personality actually caused the attacks, its just symbolism the writers might be sliding in. when eddie was near these people who are internally suffering and putting up fronts, the truth was revealed. and in the end, eddie died. all of vecnas victims died (max, briefly). the victims feeling forced into bottling up their pain and internalizing it made them suffer, which ultimately lead to them being targeted by vecna and dying. had they not carried this around and suffered in silence, vecna would not have been able to target them as easily. lucas tried repeatedly to get max to open up to him and talk to him, it’s literally all he wanted. his love and care and concern for her is what ultimately saved her life. when max was being vecnad the first time, she first remembered what lucas said “We’re right here. I’m right here.” that reminded max that she’s not in this fight alone. she doesn’t have to bottle this up and push everyone away and solve it on her own. she doesn’t have to suffer in silence. remembering that enabled her to remember all of the happiness she’s experienced in life, and that it’s worth fighting for. at one point max saying when she’s being attacked by vencna, she’ll just run towards the light. this obviously represents happiness and love and warmth, but it also represents truth. but the second time, this didn’t happen. lucas saved her life again via the snowball memory, but that didn’t last forever. lucas wasn’t able to step in again with kate bush and remind max she doesn’t have to do this alone. why? because jason stepped on her headphones and broke them.

in this little analogy, jason isn’t included in the lying/putting up fronts group, because jason is the anti-eddie. this is basically canon already but im gonna go more into it. eddie represents anti-conformity, being true to yourself, embracing being a freak, freedom to do what you love no matter what anyone thinks. jason is the opposite of this. he hates eddie and we see them butt heads in episode one. jason is the one enforcing the conformity. he’s the captain of the basket ball team who all wear uniforms. they all look the same. jason is a fucking scary character to me because he is basically written to parallel a cult leader. in episode one they foreshadow his weird preacher behavior when he gives his speech at the pep rally and the party are looking at him like .... is this dude serious? from the outside looking in, jason looks absolutely insane. he’s wrong about eddie, but he refuses to believe he’s wrong. he makes it his mission to convince the entire town to go on a witch hunt after eddie. hunt the freak, right? when lucas confronts him with the truth in ep 9, he still refuses to believe him. he calls hellfire a satanic cult, which is frustrating to watch because HE is the one paralleling a religious cult leader. jason constantly brings up bible verses and does all the other weird shit he does, and its so eerie to watch for the reasons i just explained. so jason, who represents forced conformity, is what really put the nail in max’s coffin. simply because he is a fucking insane cult leader in training,  he took max’s outlet from her and forced her to be trapped in her own mind. forced conformity, that’s what's killing the kids.

circling back to mike, he proudly associated himself with eddie and looked up to him. the costume designers talked about how mike was influenced by eddie and admired him. someone who is trying to ‘stay on a normal path’ does not associate themselves with the town’s freak. eddie was a positive influence on mike and helped him feel more confident in being his true self. mike was even pissy at lucas for trying to get in with the popular kids to avoid bullying. allow me to repeat myself: the kid who is trying to stay on a normal path is mad at his friend for trying to stay on a normal path. it’s also interesting to me how the character who represents forced conformity (jason) is extremely religious and uses the bible when he enforces conformity. that is so, so, so, so queercoded. like....unbelievably queer coded. take that as you will

anways, my point is, mike was putting up a front in s4. he was trying to stay on a normal path. but that normal path and front has nothing to do with hawkins or bullying or popularity, its about his sexuality and his relationships with will and el. 

[dubiousdisco]

"You could not let him go. (...) You are the monster"

I think this line foreshadows both the M*leven breakup as it does the endgame couples. Bear with me,

Hopper (the one who actually used the line "I let her go" to refer to his first wife, which allowed him to eventually move on from his loss and find El and Joyce), lets go when he mistakenly believes he is the curse and tries to help them from afar. This is when Joyce, who had also moved on but came back for him when she knew he could be alive, finally manages to rescue him and he is reunited with El later on.

Steve is shown (and states) he can't let go of Nancy. Both Nancy and Jonathan let go of each other even if they really didn't want to, because they thought the other would be happier without them. Notably, in contrast to Mike and El, there was not a demand for an explanation during their absence. Jonathan came back running to Nancy as soon as he understood she was in trouble.

Robin let Vickie go, and perhaps she will end up with Vickie.

