#delenn x lennier

[conundrumoftime]

Fandom grandma tales: how I survived canon ruining two of the ships I liked.

(Written after a discussion with some of my TROP fan pals about how canon can break your heart re: shipping, and how fandom manages. There are spoilers here for the entire run of Babylon 5, and for one story JMS wrote after it. yes, that story. sorry.)

Babylon 5 was a sci-fi space opera show that ran from 1993 to 1998. It is sci-fi of the era of 22-episode seasons, of huge ensemble casts with characters who get their own B- and C-plots, with an effects and casting budget that doesn’t always match its ambition, and - something it was quite pioneering in, at the time - grand pre-planned story arcs. 

It’s the first fandom that I was involved with in internet spaces as it was running, or at least when its final season was (there’s Discourse and drama from earlier years that I missed). Its showrunner, J. Michael Straczynski - ‘JMS’ - was very active in (non-fanfic) fan community spaces, and you always knew exactly what he was thinking about things because he was part of the discussion around them. There was also fanfic, which he didn’t stop but didn’t go near on the grounds of legal liability for story ideas. 

Most of the fanfic in the early days as the show was airing was focused around two big ships, of which one was canon endgame (Delenn/Sheridan) and one was canon all-ends-in-despair (Marcus/Ivanova). I, as a teenager discovering a developing online fandom for the first time with all the overwhelm and excitement that causes (ask me anything about what reading fic was like before the days of tags/ratings/warnings!) got into Marcus/Ivanova and also into one of the minor ships, Delenn/Lennier.

Delenn/Lennier was never, ever going to happen in canon. This is obvious; it clashes with Delenn/Sheridan which was JMS’s baby darling OTP, the show’s big love story. Delenn is married for the later part of the show. Lennier is her diplomatic aide, is absolutely devoted to her, and they have a very intense mentor/student relationship, which it seems is kind of standard in their culture (when Delenn’s own mentor died she went briefly insane with grief and started a genocidal war over it) but is still Very Intense. He is canonically in love with her, but that’s as far as the explicit canon statements go.

However. HowEVER. Canon also gives us, for that relationship, some wonderful ship fuel. Lennier knows about every bad thing Delenn has done, including all the stuff she doesn’t/can’t tell her husband. He’s her link to her previous world and culture and stands by her even when they kick her out. She says at one point, “without him, I would stumble and fall and never get up again.” 

And then… we had Season 5, the final season.

Season 5, for various complicated production reasons, was operating a little outside of pre-planned story arcs and in this season the Delenn/Lennier stuff ramped up about three gears in one go. It was still very obviously never, ever going to be canon, and was almost certainly not intended by the creator (who wrote most of the episodes himself) to look like there was even anything there. At this point Delenn is married; any relationship with her aide would not only be going against the show’s OTP, but going against it in the sense where she’s cheating on her husband, and there is Just No Way JMS would have gone there. And yet! Season 5 gave us:

A scene where Lennier says he can’t stay, it’s too painful to be around her now she’s married, and she’s devastated and has the following conversation with her husband about it:

S: I got your message about Lennier. Is there anything I can do?

D [snapping]: Almost certainly not.

S: Is it because of me?

D: In part, I think so.

S: Yeah, I was afraid of that. Well, as we say back on Earth, three’s a crowd.

D: On Minbar, three is sacred.

S [slightly uncomfortable laugh]: Well, I don’t think I’m ready to handle that one, Delenn.

Delenn then calling Lennier back to the station to do some secret mission thing for her, which involves her sneaking out of her bed while her husband sleeps to meet Lennier in a darkened alley behind a bar, where she tenderly strokes his face and they have a whole conversation about whether her husband understands her or not.

A scene where Lennier comes back from his secret mission to meet both Delenn and Sheridan, Delenn goes to greet him with a hug, and Lennier does this very pointed step back and nod in the direction of her husband, and she pulls back and just sort of pats him on the arms instead. 

I MEAN.

But, the issue here is not what fans did about it but what canon did about it. Canon did the canon equivalent of dragging that ship outside and shooting it in the head. 

In the final few episodes of the entire series, Lennier tries to kill Sheridan, runs away in shame, and then someone finds his diary in which he’d been writing for ages about what a bad decision he thought Delenn had made and how her whole marriage was an awful idea. Even to this day, it’s fun/awful watching people go through a first-time watch when they get to season 5 and hit that. ‘Character assassination in the form of a diary’ was a whole thing for a while. It’s been 20+ years and the actor who played Lennier is stilll mad about it (not because of shippy stuff, but because he - correctly! - thinks Lennier absolutely would not have done that). 

What *fandom* did, on the other hand, was Fixed The Problem.

Delenn/Lennier was not at all a big ship when the series was airing, and for a few years after. Then the fandom dynamics started to change. With less pressure on what canon was going to do, it felt like fandom had more space to play around with things it didn’t do. Fanfic got less interested in trying to fit within the overall story being told and started spinning off in all its own directions. And *this* ship started getting bigger and bigger. People did really interesting things with it, canon divergence went in all directions, everyone wrote a fix-it story of some variety, some authors did a great series of connected stories based on an idea that Minbari have three genders, the quality of the writing has been brilliant. And I think without that absolute whiplash feeling of what happened in canon, there would never have been this feeling of “well I’m not having THAT” which led to all this.

We did not need canon! Canon had done its thing. And canon had broken our hearts enough ways with many of the other stories it told (entirely on purpose) and we weren’t just going to sit back and let it ruin us forever.

By comparison, the other ship I was into was Marcus/Ivanova. This is entirely doomed. Susan Ivanova’s love life is just perpetually doomed. The first partner of hers we meet is an ex who’s interested in getting back together, but then it turns out he’s just using her to infiltrate the station for the fascist terrorist group he’s secretly joined. Then she falls for an archrival of hers, Talia, who works for Psi Corps, the organisation she loathes most of all things - but it’s okay because it turns out Talia is starting to question them too! Maybe these crazy kids can make it work! They have one night together and then OOPS turns out Talia was being secretly controlled by a sleeper personality implanted in her by Psi Corps the whole time. Ivanova’s love life is doomed. 

So for two seasons, she has this sort-of-flirty, sort-of-bickery, sort-of-friendship going with Marcus, who is on the surface of it very much “why not fall in love at first sight like a true romantic, YOLO!” but it turns out is actually deeply messed up himself and full of survivor’s guilt and pain and, you get the clear impression, would have died of shock if she’d actually called his bluff on the OTT flirting and said “yeah, let’s go for it”. And then he sacrifices himself to save her life. It is a very tragic ending, it is absolutely the way he would have wanted to go, she wakes up both furious and absolutely distraught, says that the last thing she heard was him saying “I love you”, says she wishes she’d at least slept with him once, and says that in a way all love is unrequited. PAIN. 

So, lots of fix-it fanfic, lots of ‘Marcus comes back to life’, lots of canon divergence AUs where he doesn’t die and they live happily ever after and both get over their huge levels of unresolved pain. Pretty standard for that kind of pairing. And as a pairing it doesn’t get in the way of any big canon pairings, it doesn’t imply anything icky like mentor/student power imbalances or adultery. And JMS clearly quite liked it. So that’s better, right?

NO. It was WORSE.

JMS wrote an Marcus/Ivanova story himself, published in one of the sci-fi magazines, to try to give them a happy ending. This happy ending involves Marcus, many many years in the future, waking up from the cryogenic suspension he’s in (it’s sci-fi, keep up, keep up). Ivanova is long dead, but he isn’t about to let this get in the way, so what he does is to *create a new Ivanova* by getting some kind of DNA + computerised memory/personality bank thing, finding a doctor who will clone her, putting himself back into animated sleep until the clone reaches the age Ivanova was when she died, then - THEN, I’M STILL GOING - takes her to a distant planet where, with her memories wiped and their spaceship having deliberately been crashed BY HIM so there’s no way back, they live out their lives in peace.

WHAT.

That pairing still does okay in fandom but it’s not really taken on a post-show world of headcanons and riffing on other people’s ideas and tropes in the way that Delenn/Lennier has (and we all just pretend that story never existed). 

So! This has been my experiences in the field of What We Do When The Show Has Thoughts On That Non-Endgame Ship We’re Into. Fandom manages. Fandom will see you through. And in the words of Susan Ivanova:

Babylon Five was the last of the Babylon stations; there would never be another. It changed the future, and it changed us. It taught us that we have to create the future, or others will do it for us. It showed us that we have to care for one another, for if we don’t, who will? And that true strength sometimes comes from the most unlikely places. Mostly though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be new beginnings - even for people like us.

[delennier]

I just love how Delenn and Lennier, and also G'Kar and Na'Toth are of close to exactly the same height. Delenn and Lennier are both tiny. And G'Kar and Na'Toth are both tall.

[samalander01]

Problem solved. Three is sacred, right? John could get on board eventually.

Non-meme are under the cut

(I just think this could be nice and also Delenn is a girlboss war criminal who deserves 2 boyfriends)

[tallysgreatestfan-art]

Minvember, prompt "prayer"

Of course I was going to draw them for this prompt

[numptypylon]

Commission for @tallysgreatestfan of Delenn and Lennier from Babylon 5, which took me way back on a nostalgia ride

Commission info

[tallysgreatestfan]

Thought I try something with the lineart.

Another tender almost kiss between Delenn/Lennier

[therighthandofvengeance]

What Babylon 5 Characters are doing in a 24/HR Diner

Meet-Ups:

John and Delenn are playing footsies while sharing a milkshake in a far booth

Neroon and Zack are the two grandpas who always go out to get a “cuppa joe” on a weekly basis, and they complain about “frou-frou” coffees that younger generations indulge in

Ivanova and Talia are having brunch

Vir and Lennier are hoping for a quiet study session with a different ambiance than their usual meet-up spots

Assorted Customers:

Bester is threatening to leave a negative Yelp review and never return (he never follows through, he always returns)

Mr. Morden is there to try the diner’s “world famous” dishes and then immediately tells the staff if the dishes have any reason, in his opinion, to be classified as such

Sinclair is the parent traveling across the country with his children (Marcus, Garibaldi, G’Kar, and Londo) and hoping they’ll all fall asleep when they get back in the car… they won’t

Franklin is getting into discussions about nutrition with a server who Does Not Have Time For This

Staff:

Lyta and Na’Toth are the servers who Do Not Have Time For This

Lochley is the manager, and she will make time for this because how anyone could be that stupid is just the tiniest bit beyond her, so if you would please explain-

Kosh owns the franchise and will be there on occasion. nobody knows what he qualifies as an occasion, though

Lorien owns the company, and Kosh’s quarterlies could be better, but the important thing is that everyone is having fun (they’re not)

[authortobenamedlater]

Lennier is such a third wheel at this dinner poor guy.

[travalistocata]

💛💚💖💔💕 + b5

aaaa thank you!!

from these (x)

what is a popular ship you just can’t get behind, and why?

marcus/neroon is something i just can’t get into and i honestly don’t know why! it has so many things that i would like - the minor character, the possibility of tragedy, the toxic yaoi fight to the almost-death, all of that. but they just don’t grip me. i’m not some neroon hater either, at worst i love to hate him because he’s kind of obnoxious but i love obnoxious bitches. who knows.

what does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character?

i like to joke that lyta is a kitten in a wet cardboard box all alone but when she is able to be, she is capable, independent and able to fend for herself. she’s introduced to us in divided loyalties by immediately brandishing a weapon and making demands. people act as if she’s unable to do anything for herself when the biggest part of her character is that she has been purposefully held back and isolated from others. being abused is not a character flaw, actually, and being abused with no way of escaping that abuse is also not a character flaw! also it’s so, so, so much more annoying when this attitude towards her is applied to her “aren’t you tired of being nice-“ arc in season 5. she can explode things with her mind quite literally. she’s shown using her crazy ass telepathy to kill SHADOWS in the road home! and then people act as if she’d be at g’kar’s mercy as if g’kar is also not a senior citizen who has sworn off violence of any kind.

what is your biggest unpopular opinion about the series?

(strained through gritted teeth, pretending i have not seen the fifth season) the pacing isn’t that bad. some plotlines are rushed, yes (fly high byron my beautiful controversial angel) but seasons one through four were just fine pacing wise. the climax for the shadow war was somewhat underwhelming but also i don’t think babylon 5 really is, genuinely, a kind of piece of media that needs an epic space battle. especially when all of the conflict and epic space battles you are shown, you’re shown the actual tragedy behind senseless death. “talking it out” is almost lame, but it also to me quietly told me a lot about the first ones in general as well.

if you had to remove one major character from the series, who would you choose?

i’m so sorry but if lennier had just gotten the na’toth treatment and disappeared somewhere in like season 2 or 3 and showed up as a ranger in season 5 i don’t think i would have noticed much. i still love lennier but lennier’s plotlines are such nothingburger little things and are usually wrapped up in things that involve delenn, during which i’m paying more attention to what delenn is doing in those situations.

what is an unpopular ship that you like?

AS PER MY RANT ABOUT LYTA nothing quite really beats being incredibly moved by g’kar and lyta’s final scenes in the show, going to see if anyone else ships them or if i just have goggles on because they’re two of my most favorites and just seeing…That. i also like lyta/byron. like i get why people may dislike either of those ships but also i feel like a lot of people make up or exaggerate the things that could possibly be problematic about the both of them. if i read another post comparing g’kar and lyta’s established dynamic with forced prostitution i’m going to snap. like please yall my girl has gone through so much shit can she not get laid on top of it all???? also to answer the “what does the fandom get wrong about your favorite” question again the idea that g’kar is willingly doing all of THAT and intentionally perpetuating an imbalanced dynamic after he has grown up in and been victimized by systemic and intrapersonal abuse his entire life is………hmmmmmm.

[gaslightgallows]

"I called your name last night. Three times." Delenn/Neroon (or possibly Delenn/Lennier)

4. I called your name last night. Three times. (Babylon 5, Delenn/Lennier)

There is a candle in Delenn’s hands, cupped between her fingers as gently as she had once held his face. As gently, and with as much steely resolve. “I called your name last night,” she says. She is speaking to him. She is focused on the candle, which is present, but she is speaking to him, who is not. “Three times.”

Lennier knows. He heard her. He was not there in the room where she called out his name, or in the city, or even on the planet. But he had heard her. She had called his name and he had heard her, as he always did, and he heard her now, as he would always hear her, in his soul.

His name on her lips is a prayer. It is a blessing. It is a burden. He bears them all, so that she will not have to. And she has called for him, so he will go. Yes, he will go. He will go to Delenn, after so long, at last.

Perhaps then, his name can rest, and so can she.

[conundrumoftime]

sometimes your ship gets an epic canon romance; sometimes you get to build your own from the canon “stop hugging me your husband is STANDING RIGHT THERE” pointed nod.

[delennier]

There is something so tender about this moment

[saavik2285]

Imagine Delenn’s and Lennier’s wedding

For @tallysgreatestfan

It was a beautiful morning on Minbar. The wedding preparations were about to begin and Lennier was looking in the mirror, trying to contain his nervousness as he got dressed by several Minbari of his religious caste, the Third Fane of Chudomo.

The rushing of the waterfall and church bells could be heard. The rebirth ceremony was about to begin which today would double as a wedding ceremony for Delenn and Lennier. Eight Monks were leading the way, symbolizing unity, everyone who was invited from Babylon 5 watched and participated in the ritual as they passed along.

And when the monks started chanting Valen’s words in Minbari (English translation: Will you follow me into fire? Into storm? Into darkness? Into death?) Delenn was walking down the aisle in her white bridal dress covered by a veil she saw Lennier waiting for her at the altar, wearing a golden robe. The monks would then pass by the couple on either side as the sacred vow would be spoken �� One of them had the most angelic voice.

Delenn and Lennier shared the drink from the same jar which reminded them of the time they had entered the Whisper Gallery. Delenn was trembling and Lennier was almost forgetting how to breathe as he took the final sip which would sanctify their union forever. Their feelings for one another had been clear since way back then. One of the monks made the sign of the cross in front of them as the rings were exchanged. They were now husband and wife. Lennier lifted her veil and looked tenderly at the love of his life, Delenn and kissed her. Everyone cheered.

[tallysgreatestfan-art]

Minvember Prompt: Chance

Thought one of these moments where they seem so close to kissing but then back away at the last second would be fitting. These moments never lead to them discussing and defining their relationship either, they just make it even more complicated. I'm sure this haunted both of them.

Not going to lie, I really struggled with this pallet.

[vickyjona]

Babylon 5 rewatch of the season two episode ‘Revelations’ - excellent and profound storyline about Delenn’s transformation and Sheridan’s grieving over his late wife Anna.

[tallysgreatestfan]