#does anyone remember that old theory about TWD

[shitty-eyepocalypse-domains]

a hunt domain that’s just a *very* intense playground game of tag

Add in some corruption so thay you're playing tag with the plague and this is just Pathologic lmao.

[koalas-koalas-everywhere]

Where did the idea that Merlin is bad at healing magic come from?

Ok, that was a clickbaity title, I know where it came from: that scene in the Crystal Cave where he can’t heal Arthur’s wound. Possibly, also his struggle to heal him from the poisoned arrow in The Coming of Arthur Part 1. However, although I understand 1) the desire to nerf him at least a bit and 2) the delicious irony of someone as good as Merlin and who would like to be gentle as much as he does being crap at healing magic but good at combat, I don’t think this is very accurate.

I mean, this belief is the farthest thing from baseless. I mentioned TCC, and I can’t explain why he’d be unable to heal Arthur other than lack of skill (beyond theorizing that the magic of the Cave was impeding him because he was supposed, destined, if you will, to ask for Taliesin’s help and agree to look at the crystal in exchange, which admittedly doesn’t have much support from canon, or Merlin’s general lack of magical  ability that caused him, for example to make a rose instead of a strawberry for Freya, although that was in the previous season). Then there’s TCoA, although that one’s a bit... complicated, for reasons I’l talk about in a minute, and, last but not least, there’s the Hollow Queen, where Merlin tries to heal himself but he can’t. Besides that, there are some instances when he didn’t try to heal people so we can extrapolate that he was unable, like when Mordred is hurt in The Beginning of the End, when Will and Freya are dying in The Moment of Truth and The Lady of the Lake* or when Arthur passes out in The Last Dragonlord. 

The one from TCoA is complicated, because as I said before, he struggles, and by the time the scene cuts off it seems like he failed, but when Arthur wakes up, he only seems to have problems with the wound itself, not the poison, and doesn’t feel the pain until he walks on it. Then, without a hint of the fever he had before, he walks all the way to Camelot, a day or more, until he can’t go on anymore, but Merlin tells Gaius the spell didn’t work, BUT then Gaius says the wound’s infected, not poisoned, which would be explained by the whole traipsing about with a wounded leg and no treatment, so... I’m not sure what to make of it. 

Then in THQ, there were the ameliorating circumstances of being... you know... dying from poison. It’s more a matter of power than healing skills (when he tries, his eyes flicker like cheap old lightbulbs when he tries to do magic). But we’ll count it.

So that makes it 5 times he would have liked to heal someone with magic but couldn’t due to what we can assume is a lack of skill (I’m not counting Mordred because I don’t think he’d dare to use magic in that case, since Morgana seemed to want to be involved and kept up to date in his treatment, proved by how she watched as he did it without magic), two of which are dubious because he seems to be at least partially successful or because there were extenuating circumstances.

Then there’s times where there were people to heal but the circumstances were... peculiar.

One was his father in The Last Dragonlord. He dies much more quickly than Will, not to mention Freya, which suggests an even worse wound than the one the woman who grew up with Druids, notable healers, said was too deep to heal. Merlin says he could save him, but Balinor cuts him off so he could give his last words, presumably because he, a man we also know possesses some healing skills, knew it was pointless. I really have to wonder if there was anything any ordinary sorcerer could have done (I mean, not to victim-blame, but I didn’t see Balinor trying to heal himself), that even Merlin himself pre-The Diamond of the Day could have done, so I’m reluctant to draw conclusions about his healing abilities from this.**

While he heals Gwen in With All My Heart, technically he does it not through any healing magic but by taking her to the Cauldron of Arianrhod and summoning the Triple Goddess, so it doesn’t help measure his skills either.

Additionally, (and here’s where I start to answer one of the most important questions in this post, which has remained unsaid until now, but which has underlined every single line to the moment: “what the fuck are you ranting about you big dumdum if all you’re going to do is agree that Merlin’s bad at healing?!” It’s about the refutation) there’s his healing of Morgana in TCC. This one’s also weird, because he does heal her, but he needed Kilgarrah’s help to do it. It’s possible that he only gave Merlin the spell, like he did with Sigan, but he has a strange sound effect in his voice when he casts it, so it could also be that he had some extra guidance from Kilgarrah to help him along, such as a power boost or an instinctual understanding of how to perform the spell. Like the last one, then, I don’t think this example gives us any reliable information on his healing skills.

But! It does start us off on the next part of this discussion, which is the times Merlin has successfully healed someone.

The earliest example of this is The Mark of Nimueh, where he heals Gwen’s father, Tom. He just sneaks in, puts a poultice under his pillow, casts the spell, sneaks out, and done! Man awake in seconds, cured by morning. Of course, success isn’t as interesting as failure (might be the reason why they continued this particular storyline by having Gwen accused of sorcery instead of just letting her live), but two things stand out about this healing. The first is that Merlin used a poultice for it, which will come up again later, so make a note of that. The second is that this happens before TCC, so it’s unlikely that Merlin just took that failure to heart and tried to improve. 

But, TCC is the next time since then that he makes an attempt at healing magic, which, whew, talk about a time gap! That’s two seasons, and at least 2 1/2 years! Make a note of this, too. The time after that is, at least, in the same season - TCoA, in which we’ve settled that Merlin seems to have partial success with Arthur’s wound. (“Yes, you’ve already said this before!” Just go with it.)

Next, there’s The Wicked Day. We know that he did the spell right because everything went to shit. Once more, he used aids for the spell, a potion and incense form sage.

The very next episode, Aithusa, without a clear idea of what they’ve been given, only that they’ve passed out and have difficulty breathing (he might have figured out what it was from the smell of the poultice that he found in the stew), he manages to save all four knights and Arthur from poisoning, this time only with an enchantment. 

Then he heals Gwen’s leg in The Hunter’s Heart. Once again, only a spell. Funnily enough, it’s the same wound he tried to heal in TCC, only in a different place.

Last but not least is the poison Gwen uses on Arthur in A Lesson in Vengeance. By the time Merlin has an opportunity to treat him, he’s moments away from death - Gaius says his heart’s nearly stopped, and Merlin himself doubts he has the power to heal him. No potions or herbs, although it’s interesting to note that he does motions similar to chest compressions.

So, to keep tally: his success rate when dealing with poisons and drugs is 100%, and it’s the same for times when he got to use aids such as potions and poultices. It also applies to all healing attempts not subject to extenuating circumstances (magical interference such as the Lamia’s spell or the blade being forged in a dragon’s breath, and when Merlin had to heal himself while he was dying) from TWD forward.

We can see him improve from TCC (season 3) to ALiV (season 5) - he actually makes significant improvement from TCC to TCoA, and from there to TWD and Aithusa. It seems like he learned from his experience in TCC and decided to make up for his lack of natural talent at healing magic by studying. And here’s where it gets really funny. Because we’ve established that there was a time, long before TCC, where he healed someone successfully, and that was Tom, in TMoN. If you’ll remember, around that time Merlin was much more likely to fail the first few (hundred) times he tried a spell, like the one to make that dog statue real and the one to enchant a weapon to fight the griffin. So, way back then, Merlin went, made a poultice, cast a spell and succeeded on his first try, when before (and after) that he’d have difficulties with new spells.

It... actually looks like he had a natural talent for healing magic. 

Okay, hang on! you might say. You spent the first half of this fucking novel talking about his healing goofs, don’t come at me with this bullshit now! you might say.

And here’s where you should pull out those notes I asked you to make. Because between TMoN and TCC there’s a world of difference.

To start off, in the first one he had preparation. He’d been able to look for and study an appropriate spell in his book shortly beforehand and, most importantly, he had a poultice. He’s had a perfect success rate when using those. Look at Dragoon - I’ve talked before about how hilarious it is that Merlin struggles to turn off a spell most have trouble achieving, let alone keeping up. In that first ep, Queen of Hearts, Merlin prepares a whole ass ritual to age up,*** but later needs a potion to go back to his own age. On the other hand, every time after that he just casts the spell and he has no trouble undoing it. While it’s conjecture, it’s a pretty solid theory to say that potions and the like, as I’ve been foreshadowing, function as aids when casting spells. They can be necessary, but sometimes they just give the sorcerer a boost. It follows, then, that any spell cast without them will be weaker, such as, say, the one in TCC.

But! He doesn’t use potions for almost any of the other times, either!

Well, that’s kind of tied into my next point: time.

As we’ve established, almost three years go by between TMoN and TCC, and Merlin doesn’t try to heal anyone in that time. He does, however develop his magic in other ways. By The Moment of Truth he can summon a tornado! By Le Morte D’Arthur he can cast the spell he so struggled over in Lancelot! He can summon a shield that can withstand dragon fire! Went against a Sidhe and a Pixie! He- okay, he got better at combat magic. You might see where I’m going with this.

But right then, he needed to heal Arthur! He’d done it before! But... he’d gone rusty. 

Honest to God. Yes, this is conjecture. No, I don’t have any proof other than what fits with canon. No, I don’t think it was intentional on the writers’ part.But in my mind and in my heart this is what happened. He was originally good or rather decent at healing magic, but after not using it and instead doing other kinds of magic for so long, during what were technically**** formative years for him as a sorcerer, that he actually lost the hang of it. To be fair, though, he makes up for it pretty quickly.

I didn’t think this through to the end before I wrote it, when I started I thought I’d just conclude there were more examples of Merlin being good at healing magic and that would be it, but putting it all together I’ve found a probably unintended pattern of Merlin having a natural talent for healing, but being forced to neglect it for the sake of combat magic. In conclusion, I’m sad.

*Scenes which I just watched to make this post and now I’m crying fucking hell what I do for stupid meta.

**I don’t apply the same logic to Freya because the length of time that must have passed between the scene in the tunnels and her death by the lake, not to mention the amount of jarring that she must have gone through in the trip, makes me think that there probably was a window of possibility there that they just didn’t have the resources to take advantage of. And. I mean. The strawberry scene. I’m just more likely to believe Merlin still had a way to go, magic-wise, but it’s also because of this that I’m not convinced that this is about him being bad at healing, specifically, as much as not being that skilled in magic overall.

*** I also rewatched the scene where he does it and ho-ho-ho-holy shit, his excitement at his idea is adorable.

****Because he was born with magic, he learned ways to use it way before going to Camelot, but this was a new stage of his studies that consisted f different things learned and different ways to learn them and different ways to apply them.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

TWD 10x08: The World Before - First Thoughts

Hello everyone! So what did you think of the episode. I totally loved it! Yes, it’s frustrating to get a cliffhanger for the MSF, but I, for one, am kind of used to it by now. I more or less count on that for every finale and MSF. If it doesn’t happen (because sometimes it doesn’t) then awesome. But when it does, I’m not surprised or upset by it. 

But onto happier things. This was one of those episodes that was just dripping with symbolism. (My favorite kind! So today I’ll talk about the broad, sweeping things and what most jumped out at me (and there was a LOT that did, even on first watch) and tomorrow I’ll do nitty-gritty details. Later in the week, I have some other things to post that I’m hoping will help everyone get through the hiatus, so stay tuned for those. Let’s dive in!

This is one episode that the spoilers definitely didn’t do justice to at all.

***As always, spoilers abound for 10x08 below. Don’t read until you’ve watched! You’ve been warned!***

Daryl’s Reaction to Carol and Lydia:

Depending on what you follow online, this might not mean much to you. But the groups I’m in follow spoilers and there was a lot of talk about how Daryl didn’t seem to care that much that Lydia was gone, or that Carol sort of lost her. And the spoilers only talked about a very tender scene between Daryl and Carol. 

Well, they did have a sweet scene together, but him not caring about Lydia and not getting after Carol was utterly untrue. (If you’ve watched the episode, you know this.) 

No, he doesn’t exactly scream in Carol’s face or anything (but Daryl wouldn’t do that anyway) but he does get after her. I really liked their interactions because I feel like Daryl might just have finally gotten through to Carol about her destructive behavior. She cries, and that’s where he hugs her. It was actually a really beautiful scene.

I will grant you that it doesn’t last long, as Carol still chases blindly after Alpha not long after, but still.

Music References:

Probably my favorite thing was the musical references. Luke names and later hums a specific piece of classical music: Rachmaninoff’s Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini. 

Even if the name doesn’t ring a bell for you, I can almost guarantee you’ve heard it before. HERE’s a video so you can listen. If you can’t access this one, just google it or search your YouTube. I promise it won’t be hard to find a way to listen to it. It’s one of the most famous pieces of classical music of all time.

It was featured in a film in the 80s called Somewhere in Time that had a cult following (one of my personal faves with Christopher Reeves and Jane Seymour).

So, my first instinct was to research the song itself. Like, does it have a coda? I knew I had some sheet music from this song on my shelf so I went and got it. Mine doesn’t have a coda, but mine is also only the 18th variation.

It’s important for everyone to understand what a variation is in classical music. A variation is basically just one part of the overall symphony. Any given symphony is divided into parts, or variations. Not unlike chapters of a book. Each one is part of the overall story, but different things happen in each chapter, right? Same with Variations. All part of the same symphony, and therefore all based around and repeating the same musical themes, but all slightly different as well.

So, any given variation may not have a coda, but we need to look at the symphony as a whole. (And I can back this idea up because in the episode, Luke finds a book in the library of this piece of music and on the cover it says something like “complete preludes for piano” on it. 

So, what I’m getting at is that the 24th variation IS a coda. I found this description of the 24th variation:

Variation 24: provides a massive capstone to the entire work.  The Dies Irae theme emerges heavily in brass and strings while piano and winds recall prominent features of the subject.  A brilliant coda reiterates fragments of the theme, compressing earlier ideas within a massive acceleration. Suddenly and surprisingly there is a drop to an unexpected soft dynamic and two cadential chords from the piano mark the ending.

Obviously that is very significant. They’re mentioning, talking about, humming, and showing us sheet music for a very famous symphony that has a coda. I think our TWD coda is about to roll back around, don’t you?

But I’m also wondering about the Somewhere in Time theme. I’m sure at least some of you aren’t familiar with it. It’s an American film with a cult following. But in terms of pop cinema culture, Paganini’s Rhapsody and this film are very intertwined. There are plenty of people who wouldn’t know that symphony at all EXCEPT for the film, so I have to wonder if they chose this piece of music, both for what it means by itself, and also for the Somewhere in Time reference. Notice the “time” element of that title.

The film is a ridiculously romantic time travel story. Its about two lovers who are basically separated by time, and have to travel through time to find one another and, you know, be together forever. Sound like Bethyl to you?

And because I was thinking about that, I noticed something else. When Aaron is talking to Gracie (there are a lot of interesting things in this scene, but I’ll go into most of them tomorrow in my Details post) he tells her a story about once visiting some old Native American ruins. He says he started to wonder about the lives and identities of the people who once lived there. People who had been “lost to time.” So there was a definite theme about people being lost in time in this episode. Very significant. Actually kind of gives me chills. In a good way. ;D

Gracie:

I felt like there was a large emphasis on Gracie in this episode. Aaron talked about her to Gamma last episode, in conjunction with bikes (which we’ve long associated with kidnapping and even “missing girl” stuff) so I still feel like Gracie might be taken.

Here, when Aaron learned about Dante killing Siddiq, he kind of had a meltdown, saying he should have seen it and Dante had been part of the community for months and had even treated Gracie. I don’t think we should read into that literally. I don’t think Dante did anything to Gracie or anything. But I feel like she’s being associated with the whole Siddiq/Dante situation.

And of course we had the part where he sat with her and quizzed her on the license plates. So I feel like they’re setting up something with Gracie here, and I’ve said before that I can see something along the lines of Gracie being taken/kidnapped and Aaron going to find her, and that somehow leading to Beth. So I guess I’m just seeing this as confirmation that something with Gracie is in the works, even if the rest is just conjecture right now.

Bear Trap:

This probably qualifies as more of a Detail than anything else, but it was too huge not to share. After they cross the border, Carol almost steps in a bear trap. Daryl sees it in time and stops her saying, “You could have lost a foot.” Lost shoe/foot symbolism anyone?

I’ve come to believe that the lost shoe/foot theme is directly tied to the death fake out. I won’t say much more than that except that only Daryl and Carol are in this scene. So, it might point to Ezekiel’s coming death fake out, which I think is close, or to the one Daryl is involved in, which would just be another way to hint at Beth being close.

But it’s more than that. MUCH more. Some of you may remember that WAY back, a long time ago (like during the 5b/6a time period) some of the prominent TD-ers of the time dug up some information about a Beth figurine/toy that was set to be released. They were going to release one that included a bear trap prop in the package.

Now, that figuring was never actually released. People in our fandom actually contacted the toy company to ask about it and were told that it was planned for release at one point, but for unspecified reasons, the company (that would be AMC) changed their minds and scrapped the project.

We still don’t know exactly why, though I suspect it was because TD was so active back then and they simply decided they didn’t need to give us this hint.

Lots of theories about the large bear trap circulated back then. People even wondered if it would have something to do with Beth and Shiva, which it didn’t. But it’s weird, right? I mean, why would tptb release a figurine of Beth with such a specific, large prop that never showed up in her story line and had absolutely no bearing on anything in her—or any other character’s—story?

Well, obviously TD took it as something symbolic/a clue to how she might return. Now, we have an actual bear trap as part of a sequence connected to the Whisperers, when many of suspect we may be as little as two episodes out from her return. Significant enough for you? I can’t stress how huge this little bear trap detail is.

But I can even take it further than that.

In terms of what specifically happens in this episode, it was a foreshadow of the ending. So Carol almost stepped in the bear trap, but just barely avoided catastrophe. Daryl yelled stop, stop and managed to pull her back before she stepped in the trap, triggering it, which would have been very painful. Near the end of the episode, Carol chases after Alpha. Daryl yells, stop, stop! But she doesn’t listen and what happens? They trigger the trap.

So, some pretty basic foreshadowing for the end of the episode. But the idea of that also has my head spinning, because I can’t help but compare it to other things.

First, it’s the bear trap being associated with Beth again. Because, in my head, them triggering this trap, and it being symbolized beforehand by the bear trap, is just another way of saying that something about them triggering this trap Alpha set for them will lead to Beth in some way.

But I’m also thinking about Alone. With this symbolism in mind, you could argue that Beth stepping on the small game trap at the beginning of Alone foreshadowed her getting caught in the Grady trap at the end of that episode. The sequence is similar. When the metal, animal trap is scene early on, catastrophe is largely avoided.

(Yes, Beth steps in the trap, but it only results in a hurt ankle. Nothing to worry about. They even emphasize that it’s not broken. If Carol had stepped on hers, it would have snapped her leg like a twig, and they needed her to be able to run later, so they couldn’t do a complete parallel. But again, catastrophe largely avoided.)

Then, near the end of the episode, a MUCH bigger trap is triggered. And this time, catastrophe can’t be avoided. Daryl couldn’t stop the Grady cops from taking Beth, though he tried. And he couldn’t stop the group in this episode—including himself—from falling into the pit, though he tried.

In fact, you could argue that because the rest of the group ran out ahead of him after Carol, while he stayed behind to fight walkers, this was a huge parallel to the end of Alone. Think about it. He stays behind to lead the walkers away while she runs out ahead of him. We see him running through the yard of the funeral home in the direction she went, looking for her, but she’s already fallen into the Grady trap by then.

Here, the rest of the group runs out ahead of Daryl, after Carol. He takes care of the walkers and then runs in the direction they all went, looking for them. But they’d already fallen into the pit by the time he got there. See why this is so huge?

(P.S. On TTD, they pointed out that we see this from Daryl’s POV, which was true of Alone as well. We saw everything through his eyes, and didn’t see what happened with Beth. Only what he saw.)

The dark pit they fall into reminded me of two things: 1) the cave Gamma’s sister went into with Alpha before emerging into the light, which I pegged right away as a Beth-parallel. 2) the darkness-to-light theme in general. We saw it around Beth a lot, but around others as well. So if this is the group going into the darkness, then when they re-emerge into the light, maybe that’s when Beth will show up? (a.k.a. episode 10?) Just a thought.

But for Beth, Grady = falling into a dark pit. In this shot, we see her walking into a dark corridor/tunnel with light at the other end. And this is RIGHT before she’s shot. Which I always saw as her heading into the darkness, but it foreshadows that she’ll come through into the light (survive). And now we’re seeing a replay of this in 10x08.

Virgil:

Okay, let’s talk Virgil. For the record, I don’t think he’s linked to Connie and Kelly. That was a fun theory and I was hoping for it as much as the next person, but I didn’t get that feeling while watching the episode. First off, it’s not that he’s been separated from his family and looking for them, which is what early reports of him suggested. Rather, it’s that he left his community on some kind of supply mission and he’s trying to get back to them. So, he knows exactly where they are. He’s just trying to get home.

That’s right. HOME theme. They emphasize several times that he’s going home. He says it, Michonne repeats it, etc. And remember that finding one’s way home is associated with the North Star/Sirius symbolism, thanks to Carl saying that to Judith in S6.

And where Virgil’s home is, is AWESOME! Pay attention to this TD-ers, because it’s SUPER significant. He tells Michonne that he lives in a compound on Bloodsworth Island in Tangiers sound. I had to sit back and let that sink in. We’ve always said Beth will return by water. If she’s on an island, that kind of makes every water reference we’ve ever seen around her make sense. The picture of the ship behind Hershel in 4a (Smooth seas don’t make for good sailors), the teddy bear that washed up on the beach in 7x06, etc.

I had to do some research on this place because I wasn’t familiar with it. Both Bloodsworth Island and Tangier sound are in the Chesapeake Bay area. The sound is bordered by parts of Virginia and Maryland. My point? This really isn’t very far away. Michonne mentions a 2-day trip to get there.

But given all the symbolism around this, and that this may be where Beth is…well, suddenly it seems like she really may not be very far from D.C. at all.

And then there’s the idea of the naval base. Virgil says it’s hard to find and fortified. Remember what I said about the helicopter people: that they’re probably ex-military, which is why they’re so good at security and keeping people from leaving their group once they’ve entered. It would also make sense why they’ve learned to purify water, since they’re on an island surrounded on all sides by salt water.

So what I’m saying is that this plays very well into everything we’ve been thinking thus far. We already know Danai is going to the Rick Grimes films, so to say she’ll run into Rick is a foregone conclusion. But I’ve said before that I think Rick and Beth are in the same place, or at least within the same organization.

I want to point out that Michonne quotes Rick’s line to Virgil: My mercy prevailed over my wrath. Now, on the one hand, that’s just a very obvious way of foreshadowing that when she leaves, she’ll be finding Rick. His storyline is about to come back into play, and Virgil will be part of that. We already knew that because of outside-the-show stuff. But a good example of foreshadowing at work, and we’ve seen plenty of similar stuff with Beth.

But that line is also tied to Carl’s death. I won’t go into all of this today (I will in a later post) but this is also helping me draw a line between Carl’s death and how Beth will return. I know that’s kind of a tease, but it’s also a whole other rabbit hole, so I’ll give it its own post later.

Wolves and Whisperers:

I said I’d talk more about the Aaron/Gracie scene tomorrow, and I will, but I want to point out one more thing that jumped out at me. First, when Daryl/Carol/Father Gabriel were interrogating Dante, they emphasized that Dante and the Whisperers believed they were setting people free. First Dante said it, claiming that not caring about yourself or others makes you free, and then Carol repeated it for emphasis.

Then there was the Native American story Aaron told Gracie. Both of those things are major callbacks to the wolves. One of the wolves told Morgan that what they did would set people free. And then Crazy Wolf Dude told Morgan in 5x16 that their beliefs were remnants of the beliefs of Native Americans who first settled the area, who believed they were wolves.

And I’ve said before that the wolves were a forerunner and symbolic parallel of the Whisperers, so this is nothing new, but I wanted to point out the strong resemblance in beliefs. And is it literal? I don’t know. I could see it going either way. Maybe at some point we’ll learn that the wolves were an outgrowth of the Whisperers or something.

But it really could just be a symbolic parallel as well. Even if it is just that, it would explain why there was so much Beth symbolism around the wolves and lend credence to the idea of her returning during the Whisperer arc. Just saying.

I also think Virgil has some parallels to Morgan. Again, I’ll talk about this more tomorrow, but in 3x12, Clear, when Rick/Michonne/Carl ran into Morgan, they were looking for weapons to help them fight a war against the Governor. When they found Morgan, he came across as somewhat crazy, and they had to tie him up until they were sure he wouldn’t kill them.

Similar stuff with Virgil. He comes across as a threat and is taken prisoner at first. In the end, Michonne goes with him to find weapons to help them in their war against Alpha. So there are some definite parallels there.

Okay, these were the biggest things. I’ll stop there because this is already long. Plenty more to cover, but I’ll do it tomorrow in the Details post. How did YOU like the episode?

Oh wait! One more thing. Hehe. Can I just point out the title. The World Before. I have to ask, the world before what? Something big is about to change, y’all. ;D

[wolfwhiteflowers]

s9 filming spoilers and speculations..... TWD RANTS

Timejump-capital /twd parade pics and Caryl-the skybound thing, & other-richonne. (this post is meh and confusing) 

*twd spoilers, comic spoilers, anti C/E

k so writing this long weird speculation and thoughts-post. I wanna like move on from the show. Like as usual it’s on hiatus ykno? But the s8 finale messed me up so much. And I wonder a lot about Carol and the ships. Unanswered questions. I guess I’m saying I’m gonna rant a lot...or I go big in this post. 

Now we’re getting filming spoilers. bits and pieces but s9 premiere is a big deal like because of the time jump. The time jump changes the story a lot right? So... just from spoilery things, I realized, it’s hitting me a lot that it’s so 50/50 on me for if I still like the show or not (with timejump, ships, different showrunner/writings, and who knows how TWD ends). 

I really don’t like how 50/50 that is. So shock value way? Anyways, this hiatus I guess is gonna be a really big roller coaster ride. :\ I feel more doubtful than hopeful about s9. ....I just want Carol to be in character (the way i see it) and I want Carol (anyone) to interact with team family more. Idk if I can trust the writers during the hiatus with some bits of spoilers because some arcs start off frustrating and end well. It’s like I also have to wait till they film the finale to know if I wanna watch s9. or it’s like I wait till s10 for an arc to end. Idk I’m bummed that it’s at that point for me to decide to quit or not. sigh stories.

Yeah so this reminds me of s8, where the biggest change to the show happened with Carl’s death for me and the fandom. So I(and like most people too apparently...show is still going) keep watching TWD because Carl’s death doesn’t bother me that much, I feel the writing is still fine, and I see it as Rick’s show. So ..idk what im saying. I just think if they screw up Carol’s character and her interactions, then I feel it’s pointless to keep watching the show. I want charactery bonds, interesting arcs, and parallels. I know TWD can still be fine, but s8′s bad finale ep made me doubtful on the writing (or editing...there were good deleted scenes in s8 finale). 

Time jump

Wow those pics of the cast at the capital and on horses. “twd parade” The pics also tells a lot or so what 9x01 will be like/time jump. It’s overwhelming. It got me excited and then I worry the show will suck and mess up my faves.

The time jump in 9x01 looked like not like Carl’s dream/5 years(?) where Rick had a cane, white hair, 6 yo Judy, and Negan gardening with TF. This time jump in s9 so far looked like one year went by. Also looked like the characters got one thing changed on them. Rick-short hair, Carol-hat, Jesus-manbun, etc.so it’s like it’s not that much of a time jump.

Oh man, I can’t help it but I want to compare TWD and The 100. (They’re different ofc, one’s pace is fast and more violent/survival-like. It’s also like it’s ok to watch more than one show even tho one is better or whatever. It’s frustrating tho T100 have way more interactions/girl power.) Both current survival-shows. Right now, The 100 just had a six year time jump(I think) and TWD in s9 there will be a time jump too. So The 100′s current season, I really liked how they did set up the time jump and informing us how the characters are doing and see the changes in them and their looks. Even their previous season, there was a good understanding foreshadowing to the time jump plot. ...TWD didn’t, I mean Idk why, it’s like easy writing they should’ve done..to keep fans interested to what’s next on the show. I noticed in The 100, is that there were flashbacks and bottled/centered episodes. It’s also quick but partly because The 100 have a short season too and the writers want to focus on the upcoming different plot.

Anyways, so now that I think it’s been like a year later in TWD story. My theories are like everywhere and changed. I’m also like being an annoying comic fan..wants to be exact way but it’s a show and they can remix stuff. Whatever, we all want good stories! It’s kinda following the comics like usual. ok. Time jump and whisperers are coming. Idk why, I’m really excited for ‘old man Rick’ hair cut and horses, when I’m like wtf Rick’s curls tho. lol  Also just..9 seasons...and do I still like the show and will I like what’s next based on comics? (I actually figured AOW in s7-8 would be boring or come off different in the show. It’s all battle scenes and comics goes quicker..Idk I figured it would be boring but I think the war story on show and comics did alright. It wasn’t like a boring action movie that I see most of the time with action movies :P So I think this arc in s9 people will like this. More charactery stuff, well based from the comics. But we don’t have Carl and Maggie(for certain)?... Yeah usual tv flaws.)

So, I think it’s just one year later and that’s it. Also, I don’t mind seeing flashbacks and bottle episodes, as long it’s done well and entertaining. I think in s9 bottle episodes are needed.

kids

So since I think it’s one year later, then we probably get the same Judith girl in s8, as 3 yo?, Hershel Jr as -months old, and I don’t think there will be a Richonne-baby...unless Michonne got pregnant right after the war and Hershel Jr and Richonne-baby are about the same age. 

Skybound mailbag/Caryl/ E&Z

I read some speculations and from C/E shippers, just to get more info on Carol. (I gotta stop that. I’ll know about Carol when I do and they’re really anti-Caryl. It’s annoying. ugh ship wars.) I realized from the spoilery pics and speculations, I just don’t want Carol with anyone or C/E in s9/s9A. I just want to know what’s up with Carol again. Unless Carol being with E is a very minor thing. Like in The 100 show where two times fans suddenly learn Bellamy has a gf. There was a time jump and the relationship’s build up and being canon was all offscreen. The relationship didn’t last or some other thing important was gonna happen. I just want to know what’s Carol’s thinking and feeling. Idk I just feel if C/E happens,I just feel like Idk Carol anymore. :\ Idk what Caryl is anymore. They’re best friends (crushes) right...and still is? I really don’t like in s8 finale where Carol didn’t talk to any TF member/Daryl about why she wants to stay at Kingdom. Just any moment to see TF knows too. Also, Idk if Daryl is staying at ASZ or Hilltop and does Rick knows Daryl doesn’t agree with his decision on Negan.

(lil post on twdzone. carol/and show stuff)

‘If C/E happens like a - a surprise ship in s9. I find it bad writing because they didn't set it up in s8 or should add more romantic tone in it and obviously put a C/E moment in the finale. But they didn't. So..bad writing. Or just idk maybe it's for plot reasons (E’s death). Maybe there will be a love triangle? It makes Carol out of character or strange for me. Who/What does Carol care about and why? Idk.

 It’s also something that TWD has to do too...from s8 finale and time jump/season premiere it means s9 premier ep gotta be a very well written episode to explain to everything and well reasons. But man...the s8 finale was so wacky and frustrating. It made me lose hope on the writers. I did like s8B but wow finale wtf. And finale is important ep of the seasons..and also it was before the big time jump. sigh. //It reminds me something, it’s kind of TWD’s style or Gimple’s, that premieres are more important than finales. So I hope s9 premiere is good. So yeah if Caryl is just gonna be friends and also just gonna like nod at each other like they don't have that special (continuity) bond anymore. Then that show is over for me. It's also not Caryl’s connections too, I miss Carol’s connections with Team family so much! OMG just looking at Carol and Rick edits, I just sigh.. I know some don't like their relationship. But I like theirs and they got that history, interesting dynamic. I don't wanna see Carol and Rick like they're just acquaintances now. (um like remember their history and trying to save Sophia. etc.) I want Carol or anyone to interact and be team family. The show gotta focus on their main characters and interact them. Too many side characters...too many separations.’

Other

Once I thought about this idea, I’m like gaaah I really hope TWD does this. I really want and hope Rick have these moments to remember Carl by and to do it every season. I really like this idea I have where Rick could write a letter to Carl or talk to Carl’s grave in every season premier/finale. It’s something that merge the old TWD and the new TWD story...even though it’s Rick’s show, it’s still a father and son show.

Richonne!

I have some speculations and thoughts. I just wanna say that I hope Richonne in s9 is more interesting than comic R&A in the comics in the point of the story. Just be like on the show, power couple and all. I really like how in s8 finale, they were like co-leaders. Together. Idk I’m curious how Richonne will go in s9 and on. It’s seems real different than in the comics/R&A are doing. 

So, in the comics, Andrea was like focusing on protecting Carl and co-leading etc. and then she dies at the end of Whisperer war. I find her death and end of her journey boring and disappointing. So Idk, I hope Michonne’s journey is interesting and I have no clue how this comic-Michonne and/or Andrea remix thing works out since Carol is using comic-Michonne’s too. %) Anyways, so I don’t think Michonne will die like comic-Andrea because tv-Carl got the death. After the Andrea’s death, Rick bonded and grieved with Mikey (Carl’s friend) while Carl is at Hilltop adulting. From the comics, I felt like Kirkman wished he had Rick and Andrea to have a child together but he didn’t so he got Mikey more into the story and w/Rick. So I’m like maybe we will get a Richonne-baby? But, then I also thought maybe Judith is like comic-Mikey. Grimes 2.0 grieving and missing Carl. So yeah.. I’m suspecting Richonne won’t have child together or at least in s9. From the twd parade pics, Idk, I don’t think there will be a baby. I really hope they do someday though.

 Another thing is, I really want Judith to call Michonne “Mom” and Rick to point out to people that Michonne is his wife.  

So yeah, roller coaster.

[norman-reedus-gossip-mod]

Anon: So DK started following HC on IG again lol now everyone is assuming it's because she's with NR and that's why now that's funny what is wrong with people. I wonder how long she will follow her this time until she gets pissed at something HC posts that involves her son and NR

Anon: Regarding Norman saying he was going home; I hate to piss in your beer here (believe me, I truly hope Norman is going home to poor EITD not staying in Germany with miss attention leech) but I seriously doubt that he would just tell a fan "Oh yeah, I going to Germany to see DK. Promise not to tell anyone?" IF he was heading there ... just saying --mod-- Fair point.

Anon: Another mod never posted my ask&I thought it was unfair. People were saying "Norman needs to come clean now" but what if he ALREADY HAS? What if the denial WAS truth/coming clean? They're JUST FRIENDS. All he's done is driven her around in car/on his bike. What did he do to make people assume HE lied here? Everything that's happened came from her. She trolls/follows him in the middle of his Eurotour/calls paps. What if he already did tell the truth?


Anon: 
The other blog is saying DK & NR a couple did I miss something? Where do they get these assumptions from just because she hopped on a plane and went to Spain making herself look more pathetic then she already does or is it because she started following HC on IG so all the sudden their a couple or because her and NR liked the same post made by HC this fandom is straight up crazy I sure hope people don't go by my IG posts or likes 😂


--mod-- If you did then I did. At this point there's only been one official statement and that was a denial from N. everything else is speculation and assumptions 




Anon: 
Glad to see NR went back to NY maybe they are just friends after all I guess the waiting game begins. I did see he followed HC again and liked the same pic DK did I guess DK is trying to make it look like her and HC are friends which I find so strange she's such a teenage girl she needs to really grow up but I remember in JJ fandom she would pull the same crap so this is old behavior for her I sure hope NR distances himself from her




Anon: 
Mod I totally respect Norman's right to a private life but w/ all the Dk crap, how can he not see that IF true he's w/ her, SHE is the one bringing all attention to him on purpose? She's the one who trolled his fandom on IG for abt 8 months/liked IG posts abt "hiding" a relationship/turned up in Barc. when he is in the center of twd promo w/ cameras everywhere/alerted paps she was leaving NY &even a pic of her w/ FB (of all ppl) in PARIS. IF true he COULD have privacy but not w/ what she's doing





Anon: 
Just to calm some down for the moment. I'm pretty sure DK is not back in the US. I think she's in Paris, the time she posted on IG was weird for her if she was in America. She never posts this time when there. Also she tagged a woman who lives in France and is her friend. So Norman did not travel to Germany to see her nor did he go back to the US to see her. Not saying they aren't together but not all his moves are for her. Do you still need any whiskey or bum touches, Mod? Willing to share 💁
--mod-- I don't tend to share supplies buuuuut maybe if you flirt with me 


Anon: Who wants to take bets on how long it will take NR and DK to be spotted together in NYC? 😉
--mod-- Jokes are fun. 🤣🤣🤣🤣



Anon: hey mod! I tried to ask in the modblog but it wouldn't let me. So what do you think of the whole clusterfuck now? do you think he would seriously risk his reputation and or fans for a fling-thing with D.K.? Just seems so out of character for him idk. You think him denying it meant something? his pr must be so pissed with how it makes him look. I think i'm the only one who believes him and that they met as friends. Is it okay to ask you what do you think of it all? --mod-- I still do think his denial meant something. Sure you can ask. My personal opinion is that I have no opinion on it because I don't care.  I haven't liked her since I saw first hand how she treats people, that has no barring on my fan-ness(it's a word 🤗) for N. I'm pretty good at ignoring things I don't like.

Anon: I think Norman's PR got in touch with HC now to try to smooth things over and keep appearances for anyone watching by having her follow and like DK on IG. Def. Not a coincidence with that Spain fiasco. But what's really going on. I still don't understand any of it. Surely he wouldn't lie with his Reps officially like he did and then be shown to look like a lying sneaking asshole 2 weeks later? Somethins weird --mod-- I doubt his PR people got in touch with HC. That women does her own thing. Only time will tell what's going on

Anon: Let more theories begin HC has started following DK on IG I have to say I do find it strange that if DK & NR are at odds and not getting along that HC would follow maybe she does approve of them and it's only a matter of time now that they do come out as a couple since I think HC approval would be one that NR would want along with his friends so time will tell how this all plays out --mod-- But why would, if they were a couple, need or want her permission.

Anon: Mod can I submit something about the dk mess for the Modblog? I just don't think Norman would make everyone who works for him look Untrustworthy and unreliable if he were lying with the PR statement. It makes it look so shady if he issued a release like that and then he is caught sneaking around with her after. Everything feels so staged right now. They haven't been seen together for a year but now twice in the past 2 weeks paparrazi "catch" them? This feels like Publicity

Anon: You think Norman is gonna come forward and making his and DK's relationship public at Jiimmy Fallon's next Friday? --mod-- Nope not even close.

Anon: At this point do u think they are fwb, couple or just friend. TBH how u think about Norman and dk 's behavior in Spain. No sugar coat pls. We want Norman happy also we must be honest to our opinion and our moral😢. And do u think they hide again somewhere over the shit rainbow?mod. TBH --mod-- I've always said they are a minimum friends. I don't know since I don't care about it it's hard for me to make an opinion other than meh... but everything I've seen, it doesn't come across as relationship of the bf/gf kind. He's never really had a problem being seen with the women he with. Whatever it is, it's weird and they need to figure it out.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Ties Between Eugene and Bethyl’s “I Never” Game

So, as with most of this Beth/Eugene stuff, I owe this theory and the legwork for it to @wdway​ who first caught it and came up with all the examples.

She particularly liked the scenes between Eugene and Stephanie over the radio. She especially liked when Eugene sang because Josh has a nice voice. I concur. I’ll let her tell you the rest in her own words.

@wdway:

While listening to Eugene singing, the light bulb went off and I thought, "could we connect his singing to the “I Never” game between Daryl and Beth, where Daryl says, "I never sang out in a big group like everything was fun, like everything with a big game?" Eugene was singing to Stephanie, but he was on an open mike which could be heard by numerous people, a big crowd.

After thinking about it and going back and researching not only that episode but others, I believe Eugene and Stephanie are a replay of several scenes of Beth and Daryl from both Still and Alone.

At the start of the episode, the first scene after the credits is Eugene sitting on the floor talking to Stephanie about records and she's mentioning 3 stars. He's telling her that he cannot find the record he apparently had been talking about and her response is, "if you want me to hear it, you'll have to sing it. Just belt it out baby." Eugene: "I will not. Only a fool would attempt such a song without string accompaniment."

Eugene sitting on the floor having a conversation with Stephanie is a throwback to Daryl and Beth on the porch of the shack. Stephanie asked him to sing for her. Daryl in Alone: “Why don’t you play some more. Keep singing."

To refresh your memory, the reason Eugene sings for Stephanie is that earlier, he had made promise of keeping their conversations private and we see that they become very emotionally intimate, similar to the intimate bearing of souls conversation between Beth and Daryl on the porch.

Rosita’s innocent response to Stephanie's radio signal, which in essence took Stephanie away from Eugene, was that she was "just gone." When Eugene realized what happened, he's yells for her, "Stephanie, Stephanie" just as Daryl called out "Beth, Beth" when the car carried her away.

After realizing the connection with the Eugene/Stephanie dialogue and Still and Alone, I started thinking about the “I Never” game. At this point, I can't connect all the I Nevers to Eugene but I can connect several and that's what I’ll do next.

Not all of these are literal connections. They're more like themed ties between Eugene and these questions.

Beth: “I never shot a crossbow.” Beth said this was a practice question, so I'll move on.

Daryl: “I've never been out of Georgia.” We know Eugene has crossed many states to get to DC.

Beth: “I've never been drunk and did something I regretted.” In s8 Eugene was taken to the Sanctuary to make bullets for Negan and he became a part of Negan’s team. He eventually started drinking to escape his regret of helping.

Daryl: “I’ve never been on vacation.” Eugene told Stephanie he went to the 1995 Train Expo in Strasburg, Pennsylvania.

Beth: “I’ve never been in jail.” This was one of my light bulb moments. Beth tells Daryl she doesn't mean the prison, so that means that it's a temporary holding place where you are not free to leave. My first thought was the Sanctuary for Eugene, which is true to a degree, but that didn't seem quite right. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks.

In s4e16 Us, and s5e1 No Sanctuary, Eugene and TF were held in a boxcar at Terminus. We also saw Eugene and co. held in a boxcars in s10e20, Splinter. Remember the shot of Eugene when he first met Abraham in Texas and we saw behind him the railroad sign with a water tower in the distance? 

In season 4&5, all but Beth follow the railroad tracks at some point. In s6e14 Twice As Far, Eugene was part of the shootout where Denise was killed on the railroad tracks and Daryl, Abe and Rosita had to carry Eugene back to AZ. It's hard for me to believe this theme and Eugene's love for trains as a kid is just a coincidence.

Denise lying on the tracks dead from an arrow shot through her eye. So many Beth symbols in that episode.

The next I Never I'm going to do my explanation on leads to things that are happening in the storyline right now. The thing is that gave me pause because I know for a fact that there wasn't a comic-book reference for it when the episode Still aired. I had to think about how could my explanation of this clue be true if it didn't exist in the comic when the writers wrote Still? 

I believe that many of the eggs/clues that were left in the early seasons were not completely planned out in the storyline at that time, in other words they manipulated the clues we have found in recent seasons in order to fit (maybe not literally) but close enough. In the case that I'm about to talk about I could easily see Gimple simply asking if Kirkman would include a color on a female character in his comic book and I could see Kirkman doing that because he's a realist and when TWD TV series does well Kirkland gets richer.

I also want to emphasize that something I believe I mentioned from the beginning is that my purpose in this Eugene Theory is to see if I could connect Eugene to Beth and ultimately if Eugene's storyline could hopefully lead to her.

Daryl: “I never ate frozen yogurt. In s10e6 Bond, Eugene tells Stephanie that when he was at the railroad Expo in Pennsylvania, he had black raspberry ice cream. Yogurt/ice cream, close enough. Ice cream is one of @frangipanilove​’s cold symbols, but the question is, what’s the significance of black raspberry?

Get comfortable because I'm about to take you on a journey. My first thought was simply the color black and raspberry was probably red or Oh Yeah! hot pink! I was very pleased with how this ties together with Beth.

I kept thinking about the word raspberry and something about it made me want to connect it to music. That's when the second ton of bricks landed on me, haha. A song from the 80s, Raspberry Beret by Prince and Revolution. I mean really, how could this not be purposely connected since it was written by someone known as Prince and in this season there has been a character introduced named Princess, that wears hot pink! And has become a part of Eugene's group that has another member that is known as the King!

Then I looked up the lyrics and that became the triple cherry on top. Words like five and dime (5, 10), back of my bike, farm, rain, barn, thunder, lightning and the best line for a tie to Daryl and Beth, "where have all the raspberry women gone?" This song was written in the 80s so that's why I explained at above about them planting clues and then writing the episodes to include them.

(Check out the lyrics to Raspberry Beret HERE.)

Another thing I want to point out, is that a Raspberry Beret is literally a piece of clothing of that hot pink.

Next, I'm going to group two of the I Nevers together. They’re somewhat related in my mind.

Daryl: “I never had a pet pony.”

Also Daryl: “I never got nothing from Santa Clause.” This is angry Daryl playing the game after he's peed in the corner showing what a nothing, nobody, worthless redneck that he thinks he is. Or more likely, how he believes Beth views him. I think all the next few questions are very insightful into his childhood and his hurt and anger at the difference that he perceives their different upbringings.

It's not actually about whether or not she had her own pony or the number of presents that Santa brought her. It's more that she had parents that allowed her a childhood to believe there was a Santa. She had a family that loved her and was always there for her. Daryl didn't.

In the episode Bond, Eugene told Stephanie about how he loved locomotives when he was younger and his parents bought tickets to the Train Expo. They went to a ice cream shop and had black raspberry ice cream. It was, I'm sure, a lovely memory from that vacation. This shows us that his childhood, though different from Beth's (no mention of a pony) was very much the same. He had loving parents as he grew up. I think his hopes are that Stephanie could possibly like him as he is, with his strange way of expressing himself, and not really fitting in with people around him. That he wouldn't feel like an outsider when he's with her. In her he possibly has found his kindred spirit.

That is exactly what TD saw between Daryl and Beth in Still and Alone and Daryl reuniting with Beth would ultimately be the best present from Santa.

Daryl: “I never relied on anyone for protection before. I never rely on anyone for anything.”

That statement is totally untrue with Eugene's situation. He sought out Abraham, Rosita and others to protect him because he did not feel and in truth was not able to protect himself. We see the gradual change in him through the seasons and at one point, he even tells Abraham he can protect himself. That Abraham had done his job well. And after the time jump, we really have seen a difference in Eugene. A part of him will always be that old Eugene, but he has overcome so much and is an independent person in his own way.

Beth was never what I would call a scaredy-cat. It was more an issue about actual skills. Being an apprentice to Daryl Dixon is like having master's degree in how to survive the odds. When we saw her at Grady, she had just come into herself. Not only did she have the guts and the know-how to do what she needed to do to protect herself, she knew that she was strong and self-reliant.

Daryl: “I never cut my wrists for attention.”

This is Daryl being an a-hole. Notice he doesn't say ‘tried to commit suicide.’ He simply says ‘cutting the wrist for attention.’ I think he worded it that way because he's such a good judge of character, he knew that Beth really didn't want to kill herself. She wanted to escape her situation. A totally different thing. I think he understood that because so very often he wanted to escape his situation also.

We never saw Eugene doing any cutting of wrists. The closest he came in his own escape from his situation at the Sanctuary was in the form of drinking so much that he wouldn't care what was happening. But I want to note that he was capable of knowing exactly how to end a life by making the pill for Sasha. She couldn't live with the thought of Negan using her as a tool between him and the people she loved. I do not consider the act of her taking that pill as suicide. She didn't take her life, she sacrificed herself. Either way, she's no longer alive, but one is a selfish act and the other is a noble one.

So there you go!

@twdmusicboxmystery:

Yay! Aren’t those great. WAAAYYY too many parallels for this to be a coincidence. I love all of these. Thoughts?