Dustin and Suzie are very comfortable with the distance, but she was grounded for changing his grade, which she accepted. She did, however, help the cali crew with his "birthday gift" when they told her about this. She let him go but came back to help him.

Lucas let Max go and have her distance but told her he was there for her and was reached out for her as soon as she allowed him to. I still believe they are going to have that date.

The most annoying guy in the series, Jason, could not let go of Chrissy. It is understandable that the shock got to him, but not excusable that he couldn't accept chrissy doing weed and decided the only thing to do was to kill Eddie. He and Chrissy are not, or course, reunited, and he has a bad ending.

Henry Creel has a great disdain for human beings, except maybe the ones that remind him of himself (el? will?). He, however, after turning into vecna, does not let any of his victims go and in fact consumes them. He tells nancy he remembers everyone he killed. He lives in the upside down version of his house, in frozen time, and a grandfather clock is shown when he is about to attack. The big bad of the series has many traits relative to mental illness, but the one we are focusing on is his inability to let go.

Will, very notably, tells Mike (he) will always need him, but lets him go as if ripping off a band-aid. (note that will is rewarded at this point, he is back to being Mike's number 1. Even when El walks away at the end, he stays with Will.

now, the complicated part.

Mike basically told Will he was about to let Eleven go because she doesn't need him and there's nothing else he can do for her. He tried to help her during the whole season (told the DJ to stop during the Angela bullying and tried to reach her in the rink, taking breakfast to her, asking gently what happened and assuring her she can talk to him because he is nobody important 'been bullied all his life' [this is an issue as well] and those people are nothing to El, a super hero [another issue], tries to reach her by foot when the cops are taking her away by car and tries to assure her he will "fix this", tries to help her during her fight with Vecna but only manages to say what she wants to hear thanks to Will, and even so, it seems like it didn't help much, i'm sure i'm forgetting something). He only insisted on the relationship because Will reassured him that she needed him. Romantic or not, he does love El. He will stay for her if she does need him.

El doesn't really NEED Mike, but she is shown several times acting as if she does throughout the seasons. This season features her being bullied and not telling Mike as to not taint his image of her, being moved to tears by the bullying and by the fact that MIKE SAW IT HAPPEN, and running away from mike when he was trying to reach her because him seeing her in need of help made her feel worse.

She demands Angela tell MIKE it was a joke and they really are friends, and when she refuses, moved by the bullying AND the fact that she can't mantain her image to mike anymore, she attacks her. We see a flashback to Brenner. We can easily infer that this moment made her feel like a monster.

This season we are also shown a flashback of el making Max fall off her skate in s2 when trying to impress mike into letting her join the group. El did this without knowing Max because she was upset a girl made Mike smile. In this context we know she also feels like a monster for this and that she did this to "keep Mike".

When mike tries to reach out for her, he mentions she's a super hero [a problem, since she can only think of herself as a super hero or a monster] and to answer why she didn't tell him about any of this, she shows him all the (frankly giant) stack of letters he sent her and points out the 'from mike', he 'can't even write' that he loves her. She rejects his reaching out, possibly because she felt like she was losing him as well. but still she tried to keep him through her lies in the beggining. even her letter to him after going back to brenner, although signed "from el" instead of "love el" was TO MIKE about becoming a superhero again, a person she knows he will love.

What I think is that after the training with Brenner, and the realization of the monster Brenner became/was and the monstrous things he did because he could not let go of Henry AND of Eleven, she is getting ready to let Mike go. She is not the monster, but she did consider many of the things she did because of Mike (making max fall, breaking Angela's face FOR NOT LYING TO MIKE and not just because of the bullying) monstruous. She doesn't want to be like Brenner. I think this is how her arc will end. She will let Mike, the first person she bounded with and who helped her not feel like a monster, the person she loved the most in her childhood, go. and she will move on. And maybe then she will accept his help as her friend and the help of all her friends and family.

And I think Mike, who had almost accepted their breakup already, will also let his superman go, but he will stay friends with El Hopper, Will's sister, and his best friend who understands, just like Will does.

There have been parallels between Will and El since season one, especially in regards to Mike. So if El goes from being his girlfriend to his best friend, perhaps Will will go from being his best friend to his boyfriend?

While I'm not sure this is what the duffers are planning, the season does end like this: